Transcript: The Crisis in Hong Kong | Nov 29, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and gray tie.

A caption on screen reads "The crisis in Hong Kong. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says AN ESCALATING
POLITICAL CRISIS IN HONG KONG
OVER THE PAST SIX MONTHS
HAS LED TO VIOLENT CLASHES
BETWEEN POLICE AND
DEMONSTRATORS.
NOW ELECTIONS HAVE AMPLIFIED
THAT DISCONTENT.
WITH US TO ASSESS THE CITY'S
POLITICAL CRISIS AND ITS
CHALLENGE TO BEIJING'S RULE:
EMILY LAU.
SHE IS A FORMER DEMOCRATIC PARTY
MEMBER OF THE HONG KONG
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AND CHAIR OF
THE HONG KONG DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S
FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE.

Emily is in her sixties, with short wavy brown hair. She's wearing a pink blazer, golden earrings and a matching brooch.

Steve continues WE ARE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME YOU TO TVO.

Emily says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Steve says SO NICE TO MEET YOU.
WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE
ELECTIONS THAT JUST TRANSPIRED
LAST WEEKEND THAT SAW THE
PRO-DEMOCRACY CANDIDATES DO VERY
WELL.

The caption changes to "Emily Lau. Former Hong Kong Legislative Council Member."
Then, it changes again to "A victory for democracy?"

Emily says IT WAS GOOD.
BETTER THAN EXPECTED.
AND I THINK THE PEOPLE HAVE
SPOKEN LOUDLY AND CLEARLY, IN A
VERY PEACEFUL WAY, JUST VIA THE
BALLOT BOX.
THEY SAY THEY ARE OPPOSED TO
CARRIE LAM, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE,
AND OF COURSE TO BEIJING'S
INTERFERENCE.
SO WHAT WE HOPE TO SEE HAPPENING
IS NOT BEIJING COMING ON US LIKE
A TON OF BRICKS, BUT THAT THEY
WOULD LISTEN TO THE DEMANDS OF
THE PEOPLE AND START RESPONDING
SO THEN LIFE CAN RETURN TO
NORMALITY, I HOPE.

Steve says WELL, THAT IS THE
KEY QUESTION.
YOU'VE SENT OUT A MESSAGE.
DO YOU THINK THAT MESSAGE HAS
BEEN RECEIVED BY BEIJING?

The caption changes to "Emily Lau. Hong Kong Democratic Party."

Emily says I DON'T KNOW.
ACTUALLY, I SPEAK AS SOMEONE WHO
HAS NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO TRAVEL
TO MAINLAND CHINA FOR SEVERAL
DECADES.
SO I HOPE TO USE YOUR PROGRAM TO
TALK TO BEIJING.
I'M SURE THEY'RE WATCHING IT.

Steve says WHY CAN'T YOU GO TO CHINA?

Emily says WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO ASK THEM.
AND SOME PEOPLE SAY, "YOUR
MOUTH."
THE FIRST CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF
HONG KONG, MR. C.H. TONG, SAID
TO ME, "EMILY, DON'T TALK TOO
MUCH.
TAKE A STEP BACK.
NO, TAKE THREE STEPS BACKWARDS."
I SAID, C.H., I'VE BEEN ELECTED
TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE, AND
YOU'RE TELLING ME NOT TO TALK
TOO MUCH.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH BEIJING.
THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SAY
THINGS THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR.
AND IF I AM RESIDING IN MAINLAND
CHINA, STEVE, I WILL PROBABLY
GET, BY COMING ONTO YOUR SHOW,
10 YEARS OR MORE FOR SUBVERTING
STATE POWER.

Steve says SO YOU DON'T WANT TO
GO THERE RIGHT NOW, ACTUALLY.

Emily says NO, I DON'T.
I DON'T WANT TO BE LOCKED UP FOR
10 OR 15 YEARS.

Steve says EXACTLY.

Emily says BUT I STILL SPEAK UP, AND
THERE COULD BE HORRIBLE
CONSEQUENCES.
THAT'S WHY PEOPLE IN HONG KONG
ARE SO FEARFUL.

Steve says YOU MENTIONED CARRIE
LAM, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE IN HONG KONG.
WHAT SHOULD SHE DO NOW?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."
Then, it changes again to "Emily Lau, @EmilyLauWH."

Emily says WELL, SHE SHOULD GO.
SHE SHOULD RESIGN.
HAVING CAUSED THE BIGGEST CRISIS
IN HONG KONG'S HISTORY, AND OF
COURSE SHE SHOULD TELL BEIJING,
URGE BEIJING, TO LISTEN TO THE
WISHES OF THE PEOPLE.
AND WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR
INDEPENDENCE, STEVE.
DON'T GET ME WRONG.
BEIJING HAS BEEN OUT SMEARING
US, SAYING, OH, THESE ARE
SEPARATISTS.
THEY JUST WANT TO BREAK AWAY
FROM THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF
CHINA.
THERE MAY BE A SMALL NUMBER WHO
DO.
BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE
HONG KONG PEOPLE JUST WANT
BEIJING TO KEEP THE PROMISE.

Steve says THE PROMISE FROM
1997 BEING...

Emily says GIVING HONG KONG A HIGH
DEGREE OF AUTONOMY UNDER THEIR
POLICY OF ONE COUNTRY-TWO SYSTEMS.
MAYBE THE CANADIANS DON'T KNOW
WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT.

Steve says NO, I THINK WE DO,
ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE KIND OF
LIVE IT TOO.
WE HAVE FRENCH AND ENGLISH THAT
HAS BEEN A FEATURE OF OUR
RELATIONS HERE FOR 150-PLUS
YEARS.

Emily says YEAH.
BUT OURS IS JUST TO LET US
CONTINUE WITH OUR FREE
LIFESTYLE, WHICH MANY PEOPLE IN
THE MAINLAND DO NOT HAVE.
AND TO HAVE THE RULE OF LAW AND
PERSONAL SAFETY.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT
BEIJING PROMISED.
BUT NOW IT SEEMS BEIJING IS
INTERFERING IN OUR LIFESTYLE
LEFT AND RIGHT AND CENTRE.
PEOPLE ARE VERY FEARFUL.
AND THEN THE EXTRADITION BILL
WHICH SPARKED OFF THIS SIX
MONTHS OF TURMOIL, WHICH IS NOT
ENDING, HAS MADE PEOPLE VERY
SCARED.

Steve says TELL US WHAT'S IN
THAT BILL.

Emily says THEY WANT TO SEND US TO
MAINLAND CHINA FOR TRIAL IF THEY
ARE CRIMES THAT EXIST IN BOTH
PLACES, AND PEOPLE SAY NO WAY!
OVER THERE IT'S COMPLETE
LAWLESSNESS.
AND I SPEAK WITH SOME AUTHORITY,
STEVE.
BECAUSE I AM ON THE BOARD OF
DIRECTORS OF THE CHINA HUMAN
RIGHTS LAWYERS CONCERN GROUP.
WE FORMED THE GROUP IN HONG KONG
TO SUPPORT THE HUMAN RIGHTS
LAWYERS IN CHINA.
THEY ARE BEING PERSECUTED VERY
BADLY.
BUT THEY ARE VERY BRAVE.
THEY ARE NOT FLEEING THE
COUNTRY.
THEY STAY AND FIGHT.
AND FOR CHINA TO GO FORWARD, IT
NEEDS THE RULE OF LAW.
AND FOR THAT, YOU NEED TRULY
INDEPENDENT LAWYERS.
THERE ARE MORE THAN 200,000
LAWYERS IN CHINA.
BUT ONLY ABOUT 300 HUMAN RIGHTS
LAWYERS, WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT
GETTING RICH, AND THEY ARE NOT
POLITICAL.
THEY ARE JUST DEFENDING ORDINARY
PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR HOMES
TAKEN AWAY, CHILDREN FED WITH,
YOU KNOW, POISONED MILK POWDER,
AND THEY GET PERSECUTED.
AND WE SUPPORT THEM.
AND THEY SAY: YOU, HONG KONG,
YOU MUST PRESERVE A FREE AND
VIBRANT HONG KONG WHICH HAS THE
RULE OF LAW.
AND THAT'S POSSIBLE.
IT WOULD NOT JUST BE GOOD FOR
HONG KONG BUT GOOD FOR CHINA AND
GOOD FOR THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY.
DO YOU NOT WANT TO SEE A
CIVILIZED MEMBER OF THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY?

Steve says I DO INDEED.

Emily says AND WE HAVE TO HELP TO BRING
THAT ABOUT.

Steve says DID THEY NOT PULL
THE EXTRADITION BILL THAT YOU
REFERRED TO, THOUGH?

Emily says OF COURSE.

Steve says THEN WHY ARE THE
PROTESTS PERSISTING IF THE BILL
HAS BEEN PULLED?

Emily says BUT THAT WAS AFTER A FEW
MONTHS OF PROTESTS AND CLASHES
WITH THE POLICE, AND YOU MUST
HAVE SEEN THE POLICE BRUTALITY
ON YOUR SCREEN.

Steve says OF COURSE.

The caption changes to "Street protests."

Emily says AND SO THAT THING, BECAUSE OF
THE BRUTALITY, SO MANY PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND INJURED.
SO IT'S MORPHED INTO THIS BIG
DEMAND FOR REFORM OF THE POLICE
FORCE FOR INVESTIGATION OF HOW
COME THEY BEHAVE IN SUCH A
BARBARIC WAY.

Steve says OKAY, BUT I SEE TWO
DIFFERENT THINGS ON MY
TELEVISION SET WHEN I WATCH THE
INTERNATIONAL NEWS, AND YOU TELL
ME ABOUT THIS.
OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A HUGE CHUNK
OF PROTESTERS WHO WANT TO
PEACEFULLY PROTEST AND MAKE
THEIR VOICES HEARD.
I MEAN, I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THIS.
THERE'S A SMALLER GROUP THAT
WANT TO DAMAGE PROPERTY AND WANT
TO BE MORE VIOLENT, AND WHAT DID
YOU DO ABOUT THEM?

Emily says WELL, I THINK INITIALLY THEY
WERE NOT VIOLENT.
BUT THEN WHEN THE POLICE STARTED
BEATING UP PEOPLE AND SO ON, SO
THEY GOT VERY ANGRY, AND THEY
HAVE TO EXPRESS THEIR ANGER.
I SPEAK AS SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER
ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE, BUT I CAN
UNDERSTAND.
AND THEY ARE PUTTING THEIR OWN
LIFE AT STAKE.
AND THE POLICE RESPONDED BY
ESCALATING THE LEVEL OF
VIOLENCE.
SO CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT THE
POLICE, WHICH IS FULLY ARMED,
AND THESE PEOPLE JUST HAVE A
LITTLE FACE MASK AND SO ON,
AGAINST THE POLICE?
I MEAN, IT IS TERRIBLE.

Steve says NO, I'M NOT SAYING
IT'S A FAIR FIGHT.
BUT WHEN YOU STORM THE
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY AND YOU
DEFILE THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,
IF YOU'RE GOING FOR THE HEARTS
AND MINDS OF THE PUBLIC, THERE
WERE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO
DID NOT LIKE TO SEE THAT, RIGHT?

Emily says TRUE.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
ONE OF THE GRAVITY THEY SCRAWLED
ON THE WALL AFTER THEY STORMED
IN, THEY SAID, IT IS YOU WHO
TAUGHT US PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION
IS USELESS.
TERRIBLE, ISN'T IT?
TERRIBLE.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
SOME OF THE RESPONSES FROM OTHER
COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD AND WE'LL
START WITH THE UNITED STATES,
BECAUSE THE AMERICAN CONGRESS
HAS PASSED THE HONG KONG HUMAN
RIGHTS AND DEMOCRACY ACT.
AND IN YOUR VIEW, HOW DOES THAT
CHANGE THE STATE OF PLAY?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."
Then, it changes again to "The response from abroad."

Emily says WELL, I HOPE IT WILL SEND A
VERY UNAMBIGUOUS SIGNAL TO
BEIJING AND TO THE PEOPLE, THE
OFFICIALS IN HONG KONG, AND THE
POLICE, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY
REALLY CONTINUE TO UNDERMINE
HUMAN RIGHTS IN HONG KONG AND
THE RULE OF LAW AND ALL THAT,
THEY COULD BE TARGETED.
THEY COULD BE PUNISHED.
AND IF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT,
THE ADMINISTRATION...

Steve says HE SIGNED IT.
THE PRESIDENT SIGNED THE BILL.

Emily says BUT HE HAS TO MOVE TO
SAY, "AH, JOE BLOW, YOU ARE TARGETED.
YOU CANNOT ENTER THE U.S. OR
YOUR ASSETS WILL BE FROZEN."
AND I THINK IT WOULD SEND CHILLS
DOWN THE SPINE OF MANY PEOPLE.
I'M SURE YOU KNOW MANY OF THEM
WITHIN HONG KONG OR IN MAINLAND
CHINA, THEY HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIVING IN THE U.S., PROPERTIES
IN THE U.S., AND IF SUDDENLY
THEY FIND OUT THEY COULD BE
TARGETED, THEY COULD BE BANNED
OR THEIR PROPERTIES AND ASSETS
WOULD BE FROZEN, WOW, I THINK
THAT'S A POWERFUL THING.

Steve says THAT WOULD GET THEIR
ATTENTION.
IT'S ONE THING TO PASS THE LAW,
BUT THEY NOW HAVE TO ENFORCE IT,
IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

Emily says THAT'S RIGHT.
AND I SAW ON THE NEWS THIS
MORNING, SAME PRESIDENT TRUMP
WHO WANTS TO HAVE A TRADE DEAL
WITH CHINA, MAY PROBABLY TELL
PRESIDENT XI JINPING, DON'T
WORRY, YOU KNOW, I WILL NOT USE
IT.
UNLESS, OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE
REALLY TOO BRUTAL.
BUT OTHERWISE, DON'T WORRY, IT
WILL BE JUST LIKE WINDOW
DRESSING THERE.

Steve says WAIT A SECOND.
ARE YOU SAYING PRESIDENT TRUMP
MIGHT ACTUALLY SAY SOMETHING
THAT HE DOESN'T MEAN?

Emily says HE DOES IT EVERY DAY, MY DEAR
FRIEND.
WERE YOU BORN YESTERDAY?

Steve says I AM BEING
FACETIOUS, MY DEAR.

Emily says I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD DO
THAT ON YOUR PROGRAM.

Steve says NEXT QUESTION: CHINA
HATES IT WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES
INTERFERE IN THEIR INTERNAL
DEALINGS.
DO YOU THINK THE AMERICANS ARE
POSSIBLY, UNWISELY, IF THEY WANT
GOOD RELATIONS WITH CHINA,
INTERFERING IN CHINA'S INTERNAL DEALINGS?

Emily says WELL, I THINK, ACTUALLY,
MAYBE YOU SAY IT'S INTERFERING,
BUT IT IS AN ACT OF CONGRESS, AN
ACT OF THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES, WITHIN HIS SOVEREIGN
RIGHT.
AND THEY ALSO INTERFERE IN YOUR
COUNTRY.
JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, THE CHINESE
AMBASSADOR HERE TOLD YOUR
GOVERNMENT OFF.
"NOW, DON'T FOLLOW THE U.S.
OTHERWISE, THERE COULD BE DIRE
CONSEQUENCES."
SEE?
THEY KEEP INTERFERING IN OTHER
PEOPLE'S BUSINESS, AND THEN THEY
TELL PEOPLE NOT TO INTERFERE IN
THEIR BUSINESS.
BUT, TO ME, MY DEAR FRIEND,
HUMAN RIGHTS, DEMOCRACY, AND THE
RULE OF LAW, UNIVERSAL VALUES,
THEY TRANSCEND NATIONAL
BOUNDARIES.
PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE A
DUTY TO SPEAK OUT WHEN THEY SEE
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS TAKING
PLACE ELSEWHERE.
SO I WOULD NOT REGARD THAT AS
INTERFERENCE.
I HAVE TRAVELLED TO THE UNITED
NATIONS TO OBSERVE HEARINGS ON
HONG KONG, AND I'VE TOLD
DIFFERENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS, AND
THEY ALL AGREE, IT'S NOT
INTERFERENCE.
YOU ALL HAVE A DUTY TO SPEAK
OUT.
AND THEN I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY
TELL YOUR GOVERNMENT, THE
CHINESE AMBASSADOR TOLD YOUR
GOVERNMENT, "NOW, DON'T FOLLOW
THE AMERICANS.
DON'T ACT TO PUNISH CHINESE
OFFICIALS."
DO YOU REGARD THAT AS
INTERFERENCE IN CANADIAN AFFAIRS?

Steve says WELL, WE KNOW THAT
FOR THE FIRST FOUR YEARS OF
JUSTIN TRUDEAU'S PRIME
MINISTERSHIP, THINGS GOT OFF THE
RAILS WITH CHINA, A RELATIONSHIP
THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRETTY
GOOD FROM THE BEGINNING GOT
PRETTY TERRIBLE PRETTY QUICKLY
FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.
SO I THINK CANADA IS... CANADA
IS CERTAINLY LISTENING TO CHINA
IN TERMS OF HOW TO PUT THE
RELATIONSHIP BACK INTO THE WAY
IT COULD PROPERLY BE.
YOU WERE AT THE HALIFAX SECURITY
FORUM, RIGHT?

Emily says YEAH.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU
SUGGEST... I MEAN, I PRESUME YOU
LEFT OUR GOVERNMENT WITH A
MESSAGE AS TO HOW YOU THINK WE
SHOULD PROCEED?

Emily says YOUR DEFENCE MINISTER WAS
THERE AND I SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU
HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU
BELIEVE IN.
WELL, WE GOT THE JOHN McCAIN
PRIZE, AND THIS IS WHAT JOHN
McCAIN IS ALL ABOUT: SPEAKING OUT.
HAVE THE COURAGE.

She holds up a shiny metal plate with an engraving in the shape of a man's silhouette and the inscription "The John McCain prize for leadership in public service."

Emily continues AND I TOLD YOUR DEFENCE
MINISTER, I SAID, YOU SHOULD DO THAT.
AND IF YOU SPEAK OUT FOR HONG
KONG, IT'S NOT JUST FOR HONG
KONG, MY DEAR FRIEND, ALTHOUGH
YOU'VE NOT BEEN THERE.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE 300,000
CANADIANS, CITIZENS, LIVING AND
WORKING IN HONG KONG.
AND OVER A THOUSAND CANADIAN
COMPANIES.
SO YOU ARE HELPING YOUR OWN
PEOPLE AS WELL AS HELPING THE
7 MILLION.
SO OF COURSE YOU SHOULD DO THAT.
AND I HOPE YOUR PRIME MINISTER,
ALTHOUGH I'VE BEEN HERE FOR JUST
A FEW DAYS IN HALIFAX AND NOW IN
TORONTO, THE CANADIANS I'VE MET,
THEY ALL SAY, "GEE, OUR PRIME
MINISTER IS SO SPINELESS AND
SO... SO TIMID."
BUT OF COURSE THE BUSINESS
PEOPLE ARE TELLING HIM, "PRIME
MINISTER, WE WANT TO SELL PORK,
SELL LOBSTERS, SELL GAS TO
CHINA..." NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

Steve says EMILY THERE ARE TWO
CANADIANS IN JAIL AS WELL IN BEIJING.

Emily says HE WANTS TO GET THEM OUT.

Steve says OF COURSE HE DOES.

Emily says BUT YOU KNOW THE CHINESE.
I'M SURE YOU KNOW THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT...

Steve says WELL, THEY DON'T
RESPECT WEAKNESS, DO THEY?

Emily says EXACTLY.
YOU HAVE TO SPEAK WITH TOUGHNESS
AND FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN.
AND AS DONALD TRUMP WOULD SAY,
YOU DO A DEAL.
YOU DON'T JUST SAY, OKAY, WE
SELL YOU PORK, YOU GIVE US
MONEY.
FORGET ABOUT THE TWO MICHAELS.
FORGET ABOUT CANADIAN DIGNITY
AND ALL THESE THINGS THAT WE
BELIEVE IN.
NO.
YOU ARE IN POWER.
YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO STRIKE A
BALANCE.
YOU JUST CANNOT CAVE IN TO ALL
THE BUSINESS LOBBY'S DEMANDS.
AND TO HELL WITH WHAT THE
CANADIAN PEOPLE WANT.
AND MANY CANADIANS, I'M SURE YOU
KNOW BETTER THAN I DO, THEY WANT
THESE UNIVERSAL VALUES.
NOT JUST HERE, BUT ALSO FOR YOUR
CITIZENS IN HONG KONG AND
ELSEWHERE.
SO THEY WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO
STAND UP AND SPEAK FOR THEM.
AND WHAT DO YOU THINK CHINA WILL
DO?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
WHY IS THE GOVERNMENT HERE SO
SCARED?
YOU TELL ME.

Steve says WELL, THEY'RE SCARED
THAT SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN
TO THE TWO MICHAELS WHO ARE IN
PRISON IN BEIJING AND THEY ARE
TERRIFIED THAT CHINA WILL
CONTINUE TO FLEX THEIR
ECONOMIC... THEY'RE A BILLION
PEOPLE, WORTH 35 MILLION,
36 MILLION...

Emily says 37.

Steve says 37.
THEY'RE TERRIFIED CHINA MIGHT
SAY WE'LL NEVER BUY YOUR GOODS
EVER AGAIN.
EVERY PRIME MINISTER NEEDS TO
KEEP AN EYE ON THE BOTTOM LINE.
IT'S A FACT.

Emily says OF COURSE.
YOU HAVE TO BALANCE VARIOUS
THINGS.
YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN SWEDEN
LAST WEEK?
BOOK SELLERS, MANY WERE ABDUCTED
TO CHINA.
ONE IS A SWEDISH CITIZEN.
HE'S STILL LOCKED UP IN CHINA.
AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
OFFERED AN AWARD TO HIM.
OF COURSE, HE CAN'T GO AND
SELECT IT.
THE CEREMONY WAS IN STOCKHOLM.
AND THE CHINESE TOLD THE SWEDISH
GOVERNMENT, "DON'T GO AND ATTEND
THE CEREMONY."
WHAT HAPPENED?
THE CULTURE MINISTER ATTENDED,
THIS LADY MADE A LONG SPEECH,
AND CHINA SAID, "OKAY, YOU WILL
BE BANNED.
YOU AND OFFICIALS FROM THE
MINISTRY CANNOT GO TO CHINA."
AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF SWEDEN
SAID: "WE HAVE FREEDOM OF
EXPRESSION IN THIS COUNTRY.
SWEDEN MAY BE SMALLER THAN CANADA."

Steve says MUCH, YES.

Emily says SO I DON'T WANT YOU AND YOUR
COUNTRY TO SEND OUT THE MESSAGE
TO BEIJING THAT IF WE ARE SMALL,
WE ARE 30-ODD MILLION, WE ARE AT
YOUR MERCY.
WOW, GEE.
WHAT SORT OF A MESSAGE IS THAT,
MY DEAR FRIEND?
YOU DON'T WANT TO SEND THAT
MESSAGE.

Steve says SO DEVELOP A SPINE,
IS YOUR MESSAGE.

Emily says I THINK SO.
AND HAVE DIGNITY.
AND DEFEND THE INTERESTS OF THE
CANADIANS.
NO, I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T.

Steve says YOU PICKED THAT
PLATE UP QUICKLY AND I DID WANT
TO BRING A LITTLE MORE ATTENTION
TO IT BECAUSE YOU DID WIN THE
JOHN McCAIN PRIZE FOR
LEADERSHIP IN PUBLIC SERVICE.

Emily says NO, IT'S FOR THE HONG KONG
PEOPLE, MY DEAR FRIEND.

She shows the plate again.

Steve says YOU'RE HOLDING ON THE IT.
YOU HAVE IT RIGHT NOW.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW,
OBVIOUSLY IT WAS NAMED AFTER THE
FORMER ARIZONA SENATOR WHO WAS A
LEADING LIGHT FOR MANY, MANY
DECADES IN AMERICAN POLITICAL
LIFE, AND I'M INTERESTED IN HOW
SIGNIFICANT YOU THINK THAT IS TO
YOUR CAUSE.

Emily says WELL, I THINK IT'S VERY
SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT IS
REALLY, ESPECIALLY AT THIS VERY
CRITICAL JUNCTURE, WHEN PEOPLE
ARE FIGHTING ON THE STREET, ARE
BEING TEAR GASSED EVERY DAY, AND
SUDDENLY THIS THING CROPPED UP
AND THEY OFFERED IT TO THE HONG
KONG PEOPLE.
AND MRS. CINDY McCAIN ACTUALLY
PRESENTED IT TO US, ME AND
MR. CHAN, AND SAID IT'S NOT JUST
FOR THE HONG KONG PEOPLE.
IT'S FOR PEOPLE ALL OVER THE
WORLD WHO ARE ENGAGED IN
STRUGGLE FOR DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN
RIGHTS.
AND I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.
AND IT'S GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
BEING TEAR GASSED EVERY DAY IN
THE STREETS, BEATEN UP BY THE
POLICE, TO KNOW THAT THEY HAVE
FRIENDS IN OTHER PLACES WHO
SUPPORT US, FRIENDS WHO DON'T
JUST CARE ABOUT MAKING MONEY,
WHO DON'T JUST CARE ABOUT
PLEASING BEIJING SO THAT THEY
CAN HAVE A GOOD LIFE.
SO I THINK IT'S VERY GOOD.
AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE IT BACK
TO HONG KONG.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT IT
BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE HONG KONG
PEOPLE, SO WE CAN'T JUST PUT IT
IN OUR OFFICE.

Steve says I DO WANT TO ASK YOU
IN OUR REMAINING MOMENTS HERE,
YES, THE DEMONSTRATIONS HAVE
GOTTEN VIOLENT.
THE POLICE REACTION TO THE
DEMONSTRATIONS HAS BEEN VERY
UPSETTING.
BUT YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED
30 YEARS AGO IN TIANANMEN
SQUARE, AND WHEN THE CHINESE
GOVERNMENT WANTS TO REACT WITH
BRUTAL FORCE, THEY HAVE, THEY
CAN, AND THEY WILL, AND I WONDER
HOW WORRIED YOU ARE ABOUT THE
PROTESTS TURNING GENUINELY FATAL?

The caption changes to "Beijing's next move."

Emily says WELL, OF COURSE.
WITH THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, NO
ONE CAN RULE ANYTHING OUT.

Steve says RIGHT.

Emily says BECAUSE IF YOU DID, YOU WOULD
SAY, EMILY, THERE'S SOMETHING
WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN.
SO I WOULD NOT.
BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP TELLING THEM
NOT TO DO IT, AND THE CANADIAN
GOVERNMENT, THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY, AND DONALD TRUMP
SHOULD KEEP TELLING THEM, "HEY,
DON'T DO IT."
WE DON'T WANT A TIANANMEN IN
HONG KONG.
WE DON'T WANT TO SEE RIVERS OF
BLOOD FLOWING IN HONG KONG.
SO WE HAVE TO KEEP TELLING THEM.
AND THERE I THINK, ALTHOUGH
THEY'RE GETTING RICHER AND
RICHER, I THINK THEY STILL NEED
HONG KONG.
THERE MAY COME A DAY WHERE THEY
DON'T.
SO WE HAVE TO KEEP REMINDING
THEM.
AND OF COURSE I WANT EVERYBODY
TO DIAL DOWN, DEESCALATE.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO
RESPOND TO THE VERY LEGITIMATE
DEMANDS OF THE PEOPLE.
OTHERWISE, LIKE A BAD PENNY,
THEY'LL KEEP TURNING UP AND THEN
MAYBE I'LL COME BACK TO YOUR
SHOW SIX MONTHS LATER, "EMILY,
THIS IS ONE YEAR LATER ALREADY.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
THE PEOPLE WILL NOT STOP.
WHY?
BECAUSE THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR
THEIR FUTURE, MY DEAR FRIEND.
FIGHTING FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, RULE
OF LAW, AND DEMOCRACY.

Steve says WHICH WE HAVE HERE.

Emily says AND I HOPE YOU WILL ALWAYS
HAVE IT BECAUSE THE LESSON FROM
HONG KONG IS THAT SOMETHING YOU
THOUGHT, SO PEACEFUL, SO SAFE,
DEMOCRACY, THE RULE OF LAW, AND
WITHIN A FEW MONTHS, IT CAN
COMPLETE JUST BE DISMANTLED
BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES.
SO IT'S A LESSON FOR PEOPLE ALL
OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING OUR
FRIENDS IN CANADA.

The caption changes to "Producer: Colin Ellis, @ColinEllis81."

Steve says ABSOLUTELY.
EMILY LAU, WE'RE GRATEFUL YOU
SPARED SOME TIME FOR US ON YOUR
VISIT TO CANADA.
STAY SAFE WHEN YOU GO HOME.
WE'LL BE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME
YOU BACK HERE AGAIN WHEN YOU
RETURN TO CANADA.

Emily says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Steve says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Emily says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Watch: The Crisis in Hong Kong