Transcript: Confronting the Catholic Church; Minority Government Plans | Nov 22, 2019

Steve stands in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and spotted brown tie.
A wall screen behind him reads "The week in review."

Steve says "THE AGENDA" THIS WEEK
ANALYZED ONTARIO'S EARLY LOSSES
SELLING POT; SPOKE TO FORMER
INDEPENDENT MP JANE PHILPOTT
ABOUT HER POLITICAL CAREER;
LOOKED AT THE PSYCHOLOGY THAT
INCLINES PEOPLE TO BE
POLITICALLY LEFT OR RIGHT
LEANING; AND WENT BEHIND THE
SCENES OF THE DOCUMENTARY,
"PREY."
THE AGENDA'S WEEK IN REVIEW
BEGINS WITH A LOOK AT THE
BUSINESS OF MAKING MINORITY
PARLIAMENT WORK.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

In a clip, Steve sits with three guests.
A caption reads "The minority players. Peace, order, and good compromise?"
Then, it changes to "Peggy Nash. Former NDP MP."

Peggy is in her sixties, with blond hair in a short bob. She's wearing round glasses, a dark blue blazer over a black shirt, and a chain necklace.

She says I THINK THERE IS THAT LACKING
NATIONAL PROJECT FOR US TO GET
BEHIND, AND DON'T GET ME WRONG,
I'M NOT SAYING WE NEED TO GO TO
WAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THAT WOULD BE THE ANTITHESIS OF
IT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING
CONSTRUCTIVE THAT AS A NATION
WE...

Steve says YOU WOULD THINK
CLIMATE CHANGE WOULD BE THAT
MISSION, WOULDN'T IT?

Peggy says AND THERE IS THE PERFECT
EXAMPLE.
AND YOU KNOW, I... PETER, WHO I
HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR, I'D
LOVE TO SEE HIM INFLUENCE HIS
PARTY TO GET THEM ON THE PAGE SO
THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AROUND
CLIMATE CHANGE.
IT'S DIFFICULT WHEN WE'RE SUCH A
BIG ENERGY-PRODUCING NATION, BUT
WE'VE GOT TO GET THERE, AND THAT
COULD BE THE ONE THAT...

Steve says DO YOU SEE THAT ROLE FOR
YOURSELF RIGHT NOW?

The caption changes to "Peter MacKay. Former Conservative Cabinet Minister. Baker McKenzie. @PeterMacKay."

Peter McKenzie is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and striped brick-red tie.

He says IT MAY SURPRISE PEOPLE THAT
I'M SITTING HERE NODDING, PEGGY,
ON A LOT OF THESE IMPORTANT
ISSUES, AS I HAVE WITH OTHER
COMMENTATORS, AND MARTHA TOUCHED
ON IT, AND PEGGY DID, ABOUT
HAVING A NATIONAL PURPOSE,
SOMETHING THAT DOES ACTUALLY
UNIFY SOME OF THE FRACTUROUS
NATURE OF OUR COUNTRY.
REGIONAL PARTIES.
WE HAVE A SEPARATIST PARTY NOW
BACK IN PARLIAMENT IN NUMBERS
WITH THE BLOC.
THERE'S A LOT OF TENSION FO
MATING IN THE WEST THAT MARTHA
CAN SPEAK TO IN MORE DETAIL, BUT
ISSUE OF CLIMATE CHANGE, IT'S
REAL.
I SPENT A LOT OF TIME WORKING IN
THE ARCTIC AND THEN WENT BACK AS
DEFENCE MINISTER WHEN WE WERE
DOING ARCTIC MANOEUVRES THERE
WITH THE CANADIAN FORCES.
YOU CAN SEE THE CHANGE, AND
PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRACKED IT, THE
SCIENTISTS MOST IMPORTANTLY, BUT
MORE IMPORTANT IN THAT IS THE
PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE AND SEE
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THEIR
ENVIRONMENT.
AND SO CANADA CAN AND SHOULD
PLAY A LEADING ROLE.
HOW DO WE GET THERE IS THE
QUESTION.
ANDREW SCHEER ZEROED IN ON TWO
THINGS BUT DIDN'T PERHAPS GIVE
AS MUCH DETAIL AS WAS NECESSARY
FOR PEOPLE TO BUY INTO IT.
HAVING A TECHNOLOGY RESPONSE AS
OPPOSED TO A TAX RESPONSE,
BECAUSE PEGGY AND I MAY DISAGREE
ON THIS, BUT WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE
ARE SAYING I'M NOT GETTING AS
MUCH IN RETURN BECAUSE I'M
PAYING A LOT OF MONEY, AND
THAT'S TRUE FOR EVERYBODY, WE
ARE A VERY HIGH TAXED, VERY
HIGHLY REGULATED ENVIRONMENT IN
THIS COUNTRY TODAY, WHICH IS
HARD FOR BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY
START-UPS.
AND THERE ARE SOME BRILLIANT
START-UPS IN THE AREA OF GREEN
TECHNOLOGY, BUT THE TRANSITION
PERIOD, EVEN THE UNITED NATIONS
TALKS ABOUT A TRANSITION PERIOD,
AND IT'S BEEN COAL, FOSSIL
FUELS, OIL AND GAS, NATURAL GAS,
AND THEN TO RENEWABLES.
SO IT'S A PERIOD OF TIME NOW
WHERE WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS
GETTING TO FEWER EMISSIONS, ZERO
EMISSIONS.
PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD.
BUT I WOULD SUPPLANT RIGHT HERE
THAT WITH OIL AND GAS IN WESTERN
PROVINCES THAT CAN GO TO BOTH
COASTS, THAT CAN BE EXPORTED TO
THE WORLD, THAT ALSO HAS A
GEOPOLITICAL IMPLICATION,
BECAUSE WE'RE PUSHING BACK ON
IRAN, VENEZUELA, SAUDI ARABIA,
COUNTRIES WE CRITICIZE FOR THEIR
HUMAN RIGHTS, BUT WE BUY THEIR
PRODUCT IN LARGE AMOUNTS.
ESPECIALLY IN THE EAST.
WHEREAS WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO
EXPORT A HIGHLY REGULATED,
VALUABLE COMMODITY TO THE WORLD,
GENERATE MASSIVE WEALTH, JOBS,
OPPORTUNITY IN CANADA, AND PLOW
THOSE RESOURCES BACK INTO THE
NEW GREEN ECONOMY.
BECAUSE WE CAN'T PAY FOR IT AND
KEEP PACE OTHERWISE.
THAT'S A BIG PROJECT.
THAT'S A BIG NATIONAL PURPOSE.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."
Then, it changes again to "onnect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says LET ME PUT THAT TO
MARTHA HAUL FIND LEI.
YOU WERE ON THIS PROGRAM A
COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO TALKING
ABOUT THE ANGST THAT WESTERN
CANADA IS SUFFERING FROM RIGHT
NOW, AND WE TALKED ABOUT WEXIT
AND HOW STRONG THAT IS.
DO YOU THINK THE VISION JUST
DESCRIBED BY PETER MacKAY, GIVEN
WHO'S IN THIS MINORITY
PARLIAMENT, THERE ARE GREENS WHO
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ARE GOING
TO BE FOR PIPELINES.
THERE'S AN NDP LEADER WHO
REPRESENTS A BRITISH COLUMBIA
RIDING WHO UNDER NO
CIRCUMSTANCES IS GOING TO BE FOR
THAT PIPELINE.
CAN THIS PARLIAMENT GET AROUND
THAT VISION?

The caption changes to "Martha Hall Findlay. Canada West Foundation."

Martha is in her fifties, with long straight graying hair. She's wearing black-framed glasses, a beige jacket and a white sweater.

She says I AM SO GLAD TO HEAR PETER
SAY EVERYTHING HE SAID, AND I
ACTUALLY COMPLETELY AGREE WITH
HIM, EVEN THOUGH WE COME FROM
DIFFERENT POLITICAL BACKGROUNDS.
BIGGEST FRUSTRATION IN THE
ELECTION WAS THAT THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY CAME ACROSS
AS NOT HAVING ANYTHING REALLY TO
SAY ON CLIMATE CHANGE.
YES THERE WAS SOME TALK ABOUT
TECHNOLOGY, BUT LISTEN, A CARBON
TAX ON ITS OWN IS NOT A CLIMATE
PLAN.
SAYING NO TO A CARBON TAX IS
ALSO NO ANSWER.
THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS GOING
ON, AND FRANKLY, STEVEN, I THINK
THERE'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR
THE PRIME MINISTER.
AND I WOULD SAY, JUST TO PEGGY'S
COMMENTS, NATIONAL UNITY IS, IN
FACT, THE PRIME MINISTER'S FIRST
PRIORITY.
HIS FIRST PRIORITY IS THE
NATIONAL INTEREST AND,
THEREFORE, NATIONAL UNITY, AND
IT IS VERY BAD IN THE WEST.

Steve says POLITICAL SCIENTIST, I
GOT A MINUTE LEFT HERE.
LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
GIVEN ANDREW SCHEER'S SITUATION
RIGHT NOW WHERE THE
CONSERVATIVES ARE IN SOME WAYS
GOING TO BE LOOKING A LOT INWARD
OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS AS HE
WORKS TOWARDS HIS LEADERSHIP
REVIEW IN APRIL, ARE THE REAL
LEADERS OF THE OPPOSITION IN
THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW THE
PREMIERS OF ALBERTA AND ONTARIO?

The caption changes to "Peter Loewen. Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy."

Peter Loewen is in his late forties, with short gray hair and a boxed beard. He's wearing a gray suit and shirt, and an orange tie.

He says I MEAN, WELL, THOSE ARE TWO
DIFFERENT...

Steve says MAYBE SASKATCHEWAN
TOO.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Peter Loewen says THOSE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT
PEOPLE.
I THINK DOUG FORD IS TRYING TO
FIND A WAY TO BE A CONSTRUCTIVE
NATIONAL LEADER.
I DON'T GET THAT ABOUT PREMIER
KENNEY, TO BE FRANK.
IF I WERE... HERE'S A PIECE OF
ADVICE YOU RARELY GIVE.
IF I WERE MR. SCHEER, I WOULD BE
LOOKING TO MICHAEL IGNATIEFF IN
2008.
JUST BEFORE... JUST AFTER HE WON
THE LEADERSHIP, TO SEE HOW HE
NEGOTIATED WITH THE CONSERVATIVE
PARTY TO GET SOME THINGS HE
WANTED ON THE BUDGET.
HE WAS EFFECTIVE IN THAT.
IT WON HIM SOME PLAUDITS.
DIDN'T WORK IN THE NEXT
ELECTION, BUT IT WORKED AS THE
LEADER OF THE OFFICIAL
OPPOSITION IN EXTRACTING PRETTY
GOOD CONCESSIONS FROM THE PRIME
MINISTER.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with different guests.
A caption reads "Post-legalization pot losses. Worst weed rollout?"

Steve says HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO
LOSE MONEY DOING THIS?

The caption changes to "Vanmala Subramaniam. Financial Post. @vanmalas."

Vanmala is in her thirties, with long straight black hair. She's wearing a dark green blazer.

She says THAT'S A REALLY GOOD
QUESTION.
SO YOU KNOW, PART OF THE ANSWER
IS WHAT JAY ALLUDED TO.
IN 2018 WE HAD A GOVERNMENT
CHANGE AND THE ONTARIO CANNABIS
RETAIL CORPORATION HAD ALREADY
SIGNED ALL THESE LEASES AND PUT
IN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HAD ALL
THESE OVERHEAD COSTS OF STORES
THEY THOUGHT THE PROVINCES WERE
GOING TO RUN.
AND THAT DIDN'T END UP HAPPENING
BECAUSE THE FORD GOVERNMENT
MOVED TOWARD THE PRIVATE RETAIL
MODEL.
SO IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE
BREAKDOWN OF HOW THAT 42
MILLION dollar LOSS CAME ABOUT, REVENUE
WAS 63 MILLION.
THEY DID MAKE MONEY, BUT THE
GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES
WAS SO HIGH THAT, YOU KNOW, TO
SOME EXTENT THAT ADDED UP TO THE
LOSS.
SO THEY ARE SAYING IT'S A LOSS
BECAUSE OF START-UP COSTS AND
THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE MODEL.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S YET TO REMAIN
AND WE SHOULD LOOK AT THE DATA
IN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS AS TO
HOW THE PERFORMANCE OF THESE
STORES HAVE BEEN GOING, BECAUSE
REALLY AS PAMELA POINTED OUT, I
THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE PREFER
COMING INTO STORES AND BUYING
THEIR CANNABIS THAT WAY INSTEAD
OF BUYING IT ON-LINE, AND RIGHT
NOW THE PROVINCE GETS THEIR
MONEY FROM THE WEBSITE.
THEY DON'T HAVE ANY PHYSICAL
RETAIL STORES, RIGHT?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Steve says 42 MILLION dollars LOST.

Vanmala says YES.
YES, AND ACTUALLY, STEVE, THE
NEW... THE CANNABIS NEW
BRUNSWICK, THE PROVINCIALLY RUN
STORE, ON-LINE STORE IN NEW
BRUNSWICK, SHUT DOWN
ALL-TOGETHER BECAUSE THE MODEL
WASN'T MAKING SENSE AND THEY
WEREN'T MAKING MONEY.
THERE'S A PRECEDENT THAT ONE
OF... YOU KNOW, A SIMILAR MODEL
FAILED.
IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENS HERE.

Steve says I DON'T WANT TO BE
UNUSUALLY HARSH ON THEM, THEY
DECIDED TO GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE,
BUT JAY DO YOU THINK THERE IS
A... IS THERE A REASONABLE
LOGICAL EXCUSE OR EXPLANATION
FOR LOSING THAT MUCH MONEY?

The caption changes to "Jay Rosenthal. Business of Cannabis. @jaymrosenthal."

Jay is in his late thirties, with curly brown hair and a prominent full beard. He's wearing rounded glasses, a gray suit and a blue shirt.

He says I THINK SO.
I MEAN, NOT TO BE FLIP, BUT I
THINK SO.
I MEAN, YOU HAVE BASICALLY THE
NUMBERS THAT YOU REFLECT THAT
42 MILLION dollars INCLUDES ZERO OF THE
SALES AT BRICKS AND MORTAR
RETAIL.
IT ONLY GOES THROUGH THE END OF
MARCH 2019.
SO THE IDEA THAT YOU HAD ALL THE
START-UP COSTS AND BASICALLY
NONE OF THE BENEFIT OF ACTUALLY
SELLING LOTS OF CANNABIS WOULD
EQUAL A 42 MILLION dollar LOSS, AND
IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE IF YOU
ZOOM OUT A BIT, NO STATE, NO
COUNTRY, INCLUDING CANADA AND
INCLUDING SORT OF THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO, HAS DONE THIS
FLAWLESSLY.
MY MOTHER JUST SENT ME AN EMAIL
THAT SAID AFTER YEAR ONE IN
MASSACHUSETTS, LOTS OF
COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW CANNABIS IS
ROLLED OUT.
THIS IS NOT NEW.
THIS IS A DIFFICULT THING TO GET
RIGHT, BECAUSE UNLIKE ALCOHOL
WHICH HAS A 100-YEAR HISTORY, WE
KNOW HOW MUCH ALCOHOL BY THE DAY
IS GOING TO BE BOUGHT BY WHOM
AND WHERE.
WE KNOW NONE OF THAT FOR
CANNABIS, AND UNTIL AND UNLESS
WE START TO BUILD A DATABASE
ABOUT HOW LONG AND HOW MUCH AND
WHAT TYPES OF PRODUCT PEOPLE
WANT TO BUY, WE'RE REALLY JUST
SORT OF FLYING BLIND AND WHAT
YOU SEE IS FLYING BLIND FOR A
YEAR.
FLYING BLIND YEAR TWO YOU START
TO BE ABLE TO SEE A FEW THINGS
COMING DOWN THE PIKE.
YOU START TO OPEN MORE RETAIL
STORES AND LEARN A LOT MORE, AND
SO I THINK YEAR TWO WILL GO A
LOT SMOOTHER THAN YEAR ONE.
YEAR THREE WILL BE BETTER THAN
YEAR TWO.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."
The caption changes to "Pamela Jeffery. Ontario Cannabis Policy Council. @Pamela_Jeffery."

Pamela is in her late fifties, with wavy gray hair. She's wearing a black blazer and a printed scarf.

She says AND WHAT'S SO INTERESTING IN
CANADA IS WE HAVE DIFFERENT
RULES BY PROVINCE, AND SO WE'VE
GOT SOME GREAT LESSONS LEARNED
FROM SASKATCHEWAN AND MANITOBA,
FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE YOU HAVE
STRONG GOVERNMENT REGULATORY
OVERSIGHT WITH THE PRIVATE
SECTOR ABLE TO DELIVER PRODUCT
AND DO SO IN A CONVENIENT WAY
FOR THE CUSTOMER, AND I THINK
THAT THAT MODEL IS ONE WHERE
WE'VE HAD A LESSON THAT WE CAN
APPLY TO THE REST OF THE
COUNTRY.

Steve says BRUCE, HOW WOULD YOU
SORT OF UN... ALL RIGHT, YOU
WANTED TO MAKE A POINT.
GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Bruce Linton. Canopy Growth Corporation Founder."

Bruce is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair. He's wearing a blue plaid coat and a black t-shirt.

He says WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY,
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS OF
STORES AND MODELS OF OWNERSHIP,
BUT MAYBE FOR TEXTURE, FOR THE
AUDIENCE, MY MOST INTERESTING
EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN TO GO TO A
STORE, SAY, IN NOVA SCOTIA,
WHERE IT'S A STORE IN STORE.
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, YOU WALK IN
THE STORE AND IT USED TO BE A
LIQUOR STORE, IT STILL IS.
IN THE BACK THEY HAVE A CARVED
OUT AREA WITH CASHIERS AND ALSO
A CANNABIS STORE.
SO IF YOU WANT YOU CAN PICK UP
YOUR BOTTLE OF WINE, WALK TO THE
BACK AND GET CANNABIS AND PAY
BOTH AT THE SAME PLACE.
YOU CAN'T PAY FOR IT AT THE
FRONT.
APPARENTLY THE CANNABIS MIGHT
GET IN YOUR POCKET OR SOMETHING.
THE BUSY CASH REGISTERS WERE AT
THE BACK AND THE NOT BUSY ONES
WERE THE LIQUOR ONLY ONES AT THE
FRONT.
COMPARE THAT TO NEWFOUNDLAND
WHERE THEY HAVE A MIX OF PRIVATE
AND PUBLIC SECTOR AND THEY HAVE
SOME OF THESE STORES NOW WHICH
ARE KIND OF THE... I'LL CALL IT
THE QUICK SERVICE.
IT'S A GAS STATION WHICH HAS
CANNABIS SHOP AND HAS A SMALL
LIQUOR BEER AREA, AND THEN ALL
THE OTHER STUFF.
THAT STARTS TO ME TO FORESHADOW
THERE'S A BUNCH OF WAYS THIS
COULD WORK AND WE COULD START TO
HAVE DATA THAT SHOWS
SUBSTITUTION EFFECT.
IF YOU HAVE A GREAT BEVERAGE
OFFERING THAT'S MADE WITH
CANNABIS RATHER THAN ALCOHOL AND
YOU ONLY HAVE TO PARK YOUR CAR
ONCE AND GO TO THAT ONE STORE,
WHAT WILL THE IMPACT BE THERE.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Bruce continues STORES AREN'T THE SAME DESPITE
HAVING DIFFERENT MODELS.
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT RULES OF
WHAT YOU CAN DO IN THE PROVINCE.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with a male guest.

A caption on screen reads "Steering Ontario's Justice System. Appointing judges."

Steve says WHO DO YOU WANT IN THE
PIPELINE THAT'S NOW NOT IN THE
PIPELINE OF POTENTIAL JUDGES?

The caption changes to "Doug Downey. PC MPP, Barrie-Springwater-Oro-Medonte."

Downey is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and striped blue tie.

He says PART OF MY CHALLENGE IS I
HAVE NO IDEA WHO'S IN THE
PIPELINE BECAUSE I CAN'T TELL
YOU IF THERE'S DIVERSITY
APPLYING TO THE BENCH.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE THE
RIGHT CANDIDATES APPLYING,
BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANY LINE OF
SIGHT TO ANYTHING EXCEPT TWO
NAMES AT A TIME.

Steve says I DON'T KNOW IF YOU
SAW THIS QUOTE, SO I'M GOING TO
READ IT TO YOU NOW.
PETER RUSSELL, UNIVERSITY OF
TORONTO POLITICAL SCIENTIST,
PROFESSOR OF LONG-STANDING AND
HIGH REPUTATION.
SAYS, YOU KNOW, HELPED DESIGN
THE CURRENT SYSTEM, SAYS THE
PROCESS IS MEANT TO PREVENT THE
POLITICIZATION OF JUDGES AND HE
SAYS YOUR PROPOSALS WOULD DO THE
OPPOSITE.
HIS RESPONSE TO YOUR PROPOSAL
WAS THAT'S BAD NEWS.
THEY WANT A BUNCH OF NAMES SO
THEY CAN LOOK DOWN AND FIND A
NICE SOULMATE TORY.

Downey says YOU KNOW, AND HE IS SO
RESPECTED, AND I TALKED TO
FORMER ATTORNEYS GENERAL AND
I'VE TALKED TO BOTH FEDERAL AND
PROVINCIAL.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO PARTS TO
THE APPOINTMENT OF JUDGES.
ONE IS TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY'RE
QUALIFIED OR NOT QUALIFIED.
AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.
BUT THE SECOND PART IS FOR ME TO
PICK PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW,
REFLECT SOME OF THE VALUES THAT
I HAVE, AND I WANT TO PUT SOME
OF THOSE IN THE REGULATIONS SO
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.
YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDING VICTIMS
ISSUES, MAKING SURE THAT THEY
HAVE COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP,
MAKING SURE THAT THOSE PIECES
ARE THERE, AND SOMETIMES ONLY I
CAN ASSESS THAT.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY AS ATTORNEY
GENERAL I'M ALLOWED TO DO A TON
OF THINGS BUT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO
PICK FROM A BIGGER POOL OF
PEOPLE WHO A THIRD-PARTY
COMMITTEE SAY ARE QUALIFIED.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says OKAY, FOLLOW-UP
QUESTION: DO YOU INTEND TO
CONSULT THE LEGAL PROFESSION ON
THE CHANGES YOU INTEND TO MAKE
TO YOUR SELECTION PROCESS?

Downey says ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, I'M FROM THE LEGAL
PROFESSION.
I SPENT YEARS ON THE EXECUTIVE
OF THE OBA, SOME OTHER GROUPS
WERE IN TOUCH WITH ME AND WE'RE
GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH THEM AND
HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.
ONES BEYOND WHAT I'VE ALREADY
TALKED TO.

Steve says OBA, ONTARIO BAR
ASSOCIATION.

The caption changes to "Doug Downey. Attorney General of Ontario."

Downey says YES, THE ONTARIO FEDERATION
OF LAW ASSOCIATIONS, THE LAW
SOCIETY, TORONTO LAWYERS
ASSOCIATION, CABLE, ALL SORTS OF
DIFFERENT GROUPS.

Steve says WHAT ABOUT THE JUDGES
THEMSELVES?
LIKE, WOULD YOU CONSULT WITH THE
CHIEF JUSTICE OF ONTARIO ON
THIS?

The caption changes to "Doug Downey, @douglasdowney."

Downey says I ABSOLUTELY HAVE SEVERAL
TIMES, AND MY STAFF HAVE DONE
BRIEFINGS.
I DON'T WANT TO GIVE THE CONTENT
OF THE DISCUSSION, BUT I HAD A
MEETING WITH THE ONTARIO CHIEF
JUSTICE MONDAY MORNING AND THEN
TUESDAY AFTERNOON I HAD A
MEETING WITH THREE OTHER CHIEF
JUSTICES AT THE SAME TIME.

Steve says OKAY, ONE LAST THING
ON THIS.
ALL RIGHT, WE ALL REMEMBER
PRETTY WELL WHEN PREMIER FORD
DECIDED HE WANTED TO CUT TORONTO
CITY COUNCIL IN HALF AND HE GOT
A DECISION FROM A JUDGE THAT HE
DIDN'T LIKE AND HE SAID I'M
GOING TO USE THE NOTWITHSTANDING
CLAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION TO
OVERRIDE THIS UNELECTED JUDGE'S
DECISIONS BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE
THEM.
THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF
CONTROVERSY ABOUT THE FACT THAT
POTENTIALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME
EVER AN ONTARIO GOVERNMENT WOULD
USE THE NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE
TO OVERRIDE CHARTER RIGHTS.
AND NOW THAT YOU'RE THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL AND THE NUMBER ONE LAW
GUY IN THE PROVINCE, I'M KIND OF
CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU THINK
ABOUT THAT APPROACH.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Downey says WELL, I'M ACTUALLY IN HANSARD
ON IT.
I GAVE A BACK AND FORTH WITH
JOHN FRASER WITH THE LIBERALS IN
DISCUSSION, AND BASICALLY IT
BOILS DOWN TO THIS.
THE CHARTER IS A LIVING TREE,
RIGHT?
WE ALL KNOW THE LIVING TREE
DOCTRINE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
CHARTER EVOLVES OVER TIME.
SECTION 33 IS IN THE CHARTER.
SO IT DOESN'T STAND ALONE.
AND I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE TO
LOOK AT EVERY SITUATION UNIQUELY.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A guest speaks on the show.
A caption reads "Why conservatives and liberals think differently. How threatening is the world?"
Then, it changes to "Robb Willer. Stanford University."

Robb is in his early forties, with short brown hair and a stubble. He's wearing a gray suit and a gray shirt.

He says IF YOU GO ON OKCUPID, THIS
AMERICAN DATING SITE, OR FOR ALL
I KNOW IT'S BEYOND AMERICA,
THE QUESTION ON OKCUPID THAT
CORRELATES THE BEST WITH SOCIAL
LIBERALISM VERSUS CONSERVATISM
IS DO YOU PREFER SPENDING TIME
WITH SIMPLE OR COMPLEX PEOPLE.
AND SO LIBERALS, AS YOU MIGHT BE
ABLE TO GUESS, ARE MORE LIKELY
TO SAY COMPLEX PEOPLE AND
CONSERVATIVES ARE MORE LIKELY TO
SAY SIMPLE PEOPLE.
AND ONE THING I LIKE ABOUT THAT
STATISTIC IS IT GIVES YOU A
SENSE OF BOTH SIDES' PERSPECTIVE
ON THAT.
SO I'M THE SORT OF PERSON THAT
WOULD HAVE ANSWERED THAT IN THE
LIBERAL WAY, I SUPPOSE, DATING
COMPLEX PEOPLE, BUT I CAN
COMPLETELY SEE THE CONSERVATIVE
SIDE ON THIS, BECAUSE DATING
COMPLEX PEOPLE IS A REAL PAIN IN
THE BUTT.

[Steve laughs.]

Robb continues SO IT'S ACTUALLY... THESE ARE
VERY SYMPATHETIC PERSPECTIVES,
UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT PRETTY
FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES.

Steve says AND JUST TO BE CLEAR,
WE'RE NOT MAKING A VALUE
JUDGMENT ABOUT WHICH IS BETTER.
WE'RE JUST POINTING OUT THEY'RE
DIFFERENT, RIGHT?

Robb says THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH. YEAH, IN
THIS RESPECT ESPECIALLY.

Steve says GOTCHA.
HOW DO THESE SHOW UP IN AREAS OF
LIFE THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO
WITH POLITICS?

The caption changes to "Becky Choma. Ryerson University."

Becky is in her thirties, with shoulder-length blond hair. She's wearing a black sweater.

She says THEY CAN SHOW UP IN TERMS OF
MUSIC PREFERENCES, SOMETIMES
WITH HOW PEOPLE DRESS,
ACTIVITIES, MOVIES THAT YOU
LIKE.
THERE WAS A STUDY SEVERAL YEARS
AGO THAT WENT INTO COLLEGE
STUDENTS' DORMS AND THEY COULD
TELL BY KIND OF THE THINGS THAT
WERE AROUND THEIR ROOM WHAT
THEIR POLITICAL ORIENTATION WAS,
BASED ON THE NOVELS THEY MIGHT
BE READING AND THINGS LIKE MUSIC
PREFERENCES.

Steve says NEAT.
PAUL, WHO SEES THE WORLD AS A
MORE THREATENING PLACE,
CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS?

The caption changes to "Paul Bloom. Yale University."

Paul is in his forties, with short blond hair and a stubble. He's wearing a gray suit and a black shirt.

He says SO THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE
SUGGESTING THAT CONSERVATIVES...
MAYBE THIS IS SURPRISING... ARE
MORE SENSITIVE TO THREAT.
THEY'RE MORE EASILY DISGUSTED,
THEY'RE MORE AROUSED
PSYCHOLOGICALLY NEURALLY TO
THREATENING IMAGES.
AND THESE ARE NOT ENORMOUS
DIFFERENCES.
ALL THE DIFFERENCES WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT ARE FAIRLY SUBTLE,
BUT IF YOU TEST ENOUGH SUBJECTS
YOU SEE CLEAR DIFFERENCES IN
SENSITIVITY TO THREAT AND A LOT
OF PEOPLE HAVE ARGUED THAT THIS
CONNECTS TO THEIR POLITICAL
VIEWS.
IF YOU'RE VERY SENSITIVE TO
THREAT, YOU MIGHT STAY WITH THE
STATUS QUO, LEAVING THINGS THE
WAY THEY ARE.
IF YOU'RE LESS SENSITIVE TO
THREAT, YOU'RE MORE WILLING TO
BEING OPEN TO TRY NEW THINGS.
AS YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, THESE
ARE BOTH GOOD TRAITS TO HAVE.
YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TOTE LOCKED
INTO THE STATUS QUO, BUT THEY
ARE ON BALANCE, AND
CONSERVATIVES HAVE MORE THREAT
SENSITIVITY THAN THE LIBERALS.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says IT WILL NOT COME AS A
SURPRISE TO OUR VIEWERS AND
LISTENERS THEN THAT 9-11 WAS A
SIGNIFICANT EVENT IN TERMS OF
MAKING PEOPLE MORE CONSERVATIVE.
THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY THE BIGGEST
THREAT OF OUR LIFETIME ON THE
NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT, AND
LET ME READ SOMETHING HERE THAT
YALE UNIVERSITIES JOHN BARGH
WROTE IN THE WASHINGTON POST.
DO YOU KNOW HIM?

Paul says MY COLLEAGUE AND MY FRIEND.

Steve says AM I SAYING HIS LAST
NAME RIGHT?

Paul says BARGE.

Steve says BARGE, THANK YOU.
HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "How safe do you feel?" The quote reads "The boiling water of our social and political attitudes, it seems, can be turned up or down by changing how physically safe we feel."
Quoted from John Bargh, The Washington Post. November 22, 2017.

Steve says IF THE WORLD FEELS
MORE THREATENING OR UNCERTAIN,
DO PEOPLE BECOME MORE
CONSERVATIVE POLITICALLY?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caption changes to "Paul Bloom, @paulbloomatyale."

Paul says I THINK THEY DO.
I THINK THEY DO, AND I ALSO
THINK THIS ILLUSTRATES A POINT
WHICH YOU KEEP COMING BACK TO,
WHICH IS THAT IT'S NOT A
CONSERVATIVES ARE ALWAYS ONE WAY
AND LIBERALS ARE THE OTHER WAY.
THERE ARE SOME AVENUES WHERE
LIBERALS WHERE THEY ARE QUITE
SENSITIVE TO THREAT.
I'M NOT SURE HOW THIS EXTENDS TO
CANADA, BUT IN THE UNITED STATES
IN UNIVERSITIES THERE'S A LOT OF
TALK ABOUT SAFE SPACES,
MICROAGGRESSIONS, TRIGGER
WARNINGS WHERE STUDENTS ARE
EXQUISITELY CONCERNED ABOUT
THREATS TO ETHNIC MINORITIES AND
SEXUAL MINORITIES.
AND THESE ARE LIBERALS.

Steve says THAT IS A FEATURE OF
THE CANADIAN POST-SECONDARY
CAMPUS AS WELL, OF COURSE.

says AND SO ANYBODY WHO SAYS ONLY
CONSERVATIVES CARE ABOUT THREAT
HAS TO BEAR THAT IN MIND.

Steve says BECKY, IS IT ALSO
TRUE, THE COROLLARY, WHICH IS IF
YOU'RE IN BOOM TIMES AND TIMES
ARE GOOD ARE MORE PEOPLE LIKELY
TO LEAN LIBERAL?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Becky says THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE TO THAT.
I ALSO WANT TO SPEAK TO THE 9-11
ISSUE.
SO I AGREE THAT THE THREAT IS
NUANCED IN TERMS OF THAT
LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES HAVE
DIFFERENT TYPES OF THREATS THEY
MAY RESPOND TO.
WITH 9-11 SPECIFICALLY THERE'S
LOTS OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT
AFTER THAT EVENT PEOPLE IN
PARTICULAR THAT FELT INSECURE OR
ANXIOUS ABOUT THAT EVENT TENDED
TO KIND OF HAVE THIS
CONSERVATIVE SHIFT.
FOR INSTANCE, WE SAW A RISE IN
PEOPLE BEING MORE COMFORTABLE
AND SUPPORTIVE WITH RESTRICTING
CIVIL LIBERTIES, SO THAT'S ONE
EXAMPLE OF HOW PEOPLE KIND OF
MOVED TO THE RIGHT, WHICH YOU
CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE WOULD
HAVE THAT SORT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL
REACTION WHEN THEY FEEL
THREATENED OR INSECURE.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Nam sits in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a black blazer over a pink shirt.

A caption on screen reads "Taking on the Catholic Church. A story years in the making."

Nam says THERE'S A SCENE IN THE FILM,
ROD, WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE
SCHOOL WHERE ARE THE... TAUGHT
YOU, WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO WALK
THROUGH THAT HALLWAY AGAIN?

The caption changes to "Rod Macleod. Plaintiff."

Rod is in his sixties, with wavy gray hair and a mustache. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and printed blue tie.

As Rod speaks, footage from the documentary "Prey" shows a staircase to a school, then a man sitting inside a car and looking out the window.

Rod says WELL, IT WASN'T THE HALLWAY
SO MUCH, BUT IT WAS THE
STAIRCASES, BECAUSE THE
STAIRCASES WERE EXACTLY THE SAME
AS WHEN I WAS AT SCHOOL.
THE SAME TILES, THE SAME
WINDOWS, THE SAME MEZZANINE TYPE
STAIRS, YOU KNOW.
EVERYTHING WAS EXACTLY THE SAME,

In an old, grainy picture, a group of boys walks out of the school.

Rod continues SO THAT BROUGHT ME RIGHT BACK TO
BEING BACK AT SCHOOL, NO
QUESTION.
AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT YOU
GO INTO THAT SAME MENTAL STATE
YOU HAD WHEN YOU WERE AT SCHOOL,
AND FOR ME IT WAS ALWAYS BEING
IN A POSITION WHERE I'M THINKING
HOW CAN I GET OUT OF HERE, HOW
CAN I FLEE.
AND SO THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I FELT
WHEN I WAS THERE.

Nam says AND FOR PATRICK IN THIS
FILM YOU... THERE'S A SCENE OF
YOU STANDING IN FRONT OF THE
CHURCH AND YOU'RE HOLDING A
SIGN.

Patrick says YES.

Nam says WHAT'S ON THE SIGN?

The caption changes to "Patrick McMahon. First Complainant."

Patrick is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a gray pinstripe suit, blue shirt, and striped gray tie.

He says UMM, IT WAS A QUOTE FROM POPE
FRANCIS WHERE HE WAS RECENTLY
SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT
CLERICAL SEXUAL ABUSE AND THEN
ADD MY OWN QUOTE BELOW IT.
SO IT WAS... I KIND OF TRIED TO
CONNECT THE TWO.
SO TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE AS WE'RE
SEEING IT TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS
WHAT THE POPE IS DIRECTING US AS
GOOD CATHOLICS TO DO, TO EMBRACE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED FROM
THIS AND THEN I HAD MY QUOTE
KIND OF INVITING THEM TO DO SO.
AND YET, IT DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE
MUCH IMPACT ON MOST PEOPLE.

Nam says WELL, EVEN PUTTING
YOURSELF OUT THERE IN THAT
VISIBLE SPOT, HOLDING THE SIGN,
WAS A VERY VULNERABLE POSITION
FOR YOU TO BE IN.
WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO DO THAT?
WHAT WAS YOUR HOPE IN DOING
THAT?

In the clip, Patrick stands outside the school staircase holding up the sign. It reads "No effort to beg pardon and to seek to repair the harm done will ever be sufficient. Pope Francis."
Below the quote, another text in all caps reads "SO WHY ARE YOUR (TAX-DEDUCTIBLE) DONATIONS GIVEN TO LAWYERS WHO FIGHT AGAINST VICTIMS LIKE ME?"

Patrick says I THINK ONE THING PEOPLE
DON'T REALIZE WHEN THEY SEE
STORIES OR READ STORIES ABOUT
VICTIMS OF CLERICAL SEXUAL ABUSE
IS THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY
SOME STRANGER.
IT COULD BE THE PERSON IN LINE
AT THE STORE NEXT TO YOU.
IT COULD BE YOUR OWN BROTHER OR
SISTER.
IT COULD BE YOUR SPOUSE.
AND YOU MAY NOT KNOW, SO WHAT I
WANTED TO DO WAS PUT A FACE TO
THE STORY FOR PEOPLE AND ALLOW
THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY TO
INTERACT.
IT'S MUCH MORE POWERFUL TO STAND
BESIDE SOMEONE AND SAY "TELL ME
YOUR STORY" THAN TO JUST TURN ON
THE TELEVISION OR PICK UP A
NEWSPAPER AND READ ABOUT SOME
STRANGER'S STORY.

The caption changes to "On the path toward healing."
Then, it changes again to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Nam says WELL, YOU'VE WATCHED THE
DOCUMENTARY NOW A FEW TIMES AT
DIFFERENT FESTIVALS.
AND YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO SEE THE
REACTION FROM THE CROWD.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU TO BE
IN THOSE AUDIENCES AND TO SEE
THE REACTION, ROD?

The caption changes to "Rod Macleod. Abuse victim."

Rod says WELL, YOU KNOW, ROB WAS
TALKING ABOUT CATHARTIC EFFECT,
AND THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE
CATHARTIC EFFECT FOR ME HAS
COME, BECAUSE AS I SAY, I ALWAYS
BELIEVED THAT I WAS THE ONLY
ONE, AND EVERY TIME WE HAVE ONE
OF THESE SHOWINGS, THE... AFTER
THE SHOWING, AFTER THE QUESTION
PERIOD, PEOPLE COME UP TO ME AND
SHARE THEIR STORY OF SEXUAL
ABUSE, AND SO IT'S JUST SO
WIDESPREAD IN THIS SOCIETY.
IT'S JUST... IT'S UNBELIEVABLE,
AND IT'S NOT UNBELIEVABLE IF YOU
THINK OF, WELL, WHEN SOMETHING
LIKE THIS HAPPENS, THERE'S A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF SHAME
ASSOCIATED WITH THE VICTIM, AND
THAT'S NOT WHERE THE SHAME
SHOULD BE.
IT SHOULD BE WITH THE PREDATOR.
BUT IN OUR SOCIETY, THAT'S HOW
IT SETTLES, AND SO PEOPLE ARE
VERY... FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT
TO COME FORWARD AND TO SPEAK
ABOUT IT.

Nam says WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S SO
LOPSIDED?
WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S THE
VICTIMS WHO FEEL THE SHAME AND
THEN THE OTHERS DON'T?

Rod says WELL, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE
POWER IMBALANCE, YOU KNOW.
THE VICTIMS ARE CHILDREN, SO
THEY DON'T HAVE MUCH POWER, AND
THE PERPETRATORS ARE ALWAYS
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN POSITIONS OF
AUTHORITY, AND SO THEY ARE THE
ONES WHO ARE ABLE TO COMMAND
RESPECT AND ARE ABLE TO SAY, OH,
THAT'S NONSENSE AND ALL THE REST
OF IT.
AND IN MY CASE, AS WITH SO MANY,
WHEN IT'S THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
THAT'S INVOLVED, YOUR WHOLE
FAMILY AND SOCIAL NETWORK HAVE
BEEN INDOCTRINATED WITH THE IDEA
THAT PRIESTS CAN DO NO WRONG,
THAT THEY ARE ABOVE THE NORMAL
PEOPLE.
THEY ARE ANOINTED AND THEY ARE
SPECIAL AND... WELL, WHEN ALL OF
THAT IS ADDED IN, HOW CAN A
CHILD GO AGAINST THAT?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Nam says YOU BLAME YOURSELF?

Rod says EXACTLY.

The clips end and Steve stands in the studio alone.

He says THAT'S JUST SOME OF
WHAT WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON
"THE AGENDA."
FOR MORE, INCLUDING THE FULL
CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN VISIT
OUR WEBSITE, THAT'S AT TVO.ORG,
OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT
YOUTUBE.COM/THEAGENDA
OR OUR TWITTER FEED:
TWITTER.COM/THEAGENDA.

Watch: Confronting the Catholic Church; Minority Government Plans