Transcript: Internet Afterlife | Oct 15, 2019

Nam sits in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a green blazer over a black shirt.

A caption on screen reads "Internet Afterlife. Nam Kiwanuka, @namshine, @theagenda."

Nam says WHEN YOU'RE DEAD, WHO
GETS YOUR TWITTER FOLLOWERS?
WHO GETS YOUR INSTAGRAM PROFILE?
WHO GETS YOUR ONLINE TRADING
ACCOUNT?
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT MANY OF
US THINK ABOUT, BUT AUTHOR
SHARON HARTUNG'S NEW BOOK
EXPLAINS WHY WE SHOULD.
HER BOOK IS CALLED: "YOUR
DIGITAL UNDERTAKER: EXPLORING
DEATH IN THE DIGITAL AGE IN
CANADA," AND IT BRINGS SHARON
TO OUR STUDIO TONIGHT. HI.

Sharon is in her fifties, with wavy blond hair and mullets. She's wearing glasses and a blue blazer.
A picture of her book appears briefly on screen. The cover is black, with a drawing of a red heart.

Sharon says HI.
DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

Nam says IT'S VERY NICE TO MEET
YOU.
FIRST BIG TV APPEARANCE.
IT'S GREAT IT'S "THE AGENDA."
YOU WRITE THROUGHOUT THE BOOK
THAT YOUR BODY CAN'T BURY
ITSELF.
WHEN IT COMES TO TALKING ABOUT
DEATH, WE WERE JUST TALKING
ABOUT IT A SECOND AGO, IT'S
SOMETHING WE KNOW IS GOING TO
HAPPEN BUT WE DON'T LIKE TALKING
ABOUT IT.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO TALKING
ABOUT DEATH, HOW DO WE TAKE THE
EMOTION OUT OF IT AND APPROACH
PLANNING IT LIKE PLANNING A
DEATH LIKE MAYBE A PROJECT
MANAGER WOULD, AS YOU SUGGEST IN
THE BOOK?

The caption changes to "Sharon Hartung. Author, 'Your digital undertaker.'"
Then, it changes again to "A will and a way."

Sharon says YEAH.
WE OBVIOUSLY AVOID THE TOPIC
BECAUSE LESS THAN 30 percent HAVE A
WILL SO WE'RE REALLY AVOIDING A
TOPIC.
THE OTHER THING I LEARNED
THROUGH MY MOTHER'S ESTATE IS WE
DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW
ABOUT BEING AN EXECUTOR AND ALL
THE QUESTIONS YOU WISHED TO ASK,
YOU DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.

Nam says THIS IS WHAT SET YOU
OUT ON THE JOURNEY.
YOUR MOTHER PASSED AND THEN YOU
HAD TO MANAGE HER ESTATE.
SO DURING THAT WHOLE PROCESS,
YOU'RE GRIEVING.
AND THEN YOU FIND OUT SHE
DOESN'T HAVE A WILL.
AND IN WRITING THIS BOOK, YOU
WANT US TO AVOID THAT.

Sharon says ABSOLUTELY.

Nam says HOW DO WE TAKE THAT
EMOTION OUT WHEN WE'RE PLANNING
OUR EVENTUAL PASSING?

The caption changes to "Sharon Hartung, @undertakertech."

Sharon says HOPEFULLY YOU CAN USE THE
PROJECT MANAGEMENT FRAMEWORK IN
THE BOOK.
EVEN THE TECHNOLOGY
CONVERSATIONS.
MORE THAN 70 percent OF NORTH AMERICANS
HAVE FACEBOOK.
SO WHY NOT START THE
CONVERSATION TO SAY, HEY, MOM,
DAD, AND UNCLE, YOU HAVE
FACEBOOK.
FACEBOOK HAS A PRE-PLANNING TOOL
CALLED LEGACY CONTACT.
LET'S SET THAT UP.
AND BACK-END YOUR WAY INTO THE
MORE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS
ABOUT FUNERALS OR WILLS.
I THINK WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
TODAY, BECAUSE OUR LIVES ARE SO
COMPLICATED, IS THE EXECUTIVE...
EXECUTOR JOB IS GOING TO BE
PRETTY COMPLICATED.
I'M ENCOURAGING ALL FUTURE
EXECUTORS TO ASK QUESTIONS OF
THEIR LOVED ONES SO THEY CAN BE
BETTER PREPARED TO MEET THE
WISHES OF THEIR LOVED ONES.

Nam says IN THE BOOK YOU WRITE
ABOUT ESTATE.
WHEN I HEAR ESTATE, I THINK
ABOUT THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND.
WHAT DOES ESTATE PLANNING
ACTUALLY MEAN FOR THE AVERAGE
PERSON IN ONTARIO?

Sharon says ESTATE PLANNING IS NOT A TERM
THAT I REALLY UNDERSTOOD MYSELF
BEFORE I WROTE THIS BOOK, BUT
WHEN YOU OWN POSSESSIONS LIKE A
HOME OR A BANK ACCOUNT, THAT'S
ALL PART OF YOUR ESTATE.
IT'S JUST A WORD THE ESTATE
INDUSTRY USES.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO DOCUMENT YOUR
WISHES ABOUT TAKING CARE OF YOUR
LOVED ONES.
THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
TO DO THAT YOU NEED TO SIT DOWN
AND WRITE A WILL AND LIST THE
THINGS YOU OWN AND WHO YOU WOULD
LIKE TO RECEIVE EACH OF THEM.
WE HAVE COMPLICATED, DIVERSE
FAMILIES TODAY.
WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE
MAKE SURE WE TAKE CARE OF THEM?

Nam says YOU MENTIONED 50 percent OF
CANADIANS DON'T HAVE A WILL.
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DIE AND
DON'T HAVE A WILL?

Sharon says THE ESTATE PEOPLE SAYING IT'S
DYING INTESTATE.
EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS ON DEATH
IS COVERED BY RULES.
YOU MAY NOT DEAL WITH THE LAW
WHILE YOU'RE LIVING, BUT
EVERYTHING ABOUT DEATH IS
COVERED BY LOTS OF DIFFERENT
RULES AND RULES ABOUT, IF A WILL
IS VALID, RULES ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE WITHOUT A
WILL.
SO EACH PROVINCIAL LEGISLATION,
PROVINCIAL AND TERRITORIAL
LEGISLATION, WILL SET OUT WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE WITHOUT A
WILL.
IT LAYS IT OUT AS A FORMULA AND
YOU DON'T HAVE ANY CHOICES AFTER
THAT.

Nam says WHICH MAKES IT MORE
COMPLICATED.
SO DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU DIE,
IT'S A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES.

Sharon says CORRECT, CORRECT, DIFFERENT
SET OF RULES.

Nam says WE LIVE IN A WORLD
WHERE WE VALUE PRIVACY AND YET
WE SHARE A LOT OF CONTENT
ONLINE.

Sharon says RIGHT.

Nam says WHY SHOULD WE
RECONSIDER HOW WE WRITE AN
ONLINE OBITUARY.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Sharon says THAT'S IMPORTANT.
I THINK WE NEED A RE-THINK ON
THE OBITUARY.
I KNOW THE GENEALOGY GROUP WON'T
BE HAPPY BECAUSE IT PROVIDES A
LOT OF VALUABLE INFORMATION FOR
RESEARCH.
WE TEND TO PROVIDE WAY TOO MUCH
INFORMATION, OUR FIRST NAME, OUR
MIDDLE NAME, PARENTS' NAMES,
WHAT WE'RE DOING.
WE KNOW... IN A PAPER OBITUARY
WHEN PEOPLE ARE AWAY FROM THEIR
HOMES.
WITH THE GLOBAL INTERNET, YOU'RE
GIVING AWAY ALL THAT PERSONAL
INFORMATION ONLINE.

Nam says SOMETHING THAT A LOT
OF PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT,
WHICH I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL I
READ IT IN YOUR BOOK, IS EVEN
WHEN YOU'RE SHARING A PICTURE
ONLINE, IT HAS META DATA, WHICH
ALSO CAN SUGGEST WHERE YOU LIVE,
ET CETERA.

Sharon says RIGHT.
THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION WE
GIVE AWAY.
A LOT OF PROVIDERS WE USE ON
SOCIAL MEDIA ALLOWS YOU TO SET
YOUR PRIVACY SO YOU CAN RESTRICT
WHO SEES THOSE PHOTOS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T USE THOSE
RESTRICTIONS.
WHEN WE DIE, THOSE THINGS
CONTINUE TO STAY OUT THERE
UNLESS WE LEFT WISHES ABOUT I'D
LIKE MY FACEBOOK TO BE
MEMORIALIZED OR SHUT DOWN.

Nam says YOU CALL THESE ASSETS, RIGHT?

The caption changes to "Ethereal assets."

Sharon says YES.
THE ESTATE INDUSTRY CALLS OUR
PROPERTY AND THE THINGS WE OWN,
THEY CALL THEM ASSETS.
SO WE HAVE A NEW CLASS OF ASSETS
AND WE'LL BE THE FIRST
GENERATION TO BE TRANSFERRING
OUR DIGITAL ESTATES NOW, THAT'S
OUR LOYALTY POINTS, MAYBE
WE HAVE UNREGULATED
CRYPTOCURRENCIES, MAYBE WHEN
THOSE BECOME REGULATED, THERE
WILL BE THOSE.
IT'S OUR e-mail ACCOUNTS, GAMING
TOKENS, AND YOUTUBE CHANNELS,
FOR EXAMPLE.

Nam says YOU MENTIONED THERE
ARE A LOT OF BANK ACCOUNTS WITH
MONEY BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T
PLAN BEFORE THEY DIED, THE MONEY
IS JUST SITTING THERE.

Sharon says RIGHT.
ALL YOUR DIGITAL ASSETS BY THEIR
CHARACTER ARE VIRTUAL.
SO IF YOU DON'T TELL THE
EXECUTOR YOU HAVE THEM, THEY'RE
GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO FINE.
WE'RE LOSING PHYSICAL ASSETS.
THE BANK OF CANADA HAS A LOST
REGISTRY.
IF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT IS DORMANT,
IT GOES IN THERE.
IT'S GROWING.
AND THERE ARE BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS OF UNCLAIMED PROPERTY IN
EACH OF THE PROVINCES.
ONLY THREE PROVINCES... I THINK
ALBERTA, QUEBEC... CAN'T
REMEMBER THE LAST ONE... AND
BRITISH COLUMBIA HAVE LOST
PROPERTY REGISTRIES.
SO WE'RE LOSING PHYSICAL ASSETS,
NEVER MIND DIGITAL ASSETS.
SO THAT POOR EXECUTOR IS GOING
TO BE WALKING INTO YOUR HOME
OFFICE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE
LOOKING FOR BANK STATEMENTS THAT
DON'T EXIST, BECAUSE YOU DO
EVERYTHING ONLINE, THERE'S
NOTHING IN THE MAILBOX ANYMORE,
THEY'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT A
BLANK SCREEN.
THE ROLE OF EXECUTOR HAS
FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED.

Nam says YOU SAY IT'S EASIER IN
THE '80S THAN NOW.

Sharon says A TYPICAL PERSON WOULD HAVE
PROBABLY BANKED AT ONE BANK, NOT
THE MYRIAD OF FINANCIAL
INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAVE OR
STORES THAT BECAME BANKS OR
ONLINE ONLY VIRTUAL BANKS.
WE PAY ALL OUR BILLS ONLINE.
THOSE NEED TO BE SHUT DOWN.
THE EXECUTOR IS FACED WITH A
BRAND NEW CHALLENGE.
HISTORICALLY, EVEN CORPORATE
EXECUTORS RELIED ON PAPER
STATEMENTS AND THE MAILBOX, GETS
THE MAIL REDIRECTED AND FIGURE
OUT WHAT ASSETS YOU OWN.

Nam says I'M THINKING ABOUT MY
SITUATION.
IT WOULD BE SO OVERWHELMING FOR
ANYONE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THOSE
ARE.
I ALSO HAVE A HARD TIME FIGURING
OUT WHAT THEY ARE ON A DAILY
BASIS.

Sharon says RIGHT.
IN OUR VIRTUAL WORLD, I'VE LOST
TRACK OF HOW MANY DIFFERENT
ONLINE ACCOUNTS I HAVE.
YOU START UP A YOUTUBE
CHANNEL.
SUDDENLY YOU HAVE TO GET
GRAPHICS SOFTWARE AND SUDDENLY
YOU HAVE FIVE MORE ACCOUNTS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THE ESTATE
INDUSTRY HAS RECOMMENDED ASIDE
FROM GET A WILL IS CREATE AN
INVENTORY OR A LIST, A SIMPLE
LIST OF WHAT YOU OWN.
IT CAN BE JUST A LIST OF THE
INSTITUTIONS YOU DEAL WITH, AND
THAT'S LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF WHAT
MOST PEOPLE DO.
AND THEN I RECOMMEND CREATING A
LIST OF ALL YOUR DIGITAL ASSETS
CAN BE OVERWHELMING, IS PICK THE
THREE DIGITAL ASSETS YOU WOULD
BE DEVASTATED IF THEY WERE LOST.
MAYBE THOSE ARE FAMILY DIGITAL
PHOTOS AND MEMORIES THAT WE ALL
DO ONLINE, MAYBE THAT'S YOUR
LOYALTY POINTS.
WHEN MY GRANDMOTHER DIED, I
SWEAR SHE HAD A MILLION ZELLERS
POINTS.
I NEVER KNEW WHAT HAPPENED TO
THEM.
NOW WE HAVE TREMENDOUS LOYALTY
POINTS WE SAVE AND EVEN
UNREGULATED CRYPTOCURRENCIES,
VERY UNIQUE TECHNICAL ASPECT TO
THEM.
THERE'S NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY TO
GO TO TO GET THE PASSWORD RESET.
YOU HAVE TO LEAVE INSTRUCTIONS
FOR THE EXECUTOR.

Nam says WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR
SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS WHEN WE DIE?

Sharon says THEY KEEP LIVING ON.
UNFORTUNATELY, I'M SEEING MORE
AND MORE PEOPLE TELLING ME ABOUT
LINKEDIN, THEY'RE GETTING
LINKEDIN ANNIVERSARY NOTICES
FROM PEOPLE WHO DIED.
I'VE HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME.
I FEEL FOR THE FAMILIES BECAUSE
THEY PROBABLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT
TO DO.
ON THE GOOD NEWS, YOU CAN PRETTY
WELL SHUT DOWN ANY SINGLE
ACCOUNT.
THE REAL ISSUE IS IF YOU WANT TO
TRANSFER THE ASSET.
SO FOR SOCIAL MEDIA, YOU DON'T
EVEN REQUIRE A PASSWORD.
YOU CAN GO ONLINE.
MOST SOCIAL MEDIA SITES HAVE
PROVISIONS WHERE YOU CAN SIMPLY
FILL OUT A FORM, PROVIDE A LINK
TO OBITUARY OR PERHAPS DEATH
CERTIFICATE AND THEY WILL CLOSE
THE ACCOUNT.
THE REAL ISSUE, THOUGH, IN THE
DIGITAL AGE IS WE MIGHT HAVE
WISHES ABOUT BEING MEMORIALIZED.
MAYBE WE WOULD LIKE OUR PHOTOS
TO BE LEFT UP SO OUR FAMILY CAN
CELEBRATE OUR LIFE ONLINE OR
REMEMBER US ONLINE.
SO THOSE WISHES HAVE TO BE
DOCUMENTED AND WE HAVE TO PLAN
IN ADVANCE IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE
TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

Nam says IF WE DON'T EXPRESS IT
IN WRITING, NO ONE WOULD KNOW THAT.

Sharon says NO ONE WOULD KNOW THAT AND
THOSE ACCOUNTS SIT THERE
DORMANT.

Nam says YOU MENTIONED
YOUTUBE A SECOND AGO.
WHAT ABOUT DIGITAL ASSETS THAT
WE MAKE MONEY OFF?

Sharon says I LIKE TO THINK OF DIGITAL
ASSETS AS OUR MONEY, OUR MEMORY,
AND OUR RECORDS.
THOSE ONES NEED SOME CAREFUL
PLANNING.
YOU KNOW, I RECOMMEND PEOPLE GO
TO A LAWYER AND TALK ABOUT HOW
TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S
PROVISIONS FOR THOSE
SPECIFICALLY.
YOU MAY WANT TO SET UP A
COMPANY.
YOU MAY WANT TO TRANSFER THEM IN
TRANCE.
THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF DIFFERENT
INSTRUMENTS THEY CAN APPLY,
DEPENDING ON YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES.
BUT IF YOU'RE GETTING AD REVENUE
OR CLICK REVENUE AND YOU KNOW
YOU'VE GOT A GREAT YOUTUBE
CHANNEL FOLLOWING, YOU REALLY
NEED TO SIT DOWN AND PLAN FOR
THOSE AS WELL.

Nam says I WANT TO READ
SOMETHING THAT YOU WROTE IN THE
BOOK ABOUT PLANNING VERSUS NOT
PLANNING. AND YOU WRITE...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Password protected in death." The quote reads "Passwords are critical for accessing most online accounts and, in a perfect world, you would create and maintain a digital asset inventory and a separate list of current passwords stored somewhere securely (available to the executor, of course). Unfortunately, this rarely happens and the issue is only going to get more complicated as biometrics, such as retinal scans and fingerprints are used to authenticate access. The technology industry will need to consider these estate planning and estate administration requirements as they continue to tighten things to deal with identity theft and cyber security."
Quoted from Sharon Hartung, "Your Digital Undertaker." 2019.

Nam says CAN YOU GIVE US AN
EXAMPLE OF THE LEGAL WRANGLING
YOU MIGHT HAVE TO COME UP
AGAINST IN A CASE WHERE YOU
DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO A LOVED
ONE'S ACCOUNTS?

The caption changes to "Living well in death."

Sharon says WELL, LET'S START, FIRST OF
ALL, THE BIGGEST BARRIER TO ALL
OUR ONLINE ACCOUNTS IS THE TERMS
OF SERVICE WE HAVE WITH THE
PROVIDER THAT WE HAVE SIGNED UP
FOR.
THERE'S A STUDY OUT OF QUEEN'S
UNIVERSITY CALLED BEYOND THE
CLOUD, RESEARCH THEY'VE DONE.
THEY LOOKED AT 35 DIFFERENT
ONLINE PROVIDERS IN TERMS OF
WHAT PROVISIONS ARE THAT WE CAN
LEVERAGE AS CONSUMERS TO GET
ACCESS TO THOSE DIGITAL ASSETS.
THEY FOUND THAT 85 percent OF CLOUD
PROVIDERS HAD NO PROVISIONS IN
THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE.
SO IF YOU DON'T PRE-PLAN, YOU'RE
GOING TO END UP IN A FIGHT WITH
THESE SERVICE PROVIDERS.

Nam says BUT SHOULD IT BE A FIGHT?

Sharon says IT SHOULDN'T BE A FIGHT.
THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, WE SHOULD
HAVE THE SAME SPECTRUM OF
CHOICES THAT WE HAVE IN ESTATE
PLANNING.
WHEN YOU THINK OF BASIC ESTATE
PLANNING, WE HAVE THE WILL,
THERE COULD BE A TRUST, THERE
COULD BE AN INSURANCE POLICY,
BENEFICIARY DESIGNATION, JOINT
ASSETS AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT
THINGS.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE VERY LIMITED.
WE HAVE THE TERMS OF SERVICE THE
PROVIDERS GIVE.
WHETHER THEY GIVE US
PRE-PLANNING, LIKE GOOGLE AND
FACEBOOK HAS, THE LEGACY
CONTACT, I BELIEVE WE HAVE NEED
OTHER OPTIONS PROVIDED BY THE
TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY.
WE NEED JOINT ASSETS.
WE NEED BENEFICIARY
DESIGNATIONS.
WE NEED DIFFERENT WAYS.
AND THE LAW HAS TO CATCH UP AS
WELL.
SO IN CANADA, THERE'S PROPOSED
LAW THAT'S PROPOSED TO BE
ADOPTED IN EACH PROVINCE ABOUT
WHAT AN EXECUTOR IS ALLOWED TO
DO.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE NO PROVINCES
THAT HAS ADOPTED ANY OF THE LAW.

Nam says WHICH MAKES IT REALLY
DIFFICULT FOR LOVED ONES GOING
THROUGH DIFFICULT TIMES TO BEGIN
WITH TO ACCESS THAT INFORMATION.

Sharon says RIGHT.
THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO
OBVIOUSLY IS START THE
PREPLANNING WHICH IS MOST
IMPORTANT AND PUT PLANNING
AROUND IT AND WAIT AS THE
TECHNOLOGY EVOLVES AND THE LAW
EVOLVES SO WE CAN DO OTHER
THINGS AS THOSE OPTIONS BECOME
AVAILABLE TO US.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Nam says WHAT ARE THE MOST
DIFFICULT BEQUEST BARRIERS YOU
CAN COME UP WITH WHEN A PERSON
DIES WITHOUT GIVING THEIR
PASSWORD?

Sharon says PASSWORDS ARE REALLY
DIFFICULT.
I SAY THAT PASSWORDS ARE NOT A
VERY EFFECTIVE ESTATE PLANNING
TOOL AT ALL.
THEY CAN GET MESSED UP.
IN FACT, YOU'RE ALMOST REQUIRING
AN EXECUTOR TO HACK BECAUSE MOST
OF THE TERMS OF SERVICE SAY YOU
CAN'T USE THE PASSWORD.
THIS IS WHY I THINK THERE'S A
VOID RIGHT NOW IN THE LAW AND
THE TECHNOLOGY PROVIDERS TO GIVE
US MORE OPTIONS SO THAT WE CAN
DO PRE-PLANNING, RIGHT?
SO FACEBOOK OBVIOUSLY HAS IT.
GOOGLE HAS IT.
MANY DON'T.

Nam says IF SOMEONE DOESN'T
HAVE A WILL, LET ALONE WISHES
FOR THE DIGITAL AFTER-LIFE,
WHAT'S THE ONE THING THAT YOU
WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THEY DO?

Sharon says WELL, I'M KIND OF LEANING
BACK TO YOU... IT'S MOST
IMPORTANT TO GET THE WILL
BECAUSE BESIDES SETTING OUT YOUR
WISHES FOR YOUR LOVED ONES AND
WHAT YOU WANT DONE WITH YOUR
ASSETS, IT GIVES THE EXECUTOR
AUTHORITY TO DO LOTS OF
DIFFERENT THINGS, INCLUDING
ACCESSING YOUR DIGITAL ASSETS.
THE WAY THAT THE LAW HAS EVOLVED
IN THE U.S., MOST OF THE U.S.
ESTATES HAVE ADOPTED A LAW THAT
REQUIRES PRE-PLANNING OR
DIRECTIVES IN ADVANCE.
AND MOST PEOPLE WILL THINK,
THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
THAT'S THE STATES AND WE'RE
GOING TO BE DIFFERENT IN CANADA.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME LAWS
THAT ALLOWS THE EXECUTOR ACCESS.
THE ISSUE IS WHERE ARE ALL THE
BIG TECH PROVIDERS IN THE U.S.?
SO RIGHT NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE
TERMS OF SERVICE UNDER GOOGLE,
IF YOU HAVE NOT USED THEIR
PRE-PLANNING TOOL, IT SAYS YOU
REQUIRE A U.S. COURT ORDER.
HERE YOU ARE IN CANADA AS AN
EXECUTOR, YOU'RE GOING INTO
SOMEONE'S EMAIL, TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY HAVE AND
WHAT BILLS THEY HAVE, YOU'RE
GOING TO BE STUCK NEEDING TO GET
A U.S. COURT ORDER.

Nam says HOW IS IT CHANGING THE
DEATH CARE AND ESTATE PLANNING
INDUSTRY?

The caption changes to "Until media do us part."

Sharon says I THINK IT'S CHANGING IT IN
THREE WAYS.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DIGITAL
ASSETS.
WE HAVE A NEW CLASS OF ASSETS
THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE THAT
WE NEED TO CONSIDER IN OUR
PLANNING PROCESS.
NUMBER TWO IS THE EXECUTOR'S JOB
HAS FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED.
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE HAVE REALLY
BEGUN TO REALIZE THE IMPACT OF
THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO PRINTED
STATEMENTS.
AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT... WE'RE
ON THE CUSP OF THE LARGE
ESTROGEN RACAL WEALTH TRANSFER
IN HISTORY AS THE BABY BOOMERS
RETIRE, YOU ADD IN THESE NEW
ASSET CLASS OF DIGITAL ASSETS,
YOU ADD IN THE TECHNOLOGY AND
FIN TECH, WE'RE GOING TO USE
TECH TO MANAGE TECH.
YOU SPRINKLE THAT WITH
MILLENNIAL ENERGY, THE WAY THEY
WANT TO THINK, AND YOU ADD IN
THE DEATH POSITIVE MOVEMENT, SO
Hashtag DEATH POSITIVE, IT'S ABOUT NO
AVOIDANCE, BIG IN EUROPE, BIG IN
THE U.S., NOW STARTING IN
CANADA.
YOU PUT THE FIVE INGREDIENTS
TOGETHER, YOU HAVE A
TRANSFORMATION IN THE DEATH CARE
AND ESTATE INDUSTRY.

Nam says YOU SAY THE DEATH
POSITIVE MOVEMENT.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO
PLAY A BIGGER ROLE TO GET US TO
SPEAK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS...
WELL, WE ARE GOING TO DIE.
WE KNOW THAT.
BUT TO ACTUALLY CONFRONT IT AND
THEN MAKE PLANS FOR WHAT HAPPENS
AFTER WE DIE?

Sharon says I THINK SO.
I THINK IT'S FUELED BY SOCIAL
MEDIA.
SO THE PALLIATIVE MOVEMENT IN
THE U.K. IS TALKING TO THE
PALLIATIVE MOVEMENT IN THE U.S.
THERE'S END-OF-LIFE DOULAS, NEW
ROLES THAT HAVE EMERGED.
DIFFERENT WAYS FROM THE WHOLE
FUNERAL AND DEATH CARE
PERSPECTIVE.
LIVING WAKES INSTEAD OF
CELEBRATIONS OF LIFE.
MEMORIALS.
REEF MEMORIALS WHERE YOU PUT
YOUR ASHES AT SEA.
THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS
THAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO
RE-THINK DEATH, RE-THINK THE
RITUALIZATION, AND WANT TO DO IT
IN A WAY THAT'S PERHAPS MORE
MEANINGFUL TO THEM AND THEIR
FAMILY AND MAYBE TAKE IT BACK TO
THE WAY WE DIED 100 YEARS AGO
WHEN OUR FAMILY SURROUNDED US
INSTEAD OF A HOSPITAL.

Nam says IT KIND OF BRINGS US
TO THE BEGINNING OF OUR
CONVERSATION WHEN I WAS ASKING
YOU, HOW DO YOU TAKE THE
EMOTION... BUT MAYBE JUST
CHANGING THE EMOTION OR CHANGE
THE PERSPECTIVE.

Sharon says CHANGE THE CONVERSATION.
FORMALIZING IT A LITTLE BIT IN
THE WAY I APPROACH THE BOOK BY
WAY OF A STRUCTURAL
CONVERSATION, BUT IT'S ALSO THE
DEATH POSITIVE MOVEMENT.
ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS I
SAW JUST FOLLOWING THAT GROUP ON
TWITTER AS I LEARNED ABOUT THEM
WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING THE BOOK
IS, AUSTRALIA HAS A DEATH
AWARENESS DAY, AND IT'S ALL
ABOUT DEATH ADVOCACY AND DEATH
LITERACY, TO UNDERSTAND THAT
WE'RE GOING TO DIE AND WE NEED
TO THINK ABOUT IT AND WE NEED TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH OUR
LOVED ONES.

Nam says DO YOU THINK OUR LAWS
ARE CATCHING UP TO OUR DIGITAL
AFTER-LIVES?

Sharon says I THINK THE LAWS ARE
ATTEMPTING TO.
THERE'S A UNIFORM CONFERENCE LAW
IN CANADA.
THEY TABLED THAT IN 2016.
IT HASN'T YET BEEN ADOPTED IN
EACH PROVINCE.
THAT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT.
I'M SEEING LAW SOCIETIES AND I'M
PART OF THE SOCIETY OF TRUST AND
ESTATE PRACTITIONERS.
THEY STARTED A GLOBAL DIGITAL
ASSET WORKING GROUP AND NOW HAVE
A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP.
ANY ESTATE PLANNER IN CANADA CAN
JOIN AND THEY HAVE DIGITAL ASSET
INVENTORIES AND GUIDANCE TO HELP
THE ESTATE PLANNERS GET UP TO
SPEED AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS
WITH THEIR CLIENTS.

The caption changes to "Producer: Liane Kotler, @LianeKotler."

Nam says SHARON, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR WRITING THIS BOOK.
IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU
ON "THE AGENDA."

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Sharon says GREAT.

Watch: Internet Afterlife