Transcript: Ontario Under Water | May 01, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a black suit, white shirt, and spotted purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "Ontario under water. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says HOMES, BUSINESSES,
COTTAGES: UNDERWATER, AS RAIN
AND THE SPRING THAW CONTINUE TO
RESULT IN RISING WATER LEVELS
FROM BRACEBRIDGE TO OTTAWA, AND
POINTS BEYOND THAT AS WELL.
IN RECENT YEARS, THAT LIST ALSO
INCLUDED PLACES SUCH AS
BRANTFORD, TORONTO AND WINDSOR.
WHAT'S GOING ON, AND DO WE HAVE
THE RIGHT PLANS IN PLACE TO DEAL
WITH FLOODING ON THE SCALE WE'VE
SEEN RECENTLY?
LET'S FIND OUT WITH:
DREW DILKENS, HE'S THE MAYOR OF
WINDSOR...

Drew is in his late forties, clean-shaven and bald. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and plaid tie.

Steve continues BARBARA ROBINSON, PRESIDENT, NORTON ENGINEERING...

Barbara is in her fifties, with short chestnut hair. She's wearing a blue blazer and a white shirt.

Steve continues GLENN McGILLVRAY, MANAGING
DIRECTOR FOR THE INSTITUTE FOR
CATASTROPHIC LOSS REDUCTION...

Glenn is in his late forties, with short gray hair and a trimmed goatee. He's wearing a blue suit, striped blue shirt, and checked black tie.

Steve continues BONNIE FOX, MANAGER OF POLICY AND PLANNING WITH CONSERVATION ONTARIO...

Bonnie is in her late fifties, with blond hair in a bob and bangs. She's wearing glasses, a black blazer and a blue scarf.

Steve continues AND ANDREA MINANO, PhD CANDIDATE
AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO
AND MANAGER OF THE FLOOD POLICY RESEARCH GROUP.

Andrea is in her twenties, with long straight brown hair with highlights. She's wearing rounded glasses, a beige sweater and a black shirt.

Steve continues I WELCOME ALL OF YOU TO TVO TONIGHT.
BUT BEFORE WE GET STARTED WITH
THIS GANG, WE'RE JOINED ON THE
LINE FROM OTTAWA BY
MATT McKECHNIE, WHOSE HOME IS
CURRENTLY PARTIALLY SUBMERGED IN
WATERS OVERFLOWING THE BANKS OF
THE OTTAWA RIVER.

Matt is in his forties, with a full beard. He's wearing glasses, a black and white cap, and a lumberjack sweater.

Steve continues YOU KNOW, WHAT DO I SAY? I WISH WE WERE SPEAKING ON
HAPPIER CIRCUMSTANCES, MATT, BUT
WE'RE GRATEFUL YOU COULD SPARE
SOME TIME FOR US BY COMING TO
OTTAWA AND TELLING US ABOUT YOUR
SITUATION.
BEFORE WE START CHATTING, LET'S
SHOW SOME VIDEO HERE FOR PEOPLE
CATCHING UP ON THIS STORY SO
THEY CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN
PARTS OF THE PROVINCE.
SHELDON, ROLL THE VIDEO, IF YOU
WOULD?

A clip plays on screen with the caption "April 29, 2019."
In the clip, a flooded river rushes under a large metal bridge.

Steve continues THAT'S THE CHAUDIERE BRIDGE.
IT CONNECTS OTTAWA AND GATINEAU
AND OFFICIALS HAVE CLOSED IT TO
PEDESTRIANS AND TRAFFIC.

Now footage shows a flooded park.

Steve continues THIS IS ALSO IN OTTAWA.
BRITANNIA PARK WHERE THERE'S
BEEN QUITE EXTENSIVE FLOODING.
OTTAWA HAS DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY.

Aerial footage shows flooded forests and residential areas.

Steve continues LET'S KEEP GOING.
NOW CENTRAL ONTARIO.
WE'RE LOOKING AT AN AERIAL VIEW
OF BRACE BRIDGE.
100 SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED
IN BRACEBRIDGE, ONTARIO.

Footage shows a flooded town and an overflowing lake.

Steve continues THIS IS THE SCENE IN MUSKOKA
LAKES WHERE ONE OF THE STREETS,
RIVER STREET, WAS CERTAINLY
LIVING UP TO ITS NAME.
THE AREA IS FACING MORE RAINFALL
WARNINGS AND LIKE OTTAWA HAS
DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY.
ALL RIGHT.
THAT'S THE SCENE THERE.
MATT, WHY DON'T YOU GIVE US THE
411 ON WHAT'S HAPPENED IN YOUR
SITUATION?

The caption changes to "Matt McKechnie. Homeowner."
Then, it changes again to "Facing the floods."

Matt says WELL, YEAH. I LIVE IN GATINEAU, AND OUR
HOUSE WAS COMPLETELY FLOODED.
IT STARTED JUST BEFORE EASTER
WEEKEND, AND WE WERE GIVEN AN
EVACUATION NOTICE I THINK ON
EASTER FRIDAY, GOOD FRIDAY, AND
SO WE TOOK OUR 2-YEAR-OLD
DAUGHTER, WENT BACK TO MY
PARENTS' HOUSE IN NEPEAN, AND
WE'VE BASICALLY BEEN THERE SINCE
BECAUSE THE WATER HAS RISEN SO
HIGH THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO
EVEN GET ANYWHERE CLOSE TO OUR HOUSE.

A picture shows a house surrounded by murky green water.

Matt continues THE LAST TIME WE CHECKED, IT WAS
4 and a half FEET HIGH FROM THE STREET.
NOW THEY'RE SAYING IT COULD GET
AS HIGH AS THE COUNTERTOPS IN
OUR KITCHEN, AND THE WATER MAY
STAY FOR A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER
THAT.

Steve says I WAS GOING TO SAY.
WE JUST SAW A PICTURE OF IT,
AND, BOY, MATT, I DON'T WANT TO
BE THE BEARER OF BAD NEWS, BUT
ARE YOU EVER GOING TO GET BACK
IN THAT HOUSE?
THAT WATER LOOKS AWFULLY HIGH.

Matt says IT DOES LOOK HIGH.
I DON'T THINK WE ARE.
I DON'T THINK WE ARE.
THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE... WE
WERE SORT OF RENTING TO OWN IT.
AND THE OWNER SAID THAT HE,
AFTER REDOING IT AND GUTTING IT
COMPLETELY AND RENOVATING IT
AFTER THE 2017 FLOOD, HE DOESN'T
WANT TO KEEP IT.
SO HE'LL PROBABLY... IT'LL
PROBABLY BE DESTROYED, WHICH IS
SAD, BECAUSE IT'S A BEAUTIFUL
HOUSE.
THERE WAS NATURE ALL AROUND AND
THE RIVER IS RIGHT THERE, WOODS,
EVERYTHING.
IT WAS A GREAT SPOT.

Steve says HOW MUCH NOTICE WERE
YOU GIVEN THAT YOU HAD TO GET OUT?

The caption changes to "Matt McKechnie, @gravencanada."

Matt says ABOUT 24 HOURS.
LIKE, WE KNEW THAT SOMETHING WAS
HAPPENING AND THEN THEY STARTED
HANDING OUT NOTICES.
ON THURSDAY BEFORE EASTER WE
KIND OF GOT THE INKLING THAT
LOTS OF STUFF WAS GOING ON.
PEOPLE WERE WALKING DOWN THE
STREET PUTTING STAKES ON
DIFFERENT PROPERTIES SO I GUESS
THEY COULD TEST THE WATER
LEVELS, AND AT THAT POINT, WE
WERE JUST SORT OF WAITING AND WE
THOUGHT AT THAT POINT... WE HAD
HEARD FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND
DIFFERENT CITY OFFICIALS THAT IT
MIGHT JUST BE PRECAUTIONARY
BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN
2017, SO NOT TO GET TOO WORRIED.
BUT THEN IT... YOU KNOW, THE
NEXT DAY IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT
SOMETHING BAD WAS GOING TO
HAPPEN.
SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT
AROUND.
WE HAVE A 2-AND-A-HALF-YEAR-OLD
DAUGHTER, SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO
WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
NIGHT WITH A FOOT OF WATER IN
OUR HOUSE OR SOMETHING AND HAVE
TO GET OUT THEN.
SO WE GOT OUT BEFORE AND, YEAH,
IT LOOKS... WE HAVEN'T BEEN BACK
SINCE.
YOU CAN'T GET CLOSE TO THE
PROPERTY.
IT LOOKS PRETTY BAD FROM THE
PHOTOS.

Steve says HOW MUCH OF YOUR
STUFF WERE YOU ABLE TO SAVE?

Matt says THAT'S THE THING, STEVE.
WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE BECAUSE WE
CAN'T GET BACK TO THE PROPERTY.
WE MOVED A BUNCH OF STUFF
UPSTAIRS THAT WERE VALUABLES AND
SOME KEEPSAKES AND THINGS THAT
MEANT A LOT TO US.
THE WATER I DON'T THINK IS GOING
TO REACH THE SECOND LEVEL.
IF IT DOES, THAT MEANS THAT ALL
OF OTTAWA WOULD BE FLOODED.
I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO GET
THAT HIGH.
BUT WE MOVED A LOT UPSTAIRS, BUT
SOME STUFF WE PUT... YOU KNOW,
WE KEPT IN BINS ON TOP OF THE
COUNTERS DOWNSTAIRS BECAUSE WE
WERE ON A TIME CLOCK AND SO WE
KIND OF HAD TO GO.
SO SOME THINGS DOWNSTAIRS, A FEW
LITTLE THINGS IN THE GARAGE...
THE HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE A
BASEMENT, SO IT'S ON A CONCRETE
SLAB.
BUT WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.
UNTIL WE GET BACK TO TAKE A LOOK
AND SORT OF SEE AND SURVEY THE
DAMAGE, WE WON'T KNOW WHAT WE'VE
LOST.

Steve says THE PICTURE WE SAW
OF YOUR HOME WAS JUST OF YOUR
HOME.
WE COULDN'T TELL IF YOU HAD
NEIGHBOURS THAT WERE IN A
SIMILAR SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES.
DO YOU KNOW IF THAT IS THE CASE?

Matt says YES.
THERE ARE OTHER HOMES.
OURS IS ONE OF THE LOWER ONES ON
THE STREET.
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 2017 IS A
LOT OF HOMES IN THE AREA WERE
GIVEN MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT
TO RENOVATE AND WHAT A LOT OF
THEM DID WAS JACK UP THEIR
FOUNDATIONS BY A FEW FEET.
SO SOME OF THE HOMES IN THAT
AREA ARE HIGHER.
BUT THE WATER IS STILL... I
MEAN, AS YOU CAN TELL FROM THAT
PHOTO, YOU CAN'T SEE... YOU
SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE A LAWN IN
THAT PHOTO, A ROAD, OUR
DRIVEWAY, WHICH IS A HIGH
DRIVEWAY.
IT ACTUALLY GOES UP.
IT HAS A BIT OF A SLOPE TO IT.
SO YOU CAN'T SEE ANY OF THAT.
I KNOW THE WHOLE REGION IS
STRUGGLING AND ALL OF...
ESPECIALLY OUR STREET IN
GATINEAU IS HAVING TOUGH TIMES.

Steve says NOW, JUST HELP ME
UNDERSTAND THIS: BECAUSE YOU
WERE RENTING AND TECHNICALLY NOT
YET THE OWNER OF THE PLACE, DID
YOU HAVE INSURANCE OR DID THE
OWNER HAVE INSURANCE, AND HOW IS
ALL THAT BEING HANDLED?

Matt says NO.
WHAT HAPPENED WAS, WE HAD TENANT
INSURANCE, WHICH WE THOUGHT
WOULD COVER US BECAUSE WE WERE
RENTING.
SO THAT USUALLY WOULD COVER YOUR
CONTENTS DURING SPECIFIC THINGS.
BUT IN QUEBEC, THERE'S NO WAY
THAT YOU CAN BE A TENANT OR A
RENTER OF A HOME AND BE COVERED
BY FLOOD INSURANCE.
SO THERE WAS AN EXCLUSION IN THE
POLICY ABOUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH
FLOODS, OF COURSE IT WAS SUPER
SMALL AND HIDDEN AWAY IN A SMALL
PART.
SO WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT
UNTIL I HAD TO CALL THE
INSURANCE COMPANY TO SAY, HEY,
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH OUR
STUFF?
LIKE, WE'RE BEING FLOODED.
AND THEY WERE BASICALLY... THEY
BASICALLY SAID SOMETHING TO THE
TUNE OF, OH, YEAH, IT'S A FLOOD.
WE CAN'T COVER ANYTHING TO DO
WITH FLOODS SO...

Steve says SO WHATEVER YOU'VE
LOST YOU'RE ON THE HOOK FOR?

Matt says EXACTLY.
THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says I HEAR THAT YOU'RE
DOING A GOFUNDME PAGE IN ORDER
TO KIND OF HELP DEFRAY YOUR LOSSES.
HOW IS THAT GOING?

Matt says THAT'S RIGHT.
IT IS GOING AMAZINGLY WELL SO FAR.
LIKE, WE'RE SO BLOWN AWAY BY ALL
THE GENEROSITY OF PEOPLE.
PEOPLE REALLY WANTED TO STEP
FORWARD AND HELP AND
SPECIFICALLY I THINK PEOPLE WHO
HAVE HAD FLOODS HAPPEN BEFORE
WHO HAVE DEALT WITH INSURANCE.
IT'S A COMMON THING, I GUESS,
THAT INSURANCE FOR TENANTS...
REALLY ONLY HOME OWNERS ARE
COVERED DURING A FLOOD, AND I
THINK YOU HAVE TO GET A SEPARATE
FLOOD WAIVER OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
IT'S NOT EASY AND IT'S KIND OF
COMPLEX.
SO, YEAH.
WE'VE BEEN VERY HAPPY WITH THE
PROGRESS OF THE GOFUNDME, AND
PEOPLE ARE REALLY GIVING AND
QUICKLY TOO, FROM PLACES YOU'D
NEVER EXPECT... PEOPLE YOU'D
NEVER EXPECT, PEOPLE YOU DON'T
EVEN KNOW.
LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE SHARED IT.
SO WE'VE BEEN REALLY, YOU KNOW,
FLOORED BY THAT.
IT'S BEEN AMAZING.

Steve says GOOD TO HEAR.
LET ME ASK YOU ONE LAST
QUESTION, MATT, BECAUSE WE'RE
GRATEFUL FOR THE TIME THAT
YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO SPARE FOR US.
ARE YOU HANGING IN THERE?

Matt says YEAH, WE ARE, FOR SURE.
IT'S BEEN KIND OF NICE BECAUSE
MY DAUGHTER HAS SPENT A LOT OF
TIME WITH HER GRANDPARENTS, MY
PARENTS AND... THEY LIVE IN NEPEAN.
SO WE'VE KIND OF TAKEN OVER
THEIR HOUSE AND IT'S SORT OF
BECOME LIKE A BIT OF HANG-OUT
TIME FOR HER.
YEAH, THAT PART HAS BEEN REALLY
NICE AND WE JUST KIND OF ARE...
MY PARTNER GILLIAN AND I ARE
GETTING OUR STRENGTH FROM SEEING
SLOAN AND ALL THAT STUFF...
SLOAN IS OUR DAUGHTER... JUST
SEEING HOW SHE IS JUST HAPPY,
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST COME
FORWARD REALLY JUST WANTING TO
HELP.
SO THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME.
AND IN ANY SITUATION, YOU KNOW,
YOU CAN ALWAYS LOOK AT ALL OF
THE NEGATIVES, WHICH THERE ARE A
TON OF IN THIS SITUATION, BUT WE
ARE REALLY TRYING TO STAY
POSITIVE AND BEING GRATEFUL FOR
WHAT WE DO HAVE.

Steve says GOOD FOR YOU.
WE WISH YOU THE BEST, OKAY?
AND THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US TONIGHT ON TVO, MATT.

Matt says THANKS, STEVE.
TAKE CARE.

Steve says ALL THE BEST TO YOU.
OKAY.
MATT McKECHNIE, GATINEAU, FROM
OTTAWA.
GLENN, LET ME COME TO YOU FIRST
ON THIS.
HOW COMMON ARE STORIES LIKE THE
ONE WE JUST HEARD?

The caption changes to "Glenn McGillvray. Institute for Catastrophic Loss Reduction."

Glenn says UNFORTUNATELY FAR TOO COMMON.
WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE WHO HAVE
BEEN FLOODED IN TWO YEARS,
OTTAWA, MONTREAL, GATINEAU,
PLACES LIKE THAT.
IN NEW BRUNSWICK WE ARE SEEING
PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN FLOODED
TWICE IN ONE YEAR.
THIS IS RIVER FLOODING.
IN WINDSOR, NOT TOO LONG AGO,
TWO BIG EVENTS IN JUST UNDER 12
MONTHS.
HEAVY RAINFALL IN TORONTO.
HEAVY RAINFALL IN BURLINGTON,
BRANTFORD... YOU NAME IT.
THE LIST IS LONG AND GROWING ALL
THE TIME.

Steve says SO THESE ARE...

Glenn says VERY COMMON.

Steve says SO THESE ARE
UNUSUALLY REPETITIVE WEATHER
CIRCUMSTANCES; SHALL WE PUT IT
THAT WAY?

Glenn says I'M REALLY CAREFUL TO SAY THAT.
WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING
TODAY, THIS IS THE SPRING
FRECHETTE AND IT'S BEEN GOING ON
SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME.
WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW
WE SAY, YOU KNOW, WELL, THIS IS
REAL EXTRAORDINARY.
BECAUSE WHEN WE DO THAT, WE
TREAT IT WITH... WE HAVE TO
TREAT IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND
JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS
COMMON.
GETTING MORE COMMON, IT SEEMS.
AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING
ABOUT IT.
BUT TO SAY IT'S EXTRAORDINARY,
WE REALLY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.

Steve says FAIR POINT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE MONITORS HERE
IN THE STUDIO, SHELDON, CAN I
ASK YOU TO BRING THE MAP UP NEXT?
THIS IS FLOODING IN TORONTO AS
OF JUST THE OTHER DAY.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Flooding in Ontario. April 30, 2019."

A map of Ontario appears, with certain areas painted in red, for flood warning, and certain areas painted in orange, for flood watch. The southern lakeshore areas like Windsor and Toronto are painted orange. Ottawa and the north are red.

Steve continues I WILL DESCRIBE THIS A BIT FOR PEOPLE LISTENING ON PODCAST.
THE RED SPLOTCHES ON THE MAP
WHICH GO ALL THE WAY UP TO
HUDSON'S BAY, JAMES BAY, COMING
ALL THE WAY DOWN PAST TIMMINS,
HUNTSVILLE, OTTAWA, THAT BIG RED
SWATH IS FLOOD WARNING AND OF
COURSE THAT WOULD BE MATT
McKECHNIE'S PROPERTY IN THAT
AREA AS WELL.
WE THEN SEE A BIG PATCH OF LOOKS
LIKE RUST OR ORANGE OR YELLOW,
WHATEVER, WHATEVER COLOUR THAT
IS, AND THAT STARTS AGAIN NORTH
OF TIMMINS, CLOSER TO THE CENTRE
OF THE PROVINCE, AND THEN MOVING
DOWN THROUGH CENTRAL ONTARIO AND
RIGHT THROUGH SOUTHWESTERN
ONTARIO, THROUGH TORONTO,
BRANTFORD, LONDON, CHATHAM, ALL
THE WAY INTO WINDSOR, ALL THOSE
AREAS NORTH OF LAKE ERIE.
AND IN NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO,
THEY SEEM TO BE FINE FOR THE
MOMENT.
BUT LOTS OF ONTARIO, AS YOU CAN
SEE FROM THAT MAP, IF YOU CAN
SEE IT, UNDER FLOOD WARNING OR
FLOOD WATCH.
BARBARA, HOW BIG A PROBLEM IS
FLOODING IN THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO?

The caption changes to "Barbara Robinson. Norton Engineering."

Barbara says WELL, WE'RE SEEING MORE FLOODING, TO
BE SURE.
THE FLOODING IS BECOMING MORE
EXPENSIVE FOR REASONS THAT DON'T
NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO WITH THE
FREQUENCY.
THE KIND OF FLOODING I DO... I'M
AN EXPERT IN URBAN FLOODING
WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN MARINE
FLOODING.
URBAN FLOODING HAPPENS IN THE
URBAN BOUNDARY RATHER THAN AS A
RESULT OF A WATER LEVEL, LAKE OR
RIVER, HIGH.
SO THE RISK OF FLOOD ACROSS
ONTARIO, I WOULD SAY THAT
EVERYBODY IN ONTARIO IS
CURRENTLY AT RISK OF FLOODING.

Steve says YOU JUST SAID
EVERYBODY.

Barbara says YEAH.
THAT WOULD BE MY... I WOULD MAKE
THAT STATEMENT, YES.

Steve says EVERYBODY IN ONTARIO
IS AT RISK OF SOME KIND OF
FLOOD, NOT NECESSARILY RISING
RIVERS BUT SOMETHING.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Barbara says SURE.
THE BURLINGTON FLOODS...
BURLINGTON WASN'T ACCUSTOMED TO
FLOODING BEFORE.
BUT IF A BIG STORM PARKS OVER
YOUR TOWN AND DUMPS A BUNCH OF
RAIN ON YOU, THE SEWER SYSTEMS
ARE ONLY DESIGNED FOR A CERTAIN
RETURN PERIOD, AND IF THEY BACK
UP, EVERYBODY CAN EXPERIENCE
FLOODING.

Steve says BONNIE, WHAT'S YOUR
TAKE ON THAT?

The caption changes to "Bonnie Fox. Conservation Ontario."

Bonnie says I WAS LOOKING AT THE MAP.
IF YOU WERE ABLE TO PROCESS THAT
MAP FOR TODAY, LAKE ONTARIO
WATER LEVEL WARNINGS HAVE COME
OUT, IN LAKE ERIE, WATER LEVEL
WARNINGS FOR FLOODING.
SO I THINK THE RED MIGHT BE A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ACROSS THE
NORTHERN SHORES OF THE GREAT
LAKES.
IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES, THEY
DO FLOOD FORECASTING, WARNINGS,
SO THEY WORK WITH THE PROVINCE
ON KNOWING WHAT THE RAIN IS, THE
SNOW, FOR THE GREAT LAKES, WHAT
THE WAVES ARE THAT ARE COMING,
IF THERE'S HIGH WINDS.
THERE ARE HIGH WAVES ON LAKE
ONTARIO TODAY AS WELL.
SO THAT COMBINED WITH ALL THOSE
OTHER FACTORS AND THE RAINFALL
AFFECTS HOW YOU FORECAST AND
WARN PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT TO
EXPECT.

Steve says WELL, I THINK THEY
KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT IN WINDSOR.
YOUR WORSHIP, DO YOU WANT TO
TELL US WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH A
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO?

The caption changes to "Drew Dilkens. Mayor of Windsor."

Drew says IT WASN'T PLEASANT.
THE INTERVIEW WITH MATT, I FEEL
FOR HIS FAMILY AND EVERYBODY IN
THAT PARTICULAR AREA.
STEVE, IT GOES BACK TO 2010, TWO
BIG EVENTS AROUND THE CITY OF
WINDSOR.
A VERY INTENSE AMOUNT OF
RAINFALL CAUSED PROBABLY A
THOUSAND HOMES TO FLOOD AND THE
CITY REACTED IN SOME VERY DIRECT
WAYS AFTER THAT.
BUT THEN AS WE'RE MOVING
FORWARD, 2016, WE SEE 190
MILLIMETRES OF RAINFALL AGAIN
OVER A VERY SHORT PERIOD... OR A
VERY PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME.
BUT THE IMPACT WAS ABOUT 2800
BASEMENTS FLOODING IN THE CITY
OF WINDSOR, FOLLOWED BY, AS
GLENN MENTIONED, LESS THAN A
YEAR LATER, 120 MILLIMETRES OF
RAIN AFFECTED OVER 5600 HOME
OWNERS AND CAUSED ABOUT
175 MILLION Dollars IN LOSS IN THE CITY
OF WINDSOR.
SO QUITE DRAMATIC TO SEE THAT
AMOUNT OF GARBAGE OUT ON THE
STREET, PEOPLE JUST HAVING TO
EMPTY THEIR BASEMENTS, REALLY
DISRUPTING LIVES AND, I'LL TELL
YOU, WE WERE TRYING TO BRING
GARBAGE TRUCKS ALL THE WAY FROM
NORTH BAY TO HELP MOVE THE
GARBAGE, TRYING TO BRING THEM IN
FROM THE UNITED STATES, BUT
THERE WAS A HURRICANE DOWN IN
TEXAS.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO GET
RESOURCES TO DEAL WITH WHAT WE
SAW IN THE STREET, BUT QUITE
CATASTROPHIC IN THE CITY OF
WINDSOR AND CERTAINLY WHERE IT'S
AS FLAT AS A PANCAKE AND
SURROUNDED BY WATER, SO WE GET
SCARED ABOUT PROLONGED RAIN
STORMS BUT ALSO HIGH LAKE LEVELS
AS WELL.

Steve says HOW IS IT RIGHT NOW?

Drew says RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A FLOOD
WATCH IN EFFECT AND SO PEOPLE
ARE SCARED.
THESE TYPES OF EVENTS PLAY ON
PEOPLE'S PSYCHE.
THAT'S ONE THING WE HAVE TO
REMEMBER.
THIS IS NOT JUST... OKAY, IT'S
ONE SORT OF EXTREME WEATHER
EVENT AND IT GOES AWAY AND
EVERYONE MOVES ON WITH THEIR
LIFE.
IT ACTUALLY DOES HAVE A LASTING
IMPACT ON PEOPLE.
AND CERTAINLY AS A MAYOR, AS A
LOCAL POLITICIAN, YOU WANT TO
HELP.
YOU'RE THERE TO HELP THE
RESIDENTS.
AND THIS IS JUST ONE TYPE OF
EVENT WHERE YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE
WITHIN YOUR CONTROL THAT YOU CAN
DO, BUT WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE
CAN DO.
WE THANK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
RECENTLY CAME DOWN LAST WEEK.
WE PUT TOGETHER A 90 MILLION DOLLAR
PART OF OUR SEWER MASTER PLAN, A
90 MILLION DOLLARS FIRST PHASE.
THEY CAME DOWN AND FUNDED A
THIRD OF THAT.
WE'RE COMMITTED TO TRYING TO
MAKE THE IMPROVEMENTS WE CAN
MAKE.
WE'RE ALSO COGNIZANT OF THE FACT
THAT OUR SEWER SYSTEM IN
TOTALITY IS ABOUT 1700
KILOMETRES LONG.
THAT WOULD BE LIKE DRIVING FROM
WINDSOR TO ORLANDO.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
IT TOOK 100 YEARS TO BUILD THE
SYSTEM.
IT'S GOING TO TAKE MANY, MANY
DECADES TO MAKE THE
IMPROVEMENTS.

Steve says ON THE ISSUE OF
SEWERS, YOU AND I ARE GOING TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION AFTER THIS
OVER ABOUT SEWERS.
THERE IS A LOT TO TALK ABOUT
THERE AS WELL.
ANDREA, HOW EASY IS IT FOR
SOMEBODY TO FIND OUT, IF THEY
LIVE TO AN AREA THAT IS PRONE TO
FLOODING BEFORE THEY MOVE INTO
AN AREA THAT'S PRONE TO FLOODING?

The caption changes to "Andrea Minano. University of Waterloo."
Then, it changes again to "Mapping flood zones."

Andrea says YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
WHAT YOU HEAR A LOT OF THE TIMES
IS WHAT MATT IS EXPERIENCING, OF
FIGURING THIS OUT AFTER THERE IS
WATER IN HIS BASEMENT OR IN HIS
HOUSE AND HE IS GETTING FLOODED,
AND THEN FIGURING OUT THAT HIS
INSURANCE POLICY DOES NOT COVER
FLOODING AND FLOOD REPAIRS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S A LOT EASIER WHEN
YOU HAVE THIS ADDITIONAL FUNDING
THAT WILL HELP YOU KIND OF
RECOVER OUT OF THAT SITUATION.
BUT WE DID A STUDY ACROSS
CANADA, WE LOOKED AT 280
MUNICIPALITIES...

Steve says WHO'S "WE"?

Andrea says WE, AS IN MY RESEARCH GROUP
AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO,
INCLUDING TWO PROFESSORS THERE,
AND WE WERE INTERESTED IN
FIGURING OUT, OKAY, IF I AM A
CONCERNED CITIZEN AND I LOOK AT
THE NEWS AND I'M BEING TOLD BY
MY GOVERNMENT THAT I SHOULD BE
FLOOD AWARE, THAT I HAVE TO BE
READY, WHAT INFORMATION WOULD I
FIND?
AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY EASY.
IT'S NOT EASY AND IT'S NOT EASY
IN ONTARIO EITHER,
UNFORTUNATELY.
WE LOOKED AT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE
CITY OF HAMILTON.
YOU HAVE A VARIETY OF
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES THAT
PUBLISH THEIR FLOOD MAPS ONLINE.
SO DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN
THE CITY OF HAMILTON, YOU WOULD
HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHICH
CONSERVATION AUTHORITY YOU FALL
UNDER AND THEN KIND OF LOOK IN
THOSE CHANNELS.

Steve says ARE THE MAPS OUT OF DATE?

Andrea says A LOT OF THE TIMES, YES.
WE FOUND SIGNIFICANT ISSUES IN
BRITISH COLUMBIA, FOR EXAMPLE.
YOU CAN KIND OF FIND THESE...
IT'S KIND OF FUNNY, ACTUALLY.
IN THE PROVINCIAL WEBSITE, IT'S
KIND OF DIVIDED BY REGION AND
THEN IT'S DIVIDED BY RIVERS.
SO FIGURE OUT WHERE YOUR
COMMUNITY IS IN RELATION TO
THOSE RIVERS AND FIGURE OUT
WHICH FLOOD MAP AND IT'S FIVE OR
SIX CLICKS LATER... WHEN I FIRST
CAME ACROSS ONE OF THE MAPS
THERE, I DIDN'T KNOW I HAD TO
CLICK ON IT TO GET TO THE ACTUAL
MAP, AND THEN AT THE END OF THE
DAY, THE INFORMATION JUST TELLS
YOU A PIECE OF THE STORY.
AND IT JUST FOCUSES ON
FLOODPLAINS AS WHAT WE REGULATE,
FOR EXAMPLE, HERE IN ONTARIO,
FLOODPLAINS, WHICH IS RIVER
FLOODING.

Steve says BONNIE, I SHOULD LET
YOU COMMENT ON THAT.

Bonnie says YEAH, IF I
COULD MENTION, THERE IS AN
ONTARIO FLOOD FORECAST WARNING
WEBSITE AND IT HAS A MAP OF
ONTARIO.
YOU CAN CLICK ON IT AND THEN
THAT WILL GET YOU TO THE
CONSERVATION AUTHORITY AND WHAT
THE WARNINGS ARE FOR THAT AREA.
BUT I HAD TO HAVE SOMEONE KIND
OF TAKE ME THROUGH... LIKE, TO
SHOW ME, EVEN WITH THAT WEBSITE,
WHAT THE DYNAMICS WERE AND WHAT
YOU COULD FIND OUT FROM IT.

Steve says IT'S NOT THAT USER FRIENDLY?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Bonnie says MAYBE I'M NOT A
GOOD PERSON TO ASK THAT QUESTION
OF, RIGHT?
[LAUGHTER]
MY DAUGHTER ALWAYS TELLS ME,
IT'S INTUITIVE.
AND I ALWAYS SAY, "NOT TO ME."
MAYBE I'M NOT A GOOD PERSON TO
ASK THAT QUESTION.
BUT CERTAINLY THE CONSERVATION
AUTHORITY, IF SOMEONE IS LOOKING
TO BUY A HOME, THE CONSERVATION
AUTHORITIES, WE DO GET REAL
ESTATE INQUIRIES AND SO THEY ARE
A SOURCE OF INFORMATION FOR IF
YOU'RE IN A FLOODPLAIN OR NOT.
ANDREA IS CORRECT.
SOME HAVE THE MAPS UP ON WEB
SITES.
SOME STILL HAVE PAPER MAPS.
YOU KNOW, WE REALLY NEED TO SEE
THAT MAPPING... LIKE, TO BE ABLE
TO PROVIDE IT TO THE PUBLIC
EASILY.
WE NEED THE MAPPING...

Steve says CAN I FOLLOW UP WITH
ANDREA ON THAT?
ARE THERE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES
IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO THAT
HAVE A GOOD JOB OF HAVING MAPS
UP TO DATE AND EASILY ACCESSIBLE
TO PEOPLE?

The caption changes to "Andrea Minano, @Andrea_Minano."

Andrea says YOU KNOW WHAT?
I HAVEN'T BEEN NECESSARILY
IMPRESSED.
I WILL SAY THAT THE GRAND RIVER
CONSERVATION AUTHORITY DOES A
REALLY GREAT JOB.
THEY COLLABORATE ACTUALLY WITH
THE POLICE TO KIND OF GET THESE
BROCHURES THAT HAVE THE MAPS AND
DIFFERENT ZONES THAT ARE AT RISK
AND KIND OF ADVICE FOR HOME
OWNERS.
BUT, AGAIN, BECAUSE CONSERVATION
AUTHORITIES... AND AGAIN THE
KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY AROUND
FLOODING IN ONTARIO IS DIVIDED
BY MUNICIPALITIES FOCUSED ON
STORM WATER MANAGEMENT,
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES ARE
FOCUSED ON RIVERS, AND AT LEAST
I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND A
MAP THAT SHOWS ME BOTH.

Barbara says I CAN COMMENT... I LIVE IN
THE GRAND RIVER CONSERVATION
AUTHORITY AREA, AND FRIENDS OF
MINE WERE BUYING A HOME AND THEY
ASKED ME, OF COURSE, BECAUSE I'M
A SEWER EXPERT...

Steve says YOU SHOULD TELL
PEOPLE WHERE THAT IS.

Barbara says KITCHENER-WATERLOO.
THERE IS FLOODING ALONG THE
RIVER EVERY YEAR, FREQUENTLY IN
KITCHENER-WATERLOO.
SO THESE FRIENDS WERE BUYING A
NEW HOME AND THEY SAID HOW DO WE
FIND OUT IF WE'RE IN THE
FLOODPLAIN?
I SAID JUST LOOK AT THE
FLOODPLAIN MAP.
THESE ARE UNIVERSITY-HE HAD
INDICATED PEOPLE...
EDUCATED PEOPLE.
THEY SAID THEY COULDN'T FIND IT.
IT'S NOT INTUITIVE.

Glenn says I DON'T THINK IT'S REASONABLE
TO EXPECT THE AVERAGE PERSON TO
FIRST OF ALL ACCESS THE MAP AND
THEN UNDERSTAND IT.
IF YOU LOOK AT NORTH CAROLINA,
THEY HAVE AN ONLINE PORTAL, YOU
PUT IN YOUR ZIP CODE, YOU GET
YOUR FLOOD RISK AT THE PROPERTY
LEVEL.
THERE ARE OTHER EASTERN EUROPEAN
COUNTRIES AND THINGS OF THAT
NATURE.
WE NEED A SIMPLE TOOL, PUT IN
YOUR POSTAL CODE, GET YOUR RISK
FOR YOUR PROPERTY.

Steve says WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY
IS IT TO HAVE THAT DONE?

The caption changes to "Glenn McGillivray, ICLRCanada."

Glenn says IT COULD BE ANY NUMBER OF
GROUPS' RESPONSIBILITY.
IT COULD BE ON THE MUNICIPAL,
PROVINCIAL, OR FEDERAL
RESPONSIBILITY.
WE SHOULD WORK TOGETHER AND COME
UP WITH A GOOD TOOL.

Steve says HOW ARE WINDSOR'S
MAPS LOOKING?

The caption changes to "Drew Dilkens, @drewdilkens."

Drew says WE STARTED THE PROCESS OF
HAVING A COMPREHENSIVE
FLOODPLAIN MAP.
I AGREE WITH GLENN.
BUT THAT SORT OF INTERFACE NEEDS
TO BE BACKED UP BY THE DATA ON
THE BACK END.
WE'RE PREPARING THAT DATA.
AND I AGREE.
IF THERE'S SOME EASY WAY FOR
PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
IMPACT COULD BE BASED ON WHERE
THEY ARE LOOKING TO LIVE, THAT
WOULD BE... THAT WOULD HELP
PEOPLE MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE
AND THAT WOULD BE GOOD.

Steve says INFORMED CHOICE IS A
KEY THING HERE.
BECAUSE I WONDER, ANDREA, HOW
PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO MAKE
INTELLIGENT PLANNING DECISIONS
WITH INFORMATION THAT IS A
DECADE OUT OF DATE.
HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

Andrea says YEAH.
SO THAT'S A FUNDAMENTAL CHALLENGE.
AGAIN, GOING BACK, EVEN MAYBE
GIVING THE EXAMPLE OF NOVA
SCOTIA.
I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF
EXPERTISE IN NOVA SCOTIA.
I HAVE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH
SOME OF THE PROFESSIONALS DOWN
THERE.
I'VE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT
FLOODPLAIN MAPS.
AND THEY ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SEE
SOMETHING, GUIDANCE FROM THE
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT TO SAY,
YOU KNOW, AT THE MUNICIPAL
LEVEL, WE ARE GOING TO RESTRICT
DEVELOPMENT HERE AND THIS IS
KIND OF PROVINCIALLY MANDATED.
SO THEY'D HAVE THIS, LIKE,
BACKUP.
AND IT'S NOT SIMPLY AS LEAVE IT
TO SMALL MUNICIPALITIES THAT
SOMETIMES HAVE 700 PEOPLE THAT
LIVE THERE, THEY'RE QUITE SMALL,
TO MAKE THESE SOMETIMES
DIFFICULT CHOICES BECAUSE YOU
HAVE SORT OF PUSHBACK FROM
PROPERTY DEVELOPERS AND THAT
TYPE OF THING.

Steve says GLENN, DO FLOODPLAIN
MAPS HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE RATE
OF INSURANCE THAT PEOPLE PAY?

Glenn says WELL,
ABSOLUTELY... THEY SHOULD ANYWAY.
I SHOULD SAY THAT FLOOD
INSURANCE IS NEW TO THIS COUNTRY.
WE'VE ONLY HAD IT FOR JUST OVER
THREE YEARS, FEBRUARY OF 2015.
AND A LOT OF THE FLOOD INSURANCE
PRODUCTS RIGHT NOW ARE WORKING
OFF OF MODELS AND MODELLED MAPS,
AND SOME OLD INFORMATION,
UNFORTUNATELY.
SO WE DO NEED SOME NEW MAPS.
BUT CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE IN A
VERY HIGH RISK AREA, THAT'S AN
ISSUE.
YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE
ABLE TO GET FLOOD INSURANCE...
AT LEAST ONLY ONE COMPANY OFFERS
IT FOR HIGH-RISK INDIVIDUALS AND
NOBODY ELSE DOES AT THIS TIME.
SO THERE HAS TO BE A DISCUSSION
ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH THOSE IN
THE HIGH RISK FLOODPLAIN.
BUT CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE IN A
HIGH RISK OR SLIGHTLY HIGH RISK
AREA, IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO
HAVE AN IMPACT ON YOUR FLOOD INSURANCE.

Steve says BONNIE, ARE WE STILL
BUILDING HOMES ON FLOODPLAINS IN
THIS PROVINCE?

The caption changes to "Bonnie Fox, @conont."

Bonnie says I'D LIKE TO SAY NO.
SO THE WAY THAT ONTARIO
REGULATES THE FLOODPLAINS, THE
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES WOULD
LOOK AT... IT'S A PERMISSIVE
REGULATION.
SO WE DO HAVE TO LOOK AT WHETHER
OR NOT DEVELOPMENT CAN OCCUR
ACCORDING TO THE RISK.
AND SO THAT CAN BE CHALLENGED BY
THE FACT THAT, WHAT IS THE
STATUS OF THE FLOODPLAIN MAPS
AND THE HAZARD RISK MAPS THAT
WE'RE USING IN THE AREAS WHERE
WE DON'T HAVE THE
COMPREHENSIVE... THE UPDATED
VERSIONS, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
ASKING THE DEVELOPERS TO DO SOME
MODELLING.
WE CHECK THE MODELLING.
AND SO FOR THE MOST PART, I
WOULD SAY THAT DEVELOPMENT IS
HAPPENING OUTSIDE OF OUR
FLOODPLAINS IN ONTARIO WHERE
THERE ARE CONSERVATION
AUTHORITIES.
ONE OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES
THROUGH THE FLOOD MANAGEMENT
PROGRAM WITH THE PROVINCE IS
THAT THE CONSERVATION
AUTHORITIES WORK WITH THE
MUNICIPALITIES ON THEIR OFFICIAL
PLANS AND WHERE ARE THE HAZARD
AREAS, WHERE ARE THE HIGHER RISK
AREAS, AND THEN THAT BECOMES
KIND OF A CONSTRAINT MAP FOR THE
DEVELOPERS TO KNOW... I DON'T
THINK THEY WANT TO BUILD THEIR
HOUSES IN A FLOODPLAIN EITHER.

Steve says SHALL WE TALK ABOUT
THE ELEPHANT THAT'S IN THE ROOM
HERE?
AND I KNOW, GLENN, YOU WERE VERY
CAREFUL WHEN I ASKED YOU ABOUT
THIS RIGHT OFF THE TOP, NOT TO
SAY THIS IS ALL BECAUSE OF
CLIMATE CHANGE.
OKAY.
I GET THAT.
HAVING SAID THAT, MAYOR DILKENS,
YOUR BRIEFINGS, YOUR
UNDERSTANDING OF THE SCIENCE,
WHAT ARE SENIOR LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT TELLING YOU ABOUT ALL
OF THIS.
WHAT HAVE YOU CONCLUDED AS TO
WHETHER OR NOT CLIMATE CHANGE IS
PLAYING A ROLE IN WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.

The caption changes to "An unpredictable climate."

Drew says THERE WILL BE A DEBATE.
I'LL GET 500 EMAILS BY THE TIME
I GET BACK HOME.
BUT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED IN MY
47 YEARS ON THE PLANET, IN MY 47
YEARS IN LIVING IN THE CITY OF
WINDSOR, SOMETHING HAS CHANGED
FROM YEAR 1 TO YEAR 47.
AND I'VE SEEN IT PLAY OUT
UNFORTUNATELY IN MY TIME AS AN
ELECTED OFFICIAL.
AND I WOULD SAY AT LEAST
REGIONALLY, IN ESSEX COUNTY,
WE'RE LOOKING SMARTER, WE'RE
WORKING MORE COLLABORATIVELY,
WE'RE MORE CONSCIOUS AND RISK
AVERSE WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING
DECISIONS FOR DEVELOPMENT.
I WON'T GET INTO THE DEBATE ON
CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT SOMETHING IS
HAPPENING AND WE'RE SEEING, YOU
KNOW, CHANGES THAT WE HAVE TO
DEAL WITH.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE
MAPS, STEVE, WHERE I'D SHOW THIS
MAP...

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Steve says TELL ME WHICH CAMERA
YOU WANT THIS MAP TO?
CAMERA 3.
OKAY.
HOLD IT UP TO THAT CAMERAMAN.

Drew holds up a map with thousands of blue dots across the middle.

He says THESE 6600 FOLKS WOULD
CERTAINLY TELL YOU SOMETHING IS CHANGING.

Steve says THE PATCHY BLUE AREAS ARE...

Drew says THOSE ARE THE REPORTED HOME
OWNERS WHO HAD BASEMENT FLOODING
IN EITHER 2016 OR 2017.

Steve says THAT LOOKS LIKE HALF
THE CITY ALMOST?

Drew says IT'S DRAMATIC, IT'S DRAMATIC.

Barbara says IF I CAN COMMENT?
THE RAIN ACTUALLY FOLLOWED... IT
FLOODED RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE
RAIN BAND.
SO THAT WAS RAIN-RELATED.
THAT WAS SEWER FLOODING RATHER
THAN... URBAN FLOODING RATHER
THAN RIVER...

Steve says RIVER OVERFLOWS, OKAY.

Barbara says I'M NOT SURE IF YOU KNOW,
STEVE, 350,000 PEOPLE TODAY IN
ONTARIO LIVE IN FLOODPLAINS.
NOT ALL OF THEM WOULD BE AWARE
OF THAT.

Steve says AND THEY'RE PROBABLY
NOT GOING ANYWHERE, RIGHT?
THAT'S HOME.
THAT'S WHERE THEY PLANTED THEIR FLAG?

Barbara says YEAH.

Steve says TELL US WHETHER YOU
THINK CLIMATE CHANGE AFFECTS
INFRASTRUCTURE PLANNING RIGHT NOW.

Barbara says WELL, THAT'S ANOTHER
INTERESTING QUESTION.
CERTAINLY I DON'T THINK WE NEED
TO START OVERSIZING PIPES FOR
INFRASTRUCTURE.
I THINK WE NEED TO... AS
ENGINEERS, WE DESIGN PIPES BASED
ON AVAILABLE DATA AND GOOD DATA.
THE DATA WE USE FOR DESIGNING
SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE... I'M NOT
REALLY SEEING A CHANGE IN THE
IDF CURVES, WE CALL THEM, THE
CURVE WE PULL OFF THE PROPOSED
RAINFALL FROM.
WE ARE TEA NOT REALLY SEEING
THAT IN OUR DATA SETS YET.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT
HAPPENING.
BUT I WILL SAY... I'M GETTING
CONCERNED WITH THE MEDIA.
I MEAN, EVERYBODY IS ON MEDIA
MAKING BROAD STATEMENTS ABOUT
CLIMATE CHANGE AND IT'S THIS AND
IT'S THAT.
YOU KNOW, LET'S LET THE
CLIMATOLOGISTS TELL US WHETHER
CLIMATE CHANGE IS COMING AND
WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
I'M A CIVIL ENGINEER.
I'M NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON
CLIMATE CHANGE.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON
IN WATER SHEDS THAT MIGHT BE
CONTRIBUTING TO THAT FLOODING.

Steve says YOU CAN'T
NECESSARILY CONNECT THE DOTS
BETWEEN A, B, C, AND D.

Barbara says IT'S PROBABLY HAPPENING, STEVE.
BUT LET'S TALK TO CLIMATOLOGISTS
AND LET THEM TELL US.

Steve says YOU SAID 350,000
PEOPLE IN ONTARIO LIVE ON FLOODPLAINS.
THERE IS A BUYOUT PROGRAM SO
THAT IF YOU'RE IN THAT KIND OF A
SITUATION, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL
HELP YOU OUT.
DO WE NEED SOMETHING LIKE THAT HERE?

The caption changes to "Changing policies."

Glenn says WE CERTAINLY DO.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING THESE
REPEATED EVENTS AND THE TONE
THIS TIME AROUND IS KIND OF
ENOUGH'S ENOUGH TYPE OF IDEA.
NOW, I DON'T WANT TO SOUND
CALLOUS, YOU KNOW, LISTENING TO
MATT EARLIER, THIS IS HORRIFIC
FOR PEOPLE AND WE REALLY HAVE TO
MAKE PEOPLE WHOLE AGAIN AND GET
THEM BACK ON THEIR FEET AGAIN.
BUT THIS IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

Steve says WHAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE?

Glenn says THIS WHOLE IDEA OF BUILD,
FLOOD, CLEANUP, FLOOD AGAIN,
CLEANUP, FLOOD AGAIN, CLEANUP,
PAY THEM MONEY, PAY THEM
DISASTER ASSISTANCE, PAYING THEM
INSURANCE.
WE CAN'T KEEP THIS UP.
THE FEELING IS THAT FLOODING IS
GOING TO GET WORSE IN THE FUTURE
FOR MANY REASONS, CLIMATE CHANGE
IS JUST ONE OF THEM, AND IT'S
JUST FOLLY.
IT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER,
PARTICULARLY FOR PEOPLE IN THE
HIGH RISK FLOOD AREA.
WE'RE NOT SAYING BUY EVERYBODY
OUT, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT
ARE RIGHT IN THE FLOODWAY THAT
IS BASICALLY RIGHT NEXT TO
RIVERS.
THEY WILL FLOOD AGAIN AND THEY
WILL FLOOD AGAIN.
IT MIGHT BE NEXT YEAR.
IT MIGHT BE TWO YEARS.
IT MIGHT BE FIVE YEARS.
BUT WE'LL BE BACK HERE TALKING
ABOUT IT AGAIN.
AND IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
WE CAN'T KEEP IT UP.

Steve says YOUR WORSHIP, WHAT
ABOUT THE BUYBACK PROGRAM?
WOULD THAT FLY IN WINDSOR?

Drew says I THINK
WHAT GLENN IS REFERRING TO IS
BUYBACK RELATED TO OVERLAND
FLOODING.
BASEMENT FLOODING IS WHAT I'M
TALKING ABOUT IN THE CITY OF
WINDSOR.
IT WOULDN'T BE PRACTICAL TO
CONSIDER THAT FOR A BASEMENT
FLOOD.
CERTAINLY I AGREE.
IF YOU LOOK AT SOME EUROPEAN
JURISDICTIONS, THEY'RE VERY
STRATEGIC IN THE WAY THAT THEY
ALLOW DEVELOPMENT SUCH THAT THEY
WOULD NOT BE PAYING INSURANCE
CLAIMS TIME AND TIME AGAIN, JUST
AS GLENN HAS SUGGESTED.

Steve says LET ME GET ANDREA
AND BONNIE IN ON THE BUYBACK PROGRAM.

Andrea says I THINK WHAT QUEBEC IS DOING
IS PROBABLY WHAT OTHER PROVINCES
WILL EVENTUALLY ADOPT AS WELL
BECAUSE THEY BASICALLY ARE
CAPPING THE AMOUNT OF LOSSES
THAT A PERSON CAN EXPERIENCE.
SO I THINK IT'S SOMETHING AROUND
100,000.
IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 100,000
WORTH OF DAMAGE, THEY WILL BUY
YOU OUT.
AND I THINK THERE'S A LIMIT TO
THAT OF 200,000.
SO 200,000 FOR YOU TO MOVE OUT
OF WHERE YOU ARE LIVING.
IN ONTARIO, YOU KNOW, THE
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES, AND IN
TERMS OF, LIKE, REGULATING THE
FLOODPLAIN, THAT LEGISLATION I
THINK IT CAME IN THE '50s.
SO BASICALLY HOMES THAT WERE
BUILT BEFORE THAT, INCLUDING
PARTS OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA WHERE
I LIVE IN THE CITY OF WATERLOO,
I LIVE ON A FLOODPLAIN.
SO THESE ARE VERY DIFFICULT
CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE.
BUT IN SOME CASES IT DOES MAKE
SENSE BECAUSE IT'S LIKE REPEAT
FLOODING AND THE PERSON GOES
THROUGH THE SAME THING.

Steve says ANDREA, CAN I ASK
YOU THIS?
IF YOU GET 200K AND YOUR HOUSE
IS WORTH 250, THAT MAKES A LOT
OF SENSE.
IF YOUR HOUSE IS WORTH 750 AND
YOU'RE ONLY OFFERED 200, THAT
DOESN'T MAKE AS MUCH SENSE, DOES IT?

Andrea says IT DOESN'T.
I THINK THOSE ARE SOME OF THE
CRITICISMS THAT I'VE SEEN
RECENTLY IN THE MEDIA FROM SOME
EXPERTS TALKING ABOUT THIS, THAT
IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A FAIR
PRICE.
I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT ON THAT,
BUT I CAN FEEL FOR THOSE
FAMILIES BECAUSE YOUR HOUSE IS
YOUR INVESTMENT, IT'S YOUR
RETIREMENT.
SO THESE ARE NOT EASY
CIRCUMSTANCES, AND, AGAIN, IT'S
WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO
REGULATE THAT FLOODPLAIN, TO
MAKE SURE WE DON'T CREATE MORE
OF THESE PROBLEMS.

Steve says BONNIE?

Bonnie says SO THE
CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES, THEY
HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH
BUYBACK... YOU KNOW, BUYING
HAZARD LANDS.
A LOT OF HAZARD LAND WAS BOUGHT
IN PREVIOUS DECADES.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT
TYPICALLY... IT HAS BEEN
EXPLORED IN SOME SITUATIONS
WHERE IT'S A MUNICIPAL
CONSERVATION AUTHORITY
CONVERSATION AND JUST THE HIGH
RISK THAT THEY'RE AT.
BUT THEN IT COMES DOWN TO MONEY
AND FAIRNESS AND ALL OF THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION IN TERMS
OF DISASTER RELIEF PAYMENTS, IN
THE OTTAWA RIVER AND LAKE
ONTARIO HIGH WATER LEVELS, A FEW
YEARS AGO WHERE THE FLOODING
HAPPENED AND THERE WERE DAMAGES
AND THE DISASTER PROGRAM, TO BE
ELIGIBLE FOR THE FUNDING, THEY
HAD TO REBUILD ON THE SAME
FOUNDATION.

Steve says DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

Bonnie says NO.
AND SO THE CONSERVATION
AUTHORITIES WOULD LIKE TO SEE
CONDITIONS WHERE AT LEAST FLOOD
PROOF.
MATT HAD MENTIONED THAT SOME OF
THE NEIGHBOURS HAD RAISED THE
HOUSE, THE FOUNDATIONS UP,
RIGHT?
AT LEAST DO FLOOD-PROOFING AND
IF WE CAN GET THE BUILDINGS
BACK, AS FAR BACK FROM THE RISK
AS POSSIBLE IN THE BUILDING
ENVELOPE... BUT GENERAL POLICY
IS THAT IF PROPERTY IS DESTROYED
BY A NATURAL HAZARD, WE
SHOULDN'T BE...

Steve says REPEATING THE SAME
MISTAKE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Bonnie says BUT IT'S PEOPLE'S HOMES.

Steve says I GET IT.
THERE'S THAT EMOTIONAL CONNECTION.
I WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT THE CITY
OF WINDSOR HAS DONE, YOUR
WORSHIP, GIVEN ALL OF THE
FLOODING PROBLEMS YOU'VE HAD
THERE OVER THE LAST, WELL,
ALMOST DECADE NOW?
WHAT CHANGES HAVE YOU MADE TO
DEAL WITH ALL OF THIS?

Drew says WELL,
AFTER 2010, WE STARTED A VERY
COMPREHENSIVE PROGRAM WITH
RESPECT TO SMOKE AND DYE
TESTING, FULL CAMERA INSPECTIONS
OF OUR ENTIRE SEWER SYSTEM.

Steve says HOLD THE BRAKES.
SMOKE AND DYE?

Drew says YOU ACTUALLY BLOW SMOKE INTO
THE SEWER SYSTEM AND YOU LOOK
FOR CROSS-CONNECTIONS,
CONNECTIONS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE...

Barbara says YOU CAN SEE THE SMOKE COMING
OUT OF THE... YOU PLUG THE SEWER
SYSTEM AT EITHER END OF A
MANHOLE AND YOU FORCE SMOKE INTO
IT AND IT GOES UP THROUGH THE
LATERALS AND ANY OPENINGS IN THE
SEWER.
SO YOU'LL SEE IT COME OUT OF THE
STACK IN YOUR HOUSE OR OUT OF
YOUR... AT THE TOP OF YOUR
HOUSE, THE SMOKE COMES OUT.
WE CAN VISUALLY CONFIRM THERE IS
A HYDRAULIC CONNECTION BETWEEN
ROOF WATER AND THE SANITARY
SEWER.

Steve says DO YOU STILL CALL IT
A MANHOLE COVER?

Barbara says EVERYBODY CALLS IT
MAINTENANCE HOLES.
I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 30
YEARS SO IT'S JUST MANHOLE FOR ME.

Drew says IT'S LIKE ROME, THEY PUT THE
SMOKE IN AND WAIT FOR IT TO RISE
UP AND SEE IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
THERE'S THAT.
WE ALSO IMPLEMENTED ALMOST
IMMEDIATELY A BASEMENT FLOODING
SUBSIDY PROTECTION PROGRAM, AND
THAT PROGRAM FUNDS UP TO 2800
FOR SPECIFIC ELEMENTS, THE
INSTALLATION OF A BACKFLOW
VALVE, A SUMP PUMP AND DIFFERENT
KINDS OF ELEMENTS, UP TO 2800
BUCKS.

Steve says WAS THERE UPTAKE ON THAT?

Drew says OH, BOY.
OVER 12,000 HOME OWNERS APPLIED.
WE'VE ALREADY PAID OUT 6,000
CLAIMS, OVER 13 MILLION DOLLARS.
AND FRANKLY, AT LEAST IN THE
CITY OF WINDSOR WITH RESPECT TO
BASEMENT FLOODING, WE COULD DO
ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN
MENTIONED HERE IN TERMS OF
OVERSIZING, ADDING PUMP
CAPACITY, ALL THE THINGS THAT,
YOU KNOW, SEEM OBVIOUS TO THE
AVERAGE HOME OWNER, BUT EVEN IF
WE DO THAT, WE KNOW THAT HOME
OWNERS STILL HAVE TO TAKE THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE CHANGES
IN THEIR HOME.
AND SO THE CITY IS... I MEAN, I
CAN'T DO ANY MORE THAN
100 PERCENT.
WE'RE BEING A VERY STRONG
PARTNER, TRYING TO ENCOURAGE
HOME OWNERS AS WE MOVE THROUGH
ALL OF THE ELEMENTS OF OUR SEWER
MASTER PLAN, WHICH ARE LIKELY TO
COST THE CITY OF WINDSOR HALF A
BILLION IN TODAY'S DOLLARS.
AS WE MOVE THROUGH THOSE
ELEMENTS, AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE
US DECADES TO DO THIS.
WE HAVE TO AND WE'RE ENCOURAGING
THEM, TAKE THE FIRST LINE OF
DEFENCE YOURSELF.
WE'RE WILLING TO FUND UP TO
2800.
GIVE YOURSELF A FIGHTING CHANCE.
BECAUSE ALL OF THE FOLKS THAT I
SHOWED YOU THERE HAVE ALSO HAD
ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO THEIR
INSURANCE, AND IF THEY WEREN'T
CANCELLED AFTER 2016 AND IT
HAPPENED IN 2017, YOU CAN BET
THAT THEY WERE CANCELLED OR
THEIR PREMIUMS WENT UP AND
THEY'VE HAD DIFFICULTY.
WE WANT TO HELP AND THE CITY'S
THERE TO HELP THEM.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_OConnor."

Steve says OKAY.
THAT IS OUR TIME.
I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR
COMING IN TO TVO TONIGHT AND
HELPING US OUT WITH THIS.
DREW DILKENS, THE MAYOR OF
WINDSOR. CAME A LONG WAY TO
BE WITH US TONIGHT.
THANK YOU FOR DOING SO.
BONNIE FOX FROM CONSERVATION
ONTARIO.
BARBARA ROBINSON, NORTON
ENGINEERING.
GLENN McGILLVRAY, THE
INSTITUTE FOR CATASTROPHIC LOSS
REDUCTION.
THAT IS A GREAT NAME FOR AN
ORGANIZATION.
AND ANDREA MINANO WHOM WE WISH
GOOD LUCK FINISHING HER Ph.D.
AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO.
THANKS SO MUCH, EVERYONE.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

All the guests say THANKS STEVE.

Watch: Ontario Under Water