Transcript: Rethinking Ontario's Housing Supply | May 10, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Rethinking Ontario's Housing Supply. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says FROM LOW VACANCY
RATES TO CLIMBING HOME PRICES,
HOUSING IS TOP OF MIND FOR MANY
ONTARIANS.
LAST WEEK, THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT UNVEILED PLANS TO
HELP BOOST SUPPLY IN THE
PROVINCE.
HERE TO EXPLAIN, STEVE CLARK,
THE MINISTER OF MUNICIPAL
AFFAIRS AND HOUSING, AND PC MPP
FOR, WAIT FOR IT,
LEEDS-GRENVILLE-THOUSAND
ISLANDS AND RIDEAU LAKES -
LONGEST NAME IN THE LEGISLATURE.

Clark is in his fifties, clean-shaven and bald. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, blue shirt, and striped gray tie.

Clark says ABSOLUTELY.
LONG NAME, AMAZING SERVICE.

Steve says IT'S GREAT TO HAVE
YOU HERE.

Clark says THANK YOU.

Steve says FIRST TIME SINCE YOU
GOT APPOINTED TO CABINET.

Clark says ABSOLUTELY.
THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says NICE TO HAVE YOU IN
THAT CHAIR.

Clark says GLAD TO BE HERE.

Steve says TELL ME THE MISSION
OF THE NEW HOUSING SUPPLY ACTION PLAN?

The caption changes to "Steve Clark. PC MPP, Leeds-Greenville-Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes."
Then, it changes again to "Taking the politics out of planning?"

Clark says OUR VISION FOR MORE HOMES,
MORE CHOICE, ONTARIO'S HOUSING
SUPPLY ACTION PLAN, IS REALLY TO
CREATE MORE SUPPLY.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
EVERYONE HAS A PLACE THAT THEY
CAN CALL HOME AT A PRICE THAT
THEY CAN AFFORD.
THAT'S THE UNDERLINING POLICY
THAT WE TOOK WHEN WE HAD
CONSULTATIONS AND ULTIMATELY
TABLED THIS BILL LAST WEEK.

Steve says HOW DO YOU THINK IT
IMPROVES UPON THE SITUATION YOU INHERITED?

Clark says WELL, THE ONE THING THAT
REALLY BECAME EVIDENT IS WE'RE
IN A CRISIS SITUATION.
WE'VE GOT VACANCY RATES, AS YOU
SAID RIGHT AT THE VERY START,
THAT ARE AT AN ALL-TIME LOW.
PEOPLE JUST DON'T SEEM TO BE
ABLE TO SEE A PATH FOR HOME
OWNERSHIP, AND THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF REGULATIONS, PEOPLE
KEPT TALKING TO ME ABOUT THE RED
TAPE THAT THEY HAVE TO FACE, THE
BACKLOG THAT THEY'VE FACED AT
TRIBUNALS AND AT PLANNING
MEETINGS AND WE REALLY NEEDED TO
DO SOMETHING TO SPUR ON HOUSING
SUPPLY.
AND WE HAVE EXTENSIVE
CONSULTATIONS.
WE MADE A NUMBER OF
ANNOUNCEMENTS IN THE FALL.
WE'VE SIGNALED, AFTER THIS BILL
HAS BEEN TABLED, THERE ARE
THINGS THAT WE ARE GOING TO DO
IN FUTURE.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT
GOVERNMENT CAN DO TO CREATE AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE HOUSING SUPPLY
IS INCREASED, AND THAT'S EXACTLY
WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO WITH THIS
BILL.

Steve says THAT'S THE GIST OF
IT, RIGHT?
YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY IN THE
HOME-BUILDING BUSINESS.
YOU WANT TO CREATE CONDITIONS
UNDER WHICH HOMES CAN BE BUILT?

Clark says CORRECT, CORRECT.
GOVERNMENT ARE NOT HOME
BUILDERS.
BUT WE CAN CREATE A CLIMATE THAT
CREATES THE OPPORTUNITIES TO
BUILD MORE HOMES MORE QUICKLY.

Steve says RED TAPE.
GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A
REGULATION THAT WAS IN THERE
BEFORE THAT YOU THOUGHT, THIS IS
STUPID, THIS IS JUST INHIBITING
HOME CONSTRUCTION.
I'M GETTING RID OF IT?

The caption changes to "Steve Clark. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing."

Clark says FIRST OF ALL, JUST THE AMOUNT
OF TIME THAT IT TAKES, YOU KNOW?
THE EXAMPLE THAT I USE IS A
BUILDING... IN MY BUILDING WAS
THE FIRST FILE I OPENED AS AN
MPP IN MARCH OF 2010.
IT WAS AN AFFORDABLE SENIORS
HOUSING BUILDING.
AND LITERALLY, PEOPLE JUST MOVED
IN TWO MONTHS AGO.
SO IT TOOK ALMOST NINE YEARS TO
ACTUALLY BECOME A REALITY.
EVERYONE AGREED WITH IT.
IT WAS NOT TAKEN TO A TRIBUNAL.
IT DIDN'T GO TO LPAT OR THE OMB.
IT WASN'T STUCK IN TERMS OF A
COUNCIL FRAMEWORK.
IT JUST WAS THE SYSTEM THAT
WE'VE LAID OUT FOR AN AFFORDABLE
HOUSING PROJECT.
IT TOOK NINE YEARS.
THAT HAD TO STOP.
THAT'S AN EXAMPLE THAT I USED AT
A NUMBER OF ROUNDTABLES, AND
PEOPLE AGREED.
THEY HAD THEIR OWN EXAMPLES OF
JUST THE NORMAL PLANNING PROCESS
TAKING SO LONG WITH LITERALLY
LITTLE OPTIONS FOR THAT
DEVELOPMENT TO TAKE PLACE.

Steve says OKAY.
HELP US UNDERSTAND THIS, BECAUSE
THE ONTARIO MUNICIPAL BOARD WAS
THIS SORT OF SAFETY VALVE ON
CITY COUNCIL DECISIONS.
IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE A DECISION
THAT CAME OUT OF COUNCIL, YOU
COULD APPEAL TO THE ONTARIO
MUNICIPAL BOARD... THAT'S HARD
TO SAY... AND IT WAS KIND OF
THAT WAY FOR ABOUT 90 YEARS.
THEN THE LIBERALS PUT A NEW
PROCESS IN PLACE, THE LPAT,
LOCAL PLANNING...

Clark says APPEAL TRIBUNAL.

Steve says APPEAL TRIBUNAL.
THEY PUT THAT PROCESS IN PLACE
AND OF COURSE THEY LOST THE
ELECTION AND NOW YOU'VE PUT A
NEW PROCESS IN PLACE.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
WHAT YOU'VE DONE AND WHAT YOU
INHERITED?

The caption changes to "OMB Back from the dead?"

Clark says WELL, I LIKE TO THINK THAT WE
TOOK SOME OF THE GOOD FROM THE
OLD PROCESS AND GOOD FROM SOME
OF THE EXISTING PROCESS TO MOVE
FORWARD.
I KNOW SOME OF OUR CRITICS ARE
TALKING ABOUT THAT WE'VE JUST
REVERTED BACK TO THE OLD OMB.
THAT'S NOT TRUE.
BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS
THAT THERE WAS ABOUT 100,000
UNITS STUCK AT A TRIBUNAL,
EITHER THE LEGACY CASES BEFORE
THE OMB OR, OVER THE LAST
YEAR... BECAUSE IT WAS A YEAR IN
APRIL THAT THE LPAT WAS
CREATED... NOTHING WAS GETTING
DONE.
OUR INITIATIVE, MORE HOMES MORE
CHOICE, MAKES A PRIORITY OF
TRYING TO GET RID OF THAT LOGJAM
BEFORE A TRIBUNAL.
WE'RE APPOINTING 11 NEW
ADJUDICATORS, AN INCREASE OF
ABOUT 40 PERCENT.
WE'RE WORKING WITH TRIBUNALS
ONTARIO AND THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL'S OFFICE TO DEAL WITH
SOME OF THE ADJUDICATIVE POWERS
THAT THE LPA, IT HAS THAT WE'D
LIKE TO TRY TO GET THE BACKLOG
DEALT WITH, EITHER THROUGH
MEDIATION OR THROUGH SOME OTHER
MEANS.
WE ALSO WANT TO MOVE TO A MORE
COST RECOVERY MODEL.
SO I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT WE'RE
TAKING SOME OF THE BEST OF BOTH
SYSTEMS AND CREATING A NEW LPAT
THAT REALLY UNLOCKS THOSE
100,000 UNITS.
THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT.
IT'S ABOUT CREATING
OPPORTUNITIES TO BUILD MORE
HOMES FOR PEOPLE.

Steve says WHAT DOES A COST
RECOVERY MODEL MEAN?

Clark says SOME OF THE FEES THAT WERE
CHARGED, IT ALLOWS THE LPAT TO
LOOK AT SOME OF THE FEES
TYPICALLY CHARGED AND MOVE TO
COST RECOVERY.
IT WOULD INCREASE FEES DEPENDING
ON WHAT TYPE OF APPLICATION IT
WOULD BE.
AGAIN, SOME SUSTAINABLE MEASURES
THAT WE PUT FORWARD, BUT SUFFICE
IT TO SAY, THE WHOLE POINT IS WE
NEED MORE HOUSING BUILT, AND TO
HAVE 100,000 UNITS STUCK AT ONE
OF THE TWO TRIBUNALS... YES, I'M
CREATING A THIRD TRIBUNAL, SO TO
SPEAK, TO SORT OF DEAL WITH IT.
BUT I THINK THAT'S WHERE THERE
IS FRUSTRATION.
THERE WAS ONE CASE I WAS SHOWN
AS AN EXAMPLE THAT IT'S BEEN
STUCK AT THE TRIBUNAL FOR SEVEN
YEARS.
YES, IT'S PROBABLY A WORSE CASE
SCENARIO, BUT STILL, SEVEN YEARS
BEFORE A TRIBUNAL SYSTEM IS
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
WAITING TWO OR THREE YEARS FOR A
HEARING IS UNACCEPTABLE.
AND I THINK THE POWERS THAT
WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON TO
CHANGE... THE BIG THING IS
PROVIDING THOSE EXTRA 11
ADJUDICATORS.
NO ONE CAN SAY WE'RE GOING BACK
TO AN OLD SYSTEM.
THIS IS A BRAND NEW SYSTEM THAT
I THINK TAKES PIECES FROM THE
OMB AND THE LPAT AND I THINK
WILL IMPROVE THE SITUATION
GREATLY.

Steve says NEEDLESS TO SAY,
POLITICIANS HAVE THE JOB OF
FINDING OUT WHERE THE SWEET SPOT
IS, WHERE THE BALANCE IS.
YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TOO PRO
DEVELOPMENT, NOT TOO PRO NOT IN
MY BACK YARD, AND OBVIOUSLY A
LOT OF YOUR CRITICS HAVE COME
FORWARD SINCE YOU INTRODUCED
THIS SAYING YOU GOT THE BALANCE
WRONG.
I'LL READ ONE OF THEM TO YOU.
THIS IS FROM JOSH MATLOW, A
TORONTO CITY COUNCILLOR, SAYING...

A tweet by Josh Matlow appears on screen. It reads "The Doug Ford government has announced the return of OMB rules, and a handover of the planning process to the development industry and their lobbyists – making life less affordable for residents and ensuring needed services and infrastructure won't keep up with the pace of growth."

Steve says I'LL JUST ASK THE
QUESTION DIRECTLY: HAVE YOU MADE
IT TOO EASY FOR DEVELOPERS AT
THE EXPENSE OF RESIDENTS?

The caption changes to "Steve Clark, @SteveClarkPC."
Then, it changes again to "Too much power to developers?"

Clark says COUNCILLOR MATTLOW IS WRONG.
I HOPE HE WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF A TECHNICAL BRIEFING THAT MY
STAFF WOULD PROVIDE.
WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME LISTENING
TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.
MUNICIPALITIES, PEOPLE WHO BUILD
HOMES, ADVOCATES, ORGANIZATIONS
WHO HAVE AN INTEREST... WE WANT
PARTNERS.
WE WANT PARTNERS, WHETHER THEY
BE PEOPLE THAT BUILD HOMES,
MUNICIPALITIES, THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT, NON-PROFITS, CO-OPS,
ANYONE IN THE HOUSING SPACE THAT
WANTS TO CREATE THAT
OPPORTUNITY, WE'LL WORK WITH
THEM.
AND SO TO SAY THAT WE'RE SLANTED
TOWARDS ONE PARTICULAR SECTOR IS
ABSOLUTELY WRONG, AND I THINK
ANYONE WHO HAS ACTUALLY LOOKED
AT THE BILL, ACTUALLY TALKED TO
OUR OFFICIALS ABOUT SOME OF THE
INTENT ON WHY WE'RE
ACCOMPLISHING WHAT WE'RE TRYING
TO ACCOMPLISH THROUGH THE BILL
WILL REALIZE THAT I THINK WE'VE
STRUCK THAT BALANCE.
I TRULY BELIEVE WE'VE GOT A
BALANCED BILL THAT MEASURES ALL
THE INTERESTS BUT DOES IT IN A
COLLABORATIVE WAY.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GO BACK AND
LOOK AT OUR CONSULTATIONS, WE
HAVE FIVE THEMES: COST, SPEED,
MIX, INNOVATION, AND RENT.
AND WE RECEIVED OVER 2,000
SUBMISSIONS.
85 PERCENT OF THEM WERE FROM THE
PUBLIC.
SO THERE WAS NOT ONE SECTOR THAT
DOMINATED THE CONSULTATION.
NOT ONE SECTOR DOMINATED OUR
ROUND TABLES THAT WE HAD IN
RIDINGS ALL ACROSS THE PROVINCE.
SO FOR OUR CRITICS TO SAY THAT
WE WERE SLANTED TO PEOPLE THAT
BUILD HOMES, THAT'S NOT TRUE.
BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?
PEOPLE THAT BUILD HOMES ARE A
VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THE
SYSTEM.
THEY'RE THERE TO HELP THAT YOUNG
COUPLE REALIZE THEIR DREAM OF
HOME OWNERSHIP.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says I HEAR YOU.
THEY'RE GOING FURTHER THAN THAT,
YOUR CRITICS.
THEY'RE SAYING NOT ONLY ARE YOU
SKEWING TOWARDS DEVELOPERS, IT'S
THE DEVELOPERS AS OPPOSED TO
NEIGHBOURS OR RESIDENTIAL
GROUPS, THAT MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS
TO YOUR POLITICAL PARTY AND YOUR CAMPAIGN.

Clark says THAT'S NOT TRUE.
THE HOUSING SUPPLY ACTION PLAN
WAS ONE OF THE MOST
COLLABORATIVE PROCESSES.
WE ENSURED THAT EVERY TIME WE
WERE GIVEN A GOOD SUGGESTION, WE
ACTED ON IT.
LOOK AT WHAT I DID A MONTH AGO
WITH THE COMMUNITY HOUSING
RENEWAL PLAN.
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A VERY CLEAR
SIGNAL TO PEOPLE THAT AFFORDABLE
HOUSING AND HOUSING TO DEAL WITH
OUR MOST VULNERABLE WAS A
PRIORITY.
YOU KNOW, I ANNOUNCED IT FIRST.
I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH
THOSE SERVICE MANAGERS,
NOT-FOR-PROFITS, CO-OPS, TO TRY
TO HOUSE SOME OF OUR MOST
VULNERABLE, AND I TOOK THE
APPROACH THAT I WANTED TO
LEVERAGE EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR IN
THE SYSTEM.
THE HOUSING SUPPLY ACTION PLAN
IS THE SAME.
WE'VE ENSURED THAT ALL FIVE
THEMES, THERE'S SOMETHING IN
THERE FOR EVERYONE, AND THE
GUIDE THAT I AGAIN LOOK AT...
THE PEOPLE THAT I WANT TO SPEAK
TO IS THAT YOUNG COUPLE, THAT
RIGHT NOW CAN'T REALIZE THE
DREAM OF HOME OWNERSHIP.
I WANT THEM TO REALIZE THEIR
DREAM.
TO THE SENIOR THAT PERHAPS WANTS
TO DOWNSIZE AND HAVE ANOTHER
OPPORTUNITY IN A DIFFERENT TYPE
OF LOCATION OR A DIFFERENT TYPE
OF HOUSING, HAS THAT OPTION.
THE UNIVERSITY STUDENT.
THE COUPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, LIVE
IN A 700 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT
WITH A COUPLE OF KIDS WHO WANT
TO HAVE SOMETHING BETTER, MAYBE
NEAR A SCHOOL OR NEAR TRANSIT.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
BILL IS BALANCED AND PROVIDES
THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE.
AND I... I CHALLENGE MY CRITICS,
IF THEY REALLY WANT TO SIT DOWN
AND TALK ABOUT WHAT'S IN THIS
BILL, I THINK WE CAN SHOW THEM
HOW WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE
SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE.

Steve says HERE'S THE FOLLOW-UP
QUESTION, WHICH IS:
INTENSIFICATION SEEMS TO BE THE
WORD OF THE DAY CERTAINLY IN
URBAN AREAS, AS OPPOSED TO, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE HATE THIS WORD OR
AT LEAST THE DEVELOPMENT
INDUSTRY HATES THIS WORD,
SPRAWL.
INSTEAD OF SPRAWLING OUT
FURTHER, INTENSIFY THE CITY, THE
SERVICES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE
SO...
THE QUESTION IS: SHOULD YOU, IN
THIS DAY AND AGE, GIVEN HOW
EXPENSIVE IT IS TO PUT IN SEWER
SYSTEMS AND WATER, ALL THAT
STUFF, ALL THOSE SERVICES,
SHOULD YOU STILL BE ABLE TO BUY
AN 8,000 SQUARE FOOT
THREE-CAR-GARAGE HOME AN HOUR
NORTH OF HERE?

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Clark says THE PLAN PROVIDES FOR A MIX
OF HOUSING.
I'M NOT GOING TO DENY THAT.
BUT UNIFORM... ANY TIME WE WERE
AT AN EVENT, ANY TIME WE DID A
ROUND TABLE, IT WAS UNANIMOUS:
PEOPLE WANT US TO INTENSIFY
AROUND TRANSIT.
PEOPLE WANT THAT DENSITY
INCREASE TO BE ABOUT AROUND
TRANSIT.
OUR PLAN PROVIDES THAT.
IT WAS CERTAINLY REFLECTED IN
ROUND TABLES WE HAD AS PART OF
THE GROWTH PLAN FOR THE GREATER
GOLDEN HORSESHOE.
IT CAME UP.
YOU TALKED TO SOME OF OUR GTA
MPPs.
IT CAME UP AT ALMOST EVERY ONE
OF THEIR ROUND TABLES.
IF WE'RE GOING TO INTENSIFY AND
WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE THAT
HIGHER DENSITY, IT HAS TO BE
AROUND TRANSIT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO
ACT ON.

Steve says DO YOU PLAN TO ALLOW
MORE DEVELOPMENT IN THE GREEN BELT?

The caption changes to "The greenbelt."

Clark says NO.
THAT'S ONE THING I SAID AT OUR
ANNOUNCEMENT LAST THURSDAY AND
I'LL SAY AGAIN ON YOUR SHOW.
YOU KNOW, THE PREMIER HAS BEEN
VERY CLEAR.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO DEVELOP IN
THE GREEN BELT.
WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT IT IN ITS
ENTIRETY.
THERE ARE NO POLICIES THAT ARE
IN THE MORE HOMES MORE CHOICE
BILL.
THERE ARE NO POLICIES THAT ARE
IN THE GROWTH PLAN FOR THE
GREATER GOLDEN HORSESHOE THAT
TOUCH THE GREEN BELT NEGATIVELY
IN ANY WAY.

Steve says YOU SAY... YOU SAY
THE PREMIER'S BEEN CLEAR,
EXCEPT, YOU KNOW, HE KIND OF
HASN'T BEEN CLEAR.
DURING THE CAMPAIGN HE SAID HE
WAS OPEN TO IT.
HE THEN CHANGED HIS MIND THE
NEXT DAY.
SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT
PEOPLE MAY FEEL THAT MAYBE HE'S
NOT SURE ON THIS.

Clark says NO, HE'S BEEN VERY CLEAR AND
I'VE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT WE ARE
NOT GOING TO DEVELOP IN THE
GREEN BELT, FULL STOP.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Steve says OKAY.
WHERE DO WE WANT TO GO NEXT?
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES.

Clark says YES.

Steve says HOW DO YOU PLAN TO
STREAMLINE THE ROLE THAT THEY
PLAY IN WHERE HOUSES OUGHT TO BE
ALLOWED TO BE BUILT?

The caption changes to "Changes to Conservation authorities."

Clark says WELL, I'VE SPOKEN TO A NUMBER
OF CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES
ABOUT THE PERMITTING PROCESS,
AND I BELIEVE THAT IN
CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, THEY
WANT TO BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS.
THEY WANT TO BE PART OF A MORE
STREAMLINED PROCESS.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME ENSURING
THAT THOSE ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTIONS ARE THERE.
THE CHALLENGE THAT YOU HAVE IS
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES CAN BE
QUITE DIFFERENT.
IN MY RIDING, I HAVE THREE OF
THEM.
THEY OPERATE COMPLETELY
DIFFERENTLY.
ONE VERY MUCH OPEN FOR BUSINESS,
VERY MUCH PROVIDING VERY STRONG
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS.
WE HAD OUR PORT EXPANSION IN
JOHNSTOWN.
THEY WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE
MUNICIPALITY TO EXPAND THE PORT
BUT AT THE SAME TIME PROTECT
FISH SPECIES.
SO THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT.
I'VE GOT ANOTHER ONE, NOT SO
MUCH.
THEY'VE GOT AWAY FROM THAT
ORIGINAL FLOOD PROTECTION
MANDATE.
SO THE SECTIONS IN OUR BILL THAT
DEAL WITH CONSERVATION
AUTHORITIES I THINK TRY TO
PROVIDE TRANSPARENCY, OPENNESS,
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE NEED
THE PRIORITY ON THOSE
PROTECTION-TYPE PROGRAMS, THINGS
LIKE FLOOD MITIGATION, AND WE
WANT TO...

Steve says KIND OF A GOOD TIME
TO GET THAT MESSAGE THROUGH,
DON'T YOU THINK, AFTER WHAT HAS
GONE ON?

Clark says AS MINISTER WHO HAS TO
ACTIVATE DISASTER ASSISTANCE
PROGRAMS, HAVING A CONSERVATION
AUTHORITY DEAL WITH FLOOD
MITIGATION, ESPECIALLY THROUGH
LEGISLATION LIKE A HOUSING
SUPPLY ACTION PLAN IS VERY IMPORTANT.
I HAPPEN TO THINK WE CAN STRIKE
A BALANCE AND THIS LEGISLATION
DOES STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN
THOSE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS
AND HAVING STRONG ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTIONS BUT AT THE SAME TIME
HAVING A STRONG ECONOMY.
I THINK YOU CAN HAVE PROTECTIONS
FOR FLOODS AND PROTECTIONS FOR
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES, BUT AT
THE SAME TIME, HAVE A SYSTEM
WHERE YOU CAN GET ACTUAL HOMES
BUILT FOR PEOPLE THAT NEED THEM.

Steve says OKAY.
THAT'S YOU AS MINISTER OF
HOUSING.
NOW I WANT TO ASK YOU SOME
QUESTIONS AS YOU, MINISTER OF MF
MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS.

Clark says OKAY.
ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says YOU WERE A MAYOR
ONCE UPON A TIME.

Clark says MAYOR AND CAO.

Steve says MAYOR OF BROCKVILLE.

Clark says CORRECT.

Steve says AT WHAT AGE?

Clark says 22 YEARS, ONE DAY.

Steve says WERE YOU THE
YOUNGEST MAYOR EVER?

Clark says AT THE TIME, YES.
I'M SURE I'M UP THERE WITH...
I'M OLDER NOW.

Steve says AREN'T WE ALL?
HERE'S THE QUESTION, THOUGH: IF
THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT OF THE
DAY, WHEN YOU WERE THE MAYOR OF
BROCKVILLE, AFTER YOU HAD JUST
PASSED YOUR BUDGET, HAD COME TO
YOU AND SAID, "OH, INCIDENTALLY,
WE'RE GOING TO CUT SEVERAL
MILLION DOLLARS OF MONEY WE USED
TO GIVE YOU FOR THINGS LIKE
PUBLIC HEALTH OUT OF YOUR BUDGET
AND YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IT AND
SHUT UP ABOUT IT," HOW WOULD YOU
HAVE REACTED?

The caption changes to "Cities versus the province."

Clark says WHEN I WAS MAYOR I WAS ALSO
PRESIDENT OF AMO AND I DEALT
WITH A LOT OF PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENTS.
IN FACT, I'M ONE OF THE PEOPLE
WHO CAN SAY THAT IN MY NINE
YEARS AS MAYOR, I DEALT WITH ALL
THREE PARTIES WHO HAD THE REINS
OF POWER PROVINCIALLY AND I
DEALT WITH TWO PARTIES FEDERALLY
OVER THOSE SAME NINE YEARS.
I'VE DEALT WITH LOTS OF
DIFFERENT PARTIES.
I HAD THINGS THAT I LIKED AND
THINGS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE, LIKE
MOST MAYORS.
YOU'RE ALWAYS ADVOCATING FOR
YOUR COMMUNITIES.
AND I EXPECT THAT MAYORS AND
COUNCILLORS WILL CONTINUE TO
ADVOCATE FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES.
WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN PLACE WITH
MYSELF AS MINISTER, A VERY
ROBUST SYSTEM OF CONSULTATION,
BOTH WITH...

Steve says NOT ON THIS.
NOT ON THIS ONE.

Clark says WELL, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT
TO SAY, AND I'M NOT GOING TO...
I HAVE A CONFIDENTIAL PROCESS
WITH AMO WHERE WE MEET EVERY
MONTH, I MOVED IT BACK TO EVERY
MONTH, THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT
DID EVERY TWO MONTHS.
WE ALSO HAVE A CONFIDENTIAL
PROCESS AT THE STAFF LEVEL AND
THE MINISTRY LEVEL WITH THE CITY
OF TORONTO.
THE LAST THING I'M GOING TO DO,
STEVE, IS BREAK CONFIDENTIALITY
ON EITHER THE AMO MOU PROCESS OR
THE CITY OF TORONTO PROCESS.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT PRIOR TO
TABLING LEGISLATION AND PRIOR TO
ANNOUNCING CHANGES IN POLICY, WE
ENSURE THAT THOSE THINGS ARE
DISCUSSED AT THAT LEVEL.
SO WE HAVE A CONSULTATION
PROCESS.
NOT TO SAY THAT IT CAN'T BE
IMPROVED, AND TO GO BACK TO WHEN
I WAS MAYOR, WE HAD A SITUATION
WITH THE PETERSON GOVERNMENT
WHERE THEY FROZE UNCONDITIONAL
GRANTS AND WE HAD... I GUESS I
WAS THE RING LEADER IN HAVING A
MEETING OF ALL THE MAYORS.
IT RESULTED IN A NEW
PROVINCIAL-MUNICIPAL
CONSULTATION FRAMEWORK BEING
NEGOTIATED.
SO I HAVE TOLD DIFFERENT MAYORS
THAT HAVE HAD A COMPLAINT ABOUT
OUR CONSULTATION SYSTEM, I'M
OPEN TO HEAR THEIR SUGGESTIONS,
BUT...

Steve says IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU'RE SAYING, THOUGH, THAT YOU
GAVE THEM A HEADS UP THAT THESE
CUTS WOULD BE COMING AND, YOU
KNOW, THE GUY WHO IS THE HEAD OF
LUMCO, THE MAYOR OF GUELPH, THE
CITY OF TORONTO, THEY'VE ALL
SAID YOU SPRUNG THESE CUTS ON
THEM, TENS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS, WITH NO ADVANCED
HEADS-UP AT ALL.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT'S NOT TRUE?

Clark says I AM NOT GOING TO... AGAIN,
I'M NOT GOING TO BETRAY A
CONFIDENTIAL PROCESS THAT WE SET
UP WITH THEM.
LUMCO HAS A SEAT AT THE AMO MOU
TABLE, AS DO ALL
ORGANIZATIONS... THEY ALL HAVE A
SEAT AT THE TABLE.
WE HAVE MONTHLY MEETINGS WHERE
WE TALK ABOUT PROGRAMS AND
POLICIES AND LEGISLATION PRIOR
TO THEM BEING INTRODUCED.
SO THE PROCESS IS THERE.
I THINK IT'S WORKING WELL.
IF THERE ARE SOME SUGGESTIONS TO
IMPROVE THEM, I'M ALL EARS.

Steve says ONE LAST THING, AND
THAT IS, YOU WERE THE GUY WHO
HAD CARRIAGE OF SO-CALLED BILL 5
THAT CUT TORONTO CITY COUNCIL IN
HALF, BASICALLY.

Clark says I WAS.

Steve says THAT WAS A HELL OF A
STORM AT THE TIME.
THREATS OF USING THE
NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE OF THE
CONSTITUTION AND SO ON.
YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE A YEAR
LATER.
WAS IT ALL WORTH IT?
DO YOU THINK IT'S WORKED OUT?

Clark says I THINK IT WAS A POSITIVE
PROCESS.
WE DIDN'T USE THE
NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE.

Steve says I KNOW.
THREATENED TO.

Clark says BILL 5 WAS ALWAYS SET UP TO
MAKE COUNCIL IN TORONTO MORE
EFFECTIVE AND MORE EFFICIENT.

Steve says DO YOU THINK IT IS...

Clark says MORE RESPONSIVE TO THE NEEDS.
I THINK IT'S A LOT BETTER THAN
IT WAS PRIOR TO BILL 5.
I THINK THERE ARE MANY CRITICS
WHO BELIEVE THAT WE ACCOMPLISHED
WHAT WE SET OUT TO DO.
IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN SOME OF
THE OTHER ISSUES THAT I
MENTIONED AT THAT TIME, THINGS
LIKE THAT WE WANTED TO WORK
TOGETHER TO BUILD HOUSING AND TO
BUILD TRANSIT AND TO FIX
INFRASTRUCTURE.
THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON THOSE
THREE ASPECTS.
BUT I STILL REMAIN VERY
OPTIMISTIC, AS MINISTER OF
HOUSING, THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO
WORK WITH THE MAYOR AND THE
COUNCIL HERE IN TORONTO TO BUILD
THE RIGHT TYPE OF HOUSING IN THE
RIGHT PLACE AT A PRICE THAT
PEOPLE CAN AFFORD.
AND I KNOW THAT MINISTER
MCNAUGHTON AND THE
INFRASTRUCTURE FILE OBVIOUSLY
WITH THE UPLOAD, HE HAS A BILL
BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE THAT I
THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE
CITY'S FUTURE, AND WE'VE GOT A
PREMIER, QUITE FRANKLY, AND I'VE
SAID THIS MANY, MANY TIMES,
AROUND THE BILL 5 DEBATE, WHO
LOVES THIS CITY.
HE LOVES THE CITY OF TORONTO.
HE SERVED HERE AS A COUNCILLOR.
HIS BROTHER WAS THE MAYOR.
HE REALLY WANTS TO SEE THE BEST
FOR THE CITY.
SO PEOPLE CAN ARGUE HOW WE DEALT
WITH BILL 5 AT THE TIME, HOW WE
PASSED BILL 5.
BUT NOW, LOOKING SINCE THE
OCTOBER ELECTION, THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT
WE DID THE RIGHT THING.
I APPRECIATE THAT.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_OConnor."

Steve says THAT'S STEVE CLARK,
HE'S ONTARIO'S MINISTER OF
MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOUSING
AND THE PC MEMBER FOR
LEEDS-GRENVILLE-THOUSAND ISLANDS
AND DON'T FORGET RIDEAU LAKES.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Clark says DON'T FORGET THEM.

Steve says THANKS A LOT FOR
COMING INTO TVO TONIGHT.

Clark says IT'S A PLEASURE. THANK YOU.

Watch: Rethinking Ontario's Housing Supply