Transcript: Do Canadian Politician Have Enough Power? | Oct 23, 2020

Nam sits in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses, a black blazer over an indigo shirt, and a golden pendant necklace.

A wall screen behind her reads "The week in review."

Nam says THE AGENDA THIS WEEK LEARNED ABOUT THE OPIOID CRISIS IN NORTHERN ONTARIO; SPOKE TO THE NEW YORK TIMES'S NICHOLAS KRISTOF ABOUT THE DECLINE OF THE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS; HEARD FROM COLUMNIST BARBARA AMIEL ON HER TELL-ALL MEMOIR; AND ASSESSED HAMILTON'S EFFORTS TO CONNECT URBAN RENEWAL WHILE FIGHTING CLIMATE CHANGE. THE AGENDA'S WEEK IN REVIEW BEGINS ASKING WHETHER WE REALLY NEED POLITICIANS ANYMORE.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

In a clip from a previous edition of The Agenda, Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair.

A caption on screen reads "What future for the people's power? Canadians want a better democracy."

Steve says CANADIANS WERE ASKED WHAT THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS STATEMENT: "ELECTED OFFICIALS CARE ABOUT WHAT ORDINARY PEOPLE THINK." ONLY 24 percent OF PEOPLE SURVEYED AGREED WITH THAT STATEMENT. 59 percent DID NOT. ALMOST 60 percent OF PEOPLE SURVEYED PRE-COVID THOUGHT OUR DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM DOES NOT REPRESENT THEM WELL. 60 percent. VASS, START US OFF. ARE PEOPLE RIGHT TO THINK THAT WAY?

The caption changes to "Vass Bednar. Public Policy Consultant."

Vass is in her thirties, with brown hair in a ponytail. She's wearing glasses, a black blazer and a black sweater.

She says I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT AND THEY'RE WRONG AT THE SAME TIME, BECAUSE THE PRIMARY TECHNOLOGY THAT WE USE TO FIND OUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK OR HOW THEY FEEL IS POLLING, AND IT'S VERY IMPERSONAL, RIGHT? SO IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME THAT BECAUSE WE RELY SO MUCH ON POLLING, PEOPLE THEN FEEL THAT THERE'S AN INAUTHENTIC CONNECTION WITH THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS. THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS IS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY TECHNOLOGIES OUT THERE, AND TECHNOLOGICAL OPTIONS, WHERE IF WE WERE TO INVEST MORE IN OUR DELIBERATIVE INFRASTRUCTURE, WE COULD DO A BETTER JOB ACTUALLY TALKING TO PEOPLE AND HELP POLITICIANS, WHO ARE FUNDAMENTALLY KIND OF PLATFORMS OF THE PULSE OF THE PEOPLE, DO A BETTER JOB DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.

Steve says IF I LOOK IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, CLIF, SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR II, WE HAVE HAD THE SAME POLITICAL PARTIES IN THIS PROVINCE EXACTLY. WE'VE HAD LIBERALS, TORIES, AND NEW DEMOCRATS SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR II, AND ONE GREEN. IN THE LAST ELECTION WE GOT ONE GREEN, AND THAT WAS THE BIGGEST CHANGE. IF YOU LOOK NEXT DOOR IN QUEBEC OR SASKATCHEWAN OR BRITISH COLUMBIA, YOU HAVE NEW PARTIES COMING AND GOING ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE A VERY TRADITIONAL, ESTABLISHED WAY OF DOING POLITICS IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT REFLECTS CONTENTMENT OR IF IT REFLECTS A SCLEROTIC NATURE OF OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT JUST IS NOT OPEN TO CHANGES. IN THAT CASE, PICK UP ON THAT, IF YOU WOULD. WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT PORTENDS FOR US? CLIF, THAT'S FOR YOU.

The caption changes to "Clifton Van Der Linden. McMaster University."
Then, it changes again to "Democracy without politicians."

Clifton is in his late thirties, with short, side-parted brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit and a blue shirt.

He says IT'S A REFLECTION OF THE POWER MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH VASS' POINT THAT I THINK THERE'S AN APPETITE FOR CHANGE. HOW THAT CHANGE MANIFESTS, THE FORM IT TAKES IS UNCLEAR I THINK TO MOST OF US AND TO MOST MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. BUT I DO THINK INTRODUCING THESE INTERESTING IDEAS ABOUT ALTERNATE FORMS OF GOVERNANCE, AT LEAST OPENS UP A PUBLIC DISCUSSION, A CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT THE CURRENT PROBLEMS REALLY ARE WITH DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATION IN CANADA AND IN ONTARIO, AND PERHAPS THE SOLUTIONS ARE FAR-FETCHED BUT I THINK THAT THE POINT OF THESE THOUGHT EXPERIMENTS, TO GET US THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE MAY HOLD, REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY IS A VERY OLD CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, IT GOES BACK TO THE ROMAN REPUBLIC. SO IT'S NOT... THIS NOTION THAT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE OVERNIGHT BUT THAT WE CAN INTRODUCE NEW IDEAS AND NUANCED WAYS OF THINKING ABOUT IT IN ORDER TO TRY AND ADDRESS SOME OF THE DEFICITS THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED AND HAVE BEEN TRYING TO IMPROVE UPON FOR DECADES.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says GARRY, HOW OPEN DO YOU THINK THE CANADIAN PUBLIC ARE OR, FOR THAT MATTER, HOW OPEN DO YOU THINK OFFICIAL OTTAWA IS TO ENTERTAINING SOME OF THESE NEW AND DIFFERENT IDEAS?

The caption changes to "Garry Keller. Strategycorp."

Garry is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit and a white shirt.

He says WELL, JUST TO GO BACK A LITTLE BIT TO THE LAST POINT, WHICH I THINK WAS REALLY IMPORTANT ABOUT ONTARIO, IS I THINK IT'S NOT JUST A CANADIAN POLITICAL CULTURE. THERE ARE REGIONAL POLITICAL CULTURES THAT DO ACCEPT A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, LOOSE FISH, RANDOMNESS IN THE POLITICAL CULTURE. I THINK OF B.C. I THINK OF ALBERTA WHERE, EVEN AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, B.C. HAS BEEN MORE LIKELY TO ELECT INDEPENDENT MPs TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS THAN ONTARIO HAS. LOOK, OFFICIAL OTTAWA AND THE PARTY SYSTEM IS, YOU KNOW, HIGHLY RESISTANT TO CHANGE, AND THESE THINGS TAKE A LOT OF TIME. BUT PART OF THE REASON IS, AND I WANTED TO TOUCH ON THIS AS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, WELL, MPs SHOULD BE MORE INDEPENDENT AND SPEAK OUT. AND I THINK... EVEN AGAINST THEIR OWN PARTY. AND I THINK IF YOU TALK TO PEOPLE, MPs, WHO HAVE DONE THAT, THEY REALIZE, IT'S NOT A PANACEA. THEY SPEAK OUT AND THEY SAY, WELL, I ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, FEEL VERY DIFFERENT THAN MY PARTY ON THIS ISSUE. I'M ACTUALLY OPPOSED TO PIE PARTY ON THIS ISSUE. WHAT'S THE REWARD FOR IT? THERE'S A MEDIA STORY ABOUT HOW THERE'S DIFFERENTIAL IN THE RANKS AND THIS PERSON IS OFF IN LEFT FIELD. PEOPLE SAY THE LEADERSHIP IS WEAK. WE CAN TALK A LOT ABOUT INDEPENDENT THOUGHT, BUT THE REALITY IS OFFICIAL OTTAWA AND THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE IN PLACE ARE VERY RESISTANCE TO CHANGE.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says VASS, DO YOU WANT THE LAST FEW SECONDS ON THIS?

Vass says SURE. WHAT IF THOSE INDEPENDENTS HAD THE DATA BEHIND THEM TO SAY, LISTEN, I AM THIS CONDUIT FOR MY RIDING. THIS IS THE INFORMATION I HAVE. THIS IS THE DELIBERATIVE WORK I'VE DONE. AND NOW, DOING MY BEST JOB TO REPRESENT THEM AND LAYERING IN MY OWN THOUGHTS, THIS IS KIND OF THE DATA-DRIVEN APPROACH TO DISSENT THAT I'M TAKING. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. WE DON'T WANT POLITICIANS TO BE SWINGING AROUND KIND OF INDEPENDENTLY, NOT ON BEHALF OF ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES, MAKING POLICY AND MAKING DECISIONS. THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve appears on split screens with a guest.

A caption on screen reads "Ontario's opioid crisis is getting worse. The pandemic effect."

Steve says HOW HAS THIS STORY CHANGED POST-PANDEMIC?

The caption changes to "Joel Boivin. Sudbury Action Centre for Youth."

Joel is in his thirties, with long curly hair and a full beard. He's wearing a gray cap and t-shirt.

He says SO IT'S CREATED A REAL LACK OF RESOURCES AND SERVICES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF AGENCIES THAT HAVE STEPPED UP TO TRY AND DO WHAT THEY CAN WITH THE RESOURCES THAT THEY HAVE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME TOO THERE IS NO WAY TO INTRODUCE POLICY AND PROTECTIONS AND PRECAUTIONS WITHOUT TAKING SOME SORT OF RESOURCE AWAY. SO BECAUSE OF THAT PEOPLE ACCESSING THINGS LIKE FOOD BANKS, SOUP KITCHENS, EVEN JUST A PLACE TO STAY OUT OF THE RAIN FOR A LITTLE WHILE, HAS BEEN AN INCREASE CHALLENGE. IN ADDITION TO, EVEN THE RESOURCES THEY GET FROM SOME OF THESE AGENCIES, SO THINGS LIKE THE AMOUNT OF FOOD THAT THEY GET IN A DAY. SO CURRENTLY OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR JUST KIND OF WENT ON A LITTLE BIT OF A WALK, KIND OF WALKING... LIFE IN A DAYTIME OF THING.AS TALLIED UP THE RECEIPT OF SERVICES AS TO HOW MUCH A PERSON ACTUALLY GETS. THE BIG HIGHLIGHT OF THAT AS TO NOT ONLY JUST HOW FAR SOMEONE HAS TO WALK TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL THESE LITTLE SERVICES THAT HAVE KIND OF BEEN SATELLITED OUT OVER THE PANDEMIC, IT'S ALSO DECREASED THE AMOUNT OF QUALITY OF SERVICES, SO THINGS LIKE FOOD. SO SHE ADDED UP THE CALORIES FOR THE DAY. IT WAS 8500 CALORIES THAT A PERSON WOULD CONSUME IN A TYPICAL DAY ON THE STREET. SO THAT'S OVER QUADRUPLE THE TYPICAL INTAKE FOR THE AVERAGE MALE. IT'S MOSTLY OUT OF FIBRE AND SUGARS. MOST PEOPLE WITH A LIVED EXPERIENCE OF THIS IS JUST FEELING CONSTANTLY, REPETITIVELY STARVING THROUGHOUT THE DAY. THEY'RE NOT GETTING CALORIES THAT THEY WOULD AT THE SOUP KITCHEN OR WHATEVER.

Steve says SINCE THE PANDEMIC HIT, HOW HAS THAT CHANGED WHAT YOU DO?

The caption changes to "Anne-Marie Thibault. Gwekwaadziwin Miikan."
Then, it changes again to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Anne-Marie is in her late thirties, with short chestnut hair. She's wearing glasses and a gray blazer.

She says SO WE ARE VERY LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO... THE FACT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO BE ADAPTABLE WITH OUR PROGRAM BECAUSE OF THE LAND BASE. SO WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW TREATMENT PROGRAMS THAT WERE ABLE TO STAY OPEN DURING THE PANDEMIC AND WE'VE HAD PEOPLE WITH US RIGHT THROUGHOUT. THOSE WHO WERE WITH US ON MARCH 13TH WERE ABLE TO COMPLETE THEIR PROGRAM AND PROBABLY QUARANTINED FOR THE LONGEST BECAUSE THEY WERE IN THE WILDERNESS FOR THAT ENTIRE TIME. SO WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE IN THAT WAY. BUT THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT WAIT TIMES HAVE BECOME AN ISSUE. WE'VE HAD TO CHANGE THE PROGRAM FROM A CONTINUOUS INTAKE, A ROLLING INTAKE, TO A COHORT. SO WE'VE HAD TO PUT INTO PLACE QUARANTINE AS WELL AS WITHDRAWAL MANAGEMENT CAMPS JUST TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE WEREN'T COMING IN WITH SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF COVID-19 AND WE WERE ABLE TO PROTECT EVERYBODY IN THE PROGRAM, BUT ALSO IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND ON MANITOULIN ISLAND AND MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE MITIGATING THAT WHEN WE HAD PEOPLE COMING FROM ACROSS ONTARIO TO OUR PROGRAM. SO THAT WAS A BIG ONE FOR US...

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Anne-Marie continues WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM THE PARTICIPANTS THEMSELVES IS, YOU KNOW, BEFORE GETTING HERE, COVID-19 WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM AT HOME BECAUSE THEY'RE SITTING WITH THEIR FEELINGS, AND FOR PEOPLE WITH ADDICTIONS, THAT CAN BE THE HARDEST THING TO DO, AND OFTEN LEADS TO MORE USAGE WHEN YOU HAVE TO SIT ALONE WITH THOSE FEELINGS AND YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO GET OUT AND ABOUT TO DIFFERENT PROGRAMS AND TO DISTRACT. SO THAT'S DEFINITELY ONE OF THE NEGATIVES THAT WE'VE SEEN AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING RIGHT ACROSS ALL ORGANIZATIONS THAT SERVICE MENTAL HEALTH.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve appears on split screens with a guest.

A caption on screen reads "Can America save its working class? This land was made for you and me."

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT HEALTH CARE FOR A SECOND BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CANADIANS FEEL, I THINK, RATHER SMUG AND SUPERIOR ABOUT. THERE'S NOT MUCH IN THIS WORLD, MAYBE HEALTH CARE AND HOCKEY, THAT WE FEEL SMUG AND SUPERIOR ABOUT. BUT THAT'S SURELY ONE OF THEM. LET ME STEAL THIS FROM A RECENT COLUMN YOU WROTE FOR THE NYT.

A quote appears on screen, under the title "We're number 28! And dropping!" The quote reads "The United States ranks number 1 in the world in quality universities, but number 91 in access to quality basic education. The U.S. leads the world in medical technology, yet we are number 97 in access to quality health care."
Quoted from Nicholas Kristof. The New York Times. September 9, 2020.

Steve says SO MUCH OF THE NEGATIVE STORIES THAT YOU TELL IN YOUR BOOK STEM FROM THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE... TOO MANY AMERICANS DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED. LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY. HOW CAN A COUNTRY WHICH IS SO ACCOMPLISHED IN SOME ASPECTS BE APPARENTLY SO DISINTERESTED IN OTHERS?

The caption changes to "Nicholas Kristoff. The New York Times."
Then, it changes again to "How America went astray."

Nicholas is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short, curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit and a white shirt.
A picture of his book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a picture of a brick building on a corner, under a blue sky.

Nicholas says SO I THINK THAT IT GOES BACK TO THE 1970s, AND I THINK... YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME THE U.S. WAS ABOUT AVERAGE AMONG ADVANCED COUNTRIES IN TERMS OF HEALTH METRICS. CANADA ITSELF WAS THEN JUST KIND OF BEGINNING AT THE PROVINCIAL LEVEL TO WORK ITS WAY TOWARD NATIONAL HEALTH CARE. AND THEN OTHER COUNTRIES SURPASSED US IN EDUCATIONAL INVESTMENT, IN HEALTH CARE, IN BUILDING SOCIAL SUPPORT MECHANISMS, AND MEANWHILE THE U.S. DEVELOPED TWO NARRATIVES THAT I THINK WERE EXTRAORDINARILY UNHELPFUL. AND ONE THAT GOVERNMENT CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT, AND THE OTHER IS THAT IT'S ALL ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. AND WHEN PEOPLE STRUGGLE, IT'S ABOUT THEIR BAD CHOICES, AND THEY SHOULD BE BLAMED FOR THEIR STRUGGLES. OTHER COUNTRIES, CANADA INCLUDED, DID NOT HAVE THOSE NARRATIVES, AND I THINK THAT MADE THEM MORE LIKELY TO REACH OUT AND HELP PEOPLE, WHEREAS IT MADE THE U.S. LESS LIKELY TO DO SO IN WAYS THAT HURT NOT ONLY THOSE INDIVIDUALS BUT OUR COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says LET ME DO A FOLLOW-UP ON THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T GOT A PERFECT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM HERE BY ANY STRETCH, BUT NOBODY LOSES THEIR HOUSE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR AN OPERATION HERE. YOU HAVE A LINE BY WALTER CRONKITE, THE GREAT ANCHOR IN YOUR BOOK, WHICH I THINK IS GREAT, THE AMERICAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS NEITHER HEALTHY NOR CARING OR A SYSTEM. EXPLAIN TO CANADIANS, WHO MAY NOT UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE IT HERE WHY HEALTH CARE AND ACCESS TO IT CAN BE A LEADING CAUSE OF BANKRUPTCY AND THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, COMPLETE HUMILIATION AND THE END OF YOUR LIFE?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Nicholas says WE IN THE U.S. HAVE THE WORST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS. WE HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE HEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD PER CAPITA, EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, AND YET WE DON'T HAVE BROAD ACCESS. AND SO IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T HAVE STRONG INSURANCE COVERAGE, THEN YOU'RE STUCK WITH BILLS THAT ARE JUST COMPLETELY UNPAYABLE, AND THAT IS, AS YOU SAY, OUR LEADING CAUSE OF BANKRUPTCY. AND IT'S NOT... YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT MEDICAL INSURANCE, BUT IT'S ALSO DENTAL. ABOUT 30 MILLION AMERICANS DON'T HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE. ABOUT 78 MILLION DON'T HAVE DENTAL INSURANCE. AND FOR "TIGHTROPE," WE VISITED... I DESCRIBE A MAN WHO HAD... WAS GETTING FREE DENTAL CARE. HE HAD 20 TEETH BEING PULLED AT ONCE...

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Nicholas continues YOU KNOW, 20 TEETH! HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? IT'S JUST... IT'S MIND BOGGLING. THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING IN AN ADVANCED COUNTRY. AND YET HERE THE U.S. IS WITH SOME OF THE BEST MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY AND YOU HAVE THESE SITUATIONS... EVEN KIDS IN AMERICA, A CHILD IN AMERICA IS 55 percent MORE LIKELY TO DIE BY AGE 19 THAN A CHILD IN OTHER OECD COUNTRIES. THAT'S NOT BECAUSE THAT CHILD IS MAKING POOR CHOICES. IT'S BECAUSE WE AS A COUNTRY IN THE U.S. ARE MAKING POOR CHOICES.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve appears on split screens with a guest.

A caption on screen reads "The Lady Black tells all. Life as a socialite."

Steve says WE'LL ESTABLISH THE FOLLOWING. WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT YOU DIDN'T DIVORCE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, WELL IN THE PAST, AND THEREFORE YOU CAME TO YOUR MARRIAGE WITH LORD BLACK WITH VERY LITTLE MONEY, AND SUDDENLY YOU'VE GOT THIS QUITE WONDERFUL LIFESTYLE AND YOU DO, WE SHOULD SAY, YOU DON'T SHY AWAY FROM THE MOST FAMOUS QUOTE YOU UTTERED IN THE BOOK TO THAT VOGUE REPORTER, I HAVE EXTRAVAGANCE THAT KNOWS NO BOUNDS. I WANT TO READ A QUOTE AND WE'LL COME BACK AND CHAT ABOUT IT.

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Simply tired of us." The quote reads "AS it was, I wat listing our errors and our offences as honestly as I could, to make sense of it all. I clearly had an offensive, smug and abrasive personality. We had been too blatant in our enjoyment of what Conrad called 'the preferments' of his position. There were just too many photos, too many pictures of us enjoying ourselves all over the place with important people. Hear Conrad on the radio. See Conrad being made a peer -and complaining about the loss of his citizenship. See Barbara prancing around on the social pages of The New York Times. Read her fey comments about extravagance and clothes that give Conrad's enemies an open sesame. People were simply tired of us: tired of our being and our bloody self-importance in the pronouncements we made verbally or in print."
Quoted from Barbara Amiel, "Friends and enemies." 2020.

Steve says I GOES I WANT TO PICK UP FROM THAT AND SAY, DO YOU THINK THAT A LOT OF THE EVENTUAL VERY ZEALOUS PROSECUTION OF HIM BY LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITIES WAS IN PART, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF...

Barbara says ME.

Steve says WELL, OKAY, YOU. I WASN'T GOING TO SAY IT BUT YOU JUST SAID IT.

The caption changes to "Barbara Amiel. Author, 'Friends and enemies.'"
Then, it changes again to "Justice overserved?"

Barbara is in her seventies, with chin-length wavy brown hair. She's wearing a red blouse and a pendant necklace.

She says NO, LET'S NOT SHY AWAY FROM IT. AND BEFORE I ANSWER THAT I'LL SAY I'M HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY WITH PUBLICIZING THIS BOOK BECAUSE I'M AFRAID THE SAME LOOP WILL START AGAIN. THERE'S TOO MUCH OF ME PUSHING THIS BOOK. THERE'S TOO MUCH OF ME ON TELEVISION. IT'S GETTING INCREASINGLY PAINFUL TO DO THESE INTERVIEWS. I'M JUST AFRAID OF STARTING THAT OFF AGAIN.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Barbara continues I THINK THAT CONRAD WOULD PROBABLY HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE SAME AWFUL TIMES AGAIN WITHOUT ME, BUT I THINK THAT I STARTED IT OFF AND MADE IT SO MUCH WORSE. WHEN I GAVE THAT INTERVIEW TO JULIA REID AT VOGUE, WHO IS A WONDERFUL JOURNALIST WHO DIED JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, AND SHE QUOTED IT ABSOLUTELY ACCURATELY AND THEN SHE WROTE LETTERS TO NEWSPAPERS SAYING SHE WAS JUST MAKING FUN OF HERSELF, BEGGING THEM NOT TO KEEP HITTING ME OVER THE HEAD WITH IT. BUT I DID MAKE IT. IT WAS ACCURATE. I DID SPEND THE MONEY. IT WAS AMAZING TO ME. I MEAN, I HAD NEVER HAD THIS FREEDOM. I HAD ALWAYS HAD TO EARN MY MONEY, WHETHER I WAS MARRIED TO SOMEONE WEALTHY OR NOT. I ALWAYS HAD TO LOOK OUT FOR MYSELF. AND SUDDENLY, HERE I WAS IN THIS GLITTERING WORLD, AND ATTACHED TO PEOPLE WHO, BY THEIR NATURE, HAD THEIR PICTURE IN THE PAPERS. I THINK THAT MY EXTRAVAGANCE BECAME SOMETHING THAT OTHER JOURNALISTS COULD USE TO BEAT US OVER THE HEAD WITH. SO IT IGNITED A MEDIA FIRESTORM, AND THAT IN TURN CREATED OR ADDED TO THE ATMOSPHERE AROUND CONRAD. IT WAS A TIME, YOU'LL REMEMBER, WHEN AMERICAN PROSECUTORS WERE LOOKING FOR HIGH-PROFILE HEADS BECAUSE OF THE ENRON AND WORLDCOM BANKRUPTCY...

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Barbara continues EVERYBODY WANTED TO HAVE A CONVICTION TO GET TO THE NEXT LEVEL AS A PROSECUTOR. AND I THINK THAT THE MEDIA FIRESTORM AROUND US HELPED GET THAT PROSECUTION GOING. IT'S AN INTERESTING THING BECAUSE IT STARTED OUT NOT AS A BATTLE OVER HOW MUCH MONEY CONRAD WAS MAKING OR WHETHER HE HAD STOLEN MONEY, IT STARTED OUT SIMPLY... AND THIS IS REALLY THE BASIS OF THE WHOLE THING... AS ONE LARGE INVESTOR WANTING CONRAD TO SELL THE TELEGRAPH, BREAK UP THE COMPANY, AND THUS REALIZED THE VALUE OF THE STOCK. CONRAD THOUGHT IT HADN'T REACHED THE POINT WHERE IT SHOULD BE BROKEN UP. PERSONALLY, I JUST THINK HE DIDN'T WANT TO SELL THE TELEGRAPH EITHER. BUT THAT WAS THE BASIS. AND THE ONLY WAY THE INVESTOR COULD GET THE COMPANY BROKEN UP WAS TO GET CONRAD OUT OF THE COMPANY, BECAUSE HE HAD THE VOTING STOCKS, AND THE EASIEST WAY TO DO IT IN THAT HYSTERICAL ATMOSPHERE WAS TO ACCUSE HIM OF WRONGDOING. BECAUSE JUST LIKE WITH THE METOO SITUATION OR THE CANCEL CULTURE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING. YOU JUST HAVE TO SAY THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG. AND THEN THE PERSON'S FINISHED.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve appears on split screens with three other guests.

A caption on screen reads "Planning for climate action in Hamilton. Fixing infrastructure."

Steve says WE HAD A... MY GOODNESS. IT WAS JUST AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM ON LATE LAST NIGHT ON TVO CALLED "THE LIFE-SIZED CITY." THAT'S A MULTI-PART CITY WHICH NORMALLY FOCUSES ON SOME OF THE BIGGEST CITIES IN THE WORLD. AND LAST NIGHT'S SHOW WAS ABOUT HAMILTON. THEY WERE LOOKING AT MID-SIZED CITIES LAST NIGHT AND THEY PUT THE ACCENT ON HAMILTON. WELL, LET'S LOOK AT A CLIP FROM THE SHOW AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND HAVE A CHAT. SHELDON, THE CLIP, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE?

A clip plays on screen with the caption "The life-sized city."

As two men walk down a sidewalk in Toronto, a map shows the location of King Street.

One man says THIS IS KING STREET. IT'S ABOUT FIVE LANES OF TRAFFIC ALL IN ONE DIRECTION. THIS IS PROBABLY A FOURTH BODY BLOW WE TOOK. I THINK IT WAS 1952. THEY JUST OVERNIGHT CHANGED ALL THE STREETS TO ONE WAY.

The other man says OH, WOW.

The first man says THEY THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT WAY TO RENEW A CITY. FACILITATE THE AUTOMOBILE TRAFFIC AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW. SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF INITIATIVE AND LOBBYING OVER THE YEARS TO CHANGE MAIN STREET IN HAMILTON BACK TO TWO-WAY. IT WOULD REALLY HELP TO SLOW DOWN TRAFFIC, TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT FEEL COMFORTABLE AGAIN.

The clip ends.

Steve says IT WAS ON LAST NIGHT AND IF YOU MISSED IT, IT'S ON AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT AS WELL. IT'S REALLY MUST-SEE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW CITIES WORK. BOY, OH BOY. I LIVED IN HAMILTON FROM THE BEGINNING OF MY LIFE UNTIL AGE 18 WHEN I MOVED HERE, AND THOSE ONE-WAY STREETS, I MEAN, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING ABOUT THAT FOR... WELL, FOR DECADES. SO LET'S GET INTO SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS. BEATRICE, IN TERMS OF WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THE ONE-WAY STREET ISSUE?

The caption changes to "Beatrice Ekoko. Environment Hamilton."
Then, it changes again to "The life-sized city – Hamilton. Tuesday 9 PM. Also streaming at tvo.org/documentaries."

Beatrice is in her thirties, with dark hair in a bun. She's wearing glasses and a green blouse.

She says ABSOLUTELY TWO-WAY MAKES SENSE. THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THERE'S MORE VIBRANCY, TRAFFIC IS SLOWED, PEOPLE ARE MORE CAPABLE OF WALKING WITHOUT FEAR OF THE SPEEDING TRAFFIC, BUSINESSES THRIVE. I THINK IT WAS A DECADE AGO WHERE JANE STREET WAS CONVERTED TO TWO-WAY AND YOU CAN JUST SEE THE VIBRANCY THAT'S HAPPENING THERE. I MUST SAY, THOUGH, THERE IS IN HAMILTON SPECIFICALLY, WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF INDUSTRIAL TRUCKS THAT ARE KIND OF BARRELING THROUGH NEIGHBOURHOODS, AND I THINK THIS IS... RIGHT NOW WE'RE GOING THROUGH KIND OF A REVIEW OF THE TRUCK ROUTE SYSTEM AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL FIND THAT IN MANY OF THESE CASES, THIS KIND OF ADDS TO THE PRESSURE ON THESE STREETS, ON THESE ONE-WAY STREETS AS WELL. IT'S JUST A TERRIBLE WAY TO... THE QUALITY OF LIFE IS VERY MUCH IMPACTED BY THAT KIND OF SITUATION. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PUSHING, ENVIRONMENT HAMILTON, TO REALLY ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY TO... AND WE'RE HEARING FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY DON'T WANT THIS. THEY DON'T WANT THIS KIND OF... THEY WANT THE SLOWER TRAFFIC. THEY WANT THE TWO-WAY STREET CAN BRING, THAT DOESN'T HAVE 18-WHEEL INDUSTRIAL TRUCK BARRELING ALONG THROUGH IT AND POLLUTION IN THE AIR, AND REALLY COMPROMISING... TO MARY LOU'S COMMENT ABOUT THE NEED FOR THE GOOD, HEALTHY GREEN SPACES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MANY AREAS IN THE CITY THAT HAVE VERY POOR TREE CANOPY COVERAGE, AND ALL THIS COMBINED ADDS TO TERRIBLE AIR QUALITY AND WE REALLY NEED TO CHANGE THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO BE ADDRESSING... IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENT HERE AND LIVEABILITY.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says THERE MAY BE MORE THAN ONE GOOD THING ABOUT ONE-WAY STREETS YOU CAN GET FROM ONE END OF THE CITY TO THE OTHER VERY QUICKLY AND UNLIKE IN TORONTO, ALL THE LIGHTS ARE SYNCHRONIZED. ONCE YOU GET GOING, YOU CAN JUST KEEP FLYING. IT'S GREAT IF YOU'RE IN A CAR. BUT IF YOU'RE TRYING TO ACTUALLY CREATE A LITTLE STREET LIFE AND ENVIRONMENTAL SENSIBILITY, NOT TOO GOOD FOR THAT, I GUESS, EH?

The caption changes to "Maureen Wilson. Hamilton City Councillor."

Maureen is in her forties, with long wavy brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a green sweater.

She says YEAH, I HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT OUR ONE-WAY STREETS. LET ME JUST PUT THAT OUT THERE. YOU CAN'T HAVE A VIBRANT, FAIR, LIVABLE, SUSTAINABLE CITY WHEN YOU HAVE THE LIKES OF A 403 GOING ON BOTH SIDES RIGHT THROUGH IT...

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Maureen continues SO IF YOU WANT TO DRIVE THROUGH YOUR CITY EFFICIENTLY AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED FOR AND TO GET WORKERS DOWN TO OUR INDUSTRIAL AND MANUFACTURING WATERFRONT, YES, IT IS THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY IN WHICH TO MOVE TRANSPORTATION. BUT IT'S A WAY IN WHICH YOU CAN KILL YOUR CITY. AND IT'S BEEN DISASTROUS.

The clips end and Nam stands in the studio alone.

She says THAT'S JUST SOME OF WHAT WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON THE AGENDA. FOR MORE, INCLUDING THE FULL CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE, tvo.org, OUR YouTube CHANNEL AT youtube.com/theagenda OR OUR TWITTER FEED: twitter.com/TheAgenda.

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