Transcript: CanCon in the Era of Digital Behemoths | May 02, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and dark gray tie.

A caption on screen reads "Cancon in the era of digital behemoths. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says CANADIANS TELLING
CANADIAN STORIES, MAKING A PLACE
IN A MEDIA MARKETPLACE CROWDED
OUT BY BIGGER, BETTER-FINANCED
CULTURAL VOICES FROM OUTSIDE
THIS COUNTRY.
THAT ASPIRATION PROMPTED WHAT'S
NOW SOMEWHAT AFFECTIONATELY
CALLED, CANCON RULES.
IN EFFECT SINCE 1971, THEY'VE
ALWAYS BEEN THE SUBJECT OF GREAT
DEBATE.
DOES THAT CONVERSATION CHANGE IN
THE ERA OF NETFLIX, APPLE,
FACEBOOK AND ALL THOSE GLOBAL
MEGA-PLAYERS?
LET'S FIND OUT WITH ALAN CROSS,
HOST OF THE SYNDICATED RADIO
PROGRAM, THE ONGOING HISTORY OF NEW MUSIC.
IT'S ON TORONTO FM STATION 102.1 THE EDGE...

Alan is in his mid-fifties, clean-shaven, with short wavy brown hair. He's wearing glasses and a black tee.

Steve continues DANIEL SCHWANEN, VICE PRESIDENT
OF RESEARCH AT THE C.D. HOWE INSTITUTE...

Daniel is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and striped blue tie.

Steve continues AND SUSAN KRASHINSKY
ROBERTSON, MEDIA AND MARKETING
REPORTER AT "THE GLOBE AND MAIL."

Susan is in her forties, with long wavy brown hair. She's wearing a blue lace dress.

Steve continues AND IT'S A DELIGHT, SUSAN, TO
WELCOME YOU HERE FOR THE FIRST
TIME.
YOU TWO GENTLEMEN, WELCOME BACK
TO OUR PROGRAM.
NORMALLY WE DON'T START A
PROGRAM BY SAYING WHAT WE DON'T
HAVE.
WE USUALLY START BY SAYING WHAT
WE DO HAVE, BUT MICHAEL
McMILLAN, THE ACADEMY AWARD
WINNING PRODUCER FROM BLUE ANT
MEDIA WAS SUPPOSED TO BE JOINING
US TODAY.
HE GOT INTO A CAR ACCIDENT.
HE IS OKAY.
BUT THAT'S WHY HE'S NOT HERE
TODAY, AND WE JUST PUT THAT OUT
THERE TO WISH HIM WELL.
ALL RIGHT, LET'S START WITH
THIS.
CANCON, WHAT IS IT?

The caption changes to "Daniel Schwanen. C.D. Howe Institute."
Then, it changes again to "Rules, regs, and artistry."

Daniel says NOT THAT COMPLICATED.
IT'S WHAT IS PRODUCED BY
CANADIANS OR IN CANADA
SOMETIMES, DEPENDING ON WHETHER
YOU LOOK AT A TAX CREDIT OR AN
EXHIBITION QUOTA, OR A PRODUCT,
A MOVIE, FOR EXAMPLE, TELLING A
CANADIAN STORY.
SO ALL THESE WOULD QUALIFY,
DEPENDING ON WHAT KIND OF POLICY
YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
AGAIN, IT COULD BE A TAX... A...

Steve says BUT THE IDEA IS TO
COME UP WITH SOMETHING TO GIVE
CANADIAN PRODUCERS AND ARTISTS A
SHOT AT THEIR AIR WAVES.

Daniel says THAT'S RIGHT.
YEAH, EXACTLY.
SO PRODUCERS, ARTIST, PEOPLE
THAT WORK IN THE CULTURAL
INDUSTRIES IN GENERAL, THE
AIRWAVES, THE BOOK SHELVES,
POTENTIALLY, THE CINEMAS, YES,
ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says SUSAN, WHY WAS IT
BROUGHT IN IN THE FIRST PLAYS?

The caption changes to "Susan Krashinsky Robertson. The Globe and Mail."

Susan says WELL, THE IDEA BEHIND IT WAS
THAT WE LIVE NEXT TO A CULTURAL
BEHEMOTH, THE UNITED STATES.
THE IDEA WAS THAT WE NEEDED SOME
KIND OF SUBSIDIES AND EXTRA
SUPPORT IN ORDER TO MAKE
CANADIAN CULTURE THRIVE, THAT WE
WEREN'T BIG ENOUGH, ESSENTIALLY,
TO OVERCOME ALL OF THIS CULTURE
COMING AT US FROM THE SOUTH.

Steve says AND WHAT WAS THE HOPED FOR
OUTCOME OF IT ALL?

The caption changes to "Alan Cross. 102.1 The Edge."

Alan says WE HAD BOTH A CULTURAL AND
INDUSTRIAL POLICY.
CULTURAL IN THE SENSE THAT WE
WOULD ALLOW CANADIAN MUSICIANS
IN MY PARTICULAR AREA AN
OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD ON THE
RADIO NEXT TO INTERNATIONAL
MUSICIANS.
AND AN INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY IN
THE SENSE THAT WE HAD NO
RECORDING STUDIOS, WE HAD NO
RECORD LABELS.
WE HAD NO AGENTS, WE HAD NO
PROMOTERS, WE HAD NONE OF THOSE
THINGS THAT REQUIRE THE BUILDING
OF A FIRST WORLD MUSIC INDUSTRY.

Steve says AND IT WAS CONSIDERED
IMPERATIVE TO HAVE BECAUSE?

Alan says BECAUSE AMERICA AND BRITAIN
WERE SWAMPING US WITH MUSIC AND
ALL OUR BEST TALENT WAS LEAVING
THE COUNTRY FOR GREENER PASTURES.

Steve says LEGACY BROADCASTERS,
AND I GUESS WE'RE ONE OF THEM,
AND YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY
YOU'RE ONE OF THEM, TRADITIONAL
NEWSPAPERS, THEY HAVE TO...
WELL, I GUESS NEWSPAPERS NOT,
BUT CERTAINLY RADIO AND
TELEVISION HAD STRICT CANADIAN
CONTENT RULES THAT THEY HAD TO
ADHERE TO.
DID IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

Susan says IT DID.
BECAUSE FOR MANY YEARS THIS
WHOLE SYSTEM WAS BASED ON
SCARCITY, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT
HAS CHANGED NOW.
SO BACK IN THE DAY, A TELEVISION
LICENCE WAS ESSENTIALLY A
LICENCE TO PRINT MONEY.
PUTTING THAT CONTROL OF THOSE
LICENCES INTO THE HANDS OF THE
CRTC ALLOWED THE CRTC TO USE THE
LICENCE AS A CARROT,
ESSENTIALLY, TO FORCE THE
BROADCASTERS TO INVEST IN AND TO
SHOW CANADIANS CONTENTIOUS AND
THAT WAS THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAD
FOR MANY YEARS, AND IT WORKED IN
TERMS OF GETTING CANADIAN
CONTENT MADE.
PEOPLE ARE DIVIDED IN TERMS OF
WHETHER IT WORKED IN CREATING
CONTENT THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY
WANTED TO CONSUME.
THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

Steve says WE'LL HOLD OFF ON THAT
PART OF THE ARGUMENT FOR NOW.

Susan says BUT THE SCARCITY MODEL THAT
THE INDUSTRY WAS BASED ON IS NOW
GOING AWAY.
SO YOU HAVE THESE OTHER PLAYERS
COMING INTO THE MARKET WHO DON'T
REQUIRE LICENCES IN ORDER TO
BROADCAST.
I'M TALKING ABOUT NETFLIX.
I'M TALKING ABOUT AMAZON AND ALL
THE OTHERS THAT ARE LINING UP
WAITING TO LAUNCH VERY, VERY
SOON.
THE IDEA OF A TV LICENCE IS A
SOMEWHAT ANACHRONISTIC IDEA NOW
WHERE YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO
REACH CONSUMERS, TO REACH
VIEWERS WITHOUT BEING UNDER THE
STRICTURES OF THE RULES THAT THE
CRTC IMPOSED.

Alan says SAME THING WITH RADIO.
RADIO WAS ALL ABOUT USING PUBLIC
PROPERTY, WHICH ARE THE
FREQUENCIES THAT THE STATIONS
BROADCAST ON.
IF YOU WERE GOING TO USE THAT TO
MAKE SOME MONEY, THEN YOU NEEDED
TO PUT SOMETHING BACK INTO THE
SYSTEM, WHICH WAS... WELL, WE
HAVE CANCON RULES.
FEES, NEIGHBOURING RIGHTS FEES,
CONTRIBUTIONS TO ORGANIZATIONS
LIKE STARMAKER AND FACTOR.
SO IT WAS, OKAY, AGAIN, THE
CARROT AND STICK SORT OF THING.
WE'LL GIVE YOU A FREQUENCY FOR A
SPECIFIED PERIOD OF TIME, BUT
YOU'VE GOT TO PUT BACK.

Steve says BUT IN THE GIST OF IT,
IN AN HOUR OF RADIO, IN A
TYPICAL HOUR OF RADIO, YOU WOULD
HAVE TO PLAY X NUMBER OF MINUTES
OF CANADIAN ARTISTS?

Alan says RIGHT, IT BEGAN AT 30 percent, AND
THEN IT'S UP TO 35 percent AT A
MINIMUM.
SOME STATIONS HAVE PROMISED 40 percent
AND ABOVE JUST AS A WAY TO GET A
LICENCE.

Steve says HMM.
NOW DANIEL, THESE DAYS, OF
COURSE, ARE GONE.
WE DON'T HAVE A FINITE NUMBER OF
RADIO AND TELEVISION STATIONS
NOW.
WE HAVE AN ALMOST INFINITE
NUMBER NOW THANKS TO VIDEO
STREAMING AND SATELLITE RADIO
AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF.
DO CANCON RULES NOW, IN YOUR
VIEW, PUT THE LEGACY MEDIA, THE
OLD FASHIONED TV STATIONS AND
RADIO STATIONS, AT SOME KIND OF
COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE
THESE NEW KIDS ON THE BLOCK
DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW ANY OF
THESE RULES?

The caption changes to "Daniel Schwanen, @CDHoweInstitute."

Daniel says YOU STILL NEED A DEFINITION
OF CANADIAN CONTENT SO THAT YOU
KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO SUPPORT
AND YOU WANT TO HAVE AN IDEA OF
WHAT YOU WANT TO CONNECT WITH,
WHAT TYPE OF PRODUCT YOU WANT TO
CONNECT WITH YOUR AUDIENCE WITH.
BUT REALLY THE RULE THAT THEY
APPLIED, FOR EXAMPLE, TO
BROADCASTERS, AS YOU DESCRIBED,
WE'RE SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE
FOOT BECAUSE WE'RE PUTTING THE
TRADITIONAL BROADCASTERS, IF YOU
LIKE, AT A DISADVANTAGE.
NOW WE ASK THEM TO CONTRIBUTE
MONEY THROUGH A PRODUCTION FUND.
WE ASK THEM ON PRIME TIME TO
EXHIBIT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF
CANADIAN SHOWS, WHICH IS GREAT
FOR PEOPLE THAT MAKE THE SHOWS.
BUT YOU KNOW, NOT SO GREAT FOR
THEIR COMPETITIVENESS, VIS-A-VIS
NECESSARILY A NETFLIX AND SO ON.
SO IT'S... IT WAS MORE PUSHING
THE THE CONTENT IS WHERE WE...
WHAT WE WERE DOING, WHICH WAS
FINE IN THAT ERA OF LIMITED TIME
SHARE, IF YOU LIKE, BUT NOW WE
HAVE TO BE MORE AWARE THAT
THE... IT HAS TO BE MORE DEMAND
DRIVEN.
PEOPLE HAVE TO SOMEHOW DEMAND
THEIR CANADIAN CONTENT, AND
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says HOW DO... ALAN, I'LL
GO TO YOU ON THIS.
HOW DO... DANIEL SAYS THEY HAVE
TO DEMAND THEIR CANADIAN
CONTENT, BUT THEY'RE COMPETING
AGAINST CULTURAL INDUSTRIES IN
THE SOUTH WHICH, YOU KNOW, CAN
BY THOUSANDFOLD OUTPROMOTE AND
ALL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF THE
CONTENT THEY'VE GOT.

The caption changes to "Alan Cross, @AlanCross."

Alan says CANADIAN RADIO IS STILL
POWERFUL, PROFITABLE AND POPULAR.
88 percent OF THE PEOPLE TUNE INTO THE
RADIO IN CANADA EVERY WEEK, SO
IT'S STILL A VERY VIABLE
INDUSTRY.
AND CANCON, DESPITE ALL THE
GRUMBLING IN THE '70S BECAUSE WE
WERE PUTTING OUT SOME REALLY
SUBSTANDARD STUFF, FORCED TO
PLAY THIS NEXT TO THE BEST
ARTISTS IN THE WORLD, CANCON FOR
RADIO, FOR MUSIC, HAS BEEN A
WILD SUCCESS.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS EVER
GOING TO SAY THAT, WELL, WE
DON'T NEED CANCON ON THE RADIO
BECAUSE, A, IT'S THE RIGHT THING
TO DO, AND B, THERE'S A
TREMENDOUS APPETITE FOR IT.
WE HAVE A VIBRANT, DOMESTIC
MUSIC SCENE.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF ARTISTS,
LOOK AT THE TRAGICALLY HIP, WERE
VERY SUCCESSFUL AND VERY
PROFITABLE...

Steve says ONLY BECAUSE OF CANCON?

Alan says MAINLY BECAUSE OF CANCON.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT MUCH REACH
OUTSIDE OF OUR BORDERS.
THEN WE HAVE ARTISTS LIKE JUSTIN
BIEBER AND THE WEEKND AND DRAKE
AND SARAH MCLAUGHLIN AND SHANIA
TWAIN AND CELINE DION.
ALL THESE ARTISTS ARE CANADIAN
WHO HAVE MANAGED TO COME UP
THROUGH OUR SYSTEM AND THEN
BREAK OUT WORLDWIDE.
FOR A COUNTRY OF OUR SIZE AND
POPULATION NEXT TO THE UNITED
STATES, WE HAVE NO BUSINESS
BEING AS SUCCESSFUL AS WE ARE ON
THE MUSIC STAGE.
BUT A LOT OF THAT IT TO DO WITH
OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND OUR
CULTURAL SUPPORT AND OUR
FINANCIAL SUPPORT.

Steve says WHAT I INFER FROM YOUR
COMMENT, THAT WITHOUT THE CANCON
REGULATIONS, REQUIRING
BROADCASTERS TO PLAY X NUMBER OF
MINUTES, HOURS, SONGS,
ET CETERA, YOU DON'T THINK THESE
ARTISTS COULD HAVE BROKEN OUT
OTHERWISE?

Alan says WELL, IT'S TAKEN DECADES FOR
THIS SYSTEM TO COME INTO ITS OWN.
AND I THINK IT WOULD... IF
BROADCASTERS WANTED TO CUT THEIR
CANCON RIGHT NOW, I THINK THAT
THEY WOULD HEAR FROM THE
AUDIENCE BECAUSE WE HAVE
DEVELOPED, AS A NATION, A
STRONG, STRONG AFFECTION FOR
HOMEGROWN ARTISTS.
SO WHETHER IT'S 30 percent, 35 percent OR 40 percent,
NOBODY'S COMPLAINING ABOUT IT
ANYMORE.

Steve says HMM.

Alan says BECAUSE WE LIKE THEM.
WE DO LIKE THEM.
AND IF YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT'S
NOT OFFERED, WELL THEN NOW WE
HAVE THESE OPTIONS, ON-LINE
OPTIONS, WHICH IS WHERE THINGS
BEGIN TO GET STICKY.

Steve says WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT
THAT STICKINESS HERE.
THE FAANGS, AS THEY'RE CALLED,
FACEBOOK, AMAZON, APPLE,
NETFLIX, GOOGLE.
I WANT TO SHOW YOU A LITTLE CLIP
HERE, THE FORMER BROADCASTING
EXECUTIVE WHO WAS ON THIS
PROGRAM NOT TOO LONG AGO TALKING
ABOUT THE INFILL RATION INTO
CANADA OF THE FAANGS.
SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "April 24, 2019. Richard Stursberg."
In the clip, Richard talks in the studio. He's in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair and rounded glasses.

He says THERE ARE VAMPIRES IN THE
CULTURE IN THE SENSE THAT THEY
COME, THEY SET UP IN CANADA.
THEY DO NOT PAY TAXES IN CANADA.
ALL THE CANADIAN MEDIA COMPANIES
OBVIOUSLY PAY TAXES.
THEY HAVE DRAINED BETWEEN
FACEBOOK AND AMAZON THEY HAVE
DRAINED 50 percent OF THE MEDIA
ADVERTISING MARKET OUT OF CANADA
AND REDIRECTED THE MONEY NOW TO
SILICON VALLEY.

Steve says BUT CLEARLY THEY ARE
PROVIDING SOMETHING PEOPLE
DESPERATELY WANT, WHICH IS WHY
THEY'RE SO SUCCESSFUL.

Richard says NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.
AND THAT'S FINE, BUT THEY SHOULD
NOT BE ALLOWED TO OPERATE
ENJOYING SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGES
THAT NO CANADIAN COMPANY HAS TO
OFFER.
ALL THE CANADIAN COMPANIES PAY
TAX.
THEY RESPECT THE FOREIGN
OWNERSHIP RULES.
THEY MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS TO
CANADIAN CULTURE.
THE FAANGS DO NONE OF THESE
THINGS, SO THEY ARE KIND OF FREE
RIDERS WITHIN THE ECONOMY.

The clip ends.
The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."
Then, it changes again to "Why it was needed."

Steve says RICHARD STURSBERG, THE
FORMER BROADCASTING EXECUTIVE.
KATHERINE TATE CALLED NETFLIX IN
CANADA CULTURAL IMPERIALISM.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING OUT THERE
IN THE MEDIA ECO-SPHERE ABOUT
WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIX
THIS ISSUE ABOUT THE DIGITAL
GIANTS, IN HIS WORDS, FREE
RIDING IN OUR SYSTEM?

The caption changes to "Susan Krashinsky Robertson, @susinsky."

Susan says WELL, THIS IS A CHORUS THAT
ECHOES ACROSS THE INDUSTRY.
BROADCASTERS, CABLE COMPANIES
HAVE BEEN UP IN ARMS ABOUT THE
FACT THAT THE PLAYING FIELD IS
NO LONGER LEVEL, IN THEIR WORDS,
THAT THEY HAVE ALL THESE
OBLIGATIONS.
TECH GIANTS ARE ABLE TO COMPETE
WITH THEM.
THEY HAVE DEEP POCKETS.
THEY ARE ALREADY SPENDING
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON CONTENT
WHERE CANADIAN BROADCASTERS
DON'T HAVE THOSE KINDS OF
BUDGETS, SO THEY ARE COMPETING
ALREADY WITH UNLEVEL RESOURCES,
AND THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
HAVING ALSO REQUIREMENTS THAT
AREN'T LEVEL.
AND SO YOU SAW... IN FRONT OF
THE CRTC JUST LAST WEEK SAYING
THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND IT
NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY RE-BUILT.
HE HAS HIS OWN AGENDA, OF
COURSE, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING
THAT MANY PEOPLE WITHIN THE
INDUSTRY AGREE ON, THAT WE
CANNOT CONTINUE... WHATEVER YOU
THINK OF CANCON, WE CAN'T
CONTINUE TO COMPETE IN AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE ONE SET OF
PLAYERS HAS VERY SIGNIFICANT
OBLIGATIONS AND ANOTHER SET OF
PLAYERS DOES NOT.

Steve says WHAT DOES THE C.D.
HOWE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS?

Daniel says WELL, I AGREE WITH THAT LAST
STATEMENT, YOU KNOW.
THE PLAYING FIELD IS NOT
LEVELLED.
ONE THING THAT WE JUST TO TAKE
THAT OFF THE TABLE, IF THAT'S
EVEN POSSIBLE, BUT ON TAXES,
OBVIOUSLY WE ARE FOR A LEVEL
PLAYING FIELD.
WE DO THINK PEOPLE THAT CONSUME
NETFLIX AND iTUNES NOW CHARGES
CANADIAN TAXES.
WE DO THINK THAT THAT SHOULD
OCCUR.
IDEALLY.
DIFFICULT POLITICALLY, BECAUSE
PEOPLE LIKE THEIR NETFLIX, AND
TO ME THAT IS A CHALLENGE.

Steve says YOU KNOW WHAT A
NETFLIX TAX WOULD BE, RIGHT?
IT'S ABOUT A BUCK AND A HALF A
MONTH STURSBERG SAYS TO MAKE AN
EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

Daniel says AND WE'VE PUBLISHED A PAPER
SAYING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.
BUT POLITICALLY IT'S A BIT OF A
FOOTBALL BECAUSE PEOPLE DO LIKE
THE CONTENT, AND SOME OF IT I
WOULD SAY IS VERY... IS QUITE
GOOD.
SO IT GOES BACK TO THE MIND
SHARE AND WHAT DO WE DO TO
FULFILL THE PURPOSE OF PUBLIC
POLICY, WHICH IS, IN FACT, A
GOOD ECONOMIC PUBLIC POLICY
PURPOSE, WHICH IS TO PROVIDE AND
CONNECT CANADIAN AUDIENCES WITH
CANADIAN CONTENT, AND THAT IS A
CHALLENGE.
IT'S THE CONNECTION.
WE NEED TO SUBSIDIZE THE
PRODUCTION.
BUT IT'S THE CONNECTION PART
THAT IS NOW BEING... BECOMING A
BIT WOBBLY.

Susan says AND THE WATERS HAVE BEEN
MUDDIED HERE BY POLITICAL
TALKING POINTS.
SO WHEN YOU HEAR THE PHRASE NED
FLICKS TAX, WHAT WE'RE REALLY
TALKING ABOUT THERE IS REQUIRING
NETFLIX TO REMIT THE SALES TAX
ON ITS SUBSCRIPTIONS, WHICH IS A
TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN
ASKING THEM TO PAY INTO THE
SYSTEM AND EITHER SUPPORT
CANADIAN CONTENT FINANCIALLY OR
MAKE IT WHAT'S CALLED MORE
DISCOVERABLE ON THEIR PLATFORM,
ESSENTIALLY PROMOTE IT ON THEIR
PLATFORM.
THIS HAS ALL COME UNDER THE
UMBRELLA OF NETFLIX TAX, AND
IT'S BEEN A WAY OF MAKING PEOPLE
AFRAID OF PAYING MORE MONEY FOR
THIS SYSTEM.
BUT THEY ARE TWO FUNDAMENTALLY
SEPARATE ISSUES.

Alan says AND SAME THING WITH MUSIC.
RADIO IS FIGHTING AGAINST
STREAMING MUSIC SERVICES.
SPOTIFY DOESN'T PAY HST ON ANY
PURCHASES IN CANADA.
NEITHER DOES APPLE MUSIC.
NEITHER DOES TIDAL OR RHAPSODY.
THEY ARE ALL TAX FREE, AND
AGAIN, IT'S A BUCK AND A HALF.
IT JUST SEEMS WEIRD... YOU KNOW,
CANADIAN BROADCASTERS, RADIO
PEOPLE... I MEAN, I USED TO
WRITE CHEQUES WHEN I WAS
PROGRAMMING FOR HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR THAT
THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TO PAY.
AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE,
AGAIN, I SAID RADIO WAS POPULAR,
POWERFUL AND PROFITABLE.
HOWEVER, WE'RE A LEGACY
INDUSTRY, AND LIKE MANY OTHER
LEGACY INDUSTRIES, WE'RE TRYING
TO ADAPT TO THE NEW DIGITAL
REALITIES, BUT IT'S THE
EQUIVALENT OF TRYING TO CHANGE
THE WINGS WHEN YOU'RE CRUISING
AT 38,000 FEET, SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

Steve says SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO?

Alan says WELL, THAT'S A MULTI-BILLION
DOLLAR QUESTION.
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS ADAPT TO
THE NEW TECHNOLOGY IN WAYS THAT
CO-OPT IT OR SOMEHOW INTEGRATE
IT WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING WHILE
AT THE SAME TIME MAKING SURE
THAT EVERYBODY THAT IS PLAYING
IN OUR SPACE AND THE TRADITIONAL
CULTURAL GATEKEEPERS ARE NO
LONGER PENALIZED FOR BEING
TRADITIONAL CULTURAL
GATEKEEPERS.

Daniel says TO ME, THAT LEADS TO US TO A
MODEL WHERE I THINK WE COULD ALL
AGREE ON THE TAX PORTION, NUMBER ONE.
IT'S POLITICALLY DIFFICULT.
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.

Alan says WHY IS IT POLITICALLY
DIFFICULT WHEN YOU COULD COME AT
THIS FROM A NATIONALISTIC POINT
OF VIEW?
I COULD STAND UP IN PARLIAMENT
AND SAY, LOOK, THESE FOREIGN
COUNTRIES ARE SIPHONING AWAY
CANADIAN DOLLARS INTO SILICON
VALLEY, WHATEVER.

Daniel says AND THEY DON'T PAY TAX.

Alan says THEY DON'T PAY TAX.
I MEAN, HOW DO YOU ARGUE AGAINST THAT?

Steve says YOU COULD RUN ON IT.

Alan says DON'T TEMPT ME.

[Laughter].

Daniel says AND I THINK THAT ON THE TAX
QUESTION, I THINK WE ALL AGREE,
IT'S A TOUGH NUT TO CRACK, BUT
IT SHOULD BE DONE.
AND THAT WOULD GENERATE SOME
REVENUES THAT THE GOVERNMENT
COULD POTENTIALLY REDIRECT TO
SUBSIDIZE PRODUCTION.
AND TO ME, THAT'S A CHALLENGE,
AND SO YOU KNOW, IT'S THE
PRODUCTION ASPECT, THE INDUSTRY
ASPECT.
WE NEED THAT.
BUT THAT IS ONLY ONE PART OF THE
CHALLENGE, AND THE BIGGER
CHALLENGE REMAINS: WHAT KIND OF
RULES THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE IN
PLACE, IF ANY.
I COULD ARGUE BETWEEN NONE,
INCENTIVES, YES, BUT NOT RULES
OR OBLIGATIONS, TO CONNECT THAT
TO CANADIAN CONTENT WITH THE
CANADIAN PUBLIC OR AN
INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC, WHICH IS
THE REAL PURPOSE OF...
[INDISCERNIBLE]
OTHERWISE WHY HAVE ANY?

Steve says LET ME SUGGEST ABOUT
WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
HERE IS ONLY HALF THE PROBLEM,
THE ISSUE OF A LEVEL PLAYING
FIELD BETWEEN THE FAANGS AND OUR
DOMESTIC CONTENT CARRIERS.
THE OTHER PART OF THE PROBLEM IS
OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED
STATES.
THE CURRENT PRIME MINISTER'S DAD
SAID THIS IN 1967 ABOUT
RELATIONS WITH THE STATES.
LIVING NEXT TO YOU IS IN SOME
WAYS LIKE SLEEPING WITH AN
ELEPHANT.
NO MATTER HOW FRIENDLY AND EVEN
TEMPERED IS THE BEAST, IF I CAN
CALL IT THAT, ONE IS AFFECTED BY
EVERY TWITCH AND GRUNT.
SO HOW DO WE MAINTAIN GOOD
RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED
STATES, WHO WILL SCREAM BLOODY
MURDER IF WE WERE TO TRY TO PUT
A TAX ON SOME OF THESE STREAMING
SERVICES, ET CETERA?
IS THAT A PROBLEM?

Alan says WELL, IT WAS A PROBLEM WITH
THE U.S. MCA, WASN'T IT?

Steve says YEAH A LITTLE BIT.

Susan says YEAH.

Steve says A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT.
THEY'RE GOING TO SCREAM
BLOODY MURDER IF WE TRY TO DO THAT.

Alan says WELL, THIS PARTICULAR
ADMINISTRATION WILL.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO
STAND UP FOR OURSELVES.
AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT
DOESN'T ALLOW US TO BE
COMPLETELY SNOWBALLED BY THE
REST OF THE WORLD.

Steve says I MEAN, 35 YEARS AGO
WHEN THE NORTH AMERICA... WELL,
FIRST WHEN THE FREE TRADE
AGREEMENT WAS BEING NEGOTIATED
AN THEN NAFTA AFTER THAT, THE
NOTION THAT OUR CULTURAL
INDUSTRIES OUGHT TO HAVE SOME
KIND OF DISTINCTIVE TREATMENT
AND THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF
CANADA OUGHT TO BE ALLOWED TO
CONTINUE TO SUBSIDIZE THEM, THAT
WAS EXTREMELY CONTENTIOUS IN
THOSE NEGOTIATIONS IN THE LATE
1980S, AND IT'S NO LESS
CONTENTIOUS TODAY, I WOULD SUGGEST.
DO WE JUST GO BEAT THAT DRUMANYWAY?

Daniel says YEAH.
SO THE USMCA DOES CONTINUE THE
CULTURAL EXEMPTION THAT WE HAD
IN THE NAFTA.
A GOOD QUESTION AS TO WHETHER
IT'S AS STRONG AS THE BILATERAL
DEAL.
THAT'S STILL UNDER DISCUSSION.
I THINK SUBSIDIZING CULTURAL
PRODUCTION, WHICH U.S. DOES, BY
THE WAY, IN DIFFERENT WAYS,
ALSO, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE.
TAXING FAIRLY A FOREIGN
CORPORATION, THAT IS TO SAY IN
EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT YOU
TAX THE DOMESTIC CORPORATION,
THAT IS ALSO NOT AN ISSUE.
WHAT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE IS IF YOU
SAY: OUR PRODUCERS, OUR
CANADIAN-OWNED PRODUCERS HAVE TO
CONTRIBUTE TO A PRODUCTION FUND,
FOR EXAMPLE, MEDIA FUND, AND
YOUR CORPORATION ALSO HAS TO.
THAT MIGHT BE PERCEIVED AS, YOU
KNOW, AN UNFAIR SUBSIDY, IF YOU
LIKE, ON CANADIAN CULTURE.
BUT ON THE TAXATION AND THE
SUBSIDIZATION SIDE, AND ON
CANADIAN CONTENT, ESSENTIALLY
BEING TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN
U.S. CONTENT, FROM THOSE
PERSPECTIVES, THERE IS WIDE
BERTH.
SO THAT WOULD BE MY CONTENTION.
THE U.S. DOES NOT HAVE A LOT OF
ROOM TO MANOEUVRE THERE USING
TRADE AGREEMENTS, AS MUCH AS
PEOPLE THINK.
THEY ARE BIG, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY
DO THE SAME THING IN A LOT OF
CASES.

Steve says WHAT WOULD HAPPEN,
ALAN, IF WE JUST GOT RID OF
CANADIAN CONTENT REGULATIONS TODAY?

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Alan says WELL, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF
ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY
THAT OWE THEIR EXISTENCE TO
CANADIAN CONTENT ORGANIZATIONS,
SO THEY WOULD SCREAM BLOODY
MURDER BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE
PHASED OUT OF EXISTENCE AND LOSE
ALL THEIR... EVERYBODY WOULD
LOSE THOSE JOBS.
I THINK, LIKE I SAID EARLIER,
YOU WOULD SEE AN OUTCRY FROM
CANADIANS WHO ARE UPSET THAT
THEY NO LONGER HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR CANADIAN
MATERIAL ON A REGULAR BASIS.
AND I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE A
REAL PROBLEM WITHIN THE LIVE AND
RECORDING MUSIC INDUSTRIES,
BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE NO
REASON TO EXIST IN THE CURRENT STATE.

Steve says BUT THE INFERENCE I
DRAW FROM YOUR ANSWER THERE IS
THAT IF WE DIDN'T OBLIGE
BROADCASTERS TO PLAY CANADIAN
CONTENT, THEY WOULDN'T.
AND IS THAT TRUE?

Alan says WELL, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
THE CASE MANY YEARS AGO.
I DON'T THINK IT'S THE CASE NOW.

Steve says SO THEN WHY DO WE NEED THE REGS?

Alan says I THINK YOU NEED SOME SORT OF
SAFETY NET, SOME... MAYBE... I
DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROPER
LEVEL, PROPER QUOTA IS.
I MEAN, THAT IS A DEBATE THAT'S
BEEN GOING ON FOR A VERY LONG
TIME.
IS IT 15 percent, 25 percent, 30 percent, 35 percent, 50 percent?
THAT'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION.
BUT I THINK CANADIAN
BROADCASTERS WOULD DO IT ANYWAY.
AS TO HOW MUCH THEY WOULD DO
WOULD PROBABLY ERODE OVER TIME,
WHICH IS MY CONCERN.
AND IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE
EVERYBODY ALL AT ONCE.
IT WOULD BE A COUPLE OF OUTLIERS
WHO WOULD PUSH IT, PUSH IT, PUSH
IT, AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE AN
AMERICAN-STYLE SOUNDING RADIO
STATION, WHICH WOULD EXCLUDE ALL
CANADIAN STUFF, AND THAT'S A BAD
IDEA.

Steve says SUSAN, IN YOUR
CONVERSATIONS ON THIS ISSUE, DO
YOU HEAR FROM CORPORATE... FROM
THE CORPORATE SECTOR THAT THEY'D
LOVE TO GET OUT FROM UNDER THE
OBLIGATIONS OF PLAYING MORE
CANADIAN CONTENT?

Susan says I THINK ABSOLUTELY THEY'D
LOVE TO GET OUT FROM UNDER THE
OBLIGATIONS OF HAVING TO SPEND
MONEY ON IT.
I THINK PARTICULARLY THE PRIVATE
BROADCASTERS, FOR MANY YEARS,
HAVE ESSENTIALLY MADE CANADIAN
CONTENT UNDER DURESS.
THAT SAID, MANY OF THEM WOULD
DISAGREE WITH ME AND SAY, NO,
NO, NO, WE LOVE CANADIAN
CONTENT, WE LOVE MAKING IT, BUT
THERE WAS A VERY LUCRATIVE MODEL
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS WHERE THE
TV BROADCASTERS WENT DOWN TO
HOLLYWOOD, ESSENTIALLY BOUGHT
THE RIGHTS TO THE AMERICAN
SHOWS, THE REALLY BUZZED-ABOUT
AMERICAN SHOWS, AND HAD THE
EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO BROADCAST IT
HERE, AND THAT WAS WHAT THEIR
BUSINESS WAS BASED ON.
EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE
SUBSCRIBER FEES, ADVERTISING
REVENUE, ALL THE THINGS THAT
FLOWED BACK INTO THE CANADIAN
SYSTEM.
THAT, AGAIN, IT'S DECLINING.
HOUSEHOLD SUBSCRIPTIONS,
TELEVISION SUBSCRIPTIONS HAVE
BEEN DECLINING NOW FOR MANY,
MANY YEARS.
PEOPLE ARE CUTTING THE CORD.

Steve says CORD CUTTING, YES.

Susan says OR THEY ARE CORD NEVERS.
A YOUNG GENERATION WHO HAS JUST
NEVER FELT THE NEED TO HAVE A
TELEVISION SUBSCRIPTION.
WHAT WE DO KNOW FOR SURE IS THAT
THE ECONOMIC MODEL IS
FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING.
THE NETFLIXS OF THE WORLD WOULD
ARGUE YOU DON'T NEED CANADIAN
CONTENT REGULATIONS.
LOOK AT ALL THE WONDERFUL
CANADIAN CONTENT THAT WE'RE
PROMOTING.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE WONDERFUL
CBC COMEDY HAS FOUND A WIDER
AUDIENCE THROUGH SECONDARY
DISTRIBUTION ON NETFLIX.

Alan says LET'S NOT EVEN TALK ABOUT THE
TRAILER PACK BOYS.

Susan says THERE YOU GO.
AND NETFLIX WOULD ALSO TOUT
THEIR CO-PRODUCTIONS OF THINGS
LIKE AL GAS GRACE.
NOW SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE
SUSPICIOUS WOULD SAY THEY ARE
DOING THAT ACTIVELY BECAUSE
RIGHT NOW THEY ARE IN AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY ARE
TRYING TO STAVE OFF REGULATION.
THEY WOULD SAY, NO, IT'S BECAUSE
WE GENUINELY WANT TO MAKE THESE
STORIES.
SO WE'RE IN A REAL MOMENT RIGHT
NOW WHERE THE FUNDAMENTAL
ECONOMIC MODEL IS CHANGING.
YOU HAVE THESE NEW PLAYERS
COMING IN, AND WE HAVE TO DECIDE
WHAT THE SYSTEM IS GOING TO LOOK
LIKE.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY BEING TALKED
ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
THE BROADCASTING ACT, THE LAW
THAT GOVERNS THIS ENTIRE
INDUSTRY, INCLUDING THE MANDATE
OF THE CBC, THE MANDATE OF THE
CRTC, THAT IS ALL UNDER THE
AUSPICES OF THE BROADCASTING
ACT, AND THAT'S BEEN OPENED UP
FOR REVIEW.
SO A PANEL IS EXAMINING HOW THE
BROADCASTING ACT COULD OR SHOULD
CHANGE RIGHT NOW.
THEY ARE GOING TO PRODUCE A
REPORT NEXT MONTH, AND THEN IT
WILL BE UP TO THE GOVERNMENT TO
DECIDE, DO WE NEED TO
FUNDAMENTALLY UPEND HOW THESE
REGULATIONS HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES?

Alan says AND THEN WE HAVE AN ELECTION.

Steve says I WAS GOING TO SAY,
THAT PRESENTS AN INTERESTING
PROBLEM AND OPPORTUNITY FOR ANY
PARTY GOING INTO THE NEXT
ELECTION, WHICH IS ONLY SIX
MONTHS AWAY.
YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING COMES
BACK THAT'S EXTREMELY CULTURALLY
NATIONALISTIC, THAT'S SOMETHING
YOU MAY WANT TO RUN ON.

Susan says THEY'RE GOING TO PUNT THE
FOOTBALL ON THAT, THOUGH.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN ELECTION
ISSUE.
I DON'T THINK THEY WANT TO MUDDY
THOSE WATERS WITH TALK ABOUT
CANADIAN CONTENT IN AN ELECTION
CYCLE.
I THINK THAT IF ANYTHING... ANY
ACTION THAT WAS TAKEN AS A
RESULT OF THAT REPORT WOULD
HAPPEN AFTER THE NEXT ELECTION
FOR SURE.

Steve says YOU TALK TO THE
FEDERAL FINANCE MINISTER, BILL MORNEAU?

Alan says I DID ON A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.
HE WAS ON A LISTENING TOUR
ASKING PEOPLE WITHIN THE
INDUSTRY WHAT WE THOUGHT OF
GOING FORWARD, AND NOTHING WAS
REALLY DETERMINED DURING THESE
MEETINGS.
THEY WERE SIMPLY OPPORTUNITIES
TO DISCUSS WHAT WAS GOING ON IN
EACH OF OUR PARTICULAR AREAS OF
EXPERTISE.
AND DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT CAME
OF ALL THAT.
A COUPLE OF PEOPLE FROM THE TV
SIDE, ESPECIALLY, DID MENTION
THAT A NETFLIX TAX.
AND I MENTIONED IT, AND THERE
WAS THIS KIND OF STIFFNESS
AROUND THE TABLE, AND THEN THE
PARTY BROKE UP.

Steve says THE PARTY BROKE UP.

Alan says IF YOU CALL IT THAT, THEN IT
WILL, YES.
I WANT...

Steve says CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT QUEBEC?
QUEBEC... AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT FILM NOW.
QUEBEC CLEARLY HAS A MORE...
WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR.
A MORE DEVELOPED, A MORE
VIBRANT, A MORE POPULAR FILM
SCENE THAN ENGLISH CANADA DOES.
AND... GEEZ, I'M... WELL, NO,
I'M NOT GOING TO EMBARRASS
ANYBODY HERE, BUT I'M TEMPTED TO
SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WENT TO
THE CANADIAN SCREEN AWARDS, AND
I BET IF YOU WALKED DOWN YONGE
STREET AND YOU ASKED ANYBODY
WHAT WAS THE BEST PICTURE OF THE
YEAR THIS YEAR, NOBODY WOULD
KNOW IT.
IT'S A FILM FROM QUEBEC.
I THINK ALL THE NOMINATED MOVIES
THIS YEAR FOR BEST FILM WERE OUT
OF QUEBEC.
THEY HAVE A MUCH MORE DEVELOPED
FILM INDUSTRY THERE.
WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT?

The caption changes to "Nation-defining 21st century style."

Daniel says WELL, ALAN MENTIONED, YOU
KNOW, THE SAME... CULTURAL
POLICY NIRVANA THAT I ENVISAGE
WHICH IS YOU HAVE TO CONNECT
WITH YOUR BODY.

Steve says AND THEY CAN DO THAT
IN QUEBEC.

Daniel says CLEARLY THEY CAN DO THAT.
THEY DO DO THAT, AND THE
QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WHY IS
THIS NOT HAPPENING, I GUESS...
YOUR OBSERVATION, TO THE SAME
DEGREE IN ENGLISH CANADA, AND
CLEARLY IT'S A LINGUISTIC
QUESTION.

Steve says YEAH, IT'S LANGUAGE.

Daniel says BUT IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, A
LOT OF THE CULTURAL SUPPORT THAT
WE GIVE OUT IS LITERALLY TO
CREATE AN INDUSTRY, BUT THE
INDUSTRY CAN CREATE AMERICAN
MOVIES.
OR AMERICAN STARS.
OR AMERICAN SINGERS THAT ARE
COMPLETELY UNDISTINGUISHABLE
FROM THE CANADIAN ONES.
AND YOU KNOW, TO ME, THAT'S A
BIT OF OUR CHALLENGE.
SO WHEN I HEAR ALAN SAYING
CANADIAN AUDIENCE SUPPORT THEIR
CANADIAN SINGERS, SUPPORT IS NOT
THE RIGHT WORD, THEY LOVE THEM.
THAT'S IT.
THAT'S WHAT WE WANT, AND I THINK
THERE'S ACTUALLY JUST A PARALLEL
THERE WITH OUR INNOVATION
POLICY.
FOR YEARS WE WERE PUSHING R and D
TAX CREDITS, R and D.
AS LONG AS YOU DO R and D,
EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE FINE.
AND THEN SOMEBODY REALIZED WE
DON'T COMMERCIALIZE THE THING.
WE DON'T CONNECT WITH THE
PUBLIC.
AND NOW THE SUBSIDIES ARE FOR
ESTABLISHING THAT CONNECTION.
AND I THINK IF WE HAD THE SYSTEM
FOR CULTURAL POLICY PROVIDE
SUBSIDIES FOR CLUSTERS THAT,
SAY, I'M GOING TO TAKE THE
CANADIAN CONTENT AND CONNECT IT
WITH THE PUBLIC, TO ME, THAT'S
THE NEXT PHASE OF...

Steve says OKAY, BUT IT IS, ALAN,
A BIT OF AN UNFAIR COMPARISON.
QUEBEC, FRANKLY, BECAUSE IT'S
FRENCH DOES NOT HAVE TO COMPETE
WITH THE AMERICAN GIANT TO THE
SOUTH AND MUCH OF THOSE CULTURAL
INDUSTRIES.
IF PEOPLE WANT FRENCH CONTENT,
YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY ONE place
THEY CAN GET IT, AND IT'S THE
PROVINCE OF QUEBEC.

Alan says AND THEY HAVE A WELL
DEVELOPED STAR SYSTEM IN TERMS
OF THEIR MUSIC INDUSTRY.
SOMETIMES THERE IS CROSSOVER
INTO ENGLISH CANADA.
IT DOES HAPPEN SEVERAL TIMES A
YEAR, BUT YEAH, IT IS A
LINGUISTIC THING, AND IT IS A
WELL-ESTABLISHED CULTURAL THING
IN TERMS OF THE STAR SYSTEM THAT
THEY HAVE BUILT WITH MUSIC.
WE DON'T TALK ABOUT ALBUM SALES
MUCH ANYMORE, BUT I WOULD LOOK
AT THE... [INDISCERNIBLE] IN ANY
GIVEN WEEK A NUMBER OF YEARS
AGO, AND THE NUMBER ONE ALBUM
WOULD BE AN ARTIST I DID NOT
RECOGNIZE SELLING 20,000 RECORDS
IN ITS FIRST WEEK IN QUEBEC.

Steve says IN QUEBEC.

Alan says AND OF THOSE 20,000 RECORDS,
19,500 OF THEM WERE IN QUEBEC.

Daniel says THAT WAS ME BUYING.

Steve says YOU WERE BUYING THEM ALL.

Daniel says YEAH, EXACTLY.

Steve says I PROBABLY SHOULD
ANSWER THE QUESTION.
THE BEST PICTURE IN CANADA THIS
PAST YEAR WAS A MOVIE CALLED
"UNCOLONY" A COMING OF AGE STORY
ABOUT A 12-YEAR-OLD GIRL IN
QUEBEC.
I'M GOING TO GUESS THAT 99.9 percent OF
THE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS RIGHT
NOW HAVEN'T SEEN IT, DON'T KNOW
ABOUT IT.
MAYBE THEY SHOULD LOOK IT UP.

Alan says SO HERE'S A QUESTION ALONG
THOSE LINES.
WHY ISN'T THERE SOMETHING ON MY
CABLE TV GUIDE THAT IS ALL
CANADIAN?
WHY ISN'T THERE AN ALL-CANADIAN
CHANNEL?

Steve says WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

Alan says I DON'T KNOW.

Daniel says AREN'T THERE?

Alan says IF THERE IS, I DON'T SEE IT
ON MY SYSTEM.

Steve says WELL, IS THE CBC NOT
AN ALL-CANADIAN CHANNEL?

Alan says WELL, THE CBC, BUT WE HAVE
ALL THESE MOVIE CHANNELS, AND
THERE IS NOT...

Daniel says TVO.

Alan says TVO, BUT NO, I'M TALKING
ABOUT ESPECIALLY MOVIE CHANNELS.
WHY IS THERE NOT...

Steve says YOU WANT AN ALL CANADIAN SPECIALTY MOVIE CHANNEL?

Alan says YES.

Steve says AND WOULD YOU OBLIGE
PEOPLE TO HAVE TO CARRY IT IN
ONE OF THEIR BUNDLES?

Alan says WELL, YOU COULD PUT IT AS
A... LIKE WITH THE MUST-CARRY
TIER.
WE DO THAT WITH APTN AND THE
WEATHER NETWORK.
WE DO THAT WITH CBC NEWSWORLD.
SO WHY NOT?

Steve says CAN I... LET'S... I
WANT TO GET INTO THIS.
NOT TOO LONG AGO AT NATHAN
PHILLIPS SQUARE IN DOWNTOWN
TORONTO THERE WERE ABOUT 50
WOMEN IN RED DRESSES
GALLIVANTING IN THE SQUARE, AND
NO ONE COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS
GOING ON UNTIL SOMEBODY
REALIZED, OH, THEY ARE SHOOTING
THE HANDMAIDS TALE.
IT WAS WRITTEN BY A CANADIAN,
HAS SOME CANADIAN ACTORS IN IT.

Alan says SHOT IN CANADA.

Steve says IT'S SHOT IN CANADA.
I DON'T THINK IT'S CONSIDERED
CANADIAN CONTENT.

Susan says WELL, THIS GOES TO THE VERY
POINT AGAIN AT THE BEGINNING OF
THIS CONVERSATION.
WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT CANADIAN
CONTENT IS.
AND CANADIAN CONTENT DEFINITELY
HAS A BRANDING PROBLEM.
THAT'S EVIDENT IN THE FACT THAT
JUST RECENTLY THE CANADA MEDIA
FUND, ONE OF THE
ORGANIZATIONS... ONE OF THE
FUNDS THAT GIVES MONEY TO
PRODUCE THIS CONTENT, THEY
LAUNCHED AN ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN
CALLED "MAID" TO PROMOTE
CANADIAN CONTENT.
BUT IN THERE WAS A WHOLE BUNCH
OF STUFF.
I MEAN, THEY WERE TOUTING
ACTORS, FAMOUS HOLLYWOOD ACTORS
THAT HAVE COME OUT OF CANADA.
THEY WERE TOUTING DEADPOOL,
WHICH WAS SHOT IN VANCOUVER AND
STARS RYAN REYNOLDS, BUT IS NOT
SOMETHING THAT I THINK WOULD BE
CONSIDERED TECHNICALLY CANADIAN
CONTENT.
AND SO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT
SUPPORTING JOBS AND A FILM
INDUSTRY HERE, A TELEVISION
INDUSTRY HERE, WRITERS,
DIRECTORS, ACTORS?
OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT CANADIAN
STORIES?
AND IF SO, HOW DO WE DEFINE WHAT
CONSTITUTES A CANADIAN STORY?
THAT'S A BIG, BIG QUESTION, AND
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE EVER
EFFECTIVELY GRAPPLED WITH IT.

Steve says I THINK HANDMAID'S
TALE NOW IS CONSIDERED... IS IT
NOW CONSIDERED CANCON?
I THINK IT IS NOW.
INITIALLY IT WAS NOT, BUT YOU
CAN SEE HOW SORT OF...

Alan says WELL, THEN WE HAVE A SERIES
LIKE STAR TREK DISCOVERY WHICH
IS FILMED HERE IN TORONTO DOWN
BY THE LAKE.

Steve says AND IS FABULOUS, BY
THE WAY.

Alan says IT'S VERY GOOD.
BUT IS THAT CANADIAN CONTENT?

Daniel says WELL, CANADIAN INDUSTRY.

The caption changes to "Producer: Liane Kotler, @LianeKotler."

Steve says SO MANY THINGS TO
DISCUSS, AND SO MANY THINGS TO
FIGURE OUT, AND I'M MAKING ALL
OF YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR FIGURING
THIS OUT BY THE TIME THE YEAR IS
OVER.
ALAN CROSS FROM THE ONGOING
HISTORY OF NEW MUSIC.
SUSAN KRASHINSKY ROBERTSON FROM
"THE GLOBE AND MAIL"'S REPORT ON
BUSINESS.
DANIEL SCHWANEN, THE VP OF
RESEARCH AT THE C.D. HOWE
INSTITUTE.
GOOD TO HAVE ALL OF YOU ON TVO
TONIGHT. THANKS SO MUCH.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Daniel says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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