Transcript: Black Holes Rule! | Jun 03, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Black holes rule! @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says MOST OF US DON'T UNDERSTAND
THEM MUCH BEYOND SCIENCE
FICTION.
BUT WHEN THE FIRST EVER IMAGE OF
A BLACK HOLE HIT THE PRESS
RECENTLY, I BET MOST OF US GOT
MUCH MORE EAGER TO WRAP OUR
HEADS AROUND THESE INTERGALACTIC
PHENOMENA.
AND THAT WAS BEFORE SCIENTISTS
REPORTED THEY'D BEEN ABLE TO
OBSERVE A BLACK HOLE AS IT ATE A
NEUTRON STAR.
HERE TO HELP US GRASP IT ALL...
OR SOME OF IT ANYWAY... WE
WELCOME AVERY BRODERICK,
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE
DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS and
ASTRONOMY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
WATERLOO; AND THE DELANEY FAMILY
WHEELER CHAIR OF THEORETICAL
PHYSICS AT THE PERIMETER INSTITUTE.

Avery is in his late thirties, with long brown hair in a ponytail. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, blue shirt, and striped blue tie.

Steve continues AND SARAH GALLAGHER, ASSOCIATE
PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF
PHYSICS AND ASTRONOMY AT WESTERN
UNIVERSITY, AND THE FIRST
SCIENCE ADVISOR TO THE CANADIAN
SPACE AGENCY.

Sarah is in her forties, with brown hair in a bob. She's wearing a black blazer over a burgundy blouse, and a thin gold necklace.

Steve continues GREETED TO HAVE YOU TWO
BRAINIACS HERE WITH US TONIGHT
ON TVO.

Sarah says NICE TO BE HERE.

Steve says INDEED.
ALL RIGHT, AS WE SHOW THE IMAGE,
SHELDON, BRING IT UP, IF YOU
WOULD, OF THE FIRST BLACK HOLE
THAT WE'VE EVER SEEN, LET'S GET
INTO THIS.
AVERY, WHAT IS A BLACK HOLE?

A picture appears on screen of an orange and yellow ring against a black backdrop. The ring is wider and brighter in the bottom half.

Avery says A BLACK HOLE IS GRAVITY RUN
AMOK, STEVE.
IT'S MATTER THAT HAS FALLEN IN
THE PAST AND LEFT BEHIND THIS
SPECIAL STRUCTURE IN GENERAL
RELATIVELY IN WHICH THINGS GO IN
AND THEY NEVER COME BACK OUT.
THE ULTIMATE TRAP.

Steve says WHERE IS THAT THING WE
JUST SAW?

An animation shows a starry night sky with constellations Virgo and Leo marked in blue lines. Then, the animation homes in on a section of the Virgo constellation.

Avery says WELL, THANKFULLY THAT'S 55
MILLION LIGHT YEARS AWAY, SO WE
DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT ANY
TIME SOON.
VIRGOIT LIVES AT THE CENTRE OF A
CLUSTER OF GALAXIES, A VIRGO
CLUSTER, MORE THAN 2,000
GALAXIES WHIZZING ABOUT, AND
IT'S IN FACT IN ONE OF THOSE
GALAXIES, M87.

Steve says HOW BIG IS IT?

Avery says SIX AND A HALF BILLION TIMES
THE MASS OF THE SUN.
SO IT'S NOT JUST THE SIZE OF OUR
SOLAR SYSTEM, BUT OUR SOLAR
SYSTEM, ITS 6.5 BILLION FRIENDS.

Steve says THAT'S ALMOST
INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO AN AVERAGE
PERSON LIKE ME.
NOW YOU'RE TRAINED IN THIS.
IS THAT COMPREHENSIBLE
TO YOU?

The caption changes to "Sarah Gallagher. Western University."
Then, it changes again to "The vast doughnut in space."

Sarah says I WOULD SAY IT'S
COMPREHENSIBLE, BUT STILL QUITE
IMPRESSIVE.
THAT'S A BIG BLACK HOLE.
EVEN... I MEAN, I DO
SUPER-MASSIVE BLACK HOLES, AND
THAT'S AN IMPRESSIVE ONE.

Steve says IS THAT WHAT YOU
IMAGINED IT WOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN
YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN PAST?

Sarah says UMM, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YEAH, IT WAS... I WOULD SAY IT
WAS REALLY BEAUTIFUL BUT NOT
REALLY SURPRISING.
SO AS SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT A PART
OF THE PROJECT BUT WORKS IN THIS
FIELD, I MEAN, I WAS JUST... I
WAS SO EXCITED AND JUST REALLY
EMOTIONAL BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A
LOT OF WORK BY A LOT OF PEOPLE,
AND IT'S SUCH AN IMPRESSIVE
ENDEAVOUR, AND THEY DID IT.
I MEAN, I'M JUST SO HAPPY FOR
YOU.
IT'S FANTASTIC.

Steve says LET'S DO ANOTHER IMAGE
HERE.
WE'RE GOING TO SHOW ANOTHER
IMAGE OF A BLACK HOLE SHOWING
HOW MASSIVE THE BLACK HOLE IS IN
COMPARISON WITH OUR SOLAR
SYSTEM.
DID YOU KNOW, AVERY, ALLOW BIG
THIS BLACK HOLE WAS BEFORE
SEEING THIS IMAGE?

A close-up of the black hole appears on screen, with a diagram in the middle showing the size of our solar system. In comparison, the Sun is minuscule and the orbit of Pluto is insignificant.

The caption changes to "Avery Broderick. University of Waterloo. Perimeter Institute."

Avery says WELL, I THINK WE HAD A LOT OF
GOOD IDEA.
SO THERE HAD BEEN ATTEMPTS TO
MEASURE THE MASS IN TERMS OF THE
THERMAL DYNAMICS ARE MUCH
FURTHER AWAY.
WE'RE LOOKING AT LIGHT THAT HAS
BENT AROUND VERY NEAR THE
HORIZON, WHAT WE CALL THE PHOTON
ORBIT.
IT'S THE POINT IN THE SPACE
TIME.
IT'S THE POINT NEAR THE BLACK
HOLE WHERE PHOTONS WOULD BEND
AROUND AND IF YOU SHINED A LIGHT
FORWARD YOU COULD TURN AROUND
AND SEE THAT THING, LIGHT COMING
ON THE OTHER SIDE.
THAT'S RIGHT DOWN NEAR THE BLACK
HOLE.
YOU GO OUT 20 TIMES THE
DISTANCES BETWEEN STARS, THEN
THAT'S ABOUT WHERE THE DYNAMICS
OF THE MATERIAL HAD BEEN
PREVIOUSLY STUDIED TO TRY TO GET
A MASS.
AND THAT MATCHED UP, ACTUALLY.
THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY I THINK
SUCCESSES OF THIS PROJECT, THUS
FAR, IS THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO
DEMONSTRATE THAT EINSTEIN'S
THEORY OF GRAVITY, GENERAL
RELATIVELY, PREDICTS THE
DYNAMICS OF THOSE STARS OUT AT
60 LIGHT YEARS, AND THE DYNAMICS
OF THOSE PROTONS ORBITING AROUND
IN THIS EXTREME ORBIT JUST
BEYOND THE HORIZON, AND THAT
IN-BETWEEN ALL THE INTERVENING
PHENOMENON ARE ALL DESCRIBED BY
THIS ONE THEORY.

Steve says AS YOU POINT OUT,
THAT'S OUR GALAXY.
WE ARE IN THE MILKY WAY GALAXY.
DO WE HAVE ANY BLACK HOLES IN
OUR GALAXY?

Avery says WE DO.

Steve says NOT THAT BIG, I TRUST.

Avery says NOT THAT MONSTER.
AT THE ONE OF THESE OBJECTS THAT
MEASURES IN MILLIONS TO BILLIONS
OF SOLAR MASSES.
BUT THERE ARE GALAXIES ALSO
FILLED WITH THE REMNANTS OF DEAD
STARS, STARS THAT ARE 30 SOLAR
MASSES, END THEIR LIFE PRODUCING
A BIG BLACK HOLE.
USUALLY AROUND 10 SOLAR MASSES.
AND THERE CAN BE A MILLION OF
THOSE IN OUR GALAXY ALONE.

Steve says OKAY, WHAT ARE WE
SEEING HERE?

The picture reappears.

Avery says SO WE'RE SEEING THE EMISSION
FROM THE FOOTPRINTS OF
ASTROPHYSICAL JETS.
SO I SAID AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW
THAT BLACK HOLES ARE THE PERFECT
TRAP, THINGS INTO WHICH STUFF
GOES AND NEVER RETURNS, AND
THAT'S KIND OF THE POPULAR
PICTURE OF BLACK HOLES, AND IT'S
EXACTLY RIGHT.
AND YET, FROM BLACK HOLES LAUNCH
OUTFLOW... SOME.
THINGS MOVING OUTWARD.

As Avery speaks, an animation shows a mass spinning in space in hues of red and orange on the outskirts and yellow and white in the centre, from which light is emitted perpendicular to the orbit of the hole.

Avery continues NOT ONLY ARE THEY MOVING THE
WRONG WAY, BUT THEY MOVE AT NEAR
LIGHT SPEED.
AND IT'S THROUGH THE OUTFLOWS
THAT THE CENTRES SUPER-MASSIVE
BLACK HOLES EFFECT AND CONTROL,
RULE THE FATE OF THE GALAXIES
AROUND THEM.
AND IT'S A PROCESS CALLED
FEEDBACK IN WHICH BLACK HOLES
WRITE THEIR STORY OUT UPON THE
UNIVERSE, AND IN FACT CHANGE HOW
THE NIGHT SKY LOOKS.
IT'S BEEN ONE OF THE AMAZING
REALIZATIONS, I THINK VERY
SURPRISING REALIZATION OVER THE
PAST 20, 30 YEARS, THAT BLACK
HOLES ARE NOT INCIDENTAL.
THEY ARE NOT JUST THIS BEASTLY
MONSTER AT THE CENTRE OF A
GALAXY ALONE BY ITSELF BUT IN
FACT ARE CONTROLLING HOW
GALAXIES APPEAR.
AND WE'RE LOOKING AT THE
FOOTPRINT, THE LAUNCHPOINT OF
THIS OUTFLOW WITH SUCH COSMIC
IMPORTANCE.
THIS IS SWIRLING GAS ORBITING
AROUND AT NEAR LIGHT SPEED,
FLOWING OUTWARD, AND THAT'S WHAT
MAKES THIS IMAGE.
AND THERE'S A SHADOW IN THE
CENTRE.
THIS IS THIS DARK CENTRE, THIS
SHADOW, BLACK HOLE, THE DIMPLE
IN THE DOUGHNUT, AS IT WERE,
RIGHT?
THIS IS THE SILHOUETTE OF THE
BLACK HOLE.
THIS IS THE SIGNATURE OF THE
BLACK HOLE, LOOKING EXACTLY LIKE
YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Steve says BUT SARAH, HELP US
UNDERSTAND THIS.
BECAUSE I GATHER THE IMAGE THAT
WE JUST SAW A MOMENT AGO IS NOT
OF THE MOMENT AT WHICH THE IMAGE
WAS TAKEN.
IS THAT RIGHT?

The caption changes to "Sarah Gallagher, @scgQuasar."

Sarah says THAT'S RIGHT.
SO ANY TIME WE LOOK OUT IN
SPACE, WE'RE ALSO LOOKING BACK
IN TIME, AND SO OUR SENSE OF
TELESCOPES THAT LOOK REALLY FAR
AWAY ARE ESSENTIALLY TIME
MACHINES THAT ALLOW US TO LOOK
BACK AT THE UNIVERSE.
BECAUSE M87 IS 55 MILLION LIGHT
YEARS AWAY, THAT MEANS THAT
LIGHT LEFT THAT BLACK HOLE 55
MILLION YEARS AGO AND IT'S BEEN
TRAVELLING SINCE THEN TO OUR
TELESCOPES WHERE WE CAN OBSERVE
IT.
BUT 55 MILLION YEARS SEEMS LIKE
A REALLY LONG TIME, AND IN A
HUMAN TIME SCALE IT'S REALLY
LONG, BUT IN ASTRONOMICAL TIME
SCALE, IT'S REALLY NOT.
AND SO CHANCES ARE THAT NOT MUCH
HAS ACTUALLY CHANGED IN THAT
BLACK HOLE M87 SINCE THAT LIGHT
ACTUALLY LEFT US.

Steve says SO WOULD WE BE...
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IN LAYMAN'S
TERMS HOW ONE WOULD DESCRIBE
THAT THEN.
IS IT AN ECHO OR REFLECTION OF
IT?
WHAT IS IT?

Sarah says NO, IT'S JUST... IT'S AS IF
YOU ARE LOOKING BACK IN TIME A
LITTLE BIT AND THE MOVIE KEEPS
PLAYING AND IT'S GOING TO REACH
US EVENTUALLY, SO IN 55 MILLION
YEARS WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT IT
LOOKED LIKE NOW AT THIS INSTANT.
BUT IT'S UNLIKELY TO ACTUALLY
CHANGE ALL THAT MUCH IN THAT
AMOUNT OF TIME, EVEN THOUGH IN A
HUMAN TIME SCALE THAT'S A HUGE
AMOUNT OF TIME.
IN AN ASTRONOMICAL TIME SCALE,
THINGS CHANGE SLOWLY.

Steve says THAT BLACK HOLE IS 55
MILLION YEARS OLD?

Sarah says OH, IT'S WAY OLDER THAN THAT.
BLACK HOLES ARE JUST A PART OF A
GALAXY, AND GALAXIES ARE FORMED
WHEN THE UNIVERSE IS QUITE
YOUNG, AND THE BLACK HOLES
APPEAR TO BE FORMED WITH THEM.
AND SO THAT BLACK HOLE, IT'S A
HUGE BLACK HOLE COMPARED TO
OTHER BLACK HOLES.
IT LIKELY GREW WHEN THE UNIVERSE
WAS ABOUT A HALF TO A QUARTER OF
ITS PRESENT AGE.
SO THAT'S WHEN IT REALLY... YOU
KNOW, THAT'S WHEN IT REALLY WAS
BEEFING UP AND PUTTING ON
WAITING.
AND NOW IT'S NOT REALLY GAINING
THAT MUCH WAITING.
IT'S STILL, AS AVERY MENTIONED,
REALLY IMPACTING ITS
ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S SHOOTING OUT RELATIVISTIC
JETS AND STIRRING UP ALL THE GAS
THAT'S AROUND IT, BUT IT'S NOT
REALLY GAINING THAT MUCH
WAITING.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE QUIET AS
FAR AS GROWING BLACK HOLES GO.

Steve says BUT IT'S VERY OLD.

Sarah says BUT IT IS VERY OLD, YES,
EXACTLY.
IT'S A RELIC.
IT'S LEFT OVER FROM AN ERA WHEN
THAT GALAXY GREW AND BUILT UP
TONS OF STARS AND BUILT UP ALL
THE MASS OF THIS BLACK HOLE.

Steve says AVERY, THESE IMAGES
ARE NOT REGULAR PHOTOGRAPHS,
RIGHT?
HOW WOULD THESE IMAGES HAVE BEEN
CREATED?

The caption changes to "Knowing versus seeing."

Avery says SO THESE ARE, FIRST,
DIFFERENT FROM PHOTOGRAPHS IN
THAT THE IMAGES ARE TAKEN AT
MILLIMETRE WAVELENGTH OF LIGHT.
IT'S REALLY MICROWAVE IMAGES.
THIS IS WHAT THE BLACK HOLE
WOULD LOOK LIKE IF YOU HAD
MICROWAVE EYES, NOT OUR NORMAL
VISUAL EYES.
THE SECOND THING IS THE
RESOLUTION TO TAKE THIS IMAGE IS
SIMPLY EXTRAORDINARY.
IT REQUIRED THE HIGHEST
RESOLUTION IMAGING INSTRUMENT IN
THE HISTORY OF ASTRONOMY.

Steve says IT'S NOT A CAMERA.
WHAT WOULD YOU CALL IT?

Avery says IT'S A GLOBAL ARRAY OF
TELESCOPES.
SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE TELESCOPES
SPREAD AROUND THE WORLD THAT WE
TOGETHER USED TO SYNTHESIZE A
TELESCOPE THE SIZE OF THE EARTH.
A TELESCOPE WITH A DISH, WITH A
MIRROR LITERALLY THE SIZE OF THE
EARTH.
AND SO YOU TAKE DATA, EACH OF
THESE TELESCOPES SPREAD AROUND
THE WORLD, AND IN A COMPUTER WE
COMPLETE THE PROCESS OF BRINGING
THE LIGHT INTO FOCUS AND
GENERATING THE IMAGE.
AND THAT'S THE IMAGE THAT WE ARE
SEEING.
BUT IT'S CONCEPTUALLY VERY
SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WOULD GET IF
YOU PUT A CAMERA FOCUSED ON THE
TELESCOPE AND TOOK A SNAPSHOT,
AND YOU COULD DO SO IN THE RIGHT
WAVELENGTH.

Steve says HOW MUCH DATA WOULD
YOU HAVE TO COLLECT IN ORDER TO
HAVE THAT IMAGE?

Avery says SO WE LITERALLY HAD HALF A
TON OF DATA.

Steve says HALF A TON?
YOU COULD LAY IT?

Avery says 5.5 PETA BYTES.
THAT'S RIGHT.
IT'S THE HARD DRIVES SPREAD
AROUND THE WORLD TO TAKE THE
DATA FAST ENOUGH AND COLLECT
ENOUGH OF IT THAT WE COULD MAKE
THIS PICTURE.

Steve says NOW WHEN YOU GOT ALL
THE DATA?
DATA OR DATA?

Avery says THAT'S UP TO YOU.

Steve says DATA TO ME IS A
CHARACTER ON STAR TREK, SO I'LL
SAY DATA.
WHEN YOU GOT IT FROM THE EIGHT
DIFFERENT OBSERVATORIES THAT
YOU...

Avery says THAT'S RIGHT.
EIGHT DIFFERENT OBSERVATORIES
LOCATED AT SIX SITES AROUND THE
WORLD.

Steve says HOW DO YOU BRING IT
ALL INTO ONE PLACE?

Avery says FEDEX.
NO, THE HIGHEST BANDWIDTH
TRANSMISSION TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE
IS A 747 FILLED WITH HARD
DRIVES.

Steve says YOU'RE KIDDING?

Avery says YOU CAN'T BEAM THIS OVER THE
INTERNET.
IT WOULD TAKE FOREVER.

Steve says SO YOU LITERALLY FLY
IT BACK?

Avery says YOU LITERALLY TAKE THE HARD
DRIVES AND TRANSPORT THEM
PHYSICALLY BACK FACILITIES.

Steve says SO WHERE?

Avery says WE HAVE TWO FACILITIES THAT
COMPLETES THIS PROCESS, THAT
COMPLETES THE IMAGING PROCESS.
THE FIRST IS IN M.I.T. HAYSTACK
AND THE OTHER IS IN BONN,
GERMANY.
AND WE HAD BOTH OF THESE
FACILITIES WORKING NON-STOP ON
THIS DATA AS SOON AS WE HAD ALL
THE DATA PHYSICALLY BACK.
THIS WAS A NON-TRIVIAL TASK
BECAUSE ONE OF OUR STATIONS WAS
AT THE SOUTH POLE, AND YOU CAN'T
BRING THE DATA BACK AFTER IT'S
BEEN TAKEN TO THE SOUTH POLE.
YOU HAVE TO WAKE FOR THE AUSTRAL
SUMMER, AND SO THOSE TWO
FACILITIES, THEY COMPLETE THIS
PROCESS ON LARGE COMPUTERS WE
CALL CORRELATORS.

Steve says THERE'S A POPULAR
INTERNET MEME CALLED LAB RAH
DOODLE OR FRIED CHICKEN.
ARE YOU WITH ME ON THIS?

Sarah says OH, YEAH.

Steve says WHAT'S THE
SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT IN REGARDS
TO BLACK HOLE IMAGERY?

Sarah says IT'S...

Steve says FIRE AWAY.

A screenshot of a Google Image search appears on screen for the term "labradoodle or fried chicken." It shows 16 images of golden curly haired dogs and pieces of fried chicken that closely resemble them in texture and colour.

Sarah says OKAY.
IT'S A COMMON PROBLEM IN IMAGE
RECOGNITION IS THAT WE'RE
FAMILIAR WITH IS THAT IF YOU TRY
TO TRAIN A COMPUTER TO IDENTIFY
DIFFERENT KINDS OF OBJECTS, LIKE
LAB RAH DOODLES OR FRIED
CHICKEN, THERE ARE A LOT OF
CASES WHERE THE COMPUTER
ALGORITHM ACTUALLY CAN'T TELL
THE DIFFERENCE, AND THAT'S ONE
REGIME IN WHICH ACTUALLY THE
HUMAN EYE IS MUCH BETTER THAN A
LOT OF COMPUTER ALGORITHMS.
SO IF YOU TRY TO TRAIN YOUR
COMPUTER TO BE ABLE TO
DISTINGUISH BETWEEN DIFFERENT
KINDS OF IMAGES, THERE ARE SOME
REGIMES WHERE IT'S JUST REALLY
HARD TO TELL.
AND IN TERMS OF THE SPECIFIC
CASE OF AVERY'S IMAGE, I WILL
PASS THAT OFF TO HIM.

Avery says YES, SO IN OUR CASE I THINK
THE CHIEF DIFFICULTY THAT WE
WERE FACED WITH IS WE HAD GOOD
THEORETICAL REASON TO EXPECT AN
IMAGE THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT WE
SAW, AND WE'VE BEEN PREDICTING
THESE SORTS OF IMAGES FOR ALMOST
TWO DECADES NOW.
BUT WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT
WHEN WE WENT TO MAKE THE FIRST
IMAGE THAT WE WEREN'T BIASED,
THAT WE DIDN'T TRAIN OURSELVES
ONLY TO FIND RINGS OR CRESCENTS
WITH LARGE INTERIOR SHADOWS THAT
WOULD BE THE BLACK HOLE.
AND SO IN THIS CASE WE'RE REALLY
TESTING OUR BIAS, MAKING SURE
THAT WHATEVER METHODS WE HAVE
FOR GENERATING IMAGES DON'T
GENERATE JUST OBJECTS, JUST
RINGS WITH SHADOWS, EVEN IF
THEY'RE NOT THERE.
AND WE HAD AN EXTENSIVE SET OF
CHALLENGES AND AN EXTENSIVE SET
OF TESTING OUR IMAGING ALGORITHM
TO SAY MAKE SURE THAT IN FACT
WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A SHADOW YOU
DON'T SEE ONE.
AND IN FACT THERE ARE OTHER
SOURCES THAT WE LOOK AT.
THERE ARE SOURCES THAT ARE TOO
FAR AWAY, 55 MILLION LIGHT YEARS
SOUNDS LIKE A LONG WAY, BUT A
BLACK HOLE THE SIZE OF M87, 55
LIGHT YEARS IS A BLACK YARD.
THERE ARE BLACK HOLES MUCH
FURTHER AWAY, AND WE CAN'T SEE
THE SHADOWS ON THOSE BLACK
HOLES.
THEY ARE TOO FAR.
WE DO SEE LIGHT AND BLOBBY
FEATURES, AND INDEED WHEN WE
APPLY OUR IMAGING ALGORITHMS WE
SEE BLOBBY FEATURES INSTEAD OF
THE RING SHADOW.
AND THE LAB DOODLE AND FRIED
CHICKEN OR THE CHIHUAHUA AND
BLUEBERRY MUFFIN, THESE ARE IN A
SENSE US UNDERSTANDING BIAS.

Steve says SARAH, NOW THAT YOU'VE
SEEN IT, HAVE YOU LEARNED
SOMETHING NEW ABOUT THE NATURE
OF BLACK HOLES?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Sarah says I WOULD SAY NO.
I MEAN, IT WAS A FANTASTIC
ACHIEVEMENT, AND I THINK WHAT IT
DOES IS IT REALLY SETS THE
STAGE.
I MEAN, IT'S A DEMONSTRATION
THAT WE CAN DO THESE FANTASTIC
THINGS.
IN TERMS OF WHAT... THERE WAS
THE SIZE OF IT WAS AS EXPECTED,
WHICH WAS GREAT.
IT WAS... YOU KNOW, WE CONFIRMED
SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT IN A
COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT WAY.
WE AS THE ASTRONOMY COMMUNITY.
BUT WHAT I THINK IT DOES IS IT
REALLY SETS THE STAGE.
I MEAN, IT DEMONSTRATED THAT
THEY CAN DO IT.
THERE'S MORE BLACK HOLES OUT
THERE.
WE WANT A BIGGER TELESCOPE, SO
WE NEED... WE HAVE TO PUT THEM
IN SPACE, RIGHT?
THE EARTH ISN'T ANY BIGGER.
AND NOW WE CAN GO OUT, AND THE
OTHER THING TOO IS THAT EVERY
ONE OF THESE OBJECTS IS GOING TO
TELL US SOMETHING NEW ABOUT THE
IMMEDIATE ENVIRONMENT AROUND THE
BLACK HOLE.
SO WE WON'T NECESSARILY LEARN
SOMETHING NEW ABOUT BLACK HOLES.
THEY ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY SIMPLE
OBJECTS, BUT WE CAN LEARN A LOT
MORE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT,
ABOUT HOW THEY GROW, AND
ULTIMATELY HOW THEY MIGHT IMPACT
THE GALAXIES THAT THEY LIVE IN.
I THINK THAT'S QUITE EXCITING.

Avery says I THINK AN IMPORTANT ADDENDUM
AS WELL IS THAT UP UNTIL THIS
POINT A LOT OF THE STORIES THAT
WE WOULD TELL ABOUT HOW MATTER
BEHAVES NEAR BLACK HOLES, WHAT'S
THE STRUCTURE OF THE SPACE TIME,
HOW DOES GRAVITY BEHAVE NEAR
BLACK HOLES, HOW DO BLACK HOLES
INTERACT WITH MATTER, THESE ARE
IN SOME SENSE, YOU KNOW,
THEORIES, RIGHT?
BUT DO YOU THINK THEY RISE TO
THE LEVEL OF SCIENTIFIC THEORY
IN THE SENSE THAT THEY WERE GOOD
EDUCATED GUESSES BASED UPON
DETAILED SIMULATION AND
CALCULATION.
BUT ALWAYS EXTRAPOLATION.
ALWAYS PUSHED INTO A REGIME THAT
WE HAD NEVER BEEN ABLE TO ACCESS
BEFORE.
AND SO DID WE LEARN SOMETHING
NEW?
WE LEARNED THAT ALL OF THE
DEAD-TIME STORIES WE TELL OUR
GRADUATE STUDENTS ARE TRUE.

Steve says WHICH ONES?

Avery says WE BASED THEM ON THE
FIRMAMENT
OF EMPIRICAL OBSERVATION.
THESE ONE THINGS LIKE HOW DO
PHOTONS BEHAVE AROUND BLACK
HOLES.
HOW DO THEY ORBIT AROUND BLACK
HOLES.
HOW DOES THE BENDING OF THE
LIGHT INTO THOSE CIRCLES WORK?
HOW DO THESE JETS GET LAUNCHED?
YOU KNOW, ONE THING IN THE IMAGE
WHICH IS OF INTEREST TO THE
SPECIALISTS BUT PERHAPS DOESN'T
GET PLAYED OFTEN IN THE PRESS IS
THAT THE M87 ACTUALLY GOES OFF
IN THE IMAGES THAT'S NORMALLY
SHOWN TO THE RIGHT.
BUT IT'S BRIGHT FROM THE SOUTH.
IT'S BRIGHT ON THE BOTTOM.

Steve says M87, MESSIER 87, WHO'S
MESSIER?

Avery says CHARLES MESSIER WAS AN 18TH
CENTURY COMET HUNTER.
BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE 18TH
CENTURY, IF YOU WANTED FAME AND
FORTUNE, YOU WOULD GO AND FIND
THESE TRANSIENT EVENTS AND MAKE
PREDICTIONS ABOUT THEM, FIND
COMETS.
AS A COMET HUNTER HE FOUND FAME
AND FORTUNE WITH SOMETHING LIKE
EIGHT COMETS, SOME LARGE NUMBER,
BUT HE WOULD... COMETS, WHEN
THEY ARE FIRST VISIBLE AND NOT
THESE BRIGHT OBJECTS WITH CLEAR
TAILS.
LIKE, THEY ARE FUZZY PATCHES ON
THE SKY, AND SO IF YOU WANTED TO
BE THE FIRST TO FIND A COMET,
YOU HAD TO GO FIND FUZZY PATCHES
ON THE SKY, AND HIS CATALOGUE OF
AROUND 300 OBJECTS, HIS
CATALOGUE ARE NOT COMMON.
THEY ARE FUZZY PATCHES ON THE
SKY THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BRING
ME FAME AND FORTUNE.

Sarah says YEAH, THEY DON'T MOVE.

Avery says THEY DON'T MOVE.
AND SO THIS IS CHARLES MESSIER'S
87TH NOT COMET.
WHERE WE FOUND OUT THIS.
IF WE LOOK AT THE PICTURE.

Steve says PICTURE BACK UP.

The picture reappears.

Avery says SO IT'S RIGHT ON THE BOTTOM
THAT THERE'S THIS RING, THERE'S
A BRIGHT FEATURE ON THE BOTTOM,
BUT THE JET ACTUALLY PROPAGATES
OFF TO THE RIGHT.
SO WHY IS IT BRIGHT ON THE
BOTTOM?
IT'S BRIGHT ON THE BOTTOM
BECAUSE THE JETS ARE POWERED BY
THE ROTATION OF THE BLACK HOLE.
AND THE ROTATION OF THE BLACK
HOLE IS DRAGGING MATERIAL AROUND
IN THIS CORKSCREWING MOTION AS
IT FLOWS OUTWARD.

Steve says WHICH DIRECTION IS IT
ROTATING IT?

Avery says THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.
IT'S ACTUALLY THE SPIN AXIS IS
VERY CLOSE TO INTO THE PAGE,
INTO THE SCREEN.
OKAY?
SO IT'S ABOUT 17 degrees INTO THE
SCREEN, A LITTLE BIT TILTED OFF
TO THE LEFT.

Steve says CLOCKWISE OR
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE?

Avery says OH, SURE, SURE.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.

Avery says IT'S ROTATING CLOCKWISE.

Steve says CLOCKWISE, OKAY.

Avery says THERE WE GO.
IT'S A THREE DIMENSIONAL OBJECT,
RIGHT?
ON THE IMAGES... AND SO WE SEE
MATERIAL THAT'S CORKSCREWING
AROUND, AND THAT CORKSCREWING
MOTION CAUSES THE BRIGHTNESS TO
BE IN THE SOUTH, NOT ON THE
RIGHT SIDE, NOT ON THE LEFT.

Steve says GOT IT.

Avery says SO THIS IS A BED-TIME STORY
WE TELL OUR STUDENTS.

Sarah says AND WE WEREN'T LYING.

Avery says WE WEREN'T LYING.
WE HAVE CONFIRMATION.

Steve says DO YOU THINK, SARAH,
THESE IMAGES REFLECT A LEVEL OF
KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION FOR US
THAT IS, WHAT, BEYOND EINSTEIN
WOULD HAVE UNDERSTAND A HUNDRED
YEARS AGO?
LIGHT YEARS BEYOND?
NOT MUCH BEYOND?
I DON'T KNOW.
YOU TELL ME.

Sarah says THIS IS OPERATING IN QUITE A
DIFFERENT REGIME, WHICH WAS VERY
THEORETICAL AND VERY ABSTRACT.
HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT BLACK HOLES
EXISTED IN THE WORLD, SO I MEAN,
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S
HAPPENED, THE EVIDENCE FOR THE
FIRST BLACK HOLES WAS FOUND IN
THE '60S AND '70S, SO THEY ARE
MUCH BEYOND EINSTEIN.
AND THEN THIS WHOLE QUESTION OF
TAKING A VERY ABSTRACT,
THEORETICAL CONCEPT LIKE A BLACK
HOLE, AND THEN THINKING ABOUT,
OKAY, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THE
SPACE TIME AROUND IT?
HOW DOES LIGHT MOVE AROUND THE
BLACK HOLE?
HOW DOES IT AFFECT THE GALAXY
THAT IT LIVES?
HOW DO YOU FEED IT?
HOW DO YOU POWER IT?
I MEAN, THOSE ARE JUST LAYERS
AND LAYERS OF COMPLEXITY THAT I
DON'T THINK WERE IN HIS... THEY
WERE SORT OF BEYOND THE PALE IN
TERMS OF WHAT HE WOULD BE
THINKING ABOUT IT ALL.

Steve says A FEW WEEKS AGO A
GROUP ANNOUNCED THAT THERE IS
SOME EVIDENCE THAT A BLACK HOLE
DEVOURED A NEUTRON STAR.
LET'S START ON THIS.
WHAT'S A NEUTRON STAR?

The caption changes to "Violent encounters."

Sarah says SO A NEUTRON STAR IS A
REMNANT OF A MASSIVE STAR, MUCH
MORE MASSIVE THAN OUR SUN.
AND AFTER IT USES UP ALL OF ITS
FUEL IN THE CENTRE OF IT, AND IT
CAN NO LONGER HOLD ITSELF UP
AGAINST THE COLLAPSE OF GRAVITY,
IT WILL EXPLODE AS A SUPERNOVA
AND IT WILL LEAVE A CINDER LEFT
OVER, WHICH IS A NEUTRON STAR.
IT'S ABOUT THE DENSITY OF THE
NUCLEUS.
IT'S INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY
DENSE.
AND SO IT WOULD BE SOMETHING
ABOUT THE MASS OF OUR SUN,
THAT'S ABOUT 10 KILOMETRES
ACROSS.

A picture appears on screen of a bright yellow disc in space with clouds of materials around it.

Steve says OKAY.
SHELDON BRING THAT PICTURE UP
AGAIN, BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO HAVE
SARAH ACTUALLY DESCRIBE EXACTLY
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT
THERE.

Sarah says SO THAT LOOKS TO ME LIKE A...
IF THIS IS AN ARTIST'S IMAGE
THAT CAME ALONG, THAT WOULD BE A
BLACK HOLE THAT HAS SHREDDED A
NEUTRON STAR AROUND IT, AND NOW
IT'S A RING AROUND IT.

Steve says OKAY, WHICH IS WHICH?

Sarah says WELL, THE BLACK HOLE IS THE
BLACK THING IN THE MIDDLE.

Steve says IN THE MIDDLE, OKAY.

Sarah says AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS AS
THE NEUTRON STAR GETS TOO CLOSE
TO THE BLACK HOLE, WHAT HAPPENS
IS THE FORCE OF GRAVITY ON THE
NEAR SIDE OF THE NEUTRON STAR IS
MUCH GREATER THAN ON THE FAR
SIDE OF THE NEUTRON STAR, AND
THE NEUTRON STAR, EVEN THOUGH
IT'S VERY SMALL AND VERY DENSE,
CANNOT HOLD ITSELF TOGETHER, AND
SO IT'S GOING TO GET SHREDDED
APART.

Steve says SO IT WASN'T ACTUALLY
EAT THE NEUTRON STAR.

Sarah says OH, YES, IT DOES.

Steve says IT DOES?

Sarah says IT WILL EAT THE NEUTRON STAR,
BUT IT'S KIND OF... IT'S SORT OF
PLAYING WITH ITS FOOD.
SO IT ACTUALLY... YOU KNOW, IT
TEARS IT APART FIRST AND THEN
IT'S GOING TO SWALLOW IT.

Steve says AND HOW DO YOU KNOW
THAT SOMETHING BIG JUST HAPPENED
THERE?

Sarah says SO THIS PARTICULAR EVENT WAS
DETECTED WITH THE LIGO AND THE
VIRGO OBSERVATORIES WHICH ARE
THE COMBINED MIGHT OF THE
GRAVITATIONAL WAVE FACILITIES IN
EUROPE AND IN THE UNITED STATES.
AND THEY DETECTED A VERY FAINT
RIPPLE IN SPACE TIME THAT IS...
AND THE SHAPE OF THAT RIPPLE IS
CONSISTENT WITH THIS TYPE OF AN
EVENT.

Steve says HMM.
DO BLACK HOLES GROW BY EATING
OTHER STARS AND PLANETS AND SO
ON?

Avery says ALL THE TIME.

Steve says THEY DO.

Avery says ALL THE TIME.

Sarah says THEY'RE NOT PICKY, THOUGH.

Steve says THEY'LL EAT ANYTHING.

Sarah says THEY'LL EAT ANYTHING.

An animation plays on screen in which bright yellow particles spin around a black sphere in space, at increasing speeds and brightness.

Avery says IT DEPENDS ON WHAT COMES
THEIR WAY, BUT THAT'S RIGHT.
BLACK HOLES CERTAINLY GROW BY
EATING STARS.
THEY'LL EAT OTHER BLACK HOLES.

Steve says THEY EAT OTHER BLACK
HOLES?

Avery says AND THEY'LL EAT GAS.
THOSE ARE THE PRIMARY WAYS THAT
WE THINK ABOUT BLACK HOLES
GROWING.
EITHER EATING GAS AND MASS IN
PARCELS OR EATING GAS AND MASS
SLOWLY SIPPING FROM THE STREAM,
AS IT WERE.

Steve says HOW BIG CAN THEY GET?

Sarah says WELL, THERE'S AN OBSERVED
UPPER LIMIT, AND THEN THERE'S A
THEORETICAL UPPER LIMIT.
THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP THE
GROWTH OF A BLACK HOLE AS LONG
AS YOU'RE ABLE TO KEEP FEEDING
IT.
IF WE LOOK OUT IN THE UNIVERSE
AND WE FIND THE BIGGEST BLACK
HOLES IN THE BIGGEST GALAXIES
AND WE MEASURE THE MASS OF THOSE
BLACK HOLES, THEY SEEM TO TOP
OUT AT ABOUT 10 BILLION TIMES
THE MASS OF THE SUN.
THAT SEEMS TO BE HOW BIG NATURE
GROWS THEM IN OUR UNIVERSE, BUT
THERE'S NO PHYSICAL REASON THEY
COULDN'T GROW BIGGER.
IT'S JUST THAT THERE DOES NOT
APPEAR TO BE ENVIRONMENTS WHERE
THEY HAVE ENOUGH MATERIAL TO
ACTUALLY CONTINUE TO GROW.

Steve says SO 10 BILLION TIMES
THE SIZE OF OUR SUN.

Sarah says THE MASS OF OUR SUN, YES.

Steve says MEANS THEY COULD
EASILY EAT US.

Sarah says THEY COULD CERTAINLY EAT US,
BUT THEY'RE NOT ANYWHERE NEAR
CLOSE ENOUGH.
SO THERE'S NO BLACK HOLE THAT'S
ANYWHERE CLOSE TO OUR SOLAR
SYSTEM.

Steve says NOT TODAY.

Avery says IT'S THE THOUGHT OF A GOOD B
GRADE SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE, A
BLACK HOLE CRASHING THROUGH THE
SOLAR SYSTEM.

Steve says IT'S COMING OUR WAY.

Avery says I'M SURE THE MOVIE IS.
JUST WATCH FOR NETFLIX.
BUT YEAH, BLACK HOLES, KEY
FACTOR ABOUT BLACK HOLES IS THEY
DON'T SUCK.
THEY ARE NOT VACUUM CLEANERS.
THEY DON'T JUST PULL ALL THE
MATERIAL IN.
IF YOU REPLACED THE SUN WITH A
BLACK HOLE, FIRST CANADA
WOULDN'T CHANGE AT ALL.
IT WOULD STILL BE COLD.
THEN THE ORBIT OF THE EARTH
WOULDN'T CHANGE EITHER.
IT WOULD SAY THE SAME.
IT WOULD JUST BE DARK, RIGHT?
IT WOULDN'T SUDDENLY PULL THE
EARTH INWARD, RIGHT?
SO BLACK HOLES AREN'T COSMIC
VACUUM CLEANERS, BUT THEY ARE IN
SOME SENSE, YOU KNOW, PERFECT
TRASH PITS.

Steve says PERFECT EATING
MACHINE.
AGAIN, I HAVE THE FIGURES HERE
IN FRONT OF ME, AND SARAH,
FORGIVE ME, I'M NOT SURE MY
BRAIN IS JUST SORT OF ADVANCED
ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND THIS.
THE M78 BLACK HOLE IS 38 BILLION
KILOMETRES WIDE.
HOW DO YOU CONCEIVE OF SOMETHING
THAT IMMENSE?

The caption changes to "What's next?"

Sarah says SO I USUALLY THINK ABOUT IT
IN TERMS OF YOU START WITH
SOMETHING THAT'S MUCH MORE
IMAGINABLE AND THEN YOU SORT OF
STEP OUT.
SO IF WE TALK ABOUT... AND I
THINK LIGHT DISTANCES ARE REALLY
HELPFUL BECAUSE WE CAN PUT THEM,
AGAIN, IN MORE HUMAN TERMS.
DISTANCES, ONCE YOU GET BEYOND
SORT OF THOUSANDS ARE JUST
NOT... YOU KNOW, THOUSANDS OF
KILOMETRES, YOU KNOW,
APPROXIMATELY THE SIZE OF THE
EARTH, AND BEYOND THAT IT'S HARD
FOR US TO PICTURE.
BUT IF WE THINK ABOUT TIME, THAT
CAN BE MORE HELPFUL.
SO IT TAKES ABOUT EIGHT MINUTES
FOR LIGHT TO TRAVEL FROM THE SUN
TO THE EARTH, AND IT TAKES ABOUT
FIVE HOURS FOR LIGHT TO TRAVEL
FROM THE SUN TO PLUTO.
SO THAT GIVES YOU KIND OF AN
IDEA OF THE SIZE OF OUR SOLAR
SYSTEM.

An animation plays in which the view of a starry sky homes in on a distant galaxy, then on a cluster of stars and finally on the bright orange ring around the black hole seen before.

Sarah continues AND THEN IF WE STEP OUT TO THE
NEAREST STARS, IT TAKES A FEW
YEARS FOR LIGHT TO TRAVEL FROM
THE SUN TO THE NEAREST STARS.
AND THEN WE HAVE TO TAKE A BIG
STEP, WHICH IS 25,000 YEARS FOR
LIGHT TO TRAVEL FROM THE SUN TO
THE CENTRE OF OUR GALAXY.
SO WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME, WE
SORT OF ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO A
REALLY SMALL PART OF OUR GALAXY.
AND THEN WE CAN STEP OUT TO THE
NEAREST BIG GALAXY, AND THAT'S
ABOUT 2.5 MILLION LIGHT YEARS
AWAY.
THAT'S THE ANDROMEDA GALAXY.
AND THEN WE CAN STEP OUT TO M87
WHICH IS 55 MILLION LIGHT YEARS
AWAY.
AND SO THOSE ARE REALLY BIG
DISTANCES, BUT I THINK IT DOES
HELP IF YOU SORT OF ANCHOR
YOURSELF IN SOMETHING THAT'S
MORE MANAGEABLE, LIKE OUR SOLAR
SYSTEM, AND THEN STEP YOUR WAY
OUT.

Steve says GOTCHA.
OKAY, IN OUR REMAINING MOMENTS
HERE, WHEN WE HAVE COSMOLOGISTS
ENTOMOLOGISTS ON OUR PROGRAM,
WHICH WE HAVE FROM TIME TO TIME,
WE LIKE TO ASK A LIGHTNING ROUND
OF QUESTIONS.
LET'S DO THAT RIGHT NOW.
ONE UNIVERSE OR MANY AVERY?

Avery says ONE.

Sarah says ONE.

Steve says YOU AGREE ON THAT.

Sarah says I AGREE.
IF IT'S MANY, IT DOESN'T MATTER
BECAUSE WE CAN'T SEE THEM.

Steve says OKAY.
ALL ALONE OR OTHER SENTIENT
INTELLIGENT BEINGS OUT THERE WHO
EXPLORE SPACE THE WAY WE DO.
AVERY?

Avery says I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GO WITH
OTHERS, OTHERWISE IT'S VERY
LONELY.

Steve says SO NOT THAT YOU
ACTUALLY HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF
IT, BUT IT'S JUST THE WAY YOU
WANT IT?

Avery says SO DESPITE BEING AN
ASTRONOMER AND THEREFORE
OBSESSED WITH SMALL NUMBER
STATISTICS, IT IS HARD TO MAKE
PREDICTIONS BASED ON ONLY ONE
EVENT.
BUT HUMANS, LIFE ON EARTH DIDN'T
TAKE VERY LONG TO DEVELOP, AND
HUMANS DIDN'T TAKE VERY LONG TO
DEVELOP.
AND SO IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT
THE EVENT THAT OCCURRED ARE SO
RARE THAT THEY HAVEN'T OCCURRED
ELSEWHERE.

Steve says SARAH, ALL ALONE OR
OTHERS ARE OUT THERE?

Sarah says I AGREE WITH AVERY.
I THINK THE CHANCES THAT WE'LL
HAVE WILL ACTUALLY BE IN SOME
POSITION TO INTERACT WITH OTHER
INTELLIGENT LIFE IS PRETTY
SMALL, BUT CHANCES ARE IT'S OUT
THERE.
I AGREE.

Steve says PHYSICISTS HAVE LONG
SOUGHT ONE ABSOLUTE PERFECT
THEORY THAT WOULD UNIFY ALL THE
LAWS OF NATURE.
IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN?

Sarah says PROBABLY, BUT I ALSO THINK
THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER
PHYSICS THAT, FROM MY POINT OF
VIEW, A LOT MORE INTERESTING.
AND SO IF IT DOESN'T, I'M NOT
GOING TO LOSE SLEEP OVER IT.

Steve says NOT GOING TO LOSE
SLEEP OVER IT.
AVERY?

Avery says I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT IT
WILL HAPPEN.
I HAVE TO.
I THINK A LOT OF SCIENCE IS THE
QUEST TO BRING ORDER TO CHAOS.
AND EVEN THOUGH SARAH'S EXACTLY
RIGHT, MORE IS NOT MORE.
IT IS DIFFERENT.
RIGHT?
WHEN YOU HAVE MANY ATOMS
INTERACTING, SUDDENLY ALL KINDS
OF DIFFERENT THINGS CAN OCCUR,
AND THERE'S A LOT OF DEEP AND
INTERESTING AND EXCITING PHYSICS
IN THAT.
KNOWING THAT AT THE BOTTOM OF IT
ALL THERE IS ONE COHERENT
EXPLANATION, ONE COHERENT
FRAMEWORK FOR UNDERSTANDING, YOU
KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S A MATTER OF
FOUNDATION.
IT FOUNDS EVERYTHING THAT COMES
AFTER, I THINK.
I HAVE TO BELIEVE IT TO GET UP
EVERY MORNING AND DO WHAT I DO.

Steve says YOU GOTTA BELIEVE.
LAST QUESTION.
STAR TREK THE ORIGINAL SERIES OR
THE NEXT GENERATION?

Sarah says NEXT GENERATION.

Steve says REALLY?
YOU'RE TOO YOUNG.
THAT'S WHY YOU'D SAY THAT.
GO AHEAD?

Avery says ORIGINAL SERIES.

Steve says HEAR, HEAR.

Avery says I DON'T KNOW IF THAT DATES
ME.

Steve says I KNOW YOU'RE NOT OLD
ENOUGH TO WATCH IT WHEN IT FIRST
APPEARED ON AIR, LIKE I AM, BUT
YOU GOT THE RIGHT ANSWER.
DO YOU WATCH STAR TREK
DISCOVERY, THE NEW ONE?

Sarah says NO.

Avery says NO.

Steve says YOU GUYS ARE MISSING
OUT.
I MEAN, I KNOW ALL THIS IS
INTERESTING, BUT YOU REALLY
SHOULD WATCH THAT.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Sarah says WE'VE GOT OUR HOMEWORK.

The caption changes to "Producer: Wodek Szemberg, @wodekszemberg; Student Intern: Maria Sarrouh."

Steve says WATCH DISCOVERY AND
WE'LL COME BACK AND CHAT AGAIN.
THAT'S SARAH GALLAGHER AND AVERY
BRODERICK WHO ARE SIMPLY DOING
SOME OF THE MOST SPECTACULAR
RESEARCH AND WORK THAT IS
IMAGINABLE ON THIS PLANET.
OR ANY OTHER, FOR THAT MATTER.
NICE TO HAVE BOTH OF YOU HERE ON
TVO TONIGHT.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Sarah says THANK YOU.

Avery says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Watch: Black Holes Rule!