Transcript: Great Lakes, Great Problems | Sep 16, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and gray plaid tie.

A caption on screen reads "Great lakes, great problems. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says CATASTROPHIC FLOODING
AND DESTROYED HOMES IN
CHATHAM-KENT.
BOATHOUSES AND BUSINESSES
UNDERWATER IN THE THOUSAND
ISLANDS.
OVERFLOWING LAKES, AND THE
DAMAGE CAUSED BY THEM, ARE JUST
SOME OF THE ISSUES FACING THE
WORLD'S LARGEST RESERVE OF
SURFACE FRESHWATER, THAT'S THE
GREAT LAKES.
WITH US TO TAKE STOCK, AND
ASSESS WHAT TODAY OWES TOMORROW
TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS:
HERE'S GORD MILLER, FORMER
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER OF
ONTARIO, CURRENTLY AN ASSOCIATE
WITH ECO STRATEGY...

Gord is in his late fifties, with receding gray hair and a mustache. He's wearing a gray suit, burgundy shirt, and striped burgundy tie.

Steve continues NICOLA CRAWHALL, FORMER DEPUTY
DIRECTOR WITH THE GREAT LAKES
AND ST. LAWRENCE CITIES
INITIATIVE, NOW A PRINCIPAL AT
WESTBROOK PUBLIC AFFAIRS...

Nicola is in her late forties, with straight auburn hair in a short bob. She's wearing blue-framed glasses, a sleeveless black blouse and a beaded necklace.

Steve continues GAIL KRANTZBERG, PROFESSOR OF
ENGINEERING AND PUBLIC POLICY AT
McMASTER UNIVERSITY...

Gail is in her late fifties, with wavy brown hair in a bun. She's wearing a white blazer and a red shirt.

Steve continues AND TERRY REES, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR WITH THE FEDERATION OF
ONTARIO COTTAGERS' ASSOCIATIONS.

Terry is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short wavy gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, blue shirt, and blue tie.

Steve continues WE'RE GOING TO START OUT WITH
SOME VIDEO OF TWO OWNERS WHOSE
PROPERTIES ARE ALONG LAKE ERIE,
AND THEY EXPERIENCED SOME PRETTY
HIGH WATER AND SOME PRETTY HIGH
WINDS TOWARDS THE END OF AUGUST.
SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD, LET'S
ROLL THAT CLIP.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "August 27, 2019."

In the clip, waves of brownish water crash against an opening in a room, flooding it entirely as furniture floats.

A male voice says TIME TO GET OUT OF DODGE.

As waves crash against a fallen breakwall, a female voice says OKAY.
SO WE'VE GOT A BREAKWALL THAT IS
RELATIVELY NEW, WITHIN THE LAST
FEW YEARS, COMPLETELY COLLAPSED
INTO THE LAKE.
OUR RELATIVELY NEW DECK THAT'S
BEEN DAMAGED BEFORE BY WAVES IS
DESTROYED.
IT'S IN THE WATER.
A BRAND NEW BIG PATIO DOORS,
WHICH WERE KIND OF OUR DREAM
VISION, HAS COMPLETELY COME OFF
THE WALLS, AND ARE SITTING
INSIDE MY COTTAGE.
THE FLOOR IS ALL RIPPED UP.
IT'S JUST... IT'S WET
EVERYWHERE.
MY FRIDGE IS HORIZONTAL.
IT'S NOT GOOD.

The clip ends.

Steve says YIKES.
NICOLA, HOW COMMON IS THAT?

The caption changes to "Nicola Crawhall. Westbrook Public Affairs."
Then, it changes again to "Damaging waters."

Nicola says IT'S BECOMING MORE COMMON.
IT HAPPENED IN 2017.
IT'S HAPPENED AGAIN IN 2019.
WE HAVE RECORD HIGH LEVELS IN
LAKE ONTARIO AND THE OTHER GREAT
LAKES, AND IT'S DUE TO CLIMATE
CHANGE.

Steve says ARE YOU SURE ABOUT
THAT?

Nicola says WE ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE ABOUT
THAT.
IT'S A LOT OF WATER COMING OFF
THE CANADIAN SHIELD, COMING INTO
THE GREAT LAKES.
WATER LEVELS ARE RISING.
A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, WE WERE
SAYING THE WATER LEVELS WERE TOO
LOW.
BUT THAT'S THE FLUCTUATION WE'RE
SEEING WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

Steve says TERRY, YOU REPRESENT
COTTAGERS.
ARE YOU HEARING THESE KIND OF
STORIES A LOT?

The caption changes to "Terry Rees. Federation of Ontario Cottagers' Associations."

Terry says ABSOLUTELY.
FROM RIGHT ACROSS THE BASIN, AND
THAT'S EVERY ONE OF THE GREAT
LAKES.
THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES
WHO LIVE DIRECTLY ON THE GREAT
LAKES SHORELINES AND OWNING
THOUSANDS OF KILOMETRES OF
PRIVATE PROPERTY.
WE'RE HEARING IT FROM ACROSS THE
LANDSCAPE.

Steve says I'VE GOT A PLACE ON
THE NORTH CHANNEL, GORD... NORTH
CHANNEL OF LAKE HURON ON
MANITOULIN ISLAND AND I CAN
REMEMBER AS EARLY AS FIVE YEARS
AGO PEOPLE WERE COMPLAINING THE
WATER LEVELS WERE TOO LOW.
NOW THE WATER LEVELS ARE VERY
MUCH HIGHER UP.
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

The caption changes to "Gord Miller. Eco Strategy. Former Environmental Commissioner of Ontario."

Gord says ONE WAY IT
HAPPENS HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER
LAKE SUPERIOR FREEZES OR NOT.
BECAUSE IF LAKE SUPERIOR,
BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE,
WARMER CONDITIONS, STAYS OPEN,
DOESN'T FREEZE, THERE'S A LOT
MORE EVAPORATION OFF THE SURFACE
OF THAT HUGE BODY OF WATER.
PEOPLE SOMETIMES FORGET HOW
LARGE LAKE SUPERIOR IS.
IT'S LAKE SUPERIOR FOR A REASON.
IT'S IMMENSE EVAPORATION.
ANOTHER YEAR, THE LAKE FREEZES,
AS IT USED TO ALL THE TIME,
THERE'S MORE EVAPORATION AND
NOW THERE'S MORE RUN OFF IN
THE WATERSHED. WATER LEVELS
RISE PRECIPITOUSLY SO IT IS
TIED TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND WE
CAN IDENTIFY THAT.

Steve says GAIL, WHAT KIND OF
IMPACT DO HIGH WATERS LIKE THESE
HAVE?

The caption changes to "Gail Krantzberg. McMaster University."

Gail says APART FROM
PROPERTY DAMAGE, DESTRUCTION YOU
SAW IN THAT VIDEO, IT'S ALSO
DEVASTATING FOR SHORELINE
HABITAT.
SO THERE ARE WETLANDS THAT ARE,
IN LOW WATER PERIODS, BECOMES
EVAPORATION, THEY'RE DRY.
THE FISH ARE GONE.
THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE WATER
LEVELS GO SEVERELY HIGH, THE
WETLANDS ARE COMPLETELY WASHED
OUT.
THEY LIKE TO FLUCTUATE UP AND
DOWN BUT NOT SO SEVERELY AS TO
DESTROY THE WETLAND COMPLETELY
OR COMPLETELY FLOOD OVER THE
WETLAND.
THE WETLAND ARE THE BIOLOGICAL
ENGINE OF THE LAKES.
ASIDE FROM PROPERTY DAMAGE AND
HUMAN HEALTH, THE WHOLE
DOWNFALL, THE FISHERY CAN BE
IMPACTED BY THIS AND THE FISHERY
IS A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR
ECONOMIC ENERGY FOR THE GREAT
LAKES REGION.

Steve says IF THE PROBLEM,
NICOLA, IS CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT
IS NOT ANYTHING THAT ANY
INDIVIDUAL COTTAGE OWNER OR
BUSINESS OWNER WHO HAS GOT A
PLACE ON THE SHORELINE CAN DO
ANYTHING ABOUT IN THE IMMEDIATE
FUTURE.
EVERYBODY CAN DO THEIR LITTLE
PART, BUT THE BIG SOLUTION SEEMS
A LOT FURTHER AWAY.
IN WHICH CASE, WHAT CAN WE DO
ABOUT THIS?

The caption changes to "A changing climate."

Nicola says WELL, I
WORK SOME ENGINEERS, MUNICIPAL
ENGINEERS, IN CHATHAM-KENT AND
IN OTHER MUNICIPALITIES BEING
HIT, AND THE WAY THEY PUT IT IS:
IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION.
DEFINITELY WE SHOULD AVOID, AND
AVOID MEANS... AN AVOIDANCE
STRATEGY IS DON'T DEVELOP THERE
GOING FORWARD.
THEN YOU CAN ACCOMMODATE.
REMEMBER AFTER HURRICANE
KATRINA, THEY BUILT HOUSES ON
STILTS.
WE CAN BUILD HOUSES ON HIGHER
FOUNDATIONS.
THEN YOU CAN PREVENT.
SO YOU START BUILDING THESE
BERMS, YOU START BUILDING THESE
WALLS, BUT HARDENING THE
SHORELINE HAS PROBLEMS WITH IT
TOO.
BUT ULTIMATELY, IF IT'S IN A
REALLY SEVERE SITUATION, YOU
HAVE TO RETREAT.
YOU HAVE TO MOVE YOUR
INFRASTRUCTURE.
YOU HAVE TO MOVE THOSE HOMES.
AND THAT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT
DECISION AND MOST POLITICALLY
SENSITIVE DECISION OF ALL.

Steve says TERRY, HOW DOES THAT
RECIPE SOUND TO YOU?

Terry says WELL, I
UNFORTUNATELY AGREE WITH THAT.
AND I THINK WE NEED TO REMEMBER
THAT... AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE
BIG PICTURE AND THE BIG DOLLARS AND THE STRATEGIC APPROACH THAT
WE NEED TO TAKE AS INDIVIDUALS
AND AS MUNICIPALITIES, THE
PROVINCE AND THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENTS, ON BOTH SIDES.
BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, THIS IS
IMPACTING THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES.
PEOPLE THAT HAVE LIVED FOR
GENERATIONS IN THESE COMMUNITIES
THAT ARE OUR NEIGHBOURS, YOU
KNOW, PAY PROPERTY TAXES AND ARE
A VITAL PART OF OUR COMMUNITY.
SO THIS IS A TOUGH RECIPE AND
TOUGH PRESCRIPTION, BUT ALL OF
THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE
PART OF THE SOLUTION,
UNFORTUNATELY.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says I WAS GOING TO SAY,
HOW DO YOU, AS, WELL, A TOWN,
FOR EXAMPLE, COME TO A BUNCH OF
COTTAGE OWNERS, THOUSANDS ALONG
A SHORELINE, AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
YOU HAVE TO ABANDON YOUR
PROPERTY AND THAT'S IT, THERE'S
NO CHOICE HERE?

The caption changes to "Terry Rees, @foca_info."

Terry says WELL, YOU TALK TO MAYORS WHO
ARE HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS
AND THEY'RE SOME OF THE HARDEST
CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE EVER HAD.
YOU CAN'T TELL YOUR COMMUNITY
MEMBERS THEY NEED TO LEAVE THE
COMMUNITY.
AND, AGAIN, BACK TO THE
INDIVIDUAL HOME OWNERS, THESE
FAMILIES THAT HAVE LIVED THERE
FOR GENERATIONS, SOME OF THEM.
THESE ARE HARD, HARD
CONVERSATIONS.
AND WHEN WE SEE CHRONIC AND
PERENNIAL CONDITIONS WHERE LIFE
AND LIMB IS AT RISK, THERE ARE
SOME HARD DECISIONS THAT ARE
GOING TO HAVE TO BE MADE.
PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE INDIVIDUAL
RESPONSIBILITY ON THEIR
PROPERTY, AS THEY CAN, AS NICOLA
SUGGESTED.
SOMETIMES THERE ARE HARD
DECISIONS AS TO WHETHER YOU CAN
RETAIN, AS THE CLIP SHOWED,
WHETHER YOU CAN REALLY LIVE
THERE IN THE LONG TERM.

Steve says I MEAN, IT'S NOT
JUST THE FINANCIAL
CONSIDERATIONS BUT, YOU KNOW,
THE EMOTIONAL CONSIDERATIONS.
SOME OF THESE COTTAGES HAVE BEEN
IN FAMILIES FOR GENERATIONS.

Terry says ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S DEVASTATING TO THE
INDIVIDUALS AND TO THE FAMILIES
AND TO THE COMMUNITIES.
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE
BIG PICTURE AND THE BIG
DECISIONS THAT HAVE TO BE MADE,
BUT IT'S IMPACTING THOUSANDS OF
FAMILIES.

Steve says NOT TO MENTION
INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, FIRST
NATIONS, THAT HAVE PLACES ALONG
THESE WATERWAYS AS WELL.

Terry says ABSOLUTELY.
WE'VE TALKED AS AN ORGANIZATION
TO OUR MEMBERS ACROSS THE
PROVINCE ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF
CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW IT'S
GOING TO IMPACT THE ECOLOGY IN
PARTICULAR, AS GAIL MENTIONED.
THE HIGH WATER LEVELS THAT ARE
CHRONIC AND ONGOING ARE GOING TO
BE A PARTICULARLY TROUBLESOME
AND EXPENSIVE PROBLEM FOR
ONTARIO.

Steve says GORDON, IN YOUR
PREVIOUS INCARNATION AS THE
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER, YOU
DID A LOT OF STUDYING OF THE
GREAT LAKES AND SOME OF THE
CONCERNS AND THREATS THAT YOU
SAW THERE.
YOU'VE, I GATHER, COME OUT WITH
ANOTHER REPORT SUBSEQUENT TO
THAT IN YOUR NEW INCARNATION,
HIGHLIGHTING FOUR PARTICULAR
AREAS OF CONCERN.
WHAT ARE THEY?

The caption changes to "Gord Miller, @Ecogai."
Then, it changes again to "Not just sun and fun."

Gord says THE FOUR...
NO.
THIS IS NOT COMPREHENSIVE.
THERE ARE OTHER LEVELS OF
CONCERN, BUT WE HAD TO NARROW IT
DOWN.
WE NARROWED IT DOWN TO HIGH
WATER LEVEL, THAT ASPECT.
BEACHES BEING SWIMMABLE WITH
BACTERIAL CONTAMINATION.
THE PROBLEM OF TOXIC SUBSTANCES
IN THE GREAT LAKES.

Gail says NUTRIENTS.

Gord says OF COURSE, NUTRIENT.
THE NUTRIENT PROBLEM THAT IS
PROMINENT IN LAKE ERIE IN RECENT
TIMES, NUTRIENT... CAUSING ALGAE
BLOOMS, ALGAE BLOOMS CAUSING IN
FACT WATER CONTAMINATION, FISH
KILLS AND EVEN BIRD KILLS.
SO THOSE FOUR PROBLEM AREAS WERE
IDENTIFIED FOR US TO LOOK AT.
AS I SAY, IT'S NOT
COMPREHENSIVE, BUT THEY ARE ALL
THINGS WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT
AND MAYBE APPLY NEW INNOVATIVE
APPROACHES TO AND PERHAPS MOVE
FORWARD SUBSTANTIALLY FROM WHERE
WE WERE.

Steve says WE SHOULD SAY
PARENTHETICALLY, YOU'RE ACTUALLY
A CANDIDATE FOR ELECTIVE OFFICE.
YOU'RE RUNNING FOR THE GREENS IN
PARRY SOUND, MUSKOKA?

Gord says THAT'S TRUE.
AND A CHUNK OF THE GREAT LAKES.

Steve says INDEED.
HOW MUCH DO YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS
AT THE DOOR WHEN YOU'RE KNOCKING
ON DOORS?

Gord says IT'S A BIG CONCERN ON THE
GEORGIAN BAY SIDE OF THE RIDING,
THE PARRY SOUND SIDE, AND ALSO
OF COURSE ALL THE COTTAGE OWNERS
DOWN THE ARCHIPELAGO AND OUT
THAT AREA.
PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WATER
LEVELS AND ALSO WATER QUALITY.

Steve says GAIL, THAT LIST,
THOSE FOUR THINGS, THAT SOUNDS
LIKE... I MEAN, THAT SOUNDS LIKE
A TALL ORDER TO TRY TO DO
ANYTHING ABOUT ALL OF THOSE
THINGS.
WHAT DO YOU SAY?

The caption changes to "Gail Krantzberg, @gailkrantzberg."

Gail says WELL, I
AGREE, IT IS.
BUT I AGREE WITH GORD THAT
THAT'S JUST SOME OF WHAT NEEDS
TO BE TACKLED.
BUT THOSE ARE FIXABLE THINGS.
WE HAVE ENGINEERING SOLUTIONS TO
ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT
THE CLIMATE HAS SHIFTED, BUT WE
CAN BECOME MORE RESILIENT TO A
CHANGING CLIMATE.
WE CAN IMPLEMENT SOME OF THE
THINGS NICOLA WAS MENTIONING.
THE NUTRIENT ISSUE IS AN
ACHIEVABLE ISSUE.
WE HAVE TO STOP THE AGRICULTURAL
RUNOFF FROM POURING INTO THE
LOWER GREAT LAKES AND CAUSING
TOXIC SUBSTANCES THAT KILL
BIRDS, THAT KILL DOGS.
IT'S ALL ACHIEVABLE.
BUT THEN THERE ARE OTHER THINGS
THAT WE STILL HAVEN'T EVEN PUT
ON THAT LIST THAT ALSO NEED TO
BE TAKEN CARE OF.

Steve says WHAT WOULD YOU ADD?

Gail says VERY TOPICAL IN THE NEWS
THESE DAYS IS PLASTIC POLLUTION,
RIGHT?
MICRO PLASTIC POLLUTION.
I KNOW OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS
LOOKING AT BANNING SINGLE USE
PLASTICS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, BUT A
LOT OF THE SUBSTITUTES THAT ARE
BIOLOGICALLY BASED HAVE THE SAME
PROPERTIES, BIODEGRADABLE
PLASTICS TURN INTO TINY PLASTICS
AND ANIMALS EAT IT AND STARVE TO
DEATH.
WE KNOW WE HAVE IT IN OUR
BODIES.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S DOING TO
US.
THAT TO ME IS A VERY LONG-TERM
THREAT THAT'S ONLY GOING TO GET
WORSE AND IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED
TO GRAPPLE WITH, AND MAYBE UNDER
THE STRATEGY GORD HAS PUT
TOGETHER UNDER TOXIC SUBSTANCES
WE CAN INTEGRATE PLASTICS INTO
ANOTHER NUISANCE ELEMENT IN THAT
SOUP THAT'S GETTING INTO THE
GREAT LAKES AND AS THE
POPULATION GROWS WILL JUST GROW.

Steve says AS LISTS GO, THE
FOUR THINGS HE HAS ON HIS LIST,
ARE THOSE THE SORT OF NUMBER
ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR THINGS WE
OUGHT TO BE HITTING ON RIGHT NOW?

Nicola says I THINK THERE ARE.
THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT ISN'T
IN THE REPORT AND THAT'S
INVASIVE SPECIES.
AND INVASIVE SPECIES HAVE
PERVASIVE IMPACTS FROM ZEBRA
MUSSELS CLEARING THE WATER SO IT
GETS HOTTER AND THE ALGAE
PROLIFERATES, TO THE ASIAN CARP
COMING UP THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER
AND POTENTIALLY GETTING INTO THE
GREAT LAKES, HAVING DISASTROUS
EFFECTS ON OUR COMMERCIAL AND
RECREATIONAL FISHERY.
THAT'S THE OTHER REALLY BIG ONE,
I THINK.
BUT AS GAIL SAID, OTHER THAN THE
ASIAN CARP ISSUE, WHICH IS A
TOUGH ONE, ALL OF THESE HAVE
SOLUTIONS.
BUT IT REALLY DOES REQUIRE
THINKING ABOUT DIFFERENT
TECHNOLOGIES, DIFFERENT
INNOVATIONS.
THE REPORT THAT GORD'S WORKED
ON, THE GREAT LAKES ACTION PLAN
2030, HAS A TECHNICAL SOLUTION
TO EACH ONE OF THESE ISSUES.
IT'S NOT SOLELY TECHNICAL.
BUT WHEN YOU START THINKING, YOU
KNOW, LIKE A MILLENNIAL, YOU
START THINKING ABOUT, WHAT KIND
OF TECHNOLOGIES ARE OUT THERE TO
HELP US, SUDDENLY IT DOESN'T
LOOK SO DAUNTING, BUT IT DOES
REQUIRE GOVERNMENT INVESTMENT.

Steve says DID YOU PUT A PRICE
TAG ON THAT INVESTMENT?

The caption changes to "Money, money, money."

Gord says WE DID.
IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO SO.
RIGHT OFF THE TOP, BEFORE I SAY
THE NUMBER, I'M GOING TO SAY
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
POSSIBLY BUYING PROPERTY AND
MOVING PROPERTIES OFF, THE
NUMBERS GET VERY LARGE VERY
QUICKLY.
WE PRICED IT AT 100 MILLION DOLLARS A
YEAR FOR 10 YEARS.
THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.
BUT THE AMERICANS, THEY'VE
JUMPED THE GUN.
THEY'RE WAY AHEAD OF US.
THEY HAVE A GREAT LAKES
RESTORATION INITIATIVE AND
THEY'RE UP TO 300 MILLION DOLLARS A
YEAR AND A COUPLE BILLION DOLLARS ALREADY SPENT.
WE'RE MIRRORING THAT IN OUR OWN
MODEST FINANCIAL WAYS.
WE HAVE TO MIRROR THE AMERICANS,
WE CAN'T EQUAL THEM.
NEVERTHELESS, THEY HAVE MADE A
COMMITMENT ON THEIR SIDE OF THE
LAKES AND THEY HAVE BEEN DOING
THESE THINGS.
THIS IS I THINK A MODEST
RESPONSE TO THAT, TO LOOKING
AFTER OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Steve says YOU WANT
100 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR TEN
YEARS.
WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY DOING SO FAR?

Gord says PUTTING A FIGURE ON THAT
WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT.
FROM PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE, IT'S A
VERY SMALL NUMBER.
I REMEMBER WHEN GAIL USED TO
WORK WITH THE MINISTRY OF
ENVIRONMENT, YOUR BUDGET WAS
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, BUT NOW
THAT WHOLE BUDGET HAS SHRUNK
DOWN TO A TINY BIT.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD PUT... JUST
GUESS.
I WOULD SAY WE'RE NO MORE THAN
20 OR 30 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Steve says SUFFICE TO SAY, THAT
AIN'T GOING TO GET IT DONE?

Gord says OH, NO.

Steve says YOU'RE LAUGHING AT ME BECAUSE...

Gail says OH, NO.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Gord says REMEMBER YOUR
BUDGET WHEN YOU WERE HEAD OF THE
GREAT LAKES?

Gail says SO WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR THE
PROVINCE IN THE '90s, WE HAD A
4 OR 5 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGET
JUST FOR THESE GEOGRAPHICALLY
DEGRADED CONDITIONS, THEY'RE
CALLED "AREAS OF CONCERN."
WITHIN THREE YEARS, THAT WENT
DOWN TO 100,000.
FULL STOP.
YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH THAT.
THAT IS JUST A PLOY OF SAYING,
WELL, WE DIDN'T DESTROY... WE
DIDN'T TERMINATE THE PROGRAM, WE
CUT THE PROGRAM.
IT BASICALLY WAS IN EFFECT
TERMINATED, AS YOU KNOW.
BUT THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT IS
ENORMOUS, OKAY?
GREAT LAKES SURVIVAL IS A PIECE
OF WORK THAT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
DID THROUGH THE INTERNATIONAL
ASSOCIATION OF GREAT LAKES
RESEARCH.
I HAD THE PLEASURE OF CO-EDITING
THE REPORT.
AND WHAT WE DID WAS LOOK AT THE
GREAT LAKES RESTORATION
INITIATIVE, LOOK AT THE
INVESTMENTS ON THE CANADIAN SIDE
OF THE BORDER, AND SAY, IF YOU
INVESTED IN CLEANING UP THESE
LOCATIONS, WHAT'S THE ECONOMIC
BOON TO THOSE PLACES?
AND IT WAS EASILY 3 OR 4 TO
THE DOLLAR.

Steve says ECONOMIC BOON FROM WHAT?
YOU PUT THE MONEY IN; WHAT COMES OUT?

Gail says IMAGINE YOU ARE GOING TO BUY
A PROPERTY AND YOU'RE ON A
HARBOUR THAT IS SLIMY GREEN.
YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE THERE.
SO YOU DON'T.
YOU RESTORE THAT HARBOUR SO THAT
IT'S BEAUTIFUL WATER QUALITY,
AND PROPERTY VALUES ESCALATE.
THEY JUST JUMP.
TOURISM ESCALATES.
SO IT'S PROPERTY VALUES.
IT'S PEOPLE WANTING TO MOVE TO
THAT LOCATION.
IT'S TOURISM.

Gord says FISHERIES.

Gail says IT'S BUSINESSES... VERY GOOD.
IT'S JUST ALL THE ECONOMIC
OPPORTUNITY.
SO YOU INVEST A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS
SOMEWHERE AND NOW YOU HAVE FOUR
OR FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN ADDED REVENUE FOR THE BENEFIT
OF A CLEAN, HEALTHY, RESTORED
WATERFRONT.
AND PEOPLE JUST FLOCK TO IT.
WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR THE
PROVINCE, I WOULD GET PHONE
CALLS SAYING, WHERE ARE THOSE
GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATIONS BECAUSE
I'M A FISHERMAN.
THAT'S WHERE I DON'T WANT TO GO.

Steve says HUH.
SO PEOPLE KNOW.

Gail says THEY KNOW.

Steve says THEY KNOW WHERE TO
GO AND WHERE NOT TO GO.

Gail says YOU DECLARE SUCCESS.
YOU MARKET YOURSELF AS A PLACE
WHERE THE WATER IS CLEAN, THE
ENVIRONMENT IS CLEAN, THE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR A HEALTHY
LIFESTYLE ARE THERE, AND THE
ECONOMIES IN THOSE REGION BLOOM,
BOOM.

Gord says THE INSURANCE
ASPECT, IF YOU LIKE, CALL IT
THAT, A MAJOR AMERICAN CITY LOST
THEIR WATER SUPPLY FOR 400,000
PEOPLE BECAUSE OF BLUE-GREEN
ALGAE TOXINS.

Steve says WHICH CITY WAS THIS?

Gail says TOLEDO, OHIO.

Gord says TOLEDO, OHIO HAD SHUT DOWN
THEIR WATER SYSTEM BECAUSE OF
MICROSYSTEM, A TOXIC ASSOCIATED
WITH BLUE-GREEN ALGAE.
THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT COST?
WE DON'T HAVE TO SHUT DOWN OUR
WATER SYSTEM IN TORONTO.
WE HAVE FABULOUS WATER IN
TORONTO. THANK GOODNESS.
BUT WE HAVE TO INVEST IN KEEPING
IT THAT WAY.

Steve says I PRESUME AS THE
HEAD OF A COTTAGERS ASSOCIATION,
TERRY, YOUR JOB IS TO... THE
WORD "LOBBY" SOUNDS SO
PEJORATIVE, BUT YOU TALK TO THE
GOVERNMENT ABOUT THE
ADVISABILITY OF MAKING THESE
KINDS OF INVESTMENTS.
WHAT DO YOU HEAR BACK?

Terry says THE MESSAGE WE
LIKE TO DELIVER AND THIS IS
BUILDING OFF WHAT YOU ALREADY
HEARD IS WE CAN'T AFFORD NOT TO
MAKE THESE KINDS OF INVESTMENTS.
I MEAN, MONEY IS LIMITED.
WE KNOW ENOUGH TO MAKE THOSE
KIND OF SMART DECISIONS NOW,
WHETHER THEY'RE ENGINEERING OR
WHETHER THEY'RE POLICY OR
WHETHER THEY'RE PROVINCIAL
POLICY OR LAND USE PLANNING
POLICIES.
I'M NOT ALWAYS CERTAIN THAT IN A
FOUR-YEAR POLITICAL CYCLE THAT
THE LONGER-TERM IMPACTS ALWAYS
RESONATE, AND THAT'S ANY
GOVERNMENT, I THINK, HAS GOT THE
SAME CHALLENGE.
I THINK IT'S BECOMING CLEARER
ALL THE TIME, AND IT'S THE
MUNICIPAL LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT
THAT ENDS UP BEARING A LOT OF
THIS... YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S
ENGINEERING OR THE INUNDATED
INFRASTRUCTURE, PROPERTY OWNERS
WHO CAN'T GET INSURANCE, MAYBE
WHOLE NEIGHBOURHOODS WHO WON'T
BE ABLE TO BE INSURED.
THESE ARE ALL REALLY COMPELLING
ARGUMENTS AND I THINK IT'S...
IT'S STARTING TO GET SOME
RESONANCE.
BUT WE TALKED OFF-CAMERA ABOUT
THE FACT THERE ARE LOTS OF
PLANS.
WE'VE DOCUMENTED LOTS OF THIS.
LOTS OF SMART PEOPLE HAVE SAID
THE RIGHT KIND OF THINGS AND
WE'VE USED ALL THE INFORMATION
WE'VE GOT.
WE NEED BETTER INFORMATION
BECAUSE IT'S A COMPLEX AND
CHANGING STORY.
BUT WE NEED TO START DOING
SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, ACTION IS OVERDUE.

Steve says NICOLA, IN YOUR
EXPERIENCE, DO YOU THINK OUR
POLITICAL LEADERS BELIEVE THIS,
UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETHING NEEDS
TO BE DONE, IT'S JUST GETTING TO
THE NEXT STEP, ACTUALLY
BUDGETING THE DOLLARS TO MAKE IT
HAPPEN?

Nicola says YOU KNOW,
WE SAW THE PREMIER IN BILLY
BOOTS, I GUESS, WHEN THERE WAS
THE OTTAWA RIVER FLOODING, JUST
AROUND THE TIME THAT THERE WERE
ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT CUTS TO
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES, AND I
THINK THERE'S A CHANGE OF HEART.
HE THEN APPOINTED DOUG McNEIL,
WHO IS THE PROVINCIAL FLOODING
ADVISOR, TO PROVIDE A REPORT TO
HIM TO SAY, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO
DO ABOUT THIS FLOODING?
SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT DOUG
McNEIL WILL DELIVER A REPORT
THAT REALLY REFLECTS WHAT'S
HAPPENING.
DOUG McNEIL IS AN ENGINEER,
SO, YOU KNOW, GAIL'S AN
ENGINEER.
SHE KNOWS HOW ENGINEERS THINK.
IT'S ABOUT RISK MANAGEMENT.
AND IF CLIMATE CHANGE HAS
CHANGED THE RISK CALCULATION,
YOU'VE GOT TO CHANGE YOUR
MANAGEMENT OF THE PROBLEM.
THERE'S NO POINT IN SAYING, "I'M
GOING TO PRETEND THAT THE RISK
IS THE SAME AS IT WAS 50 YEARS
AGO, SO I'M NOT GOING TO DO
ANYTHING."

Steve says THE TRICK IS,
THERE'S THREE LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT HERE, THOUGH, THAT
HAVE A PIECE OF THE ACTION, AND
THEY OFTEN PLAY ONE OFF AGAINST
THE OTHER.
SO HOW DO YOU KNOW... OKAY, THIS
IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
RESPONSIBILITY, THIS IS THE
PROVINCE'S RESPONSIBILITY, THE
MUNICIPALITIES CAN DO THIS.
HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE EVERYBODY
DOES THEIR JOB AS OPPOSED TO FOB
OFF THE RESPONSIBILITY ON
SOMEBODY ELSE?

Gail says THE WHOLE
GOVERNANCE MODEL IS A VERY
COMPLICATED ONE.
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
I WOULD SAY THIS.
IF SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE
NATIONAL INTEREST THERE'S A
FEDERAL LOW.
THE GREAT LAKES ARE A NATIONAL
INTEREST.
THE GREAT LAKES ARE CLOSE TO
HALF THE GDP GENERATED IN
CANADA.
SO TO THINK OF THE GREAT LAKES
AS A REGIONAL THING... YOU KNOW,
IT'S JUST ONTARIO'S
RESPONSIBILITY, IS A FALLACY.
SO IT'S A NATIONAL PRIORITY.
IN FACT, WE HAVE BINATIONAL
ACCORDS WITH THE UNITED STATES,
AGREEMENTS ON COLLABORATING TO
RESTORE THE HEALTH AND INTEGRITY
OF THE GREAT LAKES REGION.

Steve says SO IT'S AN
INTERNATIONAL PROJECT, REALLY.

Gail says IT'S A BINATIONAL,
INTERNATIONAL PROJECT, YES, BUT
IN ORDER FOR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT... OUR FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO KEEP ITS
COMMITMENTS WITH THE UNITED
STATES TO MAKE THE LAKES GREAT
AGAIN, THEY NEED ONTARIO,
BECAUSE ONTARIO'S RESPONSIBLE
FOR CERTAIN REGULATIONS AND
LEGISLATION AND ACTIVITIES AS
WELL.
SO WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN CANADA AND
ONTARIO RESPECTING THE GREAT
LAKES BASIN ON WHAT EACH ORDER
OF GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO DO AND
GOING TO COMMIT AND THEY PUT
MONEY ON THE TABLE, THEY COME UP
WITH WORK PLANS.
SO THERE'S A COLLABORATIVE
APPROACH THERE.
THE MISSING LINK HERE IS HOW TO
PROVIDE THE CAPACITY FOR
MUNICIPALITIES TO RESPOND.
AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A
CHANGING CLIMATE, FOR EXAMPLE,
DO MUNICIPALITIES HAVE THE
CAPACITY TO ADAPT TO THAT
CHANGING CLIMATE, SOME MORE
SOPHISTICATED ONES MAY AND SOME
SIMPLY DON'T.
SO THERE'S A ROLE FOR THE
PROVINCE THEN TO HELP
MUNICIPALITIES.
IT'S GOT TO BE... IT'S A SHARED
RESPONSIBILITY.
THERE'S NO ONE IN CHARGE BUT
THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME
ACCOUNTABILITY AND I THINK THE
ACCOUNTABILITY LIES WITH THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PRINCIPALLY,
WITH THE PROVINCE, AND THEN WITH
THE A-2 MUNICIPALITIES TO ENABLE
THEM TO TAKE ACTION THAT WILL
MAKE THEIR LOCATIONS VITAL.

Steve says I SHOULD ASK YOU
ABOUT THE PROVINCIAL ROLE HERE,
GIVEN YOUR FORMER
RESPONSIBILITIES AS
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER OF
ONTARIO.
THIS IS A GOVERNMENT THAT PUT
SIGNS UP ON SOME BORDER
COMMUNITIES SAYING "WE'RE OPEN
FOR BUSINESS."
AND YOU'VE ALL MADE THE CASE
HERE THAT THE RETURN ON
INVESTMENT FOR CLEANING UP OUR
GREAT LAKES IS TERRIFIC.

Gord says YES, IT IS.

Steve says SO IF THE BUSINESS
CASE IS OBVIOUS, WHAT ARE WE
WAITING FOR?

Gord says WELL, A HA, THAT'S A TOUGH
QUESTION TO ANSWER ON BEHALF OF
THE GOVERNMENT.
ON THE FACE OF IT IT SHOULD BE
AN EASY SOLUTION.
IT SHOULD BE AN EASY THING TO
PUT MONEY INTO AND DEVELOP AND
CULTIVATE.
ONE POINT THAT HASN'T COME UP
HERE AND IT'S IMPORTANT IN TERMS
OF A COLLABORATIVE THAT I'M
INVOLVED IN CO-CHAIRING WITH
JEAN, IT'S THE GREAT LAKES ST.
LAWRENCE INITIATIVE.
TORONTO AND TORONTO ISLAND.
IT'S ALL PART OF THE FACT WE
COULDN'T DUMP ANY MORE WATER
DOWN ON QUEBEC AND THE ST.
LAWRENCE.
THEY HAVE TREMENDOUS FLOODING
PROBLEMS DOWN THERE.
IT'S NOT ALWAYS ONE SYSTEM,
QUEBEC AND ONTARIO OFF THE BAT,
THAT'S A NATIONAL ISSUE.
WE ARE IMPACTING THEM.
OUR DECISIONS IMPACT THEIR
DECISIONS, LET'S SAY.
THE WHOLE NEW PORTION OF THE
WORK THAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE
IMMERSED IN IT RIGHT NOW IS THE
ST. LAWRENCE PART OF THIS WHOLE
PROBLEM WHICH IS INTIMATELY
TIED.

Steve says TERRY?

Terry says I WAS GOING TO
ADD, I WAS ON THE OTTAWA RIVER
THIS YEAR AND THEY HAD
TREMENDOUS PROBLEMS, OBVIOUSLY,
AND PROPERTIES THAT WERE...
HOMES THAT ARE WELL ABOVE THE
HIGH WATER MARK, WHAT WE CALLED
THE HIGH WATER MARK, WERE
KNOCKED OFF THEIR PIERS AND
RENDERED UNLIVABLE.
SO TO GORD'S POINT, IT'S A
PAN... IT'S A CANADIAN ISSUE AND
INTERNATIONAL ISSUE, AND I'D ADD
MAYBE ONTO WHAT GAIL SAID ABOUT
THE POLICY IMPLICATIONS, YOU
KNOW, WHEN WE STRIKE THESE
AGREEMENTS WITH THE U.S. AND
CANADA AND WITH CANADA AND
ONTARIO, WE REALLY NEED TARGETS
AND SOME TIME LINES AND
HOPEFULLY THE MONEY WILL FOLLOW
BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAKE SOME
OBJECT... YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF
DIVVYING WHO DOES WHAT, THAT'S
IMPORTANT AND CRITICAL TO FIGURE
OUT, BUT IF WE CAN AGREE AND SET
SOME OBJECTIVES ABOUT CLEANING
UP THE REMEDIAL ACTION AREAS
ABOUT DEALING WITH WATER
MANAGEMENT PLANNING AND OTHER
IMPORTANT CRITICAL MATTERS
RELATED TO THE STATE OF THE
GREAT LAKES, WE NEED TO SET
OBJECTIVES AND BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE TO THOSE.

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Gord says YOUR QUESTION
IS, I DON'T THINK IT HAS.
I THINK ABOUT IT... IT HASN'T
SUNK IN HOW IMPORTANT THE GREAT
LAKES ARE TO OUR ECONOMY.
IT REALLY HASN'T.
IF THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN
STEPPING AWAY AND GETTING AWAY
WITH AND NOT JUST THE RECENT
GOVERNMENT, I'M TALKING
GOVERNMENTS ALL THE WAY BACK TO
THE '80s AND '90s HAVE BEEN
STEPPING AWAY AND GETTING AWAY
WITH IT.
BUT AS THE DAMAGE IS
ACCUMULATING, THE PROBLEMS
ACCUMULATE.
WE HAVE TO WAKE UP AND TURN OUR
ATTENTION TO THE GREAT LAKES.
IT'S ONE OF THE HUGEST... HUGE
ENVIRONMENTAL, ECOLOGICAL AND
ECONOMIC THINGS WE HAVE IN THIS
PART OF NORTH AMERICA.

Steve says IS THERE A ROLE FOR,
I DON'T KNOW WHAT, INNOVATION,
NEW TECHNOLOGY TO HELP US OUT OF THIS?

Gord says YES.

Steve says FOR EXAMPLE...

Gord says FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETHING AS
SIMPLE AS BEACHES.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOKED AT,
WELL, THE PROBLEM WITH SO MANY
BEACHES BEING CLOSED, 15 PERCENT
OF THE BEACHES ARE UNUSABLE ON
THE UPPER GREAT LAKES.
WHY IS THAT?
PART OF THE REASON... THE
TECHNOLOGY ASSOCIATED WITH THE
WATER-TESTING TAKES TOO LONG.
THERE ARE BETTER TECHNIQUES AND
THEY COULD BE IMPLEMENTED AND
GIVE US MUCH FASTER RESPONSES,
AND IN TERMS OF... OH, ANOTHER
EXAMPLE OF TECHNOLOGY, IN TERMS
OF THE NUTRIENT PROBLEM.
THE UNITED STATES HAS PIONEERED
WONDERFUL TECHNOLOGIES OF
TRACKING AND IDENTIFYING WITH
ALL THE DATA THAT'S AVAILABLE TO
US NOW WITH SATELLITES AND
AGRICULTURAL DATABASES, WE CAN
ACTUALLY PINPOINT WHERE THE
PROBLEMS, WHERE THE PHOSPHORUS
IS COMING FROM AND WE CAN MUCH
BETTER TARGET THE KIND OF
RESPONSES.
SO THERE ARE TECHNOLOGIES THAT
ARE READILY AVAILABLE AND
IMPLEMENTED.
WE JUST HAVE TO TURN OUR
ATTENTION TO IT.
AS TERRY SAYS, LET'S SET SOME
OBJECTIVES AND ASSIGN SOME
MONEY.

Steve says I KNOW SINCE YOU
WERE HERE FOR THE PROGRAM IN
WHICH WE DISCUSSED THIS, THIS IS
SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, THERE WAS
CONSIDERABLE FEAR THAT IN
TRUMP'S AMERICA, THIS WAS GOING
TO BE A MUCH LOWER PRIORITY, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE EPA WAS BEING
DEFUNDED AND ALL THIS KIND OF
STUFF.
HOWEVER, I AM HEARING IN THIS
DISCUSSION THAT THE AMERICANS
ARE DOING SOME THINGS BETTER
THAN US.
IS THAT RIGHT, NICOLA?

Nicola says IT'S FASCINATING.
IT WAS AN ABSOLUTE COINCIDENCE.
I WAS IN WASHINGTON THE DAY THAT
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
ANNOUNCED ITS CUTS, ITS PROPOSED
CUTS TO G.L.R.I.

Steve says G.L.R.I.?

Nicola says GREAT LAKES RESTORATION INITIATIVE.
IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS,
STARTED UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH,
IMPLEMENTED BY BARACK OBAMA, HAS
STRONG BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.
AND I WATCHED AT THIS
LEGISLATIVE BREAKFAST ONE BY
ONE, A DEMOCRAT AND A REPUBLICAN
SENATOR OR REPRESENTATIVE FROM
THE HOUSE AND LAMBASTING THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S PROPOSAL.
I WAS JUST AMAZED THAT SOMEHOW
THE GREAT LAKES REGION ON THE
THE U.S. SIDE CAME TOGETHER
IN A BIPARTISAN WAY TO SAY WE
WANT THE KIND OF MONEY THE
EVERGLADES IS GETTING, THE
EVERGLADES ARE GETTING A LOT OF
MONEY. THEY LOBBIED FOR YEARS.
THEY HAD MAYORS, THEY HAD
TRIBES, THEY HAD STATES ALL
COMING TOGETHER.

Steve says DID IT WORK?

Nicola says AND IT WORKED.
THEY'VE HAD OVER 2 BILLION DOLLARS IN
FEDERAL SPENDING ON GREAT LAKES
PROJECTS, RESTORATION PROJECTS,
WATERFRONT PROJECTS, WETLANDS
PROJECTS, AREAS OF CONCERN
CLEANED UP.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT KIND OF
MONEY.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT KIND OF
MONEY EVER.

Gord says OR THAT KIND OF FOCUS IN
GOVERNMENT.

Nicola says OR THAT KIND OF FOCUS IN
GOVERNMENT.

Steve says IS THAT BECAUSE THE
COALITION OF THE WILLING NEEDED
TO COME TOGETHER TO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED
WELL ENOUGH?

Gail says IT'S JOBS ALSO, RIGHT?
REPUBLICANS AND DEMONSTRATES ALL
RECOGNIZED THAT THE GREAT LAKES
INITIATIVE CREATES JOBS IN THEIR
COMMUNITY.
IT GROWS THE ECONOMY.
AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
EARLIER, THE CLEANUP OF THESE
DEGRADED LOCATIONS GROWS THE
ECONOMY.
AND THEY SAID TO TRUMP, "FORGET
IT.
YOU'RE NOT CUTTING THIS."
AND I'M HOPING THAT OUR FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY
UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT THEY'VE
INVESTED IN BRINGS BACK TAXES TO
THE GOVERNMENT... I MEAN, BUT WE
NEED THAT KIND OF LOBBY.
I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD THAT
KIND OF PASSION HERE WITH OUR...
WITHIN THE CONVERSATION.
I KNOW THAT MINISTER McKENNA,
OUR ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE
CHANGE MINISTER, FEDERAL
MINISTER, IS VERY PASSIONATE
ABOUT THE GREAT LAKES.
WILL THE ELECTION PROFILE THAT?
I KNOW THE ELECTION IS PROMISING
TO PROFILE CLIMATE CHANGE.
WELL, IN THAT CONTEXT, IF WE CAN
PROFILE WHAT IT'S DOING TO THE
HUGE AREA OF THE GREAT LAKES,
THEN MAYBE THAT FOCUS ON GREAT
LAKES WILL FINALLY BE TUNED UP.

Steve says WELL, TO THAT END
AND BEFORE THE CLOCKS RUNS OUT
ON US HERE, CAN YOU TELL US...
THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE
WATCHING US RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE
A DIRECT RELATIONSHIP TO THE
GREAT LAKES, RIGHT?
THEY HAVE A JOB THAT DEPENDS ON
IT, THEY HAVE A COTTAGE NEAR IT,
THEY LIVE ON IT, WHATEVER.
WHAT CAN THEY DO?

The caption changes to "A precious resource."

Terry says SURE, WE ALL HAVE A ROLE.
YOU TALKED ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY.
THAT'S ONLY ONE PIECE OF THE
PUZZLE.
WE EXPECT THE POLICYMAKERS TO
STEP UP... WE TALKED ABOUT THAT
AT GREAT LENGTH.
HOME OWNERS HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY
ON THEIR OWN PROPERTIES.
IT'S TAKING INDIVIDUAL ACTION TO
LOWER THEIR RISKS AND TO THE
EXTENT THEY CAN.
SOME PROPERTIES, AS NICOLA
SUGGESTED, ARE AT PARTICULAR
RISK AND HAVE MORE SEVERE AND
POSSIBLY DIRE OUTCOMES...

Steve says LOWERING THE RISK
MEANS WHAT?

Terry says IT MEANS YOU CAN GET SOME
EXPERT ADVICE ABOUT HARDENING
YOUR PROPERTY... HARDENING
SHORELINES UNDERSTANDABLY HAS
SOME COMPLICATIONS.
BUT MAKING SURE YOU'VE GOT YOUR
PROPERTY AND YOUR FAMILY AWAY
FROM RISK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE,
LOWERING YOUR OWN PERSONAL RISK,
YOU KNOW, AND UNDERSTANDING...
SPEAKING TO YOUR MUNICIPALITY
ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS AND HELPING
THEM WITH THEIR COMMUNITY-WIDE
CONCERNS, WHETHER THAT'S
INFRASTRUCTURE OR THEIR
POLICIES, BUT TAKING STEPS ON
YOUR OWN PROPERTY.
I MEAN, GAIL MENTIONED ONLY
BRIEFLY IN THIS CONVERSATION
ABOUT HOW THE ECOLOGY IS BEING
IMPACTED, BUT RETAINING NATIONAL
INFRASTRUCTURE IS SOMETHING WE
HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT MUCH AT ALL...

Steve says AGAIN, THAT MEANS
WHAT? RETAINING NATURAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

Terry says TO THE EXTENT AS INDIVIDUAL
PROPERTY OWNERS AND MUNICIPAL
PLANNERS AND OTHERS RETAIN
THINGS LIKE WETLANDS, NATURAL
SHORELINES AND ALL THOSE SOFT,
SPONGY BITS OF OUR ENVIRONMENT
THAT CAN HELP AMELIORATE SOME OF
THE PROBLEMS WITH, YOU KNOW,
SEVERE WATER FLOWS AND
PRECIPITATION.
SO TO THE EXTENT WE CAN RETAIN
VEGETATION, TREES, AND
VEGETATION AT OR NEAR THE
SHORELINE, THOSE ARE ALL
POSITIVE THINGS.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_OConnor."

Steve says THE MAN FROM COTTAGE
COUNTRY GETS THE LAST WORD.
THAT'S TERRY REES FROM THE
FEDERATION OF ONTARIO COTTAGERS'
ASSOCIATIONS ALONG WITH NICOLA
CRAWHALL FROM THE... WELL, THE
FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE
GREAT LAKES AND ST. LAWRENCE
CITIES INITIATIVE.
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE,
GAIL KRANTZBERG, PROFESSOR OF
ENGINEERING AND PUBLIC POLICY AT
McMASTER UNIVERSITY IN HAMILTON.
AND GORD MILLER, THE FORMER
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER FOR
THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, NOW AN
ASSOCIATE WITH ECO STRATEGY.
THANKS, EVERYBODY.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

The guests say THANK YOU.

Watch: Great Lakes, Great Problems