Transcript: Shared Housing: Affordable Living for Seniors | Sep 12, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Shared housing: Affordable living for seniors. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says THEY'VE GOT WISDOM,
EXPERIENCE, AND LOTS OF LIVING
YET TO DO.
BUT MANY SENIORS FIND THAT THEIR
HOUSING SITUATION IS JUST FAR
FROM IDEAL.
TOO MUCH HOUSE, TOO LITTLE, OR
MAYBE JUST TOO EXPENSIVE, AS
COUPLES BECOME SINGLES.
EARLIER THIS YEAR, PAT DUNN
STARTED A FACEBOOK GROUP IN
SEARCH OF SOLUTIONS.
IT'S CALLED SENIOR LADIES LIVING
TOGETHER.
AND IT'S HIT A NERVE.

Pat is in her seventies, with shoulder-length curly white hair. She's wearing a purple sweater, pink vest and blue scarf.

Steve continues AND LOUISE BARDSWICH IS HERE.
SHE'S ONE OF THE SO-CALLED
GOLDEN GIRLS OF PORT PERRY, ONTARIO.

Louise is in her sixties, with short gray hair. She's wearing a gray sweater and a blue scarf.

Steve continues WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.
I KNOW YOU HATE THAT, DON'T YOU?
YOU HATE THAT GOLDEN GIRLS
THING.

Louise says WE'RE RECONCILED TO IT.
IT'S A VERY NICE SHORT FORM FOR
PEOPLE, BUT YEAH, INITIALLY WE
HAD A LITTLE DIFFICULTY WITH IT.

Steve says THERE'S A LAW OR A BILL ON
THE WAY TO BECOMING THE LAW
CALLED THE GOLDEN GIRLS ACT, SO
YOU CAN'T REALLY RUN AWAY FROM
IT NOW.

Louise says NO, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T.

Steve says OKAY, LET'S FIGURE
THIS OUT.
YOU'RE A FORMER DEAN AT HUMBER
COLLEGE.

Louise says YES.

Steve says AND SUDDENLY YOU HAVE
SORT OF STRUCK ON AN IDEA THAT
SEEMS TO BE A REAL SOLUTION FOR
A LOT OF PEOPLE.
EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

The caption changes to "Louise Bardswich. Retiree."
Then, it changes again to "Ontario's 'Golden girls.'"

A picture shows a yellow two-story detached house.

Louise says WELL, FOUR OF US IN PORT
PERRY, ALL OLDER WOMEN, SOLD OUR
OWN HOMES AND BOUGHT A HOUSE
TOGETHER, AND REALLY OUR PLAN IN
DOING THAT WAS TO TRY TO TAKE
CONTROL OF OUR AGING.
SO WE INTEND TO AGE IN PLACE.
WHAT WE REALLY MEAN IS WE INTEND
TO DIE IN PLACE.
THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO
SPEND THE REST OF OUR LIVES, WE
HOPE.

Steve says SHELDON, DO YOU WANT
TO PUT THE PICTURE UP?
YOU'VE KINDLY ALLOWED US TO SHOW
A PICTURE HERE.
THAT'S YOUR PLACE?

Louise says THAT'S OUR PLACE.

Steve says THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.

The picture of the house appears again.

Louise says YEAH, IT'S PRETTY COOL.
AS I WAS SAYING, IT'S NICER THAN
WHAT ANY ONE OF US COULD HAVE
AFFORDED BY OURSELVES, AND IT'S
RIGHT DOWNTOWN, WHICH I THINK
FOR SENIORS IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT POINT.

Steve says BECAUSE YOU'RE ENGAGED...

Louise says WE'RE ENGAGED.
WE CAN WALK TO THINGS.
ONCE WE LOSE OUR LICENCES, WE'RE
STILL GOING TO BE OKAY.

A says THAT'S GOING TO BE A LONG
TIME AWAY FROM YOU, YOU KNOW THAT.

Louise says I SINCERELY HOPE SO.

Steve says AS LONG AS I'M BEING A
SMART ALEC HERE, ARE YOU BETTY
WHITE OR ARE YOU BEA ARTHUR?

Louise says I THINK I'M A COMBINATION OF
BOTH.
A LITTLE BIT BOSSY, BUT NOT TOO
BRIGHT.

Steve says GOTCHA.
SHELDON, BRING THE NEXT ONE UP
HERE.
THAT'S THE GANG.

In a picture four older women with short white hair pose smiling as they hold wine glasses on the porch.

Louise says THAT'S THE GANG.

Steve says HOW DID YOU ALL AGREE
THAT YOU COULD LIVE TOGETHER AMICABLY?

Louise says WE DIDN'T... WE PROBABLY
DIDN'T HANDLE IT AS WELL AS WE
WOULD RECOMMEND OTHER PEOPLE
DID, ALTHOUGH WE WERE VERY LUCKY
IN HOW IT TURNED OUT.
WITH IT BEING A RELATIVELY NEW
CONCEPT, IT'S SURPRISINGLY HARD
TO GET PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY PUT
MONEY DOWN ON THE TABLE AND SAY,
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO GO
INTO IT.
SO VERY EARLY ON MARTHA AND I
HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT, KNEW
IT WAS THE BEST APPROACH, YOU
KNOW, FINANCIALLY FOR OUR...
EACH OF US.
AND THEN WE... WHEN THE BUILDER
APPROACHED US AND WE FOUND A
PROPERTY THAT WAS GOING TO NEED
FOUR PEOPLE, WE JUST WENT
THROUGH A PROCESS OF TRYING TO
FIND THE OTHERS.
BEV CAME IN EARLY, AND THEN AT
THE VERY END WE MANAGED TO FIND
SANDY.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says AND YOU'VE BEEN
TOGETHER THREE YEARS NOW?

Louise says IT WILL BE THREE YEARS IN NOVEMBER.

Steve says THREE YEARS IN NOVEMBER.
HOW'S IT WORKING OUT?

Louise says IT'S WORKING OUT REMARKABLY
WELL.
MUCH BETTER THAN I HAD EVER
THOUGHT IT WOULD.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU WORRY ABOUT?

Louise says I LIVED ALONE FOR 13 YEARS,
AND I REALLY, REALLY WORRIED
ABOUT LIVING WITH OTHER PEOPLE
AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD
GET ON EACH OTHER'S NERVES, OR
WHATEVER.
AS IT TURNS OUT, THOUGH, WE HAVE
LOTS OF PRIVACY.
SO WHEN I'M GETTING THAT KIND OF
FEELING I NEED TO BE ALONE, I
CAN DO THAT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S
LOVELY TO WAKE UP IN THE MORNING
AND YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALKING
DOWNSTAIRS AND GO DOWNSTAIRS AND
SHARE A CUP OF COFFEE AND LOOK
AT THE NEWS AND TALK ABOUT ALL
THE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT ARE
GOING ON AND THE GOOD THINGS.
IT'S GREAT.
IT'S REALLY NICE.

Steve says IT WAS A BIT
CONTROVERSIAL FOR A LITTLE WHILE, RIGHT?
LIKE, THE HUMAN RIGHTS
COMMISSION HAD TO GET INVOLVED?

Louise says YES, IT WAS CONTROVERSIAL IN
OUR LITTLE TOWN, AND THAT'S
PARTLY WHERE THE GOLDEN GIRLS
ACT CAME IN, THE MOTIVATION FOR IT.
IT WAS ACTUALLY NOT OUR PROPERTY.
IT WAS A PREVIOUS PROPERTY THAT
THE SAME BUILDER WAS DOING, BUT
A COUPLE OF US WERE INVOLVED IN
HELPING HIM PROMOTE IT BECAUSE
WE HAD SORT OF BROUGHT THE IDEA
TO TOWN, OF SHARED LIVING.
AND SO WE GOT VERY INVOLVED IN
THAT, BUT HE WAS TURNED DOWN ON
A BUILDING PERMIT FOR A PREVIOUS
PROJECT THAT WOULD HAVE HAD SIX
PEOPLE LIVING TOGETHER.
AND WE GOT INTO A HUGE FIGHT
OVER IT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY... THE
FINAL... IT'S LIKE THE BAD NEWS
BEARS.
THE LAST MINUTE THE ONTARIO
HUMAN RIGHTS PEOPLE STEPPED IN
AND SAID GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE,
TOWN.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT, AND SO THEY
ELIMINATED ALL OF THE LANGUAGE
THEY WERE THINKING OF PUTTING
INTO THEIR BUILDING CODE.

Steve says ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL.

Louise says BY THE TIME WE GOT READY TO
DO OUR PROJECT, IT WAS CLEAR
SAILING, NO ISSUES AT ALL.

Steve says GOOD.
PAT, YOU'RE INVOLVED IN THIS
FROM THE FACEBOOK, SOCIAL MEDIA
POINT OF VIEW.

Pat says THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says TELL ME HOW YOU GOT
INVOLVED IN THIS ISSUE.

The caption changes to "Pat. Dunn. Senior Ladies Living Together."

Pat says WELL, IT CAME OUT OF MY OWN
NEED AS A WIDOW AND A LOW-INCOME
PENSIONER.
I REALIZED THERE WAS NO WAY THAT
I WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND
ANYTHING THAT I COULD AFFORD TO
LIVE IN, AND THEN I DIDN'T WANT
TO LIVE ALONE.
SO I THOUGHT THERE MUST BE OTHER
LADIES LIKE ME, SO I PUT IT OUT
ON FACEBOOK TO PETERBOROUGH AND
LINDSAY AREA, FIGURING MAYBE 10
LADIES WOULD COME AND CHAT WITH
ME ABOUT IT.

A screenshot shows the Facebook page for Senior Ladies Living Together.

Pat continues FIRST WEEK THERE WAS 58, AND 50
THE NEXT WEEK AND 50 THE NEXT
WEEK.
AND SO I THOUGHT, OKAY, BIGGER
THAN ME.
AND SO I EITHER STOP OR I GO
FORWARD, BUT I HAVE TO GO
FORWARD AS PROVIDING SOME
SUPPORT TO ALL THESE LADIES.
SO THAT'S WHAT I CHOSE TO DO.
IT'S BECOME MY PASSION AND MY
LIFE.

Steve says WHEN YOU CREATED THIS
FACEBOOK SITE, DID YOU IMAGINE
THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TAPPED A
NERVE THE WAY YOU HAVE?

Pat says NO, I HAD NO IDEA. NO IDEA.
I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH.
EVERY DAY I LEARN SO MUCH.

Steve says LIKE WHAT?

Pat says OH, GOSH.
WELL, JUST MORE ABOUT THE WIDTHS
AND BREADTHS OF THE PROBLEM OF
HOUSING, MULTIPLE LAYERED
PROBLEMS OF HOUSING IN ONTARIO.
THE ISSUES OF LONELINESS AND HOW
THAT AFFECTS OUR WELL-BEING AS
WELL AS OUR ACTUAL PHYSICAL HEALTH.
AND THE ISSUES OF HOW, HOW DOES
ONE... HOW DOES THE SUCCESS THAT
THESE LADIES HAVE HAD, AND HOW
DO I HELP PEOPLE TO FIND THE
RIGHT FIT, TO BUILD HOMEMATE
AGREEMENTS THAT HAVE SUBSTANCE
AND ARE MANAGEABLE, THAT SORT OF
THING.
SO GOSH, I JUST LEARN EVERY DAY.

Steve says THAT IS KIND OF THE
TRICKY PART OF THIS, RIGHT?
YOU NOT ONLY NEED PEOPLE WHOSE
NEEDS MATCH UP BUT WHO HAVE
PERSONALITIES THAT WILL BE
AGREEABLE TO ONE ANOTHER.

Pat says EXACTLY.

Steve says AND WHO ARE NOT, I
GUESS, TOO AFRAID TO FACE THE
LEGAL ISSUES HEAD ON.
BECAUSE AT SOME POINT... I MEAN,
LOUISE, YOU SAID IT, AT ONE
POINT YOU'RE NOT ALL GOING TO BE
LIVING TOGETHER, AND I GUESS
THERE'S ISSUES OF WHO'S GOING TO
INHERIT MY QUARTER OF THIS
SITUATION, ALL OF THAT.

Pat says WELL, IN MY CASE, IN MY
SITUATION, IT'S ALL ABOUT
RENTING.
WE DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO
PURCHASE, NONE OF US DO, SO WE
ARE FINDING RENTALS, AND THEN OF
COURSE... AND LIVING IN RENTALS.
AND SO THERE'S NOT THE SAME
KINDS OF ISSUES.
THERE'S DIFFERENT ONES.

Steve says RIGHT.

Pat says THAT LIMIT US, LIKE THE
RENTAL MARKET.
THERE'S ZERO VACANCY RATE IN
PETERBOROUGH RIGHT NOW.
BUT THERE IS LOTS OF HOUSES FOR
SALE.

Steve says HMM.

Pat says SO THAT BECOMES ANOTHER
ISSUE, YEAH.

Steve says RIGHT.
IF THIS GETS TOO PERSONAL, YOU
JUST SAY, PAIKIN, YOU MIND YOUR
OWN DAMN BUSINESS, OKAY?

Pat says I'LL TALK ABOUT ANYTHING.

Steve says YOU WERE MARRIED.

Pat says I WAS.

Steve says HOW LONG AGO DID YOUR
HUSBAND PASS AWAY?

Pat says IT WILL BE FIVE YEARS IN NOVEMBER.

Steve says FIVE YEARS.
AND YOU LIVED TOGETHER IN A HOME
THAT YOU OWNED AT THAT POINT?

Pat says NO, ACTUALLY, WE LIVED ON A
BOAT.

Steve says YOU LIVED ON A BOAT?

Pat says YEAH, WE MET WHEN WE WERE IN
OUR EARLY 50S AFTER BOTH BEING
DIVORCED, AND WE WERE BOTH
BOATERS AND WE DECIDED WE WANTED
THAT KIND OF FUTURE, SO WE
BOUGHT A BOAT AND LIVED ON IT,
AND THEN WE TRAVELLED IN THE
CARIBBEAN.
HE DIED WHILE WE WERE IN MEXICO.

Steve says THAT SOUNDS VERY
ROMANTIC, THOUGH.

Pat says IT WAS.

Steve says AND WHY WAS IT NO
LONGER AN OPTION FOR YOU TO LIVE
ON THE BOAT AFTER HE DIED?

Pat says WELL, THE BOAT WAS COSTING ME
A THOUSAND DOLLARS U.S. JUST TO
HAVE IT SIT IN THE MARINA IN
FLORIDA.
SO THAT WASN'T GOING TO WORK.
AND WE HAD LOST A LOT OF MONEY,
BOTH OF US, IN THE 2008 OF OUR
PENSIONS AND POSSIBILITY IN OUR
INVESTMENTS, I GUESS.

Steve says YEAH.

Pat says SO WE HAD... SO I CAME BACK
REALLY TO CANADA WITHOUT HIM AND
WITH NO MONEY.

Steve says SO THE STATUS QUO WAS
NO LONGER AN OPTION.

Pat says THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says YOU HAD TO FIND AN
ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF HOUSING
YOURSELF GOING FORWARD.

Pat says AND I COULDN'T WAIT FOR THE
GOVERNMENT TO MAKE CHANGES
NEEDED.
YOU KNOW, THEY'VE KNOWN WE'VE
BEEN BABY BOOMERS COMING ALONG
FOR A LONG TIME, AND STILL
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH RENTAL
SPACES, RENT GEARED TO INCOME IS
REALLY LIMITED AND A FIVE,
TEN-YEAR WAIT WHEN I'M ALREADY
69.
SO I THOUGHT, OKAY, WELL, IF I
HAVE TO DO IT MYSELF, I'LL DO IT
MYSELF.

Steve says SO YOU PUT THIS GROUP
TOGETHER.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ALL TOGETHER ON
THIS FACEBOOK GROUP?

Pat says 1536.

Steve says OKAY!
SO IT'S A THING.

Pat says THAT'S WHAT I SAY.
IT'S A BIG ISSUE.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Steve says IT'S A THING.
AND HAVE YOU RESOLVED YOUR OWN
HOUSING SITUATION YET?

Pat says ALMOST.
I HAVE MET MY THREE LADIES.
SO THERE'S FOUR OF US, LOUISE
HERE, AND WE'VE GONE THROUGH A
PROCESS OF GETTING TO KNOW EACH
OTHER, OF FINDING THE RIGHT FIT
AMONGST US, AND NOW WE HAVE...
WE'RE LOOKING FOR A HOUSE TO
RENT.

Steve says HOUSE TO RENT.
IN PETERBOROUGH?

Pat says IN PETERBOROUGH, WHICH IS
AWKWARD, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT
VERY MUCH TO RENT.
BUT I JUST HAD A CONVERSATION
WITH A REAL ESTATE INVESTOR WHO
LIVES IN OTTAWA, A FEMALE, AND
SHE'S INTERESTED IN BEING, YOU
KNOW, HELPING WITH SOCIAL
ISSUES, AND SO SHE'S TALKING
ABOUT BUYING A HOUSE FOR US AND
RENTING IT TO US.
LONG TERM.

Steve says NEAT.

Pat says SO YOU JUST KIND OF PUT IT
OUT THERE AND THINGS START TO HAPPEN.

Steve says THERE YOU GO.
HOW MUCH... YOU KNOW, I NOTICE
IN GREAT BRITAIN RIGHT NOW,
LOUISE, THERE IS A MINISTER
RESPONSIBLE FOR LONELINESS,
WHICH IS A... YOU KNOW, THAT'S A
PRETTY NEW THING.

Louise says YEAH.

Steve says AND I WONDER HOW MUCH
OF A FACTOR DO YOU THINK
LONELINESS IS IN DRIVING THIS
PHENOMENON THAT YOU'RE A PART OF.

Louise says I THINK IT'S A BIG PART.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF
RESEARCH OUT THERE THAT, YOU
KNOW, REALLY RECOGNIZES THAT
LONELINESS IS A KILLER IN THE
LONG TERM.
LONELINESS, THERE'S ALSO RELATED
TO THAT IS A SAFETY ISSUE, YOU
KNOW, JUST TO MAKE... THERE'S
SOMEBODY AROUND TO MAKE SURE
THAT YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING
OR TO ALERT THE AUTHORITIES IF
YOU DON'T.
THAT'S REALLY NICE TO KNOW.
BUT LONELINESS, YEAH, THAT'S I
THINK A BIG DRIVER.

Steve says AND WHY WAS IT NOT AN
OPTION FOR YOU TO DO WHAT MANY
OTHER PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY DO, WHICH
IS TO MOVE INTO SOME KIND OF
RETIREMENT RESIDENCE, OR THAT
KIND OF THING?

Louise says I COULD HAVE, AND REALLY WHAT
MOTIVATED OUR MOVE IN THIS
DIRECTION WAS WATCHING MY MOM
MOVE INTO A RETIREMENT HOME IN
PORT PARRY, WHICH WAS WONDERFUL
FOR HER.
SHE LOVED IT.
IT KIND OF CREEPED ME OUT, TO
TELL THE TRUTH.

Steve says WHAT ABOUT IT CREEPED
YOU OUT?

Louise says JUST THE FORCED TOGETHERNESS.
SO SHE WAS HAVING DINNER WITH
PEOPLE THAT SHE DIDN'T CHOOSE
NECESSARILY TO HAVE DINNER WITH
EVERY DAY, AND ACTIVITIES THAT
YOU WERE ENCOURAGED TO GO TO
THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE WANTED TO.
IT JUST... IT DIDN'T... I DIDN'T
WANT TO BE THAT ORGANIZED.
AND IF I WAS GOING TO HAVE MEET
LOAF ON TUESDAY, I WANTED THAT
TO BE MY CHOICE THAT I WAS
HAVING MEAT LOAF ON TUESDAY.
SO IT WAS AROUND GETTING
CONTROL.
IT WAS ALSO THE COST, THOUGH.
THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL DRIVER,
REALLY.
WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING PLACES
FOR MY MOM, I ASKED HOW MUCH
RETIREMENT HOMES WERE GOING UP
EVERY YEAR, AND ASKED FOR THE
HISTORY, AND THEY SEEMED TO AT
THAT POINT HAVE BEEN GOING UP 3 percent
A YEAR.
SO HAVING A MATH BACKGROUND, I
TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IT WAS GOING
TO COST MY MOM, THOUGHT OF
MYSELF MAYBE 20 YEARS OUT, WHAT
THAT WOULD BE, AND DID THE
CALCULATION AND REALIZED IT
WASN'T IN THE CARDS.
I WAS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO
AFFORD THAT.
UNLESS, YOU KNOW, FOR SURE
YOU'RE GOING TO DIE QUICK.
I'VE GOT THIS DEATH THING GOING
ON, BUT REALLY, YOU KNOW, AT
THAT STAGE MY MOM LOOKED LIKE
SHE WAS GOING TO LIVE TO BE 100
AND I WASN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO
AFFORD A RETIREMENT HOME FOR
THAT KIND OF TIME.

Steve says IS THE PLAN FOR YOU
AND YOUR THREE HOUSEMATES TO BE
IN THAT HOUSE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES?

Louise says THAT'S THE PLAN.
NOW WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THERE
COULD BE OTHER... YOU KNOW, IF
THERE ARE HEALTH ISSUES THAT
MEAN YOU HAVE TO MOVE OUT,
THAT'S ONE THING.
WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THERE COULD BE
PERSONALITY CHANGES AS PEOPLE
AGE, SO THAT'S ALL PART OF OUR
LEGAL AGREEMENT, AND PEOPLE IN
THAT CASE COULD BE KIND OF VOTED
OFF THE ISLAND.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT I WONDERED.
IF SOMEBODY GETS DEMENTIA, FOR
EXAMPLE, ARE THE OTHER THREE
EXPECTED TO CARE FOR THAT PERSON?

The caption changes to "Working out the logistics."

Louise says NO, WE HAVEN'T SIGNED UP TO
BE EACH OTHER'S CAREGIVERS.
WE HAVE DESIGNED THE HOUSE IN A
WAY THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO HAVE
LIVE-IN CARE IF WE WANTED TO.
THE DEAL IS IF YOU NEED CARE,
YOU PAY FOR IT.
WE'RE SORT OF HOPING BECAUSE
WE'RE SIMILAR AGES THAT WHEN
THAT HAPPENS AT LEAST TWO PEOPLE
WILL NEED CARE AND THAT'S,
AGAIN, AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE
THAT COST AS WELL.
SO IF ALL GOES WELL, YES, WE
WOULD STAY IN THE HOUSE.
WE WOULD BRING IN MORE CARE AS
TIME MOVES ON.
AND HOPEFULLY DIE THERE.

Steve says SPEAKING OF BRINGING
IN, WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE OF YOU
MEETS SOMEBODY AND WANTS TO GET MARRIED.
IS THE NEW HUSBAND OR WIFE OR
WHATEVER ALLOWED TO MOVE IN WITH?

Louise says AS LONG AS THE OTHER PEOPLE
ARE HAPPY WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL,
THEN WE COULD... ABSOLUTELY,
WE'VE TALKED THAT THROUGH.
I MEAN, RIGHT NOW NONE OF US ARE
INVOLVED WITH ANYBODY, BUT YOU
KNOW, WE... THAT WOULD BE OKAY
TOO, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE THE
OCCASIONAL OVERNIGHT GUEST.
THAT WOULD BE JUST FINE, GOD
WILLING OR WHATEVER IT TO
HAPPEN.

[Laughter]

Louise sats BUT YES, WE HAVE TALKED THAT
THROUGH.
IT CERTAINLY COULD HAPPEN.

Steve says I THINK YOU NEED TO
SET UP A SUBSEQUENT FACEBOOK
PAGE, A BIT OF A MATCHMAKING.

Louise says FOR THE AFTER, YES.

Steve says NOW WE'VE GOT YOU
TOGETHER.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO WORK ON YOUR
SOCIAL LIFE.
THAT'S HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK.
LEGALLY SPEAKING, HOW
COMPLICATED WAS IT TO PUT IT ALL
TOGETHER?
I MEAN, DO YOU ALL FOUR OWN ONE
QUARTER OF THE HOUSE?

Louise says YES, WE DO.

Steve says IT'S LIKE THAT?

Louise says YES.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY,
BUT THAT'S HOW WE WERE ABLE TO
DO IT, AND BECAUSE THE HOUSE WAS
KIND OF A RENOVATION AND
ADDITION, WE WERE ABLE TO SET IT
UP, OUR FOUR SPACES ARE ROUGHLY
EQUAL IN SIZE AND SO ON.
SO ONE QUARTER EACH MAKES SOME
SENSE.
WE DID PUT A LEGAL AGREEMENT
TOGETHER.
TOOK A LITTLE WHILE TO DO IT,
BUT IT WASN'T THE END OF THE
WORLD.
THE QUESTION PEOPLE MOSTLY WANT
TO KNOW IS: HOW DO YOU GET OUT
AND WHAT HAPPENS...

Steve says I WAS GOING TO SAY, IF
SOMEONE WANTS OUT, DO THE OTHER
THREE HAVE TO BUY YOU OUT?

Louise says NO... WELL, NOT NECESSARILY.
SO IT'S REALLY THAT SHARE OF THE
HOUSE COULD GO UP FOR SALE, AND
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KIND
OF OUR ARRANGEMENT AND ANY SALE
IS THAT THE OTHER PEOPLE WOULD
HAVE TO APPROVE THE PERSON WHO'S
MOVING IN.

Steve says OH.

Louise says AND IF AFTER A YEAR THEY
CAN'T, THEN THE PEOPLE REMAINING
IN THE HOUSE HAVE TO BUY OUT
THAT SHARE AT MARKET VALUE.
OR WORSE CASE PUT THE WHOLE
HOUSE FOR SALE, WHICH IS PRETTY
POWERFUL BACKSTOP.

Steve says YEAH.

Louise says IT MEANS WE'RE NOT GOING TO
BE TERRIBLY PICKY, BUT WE DON'T
HAVE TO LIVE WITH MY FRIEND'S BIKER'S SON.

[Laughter]

Steve says DID YOU JUST PLUCK
THAT OUT OF THIN AIR OR IS THAT
A REAL THING?

Louise says IT'S NOT A REAL THING.

Steve says THE BIKER'S SON.
I WONDER IF THIS IS NOT A
TEMPLATE FOR OTHERS AS WELL.
YOU FOLKS ARE SENIORS, BUT I CAN
THINK OF LOTS OF MILLENNIALS,
FOR EXAMPLE, WHO ARE PROBABLY
NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD
TO BUY A HOUSE THEMSELVES, BUT
MAYBE FOUR, FIVE OR SIX OF THEM
WENT IN TOGETHER THEY COULD DO
IT.
DO YOU THINK THIS IS A TEMPLATE
FOR OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS?

The caption changes to "A model for millennials?"

Pat says IT'S A TREND THAT'S HAPPENING
IN THE UNITED STATES.
PEOPLE JUST CANNOT AFFORD TO
EITHER BUY, AND SO THEY ARE
LOOKING AT RENTAL SITUATIONS, OR
THAT THEY CAN BUY ALONE.
THEY CAN'T.
AND SO MILLENNIALS ARE LOOKING
AT THIS, AND THERE'S ACTUALLY
ARCHITECTS BUILDING, YOU KNOW,
THAT KIND OF HOUSING FOR
MILLENNIALS.
THE SINGLE PARENTS, PARTICULARLY
SINGLE FATHERS.
THERE'S A TREND THAT WAY FOR
THEM.
THEY HELP SHARE CHILD RAISING AS
WELL.
AND GOSH, IT'S JUST REALLY... I
THINK IT'S GOING TO BLOW UP,
ACTUALLY.

Steve says IN A GOOD WAY, YOU MEAN.

Louise says IN A GOOD WAY.

Pat says YES, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S
JUST SUCH A NEED, AND THEN AS
YOU MENTIONED LONELINESS, I
MEAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T
HAVE TO BE OLD.
IF THEY'RE LIVING ALONE TO BE
LONELY, AND THEY'RE FINDING OUT
WORLDWIDE AND BRITAIN THAT WHEN
PEOPLE ARE GIVEN CONFIDENTIAL
SURVEYS THEY'RE COMING OUT AND
THEY'RE SAYING, YEAH, I'M
LONELY, AND THEY'RE 30.

Louise says IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION
TOO, STEVE.
JUST LAST WEEK MARTHA AND I HAD
DINNER WITH A GROUP OF YOUNG
PEOPLE HERE IN TORONTO.

Steve says MARTHA ONE OF YOUR HOUSEMATES?

Louise says YES, ONE OF MY HOUSEMATES, A
GROUP HERE IN TORONTO WHO
RECENTLY BOUGHT A HOUSE
TOGETHER.
IN THEIR CASE THEY DON'T SHARE
THE COST EQUALLY.
AT LEAST THE COST.

A screenshot from the Toronto Star website pops up that reads "How six millennials bought a house together in downtown Toronto and built a community."

Steve says IS THAT THEM?

Louise says THAT'S THEM.
HOLY MACKEREL.
LOVELY, LOVELY PEOPLE.
IT'S WORKING REALLY WELL FOR
THEM, AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THE
BIGGEST BENEFIT BEING COMMUNITY,
THAT THEY REALLY ENJOYED HAVING
OTHER PEOPLE AROUND.

Steve says THIS IS JUST IN OUR
REMAINING MOMENTS HERE, THIS IS
ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT REALLY
SOUNDS ON THE SURFACE LIKE A
GREAT IDEA AND MEETS NEEDS AND
CAN BE TERRIFIC, BUT YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO BE SURPRISED TO HEAR
THERE ARE GOING TO BE PEOPLE
WATCHING THIS SAYING, OKAY, BUT
THE FINE PRINT IS GOING TO BE
TRICKY IN THE END.
LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IF
THERE'S A MONTH WHERE ONE OF YOU
FOUR CAN'T AFFORD THE RENT?
WHAT DO YOU DO THEN?

Pat says WELL, WE CREATED A HOMEMADE
AGREEMENT, SO IT'S ACTUALLY ON PAPER.
IT'S SIMILAR PROBABLY TO WHAT
YOU'VE DONE, AND SO PEOPLE...
YOU KNOW, THE GROUPS, OR TWO
PEOPLE MIGHT DECIDE TO LIVE
TOGETHER SIT DOWN AND GO THROUGH
THIS AND CREATE SOMETHING.
AND IT'S A FLUID DOCUMENT
BECAUSE A MONTH AFTER YOU MOVE
IN YOU MIGHT DECIDE SOMETHING
NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
AND IT'S NOT A LEGALLY BINDING
DOCUMENT, BUT IT'S MORALLY
BINDING.
SO YOU KNOW, CHOOSING YOUR
HOUSEMATES AND WHO YOU HAVE THAT
CONVERSATION WITH IS CRUCIAL.

Steve says HOW MANY CITIES AND
TOWNS ACROSS THE PROVINCE DO YOU
THINK ARE GOING TO HAVE TO
RE-THINK, YOU KNOW, SOME OF
THEIR BYLAWS WHICH, OF COURSE,
CURRENTLY PROHIBIT THIS KIND OF
ARRANGEMENT, BUT GOING FORWARD
THEY MAYBE NEED TO TAKE A SECOND
LOOK AT IT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Louise says IT'S HARD TO SAY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PLACES
MIGHT HAVE BYLAWS THAT WOULD
PREVENT THIS.
AT THE TIME THAT THAT LITTLE
FIGHT HAPPENED IN SCUGOG, THE
TOWNSHIP REALLY WENT THROUGH
SOME CONTORTIONS TO TRY TO PUT
SOME LAWS IN.
IT'S NOT AN EASY THING TO
LEGISLATE AGAINST, BECAUSE IN
FACT FAMILIES ARE DOING THIS
RIGHT NOW.
YOU KNOW, RELATED PEOPLE ARE
LIVING TOGETHER IN A HOUSE.

Pat says EXACTLY.

Louise says AND AT LEAST IN ONTARIO IT'S
PRETTY CLEAR THAT YOU CAN'T
DEFINE A FAMILY BY BLOOD
RELATIONSHIP.
A FAMILY CAN BE WHATEVER YOU
CHOOSE IT TO BE, AND YOU KNOW,
MY FAMILY HAPPENS TO BE, IN THIS
CASE, FOUR UNRELATED PEOPLE.

Pat says THERE'S A PROBLEM IN A RENTAL
AREA IN TERMS OF LEGISLATION IN
THAT THE RESIDENTIAL TENANCY ACT
DOES NOT COVER PEOPLE WHO ARE...
A WOMAN, FOR INSTANCE, IF I
OWNED A HOME AND INVITED SOMEONE
TO RENT A ROOM IN MY HOME.
IF WE SHARE A SPACE, LIKE A
KITCHEN OR A BATHROOM, THAT'S
NOT COVERED BY THE RESIDENTIAL
TENANCY ACT.
SO SOME LADIES WILL GET INTO
THAT SITUATION, MAYBE DECIDE,
YOU KNOW, SHE'S GOT A LOVELY
HOME AND SHE'S A NICE PERSON,
AND THEN THEY CAN BE EVICTED AT
A MOMENT'S NOTICE.
THERE'S NO PROCESS THAT THE
HOMEOWNER HAS TO GO THROUGH.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Steve says BUT FOR EXAMPLE, CAN
YOU SUBLET YOUR ROOM IF YOU'RE
GOING TO GO AWAY FOR TWO MONTHS
ON VACATION, OR COULD YOU AIRBNB
YOUR ROOM?

Pat says OH, DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT AIRBNB.
THAT'S ONE OF THE PROBLEMS AND
ONE OF THE REASONS WE DON'T HAVE
THE LONG-TERM RENTAL SPACES, BUT
THAT'S ANOTHER...

Steve says THAT'S ANOTHER SHOW.
BUT HAVE YOU GUYS FIGURED OUT
THOSE KINDS OF CONTINGENCIES AS
WELL?

Pat says YEAH, WE TALK ABOUT THAT.
YOU KNOW, HOW THE... HOW IT
WORKS IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO GO
AWAY FOR THREE MONTHS.
THAT'S PART OF THE HOMEMATE
AGREEMENT AS WELL.

Steve says GOT IT.
YOU GOT ALL THE BASES COVERED?

Pat says WELL, I WOULD NEVER SAY THAT.
I'M LEARNING EVERY DAY.

The caption changes to "Producer: Patricia Kozicka, @TrishKozicka."

Steve says INDEED, INDEED.
I WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR
COMING IN AND SHARING YOUR VIEWS
ON THIS IDEA.
WE WISH YOU CONTINUED SUCCESS IN
YOUR ARRANGEMENT IN PORT PARRY,
AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOU IN
PETERBOROUGH GETTING YOUR PLACE
ALL ORGANIZED.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Pat says I'M looking FORWARD TO IT.

Steve says PAT DUNN AND LOUISE
BARDSWICH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Louise and Pat say THANK YOU.

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