Transcript: Toronto's Risky Roads | Nov 05, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, spotted blue tie, and a red poppy pin.

A caption on screen reads "Toronto's risky roads. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says ANYONE WITH EVEN
PASSING EXPERIENCE NAVIGATING
THE STREETS OF ONTARIO'S CAPITAL
CITY KNOWS, IT'S ROUGH OUT
THERE.
CARS RUNNING RED LIGHTS,
SPEEDING, TAILGATING.
PEDESTRIANS DASHING INTO THE
ROAD AT EVERY TURN.
AND OF COURSE, THE ONGOING
TENSIONS BETWEEN CYCLISTS AND
MOTORIZED VEHICLES SHARING THE
ROAD.
IT'S NOT ONLY STRESSFUL BUT
ALSO, TOO OFTEN DEADLY.
WHAT'S GOING ON?
LET'S ASK:
WARREN WILSON, HE IS AN
INSPECTOR WITH THE TORONTO
POLICE SERVICE TRAFFIC SERVICES UNIT...

Warren is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short, receding blond hair. He's wearing glasses, a white police uniform shirt and a black tie.

Steve continues LINDA ROTHMAN, ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH AT
RYERSON UNIVERSITY AND ADJUNCT
SCIENTIST AT SICK KIDS...

Linda is in her mid-fifties, with long straight brown hair. She's wearing a black blazer and a red poppy pin.

Steve continues SHOSHANNA SAXE, ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR IN THE NEW UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO'S DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL
AND MINERAL ENGINEERING...

Shoshanna is in her thirties, with long curly brown hair. She's wearing a black leather jacket and a red poppy pin.

Steve continues CHRISTINE WICKENS, INDEPENDENT
SCIENTIST WITH THE INSTITUTE FOR
MENTAL HEALTH POLICY RESEARCH AT
CAMH, THE CENTRE FOR ADDICTION
AND MENTAL HEALTH...

Christine is in her late thirties, with shoulder-length straight brown hair. She's wearing a pale pink blazer, black blouse, pendant necklace and red poppy pin.

Steve continues AND AMANDA O'ROURKE, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR WITH THE NON-PROFIT 880 CITIES.

Amanda is in her forties, with shoulder-length straight brown hair. She's wearing a black blazer and shirt, a pendant necklace and a red poppy pin.

Steve continues WE'VE GOT A LOT OF EXPERTISE
AROUND THIS TABLE TODAY AND I'M
DELIGHTED TO SAY FIVE FRESH NEW
VOICES ON THIS PROGRAM.
NONE OF YOU HAVE BEEN ON THIS
PROGRAM BEFORE, RIGHT?

Several guests say NO.

Steve says DELIGHTED TO HAVE
YOU HERE.
LET US START.
SHELDON, DO YOU WANT TO BRING
THIS GRAPHIC UP AND I'LL
DESCRIBE THIS FOR THOSE
LISTENING ON PODCAST.
THIS IS A MAP THAT BASICALLY
SHOWS THE 416.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Toronto traffic deaths."

It shows a satellite view of Toronto, peppered with purple, orange and yellow squares representing motorcyclist, motorist and pedestrian deaths spread out relatively evenly throughout the city.

Steve reads data from the slate and says
THIS IS THE CITY OF TORONTO.
AND THESE ARE WHERE THE
PASSENGER DEATHS... EXCUSE ME,
WHERE THE TRAFFIC DEATHS HAVE
HAPPENED IN THE CITY SO FAR, AND
2019 IS NOT OVER YET.
THE PURPLE DOTS ARE THE
MOTORCYCLISTS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT COLOUR IS
THAT.
SALMON DOTS ARE THE MOTORISTS.
AND THE YELLOW DOTS OR
GREENISH-YELLOW DOTS ARE
PEDESTRIANS.
AND AS WE CAN SEE FOR THOSE OF
YOU WHO CAN SEE, THERE ARE WAY
TOO MANY DOTS ON THIS MAP.
THERE ARE FAR TOO MANY
FATALITIES ON THIS MAP.
I JUST WANT TO GO AROUND THE
TABLE HERE AND GET YOUR SENSE OF
WHAT WE JUST SAW THERE.
SHOSHANNA, DO YOU WANT TO START
US OFF?
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW OF WHAT YOU
JUST SAW?

The caption changes to "Shoshanna Saxe. University of Toronto."
Then, it changes again to "Deadly streets."

Shoshanna says ITS A HORRIFYING
NUMBER OF DOTS.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE
REPRESENTS A PERSON AND WE
HAVE TO REMEMBER MUCH MORE THAN
CARS HIT PEOPLE, THEY HIT
THINGS.
SO THAT'S ONLY A SMALL PART OF
THE NUMBER OF COLLISIONS
HAPPENING IN OUR CITY.
THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY
COLLISIONS HAPPENING.

Steve says LINDA, 50 PEOPLE
HAVE DIED SO FAR THIS YEAR, 30
PEDESTRIANS.
WHEN YOU SEE THAT MAP, WHAT DO
YOU SEE?

The caption changes to "Linda Rothman. Sickkids."

Linda says I ALSO THINK ABOUT THE CYCLISTS THAT AREN'T
ON THAT MAP.
THERE PROBABLY HASN'T BEEN A
CYCLING FATALITY THIS YEAR.

Steve says ZERO SO FAR THIS
YEAR, THANKFULLY.

Linda says ZERO.
WE HAVE AN ISSUE THAT ALL OF US
ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT.
WE'VE GOT A CITY THAT WAS
DESIGNED FOR CAR TRAFFIC AND NOW
WE'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE
WALKING AND CYCLING AND BIKING
AND EVERYTHING ALL OVER THE CITY
AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO
MAKE THINGS SAFE FOR EVERYBODY
ON THE ROADWAYS.

Steve says WE DO.
CHRISTINE, YOUR VIEW?

The caption changes to "Christine Wickens. Centre for Addiction and Mental Health."

Christine says I LOOK AT IT AS A NEED TO MOVE FORWARD
AND TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO RESOLVE
A PROBLEM.
SO LOOKING AT IT FROM REALLY A
MULTIDISCIPLINARY PERSPECTIVE.

Steve says WARREN WILSON, WHAT
DO YOU SEE WHEN YOU SEE THAT MAP?

The caption changes to "Warren Wilson. Toronto Police Service."

Warren says THERE'S TOO MANY.
WE'RE WORKING HARD.
WE'RE DOING REALLY GOOD THINGS.
BUT THERE'S A LOT MORE WORK TO
DO.
I SEE THAT IT COVERS THE WHOLE
CITY.
IT'S OVERREPRESENTED IN SOME
PARTS, LIKE SCARBOROUGH, WHERE
WE'RE HAVING MORE, SOME TO DO
WITH ROAD DESIGN AND OTHER
ISSUES...

Steve says PEOPLE DRIVE FAST
OUT THERE TOO.

Warren says YEAH, THEY DO.
THERE'S LONG GAPS BETWEEN WHERE
PEOPLE CAN CROSSROADS, THE ROADS
ARE MORE OPEN, LEADS TO FASTER
DRIVING AND LEADS TO BIGGER
CONSEQUENCES, UNFORTUNATELY.
BUT I'LL TELL YOU, IT ALSO GIVES
US A LOT OF INFORMATION.
I LOOK AT IT THAT WAY FOR OUR
ANALYSIS OF IT, OUR... WE'RE
VERY STRATEGIC NOW IN HOW WE
DEPLOY OUR RESOURCES AND WE USE
THIS KIND OF INFORMATION.
WE STARTED A CAMPAIGN ON
PEDESTRIAN SAFETY.
A LOT OF THE INFORMATION WE
PROVIDED TO THE DIVISIONS THAT
ARE GOING TO BE HELPING US OUT
THERE DOING ENFORCEMENT GET THAT
INFORMATION FROM THESE KINDS OF
DATA.
SO IT'S TRAGIC, BUT IT'S PART OF
THE DISCUSSION, IS THAT IT
COVERS OUR WHOLE CITY AND
THERE'S A LOT.

Steve says WE WILL CONTINUE
THAT DISCUSSION.
AMANDA, JUST BEFORE WE GET YOU
TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, I THINK
EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO THE TORONTO
POLICE ARE.
THEY KNOW U OF T, RYERSON, SICK
KIDS, CAMH, THEY KNOW THESE
INSTITUTIONS.
THEY MAY NOT KNOW 880.

The caption changes to "Amanda O'Rourke. 8 80 Cities."

Amanda says WE'RE A NON-PROFIT
ORGANIZATION. WE BELEIVE
IF YOU BUILD A CITY OR AN
8-YEAR-OLD AND AN 80-YEAR-OLD,
YOU BUILD A BETTER CITY FOR
EVERYONE.
CHILDREN AND OLDER ADULTS ARE
NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY POOR ROAD
DESIGN.
SAFETY IS AN IMPORTANT TOPIC FOR
US.
I AGREE WITH MY FELLOW
PANELISTS, THIS IS FAR TOO MANY
DEATHS ON OUR STREETS AND ALL OF
THESE DEATHS ARE 100 percent
PREVENTABLE.
SO MUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP ON
THAT.
ALL OF THESE DEATHS ARE
PREVENTABLE.
REALLY?
YOU BELIEVE THAT?

Amanda says THAT IS WHAT VISION ZERO IS
ALL ABOUT.
VISION ZERO IS A FUNDAMENTALLY
DIFFERENT WAY OF VIEWING TRAFFIC
SAFETY AND IT'S SAYING THAT THE
ASPIRATION TO GET TO ZERO DEATHS
IS ACHIEVABLE AND I THINK IT'S
GREAT THAT THE CITY HAS
INITIATED THIS NEW PARADIGM FOR
OUR STREETS AND A NEW WAY TO
APPROACH IT, BUT WE WANT TO SEE
MORE ACTION ON ACTUALLY GETTING
THOSE FATALITIES DOWN BECAUSE
WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS ACTUALLY AN
INCREASE, NOT EVEN A LEVELING
OFF SINCE WE'VE INITIATED THE PROGRAM.

Steve says SHOSHANNA, WE'RE
OBVIOUSLY COMING TODAY FROM THE
BIGGEST CITY IN THE COUNTRY.
DO WE KNOW WHETHER OR NOT OTHER
BIG CITIES IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE
THINGS AS BAD AS WE APPARENTLY
DO HERE IN TORONTO?

Shoshanna says A LOT OF THE OTHER BIG CITIES
IN THE COUNTRY ARE WAY AHEAD OF
US ON MAKING DIFFERENT CHOICES
ON HOW THEY USE THEIR SPACE.
LIKE MY PANELISTS SAID, ALL OF
THIS IS PREVENTABLE.
IF WE BUILD OUR STREETS
DIFFERENTLY, WE'LL HAVE LESS
PEOPLE GETTING HIT BY DRIVERS.
SO WE'RE MAKING A CHOICE TO HAVE
OUR CITY BE LIKE THIS.

Steve says WE'RE MAKING A
CHOICE IN THE WAY WE HAVE
DESIGNED OUR CITY TO WORK.

Shoshanna says AND THE WAY WE CONTINUE TO
DESIGN IT.
IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT
HAPPENED TO US IN THE PAST, IT'S
CHOICES WE'RE MAKING RIGHT NOW.

Steve says OKAY.
LET'S JUST PUT THIS ON THE
RECORD HERE.
ACCORDING TO THE OECD'S
INTERNATIONAL TRANSPORT FORUM,
CANADA IS ONE OF ONLY SEVEN
INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS WHERE
PEDESTRIAN DEATHS ARE ON THE
RISE.
ONE OF ONLY SEVEN.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT... I MEAN,
YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT DESIGN.
MAYBE YOU CAN JUST SORT OF PUT A
LITTLE MORE FLESH ON THAT BONE.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE WAY WE
DESIGN THIS CITY THAT MAKES IT
SO DANGEROUS FOR PEDESTRIANS?

Shoshanna says WE PUT THE CAR FIRST.
SO PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE
WE'RE CHOOSING CARS OVER
CHOOSING PEOPLE.
IF WE MAKE ROADS WIDE, IF WE
MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE THERE'S FAST
LICENCE TO DRIVE, PEOPLE WILL
DRIVE FAST.
IT DOESN'T MATTER SO MUCH WHAT
THE POSTED SPEED IS.
WHEREAS IF WE MAKE WIDE
SIDEWALKS, IF WE MAKE BIKE
LANES, IF WE MAKE THE CROSSINGS
SHORTER WHERE PEDESTRIANS CROSS
THE STREET, FEWER PEOPLE GET
HURT.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says THUS THE IMPORTANCE
OF SMART DESIGN.

Shoshanna says EXACTLY.

Steve says GOT IT.
OKAY.
AMANDA, HOW ABOUT TORONTO
COMPARED TO OTHER CITIES IN THE
COUNTRY?
HOW ARE WE DOING?

The caption changes to "Amanda O'Rourke, @880Cities."

Amanda says COMPARED TO OTHER CITIES IN
THE COUNTRY, I MEAN, A LOT OF
THE BIG CITIES ARE EXPERIENCING
SIMILAR TRENDS, WHERE PEDESTRIAN
FATALITIES ARE INCREASING, AND
AS SHOSHANNA MENTIONED, IT'S
SORT OF A COMBINATION OF MORE
PEOPLE LIVING IN CITIES, SO WE
HAVE MORE PEOPLE WALKING,
CYCLING, RIDING TRANSIT AND
DRIVING THAN WE'VE HAD EVER
BEFORE, AND THERE'S A LOT MORE
INTERACTION BETWEEN THOSE
DIFFERENT USERS.
BUT OUR ROAD DESIGN IS VERY MUCH
FOCUSED ON TRAFFIC FLOW, AND
WHEN WE SAY TRAFFIC FLOW, THAT'S
REALLY CAR FLOW.
WE'VE BEEN PRIORITIZING FOR THE
LAST 80 YEARS THE FLOW OF CAR
TRAFFIC AND NOT PRIORITIZING THE
MOST VULNERABLE ROAD USERS,
WHICH ARE PEDESTRIANS AND
CYCLISTS.

Steve says WELL, LET ME PUT IT
THIS WAY: WE WERE NOT FORTUNATE
ENOUGH TO HAVE OUR CITY BE
DESIGNED 800 YEARS AGO LIKE MANY
EUROPEAN CITIES WHICH WERE NOT
DESIGNED FOR CAR TRAFFIC,
OBVIOUSLY.
SO HOW MUCH DOES THAT PUT US
BEHIND THE 8-BALL IN TERMS OF
TRYING TO CATCH UP TO WHERE
THEY'RE AT?

Amanda says I THINK DEFINITELY NORTH
AMERICAN CITIES HAVE A
PREDOMINANT SORT OF CAR-FOCUSED
INFRASTRUCTURE ON THEIR STREETS.
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF NORTH
AMERICAN CITIES HAVE HIGHWAYS
RUNNING RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE
OF THEIR DOWNTOWNS, WHICH IS NOT
WHAT YOU SEE IN A LOT OF
EUROPEAN CITIES.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER
THAT A LOT OF EUROPEAN CITIES
WERE INVADED BY THE CAR.
SO DESPITE THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE,
A LOT OF THEIR STREET
INFRASTRUCTURE BEING FOCUSED ON
PEDESTRIANS FROM THE BEGINNING,
THEY ACTUALLY HAD A HUGE CAR
INVASION, LIKE WE'VE HAD HERE,
AND NOW THEY'VE MADE CHANGES TO
ACTUALLY REORIENT TOWARDS
PEOPLE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THOSE
WONDERFUL PLAZAS THAT YOU SEE IN
IT COPENHAGEN AND IN UTRECHT AND
ALL THOSE LOVELY CITIES, THEY
USED TO BE CAR PARKING LOTS AND
THEY WERE RETRANSFORMED INTO
PLACES FOR PEOPLE AND THAT WAS A
DELIBERATE CHOICE TO SORT OF
BUILD ON WHAT SHOSHANNA WAS
SAYING, THAT WAS A DELIBERATE
CHOICE BY THE CITY
ADMINISTRATION AUGUST WE'RE
GOING TO PRIORITIZE PEOPLE AND
THEIR HEALTH AND WELL-BEING AND
GET SOME OF THE CARS OUT OF
THESE AREAS WHERE THERE'S A HIGH
NUMBER OF PEDESTRIANS AND
CYCLISTS USING THE STREETS.

Steve says AGAIN, GETTING BACK
TO DESIGN, YEAH.
SHOSHANNA?

Shoshanna says IF I CAN ADD TO THAT, A LOT
OF THAT HAPPENED REALLY FAST AND
REALLY RECENTLY.
EVEN COPENHAGEN, WHICH WE HOLD
UP AS THE EXAMPLE OF BIKING AND
PEOPLE-ORIENTED CITIES, THEY'VE
HAD A HUGE INCREASE IN THEIR
BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE IN JUST THE
LAST 10 YEARS.
LONDON IS THE SAME.
HELSINKI.
CITIES ALL OVER EUROPE HAVE MADE
THIS CHOICE VERY RECENTLY.

Steve says PLEASE, GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Linda Rothman, @SickKidsNews."

Linda says I JUST WANTED TO ADD TO WHAT
YOU SAID.
THE IMPORTANT PIECE OF
INFORMATION THAT'S MISSING FROM
APPS LIKE THAT ARE THE NUMBERS
OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY
WALKING AND CYCLING, AND YOU
MENTIONED IT.
WE'VE GOT A LOT MORE PEOPLE
WALKING AND CYCLING.
I REMEMBER BIKING DOWNTOWN 15
YEARS AGO AND HARDLY ANYONE WAS
ON A BIKE DOWNTOWN.
AND NOW THERE'S MASSES OF PEOPLE
ON BICYCLES, THERE'S MASSES OF
PEOPLE WALKING.
SO YOU PUT A LOT OF PEOPLE INTO
THESE ENVIRONMENTS THAT ARE MORE
CAR-FOCUSED.
THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES
IN MY JOB ANYWAYS THAT I HAVE TO
DEAL WITH... I'M SURE OTHER
PEOPLE HERE AS WELL... IS WE
DON'T HAVE ANY NUMBERS OF
PEOPLE.
LIKE, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
NUMBERS OF PEOPLE ARE WALKING.
SO WE DON'T KNOW ACTUALLY THOSE
INCREASES IN NUMBERS OF PEOPLE
GETTING HIT ARE THE RESULT OF
MORE PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREETS.

Steve says YOU DID SOME STUDIES
ON THIS, DID YOU NOT, ABOUT
WHERE THE ACCIDENTS WERE
HAPPENING?

Linda says WE DID.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT?

Linda says A LOT OF OUR RECENT RESEARCH
HAS BEEN ABOUT EQUITY IN THE
CITY, AND WHAT WE FOUND IS
ACTUALLY IT WAS A LITTLE BIT
OLDER DATA BECAUSE IT TAKES US A
WHILE TO GET DATA, BUT FROM 2008
TO 2015, THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN A
DECREASE IN PEDESTRIAN
COLLISIONS DURING THAT TIME,
2015.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MORE
RECENTLY.

Steve says IT'S GONE UP
RECENTLY, THOUGH.

Linda says YEAH.
WHEN WE LOOKED A LITTLE BIT MORE
CLOSELY AT IT, WE FOUND ACTUALLY
THE DECREASES WERE ONLY IN THE
HIGH-INCOME AREAS.
THIS IS IN ONTARIO, ACTUALLY.
THERE'S ACTUALLY INCREASES... I
THINK IT WAS A DECREASE IN 22 percent
IN COLLISION RATES, PEDESTRIAN
COLLISION RATES IN HIGH-INCOME
AREAS AND IT INCREASED BY 14 percent IN
THE LOW INCOME AREAS, IN KIDS.
SO WE'VE GOT REAL EQUITY
PROBLEMS AND PARTICULARLY IN THE
CITY OF TORONTO, IF YOU ACTUALLY
LOOK AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE
THAT'S BEING BUILT, ANOTHER ONE
OF OUR WORKS THAT WAS PUBLISHED
LAST YEAR FOUND THAT THERE'S WAY
MORE TRAFFIC CALMING IN HIGH
INCOME AREAS IN THE CITY OF
TORONTO.
IF YOU GO INTO THE LOW INCOME
AREAS, THERE ARE VIRTUALLY VERY
FEW SPEED HUMPS AND OTHER
DIFFERENT TYPES OF ROAD DESIGN.

Steve says SO THAT EXPLAINS IT?

Linda says WE'VE GOT TO START... VISION
ZERO IS ALL ABOUT EQUITY, IT'S
ALL ABOUT LOOKING AT DATA, IT'S
ALL ABOUT MAKING THINGS
DATA-DRIVEN.
SO WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT
THE REAL NUMBERS AND WHERE THE
NEEDS ARE, RATHER THAN THE
LOUDEST VOICE GETS THE SPEED HUMP.
IT IS A HUGE DEAL.

Steve says I KNOW EVERYBODY AT
THIS TABLE KNOWS WHAT VISION
ZERO IS BUT I'M NOT GOING TO
ASSUME THAT EVERYBODY OUT THERE
KNOWS WHAT IT IS.
DO YOU WANT TO TAKE 30 SECONDS
AND TELL US WHAT IT WAS?

Linda says IT WAS A MOVEMENT STARTED IN
SWEDEN APPROXIMATELY 30 YEARS AGO.
THE GOAL OF IT IS TO GET TO,
WHAT AMANDA SAID, ZERO
FATALITIES OR INJURIES.
IT'S LOOKING AT THE MORE SEVERE
END OF THE COLLISIONS.
OTHER COUNTRIES AND OTHER CITIES
HAVE ADOPTED IT.
AND HAVE HAD QUITE A BIT OF
SUCCESS WITH IT.
WE'RE RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF
THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW.
SO I KNOW WE'RE SEEING INCREASES
IN PEDESTRIAN FATALITIES RIGHT
NOW BUT WE'RE JUST GETTING GOING
ON IT.
WE'RE ON VISION ZERO 2.0 RIGHT
NOW.
A GOOD PART OF IT IS LOOKING AT
DATA AND ACTUALLY WHERE THE NEED
IS RATHER THAN JUST A REACTIVE
KIND OF THING DEPENDING ON THE
POLITICS OF THE NEIGHBOURHOOD OR
WHATEVER.
AND ALSO THE OTHER THING IS
THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO LOOK AT
EVIDENCE-BASED THINGS THAT WE
KNOW THAT WORK AND TRYING TO PUT
THOSE TYPES OF THINGS INTO THE
INFRASTRUCTURE RATHER THAN JUST
SOMETHING THAT'S CONVENIENT OR CHEAP.

Steve says I'VE GOT SOME EVIDENCE HERE I WANT TO INTRODUCE.
SHELDON, DO YOU WANT TO PUT THIS
UP HERE?
LET'S SHOW THIS VIDEO.
THIS IS... WELL, I THINK IT
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
THIS IS VIDEO OF SOME RATHER
AGGRESSIVE ROAD BEHAVIOUR RIGHT
HERE IN THE CAPITAL CITY OF ONTARIO.
DO WE HAVE THIS THAT WE CAN POP IN?
HERE'S SOMEBODY DRIVING ON THE SIDEWALK.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "October 31, 2019."
In the clip, a white car drives on a sidewalk with its blinkers on.

As the footage plays, a male voice says THIS GUY IS DRIVING UP ON THE SIDEWALK.

A child says ON THE GRASS.

The man says ON THE WRONG WAY OF TRAFFIC.

A female voice says GET THE LICENCE PLATE.

The man says M2.

The clip ends.

Steve says YOU KNOW, HOW
TYPICAL IS THAT?

Christine says MORE TYPICAL THAN I THINK ANY
OF US WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH FOR SURE.

Steve says THAT WAS WEIRD.
WHAT WE JUST SAW, THAT WAS VERY WEIRD.

The caption changes to "Christine Wickens, @CAMHNews."
Then, it changes again to "Traffic tantrums."

Christine says IT WAS VERY WEIRD.
I TEND TO LOOK AT IT PERHAPS A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY THAN
EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PANEL.
I THINK IN MANY WAYS IT'S
ENVIRONMENTALIST DESIGN OF THE
ROAD THERE.
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S MAJOR
CONGESTION.
I THINK THIS WAS AROUND SOME
CONSTRUCTION THAT'S GOING ON IN
THE CITY.
BUT ON TOP OF THAT, I LOOK AT IT
IN TERMS OF THE PSYCHOLOGY OF
THE DRIVER.
SO OFTEN PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING
TIME URGENCY, SO THE IDEA THAT
MAYBE WE WOULDN'T DO THESE KINDS
OF THINGS EXCEPT WE'RE IN A RUSH
TO GET TO A MEETING OR PICK UP A
CHILD AT DAY CARE.

Steve says THEY CLEARLY WEREN'T
ABOUT TO WAIT FOR THINGS TO KIND
OF ALLEVIATE THEMSELVES...

Christine says THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says SO THEY JUST DROVE
UP ONTO SOMEBODY'S FRONT LAWN
AND ONTO THE SIDEWALK.

Christine says WHICH IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

Steve says RIGHT.

Christine says I TEND TO LOOK AT WHAT IS
CAUSING THE DRIVER TO DO THIS.
IT'S OFTEN AN INTERPLAY OF
FACTORS.
IT'S DEFINITELY THE DESIGN.
IT'S DEFINITELY THE ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S TRAFFIC CONGESTION.
IT'S WHATEVER ELSE IS GOING ON
IN THEIR LIVES.
IT COULD BE A NUMBER OF
DIFFERENT PERSON-RELATED FACTORS
AS WELL.

Steve says WARREN, THE
ASSUMPTION IS, AND YOU CAN TELL
ME IF IT'S TRUE, THAT TORONTO
DRIVERS ARE THE WORST THAN
ANYWHERE IN THE PROVINCE BECAUSE
THEY ARE THE MOST IMPATIENT, THE
MOST GRID LOCKED, THE MOST
DEALING WITH CONSTRUCTION, THE
MOST OF EVERYTHING.
DO YOU HAVE EMPIRICAL DATA THAT
CONFIRMS THAT?

Warren says WELL, YEAH, WE DO, AND IT'S A
BIG PROBLEM AND WHAT WE JUST SAW
IS NOT UNCOMMON, AND I THINK YOU
CAN ADD TOO SOME OF THE CAUSES
IS THERE'S ANONYMITY I THINK
WITH PEOPLE DRIVING IN A CAR.
THEY CAN'T REALLY BE SEEN.

Steve says ESPECIALLY IF THE
WINDOWS ARE TINTED, WHICH IS
THERE'S MORE OF THAT NOW.

The caption changes to "Warren Wilson, @TorontoPolice."

Warren says YEAH.
AND I THINK PEOPLE JUST...
THEY'RE NOT AFRAID THAT THEY'RE
GOING TO GET STOPPED BY THE
POLICE AS MUCH AS THEY WERE AT
ONE TIME.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN
EXPECTATION THAT A POLICE
OFFICER IS GOING TO BE ON THAT
STREET AT THAT TIME, SO PEOPLE
THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING I'M
GOING TO DO.
I THINK YOU CAN CERTAINLY LOOK
AT THE CONSTRUCTION, THE
CONGESTION.
SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, CROSSTOWN
WITH TTC.
EVEN BIKE LANES ON WOODBINE
AVENUE HAS RESULTED IN A LOT OF
PEOPLE NOW DRIVING THROUGH THE
SIDE STREETS THERE THAT DIDN'T
BEFORE.
SO YOU HAVE THESE ROADS THAT ARE
NOT BUILT FOR THIS KIND OF
TRAFFIC, AND TRUCKS, AND AS A
RESULT, WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THIS
THAT TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES...
THIS IS THE KIND OF BEHAVIOUR
THAT WE'VE STARTED AN ONLINE
REPORTING SYSTEM, SO PEOPLE THAT
SEE THINGS LIKE THIS CAN TAKE
DOWN LICENCE PLATES AND PASS ON
THIS VIDEO.

Steve says WHEN THEY DO, WHAT HAPPENS?

Warren says IT GETS ASSIGNED TO SOMEBODY
AND GETS INVESTIGATED.
IF WE CAN LAY A CHARGE, IDENTIFY
A DRIVER, WE'LL DO THAT AND WE
HAVE DONE THAT.
IT ALSO INFORMS US, THOUGH,
WHERE PROBLEMS ARE HAPPENING.
SO WHERE WE CAN DIRECT RESOURCES
THERE, WE'LL DO IT.
SO WE NEED THE DETAILS AND THE
INFORMATION.
BUT, YEAH, IT'S STUPID, IT'S
DANGEROUS, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW,
IT'S ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND IT
HAPPENS A LOT IN TORONTO.

Steve says WHAT'S THE CRAZIEST
THING YOU EVER SAW?

Warren says GEEZ.
YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME YOU WERE
GOING TO ASK ME THAT.

[LAUGHTER]

Steve says WE DON'T REHEARSE
THIS SHOW, IN CASE YOU WERE CURIOUS.

Warren says NO, I MEAN, WE SEE A LOT OF
THIS DRIFTING HAPPENING NOW
WHERE PEOPLE JUST... THEY GET
TOGETHER AT A LOCATION AND
THEY... IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE OLD
STREET RACING, AND THEY ALL
STAND IN A CIRCLE AND THE CAR
WILL ACCELERATE AND DO THESE
DOUGHNUTS.
YOU COULD WIPE OUT A DOZEN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE ARE STANDING THERE AND
THEY PUT IT ONLINE AND IT'S PART
OF A FUN THING TO DO NOW.
THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF...

Steve says MY GOODNESS.

Warren says EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE DRIVING
LIKE THAT.

Steve says HOW, AMANDA, DID
THIS CITY BECOME SUCH AN
AGGRESSIVE PLACE FOR DRIVING?

Amanda says WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE
CITY IS GROWING UP, YOU KNOW?
WE'VE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL AT
THE CITY TO INCREASE POPULATION
DENSITY AND WE'VE PUT IN
PLANNING REGULATIONS THAT HAVE
INCENTIVIZED PEOPLE TO MOVE INTO
THE CITY.
WE'RE A GROWING POPULATION.
BUT OUR STREETS ARE THE SAME
SIZE THAT THEY WERE MANY YEARS
AGO.
SO WE HAVE TO BE SMARTER WITH
HOW WE USE OUR STREETS.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE KNOCKING
DOWN BUILDINGS AND STACKING UP
STREETS LIKE WE DID IN THE
1950s.
I THINK WE'VE LEARNED FROM THAT.
WE KNOW THAT WHEN WE BUILD
BIGGER STREETS, WE JUST GET MORE
CARS.
SO WE HAVE TO BE SMARTER WITH
HOW WE ALLOCATE SPACE.
AND WE KNOW FROM CITIES AROUND
THE WORLD THAT THE BEST WAY TO
IMPROVE MOBILITY FOR EVERYONE IS
TO INVEST IN BETTER WALKING,
BETTER CYCLING, BETTER PUBLIC
TRANSIT.
WHEN YOU'RE A CITY OF THIS SIZE,
THERE'S NO WAY THAT YOU'RE
ACTUALLY GOING TO MOVE PEOPLE,
AND THAT MEANS PEOPLE, NOT CARS,
MORE EFFICIENTLY WITHOUT MAKING
SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN ALL
OF THOSE THREE.
AND THERE'S NO CITY IN THE WORLD
THAT HAS BEEN ABLE TO IMPROVE
CONGESTION BY FOCUSING ON
EXPANDING WIDE ROADS LIKE THE
SIZE OF THE CITY OF TORONTO.

Steve says I SHOULD ASK YOU,
SHOSHANNA, THE SAME QUESTION:
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW AS TO WHY THERE
IS SO MANY... I DON'T KNOW IF
THEY'RE AWFUL DRIVERS BUT THERE
ARE CERTAINLY VERY AGGRESSIVE
DRIVERS IN THIS CITY.
WHAT'S YOUR THEORY ON THAT?

The caption changes to "Shoshanna Saxe, @shoshannasaxe."

Shoshanna says I AGREE THERE ARE A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE FRUSTRATED.
WE HAVE SOME OF THE WORST
TRAFFIC IN NORTH AMERICA, AND
SITTING IN TRAFFIC IS A
STRESSFUL AND UNPLEASANT
EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYBODY
INVOLVED.
BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK: WHY
DO WE HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC?
AND IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE LOTS OF
PEOPLE WHO NEED TO TRAVEL, AND
AT THE MOMENT, NOT THAT MANY
OPTIONS FOR THEM.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING FOR ABOUT A
DECADE IN THIS REGION: WHAT
SHOULD WE DO?
ARE WE GOING TO BUILD MORE HEAVY
RAIL TRANSIT?
ARE WE GOING TO DO MORE SURFACE
STREET TRANSIT LIKE DEDICATED
BUS LANES?
ARE WE GOING TO DO MORE BIKE
LANES?
AND WE'VE TALKED FOR A REALLY
LONG TIME.
THE QUESTION NOW IS WHAT ARE WE
ACTUALLY GOING TO DO AND WHAT
ARE WE GOING TO DO IN THE NEXT
TEN YEARS?
WE'RE GOING TO BUILD HEAVY ROAD
TRANSIT, IT LOOKS LIKE, BUT WHAT
ELSE ARE WE GOING TO DO?
HOW ARE WE GOING TO REALLOCATE
OUR STREETS, HOW ARE WE GIVING
PEOPLE THE MOST OPPORTUNITIES TO
MOVE?
PEOPLE WILLING TO TRAVEL BY
PUBLIC TRANSIT AND BIKE, IF THEY
CAN MAKE THE SWITCH, IT WILL BE
BETTER FOR EVERYBODY, INCLUDING
THE DRIVERS.
AND THE LAST THING A DRIVER
WANTS TO DO IS BE STUCK IN
TRAFFIC BEHIND FIVE CYCLISTS WHO
HAVE TO BE IN CARS BECAUSE THEY
HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Steve says I WANT TO BRING THE
BEHAVIOURAL ASPECT INTO THIS.
IF WE WERE SHOPPING AND MY
SHOPPING CART HIT YOU BY
ACCIDENT, WE BOTH WOULD
APOLOGIZE TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE
WE'RE CANADIANS.
EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT AT FAULT, YOU
APOLOGIZE.
IF WE WERE ON THE ROAD AND I
WERE TO CUT YOU OFF, WELL, YOU
WOULDN'T BECAUSE YOU'RE SUCH A
NICE PERSON, BUT THERE'S EVERY
POSSIBILITY THAT THE PERSON I
DID THAT TOO WOULD FLIP ME THE
BIRD OR GIVE ME THE FINGER OR
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY.
WHY SUCH DIFFERENT REACTIONS
CONSIDERING THE DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES?

Christine says AGAIN, I THINK PART OF IT
COMES FROM ANONYMITY, THE IDEA
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SEEN
SOMEWHERE ELSE, SO YOU DON'T
HAVE A BOSS OR A FRIEND OR A
PARENT LOOKING OVER YOUR
SHOULDER AND WATCHING HOW YOU
RESPOND TO THIS KIND OF
POTENTIALLY NEGATIVE EVENT ON
THE ROADS.
YOU REACT VERY BADLY.
I THINK PART OF IT TOO IS WE
ALWAYS MAKE THE ASSUMPTION IN
THE CAR THAT IT'S DELIBERATE OR
IT'S NEGLIGENT.
AND VERY RARELY DO WE STOP FOR A
MOMENT, TAKE A MOMENT AND THINK
ABOUT, WHAT ELSE COULD HAVE
CAUSED THAT EVENT?
SO PERHAPS IT WAS A CHILD IN THE
BACK SEAT OF THE CAR WHO
SUDDENLY GOT OUT OF THEIR SEAT
BELT.
PERHAPS THERE WAS A TIRE BLOWOUT
ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE CAR
THAT WE COULDN'T SEE.

Steve says MAYBE THEY JUST MADE
A MISTAKE.

Christine says MAYBE THEY JUST MADE A
MISTAKE.
AND WE OFTEN LOOK AT OUR OWN
BEHAVIOUR AND WE KNOW WE DON'T
DRIVE THAT WAY ALL THE TIME IF
WE MADE A MISTAKE.
WE CAN THINK HOW WE ARE
NORMALLY, WHAT KINDS OF GOOD
PEOPLE WE ARE, BUT WE DON'T FLOW
THAT ABOUT THE OTHER DRIVER AND
WE ASSUME THAT THE OTHER DRIVER
IS NEGLIGENT AND THEY'VE DONE IT
ON PURPOSE WITHOUT THINKING THAT
MAYBE THEY JUST MADE A MISTAKE
IN THAT MOMENT TOO.

Steve says GO AHEAD, LINDA.

Linda says I'M THINKING ALSO... WE'RE
BEING VERY SPOILED IN THIS
CONVERSATION IN THE SENSE THAT A
DRIVER'S A PEDESTRIAN, A
PEDESTRIAN IS A DRIVER, A
CYCLIST IS SOMETIMES A
PEDESTRIAN, SOMETIMES A DRIVER.
WE'RE TALKING A LOT OF THE TIME
ABOUT THE SAME PEOPLE.
SO WE NEED TO CAPITALIZE ON THAT
SOMEHOW, AND I'M NOT REALLY SURE
HOW TO DO IT.
YOU MAY HAVE SOME BETTER IDEAS.
BUT THAT DRIVER PROBABLY WALKED
THEIR KIDS TO THE PARK
YESTERDAY.
IT'S NOT LIKE... I MEAN, SOME
PEOPLE ONLY DRIVE, BUT I DON'T
THINK EVERYBODY ONLY DRIVES.

Steve says THEY'RE NOT WEARING
TWO HATS AT THE SAME TIME.
WHEN THEY ARE BEHIND THE WHEEL
OF A CAR, YOU'RE A DRIVER AND IN
A DIFFERENT MIND SET WHEN
DRIVING AS OPPOSED TO WALKING OR
CYCLING OR WHATEVER.
I SEE, CHRISTINE, WITH A LOT OF
THE NEW CARS, THEY HAVE ALL
SORTS OF, YOU KNOW, CAMERAS THAT
LOOK OUT THE BACK, CAMERAS THAT
LOOK AROUND THE SIDE, THEY'RE
SUPPOSED TO BE SAFETY FEATURES
THAT PRESUMABLY WOULD ALLOW YOU
TO HAVE FEWER ACCIDENTS IF YOU
AVAILED YOURSELF OF THOSE NEW
PIECES OF TECHNOLOGY.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE
THE IMPACT OF THIS?

Christine says THAT'S AN IMPORTANT QUESTION.
SO A LOT OF RESEARCHERS NOW ARE
LOOKING AT THE IMPACT OF ALL THE
BELLS AND WHISTLES IN THE CAR
AND SEEING IF THAT COULD
POTENTIALLY BE DISTRACTING YOU
FROM THE WORLD AROUND YOU.
AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT
QUESTION.
SO ARE ALL THE BELLS AND
WHISTLES AND THE BUTTONS, ARE
YOU NO LONGER PAYING ATTENTION
TO THE ROAD OR PERHAPS MAYBE
YOU'RE LULLED INTO A FALSE SENSE
OF COMFORT WHEN YOU REALLY
SHOULD BE PAYING MUCH MORE
ATTENTION TO THE THINGS AROUND YOU.

Steve says AMANDA, HOW ABOUT
THINGS LIKE APPS ON YOUR PHONE
THAT HELP YOU AVOID LOTS OF
TRAFFIC?
ARE THEY GOOD OR BAD FOR THIS
CONVERSATION?

Amanda says BEFORE I ANSWER THAT, I JUST
WANTED TO PICK UP ON THE
MISTAKES, STEVE.
I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE FACT
THAT HUMAN ERROR IS A
FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE
PRINCIPLES OF VISION ZERO.
SO RECOGNIZING THAT PEOPLE MAKE
MISTAKES IS A BIG PART OF THIS
IDEA WE CAN ACTUALLY PREVENT ALL
THE DEATHS ON OUR STREETS.
AND SO A SAFE SYSTEMS APPROACH,
WHICH IS WHAT VISION ZERO IS
ABOUT, IS SETTING UP A SYSTEM
WHERE, IF SOMEONE DOES MAKE A
MISTAKE, FIRST OF ALL,
PREVENTING... CREATING A DESIGN
THAT PREVENTS DANGEROUS DRIVING
BEHAVIOUR TO BEGIN WITH, AND
THEN WHEN THE MISTAKE HAPPENS,
ACTUALLY REDUCING THE CHANCE
THAT IT WILL RESULT IN DEATH OR
CATASTROPHIC EVENTS.
SO THAT'S A BIG PART OF THIS
CONVERSATION AND HAVING STREETS
THAT ARE SORT OF MORE FORGIVING
OF HUMAN ERROR.
IN TERMS OF THE APPS, THIS IS A
QUESTION THAT WE'VE HAD QUITE A
LOT, AND I THINK THE OVERALL
APPROACH HAS TO BE AROUND
REDUCING CAR DEPENDENCY AND CAR
TRIPS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS A
TRAFFIC CRASH ON THE 400-SERIES
HIGHWAYS, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC IS
DIVERTED TO THE ARTERIALS.
IF THERE IS SOMETHING ON THE
ARTERIALS, CONSTRUCTION, TRAFFIC
GETS DIVERTED TO THE RESIDENTIAL
STREETS.
SO THE BIGGER QUESTION IS: HOW
DO WE ACTUALLY REDUCE THE NUMBER
OF CAR TRIPS AND ENCOURAGE MORE
ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION?
BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT
WE'LL ACTUALLY REALLY MAKE SOME
SIGNIFICANT MOVEMENT ON REDUCING
FATALITIES.

Steve says GOTCHA.
I WANT TO READ THIS TWEET HERE,
OKAY?
SHELDON, WE'RE GOING TO BRING
THIS UP HERE?
WARREN, I'M GOING TO GET YOU TO
COMMENT ON THIS FIRST.
HERE WE GO.
THIS IS A GUY NAMED AIDAN CRANE
WHO PUTS ON TWITTER...

A tweet by Aidan Crane pops up that reads "I hardly ever see police enforcing traffic rules. Maybe if it was typical to see a few cars pulled over every time you take a drive it might improve. But they're mostly leaving the street to the public menaces."

Steve says HOW WOULD YOU
RESPOND TO SOMEBODY LIKE AIDAN
WHO PUT THAT TWEET UP THERE?

The caption changes to "Enforcement."

Warren says WELL, IT IS FRUSTRATING.
WE HAVE ISSUED OVER 200,000
TICKETS THIS YEAR.
WE'RE NOT DOING NO ENFORCEMENT.
WE'RE DOING LESS THAN WE HAVE IN
THE PAST.

Steve says DOES THAT INCLUDE
PARKING VIOLATIONS, THAT TYPE OF THING?

Warren says NO, TALKING ABOUT MOVING VIOLATIONS.

Steve says GOT IT.

Warren says HOWEVER, I DON'T DISAGREE
WITH HIM.
IT'S HAPPENING LESS.
THERE'S I THINK A GREAT BENEFIT
TO ROAD SAFETY WHEN A HUNDRED
PEOPLE DRIVE BY A POLICE CAR
THAT HAS SOMEBODY STOPPED AND
THE OFFICER IS OUT THERE AND
THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING HELD TO
ACCOUNT AND GETTING A TICKET.
I MEAN, THERE'S AN EFFECT THAT
LASTS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AFTER
THAT, HALO EFFECT, AND I THINK
PEOPLE USE THOSE... SO THERE'S
GREAT BENEFIT TO IT.
IT'S EXPENSIVE...

Steve says THAT'S WHAT I WAS
GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU COULD STAND 50
METRES NORTH OF THIS STUDIO
RIGHT NOW AT THE CORNER OF YONGE
AND EGLINTON, YOU COULD PUT AN
OFFICER THERE, THEY COULD STAND
THERE ALL DAY LONG, AND THEY
COULD MAKE A FORTUNE.
THEY COULD MAKE A FORTUNE
PULLING OVER PEOPLE WHO ARE
MAKING ILLEGAL TURNS, WHO ARE
RUNNING THE RED LIGHT, SO ON AND
SO FORTH.
WHY DON'T YOU?

Warren says WE'VE TAKEN THE APPROACH NOW
TO BE MORE STRATEGIC.
THE RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT WHAT
SAVES LIVES IS STOPPING
AGGRESSIVE DRIVERS, IMPAIRED
DRIVERS, SLOWING PEOPLE DOWN.
THAT'S WHERE WE FOCUS OUR
ENFORCEMENT NOW.
SO WE DON'T SEE... YOU WON'T SEE
AS MUCH POLICE OFFICERS ON SIDE
STREETS DOING THINGS.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN STOP SIGNS AND
WEARING YOUR SEAT BELT ISN'T
IMPORTANT.
IT IS.
BUT OUR REAL FOCUS IS ON
THOSE... WE CALL IT THE BIG FOUR
OFFENCES.
SO THAT'S THAT.

Steve says WHAT ARE THE BIG FOUR?

Warren says IT'S AGGRESSIVE DRIVING,
DISTRACTED DRIVING, IMPAIRED
DRIVING, AND IT'S SPEEDING.
THOSE ARE THE BIG FOUR.
THAT'S OUR FOCUS.
THAT'S THE FOCUS OF OUR CAMPAIGN.
BUT, AGAIN, THERE'S... AND I
WANTED TO ADD ON TO THE TALK A
LITTLE EARLIER.
THERE'S A RISK PART TO THIS
WHERE PEOPLE ARE TAKING RISKS AS
DRIVERS, AS PEDESTRIANS, AS
CYCLISTS THAT WE NEED TO TALK
ABOUT MORE.
THE REALITY IS, WE HAVE A LOT OF
MID-BLOCK FATALITIES WHERE
PEOPLE ARE HIT CROSSING THE ROAD
MID-BLOCK, AND THERE'S A NUMBER
OF REASONS FOR THAT.
AND IT'S NOT ILLEGAL TO CROSS
THE ROAD IF YOU PARKED YOUR CAR
AND YOU'RE GOING TO THE BANK,
BUT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH
CROSSING THE ROAD.
HOWEVER, WE HAVE TO... PEOPLE
HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S
RISKY.
THAT'S RISKY.
AND THAT CARS ARE COMING, AND
IT'S VICE VERSA.
IF PEOPLE ARE MAKING A LEFT TURN
AT AN INTERSECTION AND YOU'RE
DRIVING, MOST OF THE SERIOUS
COLLISIONS THAT HAPPEN WITH
DRIVING HAPPEN... PEOPLE NEED TO
THINK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
WE NEED TO GET THAT CONVERSATION GOING.

Steve says I'VE SEEN EXAMPLES
OF PEOPLE WHO WALK... THEY DON'T
WALK, I GUESS... THEY'RE
RUNNING.
THEY RUN ACROSS THE 401.
HOW CRAZY IS THAT?

Warren says IT'S A BAD IDEA.

Steve says IT'S A BAD IDEA.
NO KIDDING IT'S A BAD IDEA.
SHOSHANNA?

Shoshanna says RUNNING ACROSS THE 401 IS
PRETTY EXTREME.
WE SHOULDN'T RUN ACROSS THE 401.

Steve says YA THINK?

Shoshanna says PEOPLE RUN MID-BLOCK NOT
BECAUSE THEY'RE IRRESPONSIBLE OR
DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RISK, IT'S
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A GOOD
ALTERNATIVE.
IF YOU HAVE TO WALK 800 METRES
TO GET TO A STOP SIGN AND THEN
WALK 800 METRES BACK, THAT'S A
LOT OF TIME, AND PEOPLE AREN'T
WILLING TO MAKE THOSE SACRIFICES
EVERY DAY.
WE'RE WILLING TO ASK PEDESTRIANS
TO GIVE UP THAT KIND OF TIME,
LET'S ASK PEOPLE IN COMFORTABLE
VEHICLES THAT ARE TEMPERATURE
CONTROLLED AND THAT WEIGH
THOUSANDS OF POUNDS TO GIVE UP
THAT KIND OF TIME.
I'M A LITTLE BIT UNCOMFORTABLE
WITH SAYING, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY
HAS TO BE MORE AWARE,
PEDESTRIANS, CYCLISTS, AND
DRIVERS.
I MEAN, YES, I TEACH MY
4-YEAR-OLD SON, YOU NEED TO LOOK
BEFORE YOU CROSS THE STREET.
YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL.
BUT HE'S SOFT, AND IF HE GETS
HIT BY A REALLY BIG CAR, THE CAR
WAS HARD, SO THE PEOPLE DRIVING
THE DANGEROUS MACHINES THAT CAN
KILL PEOPLE HAVE A LOT MORE
RESPONSIBILITY THAN, YOU KNOW,
THE 4-YEAR-OLDS WHO ARE LEARNING
HOW TO BE SAFE IN A CITY.
AND WE SHOULDN'T PUT THAT
RESPONSIBILITY ON HUMANS.
IT SHOULD BE THE DEFAULT THAT
IT'S SAFE, NOT THE THING THAT WE
HAVE TO GUARD AGAINST.

Steve says WE'VE HEARD SOME
CONVERSATION HERE, LINDA, I'LL
GO TO YOU FIRST ON THIS, ON
VISION ZERO 2.0, KIND OF
REBOOTED VISION ZERO PLAN FOR
THE CITY, LOWERING SPEED LIMITS
ON SOME ROADS, CROSSING GUARDS
AT SOME INTERSECTIONS, MORE RED
LIGHT CAMERAS AT SOME
INTERSECTIONS, OTHER CHANGES AS
WELL.
WHAT IMPACT DO YOU THINK THIS IS
GOING TO HAVE?

Linda says WELL, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON
RIGHT NOW, AND I DO HAVE TO BE
SOMEWHAT SUPPORTIVE OF THE CITY
BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT GOING ON
RIGHT NOW, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY
MAKING SOME REALLY IMPORTANT
CHANGES.
I MEAN, AGAIN, WE'RE NOT SEEING
THE EFFECTS QUITE YET, BUT
HOPEFULLY SOON.
WE RECENTLY LOOKED AT THE
REDUCTION OF SPEED LIMITS ON THE
LOCAL ROADWAYS IN THE DOWNTOWN
CORE FROM 40 TO 30 AND WE FOUND
A HUGE IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF
COLLISIONS.
I THINK IT WAS A REDUCTION OF
27 percent IN COLLISIONS AFTER LOWERING
THE SPEEDS ON LOCAL ROADS.

Steve says 10 KILOMETRES PER HOUR.

Linda says YEAH.
NOT EVEN CHANGING THE ROADWAY
DESIGNED.
WE WERE SURPRISED, WE WERE QUITE
SURPRISED.
THE OTHER THING LOCAL ROADS IS
NOT WHERE THE REALLY SEVERE
COLLISIONS ARE HAPPENING.
THE CITY IS TALKING ABOUT, AND I
THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE
ENACTING IT SOON, LOWERING THE
SPEED LIMITS ON MOST OF THE
ARTERIALS IN THE CITY CORE AS
WELL FROM 50 AND 60 DOWN TO 40
OR WHATEVER IT IS THEY'RE DOING.
SO THE SPEEDING THING IS
SOMETHING THAT WE'RE SEEING
GREAT EFFECT ON SPEED
ENFORCEMENT STARTING NEAR
SCHOOLS SOON, I THINK IN
DECEMBER.
SO THE FOCUS ON SPEED I THINK IS
SUPER IMPORTANT, AND I DO THINK
IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE IN REDUCING
COLLISIONS.

Steve says CHRISTINE, YOUR VIEW
ON THE CHANGES THAT I JUST
SUGGESTED A MOMENT AGO AND WHAT
IMPACT THEY MIGHT HAVE?

Christine says I'M HOPEFUL.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THESE... I'M
LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING THESE
INTRODUCED.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE
MONITOR THE IMPROVEMENT OVER A
PERIOD OF TIME, SO NOT JUST OVER
THE SHORT TERM BUT OVER THE LONG
TERM, AND I WOULD MAKE THAT SAME
COMMENT ABOUT THE 110 SPEED
LIMIT ON THE ONTARIO HIGHWAYS,
THAT WE LOOK AT IT NOT JUST OVER
THE SHORT TERM BUT OVER THE
LONGER TERM TO SEE WHAT KIND OF
IMPACT THAT'S HAVING.

Steve says WARREN WILSON, YOUR
VIEW OF MORE RED LIGHT CAMERAS?

Warren says OH, I'M A BIG PROPONENT...

Steve says CROSSING GUARDS, ET CETERA?

Warren says CERTAINLY RED LIGHT CAMERAS.
VISION ZERO, THEY'VE DOUBLED IT.
THERE WILL BE 300 I THINK BY THE
END OF NEXT YEAR.
THE CITY DECIDES WHERE TO HAVE
THEM OPERATING, AND IT'S QUITE
STRATEGIC IN HOW THEY DO IT, IN
THESE HIGH-COLLISION
INTERSECTIONS.
YEAH, IT'S ONLY AN
ADMINISTRATIVE FINE, BUT IT'S A
DETERRENT.
THERE'S CONSEQUENCES.
I THINK IT'S EFFECTIVE.
WE ALSO SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
AUTOMATED SPEED ENFORCEMENT, SO
I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY
AGAIN... THE CHALLENGE FOR LAW
ENFORCEMENT IS IT'S VERY
EXPENSIVE TO PUT POLICE OFFICERS
OUT TO WRITE TICKETS.
SO WE NEED TO LEVERAGE
TECHNOLOGY AND WE NEED TO BE
STRATEGIC HOW WE DO IT.
BUT WE HAVE COMPETING PRIORITIES
ALL THE TIME IN LAW ENFORCEMENT,
JUST LIKE EVERYBODY DOES, AND
UNFORTUNATELY ENFORCEMENT
SOMETIMES DOESN'T GET DONE WHEN
IT SHOULD.

Steve says LINDA, IF SOMEONE
WANTS TO HAVE A CROSSWALK PUT IN
THEIR NEIGHBOURHOOD OR SPEED
BUMPS PUT ON THE ROADS, HOW EASY
OR HARD IS IT TO DO THAT?

Linda says SO TRADITIONALLY WHAT HAPPENS
IS SOMEBODY MAKES A CALL IN,
WHETHER IT'S A PARENT OR CITY...
LIKE A CITY OFFICIAL OF SOME
KIND.
THERE IS LIKE A PROCESS AND THE
CITY GOES THROUGH IT TO
DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S
WARRANTED AND WHETHER OR NOT
IT'S AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION FOR
IT AND YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SPEAK
TO SOME OF THAT.
BUT, AGAIN, THAT INITIAL CALL
NEEDS TO BE MADE BY SOMEBODY,
AND... TRADITIONALLY.
WE CALL THAT A RESPONSIVE
REACTION.
THEY GO IN, THEY CHECK IT OUT.
IF THEY FEEL IT'S SOMETHING
APPROPRIATE TO PUT IN, THEY'LL
DO IT.

Steve says HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE?

Linda says IT TAKES A WHILE.
THE ISSUE I HAVE WITH IT IS
SOMEONE HAS TO MAKE THAT CALL.
THE LOW INCOME AREAS, THE HIGH
INCOME AREAS, THEY KNOW HOW TO
DO IT.
SOME OF THE LOW INCOME AREAS AND
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING
TO THE CITY A LOT ABOUT, THEY
DON'T HAVE THE CONNECTION.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHO THEY'RE
SUPPOSED TO CALL.
THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT MAYBE
THAT'S A POSSIBILITY TO GET
SOMETHING PUT IN.
SO AGAIN THE CITY IS TALKING
ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU DO
HAVE TO BE RESPONSIVE
POLITICALLY SOMETIMES TO SOME
REQUESTS, BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY
MAKING A HUGE EFFORT AND MAKING
SURE THAT IT'S NOT JUST THE
CALLS THAT ARE GETTING THE
STUFF.
IT'S BASED ON WHAT THE NUMBERS
ARE AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE
NEIGHBOURHOODS.

Steve says SHOSHANNA, IF YOU
WANT A CROSSWALK OR SPEED BUMP
IN YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD AND YOU
CALL CITY HALL, HOW LONG DOES IT
TAKE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

Shoshanna says RIGHT NOW IT'S TAKING A LONG
TIME.
THERE WAS COVERAGE IN THE STAR
THAT THE CITY IS PUTTING IN LESS
THAN TEN CROSSWALKS A YEAR AND
THERE'S HUNDREDS OF REQUESTS.
SO THERE'S A BIG CHALLENGE WITH
HOW LONG IT'S TAKING.
BUT ONE THING I WANT TO ADD IS
WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT HOW TO
CONTROL CARS.
AND THAT IS REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT.
BUT PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO GET
OUT OF THEIR CARS UNLESS THERE'S
SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GO.
AND FOR THAT WE NEED BETTER
PUBLIC TRANSIT, WE NEED BETTER
ACTIVE TRANSIT OPTIONS AND IF
PEOPLE CAN GET TO WHERE THEY
NEED TO GO IN A WAY THAT'S
FASTER, THAT'S CLEANER, THAT'S
CHEAPER, THAT'S BETTER FOR
EVERYBODY, THEN EVERYTHING GETS
BETTER ALL AT ONCE.
OUR VISION ZERO GOALS WE'RE
CLOSER TO MEETING THEM, OUR AIR
QUALITY IMPROVES, OUR PHYSICAL
HEALTH IMPROVES, IT MAKES FOR A
MORE FUN CITY.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT GETTING CARS
TO SLOW DOWN, ALTHOUGH THAT IS
REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT.
IT'S ALSO ABOUT GIVING PEOPLE
THE OPTIONS TO MAKE THE CHOICES
TO TRAVEL DIFFERENTLY.

Steve says AMANDA, I KNOW IF
YOU WALK OR DRIVE DOWN THE SIDE
STREETS THAT ARE RIGHT NEAR THE
STUDIO, YOU WILL SEE ON FRONT
LAWN AFTER FRONT LAWN AFTER
FRONT LAWN AFTER FRONT LAWN
SIGNS THAT PRESUMABLY THE HOME
OWNERS HAVE PUT UP SAYING: SLOW
DOWN.
KIDS PLAYING IN THIS AREA.
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
DO THEY HAVE AN IMPACT... EXCUSE
ME, CHRISTINE.

Christine says IT'S ALL RIGHT.
I HAVEN'T SEEN AN EVALUATION OF
THOSE SIGNS BUT CERTAINLY THEY
CAN.
I'VE ALSO SEEN PROGRAMS BY THE
POLICE WHERE THEY PUT UP A
TEMPORARY SPEED CAMERA THAT
TELLS THE DRIVER EXACTLY WHAT
THEIR SPEED IS.
I THINK IF IT'S THERE FOR A
SHORT PERIOD OF TIME YOU CAN
ACTUALLY SEE A REDUCTION IN
SPEED.
BUT WHEN IT SITS THERE TOO LONG,
THE DRIVERS WILL HABITUATE TO
THEM AS THEY'VE BEEN DRIVING
PAST IT REPEATEDLY.
SO BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP
PROGRAMS THAT ARE EFFECTIVELY
THAT WE MONITOR TO MAKE SURE
THEY'RE EFFECTIVE CAN BE
BENEFICIAL.

Steve says WE'VE GOT LESS THAN
A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT HERE
AND AMANDA I WANT TO GO TO YOU
FOR THIS FINAL WRAP-UP QUESTION.
WE'RE ALL IN A CITY RIGHT NOW
THAT WAS BUILT FOR CARS.
AND IN MANY PARTS OF THIS CITY,
DRIVING A CAR IS STILL THE
EASIEST WAY TO GET AROUND.
YOU KNOW, MAYBE NOT AT KING AND
BAY AT 5:30 IN THE AFTERNOON,
BUT CERTAINLY IN SOME PARTS OF
ETOBICOKE, SCARBOROUGH, NORTH
YORK, EVEN EAST YORK, YOU KNOW?
IT'S VERY EASY TO DRIVE AROUND
THIS CITY IN A CAR STILL.
ARE ALL OF THE INCIDENTS THAT
WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TODAY
JUST PART OF THE GROWING PAINS
OF A CITY THAT IS STILL TRYING
TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT ALL WORK?

The caption changes to "Growing pains."

Amanda says I THINK, YES, BUT WE KNOW THE
SOLUTIONS TO ACTUALLY MAKE
PROGRESS ON THIS.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, VISION
ZERO AND TRAFFIC FATALITIES, AT
THE END OF THE DAY THIS IS ABOUT
DECIDING WHO GETS TO LIVE AND
WHO GETS TO DIE ON OUR STREETS.
AND CHILDREN, OLDER ADULTS,
ECONOMICALLY MARGINALIZED
POPULATIONS ARE
DISPROPORTIONATELY NEGATIVELY
EFFECTED BY A ROAD DESIGN THAT
PRIORITIZES CAR.
ULTIMATELY WE NEED TO MAKE THESE
CHOICES THAT FOCUS ON EQUITY,
LIKE MY FELLOW PANELIST WAS
TALKING ABOUT, AND REALLY MAKING
PEDESTRIAN, CYCLING AND TRANSIT
INFRASTRUCTURE IRRESISTIBLE SO
THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE THAT CHOICE
AND FEEL COMFORTABLE ON OUR
STREETS.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_OConnor."

Steve says I WOULD LOVE TO
RECONVENE THIS GROUP NEXT YEAR
AT THE SAME TIME AND SHOW A MAP
THAT HAD A WHOLE LOT FEWER DOTS
ON IT, APROPOS OF HOW WE STARTED
THIS CONVERSATION.
LET'S HOPE.
GOOD OF ALL OF YOU TO COME IN TO
TVO TONIGHT AND HELP US OUT WITH
THIS.
THANKS SO MUCH.

The guests say THANK YOU.

Watch: Toronto's Risky Roads