Transcript: Historic TTC Deal: The Way Forward? | Oct 24, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and gray tie.

A caption on screen reads "Historic TTC Deal: The way forward? @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says THE PROVINCE WON'T
TAKE OWNERSHIP OF TORONTO'S
SUBWAYS, BUT IT WILL GET ITS
SO-CALLED ONTARIO LINE.
THAT'S SOME OF WHAT CAME TO
LIGHT IN THE LATEST ARRANGEMENT
BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE
PROVINCE OVER TRANSIT.
HERE TO EXAMINE THE PROS AND
CONS OF THE NEWEST, IN A LONG,
LONG, LINE OF SUCH DEALS AIMED
AT MOVING COMMUTERS IN THE
CAPITAL CITY, WE WELCOME:
KAREN STINTZ, FORMER TORONTO
CITY COUNCILLOR AND A PAST CHAIR
OF THE TORONTO TRANSIT COMMISSION...

Karen is in her fifties, with chin-length straight blond hair. She's wearing a red blazer over a white shirt.

Steve continues CHERISE BURDA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AT THE RYERSON CITY
BUILDING INSTITUTE...

Cherise is in her forties, with long wavy blond hair. She's wearing a black sweater and a white shirt.

Steve continues AND MATTI SIEMIATYCKI, ASSOCIATE
PROFESSOR, GEOGRAPHY AND
PLANNING AND INTERIM DIRECTOR OF
THE SCHOOL OF CITIES AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.

Matti is in his late forties, with short dark hair and a stubble. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt and spotted red tie.

Steve continues WE'RE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME ALL
THREE OF YOU BACK TO TVO FOR A
CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS REALLY
HISTORIC DEAL, 28 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL
BETWEEN QUEEN'S PARK AND CITY HALL.
CHERISE, START US OFF.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caption changes to "Cherise Burda. Ryerson University."
Then, it changes again to "Reaching consensus."

Cherise says IN A CITY
WHERE NOT BAD NEWS IS GOOD NEWS,
THIS IS GOOD NEWS.
THE PROVINCE HAS WALKED BACK ON
DOING SOMETHING BAD TO TORONTO.
SO THAT'S GOOD NEWS.
AND THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL FOUGHT
HARD AND UNITED AND DID REALLY
WELL, SO I THINK THAT'S GREAT.
BUT THE PROVINCE DOESN'T LOSE.
THEY WIN AS WELL.
THEY REALIZE THAT THE SUBWAY
COMES WITH A PRICE TAG OF
22 BILLION DOLLARS IN STATE OF GOOD
REPAIR BILLS, JUST FOR THE
SUBWAY SYSTEM.
AND WHO WANTS THAT ON THEIR
BOOKS RIGHT NOW WHEN THEY COULD
INSTEAD DEFER A LOT OF THE COSTS
TO THE FUTURE, ANNOUNCE A NEW
TRANSIT PLAN THAT, AS WE KNOW,
IT'S EASY TO ANNOUNCE PLANS.
WE DO A LOT OF THAT.
IT'S ANOTHER THING TO BUILD
THEM.

Steve says GOTCHA.
KAREN STINTZ.

The caption changes to "Karen Stintz. Former Toronto City Councillor."

Karen says WE HAVE
FUNDING AND A PLAN THAT ACTUALLY
MIGHT GET BUILT.
IT'S A GREASE CONVERSATION TO
HAVE AND IT'S NOT ONE WE'VE HAD
FOR A LONG TIME.
USUALLY THERE'S FIGHTS AND
BICKERING, WE'RE NOT GOING TO
FUND THIS OR THAT.
NOW WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE
CAN RALLY BEHIND AND THERE'S A
CHANCE THIS TRANSIT SYSTEM COULD
GET BUILT.

Steve says YOU AGREE, IT'S A
WIN-WIN.

Karen says IT'S
ABSOLUTELY A WIN-WIN.

Steve says MATTI?

The caption changes to "Matti Siemiatycki. University of Toronto."

Matti says IT'S A GOOD DEAL FOR RIDERS AND GOVERNMENT.
IT KEEPS THE SYSTEM IN ONE
PIECE, THE SYSTEM CAN BE WELL
INTEGRATED WITH THE BUSES AND
STREETCAR NETWORK WITHOUT HAVING
TO FIND SOLUTIONS TO INTEGRATE
IT WHEN IT HAS DIFFERENT
OWNERSHIP.
FOR BOTH LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT,
THE CITY AND THE PROVINCE, IT
PUTS THE FUNDING IN PLACE, IT
PUTS THE PRIORITIZATION IN
PLACE AND WE CAN GET GOING AND
START BUILDING TRANSIT.

Steve says CAN I FOLLOW UP WITH
THIS?
THE FEDERAL LIBERALS INITIALLY
SAID THE PROVINCE HASN'T DONE
ENOUGH DUE DILIGENCE, THEY
HAVEN'T PROVIDED ENOUGH DETAILS
ABOUT THE ONTARIO LINE, THE
RELIEF LINE, AND THEREFORE...
YOU KNOW, THEY WERE HOLDING OFF
FUNDING AT THE BEGINNING.
APPARENTLY YOU'VE HAD A CHANGE
OF HEART.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ACCOUNTS FOR
THAT?

Matti says CONSENSUS BETWEEN THE CITY
AND THE PROVINCE.
INTERGOVERNMENTAL COLLABORATION
HAS BEEN VERY DIFFICULT IN THIS
COUNTRY.
THERE'S BEEN GAMES MANSHIP
BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT, AND GETTING THEM ON
THE SAME PAGE HAS BEEN HARD.
IN THIS CASE WE'VE FOUND THAT
CONSENSUS.
WE HAVE FOUR PROJECTS THAT ARE
THE TOP PRIORITIES, AND THAT
ENABLES THE PROVINCE TO UNLOCK
THE FEDERAL MONEY AND THAT'S WHY
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS COME
ON BOARD NOW AND IS INTERESTED
TO GET BEHIND THIS PLAN WITH ALL
THREE LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT WE
CAN NOW GET GOING, IF THE DEAL
HOLDS, AND YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO
SAY THAT IN THIS REGION.

Steve says COUNCIL HAS NOT
PASSED IT YET, RIGHT?

Matti says THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF
HURDLES AND A LONG WAY TO GO.
IF THE DEAL HOLDS, WE'RE ON A
GOOD PATH.

Steve says WHY IS TRANSIT, AND
YOU AS THE FORMER HEAD OF THE
TTC WOULD KNOW THIS AS WELL AS
ANYBODY, WHY IS TRANSIT SO
POLITICIZED IN THIS CITY?

The caption changes to "Karen Stintz. Former TTC Chair."

Karen says I DON'T THINK
IT'S TRANSIT THAT'S POLITICIZED.
EVERYONE AGREES WE NEED MORE
TRANSIT.
THE BICKERING COMES WITH THE
TYPE OF TRANSIT WE'RE GOING TO
BUILD WITH THE LIMITED FUNDS
THAT WE HAVE.
I THINK THE REAL BREAKTHROUGH WE
SAW IN THIS LAST FEDERAL
ELECTION WAS THAT ALL THE
PARTIES... THE NDP, THE
CONSERVATIVES, AND THE
LIBERALS... ALL SUPPORTED A
TRANSIT PLAN THAT INCLUDED
SUBWAY CONSTRUCTION, AND
TYPICALLY THE NDP HAS BEEN
MORE... HAS BEEN LESS RETICENT
TO SUPPORT SUBWAY CONSTRUCTION.
THEY SUPPORT LRT BECAUSE THEY
FEEL THAT'S BETTER BANG FOR THE
BUCK.
NOW THAT WE HAVE... SUBWAYS HAVE
NOW BECOME A NON-PARTISAN ISSUE
AND EVERYBODY AGREES WE NEED TO
BUILD THEM AND ALL LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT ARE COMMITTED TO
FUNDING IT, AND SO WE... WE
HAVEN'T BEEN IN THIS PLACE IN MY
MEMORY, THAT WE'VE GOT ALIGNMENT
AND CONSENSUS AND AGREEMENT AND
DOLLARS, REAL DOLLARS, BEHIND
THE PLAN.

Steve says LET'S PLAY A CLIP
FROM ONE OF THE KEY PLAYERS IN
ALL OF THIS, CAROLINE MULRONEY,
IS ONTARIO'S MINISTER OF
TRANSPORTATION, AND HERE'S WHAT
SHE HAD TO SAY ABOUT ALL OF THIS.
THE CLIP, PLEASE.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "October 16, 2019."
In the clip, Caroline Mulroney gives an official statement.

She says I THINK THERE'S AN
OPPORTUNITY HERE TO STOP PLAYING
POLITICS.
I WAS HEARTENED BY THE TONE OF
THE NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN
PROVINCIAL OFFICIALS AND CITY
OFFICIALS ON THIS.
OUR GOAL HERE IS TO GET TRANSIT
BUILT AND REDUCE GRIDLOCK AND
PROMOTE ECONOMIC GROWTH, AND
THIS IS A CHANCE TO DO IT, AND
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A VERY
LONG TIME, ON A PROJECT OF THIS
MAGNITUDE, THE CITY AND THE
PROVINCE ARE ALIGNED.

The clip ends.

Steve says CHERISE, THE TONE IS
DIFFERENT, YOU HEARD THE
MINISTER SAY, THEY'VE MANAGED TO
GET A DEAL.
WHAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THIS SORT
OF ERA OF GOOD FEELING THAT'S
BROKEN OUT BETWEEN QUEEN'S PARK
AND CITY HALL?

The caption changes to "Cherise Burda, @CheriseBurda."

Cherise says I DON'T HAVE
THE INSIDE SCOOP.
ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I THINK
WE'VE REACHED A PLACE WHERE
EVERYONE KIND OF KNOWS WHAT
THEY'RE DEALING WITH, WHAT THEIR
SANDBOX IS, AND IF IT'S CLEAR
THAT THE PROVINCE IS MOVING
FORWARD WITH THESE PROJECTS AND
THEY ARE PAYING FOR THEM WITH
FEDERAL CONTRIBUTION AND THEN
THE CITY CAN LOOK AT, OKAY, WHAT
ARE WE DEALING WITH NOW?
WE HAVE... WE CAN KEEP OUR FARE
BOX, WHICH IS GREAT.
THEY HAD THAT ANYWAY.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO
PAYING FOR ONTARIO'S TRANSIT
PLAN, SO THAT'S GOOD.
THE THING THEY DON'T GET... THEY
GET TO KEEP THE GAS TAX BUT NOT
THE NEW GAS TAX THAT WAS
PROMISED BY THE PREVIOUS WYNNE
GOVERNMENT, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED
TO REPLACE THE TOLLS THAT SHE KILLED...

Steve says THAT SHE NIXED, YEAH.

Cherise says BUT THEN FORD CAME ALONG AND
TOOK THAT AWAY, SO THAT'S ONE
SOURCE OF FUNDING THAT THEY
DON'T HAVE.
BUT THEN I THINK THAT THEY STILL
GET MONEY FROM THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT IN THEIR ELECTION
PROMISE TO UPGRADE YONGE AND
BLOOR WHICH, AS WE KNOW, IT'S
VERY DANGEROUS THERE.
YOU HAVE TO UPGRADE THE
PLATFORMS AND I THINK FOR SOME
SMARTTRACK STATIONS.
AND THEY ALSO GET THE TAX THAT
DOUG FORD IMPOSED ON PROPERTY
TAX FOR STARTUP SUBWAY, WHICH
AMOUNTS TO ABOUT A BILLION DOLLARS
DOLLARS OVER 30 YEARS.
SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY
IN THERE...

Steve says IS THAT A ROB FORD
OR A DOUG FORD?

Cherise says DID I SAY...

Steve says ROB FORD.

Cherise says MY APOLOGIES.
THAT WAS PUT ON ALL OF OUR
PROPERTY TAX BILLS.
SO THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL BILLION DOLLARS.
SO THERE IS SOME MONEY TO PLAY
WITH, BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF
MONEY TO PLAY WITH.
BUT AT LEAST IF YOU KNOW THAT,
OKAY, THEY'RE BUILDING THESE BIG
LINES, WE HAVE GOT... THE CITY
HAS GOT TO DO A LOT TO GET
PEOPLE MOVING, BECAUSE IT IS NOT
SITTING STILL WHILE WE WAIT A
DECADE OR 15 YEARS TO BUILD
THESE THINGS.
THEY'RE LONG-TERM PROJECTS.
AND WE ARE STILL STRUGGLING IN
TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION NOW.
SO THE CITY NEEDS TO GET SERIOUS
ABOUT RAISING REVENUE TO BUILD
MORE SHORT... WELL, BE QUICK TO
DEPLOY OPTIONS AND THEY NEED TO
GET INNOVATIVE AND THINK ABOUT
MORE KING STREET PILOTS, THINGS
LIKE THAT.

Steve says LET ME GO TO THE
NOTION OF WHETHER THE SUBWAY
OPTION SHOULD HAVE BEEN UPLOADED
TO THE PROVINCE.
THERE IS A DISCORDANT VOICE OUT
THERE ON THIS.
TORONTO STAR COLUMNIST, MARTIN
REGG-COHN, WHO WRITES...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "The case for uploading." The quote reads "There's a reason why major metropolitan regions like New York and London have handed control of their sprawling commuter networks to truly regional decision-making bodies, rather than remaining at the mercy of local politicians whose first allegiance is to their city power base. Putting the capital-intensive rail lines on the province's books also permits deficit financing that Toronto cannot undertake on its own."
Quoted from Martin Regg Cohn, Toronto Star. October 16, 2019.

Steve says YOU KNOW, HE'S IN
FAVOUR OF THE UPLOADING.
THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY OF
ONTARIO, ONCE UPON A TIME, WAS
IN FAVOUR OF THE UPLOADING.
MR. FORD HAS BACKED DOWN ON
TAKING OWNERSHIP OF THE TRANSIT
SYSTEM.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, ULTIMATELY?

The caption changes to "Karen Stintz, @KarenStintz."

Karen says IT'S ONE OF
THOSE THINGS... THERE'S NO
QUESTION THEY COULD HAVE TAKEN
THE SUBWAYS.
THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO ALLOW THE
TTC TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE
BECAUSE, TO YOUR POINT, WE WANT
IT TO BE AN INTEGRATED SYSTEM.
YOU CAN'T TAKE ONE PIECE OF THE
SYSTEM AWAY.
AND SO THERE'S CHALLENGES WITH
THAT.
I THINK THE REASON THEY WANTED
TO DO IT WAS SO THAT THEY COULD
DEBT FINANCE AGAINST THE ASSET
TO BUILD THE SUBWAY.
BUT NOW THEY'VE GOT ANOTHER WAY
OF FUNDING IT, WITH CONTRIBUTION
OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
THEY DON'T NEED TO DO THAT
ANYMORE.
AND, I MEAN, AND TO THE POINT
YOU RAISED, IT'S A HEADACHE
RUNNING THE TRANSIT SYSTEM.
MY GUESS IS THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT HAS ENOUGH HEADACHES
WITH WHAT'S GOING ON ACROSS THE
SCHOOL BOARD NEGOTIATIONS AND
HEALTH CARE AND EVERYTHING ELSE,
THEY ACTUALLY DON'T NEED THIS
TRANSIT HEADACHE.
THEY FOUND A WAY TO GET THEIR
SUBWAYS BUILT.
THEY FOUND A WAY TO CONTINUE TO
KEEP THE TTC OPERATIONAL.
THE CITY... THE CITY AND THE
PROVINCE ARE IN AGREEMENT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT COULD
HAVE BEEN UPLOADED.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD HAVE
BEEN IN THE LONG-TERM INTEREST
OF THE CITY TO HAVE THAT HOME.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says DECLARE VICTORY AND
GO HOME.

Karen says DECLARE
VICTORY AND GO HOME, YEAH.

The caption changes to "Transit priorities."

Steve says I'M GOING TO... I'M
GOING TO BEG YOUR INDULGENCE
WHILE WE GO THROUGH A BIT OF
DETAIL HERE, BECAUSE LORRAINE
BARTON, SITTING IN FOR SHELDON
OSMOND TODAY IN THE DIRECTOR'S
CHAIR... LORRAINE, I'M GOING TO
ASK YOU TO BRING UP THESE MAPS
AND WE'LL GET ALL OF YOU TO
WEIGH IN WITH YOUR THOUGHTS.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Proposed Ontario Line."

A map of the existing tracks in Toronto appears on screen, showing the proposed line in blue dots.

Steve reads data from the slate and says
THIS IS THE SO-CALLED ONTARIO
LINE, 16 KILOMETRES OF TRACK
CONNECTING THE ONTARIO SCIENCE
CENTRE IN THE NORTHEAST TO
ONTARIO PLACE AND EXHIBITION
PLACE ON THE WESTERN LAKESHORE
AND THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE BY THE
END OF 2027, PRICE TAG ALMOST
11 BILLION DOLLARS.
LET'S HOLD OFF THERE.
I WANT TO GET EVERYBODY'S TAKE
ON THE FEASIBILITY OF DOING
THIS.
I'VE HEARD, YOU KNOW, FOR
EXAMPLE, ADAM VAUGHAN, THE NEWLY
RE-ELECTED MP SAY, IT'S JUST
DRAWING LINES ON A MAP.
WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW FEASIBLE
THIS IS.
MATTI, IS IT FEASIBLE?

Matti says I THINK
WE HAVE TO SPLIT THIS INTO
DIFFERENT SEGMENTS.
THE ORIGINAL RELIEF LINE THAT
GOES FROM BLOOR TO OSGOODE I
THINK IS BUILDABLE AND IT'S
GREAT THIS PROJECT IS GOING UP
TO EGLINTON IN THE FIRST PHASE.
THERE ARE IMPORTANT COMMUNITIES
THERE THAT ARE REALLY SUFFERING
FROM A LACK OF TRANSIT, UP
TOWARDS THE SCIENCE CENTRE.
IT'S REALLY KEY THAT THEY'RE
GETTING TRANSIT IN THE FIRST
PHASE.
THE PHASE FURTHER WEST OUT TO
ONTARIO PLACE, THAT HAS NEVER
BEEN STUDIED BEFORE.
THAT IS A SQUIGGLE ON A MAP
THAT'S GOING TO NEED A LOT MORE
DETAIL.
IN TERMS OF WHETHER THIS IS
FEASIBLE, WE'RE STILL IN VERY
EARLY DAYS.
AS WE GET MORE DETAILS, IT'S
LIKELY THE COST IS GOING TO GO
UP AND WE'RE GOING TO SEE TIME
DELAYS.
THE OTHER ISSUE IS IN THE
PORTION SOUTH OF GERRARD.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING
ABOVE GROUND, EITHER ON AN
ELEVATED GUIDE WAY OR AT GRADE.
THAT IS A TIGHT CORRIDOR THERE.
THERE ARE SOME REAL QUESTIONS AS
TO WHETHER IT CAN BE BUILT IN A
WAY THAT ISN'T EXTREMELY
DISRUPTIVE TO THE COMMUNITIES
THAT SURROUND THE LINE.

Steve says KAREN, YOUR TAKE ON
THE ONTARIO LINE?

Karen says IT'S
ABSOLUTELY FEASIBLE.
IT'S JUST WHETHER IT CAN BE
BUILT WITHIN THE COSTS THAT
THEY'RE SUGGESTING IT CAN BE
BUILT WITHIN.

Steve says AND THE TIME LINE TOO, EH?

Karen says AND THE TIME LINES TOO.
THERE'S NO QUESTION, TO THE
POINT YOU RAISE, THERE WILL
LIKELY BE PAGES BECAUSE THEIR
ORIGINAL ITERATION MAY HAVE TO
BE RECONFIGURED.
IT MAY NOT GO ALL THE WAY TO
ONTARIO PLACE.
THE KEY PIECE IS IF IT GOES TO
EGLINTON AND CONNECTS TO THE
YONGE-UNIVERSITY-SPADINA LINE,
THAT IS A KEY PIECE OF
INFRASTRUCTURE WE NEED TO BUILD
IF WE'RE GOING TO EXTEND THE
SUBWAY NORTH OF STEELES.

Steve says CHERISE?

Cherise says I AGREE WITH
BOTH MATTI AND KAREN.
ITS A CRITICAL PIECE.
THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE NEED
BUILT, SO LET'S GET BUILDING IT.
I AGREE WITH MATTI, LET'S START
WITH THE NORTH PART OF IT.
THAT'S THE MOST CRITICAL.
IT SEEMS TO ALREADY HAVE THE
MOST DESIGN GOING FOR IT AND
THEN DESIGN THE SOUTHERN PORTION
WHILE THAT'S BEING BUILT.
I WOULD ALSO SAY I'VE HEARD
PEOPLE SAY THAT PERHAPS A MORE
DOWNTOWN AREA OR SOUTHERN AREA
NEEDS TO BE UNDERGROUND BECAUSE
HOW DENSE THE URBAN FABRIC IS
THERE.
WHAT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE IS IN
MOST CITIES, DENSE URBAN
DOWNTOWNS, USUALLY YOU PUT
TRANSIT UNDERGROUND AND YOU
USUALLY PUT IT MORE ABOVE GROUND
IN THE SUBURBAN, LOW DENSITY
AREAS.
WE SEEM TO DO THINGS OPPOSITE.

Karen says I WANT TO
POINT OUT I THINK IT IS
IMPORTANT THEY DID RENAME IT THE
ONTARIO LINE.
WHEN IT WAS CALLED THE DOWNTOWN
RELIEF LINE, THERE WAS A SENSE
THERE'S MORE TRANSIT FOR THE
DOWNTOWN WHEN REALLY THIS LINE
IS GOING TO SERVE THE SUBURBS
AND THE OUTER REGIONS OF THE GTA
SESSION MUCH AS THE DOWNTOWN.

Steve says THAT'S A POLITICAL
NUANCE BUT IMPORTANT.

Karen says I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO BUY INTO
IT AND SUPPORT IT.
THIS IS NOT GOING TO GET BUILT
IN ONE TERM.
BUT WHAT WE NEED TO BUILD IS
ENOUGH POLITICAL SUPPORT AND
CAPITAL THAT THE NEXT GOVERNMENT
COMING IN DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT
THIS IS A NEGOTIATION, THAT WE
HAVE TO AGREE THAT THIS IS A
DONE DEAL, HOWEVER IT LOOKS, AND
THAT WE DON'T TOUCH THE TRANSIT
PLAN ANYMORE.

Steve says MATTI, LAST WORD ON
THIS ONE?

Matti says I THINK
THE KEY IS THIS LINE HASN'T BEEN
CONSULTED ON YET.
THE PUBLIC HASN'T SEEN ALL THAT
MUCH DETAIL IN TERMS OF HOW IT'S
GOING TO BE BUILT, WHERE IT'S
ABOVE GROUND, BELOW GRADE.
EVEN THE TECHNOLOGY BEING TALKED
ABOUT, THERE'S A LOT OF DEBATE
ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THIS IS FEASIBLE.
I THINK IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO
BE A GOOD PLAN, BUT IT NEEDS
MUCH MORE SCRUTINY, AND
TYPICALLY WITH BIG
INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, AS MORE
DESIGN DETAIL GETS DONE, THE
COSTS TEND TO GET UP AND THE
TIME LINES TEND TO EXPAND.

Cherise says TO ADD TO
THAT, UNDERSTANDING THINGS LIKE
FARE INTEGRATION, HOW THAT'S
GOING TO WORK.
NOT JUST ON THE ONTARIO LINE,
ALL THE LINES.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE AFTER IT'S
BUILT?
ARE THEY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE
CAPITAL INVESTMENT AND WALK AWAY
AND TORONTO IS DEALING WITH
OPERATIONAL COSTS, MAINTENANCE,
THINGS LIKE THAT.
I THINK ALL OF THOSE DETAILS
NEED TO BE WORKED OUT AS WELL.

Steve says LET'S GO TO PICTURE
2, LORRAINE.
THIS IS THE YONGE NORTH
EXTENSION WHICH IS GOING TO TAKE
ON THE YONGE UNIVERSITY LINE.
I CAN DESCRIBE THOSE FOR
LISTENING ON PODCAST.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Proposed Yonge North Subway extension to Richmond Hill."

The map seen before reappears, highlighting a proposed track north of Finch station.

Steve reads data from the slate and says
FINCH STATION, THE TOP OF THE
ORANGE LINE, THE YONGE LINE,
THEY WANT TO BUILD AN EXTENSION
UP INTO YORK REGION AND THAT IS
AIMED TO BE DELIVERED BY THE
YEAR 2029-2030, SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
OKAY, MATTI, COME ON IN HERE AND
TELL US WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS
IDEA.

Matti says I THINK
AS LONG AS THE RELIEF LINE IS
OPEN, I THINK AS LONG AS THEY'VE
REBUILT YONGE-BLOOR STATION SO
IT'S SAFE, I THINK THIS IS A
GREAT PROJECT.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE EXPANDING
BEYOND THE CITY OF TORONTO'S
BOUNDARIES, MAKING THIS A
REGIONAL TRANSIT SYSTEM BECAUSE
OUR CITY FUNCTIONS AS A REGION.
PEOPLE CROSS THESE BOUNDARIES.
THEY DON'T THINK WHETHER THEY'RE
IN THE CITY OF TORONTO OR YORK
REGION.
I THINK THIS IS A GOOD PROJECT
BUT WE NEED THE OTHER
INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE THAT
ALLEVIATES SOME OF THE
CONFESSION ON THE EXISTING YONGE
LINE AND MAKES IT FEASIBLE FOR
THEM TO ADD MORE TRAINS FURTHER
NORTH.

Steve says I GUESS THAT'S THE KEY.
KAREN, IF THEY BUILD THIS BEFORE
THEY BUILD THE RELIEF LINE,
YOU'RE PUTTING MORE PEOPLE ON
THE YONGE SUBWAY.

Karen says CORRECT.

Steve says THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO GO.

Karen says NOT ONLY
THAT, NOT ONLY YONGE AND BLOOR,
BECOMES A BOTTLENECK, WHICH IT
ALREADY IS, YONGE AND EGLINTON
BECOMES A BOTTLENECK.
THE YONGE-UNIVERSITY-SPADINA
LINE BETWEEN FINCH AND UNION IS
REALLY, REALLY CONGESTED AND SO
BEING ABLE TO RELIEVE SOME OF
THAT CONGESTION IS KEY.

Steve says IS THERE ANY
QUESTION IN YOUR MIND THAT THERE
WILL BE SUFFICIENT TRAFFIC IN
PLACES LIKE MARKHAM AND RICHMOND
HILL TO WARRANT THIS KIND OF
INVESTMENT?

Cherise says I THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT.
ONE THING TO ADD, MARKHAM OR
YORK REGION HAS BUILT THEIR LAST
RAPID TRANSIT.
FOR PEOPLE NOT FAMILIAR WITH
THAT, IT'S LIKE LIGHT RAIL
TRANSIT WITHOUT THE LANES.
IT'S IN ITS OWN LANE, IT'S
BUSES, IT HAS ITS OWN
SIGNALLING.
IT'S NOT STUCK IN MIXED TRAFFIC
LIKE A...

Steve says TRANSIT VEHICLES?

Cherise says THIS IS THE OTHER THING WE
SHOULD REALLY MAKE SURE THAT WE
INTRODUCE ELECTRIC BUSES WHEN
WE'RE DOING A BRT.
SO THEY HAVE 35 KILOMETRES...
THEY'RE ALMOST FINISHED... OF
BUS-RAPID TRANSIT.
IT'S A NETWORK.
AND THE WAITING TIMES ARE ABOUT
TWO TO FIVE MINUTES DURING PEAK
HOURS.
AND THIS SHOULD CONNECT TO THE
SUBWAY.
YOU CAN GET TO THE FINCH SUBWAY
THROUGH THE NETWORK OF BRTs,
BUT I THINK THERE'S AN ADDED BIT
OF INCENTIVE.
YOU LOOK AT MARKHAM-YORK REGION,
PEOPLE DRIVE THERE.
THAT'S THE CULTURE THERE.
IF YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO JUMP
ON THE BRT ALONG HIGHWAY 7 AND
GET TO A SUBWAY, THERE'S
PROBABLY MORE INCENTIVE.
A LOT OF TIME AND INVESTMENT
WENT INTO BUILDING THAT NETWORK.
MIND YOU, JUST A NUMBER.
IT WAS ONLY 1.4 BILLION DOLLARS TO
BUILD 35 KILOMETRES OF BRT,
RAPID TRANSIT.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO
LEARN FROM YORK REGION IS, LET'S
TRY AND DO THAT ELSEWHERE.

Steve says BETTER BANG FOR THE BUCK.
OKAY.
I DON'T WANT TO LET THE CLOCK
GET AWAY FROM US HERE.
LET'S GO, LORRAINE, IF WE CAN,
THIS IS PRIORITY 3, THIS IS THE
PROPOSED EGLINTON EXTENSION TO
PEARSON AIRPORT.
THIS IS THE CROSSTOWN... WHAT DO
THEY CALL IT AGAIN?

Matti says LRT.

A new map appears under the title "Proposed Eglington extension to Pearson Airport."

It shows a stretch of track proposed to reach Pearson Airport.

Steve says LRT. THANK YOU.
OUT TO PEARSON AIRPORT IN THE
WEST AND THIS IS GOING 100
METRES NORTH OF WHERE WE'RE
SITTING RIGHT NOW.
6 BILLION DOLLARS PROJECT, AN ENORMOUS
PROJECT THAT'S UNDERWAY, AND I
GUESS STILL A FEW YEARS AWAY
FROM BEING COMPLETED... WELL, I
GUESS BY THE TIME THEY GET THE
EXTENSION TO PEARSON, IT'S 2030,
2031, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
CHERISE, THE ADVISABILITY OF
DOING THIS PLAN IN THIS WAY...

Steve continues WHAT DO YOU SAY?

Cherise says WE
ABSOLUTELY NEED THAT CONNECTION
TO PEARSON.
WE NEED IT TO THE WHOLE
AIRPORT-CORPORATE CENTRE, WHICH
IS THE SECOND LARGEST EMPLOYMENT
CENTRE IN ALL OF CANADA.

Steve says THAT'S AMAZING.
SAY THAT AGAIN.
PEARSON AIRPORT AREA IS THE
SECOND LARGEST EMPLOYMENT AREA
IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY?

Cherise says AFTER DOWNTOWN TORONTO.

Steve says INCREDIBLE.

Cherise says I'M NOT SURE WE NEED IT TO GO UNDERGROUND, THOUGH.
IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE
CROSSTOWN, PARTS OF IT ARE
UNDERGROUND IN THE DENSE AREAS
AND THEN IT SURFACES AND THEN IT
WILL GO UNDERGROUND AGAIN,
WHICH... YOU COULD FREE UP A FEW
BILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND
ELSEWHERE ON TRANSIT IF YOU
DIDN'T TUNNEL IT.
I DON'T SEE THE REASON WHY YOU
WOULD NEED TO DO THAT.
IT'S A LOW DENSITY AREA.

Steve says WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THAT?

Karen says I THINK WHEN
THESE PLANS ARE STUDIED FURTHER,
I THINK THAT THERE PROBABLY WILL
BE ROOM TO MANOEUVRE AND IT WILL
BE ON THAT LINE SO THE MONEY CAN
GET SHIFTED OVER TO THE ONTARIO
LANE.
I THINK THEY'VE PROBABLY
UNDERVALUED THE ONTARIO LINE IN
TERMS OF COSTING AND IF THEY
DON'T TUNNEL THE WESTERN PART OF
THE EGLINTON LRT, THEY CAN USE
THAT MONEY TO THE ONTARIO LINE.

Steve says MATTI?

Matti says I THINK
THE KEY THEN IS TO SEE THESE
TRANSIT PROJECTS AS PART OF A
BROADER SYSTEM.
WHEN WE PLAN THEM IN ISOLATION,
WE'RE INCLINED TO MAKE DECISIONS
BY PUTTING PROJECTS UNDERGROUND
IN PLACES PERHAPS IT DOESN'T
BELONG.
I WOULD ECHO MY COLLEAGUES ON
THE PANEL.
EGLINTON WEST IS NOT THE PLACE
TO GO UNDERGROUND.
IF THAT ENABLES US TO FREE UP
MONEY TO PUT INTO OTHER PROJECTS
AND TO INVEST IN OUR TRANSIT
NETWORK AS A SYSTEM, I THINK
THAT CAN BE VERY POSITIVE.

Steve says LET'S DO ONE MORE
HERE.
THIS IS PRIORITY NUMBER 4.
THIS IS... WHAT SHALL WE CALL IT?
THE MOTHER OF ALL TRANSIT
CONTROVERSIES, I GUESS.

[LAUGHTER]

Karen says NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.

A map titled "Proposed three-stop Scarborough subway extension" appears. It shows a track proposed to connect Kennedy and McCowan stations.

Steve says THIS IS THE
SCARBOROUGH SUBWAY EXTENSION.
TO BE IMPLEMENTED BY THE YEAR
2029-2030, AT A COST, WE WERE
TOLD ONCE UPON A TIME OF MAYBE
3 BILLION DOLLARS.
THERE'S NOT A CHANCE IN YOU KNOW
WHERE THAT IT'S GOING TO COME IN
AT 3 BILLION DOLLARS.
IN FACT, MATTI, LET ME ASK YOU
THAT: WHAT DOES YOUR RESEARCH
TELL YOU ABOUT HOW LONG IT TAKES
THESE... WHAT DOES YOUR RESEARCH
TELL YOU ABOUT HOW OFTEN THESE
THINGS COME IN ON TIME AND ON BUDGET?

Matti says THE
RESEARCH ON TIME AND ON BUDGET
SUGGESTS IT'S REALLY UNLIKELY.
NINE OUT OF TEN PROJECTS HAVE A
COST OVERRUN, AND TRANSIT,
PUBLIC TRANSIT, IS MOST PRONE TO
THE BIGGEST COST OVERRUNS.
THE AVERAGE COST OVERRUN
GLOBALLY IS AROUND 45 percent.
THAT'S A BIG NUMBER WHEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT A PROJECT THAT IS
ALREADY STARTING AT AROUND
3.35 BILLION DOLLARS.
THE TIME ASPECT IS ALSO
INTERESTING.
MY COLLEAGUES HERE AT THE
UNIVERSITY AND I... UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO AND I HAVE DONE A
STUDY ON HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN TO
GET PROJECTS BUILT HERE IN
GREATER TORONTO, TRANSIT
PROJECTS.
WHAT WE FIND, THE PROJECTS THAT
HAVE OPENED IN THE LAST DECADE,
NONE OF THEM GOT BUILT AND
PLANNED FASTER THAN 30 YEARS.
THERE IS A 30-YEAR RUNWAY FROM
THE FIRST TIME IT GOES INTO A
PLAN AND GETS DEBATED AND
DISCUSSED TO WHEN THERE'S A
POLITICAL CONSENSUS AND THEN THE
FINANCING AND THE FUNDING IS IN
PLACE, PROCUREMENT,
CONSTRUCTION, AND FINALLY
OPENING.
THAT IS A 30-YEAR PERIOD.
WE'RE TRYING TO EXPEDITE THAT
NOW.
I THINK THAT'S POSITIVE.
I THINK WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND
THERE IS THIS VERY LONG HISTORY
OF PROJECTS TAKING A LONG TIME.
AND ALSO CONSTRUCTION NOW ON
THESE BIG PROJECTS HAS BECOME A
CHALLENGE.
WE'RE FINDING WITH BIG TRANSIT
PROJECTS THAT MANY OF THEM ARE
DELAYED EVEN WHEN THEY'RE BEING
BUILT THROUGH PUBLIC-PRIVATE
PARTNERSHIPS.

Steve says WELL, IT'S A 30-YEAR
PERIOD OF PLANNING AND DOING AND
BUILDING AND RIDING WHEN IT'S
ONE PLAN.
BUT AS COUNCILLOR JOE CRESSY HAS
REMINDED US, YOU WANT TO BRING
THIS TWEET UP...

A tweet by Joe Cressy appears on screen that reads "The bad –the reversal back to a 3-stop Scarborough subway means further transit delays in Scarborough. In 10 years we have gone from a 7-stop LRT, to a 3 stop subway, to a 1 stop subway and 14 stop LRT, to a 1 stop subway, and now back to 3. Meanwhile, nothing has been built. 3/5."

Steve says IN TEN YEARS WE
HAVE GONE FROM A SEVEN-TOP LRT
TO A ONE-STOP SUBWAY AND 14-STOP
LRT TO A ONE-STOP SUBWAY AND NOW
WE'RE BACK TO THREE.
MEANWHILE, NOTHING HAS BEEN
BUILT.
OKAY.
CHERISE, WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD
THAT WHAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE
THERE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO
HAPPEN?

Cherise says I DON'T HAVE
A CRYSTAL BALL, BUT ALL I CAN
SAY IS WE TALK ABOUT WINNERS AND
WINNERS IN THIS DEAL, AND I
WOULD SAY THOSE WHO ARE... WHO
SUFFER THE MOST... I DON'T WANT
TO CALL THEM LOSERS... BUT THOSE
WHO HAVE SUFFERED THE MOST ARE
THE PEOPLE IN SCARBOROUGH.

Steve says WHY?

The caption changes to "Changing tracks."

Cherise says THEY ARE GOING TO BE WAITING
NOW OVER A DECADE, MAYBE 15
YEARS TO GET THEIR THREE-STOP
SUBWAY.
BUT THE OTHER THING THAT'S
REALLY CRITICAL HERE IS THAT
THEIR RAPID TRANSIT LINE, THE
ONE THAT IS REALLY AGING AND
IT'S GOING TO BE TAKEN OFFLINE
SOMETIME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
NEXT DECADE, BECAUSE THIS NEW
CONFIGURATION IS GOING TO TAKE
SO LONG TO GET ONLINE, THEY'RE
GOING TO HAVE A FIVE-YEAR GAP
BETWEEN THE TWO LINES WHERE
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE
RIDING BUSES FOR AT LEAST FIVE
YEARS.

Steve says LET'S JUST
UNDERSTAND THAT.
WHEN THE CURRENT SCARBOROUGH RT
COMES TO ITS END OF LIFE, PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO BE BACK ON THE
BUSES FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE THE
NEW SCARBOROUGH SUBWAY IS BUILT?

Cherise says EXACTLY, YEAH.
AND I THINK IT REALLY... YOU
KNOW, WHAT'S IRONIC IS THAT SO
MANY POLITICIANS HAVE POSTURED
OVER GIVING SCARBOROUGH THE
TRANSIT IT DESERVES, AND IT
DESERVES A SUBWAY.
AND IN THE END, THEY'RE THE ONES
WAITING THE LONGEST.
AND SO I REALLY THINK THAT
THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
CITY OF TORONTO TO PRIORITIZE
THE EGLINTON CROSSTOWN EAST,
WHICH IS THE EXTENSION OF THE
EGLINTON CROSSTOWN, WHICH WOULD
SERVE A HUGE PORTION OF
SCARBOROUGH, GO TO UNIVERSITY OF
TORONTO SCARBOROUGH CAMPUS, AND
IT WOULD HAVE 17 STOPS.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S A FRACTION OF
THE PRICE... SO 5.5 BILLION DOLLARS FOR
A THREE-STOP SUBWAY, YOU KNOW,
AROUND A BILLION DOLLARS AND CHANGE FOR A 17-STOP LRT.

Steve says WHICH IS DONE SOONER.

Cherise says WHICH IS DONE SOONER.

Steve says I'D LIKE TO POSTURE POSTURE...

[LAUGHTER]

Karen says AS A PAST
POLITICIAN AND ONE AS PART OF
THE DEBATES, I'D LIKE TO DO A
LITTLE POSTURING.
THE COMMUTERS WOULD HAVE BEEN ON
BUSES ANYWAY BECAUSE IT WAS THE
SAME LRT ROUTE.
ONCE THE SRT WAS REBUILT AS AN
LRT, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE
ON THE BUSES ANYWAY.
AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS
WE ACTUALLY SAID, LET'S EXTEND
THE SUBWAY TO BUILD THAT
EXTENSION OF THE BLOOR-DAN FORTH
LINE SO THAT AT LEAST WE CAN GET
THE MOST OUT OF THE SRT AND WE
CAN AVOID THE BUSES.
WE WEREN'T ABLE TO ACHIEVE THAT
BECAUSE THE TIME LINE SHIFTED.
I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE
THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT ABOUT
THIS DEBATE IS THAT IF WE EXTEND
THE BLOOR-DANFORTH LINE, THOSE
THREE STOPS, WE ACTUALLY END THE
SHEPPARD SUBWAY DEBATE.

Steve says WHAT'S THE DEBATE THERE?

Karen says THAT SHEPPARD SHOULD BE A
SUBWAY BECAUSE THIS EXTENSION OF
BLOOR-DANFORTH LINE UP TO
McKEOWEN AND SHEPPARD EAST
WILL BE AN LRT AND WE DON'T HAVE
TO DEBATE ANYMORE...

Steve says I DIDN'T KNOW PEOPLE
WERE STILL DEBATING THAT.

Karen says I THINK THAT IS ALL GOOD.
NOW THAT THAT HAS BEEN SETTLED,
ONCE AND FOR ALL, WE CAN
CONTINUE ON TO BUILD THE TRANSIT
THAT SCARBOROUGH NEEDS.
YOU KNOW, SCARBOROUGH IS MORE
THAN 500,000 PEOPLE AND THEY
HAVE THREE SUBWAY STOPS.
I HAVE THREE SUBWAY STOPS WITHIN
WALKING DISTANCE FROM MY HOUSE.
SO THERE IS AN ENORMOUS TRANSIT
INEQUITY IN SCARBOROUGH.
THE ISSUE IS HOW DO YOU SOLVE
IT?
THERE ARE MANY PLANS, MANY
SOLUTIONS, MANY DISCUSSIONS,
MANY FIGHTS.
IF WE CAN AGREE WE'RE GOING TO
EXTEND THE BLOOR-DANFORTH LINE,
IT ACTUALLY HELPS REDUCE HAVING
TO CHANGE MODES OF TRANSIT FOR
PEOPLE IN SCARBOROUGH WHO ARE
TRYING TO GET DOWNTOWN, AND IT
ALLOWS US TO GET ON WITH
BUILDING THE TRANSIT THAT WE
NEED.

Steve says MATTI?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Matti says MY
CONCERN WITH THIS PLAN IS THAT
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE FURTHER
EAST, ESPECIALLY IN LOWER INCOME
NEIGHBOURHOODS, LIKE KINGSTON
GALLOWAY AND FURTHER NORTH INTO
MALVERN, THEY DO NOT GET ACCESS
TO HIGH-QUALITY TRANSIT THROUGH
THIS PLAN.
IN THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL, THE
CONSENSUS THAT WAS FORMED TO GET
THE SUBWAY BUILT, THE
SCARBOROUGH SUBWAY BUILT, WAS
THAT WE WOULD ALSO FUND THE
EGLINTON EAST LRT, AND THAT
PROJECT HAS NOW FALLEN OFF THE
TABLE, AND IT MEANS THAT PEOPLE
WHO LIVE IN COMMUNITIES FURTHER
TO THE EAST AS WELL AS THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO
SCARBOROUGH, ARE NOT GOING TO
HAVE RAPID TRANSIT COMING TO
THEIR... ANYWHERE NEAR THEIR
DOOR, EVEN AFTER WE SPEND ALL
THIS MONEY ON A SUBWAY.
WE NEED TO BE THINKING OF HOW WE
PROVIDE THE BEST TRANSIT TO
SCARBOROUGH, EVEN IF THIS PLAN
GOES THROUGH, WE HAVE TO NOW
COME UP WITH THE STRATEGIES TO
MAKE SURE THAT IT'S PART OF AN
INTEGRATED NETWORK AND THAT
PEOPLE CAN USE IT AND MOVE
AROUND THE REGION APPROPRIATELY.

Steve says UNIVERSITY OF
TORONTO SCARBOROUGH CAMPUS IS A
BIG DESTINATION POINT.
HOW CLOSE WOULD A SCARBOROUGH
SUBWAY STATION GET TO THAT
CAMPUS?
DOES ANYBODY NO?

Cherise says NOWHERE.

Steve says THAT'S THE POINT.
THAT'S THE POINT.
YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND
4.5 BILLION DOLLARS ON A SUBWAY THAT'S
NOT GOING TO ONE OF THE PRIME
DESTINATIONS...

Cherise says FIVE AND A HALF.

Steve says FIVE AND A HALF BILLON
BY THE TIME IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE.

Cherise says WHETHER IT'S ONE STOP OR
THREE STOPS, I MEAN, FINE.
BUILD IT.
THE PROVINCE IS GOING TO BUILD
IT.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE BUILT
ANYTIME SOON.
EVEN IF IT IS BUILT, IT'S NOT
GOING TO SERVE SCARBOROUGH.
WHAT SCARBOROUGH NEEDS IS A
NETWORK.
WE NEED TO BE LOOKING IN THE
CITY OF TORONTO AT HOW DO WE
DEPLOY, NOT ONLY LRTs, THAT
ARE FASTER, MORE COST EFFECTIVE,
TAKE A PAGE OUT OF MARKHAM'S
BOOK AND LOOK AT BRT.
SCARBOROUGH HAS A LOT OF WIDE
ARTERIAL ROADS THAT YOU CAN RUN
BRTs UP AND DOWN AND THEY
COULD BE CONVERTED TO LRTs,
BUT THEY'RE MORE COST EFFECTIVE,
QUICKER TO DEPLOY, AND WE NEED
TO GET PEOPLE MOVING.

Steve says I HAVE A MINUTE LEFT.
KAREN, I'LL LEAVE IT TO YOU.
ARE THERE BETTER ALTERNATIVES
OUT THERE THAT COULD GET PEOPLE
INTO TRANSIT SOONER?

The caption changes to "Tunnel vision."

Karen says I THINK THE
BEST THING WE CAN DO TO GET
PEOPLE INTO TRANSIT SOONER IS TO
DEMONSTRATE OUR COMMITMENT TO
BUILDING TRANSIT, AND NOW WE
HAVE CONSENSUS AMONG THREE
LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.
WE HAVE A PLAN THAT WILL BE
MODIFIED BUT FUNDAMENTALLY WON'T
CHANGE AND I DON'T BELIEVE ANY
FURTHER ELECTIONS WILL BE FOUGHT
OVER TRANSIT.
AND SO NOW THERE IS CONFIDENCE
IN THE PUBLIC THAT WE ARE
BUILDING THE TRANSIT SYSTEM AND
ACTUALLY FINALLY CATCHING UP TO
THE POPULATION GROWTH THAT WILL
HELP US GET PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR
CARS AND MOVING THROUGH THE
CITY.

The caption changes to "Producer: Patricia Kozicka, @TrishKozicka."

Steve says PERFECTLY BROUGHT IN
RIGHT TO TIME.
THANK YOU FOR THAT.
THAT'S KAREN STINTZ, FORMER
TORONTO CITY COUNCILLOR, CHAIR
OF THE TTC ONCE UPON A TIME, NOW
THE CEO FOR VARIETY VILLAGE.
WE THANK MATTI SIEMIATYCKI AS
WELL FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF
TORONTO.
AND CHERISE BURDA FROM THE
RYERSON CITY BUILDING INSTITUTE
WHERE SHE IS THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR THERE.
GREAT TO HAVE ALL OF YOU ON TVO
TONIGHT FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
THANKS SO MUCH.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Cherise says THANK YOU.

Karen says THANK YOU.

Matti says THANK YOU.

Watch: Historic TTC Deal: The Way Forward?