Transcript: Where the Parties Stand on Climate Change | Oct 10, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a black suit, white shirt, and spotted gray tie.

A caption on screen reads "Where the parties stand on climate change. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says IT'S BEEN ON THE
POLITICAL RADAR FOR A LONG TIME.
BUT CLIMATE CHANGE HAS NEVER
BEEN FRONT AND CENTRE THE WAY IT
HAS BEEN IN THIS ELECTION CYCLE.
IT DOMINATED THE DEBATE THIS
WEEK, AND IT'S ONE OF THE TOPICS
THAT NO PARTY COULD AFFORD TO
LEAVE OUT OF ITS PLATFORM.
HERE TO ASSESS WHAT'S ON OFFER
ACROSS THE SPECTRUM:
CATHERINE ABREU, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE CLIMATE ACTION
NETWORK CANADA...

Catherine is in her thirties, with chin-length curly blond hair. She's wearing a blue shirt.

Steve continues MICHAEL BERNSTEIN, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR AT THE NATIONAL
NON-PROFIT CLEAN PROSPERITY...

Michael is in his late thirties, with short gray hair and a trimmed beard. He's wearing a gray suit and a blue shirt.

Steve continues TYRONE HALL, ADVISOR TO THE
ALLIANCE OF SMALL ISLAND
DEVELOPING STATES, AOSIS FOR
SHORT, AND A POSTDOCTORAL
RESEARCH FELLOW AT YORK
UNIVERSITY...

Tyrone is in his thirties, bald, with a trimmed mustache. He's wearing a gray suit and a pink shirt.

Steve continues ANDREW BRANDER, SENIOR
CONSULTANT WITH CRESTVIEW
STRATEGY...

Andrew is in his thirties, with short dark hair and a stubble. He's wearing glasses, a blue suit and a pale blue shirt.

Steve continues AND FATIMA SYED, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER FOR THE NATIONAL OBSERVER.

Fatima is in her early thirties, with long straight black hair. She's wearing a gray blazer, white blouse and silver pendant necklace.

Steve continues IT'S GOOD TO HAVE EVERYBODY BACK HERE.
WELCOME BACK.
AND WELCOME BACK TO YOU.
AND WELCOME FOR THE FIRST TIME
TO THE OTHER THREE OF YOU.
CATHERINE, TO YOU FIRST.
IS CLIMATE CHANGE THE DEFINING
ISSUE OF THIS ELECTION, IN YOUR VIEW?

The caption changes to "Catherine Abreu. Climate Action Network Canada."

Catherine says IT SURE IS.
LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO PRETEND
THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE ONLY
THING THAT CANADIAN VOTERS CARE
ABOUT.
WE KNOW OF COURSE THAT HEALTH
CARE AND AFFORDABILITY ARE HIGH
ON THE LIST.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE
SUBSTANTIVE POLICY ISSUES THAT
ARE BEING DISCUSSED IN AN
ELECTION THAT IS OTHERWISE
CHARACTERIZED BY MUD-SLINGING
AND NAME-CALLING, I'M SEEING
CLIMATE TOP THE LIST ON THAT.

Steve says TYRONE, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING?

The caption changes to "Tyrone Hall. Alliance of Small Island Developing States."

Tyrone says IT'S A HIGH
PRIORITY ISSUE BUT I WOULDN'T GO
AS FAR AS CATHERINE.
THE SPIRIT OF THE DEBATE SO FAR
CERTAINLY ENCOURAGES ME.

Steve says MICHAEL?

The caption changes to "Michael Bernstein. Clean Prosperity."

Michael says I THINK
CLIMATE IS COMPETING WITH
AFFORDABILITY RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING
CANADIANS SAY CLIMATE CHANGE IS
A HUGE PRIORITY AND AT THE SAME
TIME YOU'RE SEEING SOME
CANADIANS SAY I DON'T WANT TO
PAY FOR CLIMATE ACTION.
WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE THE PARTIES
REALLY PIVOT TO IS TO SAY, LOOK,
THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN
TACKLE THIS PROBLEM IN A WAY
THAT'S PRO-GROWTH, IN A WAY
THAT'S AFFORDABLE FOR FAMILIES,
AND ONE IS THE CARBON TAX AND
REBATE THAT PERHAPS WE'LL GET
INTO.

Steve says FATIMA, IN YOUR
VIEW, HAS CLIMATE CHANGE BEEN
HANDS DOWN THE ISSUE OF THE
CAMPAIGN?

The caption changes to "Fatima Syed. National Observer."
Then, it changes again to "An election issue."

Fatima says I DON'T THINK
IT'S THE ISSUE OF THE CAMPAIGN
BUT I THINK IT'S THE FIRST TIME
THAT AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN HAS
SEEN CLIMATE REACH THE BALLOT
BOX AND I THINK THAT IS
FASCINATING AND INTERESTING AND
A REFLECTION OF THE TIMES WE'RE IN.

Steve says ANDREW?

The caption changes to "Andrew Brander. Crestview Strategy."

Andrew says WE ALL AGREE.
PROBABLY TOP FIVE ISSUES.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS IN THAT TOP FIVE,
BUT NEVER ISSUE NUMBER ONE.

Steve says DO YOU FIND, LIKE,
DO YOU REGRET THAT, GIVEN THAT
OBVIOUSLY MANY, MANY PEOPLE
BELIEVE THIS IS THE ISSUE OF OUR TIMES?

Andrew says NO, I DON'T.
I PERSONALLY DON'T.
I DON'T THINK IT'S MY NUMBER ONE
ISSUE AS A VOTER.
I THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT
CHALLENGE THAT NEEDS TO BE
ADDRESSED, AND I'M REALLY GLAD
TO SEE THAT EVERY PARTY HAS A
SUBSTANTIAL PLAN TO ADDRESS IT.
THE CREDIBILITY OF THOSE PLANS
VARY FROM PARTY TO PARTY, BUT I
DO THINK THE ISSUE OF
AFFORDABILITY IS NUMBER ONE, AND
UNTIL WE CAN GET TO A PLACE
WHERE THOSE TWO ISSUES CAN
RECONCILE THEMSELVES IN A
BALANCED AND PRAGMATIC MANNER,
THEN YOU'RE GOING TO SEE
AFFORDABILITY ALWAYS TOP THE
CLIMATE.

Steve says CATHERINE, I DON'T
SEE STEAM COMING OUT OF YOUR
EARS BUT I THINK IT'S INVISIBLE,
BUT IT IS.
WHEN YOU HEAR PEOPLE SAY,
AFFORDABILITY IS FAR MORE
IMPORTANT THAN THE EXISTENCE OF
THE PLANET, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO YOU?

The caption changes to "Catherine Abreu, @cat_abreu."

Catherine says I MEAN, I
RECOLLECT SOME OF THE AMAZING
LEADERSHIP WE HEAR FROM
INTERNATIONAL TRADE UNIONS WHEN
THEY SAY THERE ARE NO JOBS ON A
DEAD PLANET.
SO WHETHER WE CAN, YOU KNOW,
AFFORD THE COST OF DAILY LIVING,
THAT'S A BIG CONCERN TO ME AS
WELL, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE THAT
I'M NOT ONLY THINKING ABOUT THE
NEXT DAY BUT ABOUT THE NEXT YEAR
AND THE NEXT DECADE, AND CLIMATE
CHANGE IS REALLY ESSENTIAL TO
PROTECTING THE FUTURE OF MY
ABILITY TO ACTUALLY LIVE ON THIS
PLANET, AND I WOULDN'T AGREE
ALSO THAT EVERY PARTY HAS PUT
FORWARD A SUBSTANTIAL CLIMATE
PLATFORM.
WE HAVE SEEN EACH OF THE MAJOR
PARTIES AGREE THAT CLIMATE
CHANGE IS AN ISSUE THAT THEY
HAVE TO DEAL WITH, BUT ONE OF
THE PARTIES HAS PUT FORWARD A
PLATFORM THAT IS FAR FROM
SUBSTANTIAL, IN MY OPINION.

Steve says WHICH ONE?

Catherine says THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY.

Steve says I THOUGHT YOU WERE
GOING TO SAY THE PEOPLE'S PARTY?

Catherine says WELL, THE PEOPLE'S PARTY OF
CANADA DOESN'T BELIEVE IN
CLIMATE CHANGE ALTOGETHER, SO WE
CAN JUST KIND OF KNOCK THEM OFF
THE LIST OF PARTIES TO CONSIDER
ON THIS ISSUE.

Steve says ERIN KELLY IS A
FREQUENT GUEST ON THIS PROGRAM
AND SHE JUST DOESN'T SURVEY JUST
A THOUSAND OR 1500 PEOPLE
OVERNIGHT TO FIND OUT WHAT
CANADIANS ARE THINKING, SHE
SURVEYS WITH POLLY, HER
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
ALGORITHM, 300,000 PEOPLE ALL
THE TIME AND PICKS UP ENGAGEMENT
IN MANY WAYS AND HERE IS WHAT
SHE HAS HAD TO SAY ON THIS
PROGRAM IN THE PAST ABOUT WHAT
THE PUBLIC HAS TO SAY ON CLIMATE
CHANGE.
SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD, ROLL THE
CLIP?

A clip plays on screen with the caption "September 27, 2019."
In the clip, Steve talks to Erin Kelly.

Steve says IF ENERGY AFFORDABILITY AS
OPPOSED TO ENVIRONMENTAL
INTEGRITY AND SO ON ARE WHAT
PEOPLE ARE PICKING UP ON MORE,
WHAT DO YOU THINK POLITICIANS
SHOULD TAKE AWAY FROM THAT
NUGGET OF INFORMATION?

Erin, in her forties, with long blond hair, says
THAT WHATEVER
CLIMATE CHANGE SOLUTIONS ARE
BEING PROPOSED, THEY NEED TO BE
PROPOSED IN A FISCALLY ALERT
MANNER.
SO PEOPLE ARE VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT COST, THE COST OF THESE
PROGRAMS.
THEY WANT TO SEE PROGRAMS IN
THERE BUT THEY WANT TO SEE A
WHOLE PACKAGE, HOW IS THIS GOING
TO WORK?
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK OF,
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T JUST TAX ME
ON THESE THINGS.
WHAT'S THE REPLACEMENT?
HOW AM I GETTING TO WORK?
HOW AM I HEATING MY HOME?
SO IT NEEDS TO BE A WHOLESOME
DISCUSSION AND NOT JUST THIS IN
ISOLATION AND THAT IN ISOLATION.

The clip ends.

Steve says ANDREW, THAT'S
BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, ISN'T IT?

The caption changes to "Andrew Brander, @brander."

Andrew says THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
IF YOU LOOK AT ANY OF THE RECENT
POLLS AS WELL, THEY'LL INDICATE
CLOSE TO 50 percent OF PEOPLE DON'T
EVEN WANT TO SPEND A SINGLE CENT
MORE ON INITIATIVES.
THEY AGREE WITH THE IMPORTANCE
OF IT, BUT ONCE YOU START
APPLYING A PRICE POINT TO THE
COST OF THOSE PROMISES, THAT'S
WHERE YOU START TO LOSE PEOPLE,
AND ONCE YOU'RE UP TO THE 100 dollar
VALUE, MOST PEOPLE WILL SAY, 80 percent
IN FACT WILL SAY THAT THEY'RE
NOT WILLING TO SPEND THAT AMOUNT
ON THESE INITIATIVES.

Steve says TYRONE, YOUR VIEW ON
WHAT ERIN HAD TO SAY?

The caption changes to "Tyrone Hall. York University. @Tyrone876."

Tyrone says I THINK
THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION THAT
THERE'S A PROHIBITIVE TAX
ELEMENT TO CLIMATE CHANGE, AND I
THINK CATHERINE HAS SAID THIS.
COST IS NO LONGER A PROHIBITIVE
FACTOR IN TRANSITIONING WHICH IS
THE UNDERLYING ISSUE DEALING
WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.
SO WHAT THE POLICYMAKERS OUGHT
TO DO IS TO PRESENT THE CLIMATE
CHANGE CHALLENGE AS A
COMPREHENSIVE ECONOMIC
RETHINKING, REFORM OPPORTUNITY.
BECAUSE CLIMATE ACTION IS REALLY
ABOUT DOING THINGS WE HAVE TO DO
ANYWAY.
YOU KNOW, SO THE
CLIMATE-PROOFING OF PORTS OR
FOOD SYSTEMS, IT'S CREATING NEW
JOBS, IT'S ALL AN OPPORTUNITY.
IT'S NOT JUST A COST FACTOR.
SO SUGGESTING THAT THE MONEY YOU
PAY UPFRONT IS THE TOTALITY OF
THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE
ACTION IS SHORT-SIGHTED AND NOT
A COMPLETE PICTURE OF WHAT'S
TAKING PLACE.

Steve says IT DOESN'T TAKE INTO
ACCOUNT OTHER COSTS DOWN THE
ROAD, FOR EXAMPLE?

Tyrone says THERE ARE OTHER COSTS AND
GAINS DOWN THE ROAD THAT CAN BE
ACCOUNTED FOR.

Steve says OKAY.
BUT, MICHAEL, AND THAT'S WHERE
CANADIANS ARE, AND ERIN'S
POLLING IS USUALLY PRETTY BANG
ON, YOU OKAY WITH THAT?

The caption changes to "Michael Bernstein, @bernstein_micha."

Michael says WELL,
CANADIANS HAVE OPTIONS THAT
ALLOW THEM TO TAKE CLIMATE
ACTION AND DO IT IN AN
AFFORDABLE WAY.
SO EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT THIS
POLLING THAT ANDREW IS CITING,
THE REALITY IS, THIS CORE TOOL,
THE CARBON TAX AND REBATES,
ALLOWS US TO ACTUALLY ACHIEVE
THOSE ENDS.
WE KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THE
PEOPLE IN ONTARIO, 80 percent OF THEM
ARE GOING TO GET MORE BACK IN
REBATES THAN THEY PAY IN CARBON
TAX, AND REALLY IT'S ONLY THE
20 percent WEALTHIEST HOUSEHOLDS THAT
ON AVERAGE ARE GOING TO PAY
ANYTHING OUT OF POCKET.
SO WE HAVE TOOLS AVAILABLE TO
US, AND QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVE TO
AGREE WITH CAT ON THE FACT THAT
WE HAVE THREE OF THE MAJOR
PARTIES SUPPORTING THIS POLICY
AND WE HAVE ONE PARTY, THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY, WHO SAID
THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY THIS
TOOL, THE MOST CRITICAL TOOL WE
HAVE, AS THEIR FIRST ORDER OF
BUSINESS.

Steve says THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE
TO GET INTO THIS BECAUSE WE'RE
GOING TO LOOK AT PARTY BY PARTY
BY PARTY.
THIS IS WHAT IS IN THE LIBERALS'
CLIMATE ACTION PLAN.
HERE ARE SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "The Liberals' Climate Action Plan highlights."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
THEY HAVE INTRODUCED THE CARBON
TAX AS JUST DESCRIBED.
THEY APPROVED THE TRANSMOUNTAIN
EXPANSION PROJECT AND PLAN TO
INVEST EVERY DOLLAR INTO
CANADA'S SO-CALLED CLEAN ENERGY
TRANSITION.
THEY PROMISE TO ACHIEVE NET ZERO
EMISSIONS BY THE YEAR 2050.
THEY HAVE ANNOUNCED PLANS TO
PLANT 2 BILLION TREES.
AND THEY INTEND TO BAN
SINGLE-USE PLASTICS.
ON THIS LIBERAL RECORD OF WHAT
THEY HAVE DONE AND WHAT THEY
INTEND TO DO, LET'S GET SOME FEEDBACK.
FATIMA?

The caption changes to "Fatima Syed, @fatimabsyed."

Fatima says EVERYONE I
HAVE SPOKEN TO HAVE SAID THE
LIBERALS HAVE BROUGHT A CLIMATE
PLAN TO THE TABLE WHICH HAS BEEN
CELEBRATED.
BUT THEY HAVE BOUGHT A PIPELINE.
THAT NEGATES ANY GOOD THINGS
THEY MAY HAVE DONE?

Steve says IT DOES?
NEGATES EVERY GOOD THING THEY'VE DONE?

The caption changes to "Tackling the climate crisis."

Fatima says NOT EVERY THING BUT A LOT OF
THE THINGS THEY HAVE DONE.
THE REASON I SAY THAT IS THERE
WAS A REPORT IN THE GUARDIAN
TODAY THAT SUGGESTED THAT ALMOST
40 percent OF THE CARBON EMISSIONS THAT
HAVE BEEN PRODUCED SINCE 1965
ACROSS THE WORLD ARE BECAUSE OF
20 FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES.
THE FACT WE'RE INVESTING INTO A
PIPELINE TO PERPETUATE THAT
AMOUNT, PERHAPS, ONE COULD
ARGUE, IS A PROBLEM.
I THINK CANADIANS AGREE ON ONE
THING ACROSS THE BOARD, WHICH IS
THAT WE NEED CLIMATE ACTION THAT
IS STRONG, THAT IS AMBITIOUS,
THAT ACTUALLY TACKLES THE CRISIS
IN A WAY THAT, AS TYRONE SAID,
ADDRESSES ECONOMIC REFORM ACROSS
THE BOARD, AND REALLY GETS TO
THE CHALLENGE IN... WHETHER IT
COMES TO HOUSING, WHETHER IT
COMES TO JOBS, WHETHER IT COMES
TO TRANSPORT, ACROSS THE
BOARD... WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT
FROM THE LIBERAL PLAN.

Steve says CATHERINE, DO YOU
BELIEVE THE PURCHASE OF THAT
PIPELINE NEGATES OTHER GOOD
THINGS THE LIBERAL PARTY HAS
DONE OR IS PROPOSING TO DO?

Catherine says CANADA HAS
A COGNITIVE DISSONANCE PROBLEM.
WE SEE THAT COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
ACROSS ALL OF THE PARTIES.
ALL OF THE FEDERAL PARTIES RIGHT
NOW WANT TO BUILD FOSSIL FUEL
INFRASTRUCTURE OF ONE KIND OR
ANOTHER, WHETHER LNG TERMINALS
OR REFINING.
HOW DO WE TALK ABOUT THAT IN
CANADA?
THAT'S THE MAJOR QUESTION I WANT
TO ASK.
MY CONCERNS OVER AFFORDABILITY
CAN ONLY BE ADDRESSED IF CANADA
TAKES A LOOK AT ECONOMIC
DIVERSIFICATION MOVING FORWARD.
RATHER THAN CONTINUING TO DOUBLE
DOWN ON INVESTMENTS IN FOSSIL
FUEL INFRASTRUCTURE THAT ARE NO
LONGER WORKING FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT OR THE ECONOMY.
SO I WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION
IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT THE FUTURE
PROSPERITY AND JOB CREATIONS IN
CANADA THAT WILL IMPROVE
AFFORDABILITY OVER THE LONG RUN
WHILE PROTECTING THE CLIMATE TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GOING TO
STICK AROUND IN THAT LONG RUN.

Steve says MICHAEL, YOU JUST
SAID A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU
THOUGHT THE CARBON TAX WAS A
GOOD APPROACH TO TAKE, SO LET ME
SKIP OVER YOU FOR A SECOND AND
GET ANDREW BRANDER HERE.
YOUR VIEW ON THE LIBERALS, WHAT
THEY'VE DONE AND WHAT THEY PROPOSE?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Andrew says IT'S
INTERESTING TO HEAR YOU
PRE-POSITION IT AND TALK ABOUT A
RECORD, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
THERE'S MUCH OF ONE TO STAND ON,
TO BE QUITE HONEST, AND
CANADIANS SHOULD BE RIGHTFULLY
SKEPTICAL OF THEIR PLAN RIGHT
NOW.
AFTER THE 2015 ELECTION
CAMPAIGN, THEY SIGNED ON TO THE
PARIS COMMITMENTS.
THEY HAVE FAILED TO REMAIN ON
COURSE TO MEET THOSE
COMMITMENTS, EVEN WHILE
PROVINCES LIKE ONTARIO ARE SET
TO MEET THOSE AGREEMENTS.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, AS I SAID,
I DON'T THINK THERE'S MUCH OF A
PLAN.
IT'S NOT COSTED.
THERE'S STILL FURTHER QUESTIONS
ON HOW HIGH THE CARBON TAX IS
GOING TO GO...

Steve says A LITTLE QUICK
FOLLOW-UP HERE.
HAD STEPHEN HARPER WON THAT LAST
ELECTION INSTEAD OF JUSTIN
TRUDEAU, HE SIGNED ONTO PARIS,
DO YOU THINK WE'D BE ON TRACK TO
MEET THE TARGETS?

Andrew says IT'S THE SAME TARGETS AND I
THINK HE WOULD HAVE COME OUT
WITH SOME REAL COMMITMENTS IN
ORDER TO DO SO, YES, I DO.

Steve says MICHAEL?

Michael says JUST A
COUPLE COMMENTS HERE.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT'S
IGNORING SOME OF THE FACTS,
FRANKLY.
I MEAN, THE LIBERAL PLAN... I
WOULD GIVE IT ABOUT A "B."
SURE IT NEEDS TO GO FURTHER.
BUT THE REALITY IS, WE'VE CUT
ABOUT TWO-THIRDS, WE'VE GONE
ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF THE WAY WE
NEED TO DID TO GET TO THE PARIS
AGREEMENT, AND WE NEED TO GET
FURTHER THAN THAT.
THE PARIS AGREEMENT IS NOT
ENOUGH.
WE NEED TO GET TO A PATHWAY OF
1.5 degrees CELSIUS TO AVOID THE WORST
EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
TO SAY THE LIBERALS HAVEN'T MADE
MEANINGFUL PROGRESS IGNORES A
WHOLE HOST OF PROGRAMS THAT HAVE
BEEN PUT INTO PLACE.
I WOULD MAKE ONE COMMENT ON THE
PIPELINE.
I AGREE WE NEED TO HAVE A REAL
CONVERSATION IN CANADA ABOUT HOW
WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS OUR
FOSSIL FUEL SECTOR WHILE ALSO
MAKING MEANINGFUL PROGRESS ON
CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT I DO WORRY
THAT THIS ONE PIPELINE HAS
BECOME A BIT OF A RED HERRING IN
THIS DISCUSSION.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF
EMISSIONS THAT ARE GOING TO COME
FROM THIS SPECIFIC PIPELINE,
IT'S BETWEEN 1 AND 2 percent OF
CANADIAN EMISSIONS.
SO WOULD WE HAVE A LOWER TOTAL
CARBON FOOTPRINT WITHOUT IT?
SURE, WE WOULD.

Steve says NOT MUCH.

Michael says IS THIS THE BE ALL AND END
ALL, I DON'T THINK.

Steve says TYRONE, LAST COMMENT
ON THE GRIT PLAN AND WE'LL MOVE ON.

Tyrone says I THINK THE
LIBERAL PLAN IS PARTICULARLY
PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE IT PUTS US
ON COURSE TO DOING SOMETHING
CANADA IS BEING DEFINED BY
INTERNATIONALLY, AND THAT IS
THAT IT HAS NO CREDIBILITY ON
THIS QUESTION OF HONOURING ITS
INTERNATIONAL COMMITMENTS,
PARTICULARLY ON MEETING EMISSION
TARGETS.
WE MISSED THE 1992 REAL TARGET.
WE MISSED THE 2005 KYOTO TARGET.
WE'RE ON COURSE TO MISSING THE
COPENHAGEN 2020 TARGET.
AND WE'RE ON COURSE, BASED ON
THE PROJECTIONS THAT WE HAVE
HERE, TO, AGAIN, MISS ANOTHER
MAJOR TARGET, AND SO WHEN YOU
PUT FORWARD ANOTHER PIPELINE,
PARTICULARLY CHANNELING ONE OF
THE WORST FORMS OF FOSSIL FUELS,
YOU ARE GOING TO JUST EXACERBATE
THAT CHALLENGE.
WE CANNOT AFFORD TO UNDERMINE
THE COUNTRY'S REPUTATION ANY
FURTHER.

Steve says OKAY.
MR. DIRECTOR, LET'S DO PLAN
NUMBER 2 HERE.
THIS IS THE CONSERVATIVES'
CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, AND HERE
ARE SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS, AND...

A slate appears on screen, with the title "The Conservatives' climate action plan highlights."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
YOU KNOW WHAT HIGHLIGHT NUMBER ONE IS: GET RID OF THAT CARBON TAX.
THAT'S WHAT ANDREW SCHEER HAS
BEEN TALKING ABOUT SO MANY TIMES
DURING THE COURSE OF THE
CAMPAIGN.
THEY WANT TO SET EMISSION
STANDARDS FOR MAJOR EMITTERS
THAT WILL LOWER GREENHOUSE GASES
AND DRIVE CANADIAN BUSINESSES TO
THE HIGHEST STANDARDS OF GREEN
TECHNOLOGY.
THEY WANT TO CREATE A TWO-YEAR
GREEN HOMES TAX CREDIT FOR HOME
OWNERS, AND THEY WANT TO LAUNCH
THE SO-CALLED CANADIAN CLEAN
BRAND FOR CANADIAN PRODUCTS.
CATHERINE, YOUR VIEW OF WHAT THE
CONSERVATIVES HAVE ON OFFER?

The caption changes to "A plan to protect the environment."

Catherine says SO I THINK
MAYBE THE ONE PLACE THAT ANDREW
AND I AGREE IS THAT EVERY PARTY
HAS THE POTENTIAL TO ENACT
LEADERSHIP ON CLIMATE CHANGE.
CLIMATE CHANGE IS A NON-PARTISAN
ISSUE.
IT'S A POLITICAL ISSUE, BUT IT
SHOULD NOT BE A PARTISAN ONE.
AND IN FACT WE HAVE SEEN
CONSERVATIVE PARTIES IN THE PAST
TAKE SIGNIFICANT ENVIRONMENTAL
LEADERSHIP IN CANADA.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE CURRENT
CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS COMPLETELY
MISSING IN ACTION.
THEY HAVE OFFERED A CLIMATE PLAN
THAT DOESN'T ONCE TALK ABOUT
REDUCING EMISSIONS, THE NUMBER
ONE THING YOU HAVE TO DO IN
ORDER TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE.
IT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD TALKING
ABOUT DEVELOPING GREEN
TECHNOLOGY AND CERTAINLY WE WILL
NEED INVESTMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY
MOVING FORWARD.
THE FACT IS RIGHT NOW WE HAVE
THE TECHNOLOGY.
WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.
IT'S NO MORE WAITING AROUND FOR
SOME NEW SILVER BULLET TO COME
SAVE US.
IT'S ABOUT TAKING THE ACTION WE
CAN NOW WHILE CONTINUING TO
INVEST IN IMPROVEMENTS MOVING
FORWARD.

Steve says ANDREW?

Andrew says I DISAGREE.
I THINK THAT THERE ARE PLENTY
OF... PLENTY OF PROGRESSIVE
IDEAS IN THE CONSERVATIVE
PLATFORM.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INVESTMENTS
IN GREEN TECHNOLOGIES, WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT INVESTMENTS IN PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION, AND I THINK THE
POINT THAT THE CONSERVATIVES ARE
TRYING TO MAKE IS THERE'S A
SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION CANADA
CAN MAKE, THOSE INVESTMENTS IN
GREEN TECHNOLOGY, FINDING THOSE
INNOVATING HERE AND BEING ABLE
TO EXPORT THAT TECHNOLOGY AROUND
THE WORLD, TO REDUCE EMISSIONS
WORLD WIDE.
BECAUSE THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A
GLOBAL PROBLEM.
CANADA IS ONLY 1.6 percent OF GLOBAL
EMITTERS...

Steve says WOULD YOU AGREE WE
HAVE TO SHOW LEADERSHIP?

Andrew says I AGREE.
I THINK THEY ARE SHOWING
LEADERSHIP.
I THINK THIS IS A REASONABLE
PRAGMATIC APPROACH THAT'S
BALANCED, AND I THINK THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT THE OTHER PLANS
ARE LACKING.

Steve says TYRONE, WHAT DO YOU
SEE IN THE CONSERVATIVE PLAN?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Tyrone says I SEE CONTORTED LOGIC.
WE GENERALLY SAY BUYING INTO THE
CONSERVATIVE LOGIC THAT THEY
AREN'T FOR A CARBON TAX, BUT IN
EFFECT THEY ARE PROPOSING A
CARBON TAX.
IT'S JUST UNCLEAR AT WHAT RATE
AND HOW IT WILL WORK.

Steve says OKAY.
HANG ON.
EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.
THEY'VE BEEN NOTHING BUT CLEAR
THAT THEY WANT TO GET RID OF THE
CARBON TAX.

Tyrone says BUT WHAT THEY'VE PUT FORWARD
SAY FOR HEAVY INDUSTRY, THEY
WILL ESTABLISH A CAP FOR... AT
WHICH YOU WILL BEGIN TO TAX OR
COMPEL INDUSTRY TO INVEST A
CERTAIN AMOUNT FOR BREACHING THE
INDUSTRY AVERAGE.
THAT IS, IN EFFECT, A CARBON TAX...

Steve says A PRICE ON CARBON, ISN'T IT?

Tyrone says PRECISELY.
BECAUSE THEY'VE CREATED THIS
NARRATIVE OF PROPOSING THE MOST
SIGNIFICANT ELEMENT OF WHAT WE
HAVE ON THE TABLE, THEY'RE DOING
THESE CONTORTIONS AROUND IT,
WHICH IS PROBLEMATIC...

Steve says LET ME GO TO ANDREW
ON THAT FOR A SECOND.
WE UNDERSTAND WHY CALLING IT A
CARBON TAX IS A POLITICAL
PROBLEM.
IS THAT WHY YOU GUYS ARE
ESSENTIALLY DOING THE SAME
THING, JUST NOT CALLING IT A
CARBON TAX?

Andrew says NO.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A PLAN THAT'S
DESIGNED TO ENSURE THAT BIG
POLLUTERS ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
BUT WHAT THIS ISN'T IS A TAX ON
CANADIANS, IT'S NOT A TAX AT THE
PUMPS, IT'S NOT A TAX THAT'S
GOING TO INCREASE THE PRICE OF
GROCERIES, OF CLOTHING, OF
EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO
GO AND BUY AND PURCHASE, AND WE
ARE NOT IN A POST-FOSSIL FUEL
ECONOMY WHERE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,
DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE TO WORK OR
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, DON'T HAVE TO
DO CERTAIN THINGS TO GET BY...

Steve says LET ME GET YOUR TAKE
ON THAT.
WOULD YOU AGREE THAT BY REMOVING
THE CARBON TAX FROM THE EVERYDAY
COSTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO
EXPERIENCE, AND PUTTING IT
RATHER ON THE BIGGEST EMITTERS,
THAT THIS IS A PREFERABLE WAY TO GO?

Andrew says NOT AT ALL.
WE EVALUATED THE CONSERVATIVE
PLAN, AS HAVE OTHER EXPERTS, AND
WE FOUND THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY
GOING TO RAISE EMISSIONS
RELATIVE TO THE STATUS QUO.
SO WHAT KIND OF CLIMATE PLAN
ACTUALLY RAISES EMISSIONS AND AT
THE SAME TIME IT ACTUALLY... YOU
SPOKE ABOUT COST, ANDREW.
IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO INCREASE
COSTS FOR HOUSEHOLDS BECAUSE IT
REMOVES THOSE REBATES THAT ARE
GOING BACK TO FAMILIES.
SO TO ME IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE
SAYING, THERE'S A FIRE IN YOUR
HOUSE, AND THEN SAYING, WE'RE
CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIRE, BUT
YOU CAN'T USE A FIRE
EXTINGUISHER, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED
TO CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, BUT
MAYBE WE MIGHT HAVE TECHNOLOGY
IN THE FUTURE THAT MIGHT SOLVE
THIS PROBLEM.
IT'S HARD TO TAKE SERIOUSLY.

Catherine says AND SAYING
IT'S SOMEHOW HAVING THE FIRE
LESS ON THE BLOCK.
SAYING WE'RE GOING TO REDUCE
GLOBAL EMISSIONS BY INCREASING
OUR OWN IS JUST A BIZARRE TWIST
OF LOGIC.

Steve says FATIMA, YOUR VIEW ON
THE CONSERVATIVE PLAN?

Fatima says I THINK THE
TIMES RIGHT NOW DEMAND A SWISS
ARMY KNIFE OF OPTIONS THAT WE'RE
NOT SEEING IN THE CONSERVATIVE
PLAN.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE
BANKING THEIR HOPES ON THE FACT
THAT TECHNOLOGY WILL CLEAN UP
ALL THE CARBON FROM OUR
ATMOSPHERE, AND THAT'S NOT GOING
TO WORK.
AND EVEN IF IT DOES...

Steve says DO WE ACTUALLY KNOW THAT?

Fatima says IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK IN THE
SHORT TERM, IS WHAT I WAS GOING
TO SAY.
IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF
TIME.
BUT WE NEED ACTION RIGHT NOW.
WE NEED SOMETHING THAT WILL MEET
THE TARGETS THAT WE'RE ALREADY
WAY BEHIND ON, AND THE
CONSERVATIVE PLAN IS NOT MEETING
THAT.
ON TOP OF THAT, MY PERSONAL
CONCERN WITH THE CONSERVATIVE
PLAN IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE
CLARITY ON WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
IF I COMPARE IT TO THE DOUG FORD
GOVERNMENT'S PLAN, WHICH I'M
FAMILIAR WITH, AND HAS SIMILAR
PROPOSALS, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF
PUTTING A CAP ON INDUSTRIAL...
INDUSTRY AS OPPOSED TO A CARBON
TAX, WE DON'T YET KNOW WHAT THAT
LOOKS LIKE.
WE DON'T HAVE DETAILS ABOUT
THAT.
AND I WORRY THAT IF THIS EXISTS
ON A FEDERAL LEVEL, WE'RE STILL
GOING TO SEE A LACK OF CLARITY,
WHICH WILL TRANSLATE INTO A LACK
OF ACTION.

Steve says TYRONE, LAST WORD ON
THE CONSERVATIVE PLAN?

Tyrone says THE MOST
PROBLEMATIC ELEMENT IS THAT
THEY'RE BANKING ON CLEAN TECH,
PARTICULARLY THE HOPE, THE WISH
THAT YOU COULD ENFORCE ARTICLE 6
OF THE PARIS AGREEMENT TO SORT
OF GET CREDIT FOR EXPLOITING
GREEN TECH THAT WILL BE
DEVELOPED.
THAT IS UNLIKELY TO BE ENFORCED,
TO BE APPROVED, BECAUSE IF YOU
DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO ALSO ADMIT
THAT WHEN YOU IMPORT FROM HIGH
EMISSION PARTS OF THE WORLD,
THAT YOU ARE IMPORTING AND
CONTRIBUTING TO CARBON
EMISSIONS.
SO THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF
CONTORTIONS.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE
PICTURE AND PLAN, AS FATIMA WAS
POINTING OUT, LACKED DETAILS AND
DOES NOT HONESTLY ENGAGE WITH
THE TOTALITY OF THE PICTURE.

Steve says MOVING ON.
HERE IS PLAN NUMBER 3.
THIS IS THE NDP'S CLIMATE ACTION
PLAN AND HERE ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS...

A slate appears on screen, with the title "The NDP's Climate Action Plan."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
JAGMEET SINGH WOULD
LIKE TO ESTABLISH A NEW CANADIAN
CLIMATE BANK TO BOOST INVESTMENT
IN RENEWABLE ENERGY, ENERGY
EFFICIENCY, AND LOW CARBON
TECHNOLOGY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
HE WOULD DECLARE A CLIMATE
EMERGENCY AND PUT IN PLACE
TARGETS THAT WILL HELP STABILIZE
THE GLOBAL TEMPERATURE RISE TO
1.5 degrees CELSIUS.
HE WOULD ELIMINATE FOSSIL FUEL
SUBSIDIES AND REDIRECT THOSE
FUNDS TO LOW CARBON INITIATIVES,
AND HE WOULD ALSO PUT FORWARD A
PROGRAM THAT WOULD RETROFIT ALL
HOUSING STOCK IN CANADA BY THE
YEAR 2050.
OKAY.
LET'S GO TO ANDREW, WHY DON'T WE
GIVE YOU THE FIRST WORD ON THIS
ONE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Andrew says IT SOUNDS
LIKE A LOT OF PIECES THAT ARE IN
THE CONSERVATIVE PLAN AS WELL,
TO BE QUITE HONEST.
SO I DO LIKE JAGMEET SINGH'S
PLAN.
I THINK IT'S THOUGHTFUL AND
GETS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF
CONVERSATION AROUND THE SAME
TYPES OF PIECES THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT, REAL ACTIONS THAT
DO REDUCE EMISSIONS...

Steve says CAN I BE MISCHIEVOUS
HERE FOR A SECOND?
ARE YOU COMPLIMENTING HIS PLAN
IN HOPES OF TAKING LIBERAL
LEANING SUPPORTERS AWAY FROM THE
NEW DEMOCRATS?...
I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS
YES.
BUT KEEP GOING.

Andrew says BUT I WILL
SAY IT'S UNATTAINABLE AND IT'S
UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT THESE
DON'T COME WITH HUGE PRICE TAGS
ATTACHED TO IT AT THE SCALE THAT
HE'S TALKING ABOUT.

Steve says FATIMA, HOW
AMBITIOUS IS THIS PLAN, IN YOUR VIEW?

Fatima says IT'S VERY AMBITIOUS.
HE'S IMAGINING A CANADA WITHOUT
FOSSIL FUELS ALREADY AT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL AND HE'S ALSO
ENVISIONING INTERESTING THINGS
LIKE A CANADIAN CLIMATE BANK.
I DO AGREE WITH ANDREW.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE
ON A COST LEVEL, AND
UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE STILL AT A
TIME WHERE WE HAVE TO PUT COST
AND CLIMATE CHANGE TOGETHER IN
THE SAME SENTENCE, AND I THINK
THAT'S A CONCERN PEOPLE HAVE
WITH THE NDP PLAN.
WE LOVE THE AMBITION, ALL THE
ANALYSTS LOVE THE AMBITION.
I THINK PEOPLE WILL RESPECT THE
AMBITION.
WE JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT'S
GOING TO COST US.

Steve says HOW ACHIEVABLE,
CATHERINE, IS THE NDP PLAN?

Catherine says LET ME
TACKLE THIS MYTH THAT CANADA IS
ONLY 1.6 percent OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS.
WE DON'T HEAR THAT 1.6 percent CANADA
IS IN THE TOP 10 OF NET EMITTERS
GLOBALLY.
WE'VE BEEN IN THE TOP 10 FOR THE
LAST CENTURY.
WE'VE NEVER LEFT IT.
SO THAT MEANS THAT THERE ARE AT
LEAST 180 OTHER COUNTRIES THAT
EMIT MORE THAN CANADA... OR THAT
EMIT LESS THAN CANADA.
SO WE'RE A SIGNIFICANT
CONTRIBUTOR TO THE PROBLEM.
WHEN IT COMES TO PER CAPITA,
CANADIANS EMIT MORE THAN PRETTY
MUCH ANYONE EVERYWHERE ELSE ON
THE PLANET.
THE NDP RECOGNIZES THE SCALE OF
THE CHALLENGE.
RECOGNIZES THE CONTRIBUTION THAT
CANADA IS MAKING TO THE GLOBAL
CLIMATE CRISIS, AND IS TALKING
ABOUT SOME SIGNIFICANT STEPS TO
MOVE US IN A DIRECTION OF
LEADERSHIP AWAY FROM BEING THAT
SIGNIFICANT GLOBAL CONTRIBUTOR.
IT ALSO ACKNOWLEDGES THAT WHILE
WE, OF COURSE, WILL BE USING
FOSSIL FUELS FOR A FEW MORE
YEARS, WE HAVE TO THINK AHEAD
AND PREPARE FOR A FUTURE WHERE
WE ARE SUCCESSFUL IN TAKING
ACTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND WE
ARE PROTECTING WORKERS AND
COMMUNITIES AS WE MOVE AWAY FROM
AN ECONOMY THAT IS DEPENDENT ON
GREENHOUSE GAS-INTENSIVE
INDUSTRIES.
IT'S NOT ABOUT DOING IT TODAY.
IT'S NOT ABOUT BLOWING
EVERYTHING UP RIGHT AWAY.
IT'S ABOUT MAKING A PLAN AND
ENSURING THAT THERE'S A JUST
TRANSITION INTO THAT FUTURE.

Steve says HOW ACHIEVABLE IS
THIS PLAN, IN YOUR VIEW, TYRONE?

Tyrone says I THINK IT'S VERY PRACTICAL.
IT'S QUITE ACHIEVABLE.
AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS
THAT THEY'RE TACKLING
TRANSPORTATION, THE ELECTRICITY
SECTOR AND HOUSING.
CANADA ALREADY GETS ABOUT
TWO-THIRDS OF ITS ELECTRICITY
FROM RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES.
SCALING THAT UP IS VERY MUCH
WITHIN REACH.
IT'S AMBITIOUS BECAUSE IT'S
TACKLING TRANSPORTATION.
IT'S NUMBER TWO IN TERMS OF
SECTORS THAT ARE THE SECOND
HIGHEST... SECOND HIGHLY RANKED
SOURCE OF EMISSIONS IN CANADA.
SO IT'S AMBITIOUS AND IT'S
TACKLING KEY SOURCES OF THE
PROBLEM, AND IT'S DELIVERING
JOBS.
THERE'S A KEY FOCUS ON TRAINING
YOUNG PEOPLE AND THE WHOLE
POPULATION FOR CLEAN ENERGY
JOBS.
IT'S TARGETED AT THE RIGHT
POINTS.
I THINK IT'S VERY AMBITIOUS.

Steve says MICHAEL?

Michael says I AGREE IT'S AMBITIOUS.
OVERALL I WOULD GIVE IT A "B."
I GIVE IT AN "A" FOR AMBITION.
THEY HAVE HIGH PRICE TAGS THAT
HAVEN'T BEEN THOUGHT OUT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM
LEVERAGE THE CORE TOOL.
IF THEY PROPOSE RAISING THE
CARBON TAX, THEY WOULD BE ABLE
TO ACHIEVE SOME OF THE EMISSIONS
REDUCTIONS AT A LOWER COST.

Steve says ANDREW, DID YOU WANT
ANOTHER WORD ON THE NDP PLAN?

Andrew says I WOULD
JUST SAY IN REFERENCE TO WHAT
WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER ABOUT
CANADA BEING IN THE TOP 10 IN
TERMS OF GLOBAL EMITTERS, IT'S
OBVIOUSLY A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS A
GLOBAL SOLUTION.
CANADA IS NUMBER 10.
AND THE ONLY OTHER COUNTRY IN
THAT TOP 10 THAT HAS MADE A
COMMITMENT TO REDUCE EMISSIONS
TO NET ZERO BY 2050 IS GERMANY.
SO I THINK OTHER PARTNERS NEED
TO BE AT THE TABLE OR ALL OF
THIS IS FOR NAUGHT.

Steve says CATHERINE, CAN I DO
A FACT-CHECK WITH YOU HERE.
THERE WAS A MOMENT IN THE
LEADERS DEBATE THE OTHER NIGHT
WHERE THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION
ABOUT WHETHER BUILDING A
REFINERY IN ALBERTA IS OR IS NOT
IN THE NDP PLATFORM.
JAGMEET SINGH INSISTED IT
WASN'T.
ANDREW SCHEER SAID I'VE READ IT.
IT'S IN THERE.
CAN YOU HELP US ON THIS?

Catherine says YEAH.
SO BOTH THE GREENS AND THE NDP
HAVE SAID THAT WE NEED TO
IMPROVE REFINING CAPACITY IN
CANADA.
THE GREENS HAVE BEEN MORE
SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS,
I.E., WHERE WILL WE BUILD THE
REFINERIES IN ALBERTA?
THE NDP HAS SAID, WE NEED TO
GROW OUR REFINING CAPACITY, SO
THEY DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY
PINPOINT ONE REFINERY IN
ALBERTA.
BUT THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.

Steve says IT DOES MEAN THAT?
IT DOESN'T MEAN SHIPPING IT
SOMEWHERE ELSE... OR HAVING
GREATER ACCESS TO OTHER
REFINERIES ELSEWHERE IN NORTH AMERICA?

Catherine says YEAH.
SO THEY'RE WANTING TO DO THIS TO
KEEP JOBS IN CANADA WHICH MEANS
BUILDING THAT REFINERY CAPACITY
IN CANADA.

Steve says GOTCHA.
LET'S DO PLAN NUMBER 4.
HERE COME THE GREENS.
HERE ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS...

A slate appears on screen, with the title "The Green Party's Climate Action Plan highlights."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
CANCEL
THE TRANSMOUNTAIN PIPELINE AS
WELL AS OTHER SUBSIDIES TO
FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRIES.
INTRODUCE A CLIMATE CHANGE ACT
REQUIRING A 60 percent CUT IN CLIMATE
CHANGE EMISSIONS BY THE YEAR
2030 AND REACHING NET ZERO IN
2050.
MAINTAIN A BROAD-BASED
REVENUE-NEUTRAL CARBON FEE ON
ALL SOURCES OF CARBON DIOXIDE
POLLUTION.
AND BAN THE SALE OF INTERNAL
COMBUSTION ENGINE PASSENGER
VEHICLES BY 2030.
LET ME REPEAT THAT LAST ONE: NO
MORE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE
VEHICLES ON THE ROADS IN TEN
YEARS.
I HAVE A FEELING AS WE GO AROUND
THE TABLE, EVERYONE IS GOING TO
GIVE THIS AN "E" FOR EXCELLENT
ON AMBITION, BUT CAN WE DO THIS,
MICHAEL?

The caption changes to "Transitioning to a Green Economy."

Michael says I THINK
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT.
I WOULD GIVE THIS PLAN OVERALL A
B MINUS.
WHAT YOU READ ABOUT THE CARBON
FEE, THE GREENS ARE THE ONLY
ONES SAYING TO CANADIANS, LOOK,
WE CAN USE THAT TOOL OF A CARBON
TAX AND REBATE TO GET ALONG A
SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE
EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS WE NEED.
THEY'RE GOING TO GROW THAT ALL
THE WAY TO 130 dollars BY 2030.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE ARE
A NUMBER OF PRETTY HEAVY
GOVERNMENT INTERVENTIONIST
POLICIES, INCLUDING THE ONE YOU
JUST READ ABOUT THE INTERNAL
COMBUSTION ENGINES.
IN ADDITION TO THAT THEY'RE
SAYING NO MORE OIL DEVELOPMENT,
NO MORE EXPORTS OF COAL.
ALL THESE THINGS HAVE THE RIGHT
INTENTION.
I THINK THEY HAVE NOBLE
AMBITIONS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM DO IT
IN A MORE COST EFFECTIVE WAY.

Steve says CATHERINE, EVEN IF
WE WANTED TO GET EVERY
GAS-BURNING CAR OFF THE ROADS IN
10 YEARS' TIME, IS THERE ENOUGH
CAPACITY IN THE SYSTEM TO BUILD
BATTERY POWERED CARS TO TAKE ALL
THEIR PLACES?

Catherine says SO I THINK
THE GREEN PARTY IS ACTUALLY
SAYING THAT WE'RE GOING TO NO
LONGER SEE THE SALE OF INTERNAL
COMBUSTION ENGINES BY 2030.
NOT THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE
EVERY SINGLE INTERNAL COMBUSTION
ENGINE ON THE ROAD AND RIP IT
AWAY.
WE KNOW ONE OF THE GREATEST
BARRIERS TO THE PENETRATION OF
ELECTRIC VEHICLES IN CANADA IS
ACTUALLY THE SUPPLY OF ELECTRIC
VEHICLES.
WE DO HAVE TO BUILD OUT THAT
CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT
THE CARS ARE THERE FOR THE
PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BUY THEM.
WHEN IT COMES TO THE GREEN PARTY
PLAN, TALK ABOUT RECOGNIZING THE
SCALE OF THE CHALLENGE.
NOT ONLY ARE THEY RECOGNIZING
THE SCALE OF THE CHALLENGE, BUT
THEY'RE THE MOST REAL ABOUT THE
SCALE OF THE RESPONSE THAT'S
REQUIRED.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE CHEAP.
AND THEY'RE COMFORTABLE IN
SAYING THAT.
THEY'RE ALSO THE ONES THAT ARE
BEING THE MOST HONEST ABOUT THE
COSTS OF INACTION.
AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT THE REST OF THE PARTIES ARE
NOT AS COMFORTABLE TALKING
ABOUT.
IF WE DON'T DO THESE THINGS,
WE'RE GOING TO BE A WHOLE LOT
WORSE OFF.
OF COURSE, WHAT THE SCALE OF THE
RESPONSE REQUIRES IS NOT
BUSINESS AS USUAL.
THE GREENS ARE SAYING WE NEED TO
BE MOVING AWAY FROM BUSINESS AS
USUAL.
THIS IS A WAR-LEVEL EFFORT THAT
IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED FROM
CANADIAN SOCIETY, AND THEY'RE
ALSO TALKING ABOUT WORKING
TOGETHER WITH OTHER PARTIES, AND
THAT IS I THINK A REALLY
IMPORTANT PART OF THEIR PLAN
BECAUSE ULTIMATELY NONE OF THE
PARTIES ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
DO THIS JOB ALONE.
SO FAR WE'VE SEEN THE POLITICS
OF CLIMATE CHANGE IN THIS
ELECTION BE CHARACTERIZED BY
POLITICS OF POLARIZATION.
THE GREENS ARE TRYING TO SWITCH
OVER TO POLITICS OF
COLLABORATION, AND THAT'S WHERE
WE NEED TO BE GOING.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says FATIMA, COMPARE AND
CONTRAST, THE GREENS VERSUS
EVERYBODY ELSE?

Fatima says THE THING THAT
I THINK ABOUT WHEN I'M COMPARING
THESE PLANS, COME OCTOBER 21ST,
IF THEY WENT TO PARLIAMENT HILL
AND PUT EVERYTHING INTO ACTION,
FIRST OF ALL, AND SECONDLY, HOW
AMAZING WOULD THAT BE.
THE GREEN PLAN, AMAZING.
THE WORLD WOULD DEFINITELY BE A
CLIMATE CRISIS-LESS WORLD, IN
CANADA AT LEAST.
BUT IN TERMS OF POSSIBLE, IT
WILL BE HARD.
BUT LIKE CAT SAID, I THINK THE
GREEN PARTY IS A REALITY CHECK
COMPARED TO ALL THE OTHER PLANS.
THEY'RE NOT SHYING AWAY FROM THE
FACT THAT WE HAVE TO DO
EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN TO
ADDRESS THE BIGGEST CRISIS OF
OUR TIMES, AND THIS IS WHAT WE
NEED TO ENVISION MOVING FORWARD.
WE NEED TO ENVISION A FOSSIL
FUEL-LESS INDUSTRY.
WE NEED TO ENVISION A WORLD
WITHOUT CARBON POLLUTION AND
WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
AND I THINK THAT IS AMAZING.

Steve says TYRONE, YOUR VIEW OF
THE GREEN PLAN?

Tyrone says IT IS VERY AMBITIOUS.
IT'S THE MOST AMBITIOUS.
IT'S ONE OF ONLY THE TWO PLANS
BEFORE US THAT IS CONSISTENT
WITH THE BEST AVAILABLE SCIENCE.
IT'S ONE OF ONLY TWO PLANS THAT
ACKNOWLEDGES A 1.5 degrees MORE
AMBITIOUS GOAL THAN THE PARIS
AGREEMENT.
AND FOR ALL THE TALK OF IT
LACKING REALISM, IT STILL
DOESN'T EVEN GO FAR ENOUGH
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T... IT DOES
NOT SEAR ITSELF TO THE HEART OF
THE POLICY MAKING PROCESS BY
TACKLING ISSUES LIKE
SOCIOECONOMIC DIFFERENTIATIONS.

Steve says SORRY.
HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS.

Tyrone says HOW DOES IT HELP US TO TACKLE
ISSUES SUCH AS POVERTY AND THE
DIFFERENTIATED RISK THAT CLIMATE
CHANGE POSES TO DIFFERENT
SEGMENTS OF THE CANADIAN
POPULATION?
WHERE IS THE POVERTY REDUCTION
ELEMENT IN THIS AMBITIOUS PLAN?
I THINK IF YOU INFUSE IT HAD
WITH THAT, I WOULD BE VERY HAPPY.

Steve says GOTCHA. ANDREW,
YOUR VIEW OF THE GREEN PLAN?

Andrew says IT'S
COSTED, AT LEAST THAT MUCH,
UNLIKE THE LIBERAL PLAN.
I'LL GIVE THEM THAT MUCH.
BUT IT'S ALSO VERY COSTLY, AS WE
HAVE AGREEMENT ON THAT ON THE
PANEL AS WELL.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE POINTS
THAT WAS COMING UP ON THE SCREEN
I CAN JUST HEAR, KA-CHING,
KA-CHING, KA-CHING.
AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE
DAY IT'S ALSO THE GREEN PARTY
NAMING THEIR PRICE.
WE'LL SEE WHERE THEY END UP ON
ELECTION NIGHT.
BUT I DO THINK ANY OF THOSE
PROMISES COULD CERTAINLY BE A
GOOD BARGAINING CHIP IN A
MINORITY SITUATION.

Steve says I'D LIKE TO GO
AROUND THE TABLE, NOW THAT WE'VE
COMPARED AND CONTRASTED ALL THE
PLANS, AND I WANT A ONE-WORD
ANSWER FROM EACH OF YOU: WHICH
PARTY HAS ON OFFER THE BEST PLAN?
TYRONE?

Tyrone says THE GREENS.

Steve says THE GREENS.

Fatima says YOU CAN'T ASK ME THOSE QUESTIONS.

Steve says YOU'RE A STRAIGHT-UP
REPORTER.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO OPINE.
BUT HAVING DONE AN ANALYSIS, DO
YOU HAVE A VIEW?

Fatima says THE GREENS.

Steve says CATHERINE?

Catherine says WE NEED
ELEMENTS FROM THE LIBERAL,
GREEN, AND NDP PLATFORMS TO MAKE
THIS WORK.

Steve says MICHAEL?

Michael says THREE OF
THE PARTIES HAVE REALLY STRONG
PLANS AND I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT
THE CONSERVATIVES NOT HAVING A
STRONG ENOUGH PLAN.

Steve says ANDREW?

Andrew says I DISAGREE.
THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE THE ONLY
REALISTIC PLAN THAT SPEAKS TO
THE AVERAGE CANADIAN.

Steve says THAT'S NOT
NECESSARILY SAYING IT'S THE BEST PLAN.
IT'S THE MOST REALISTIC PLAN.
THOSE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS,
YOU'D ACKNOWLEDGE.

Andrew says I'D ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, SURE.

Steve says ARE WE... FATIMA, TO
YOU FIRST ON THIS... ARE WE AT A
TURNING POINT?
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NECKS
HOUSE IS GOING TO LOOK... NEXT
HOUSE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE?
YOU NEVER KNOW, BUT MAYBE, IT'S
GOING TO BE A HUNG PARLIAMENT.
SO IT IS GOING TO REQUIRE SOME
GETTING TOGETHER FROM MORE THAN
ONE PARTY FOR WHATEVER IS GOING
TO TRANSPIRE AFTER THE 21ST OF
OCTOBER.
DO YOU THINK THE NEXT PARLIAMENT
HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE A
TURNING POINT FOR CLIMATE ACTION
RATHER THAN CLIMATE TALK?

The caption changes to "A crossroads for climate action?"

Fatima says IT HAS TO.

Steve says I KNOW IT HAS TO,
BUT DO YOU THINK IT WILL?

Fatima says YES.
AND THE REASON I SAY THIS IS
BECAUSE CANADIANS ARE DEMANDING IT.
IF WE LEARNED ANYTHING FROM TWO
WEEKS AGO FROM THE CLIMATE
CRISIS... THE CLIMATE PROTEST
THAT TOOK PLACE NOT JUST ACROSS
THE WORLD BUT IN CANADA WHERE A
MILLION CANADIANS TOOK TO THE
STREETS, FROM RURAL COMMUNITIES
IN THE NORTH TO BIG CITIES LIKE
TORONTO, PEOPLE ARE DEMANDING
THIS.
SO WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT,
CLIMATE ACTION IS WHAT WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHEN
THE GOVERNMENT RECONVENES AFTER
THE ELECTION.

Steve says POLITICS IS THE ART
OF THE POSSIBLE, MICHAEL.
SO I WANT TO KNOW IF IT'S A
LIBERAL MINORITY GOVERNMENT, DO
YOU SEE THE POSSIBILITY OF
MULTIPLE PARTIES WORKING
TOGETHER TO DO SOMETHING BETTER
ON THE ENVIRONMENT?

Michael says I THINK
THERE'S A VERY STRONG
POSSIBILITY OF THAT.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A
MUCH... I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO
SEE THE NDPs AND THE GREENS
LIKELY INCREASE THE AMBITION OF
THE LIBERAL PLAN EVEN FURTHER.
I THINK THE ONLY RISK OF THAT
MINORITY PARLIAMENT IS WHAT
WE'LL SEE, IT MAY NOT BE A
STRONG ENOUGH SIGNAL TO THE
CONSERVATIVES TO REVERSE COURSE
ON THEIR POLICIES.
THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE
TRADITIONALLY BEEN STRONG ON THE
ENVIRONMENT.
IT JUST SO HAPPENS THIS
PARTICULAR ITERATION OF A PLAN
IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH.
SO MY HOPE IS THAT THEY GET A
STRONG SIGNAL FROM THIS ELECTION
TO SAY, WE NEED A MORE SERIOUS PLAN.

Steve says ANDREW, IF IT'S A
CONSERVATIVE MINORITY
GOVERNMENT, CAN IT SURVIVE LONG
ENOUGH WITHOUT THE ASSISTANCE OF
THE OTHER PARTIES GIVEN THAT THE
OTHER PARTIES CERTAINLY DON'T
AGREE WITH THE CONSERVATIVES'
APPROACH ON THE ENVIRONMENT?

Andrew says I THINK ANY
OF THE LEADERS ARE GOING TO BE
HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR THE PROMISES
THAT THEY MAKE DURING THE COURSE
OF THIS CAMPAIGN, AND THAT'S WHY
I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT
LEADERS ARE MAKING REALISTIC
PROMISES, THAT CANADIANS CAN
HOLD AND THE PARLIAMENT CAN HOLD
THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR.

Steve says WE'VE GOT A MINUTE LEFT.
I'M GOING TO GIVE 30 SECONDS TO
TYRONE, 30 SECONDS TO CATHERINE.
YOUR VIEW ON HOW THE NEXT
PARLIAMENT, HOWEVER IT COMES
BACK, WHAT THAT AGGLOMERATION
CAN DO TO HANDLE THIS ISSUE?

Tyrone says I THINK NO
MATTER WHAT THE CONGLOMERATION
TURNS OUT TO BE, WE WILL GET
SOME TRACTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE,
EVEN IF THERE IS A LIBERAL
MINORITY-LED GOVERNMENT, I
AGREE, THEY'LL BE COMPELLED TO
SCALE UP THE AMBITION OF THEIR
PLANS.
BUT I STILL, NO MATTER THE
CONFIGURATION, I WORRY ABOUT THE
JURISDICTIONAL ISSUES THAT WILL
STYMIE SOME OF THE MORE
AMBITIOUS INTENTIONS, ESPECIALLY
AROUND GETTING RID OF SUBSIDIES
ON FOSSIL FUEL.

Steve says CATHERINE, YOU GET
THE LAST WORD.

Catherine says SOME OF
THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENTS WE'VE
HAD IN CANADA HAVE BEEN
ACCOMPLISHED UNDER MINORITY
GOVERNMENTS.
HEALTH CARE IS A GREAT EXAMPLE
OF THAT, WHICH ALSO HAD TO DEAL
WITH A NUMBER OF JURISDICTIONAL
ISSUES.

Steve says CLIMATE, PENSION PLAN, YEAH.

Catherine says WE EARLIER ON THIS SESSION
WERE TALKING ABOUT CANADIANS
SAYING THAT THEY WERE UNWILLING
TO FORK OVER A FEW DOLLARS FOR
CLIMATE ACTION.
THE PROBLEM WITH THAT
FORMULATION IS THAT IT PUTS THE
RESPONSIBILITY ON INDIVIDUALS.
WHAT CANADIANS ARE DOING IN THIS
ELECTION IS SAYING, IT'S NOT
ABOUT ME AS AN INDIVIDUAL.
IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY
I'M WILLING TO PUT ON MY CREDIT
CARD.
IT'S ABOUT A COLLECTIVE SOCIETAL
INVESTMENT IN TAKING ACTION ON A
COLLECTIVE PROBLEM AND A
COLLECTIVE CRISIS.
AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT THEY ARE
GOING TO BE GIVING WHOEVER LANDS
IN GOVERNMENT A STRONG MANDATE
TO DEAL WITH THAT COLLECTIVELY.

The caption changes to "Producer: Colin Ellis, @ColinEllis81."
Then, it changes again to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says THREE WORDS,
CATHERINE: WE SHALL SEE.
I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR
COMING IN TO TVO TONIGHT HELPING
US OUT COMPARING AND CONTRASTING
THE PARTY PLATFORMS ON THE
ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE.
THANKS SO MUCH, EVERYBODY.

Watch: Where the Parties Stand on Climate Change