Transcript: Options for Retirement Savings | Feb 07, 2020

Steve stands in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and purple tie. A wall screen behind him reads "The week in review."

Steve says "THE AGENDA" THIS WEEK SCANNED THE ECONOMIC INDICATORS FOR THE YEAR AHEAD. WE EXPLORED RECOMMENDATIONS TO OVERHAUL REGULATION OF CANADA'S DIGITAL ECOSYSTEM AND LOOKED AT EFFORTS TO HELP YOUTH LEAVING CARE ACCESS HIGHER EDUCATION. "THE AGENDA'S" WEEK IN REVIEW BEGINS ASKING HOW CANADIANS SAVE FOR RETIREMENT NEED AS MAJOR OVERHAUL.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A male guest speaks in the studio.

A caption on screen reads "D.I.Y. pensions: A good idea? Options for income."

The caption changes to "Michael Nicin. Co-Author, 'Improving Canada's Retirement Income System."

Michael is in his late thirties, with short brown hair and a short beard. He's wearing a gray suit, pale blue shirt and striped green tie.

He says WHEN PENSIONS WERE INTRODUCED BY BISMARCK IN GERMANY THEY WERE INTRODUCED AT AGE 65. PEOPLE TENDED TO DIE AT AGE 66, 67. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL CONCEPTION OF PENSION PLANS AND EVEN AS RECENTLY AS THE 1950s, 6S AND 70s IN CANADA WE WERE LIVING HALF AS LONG IN RETIREMENT AS WE ARE TODAY. RIGHT NOW WE'RE LIVING 20 YEARS PAST 65 ON AVERAGE AND WE SEE THAT NUMBER INCREASING. OVER THE EX NEXT 30 YEARS WE EXPECT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OVER THE AGE OF 80 TO TRIPLE.

The caption changes to "Caroline Cakebread. Canadian Leadership Congress."

Caroline is in her forties, with long wavy brown hair. She's wearing glasses, a blue sweater and a pendant necklace.

She says I WOULD LIKE TO STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THE WHOLE ALPHABET SOUP OF OPTIONS THAT THE AVERAGE CANADIAN IS FACED WITH COBBLING TOGETHER FOR THEIR RETIREMENT. WHETHER IT'S AN RRSP OR A TFSA.

Steve says THERE'S MORE? OAS, GIC, CPP. YOU GUYS LOVE YOUR ACRONYMS.

The caption changes to "Caroline Cakebread, @ccakebread."

Caroline says EXACTLY. AND I THINK STUDY AFTER STUDY, AND SURVEY AFTER SURVEY HAS SHOWN THAT, FIRST OF ALL, PEOPLE AREN'T CONTRIBUTING ON A REGULAR BASIS TO ANY OF THESE PROGRAMS. WHICH IS REALLY CRITICAL. PEOPLE NEED TO START SAVING IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND SECONDLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE NEED TO START UNDERSTANDING THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE VEHICLES AREN'T JUST INVESTMENT VEHICLES. THEY'RE VEHICLES THAT ALSO REQUIRE TAX ADVICE AS WELL. AND REAL FINANCIAL PLANNING AROUND BEYOND WHAT I THINK SOME OF THE OTHER PANELISTS HAVE TALKED ABOUT WHICH IS SIMPLY JUST INVESTMENT ADVICE.

The caption changes to "Jackie Porter. Carte Wealth Management Inc. @askjackieporter."

Jackie is in her early forties, with long straight dark brown hair. She's wearing glasses, a black blazer and an aubergine turtleneck.

She says RIGHT. AND TRUTHFULLY, THE REALITY IS EVEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE PUTTING MONEY IN INVESTMENT VEHICLES LIKE RRSPs AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE DON'T PAY ATTENTION OR SPEND TIME TALKING ABOUT, THEY'RE PUTTING IT IN INVESTMENT VEHICLES THEY'RE NOT PUTTING IT IN INVESTMENT VEHICLES THEY'RE PUTTING IT IN SAVINGS PLANS LET'S SAY HIGH INTEREST SAVINGS ACCOUNTS ARE KIND OF A MISNOMER BECAUSE IF THEY'RE EARNING 1 percent IT'S A LOT AND THEN THEY'LL PUT IT IN THERE AND NOT THINK ABOUT IT FOR ANOTHER YEAR. 60 percent OF CANADIANS ARE PUTTING THEIR MONEY IN A HIGH INTEREST CAT OR GIC AND NOT INVESTING THE MONEY EVEN WHEN IT'S AN INVESTMENT ACCOUNT LIKE AN RRSP.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says MICHAEL I KNOW AS YOU TEND TO AS THE NAME OF YOUR ORGANIZATION WOULD SUGGEST, YOU KNOW, THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE ON AGING, YOU TEND TO TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE AT THE CLOSER TO THE END OF THEIR LIVES THAN THE BEGINNING OF THEIR LIVES.

The caption changes to "Michael Nicin. National Institute on Aging. @RyersonNIA."

Michael says THAT'S WHERE WE START LOOKING AT IT BUT ALL THOSE PROBLEMS IF YOU HAVE THEM SAVING FOR RETIREMENT, YOUR HEALTH CARE YOUR PERSONAL WELL-BEING IT STARTS MUCH EARLIER. WHILE WE MIGHT BE DEALING WITH WITH A BULGE OF OLDER PEOPLE NOW THAT WON'T STOP WITH THE BABY BOOMER GENERATION. WE'RE HAVING FEWER CHILDREN, PEOPLE ARE LIVING LONGER. WE CAN EXPECT AN AGING POPULATION TO PERSIST IN CANADA. I THINK THE MESSAGE HAS TO RICOCHET DOWN TO YOUNGER CANADIANS.

Steve says HAVING SAID THAT, HOW DO YOU CONVINCE SOMEBODY WHO'S IN THEIR 20s WHO WILL HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME SAVING UP ENOUGH MONEY FOR RENT OR TO BUY A HOME OR MAY HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING THAT FIRST JOB THAT NOW IS ACTUALLY THE TIME TO START SAVING FOR YOUR RETIREMENT?

The caption changes to "Avoiding old-age poverty."

Michael says I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL AND THE LESSONS OF COMPOUND INTEREST IF NOTHING ELSE SET ASIDE MONEY. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION NOW. I THINK IN THIS CONTEXT OF BREAKING APART THE RETIREMENT INCOME SYSTEM IN CANADA WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD AS A NATION IN BEING PRUDENT AND MINDING OUR FINANCES. WE WEATHER THE RECESSION BETTER THAN MOST. SO I THINK WE HAVE THE ETHIC IN CANADA. AND ONE OF THOSE IS AUTOMATIC SAVINGS. YOU START TO HEAR MORE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THAT. CAN WE SET UP SYSTEMS AND GOVERNMENT MIGHT HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY IN HERE. WHERE WE COULD HAVE OFTEN SYSTEMS ARE OPT OUT SYSTEMS BUT WHERE WE DEVELOP A CULTURE WHERE SAVING AUTOMATICALLY FOR RETIREMENT BECOMES THE NORM.

Jackie says THAT HAS TO HAPPEN AND I DISAGREE WITH YOU I DON'T THINK WE'RE AS PRUDENT WHEN IT COMES TO SAVINGS AS WE USED TO BE NOT WHEN EVERY DOLLAR CANADIANS EARN THEY'RE LOSING 1 dollar 70 TO DEBT. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE DISCIPLINE THAT WE ONCE HAD. I THINK WE'RE BECOMING VERY, VERY COMFORTABLE WITH DEBT. AND GOING BACK TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, I THINK MANDATORY WORKPLACE FINANCIAL LITERACY PROGRAMS WOULD BE A REALLY GREAT PLACE. THAT'S ONE OF THE PLACES THAT PEOPLE GATHER AND THEY TYPICALLY HAVE, IF THEY'RE IN A WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY HAVE A SAVINGS PLAN SET UP ALREADY, SOMETIMES WHAT'S HAPPENING IS IT GETS SET UP BUT THE PROVIDER NEVER COMES BACK. AND GIVES FINANCIAL LITERACY...

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says CAN I JUST TALK ABOUT THAT. WE'RE HEARING A LOT ABOUT HIGH SCHOOL LITERACY TESTS YOU WANT SOMETHING IN THE WORKPLACE?

Jackie says RIGHT. BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY... THERE ARE COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT HAVE EMPLOYER-SPONSORED PLANS, RETIREMENT PLANS. THEY ARE SET UP. THE CLIENTS I DEAL WITH ARE FACED WITH MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT WHERE THEY SHOULD INVEST THEIR MONEY. THEY HAVE NO IDEA. THEY'RE NOT GETTING A LOT OF GUIDANCE FROM THE SUPPLIERS ON WHAT THEY SHOULD BE PUTTING THEIR MONEY IN. AND MAYBE AFTER THE PLAN IS SET UP THEY'RE KIND OF LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says ALEXEI HEAR ALL THE TIME PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THESE ACRONYMS EJECTED ABOUT IT A SECOND AGO AND IT'S ALL VERY COMPLICATED. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THROUGH ALL THAT?

The caption changes to "Alex Mazer. Common Wealth."

Alex is in his late thirties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt and black tie.

He says THERE IS ONE NOBEL PRIZE WINNER WHO CALLED RETIREMENT THE NASTIEST PROBLEM IN FINANCE. AND WE HAVE A SYSTEM WE EXPECT PEOPLE TO NAVIGATE IT ON THEIR OWN. WE NEED TO SET UP AUTOMATIC PATHWAYS WHERE DECISIONS ARE MADE FOR THEM THAT PUT THEIR INTERESTS FIRST. THAT PART'S IMPORTANT AS WELL.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with different guests.

A caption on screen reads "Calibrating economic prospects for 2020. The American economy in an election year."
Then, it changes to "Canada's financial fortunes."

Steve says BRETT, I WONDER IF YOU COULD GET US STARTED IN A BIT OF A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ECONOMIC AND FINANCIAL FACTORS YOU SEE OUT THERE AFFECTING THE CANADIAN ECONOMY OVER THE REST OF 2020 AND PERHAPS WHAT YOU SEE... NO PUN INTENDED HERE... IN THE PIPELINE TO HELP US DEAL WITH SOME OF THAT.

The caption changes to "Brett House. Scotiabank."

Brett is in his forties, balding, with a trimmed beard. He's wearing rounded glasses, a gray suit, pale blue shirt and dark blue tie.

He says WELL, I THINK THE MOST SALIENT THING RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE SAW A LOT OF WEAKNESS AT THE END OF 2019 WHERE OUR MODELS ARE TRACKING ZERO GROWTH IN THE FOURTH QUARTER OF LAST YEAR. IN A VERY SOFT END INTO THIS YEAR. AND THAT LEADS US TO THINK THAT THE BANK OF CANADA WHICH HAS REALLY RESISTED EASING MONETARY POLICY... ONE OF THE FEW MAJOR CENTRAL BANKS THAT HAS... IS PROBABLY GOING TO MOVE TOWARD A COUPLE INSURANCE RATE CUTS THIS YEAR. THE WORRY IS WITH INCREDIBLY INDEBTED HOUSEHOLDS THAT THAT'S GOING TO TRIP OFF EVEN MORE BORROWING. AND THE FACT IS THAT HORSE HAS ALREADY LEFT THE BARN IN SOME WAYS. WE SAW A HUGE INCREASE IN MORTGAGE BORROWING RATES. AND THEN AT THE END OF THE YEAR, CONSUMER BORROWING. AND, YOU KNOW, IN MANY WAYS THAT REFLECTS THE POINT THAT YOU MADE THAT, YOU KNOW, CAPITAL MARKETS HAVE ALREADY BROUGHT INTEREST RATES DOWN. PARTICULARLY THE SORT OF FIVE-YEAR TERM THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT FOR MORTGAGES. BUT VERY SHORT-TERM RATES REMAIN A BIT HIGHER. AND SO IF THE BANK OF CANADA WERE TO BRING INTEREST RATES DOWN, THAT WOULD DRIVE A LITTLE MORE CUSHION FOR BUSINESS WHICH IS REALLY BUFFETED BY ALL THE UNCERTAINTY AROUND TRADE, BREXIT, CORONAVIRUS. AND MAKE IT A BIT EASIER FOR THE BUSINESSES TO FUND THEMSELVES AT THE SHORT END.

Steve says BRIAN WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caption changes to "Brian Milner. Freelance Economics Writer."

Brian is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt and patterned gray tie.

He says I THINK THAT'S TRUE. AND I THINK, ALSO, THAT WE SHOULD BE AWARE THAT THE CANADIAN ECONOMY IS NOT PERFORMING EVENLY ACROSS ALL THE PROVINCES. WE SEE GOOD PROSPECTS FOR CONTINUED GROWTH IN B.C., QUEBEC WELL. BUT NOT IN PLACES LIKE ALBERTA AND SASKATCHEWAN WHERE THEY CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS PLAGUING RESOURCES AND PLAGUING SHIPMENT OF OIL. AND THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says LYNN DASH EVEN... YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY ONTARIO. YOU REALLY HAVE TO SAY TORONTO AND OTTAWA. TORONTO AREA AND OTTAWA. THE REST OF THE PROVINCE IS CERTAINLY NOT ENJOYING THE KIND OF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS WE'RE SEEING HERE.

The caption changes to "Linda Nazareth. Macdonald-Laurier Institute. @relentlesseco."

Linda is in her late forties, with shoulder-length straight black hair. She's wearing a gray blazer and a pale pink blouse.

She says AND YOU KNOW I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT TORONTO WILL DO WELL IF THE U.S. ECONOMY GOES DOWN. WE ARE ALREADY HEARING THAT AUTO PRODUCTION IS BEING AFFECTED BY THE CORONAVIRUS AND APPO AND OTHER THINGS. THAT WAS PART OF THE ECONOMY, TOO. CANADA IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS I DON'T THINK WE CAN TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED.

Steve says I THINK GROWTH RATES IN CANADA, ONTARIO LESS THAN 2 percent, RIGHT? SINCE WHEN WAS THAT CONSIDERED TERRIFIC?

The caption changes to "Brett House, @BrettEHouse."

Brett says IT'S NOT. YOU KNOW, IT'S A KIND OF MYTH ECONOMY BUT IT'S ALSO NOT A RECESSION. YOU HAVE HAD PEOPLE SOUNDING THIS RECESSION ALARM FOR SIX OR SEVEN YEARS SAYING WE'RE ON THE EDGE OF IT AND THEY'VE BEEN CONSISTENTLY WRONG. AND IT'S FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. ONE IS THAT YOU HAVE HAD THAT CONCERTED POLICY SUPPORT BOTH FROM FISCAL AND MONETARY AUTHORITIES. AND, YOU KNOW, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FINANCES OF THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD IN THE U.S. AND THE AVERAGE BUSINESS, THEY'RE IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN BUFFETED BY ALL THE UNCERTAINTY FROM WHITE HOUSE TRADE POLICY BUT THE FACT REMAINS WE BENEFIT FROM BEING RIGHT BESIDE THE UNITED STATES, IT BEING OUR BIGGEST TRADING PARTNER AND GENERALLY FOR EVERY PERCENTAGE POINT OF GROWTH THAT YOU GET IN THE U.S. WE GET ABOUT HALF A PERCENTAGE POINT HERE BECAUSE OF THE DEMAND FOR GOODS AND SERVICES.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP ON THAT WE NOW HAVE NAFTA 2.0 OR U-SMACKA. WHAT'S THE ONE THAT STARTS WITH WHEN WE PUT CANADA FIRST?

Another female guest says CUSMA.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says SOME OF THESE ACRONYMS GET A LITTLE RIDICULOUS. DO WE HAVE AN OF ANY EXPECTATION NOW THAT THE DEAL IS SIGNED AND DONE THAT IT WILL BE A NET POSITIVE IMPROVEMENT TO THE ECONOMY?

The caption changes to "Elena Cherney. The Wall Street Journal. @ElenaCherney."

Elena is in her forties, with long straight auburn hair. She's wearing a cream blazer and a printed black blouse.

She says I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION MARK. REALLY WHAT PERHAPS THE BANK OF CANADA IS WAITING TO SEE IS WHETHER THERE'S BUSINESS INVESTMENT THAT FOLLOWS AND WHETHER THIS PERIOD OF UNCERTAINTY ENDS. WHETHER AT LEAST IN THE IMMEDIATE THAT THIS IS ENOUGH OF A STRONG ENOUGH AGREEMENT, A GOOD, POSITIVE ENOUGH AGREEMENT THAT COMPANIES START TO ONCE AGAIN INVEST.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A male guest speaks in the studio.

A caption on screen reads "Regulating Canada's digital future. Rethinking the C.R.T.C."
Then, it changes again to "Peter Menzies. Former C.R.T.C. Vice-Chair."

Peter is in his fifties, balding, with a trimmed beard. He's wearing glasses and a striped blue shirt.

He says THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR CHANGE IS INCUMBENT UPON THOSE ADVOCATING FOR IT. I AGREE THAT IT'S A VERY DISRUPTIVE TIME FOR MEDIA. I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE GENUINE ISSUES AROUND ACCESS TO ONLINE ADVERTISING AND HOW THAT WORKS INTERNATIONALLY, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD BE... THAT THE SOLUTIONS THAT SHOULD BE TARGETED SHOULD BE THOSE LOOKING AT SUPPORTING THE NEXT THING, NOT THE LAST THING. I MEAN THIS IS A TIME... THE INTERNET IS A TIME OF INCREDIBLE CHANGE. SO I MEAN TO USE AN ANALOGY I HAVE BEEN USING LATELY THIS IS LIKE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE AUTOMOBILE. IT MADE A HUGE CHANGE TO THE INDUSTRIAL INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE WORLD IN TERMS OF THAT. BUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS TO SUPPORT HORSE AND CARRIAGES, RIGHT? WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING IS SUPPORTING THE NEW WORLD NOT THE OLD WORLD.

Steve says OKAY. LET ME GET M IN HERE. YOU ARE PART OF THE NEW WORLD, GO AHEAD, YOU RESPOND.

The caption changes to "Murad Hemmadi. The Logic. @muradhem."

Murad is in his thirties, clean-shaven, with short black hair. He's wearing glasses, a pink plaid suit and a gray tie.

He says I ACTUALLY, THAT ANALOGY, I JUST WANT TO PICK UP ON. BECAUSE... AND TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT JANET WAS SAYING EARLIER ABOUT SORT OF THE CRTC MEETING TO BE FORWARD-LOOKING AND SEEING THE CHANGE THAT'S COMING. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WITH AUTOMOBILES IS THAT CITIES CHANGED MUNICIPAL POLICY. THINGS LIKE ZONING LAWS AND BASICALLY RIPPED UP WHAT HAD BEEN MORE SORT OF PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY AREAS TO ALLOW CARS IN. NOW WE'RE SEEING LIKE THE REVERSAL OF THAT. I WON'T BELABOUR THIS ANALOGY FOR MUCH LONGER. BUT THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, SEEING WHAT'S AROUND THE CORNER IS THE SORT OF BASIC PROBLEM OF ALL POLICY MAKING. A YEAR AGO, IF YOU TOLD ME THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS GOING TO BE A BURDEN... A SHORT VIDEO APP THAT THE WASHINGTON POST IS ON TIK-TOK THAT IS GOING TO SHOW UP ALL OVER THE INTERNET AND SORT OF TAKE OVER YOUTH CULTURE, I MEAN I DON'T THINK WE COULD HAVE PREDICTED THAT. SHOULD THE CRTC OR WHATEVER VERSION WE HAVE NEXT IS THE CRTC GOING TO SEE TIK-TOK COMING? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT. PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY DIDN'T. AND IT'S JUST... THE IDEA THAT WE CAN MAKE RULES FOR A FUTURE WE CAN'T SEE, THAT ARE BASED ON OLD RULES... I THINK PETER MAKES A VALID POINT. BUT I THINK HE IS SORT OF TAKING THE WRONG LESSON FROM IT. IT IS HARD TO MAKE POLICY ABOUT THE FUTURE. I DO THINK WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REALITIES THAT WE HAVE NOW. AND, YEAH, I WORK FOR A PUBLICATION THAT HAS A SUBSCRIPTION MODEL. A VERY OLD SCHOOL THING APPLIED TO THE INTERNET. WE'RE DOING IT IN U.S. BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT IS. YOU KNOW, THESE EXPERIMENTS ARE BEING CONDUCTED FOR SURE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE SEEING THIS DIE OFF... AND THERE IS A GAP BEING CREATED. THOSE NEWSPAPERS AREN'T ALL BEING REPLACED BY COMMUNITY VERGES OF THE LOGIC.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."
Then, it changes again to "Janet Yale. Broadcasting and Telecommunications Legislative Review Panel Chair."

Janet is in her sixties, with short wavy blond hair. She's wearing a red blazer, a black blouse and a silver necklace.

She says CAN I JUST MAKE ONE QUICK COMMENT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THE NEED FOR A MIND SHIFT ON THE PART OF USERS. JUST AS WHEN IT BECAME POSSIBLE ONLINE TO START STREAMING MUSIC AND PEOPLE DIDN'T WOULD BY COMPENSATION FOR THE ARTISTS AND THE CREATOR WHO IS CREATED THE MUSIC WE THEN SAID FOR SURE THE BUSINESS MODELS ARE ADAPTING AND THAT'S A GREAT THING BECAUSE THAT'S HOW TECHNOLOGY AND ADVANCEMENT WORKS. BUT WE STARTED TO REALIZE THAT IT'S NOT FAIR NOT TO COMPENSATE THEM FOR THE USE OF THEIR CREATIVE CONTENT.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."
Then, it changes again to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Janet continues THAT'S THE POINT WE'RE MAKING WITH NEWS. AND I THINK THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN THEY'RE POSTING THOSE NEWS STORIES ON FACEBOOK, THEY'RE NOT ENSURING THAT THE GENERATORS OF THAT NEWS, THE JOURNALISTS, THE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, THEY'RE NOT BEING COMPENSATED. AND SO OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT AND IT REQUIRES PEOPLE TO START UNDERSTANDING THAT JUST AS MUSIC AND TV HAVE, YOU KNOW, COPYRIGHT IN THEM, SO, TOO, DOES NEWS. AND WE HAVE TO START TO RESPECT THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE OUR PROPOSAL FOR HOW TO ENSURE THERE'S COMPENSATION WE'RE OPEN TO THINKING ABOUT OTHER WAYS, WE THINK THAT THE ONE WE'VE COME UP WITH DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH THE BUSINESS MODELS OF THE FUTURE. AND IT'S FLEXIBLE AND ADAPTABLE TO CHANGE.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A female guest speaks in the studio.
A caption on screen reads "A future for foster kids. Living in care."
Then, it changes to " The caption changes to "Rebekah Jacques. Child Welfare Political Action Committee Canada."

Rebekah is in her thirties, with straight dark brown hair in a short bob. She's wearing glasses, a black jacket, white blouse and silver pendant necklace.

She says I'M FROM THE METIS NATION OF ONTARIO. AND WHEN I WAS IN FOSTER CARE, MY FOSTER HOMES WERE FILLED WITH FIRST NATIONS CHILDREN.

Steve says WHERE WERE YOU IN FOSTER CARE?

Rebekah says IN NORTHERN ONTARIO.

Steve says OKAY. AND HOW MANY KIDS WOULD YOU HAVE TYPICALLY BEEN WITH?

The caption changes to "Rebekah Jacques, @ChildWelfarePAC."

Rebekah says IT WAS A TYPICAL FOSTER FARM. WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT IS MORE THAN FOUR CHILDREN.

Steve says I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THAT EXPRESSION BEFORE, A FOSTER FARM?

Rebekah says MORE THAN FOUR KIDS.

Steve says MORE THAN FOUR CHILDREN.
AND WERE YOU HOW OLD AT THE TIME?

Rebekah says I WAS IN AND OUT OF FOSTER CARE BECAUSE I WOULD GO BACK TO MY BIOMOM OR BIOLOGICAL MOM. SO THAT RANGED FROM BEING... I EVENTUALLY WAS ADOPTED AROUND THE AGE OF 3 OR 4. MY ADOPTIVE PARENTS WHO WERE MY FOSTER PARENTS DON'T REALLY RECALL THE TIME I THINK BECAUSE THE TRANSITION BETWEEN BEING A FOSTER PARENT AND THEN BEING AN ADOPTIVE PARENT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AS ABRUPT AS, SAY, SOMEONE DROPS A KID OFF AT YOUR HOUSE AND YOU JUST ADOPTED. AND SO MY EXPERIENCE IN THAT SITUATION WAS JUST A FEELING OF OTHERING. AND SO I FELT THAT I WAS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE CHILDREN OF MY ADOPTIVE PARENTS.

Steve says YOUR FOSTER PARENTS WERE NOT METIS, THEY WERE NOT INDIGENOUS.

Rebekah says MY ADOPTED FATHER IS METIS.

Steve says HE IS. AS YOU LOOK BACK ON IT ALL THESE YEARS LATER, REASONABLY GOOD EXPERIENCE, REASONABLY BAD EXPERIENCE? WHAT?

Rebekah says IT WAS NOT A FAVOURABLE EXPERIENCE. THE FEELING OF OTHERING IS REALLY ISOLATING. IT ADDS TO THE LONELINESS OF MY CHILDHOOD.

Steve says THE FEELING OF OTHERING MEANING WHAT?

Rebekah says THAT YOU'RE DIFFERENT. THAT YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY PART OF THIS FAMILY BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A BIOLOGICAL CHILD, FOR EXAMPLE.

Steve says HMM.

Rebekah says SO YOU FEEL DIFFERENT. IT'S EITHER VERY IMPLICIT OR EXPLICIT. THE WAY THAT YOU'RE TREATED COMPARED TO THE OTHER CHILDREN, THE OTHER BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN OF THE ADOPTIVE PARENTS. AND SO YOU CARRY THAT WITH YOU. KIND OF LIKE AN INVISIBLE BACK PACK. YOU CARRY THAT WEIGHT OF LONELINESS. AND THEN OVER TIME AS YOU DEVELOP YOUR OWN VOICE AND YOU CREATE YOUR OWN COMMUNITY, YOU CAN FEEL LESS LONELY.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says I WAS GOING TO ASK: DO YOU STILL FEEL IT?

Rebekah says YES.

Steve says YOU DO? BUT YOU'RE A HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL PERSON THESE DAYS.

Rebekah says THAT'S RIGHT. I FEEL REALLY HAPPY, CONTENT WITH A DREAM THAT I HAD WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER. BUT IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO PROCESS THIS. BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY SUPPORT. I DIDN'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO SHOW ME HOW TO GET RID OF THE STIGMA OF BEING A FOSTER CARE KID. HOW TO GET RID OF THAT FEELING OF OTHERING. SO FOR ME IT TOOK A LONG TIME TO PROCESS THAT. AND I STILL AM GOING THROUGH THAT.

Steve says OKAY. THANKS FOR TALKING ABOUT IT.

He turns to face a blond female guest and says YOU READY?

She says SURE.

Steve says I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND. YOU ENDED UP IN CARE.

She says I DID.

Steve says HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

The caption changes to "Jane Kovarikova. Child Welfare Political Action Committee Canada."

Jane is in her late thirties, with straight long blond hair. She's wearing a black blazer, a red sweater and a pendant necklace.

She says YEAH. SO MY FAMILY WERE ESCAPING THE HORRORS OF COMMUNISM. SO THEY CAME TO CANADA FOR A BETTER LIFE.

Steve says THEY WERE FROM CZECHOSLOVAKIA?

Jane says YEAH, CZECHOSLOVAKIA AT THE TIME, CZECH REPUBLIC NOW, OF COURSE. AND I WAS BORN HERE. BUT I WAS RAISED WITHIN THEIR HOME SO I SPOKE ONLY CZECH AT HOME. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY EXPOSURE TO CANADIAN CULTURE AT ALL.

Steve says YOU LIVED IN SOUTHERN ONTARIO BUT YOU WEREN'T SPEAKING ENGLISH.

Jane says THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says YOU WERE HOW OLD WHEN YOU LEARNED ENGLISH?

The caption changes to "Jane Kovarikova, @ChildWelfarePAC."

Jane says PROBABLY SIX OR SEVEN. AND THAT'S AROUND THE TIME THAT WE GOT PULLED INTO CARE. AND THEY NEEDED ME TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK IN ENGLISH TO SAY WHAT WAS GOING ON AT HOME. I GOT AN ENGLISH TEACHER AND A SPEECH THERAPIST. I GOT PULLED INTO A FOSTER HOME OUTSIDE MY COMMUNITY. I WAS SENT TO ANOTHER CITY FOR FOSTER CARE. AND OF COURSE THE FOSTER HOME WASN'T MY CULTURE AND IT WASN'T MY LANGUAGE. BUT I UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE NEWCOMER EXPERIENCE EVEN THOUGH I WAS BORN HERE.

Steve says DID YOU GET THAT FEELING OF OTHERING THAT WE JUST HEARD DESCRIBED?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Jane says YES, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY QUITE COMMON. SO YOU'RE ALWAYS PARTICIPATING IN OTHER PEOPLE'S FAMILY LIVES. SO YOU'RE OF W THEM SORT OF HAVE THEIR FAMILY LIFE AND YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHERE YOU FIT IN THAT. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT OF POLICIES THAT DISADVANTAGE FOSTER CHILDREN THROUGH AN ATTACHING TO THAT HOME. BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS THIS PUSH TO RETURN THEM TO THEIR ORIGINAL FAMILY. AND IF YOU'RE BOUNCING SORT OF BACK AND FORTH YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW WHERE YOU FIT, RIGHT? AND THEN THE OTHER POLICIES ARE THINGS LIKE RESPITE FOR FOSTER PARENTS IS HIGHLY ENCOURAGED AND THAT CAN BE TAKEN MANY WAYS AND I AGREE THAT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE PROCESS. BUT IN PARTICULAR THAT TRANSLATES SOMETIMES TO OH, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO GO ON HOLIDAY AND OFTEN TIMES THE ORIGINAL CHILDREN ARE INCLUDED. AND THEN THE FOSTER CHILDREN GO TO OTHER FOSTER HOMES AS AN EXAMPLE.

The clips end and Steve stands in the studio alone.

He says AND THAT'S JUST SOME OF WHAT WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON "THE AGENDA." FOR MORE, INCLUDING THE FULL VERSIONS OF EACH OF THOSE, YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE THAT'S tvo.org. OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT youtube.com/theagenda OR OUR TWITTER FEED THAT'S twitter.com/TheAgenda.

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