Transcript: Vying to Lead Canada's Green Party | May 01, 2020

Steve sits in a room with white walls, a low slanted ceiling and several framed pictures on the walls including one of George Drew and one of Walter Kronkite. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a white shirt and a spotted purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "Vying to lead Canada's Green Party. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says GLEN MURRAY HAS HAD A PRETTY GOOD RUN IN ELECTIVE POLITICS, FROM MAYOR OF WINNIPEG IN 1998 TO RUNNING FOR PARLIAMENT IN 2004, TO ONTARIO CABINET MINISTER IN 2010, TO A RUN FOR ONTARIO LIBERAL LEADER IN 2013. HE LEFT QUEEN'S PARK THREE YEARS AGO, BUT OBVIOUSLY HE FEELS HE STILL HAS AN UNFULFILLED POLITICAL MISSION BECAUSE HE'S ANNOUNCED HE'S SEEKING THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GREEN PARTY OF CANADA, TRYING TO REPLACE ELIZABETH MAY. AND GLEN MURRAY JOINS US NOW FROM WINNIPEG, MANITOBA.

Glen is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a black suit and a blue shirt.

Steve continues MR. MURRAY, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. HOW ARE YOU MANAGING?

Glen says WELL, I THINK I'M VERY FORTUNATE, STEVE. THOSE OF US WHO HAVE SOME INCOME, HAVE OUR FAMILIES SAFE RIGHT NOW, IT'S A BLESSING. SO I FEEL VERY BLESSED. I'M FEELING VERY GRATEFUL FOR MY LIFE RIGHT NOW.

Steve says GOOD TO HEAR. LET'S START WITH THE OBVIOUS QUESTION. I THOUGHT YOU WERE A LIBERAL. NOW YOU'RE RUNNING FOR THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GREENS. HOW COME?

The caption changes to "Glen Murray. Green Party Leadership Candidate."

Glen says I'M SURE TOM MULCAIR AND BOB RAE WERE ASKED THAT QUESTION WHEN THEY... I THINK THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE TODAY THAT BY GEOGRAPHY, BY TIME, BY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT, PARTIES HAVE REPRESENTED DIFFERENT THINGS, AND EVEN PEOPLE WHO IN THE... IN ANY SENSE OF THE WORD, YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT WITH, WHEN THEY RISE... THEY FIND AN ALIGNMENT TO A DIFFERENT PARTY. IF YOU'RE SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH KATHLEEN WYNNE AND DALTON McGUINTY ON EVERYTHING FROM CAP AND TRADE AND ZERO WASTE TO THE UNIVERSAL MINIMUM INCOME PROJECT OR WHAT WE CALL GUARANTEED LIVABLE INCOME IN THE GREEN PARTY, THERE'S A VERY STRONG ALIGNMENT BETWEEN WHAT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN WORKING ON AS A MAYOR, AS AN ONTARIO CABINET MINISTER WITH WHERE THE GREENS ARE AT RIGHT NOW. THERE'S NO OTHER PARTY THAT I FEEL SO MUCH IN COMMON WITH OR SO TRUSTING OF AND SO COMFORTABLE WITH THE VALUES OF THE PROCESS AS WELL. IT'S KIND OF A NATURAL FIT FOR ME AT THIS POINT AND VERY CONSISTENT WITH MOST OF MY PRIORITIES OF MY PUBLIC LIFE.

Steve says WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK AND TALK MORE BRASS KNUCKLES POLITICS IN A BIT BUT I DO OBVIOUSLY WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE THIS COVID CRISIS IS AWFUL, BUT AS WE LOOK FOR SILVER LININGS, ONE CAN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THAT THE SKIES ARE CLEARER EVERYWHERE, THERE'S A LOT LESS POLLUTION. OUR CITIES SEEM TO BE CLEANER. BUT THE NEXT QUESTION IS: AND THEREFORE WHAT? WHAT DO WE DO WITH THIS?

The caption changes to "Glen Murray. Former Ontario Liberal Cabinet Minister."

Glen says WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PROCESS AND THE OUTCOME. THE OUTCOME OF LESS POLLUTION, CLEANER AIR, MORE PEOPLE WALKING, MORE PEOPLE RIDING, I THINK PEOPLE ARE FEELING HEALTHIER WHEN THEY ARE OUTSIDE, THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE OPPOSITE EXPERIENCE. IT'S A TRANSFORMATION OF OUR ECONOMY. IT'S BETTER CAREERS AND MORE CAREERS FOR PEOPLE. IT'S MORE PEOPLE WORKING. IT WILL ACTUALLY GET RID OF ALL THAT POLLUTION BY ELECTRIFYING OUR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, OUR HOMES, ADOPTING CLEAN TECHNOLOGY ON A MASSIVE SCALE, AND THAT WILL TAKE... THAT WILL PROBABLY BE... RETROFITTING ALL THE BUILDINGS IN OUR COUNTRY. THAT WILL BE ABOUT THE BIGGEST JOB CREATION PROJECT IN THE HISTORY OF CANADA. SO WE WOULD EXPERIENCE THE EFFORTS TO DO THIS PROPERLY THROUGH THE TRANSFORMATION TO WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL A CIRCULAR ECONOMY OR A ZERO POLLUTION ECONOMY, WITHOUT ALL THE PAIN OF JOB LOSS AND ISOLATION AND FEAR FOR LOVED ONES AND DISCONNECTION. SO GOOD OUTCOMES IN THE SENSE I THINK WE'RE ALL HAPPY THAT GHGs ARE DOWN A BIT AND AIR QUALITY, BUT THE PRICE WE'RE PAYING FOR IT IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE, AND IT'S A GOOD WARNING THAT PREPARATION, GETTING AHEAD OF THESE PROBLEMS, RESOLVING THEM WHEN THINGS ARE MORE STABLE, THAN WAITING UNTIL A CRISIS HAPPENS AND TRYING TO FIX IT AFTER THE FACT. I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER LESSON OF COVID. BEHIND COVID, WE HAVE TO FLATTEN THE CLIMATE CHANGE CURVE OR WE'RE GOING TO BE IN MUCH MORE DISRUPTION IN THE FUTURE.

Steve says IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE HAVE SORT OF AS A COUNTRY BEEN LOOKING FOR A NATIONAL PROJECT TO ANIMATE US. PEOPLE LIKE YOU HAVE SAID, WELL, THAT PROJECT OUGHT TO BE CLIMATE CHANGE. FOR SOME REASON IT NEVER REALLY HAS BEEN IN THE WAY THAT IT IS NOW, WHERE WE'RE ALL TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, CONTRIBUTE TO THE FIGHT AGAINST COVID-19. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

Glen says BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE SPENT... ONE OF MY FRIENDS WHO IS A TRAVEL AGENT SAYS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT CLIMATE ACTION. IF IT'S LIKE I TRIED TO SELL A VACATION BY THE AIRPORT EXPERIENCE AND THE PRICE OF A TICKET AND DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE DESTINATION AND THE BEACH. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING ANOTHER NATIONAL DREAM, A HIGH-SPEED ELECTRIC RAIL SYSTEM ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, OF HIGH-SPEED ELECTRIC [indiscernible] PLUS, THAT WOULD BE A MAJOR ECONOMIC RENEWAL PROJECT. IT WOULD MEAN OF US COULD GO BETWEEN CITIES, CERTAINLY GET RID OF SHORT-HAUL PRICE. PEOPLE RIGHT NOW CAN'T AVOID, FIND IT HARD TO AVOID AIRCRAFT. WHY NOT HAVE HIGH-SPEED RAIL? EVERYONE WOULD LIKE TO LIVE IN A COMFORTABLE HOME THAT COSTS LESS TO LIVE IN. WE'VE GOT SUBDIVISIONS. THESE SUBDIVISIONS ALREADY, WHERE THE TECHNOLOGIES IN THERE, WITH PASSIVE BUILDINGS AND GEOTHERMAL AND SOLAR PANELS, THOSE BUILDINGS GENERATE MORE ENERGY AND HEATING AND COOLING THAN THEY NEED. YOU GO FROM WHAT ECONOMISTS ARE CALLING A CONSUMER TO A PRO-SUMER. YOU'RE ACTUALLY SELLING THE NET PROCEEDS OF YOUR BUILDING. YOU CAN IMAGINE IF WE RETROFITTED BUILDINGS FOR BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS, WE WOULD CREATE DEMAND, THOSE WOULD STIMULATE BUSINESS. WE NEED TO BE RUNNING ON AND TALKING ABOUT. I THINK PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTED WITH HEARING ABOUT PARTS PER MILLION AND CARBON TAXES. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GREAT VISION OF GETTING PEOPLE BACK TO WORK, GETTING BUSINESSES BACK ONLINE, RESTORING OUR ECOSYSTEMS AND BUILDING HEALTHIER CITIES. AND THE GREENS ARE SAYING THAT MORE EFFECTIVELY, MORE CONSISTENTLY THAN ANYONE ELSE, I THINK.

Steve says I HAVE NO HESITATION IN PUTTING ON THE RECORD RIGHT NOW THAT I THINK YOUR ENVIRONMENTAL CHOPS, IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY ARE, YOU KNOW, AS GOOD AS ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER BEEN IN POLITICS IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY. I MEAN, YOU'RE A FORMER ENVIRONMENT MINISTER FOR ONTARIO, PRIME MINISTER PAUL MARTIN TASKED YOU TO CHAIR A NATIONAL ROUNDTABLE ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE ECONOMY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PEMBINA INSTITUTE, HEAD OF THE CANADIAN URBAN INSTITUTE. BUT OF COURSE THAT'S ONLY HALF THE STORY WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING FOR POLITICS. THE OTHER HALF IS, CAN YOU GET PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN GREENS FOR MUCH OF THEIR LIVES TO SEE YOU IN A WAY THAT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN THE PAST? HOW MUCH OF AN ISSUE DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE? YOU TOLD A JOKE OFF THE TOP THAT BOB RAE AND TOM MULCAIR FACED THE SAME THING, SO DID WINSTON CHURCHILL. WHEN YOU LEAVE A PARTY, SOME OF THE PEOPLE NEVER WANT TO SPEAK TO YOU AGAIN. ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THAT?

Glen says THAT'S NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE. IT'S ALSO A DIFFERENT POLITICAL CULTURE. WHAT I'M MOST EXCITED ABOUT IS, FIRST OF ALL, I'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE THAT THAT HASN'T BEEN MY EXPERIENCE, EVEN BY LONG-TIME LIBERALS AND PEOPLE WHO HOLD ELECTED OFFICE, THEY'VE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE. NOT ALL OF THEM, OBVIOUSLY, BUT A LARGE NUMBER. FOR ME WHAT IS DIFFERENT WITH THE GREEN PARTY, AND I DISCOVERED THIS WHEN I SPENT A COUPLE OF DAYS LISTENING TO PETER BEVAN-BAKER IN PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND ABOUT HOW THEY'VE CHANGED POLITICS IN PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND TO A COLLABORATIVE CULTURE. TO ME THIS CAMPAIGN IS MORE ABOUT LISTENING THAN TALKING. IT IS AN INCREDIBLY DYNAMIC GROUP OF PEOPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LEADERSHIP RACE, WE HAVE AN EMINENT LAWYER, AN ASTROPHYSICIST. THIS IS A TIME FOR HUMILITY AMONG POLITICAL LEADERSHIP. THE GREENS ALREADY HAVE A GOOD PARTY. I'LL BRING SOME IDEAS TO IT. BUT IT'S MORE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE CULTURE AND THE IDEAS OF THE PARTY. A LISTENING LEADERSHIP. THERE'S SOMETHING I LEARNED IN POLITICS BEFORE. I HAVE A BIT OF A REPUTATION AS A TALKER, AS YOU MAY KNOW. SO THIS HAS BEEN A REAL CHANGE FOR ME IN MY LIFE.

Steve says SINCE YOU WERE I IT UP, I CAN'T RESIST GOING HERE. SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS AGO YOU RAN FOR THE LEADERSHIP OF THE ONTARIO LIBERALS AND YOU ULTIMATELY DID NOT GO TO THE FINISH LINE. YOU DROPPED OUT EARLY IN SUPPORT OF KATHLEEN WYNNE. AS YOU POINT OUT, YOU DID AT THE TIME HAVE A WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED SOME WOULD SAY CHARACTER FLAW THAT YOU LOVE TO TALK WAY MORE THAN YOU LIKE TO LISTEN AND WE CHATTED ABOUT THAT BACK IN JANUARY OF 2013. HAVE A LOOK AT THIS CLIP. CHAD, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE?

A clip plays on screen with the caption "January 10, 2013."
In the clip, Steve and Glen talk in the studio.

Steve says YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU KNOW. YOU SAID BEFORE WE STARTED THIS INTERVIEW, I'M GOING TO STUN YOU WITH MY BREVITY AND YOU ARE DOING SO RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THE BRIEF CANDIDATE. SO WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

Glen says YOU KNOW, THE ONE THING I LEARNED FROM DALTON McGUINTY AND I THINK MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID ABOUT HIM, HE'S NOT THE GUY HE WAS 16 YEARS AGO, AND SOMEONE ASKED ME, WHAT WAS THE ONE THING I LEARNED FROM HIM? YOU HAVE TO CHANGE. YOU HAVE TO GROW.

Steve says AND THAT MEANS IN YOUR CASE WHAT?

Glen says SAY LESS.

The clip ends.

Steve laughs and says OKAY. ALL RIGHT. HERE WE GO. WELL, OKAY. ON THAT FRONT OF SAY LESS, YOU KNOW, THEY DO SAY A LEOPARD CAN'T CHANGE HIS SPOTS. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN TRANSFORM YOURSELF INTO A GUY WHO LISTENS MORE AND TALKS LESS?

Glen says YEAH, I... YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD VERY UNUSUAL JOBS, WORKING WITH STREET KIDS FOR 12 YEARS... THIS MAY SURPRISE YOU. I WASN'T KNOWN THEN AS A BIG TALKER. LISTENING TO KIDS WHO HAD TROUBLE EVEN COMMUNICATING AND WERE REALLY DESTITUTE AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS DALTON... YOU CAN FIND A SEQUENCE BETWEEN THE FUTURE AND THE PAST. IT'S NOT ALWAYS EASY FOR ME, AND WHEN YOU'RE A CABINET MINISTER, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE HARD CORE PORTFOLIOS LIKE I HAD, YOU HAVE TO DO A LOT OF TALKING, YOU HAVE LIMITED BANDWIDTH WHEN YOU'RE COMPETING WITH THE OPPOSITION, YOU'RE TRYING TO GET MESSAGES OUT. BEING THE LEADER OF THE GREEN PARTY IS A VERY DIFFERENT THING. IT'S A FACILITATOR AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE. YOU HAVE A GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENT AND A HIGH LEVEL OF PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY. SO THAT TO ME IS ACTUALLY EXCITING. I DON'T THINK IT'S AS EXHAUSTING AS A CONVENTIONAL MODEL FOR POLITICAL LEADERSHIP.

Steve says I THINK AS RECENTLY AS FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS AGO, YOU WERE TELLING PEOPLE THAT YOU HAD ABSOLUTELY, ADAMANTLY, NO INTEREST IN DOING THIS. YET HERE YOU ARE. SO WHAT'S CHANGED?

Glen says YOU KNOW, 6-YEAR DROUGHT IN SYRIA, CLIMATE-RELATED, 8.6 MILLION REFUGEES, MANY OF THEM ARE NEIGHBOURS OF MINE IN TORONTO. FIRES IN AUSTRALIA THAT BURNS DOWN SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 20 AND 2. A COLLAPSE OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE GHG REDUCTION EFFORTS IN CANADA. WE'VE JUST JUMPED 15 MEGATONNES. WHEN I LEFT POLITICS, ONTARIO AND QUEBEC WERE HEADING FOR CLOSE TO 40 percent GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTIONS. THERE WAS PLENTY OF OPTIMISM IN THE COUNTRY [AUDIO DIFFICULTIES]... TRYING TO BUILD PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY. THAT'S ALL DIFFERENT NOW. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE PHONED ME AND SAID, WE HAVE TO GET THINGS BACK ON TRACK. I DON'T PLAN ON BEING THE LEADER OF THE GREEN PARTY IN TEN YEARS, MAYBE EVEN IN FIVE. THERE'S A LOT OF YOUNG, ENTHUSIASTIC PEOPLE THERE. I WANT TO HELP THEM TAKE THE POLITICAL EXPERIENCE I HAD AND GETTING ELECTED IN DIFFERENT PLACES, BRING THAT ENERGY AND SOME OF THAT KNOWLEDGE, TO A HIGHLY PARTICIPATORY PARTY. THAT'S WHERE I SEE IT GOING. I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING TIMES IN CANADIAN POLITICS.

Steve says I THINK I REMEMBER, YOU'RE BORN IN MONTREAL, AREN'T YOU?

Glen speaks in French and says I WAS BORN IN MONTREAL.

Steve says THAT'S MY NEXT QUESTION: HOW'S YOUR FRENCH?

Glen says I WOULD SAY IT HAS BEEN CLOSE TO FLUENT. I WOULD SAY IT'S FUNCTIONAL NOW. IT'S A PERSONAL PRIORITY OF MINE TO GET IT BACK UP. MY FRIENDSHIP WITH DAVID HERTL, BECOMING MY POLITICAL PROFESSOR OF LATE, IT'S BEEN VERY HUMBLING. BUT, YEAH. I'M VERY CONFIDENT I'LL HAVE IT UP TO FIGHTING SPEED SOON. IT'S FUNCTIONAL NOW. YOU SAW IT WHEN I WAS CABINET MINISTER. IT WASN'T BAD. IT'S AN AREA I'M WORKING ON.

Steve says I THINK THE FIRST TIME I MET YOU WAS PROBABLY MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO WHEN I INTERVIEWED YOU FOR MY FIRST BOOK AND YOU WERE THE MAYOR OF WINNIPEG AT THE TIME.

Glen says YEAH.

Steve says AND I THINK, IF MEMORY SERVES, YOU WERE THE FIRST OPENLY GAY MAYOR OF ANY BIG CITY IN NORTH AMERICA...

Glen says IN THE WORLD.

Steve says IN THE WORLD, OKAY.

Glen says YEAH.

Steve says IT'S WITH THAT IN MIND THAT I ASK THIS NEXT QUESTION: HAVE WE EVER HAD AN OPENLY GAY NATIONAL PARTY LEADER IN CANADIAN HISTORY? I CAN'T THINK OF ONE, BUT YOU TELL ME.

Glen says I DON'T KNOW. CANADIAN HISTORY? I MEAN, MOST GAY, LESBIAN, TRANSGENDER PEOPLE TO SURVIVE IN CANADIAN HISTORY HAS...

Steve says BUT NOT OPENLY GAY.

Glen says NOT OPENLY GAY. I'VE LIVED MY LIFE, WHEN I GOT ELECTED IN THE '80s, I COULDN'T HAVE REALLY POINTED TO A ROLE MODEL. A CITY COUNCILLOR MAYBE. HARVEY MILK WHO WAS SHOT IN SAN FRANCISCO. MY ELECTION IN 1988 AS A GAY MAN WAS VERY SURPRISING AS IT WAS WHEN I WAS MAYOR. AND IT SPEAKS TO THE QUALITIES OF CANADIANS. PEOPLE DID NOT THINK WINNIPEG WOULD BE THE FIRST PLACE TO DO IT. BUT IF YOU'RE REALLY HONEST WITH PEOPLE, YOU'RE AUTHENTIC, YOU'RE REAL, THEY'LL TRUST YOU. AND PEOPLE NEED POLITICIANS THEY CAN TRUST NOW AND THEY NEED POLITICIANS THAT CAN LISTEN TO THEM, LIFT UP THEIR VOICE.

Steve says IT'S WHY I WANTED TO ASK YOU THE QUESTION. WOULD IT BE A BIG DEAL TO YOU TO BECOME THE FIRST OPENLY GAY NATIONAL LEADER OF A POLITICAL PARTY IN CANADIAN HISTORY?

Glen says NO, IT WOULDN'T. IT WOULD MATTER MORE TO ME THAT WE... THAT IN DOING THAT, WE CAN BEND THE CLIMATE CHANGE CURVE THE WAY THAT WE'RE BENDING THE COVID CURVE. THAT WE CAN GET DOWN TO WHAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS IS A 7 OR . THAT WE ACTUALLY GET ON A TRAJECTORY THAT WE LEAVE A LIVABLE PLANET FOR OUR CHILDREN. RIGHT NOW WE'RE PROBABLY THE FIRST GENERATION THAT HAS PUT THE FUTURE OF THE NEXT GENERATION AT RISK. OUR PARENTS DIDN'T DO THAT. OUR GRANDPARENTS DIDN'T DO THAT. AND TO ME THERE'S A SECRET BOND BETWEEN GENERATIONS: THAT YOU LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN AS PROSPEROUS AND AS HEALTHY A WORLD AS YOU INHERITED FROM YOUR PARENTS. THAT IS WHAT REALLY DRIVES ME. AND I'M ALSO IN A RACE WITH SOME REMARKABLE CANDIDATES WHO REPRESENT DIVERSITY IN BOTH AGE, RACE, NATIONALITY, ETHNICITY, FAITH. WE FACE A LOT OF SYSTEMIC MISOGYNY, RACISM IN THIS SOCIETY. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE GREEN PARTY, IT'S FIGHTING IT OPENLY BUT IT'S FIGHTING IT IN ITS ABILITY TO ATTRACT A CREATIVE, DIVERSE LEADERSHIP. EACH OF US HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR HISTORY THAT WOULD PROBABLY MAKE US AN UNCONVENTIONAL CANDIDATE. YOU JUST MENTIONED WHAT MINE HAS BEEN. AND I THINK AS MUCH AS I'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN CHANGING THE DIALOGUE, I THINK MY COLLEAGUES ARE ALSO CHANGING THE DIALOGUE WITHIN MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES ABOUT MANY OTHER HUMAN CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN BARRIERS TO LEADERSHIP AND STILL ARE IN SOME WAYS. BUT THIS PARTY IS BREAKING THOSE FASTER THAN ANY OTHER PARTY.

Steve says THE TRICKY PART ABOUT ALL THIS RIGHT NOW, OF COURSE, AND JOE BIDEN IS LEARNING THIS AND PETER MacKAY AND ERIN O'TOOLE AND THE OTHERS RUNNING FOR THE CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP, IT'S REALLY HARD TO MOBILIZE INTEREST, PEOPLE, MONEY, GET ATTENTION, WHEN YOU REALLY CAN'T... YOU CAN'T HAVE POLITICAL EVENTS. MY GOODNESS, GLEN, YOU CAN'T EVEN SHAKE HANDS WITH ANYBODY. SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT BETWEEN NOW AND OCTOBER WHEN YOUR PARTY CHOOSES ITS LEADER?

Glen says YOU KNOW, I... ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SURPRISES MY FRIENDS... I HAVE TO HAVE A JOB, I'M WORKING IN AN INCREDIBLE GREEN SOFTWARE COMPANY THAT ARE DEVELOPING SOME AMAZING TECHNOLOGY. YOU AND I ARE EXPERIENCING HOW WE COMMUNICATE WHEN WE HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 2 METRES APART AND MORE. THERE'S A REALLY INTERESTING OPPORTUNITY FOR DIALOGUE, FOR LISTENING, FOR COMMUNICATION... I ALWAYS SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ONLY 22 OR 25,000 GREENS IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT'S HOW MANY MEMBERS WE HAVE. I'M GOING TO GUESS THERE'S A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND. AND SO PART OF THIS IS ALSO LISTENING. IT'S ALSO BUILDING. I MEAN, THIS ACTUALLY MAY HAVE A BIT OF A SILVER LINING IN IT FOR US.

Steve says IN OUR LAST 30 SECONDS HERE... YOU KNOW, YOU'VE LEFT POLITICS I THINK A COUPLE OF TIMES... AT LEAST A COUPLE OF TIMES IN THE PAST, AND YET... IT'S INTERESTING. YOU KEEP COMING BACK. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK POLITICS IS DISREPUTABLE AND A WASTE OF TIME, AND YET YOU KEEP COMING BACK. AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD TELL THEM WHY.

Glen says IT'S PUBLIC SERVICE AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN PUBLIC SERVICE. WHEN I WAS WORKING IN A HEALTH CENTRE, WORKING IN THE A.I.D.S. CRISIS WITH MARGINALIZED KIDS, I WAS DOING PUBLIC SERVICE. I WAS TRYING TO IMPROVE THE CONDITIONS OF MY COMMUNITY TO MAKE IT SAFE AND MORE LIVABLE FOR MORE PEOPLE, MORE PROSPEROUS. THE CANADIAN URBAN INSTITUTE, WHEN I WAS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY THAT YOU CAN CREATE THE CHANGE THAT'S MOST NEEDED IN YOUR SOCIETY AND CREATE THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF HOPE AND SAFETY AND PROSPERITY FOR PEOPLE. I DON'T THINK CONVENTIONAL POLITICAL PARTIES CAN DO THAT RIGHT NOW. I THINK THAT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME... NOT FOREVER... SERVICE IN THE GREEN PARTY IN THAT LEADERSHIP ROLE WILL ALLOW ME TO ACCELERATE WITH MY COLLEAGUES ENOUGH CHANGE FAST ENOUGH TO CHANGE... ONE OF THE THINGS WE MOST NEED TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS THE CLIMATE PATH WE'RE ON RIGHT NOW. THE OTHER THING THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME TO TAKE WHAT WE STARTED IN ONTARIO AND BUILD A GUARANTEED LIVABLE INCOME FOR ALL CANADIANS SO WE HAVE RESILIENCE FOR OUR FAMILIES AND OUR COMMUNITIES. THAT'S ALL ABOUT PUBLIC SERVICE. GUARANTEED LIVABLE INCOME HAS THE SAME OUTCOME AS WITH WORKING WITH STREET KIDS 30 YEARS AGO IN WINNIPEG. IT'S TAKING CARE OF YOUR FRIENDS, IT'S TAKING CARE OF YOUR NEIGHBOURS.

The caption changes to "Producer: Patricia Kozicka, @TrishKozicka."

Steve says GLEN MURRAY, WELCOME BACK TO POLITICS AND I'LL SEE YOU ON THE HUSTINGS WHATEVER THAT MEANS IN A COVID-19 ERA. THANKS FOR JOINING US ON TVO TONIGHT.

Glen says TO YOU AND YOUR LISTENERS, STAY SAFE AND LOVE EACH OTHER FROM 2 METRES APART. TAKE CARE.

Steve says TO YOU TOO.

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