Transcript: The Agenda's Week in Review | May 17, 2019

Steve stands in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a black suit, white shirt, and patterned blue tie.

A wall screen behind him reads "The week in review."

Steve says THE AGENDA THIS WEEK
CONSIDERED THIS PROVINCE'S PLANS
FOR ALCOHOL LIBERALIZATION;
HEARD FROM ONTARIO'S FORMER
CHILD AND YOUTH ADVOCATE; AND
SPOKE TO MP CELINA
CAESAR-CHAVANNES ABOUT LEAVING
THE FEDERAL LIBERALS.
THE AGENDA'S WEEK IN REVIEW
BEGINS EVALUATING THE STATE OF
THE FEDERAL NDP.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits in the studio with several guests.
A caption on screen reads "The future of the NDP. Follow the Leader."

The caption changes to "Libby Davies. Former NDP MP."

Libby is in her sixties, with short wavy gray hair. She's wearing glasses, a gray jacket and a checked gray shirt.

She says THE LAST ELECTION WAS VERY
DIFFICULT.
THEN WE SORT OF SAW THE LOVE-IN
WITH TRUDEAU.
I THINK THAT'S COMPLETELY GONE.
SO WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLE
OPPORTUNITY IN THIS ELECTION TO
SHOW CANADIANS THAT THERE IS A
VERY BOLD VISION FROM THE NDP,
THAT WE HAVE THE LEADER... WE
HAVE SOME GREAT CANDIDATES WHO
ARE SEEKING NOMINATION OR
ALREADY THE CANDIDATE.
SO I FEEL GOOD.
I'LL BE OUT THERE HELPING AS
WELL.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says YOU KNOW, WE SPEAK
PLAINLY ON THIS PROGRAM, SO
LET'S DO THAT RIGHT NOW.
JENNIFER, HE'S THE FIRST
RACIALIZED LEADER OF A MAJOR
POLITICAL PARTY IN CANADIAN
HISTORY.
THAT WILL BE A PROBLEM IN SOME
PARTS OF THIS COUNTRY.
HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT THAT?

The caption changes to "Jennifer Hollett. Former NDP Candidate."

Jennifer is in her late thirties, with shoulder-length red hair. She's wearing a pale green blazer over a white shirt, and a pendant necklace.

She says IT MATTERS AND IT'S ALSO AN
OPPORTUNITY.
SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE ACROSS THE
COUNTRY CAN LOOK TO JAGMEET AND
SEE THAT THEY CAN BE A PART OF
POLITICS.
I REMEMBER AS A YOUNG PERSON
GROWING UP, I GOT INTO POLITICS
ACTUALLY AS A MUCH MUSIC DEEJAY
AND I WAS ASSIGNED TO COVER A
FEDERAL ELECTION, AND WE
EXTENDED AN INVITE, IF YOU CAN
BELIEVE, HALF AN HOUR ON MUCH
MUSIC TO ALL THE PARTY LEADERS,
AND ONLY TWO PARTY LEADERS SAID
YES.
SO NO SURPRISE, JACK LAYTON AND
THE NDP AND A SHOUT OUT TO JIM
HARRIS AND THE GREENS CAME ON.
WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM THE
CONSERVATIVES.
WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM THE
LIBERALS.
I REMEMBER AS A YOUNG PERSON
THAT I WASN'T REPRESENTED.
AND THIS IS AS A YOUNG WHITE
WOMAN.
THERE ARE YOUNG WHITE WOMEN IN
POLITICS.
ALREADY THERE'S A DISCONNECT IN
TERMS OF THE ISSUE AND THE
REPRESENTATION, IN THAT PLAIN
LANGUAGE, HOW WE TALK ABOUT
THINGS.
IT IS A GAME CHANGER TO SEE NOT
JUST A RACIALIZED MAN BUT A
TURBAN, BROWN, SIKH MAN OUT IN
THE COMMUNITY BRINGING THE
PASSION, THE VISION, AND THE
LEADERSHIP THAT IS JAGMEET
SINGH.
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BRING A
LOT OF PEOPLE INTO THE PARTY.
WE SAW THAT WITH THIS LEADERSHIP
RACE.
WE SEE NEW PEOPLE AS MEMBERS OF
THE PARTY.
WE SEE NEW CANDIDATES COMING IN.
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST TALK
ABOUT DIVERSITY.
YOU CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT
GROWING THE PARTY.
YOU HAVE TO BE IT.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE
NEW CANDIDATES SEEKING A
NOMINATION.
IF HE WASN'T THE LEADER OF THE
PARTY, WOULD YOU BE AS
INTERESTED IN SEEKING THAT
NOMINATION?

The caption changes to "Paul Taylor. Foodshare."

Paul is in his thirties, shaven-headed, with a full beard. He's wearing glasses and a black shirt.

He says I MIGHT NOT BE.
I REMEMBER GROWING UP OUR MOTHER
ALWAYS SAT US IN FRONT OF THE
TELEVISION, WHEN THE CBC AT
ISSUE PANEL WAS SPEAKING,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND FOR THE
LONGEST TIME I LOOKED AND
WATCHED AND SAID, HUH, POLITICS
IS SOMETHING ONLY WHITE MEN DO.
THAT WAS MY TAKE OF POLITICS.
A FEW YEARS LATER, WHITE WOMEN
ALWAYS DO POLITICS AS WELL.
I NEVER THOUGHT OF MYSELF AS A
LOW INCOME KID GROWING UP IN
DOWNTOWN TORONTO, I NEVER SAW
MYSELF IN THESE SITUATIONS.
AS JENNIFER SAID, IT'S A
SIGNIFICANT MOMENT IN TIME WHEN
A LOT OF FOLKS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY ARE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE
PARTY LEADER WHO NOT ONLY
REFLECTS THE TONE OF THEIR SKIN
BUT ALSO SOME OF THEIR LIVED
EXPERIENCES WITH DARKER SKIN.
I THINK THAT'S REALLY EXCITING.
I'M ALSO REALLY EXCITED WHEN I
HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER
FOLKS WHO ARE INSPIRED TO RUN
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO FOR THE
FIRST TIME MANY OF THEM ARE
SAYING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A
PARTY THAT DOES REFLECT OUR
VALUES, THAT WE CAN GET INVOLVED
IN, THAT WE CAN PUSH AND REALLY
BE A MEANINGFUL PART OF.
I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS DOWN TO
REALLY INSPIRING LEADERSHIP.

Steve says CAMERON, HAVING SAID
THAT, YOU KNOW, MONEY TALKS IN
POLITICS, AND AT THE MOMENT, THE
MONEY IS NOT COMING IN.
WHY NOT?

The caption changes to "Cameron Holmstrom. Bluesky Strategy Group. Magpie Brülé."

Cameron is in his forties, with short brown hair and a stubble. He's wearing a gray suit and shirt, and a checkered purple tie.

He says I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
ISSUES ON THAT FRONT.
I THINK SOME OF IT IS A HANGOVER
FROM WHAT HAPPENED TOWARDS THE
END OF THE PREVIOUS LEADERSHIP
OF THE PARTY.
THAT DID LEAVE OBVIOUSLY A
DEARTH OF MONEY IN THE BANK BUT
ALSO, FRANKLY, WE LOST A LOT OF
GOOD PEOPLE.
A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE WENT
ELSEWHERE.
WHEN WE LOST OFFICIAL OPPOSITION
STATUS, WE LOST A LOT OF GOOD
PEOPLE.
WE HAVE NEVER COME BACK FROM
THAT WHOLE EXPERIENCE.
TO ME THAT WAS ONE OF THE
REASONS WHY I SUPPORTED JAGMEET,
WAS HIS ABILITY TO ORGANIZE.
WHEN I SAW HIM SIGNING UP SO
MANY PEOPLE.
I KNOW WHEN I WAS HELPING RUN
PAT STOGRAN'S CAMPAIGN AT THE
VERY START, THE NUMBER WE HAD
IN OUR HEAD TO BE ABLE TO SIGN
THE NEW MEMBERS BILL TO WIN WAS
ABOUT 50,000. AND JAGMEET GOT
JUST UNDER 50,000 VOTES. THAT'S
WHAT HIS TEAM DID AND TO THEIR
CREDIT, I WAS ALWAYS OF THE
BELIEF, OKAY, IF YOU CAN
ORGANIZE LIKE THAT HERE, THAT
CAN TRANSLATE OVER TO THE PARTY SIDE.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Cameron continues UNFORTUNATELY THIS HASN'T
HAPPENED YET, FOR VARIOUS
REASONS.
SOME THINGS HAVE GOTTEN IN THE
WAY, SOME ISSUES HAVE GOTTEN IN
THE WAY.
IT STILL DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT
THAT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE.
THAT DOES LEAVE US BEHIND THE
8-BALL GOING INTO THE CAMPAIGN
AND THAT DOES LEAVE ME WORRIED.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with different guests.
A caption on screen reads "Ontario's alcohol affair. Change on the horizon."

Steve says LET'S FOLLOW UP ON
CONSUMER CHOICE.
IS AVAILABILITY OF SUPPLY REALLY
A PROBLEM IN THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO TODAY?

The caption changes to "Heather Bone. Consumer Choice Center."

Heather is in her thirties, with shoulder-length wavy chestnut hair. She's wearing a black shirt.

She says I THINK SO BASED ON THE FACT
THAT POLLING HAS INDICATED THAT
THE MAJORITY OF ONTARIANS DO
WANT TO SEE A CHALLENGE TO THE
NEAR MONOPOLY OF THE LCBO AND
THE BEER STORE.

Steve says IT'S TRUE, WE'RE NOT
LIKE QUEBEC.

Heather says RIGHT.

Steve says YOU CAN'T GO BUY
BEER OR WINE OR SPIRITS AT YOUR
LOCAL STORE, AS YOU CAN IN
QUEBEC.
SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT'S AN
ADVANTAGE IN ONTARIO.
YOU DON'T THINK SO?

The caption changes to "Heather Bone, @heatherlbone."

Heather says I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK IT ACTUALLY HURTS POOR
PEOPLE MORE THAN WE REALIZE.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU
HAVE A HIGH INCOME, YOU CAN GO
TO THE LCBO OR THE BEER STORE
AND BUY A LARGE QUANTITY OF
ALCOHOL AT ONE TIME AND YOU
DON'T HAVE TO GO AND WAIT IN
LINES VERY OFTEN.
BUT IF YOU'RE OF A LOWER
SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS, THE
INCONVENIENCE CAUSED BY THE LCBO
AND THE BEER STORE HURT MORE
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO MAKE MORE
FREQUENT TRIPS.

Steve says THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO FINANCE MINISTER IN
PARTICULAR, VIC FEDELI, OFTEN
MAKES THE POINT THAT THERE ARE
THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS AND
THOUSANDS MORE AVAILABILITY
OPPORTUNITIES IN QUEBEC THAN
THERE IS IN ONTARIO AND HE'S
TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
THAT.
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW?

The caption changes to "Pegeen Walsh. Ontario Public Health Association."

Pegeen is in her late fifties, with blond hair in a bob. She's wearing a blue blazer, white shirt, and silver pendant necklace.

She says I FEEL THERE'S THIS MYTH
THAT, OH, WE SHOULD BE LIKE
OTHER JURISDICTIONS, QUEBEC,
ALBERTA, WHERE THEY'VE
PRIVATIZED, THEY'VE MADE IT EASY
ACCESS.
IN FACT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
DATA IN TERMS OF HEALTH HARM, IT
IS VERY TROUBLING.
THEY HAVE HIGH RATES OF
CONSUMPTION, HIGH RATES OF
HOSPITALIZATION.
GREAT, YOU'RE GETTING ACCESS.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND WHAT'S NOT
APPARENT OFTEN TO OUR
COMMUNITIES IS WHAT THAT MEANS
IN TERMS OF THE HEALTH HARMS.
SO FOR MOST PEOPLE, THEY DON'T
HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ALCOHOL.
BUT IF WE HAVE OVER 20 percent OF
ONTARIANS THAT HAVE PROBLEMATIC
USE OF ALCOHOL, THEN WE NEED TO
TALK ABOUT THAT AND WE NEED TO
ADDRESS THAT, AND WE KNOW FROM
RESEARCH THAT THE MORE YOU MAKE
ALCOHOL AVAILABLE, THE MORE
PEOPLE CONSUME, IT THE MORE THEY
CONSUME, THEN THE MORE THEY'RE
HARMED.

Steve says JORDAN, DO WE HAVE
AN AVAILABILITY PROBLEM IN ONTARIO?

The caption changes to "Jordan Saint John. Co-Host, 'Ontario craft beer guide – The podcast.'"

Jordan is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with mid-parted brown hair. He's wearing a blue shirt and a gray sweater vest.

He says I'M GOING TO TAKE AN
UNPOPULAR TACK WITH MY CRAFT
BEER AUDIENCE AND SAY WE
PROBABLY DON'T HAVE AN
AVAILABILITY PROBLEM.
I THINK THAT TWO HOURS' WORTH OF
PLANNING HAS NEVER REALLY CAUSED
ME ANY PROBLEMS IN ACQUIRING
BEER.
THINKING AHEAD A LITTLE BIT DOES
WONDERS.
WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE IS A RETAIL
OPPORTUNITY PROBLEM.
WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 360
ENTITIES IN THE PROVINCE AND NOT
A LOT OF THEM HAVE SHELF SPACE.
SO ACCESS TO MARKET FOR THE
COMPANIES INVOLVED IS A REAL
PROBLEM.
ACCESS TO ALCOHOL FOR THE PUBLIC
IS PROBABLY NOT.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says MATT, IS IT REALLY
THE CASE THAT IF YOU OFFER
PEOPLE MANY, MANY, MANY MORE
LOCATIONS FROM WHICH TO PURCHASE
ALCOHOL, ALCOHOL SALES WILL GO UP?

The caption changes to "Matt Gibson. Royal Canadian Mead."

Matt is in his thirties, with short brown hair and a trimmed beard. He's wearing glasses and a spotted blue shirt.

He says SO I DON'T HAVE ANY HARD
STATS ON THAT, BUT SORT OF TO
TAKE ON JORDAN'S POINT OF THE...
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SO MANY
BREWERIES AND CIDERIES IN
ONTARIO AND THAT'S JUST GOING TO
CONTINUE TO GROW, BUT I DON'T
THINK THAT PUTTING, YOU KNOW,
BEER IN CONVENIENCE STORES IS
ACTUALLY GOING TO GIVE THE
MAJORITY OF THOSE PRODUCERS ANY
MORE ACCESS TO MARKET BECAUSE
WHAT WE'RE SEEING... IT'S A
LOGISTICS ISSUE.
I, AS A SMALL PRODUCER, CAN ONLY
HAVE SO MANY DRIVERS OR HIRE SO
MANY THIRD PARTY COMPANIES, CAN
ONLY AFFORD TO HAVE SO MANY
SALES PEOPLE ON THE ROAD.
IF I HAVE A THOUSAND NEW
CUSTOMERS OR NET THOUSAND NEW
POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS THROUGH BEER
STORES, I CAN'T KEEP UP OF THAT.
THE BIG GUYS CAN KEEP UP WITH
THAT, THE MOLSONS AND ANHEUSER
BUSCH AND OTHERS.
THE SMALL GUYS, UNLESS YOU HAVE
A CONVENIENCE STORE OWNER WHO
DECIDES I'M GOING TO OPEN A
BOUTIQUE OR FOCUS ON THESE RARE
AVAILABILITY BOTTLES AND CANS
AND PRODUCTS, WHICH COULD
HAPPEN, THERE'S SOME GREAT
PEOPLE FOCUSED ON BRINGING IN
THE GOOD STUFF.
BOREAL OR MASS MARKET LAGER.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT HAVING
CONVENIENCE STORES IS GOING TO
HELP SOMEONE LIKE OUR COMPANY OR
A SMALL BREWERY OR SMALL CIDERY
GET MORE ACCESS.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says IF YOU OFFER MORE
LOCATIONS IN THE FUTURE THAN YOU
DO TODAY, DOES THAT NECESSARILY
MEAN YOU WILL SELL MORE ALCOHOL?

Heather says THE EVIDENCE ON THIS IS
PRETTY MIXED.
I'VE SEEN THINGS SUGGESTING THAT
THAT'S THE CASE.
I'VE SEEN THINGS SUGGESTING THE
OPPOSITE.
THERE IS A STUDY THAT LOOKED AT
VIRGINIA AND... WEST VIRGINIA,
SORRY, AND IOWA'S EXPERIENCE,
AND THEY FOUND THERE WAS A
REDUCTION IN PER CAPITA ALCOHOL
CONSUMPTION AND THAT IS BECAUSE
PEOPLE BOUGHT LESS BOOZE WHEN
THEY WERE MAKING MORE FREQUENT
TRIPS, WHICH ENCOURAGED THEM NOT
TO DRINK AS MUCH AT HOME.
OF COURSE, THESE QUESTIONS ARE
DIFFICULT TO ANSWER FROM AN
ECONOMICS PERSPECTIVE JUST
BECAUSE CULTURE AND A LOT OF
OTHER CONFOUNDING VARIABLES
REALLY DO IMPACT PEOPLE'S
ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION.
SO, FOR INSTANCE, WE SEE IN
EUROPE, WHERE ALCOHOL IS A LOT
MORE AVAILABLE, WAY MORE
ACCESSIBLE, FOR INSTANCE, IN
ITALY AND THEIR RATE OF PROBLEM
DRINKING IS 6.2 percent AND IN CANADA

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Heather continues IT'S 23 percent OF PEOPLE HAVE HAD A
HEAVY DRINKING EPISODE IN THE
LAST 30 DAYS.
ALCOHOL IS WAY MORE ACCESSIBLE
IN ITALY THAN IT IS IN CANADA.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Nam sits with guests in the studio.
She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a green blazer over a black shirt.

A caption reads "Leaving politics and the Liberal Party behind. Not my cup of tea."

Nam says WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN
GOING ON WITH THE SNC LAVALIN
SCANDAL, YOU SENT OUT A TWEET A
WHILE AGO DIRECTED AT JUSTIN
TRUDEAU, AND IT GOT A LOT OF
ATTENTION. AT THE BEGINNING
I'M GOING TO QUOTE THE PRIME
MINISTER, BUT THIS IS WHAT
YOU WROTE IN THE TWEET...

A tweet by Celina Caesar-Chavannes appears on screen. It reads "'I believe real leadership is about listening, learning and compassion... central to my leadership is fostering an environment where my Ministers, caucus and staff feel comfortable coming to me when they have concerns.' I did come to you recently. Twice. Remember your reactions?"

Nam says I'M INFERRING YOU WERE
REFERRING TO TWO EXCHANGES YOU
HAD WITH THE PRIME MINISTER.

Celina says ABSOLUTELY.

Nam says WHERE YOU WERE TELLING
HIM YOU WEREN'T GOING TO RUN IN
THE NEXT ELECTION, AND YOU SAID
IN BOTH INSTANCES THAT HE GOT
HOSTILE.
HOW WAS HE HOSTILE?

The caption changes to "Celina Caesar-Chavannes. Independent MP, Whitby."
Then, it changes again to "An altercation with the Prime Minister."

Celina is in her early forties, with black hair in thin braids in a bun. She's wearing a dark blue blouse.

She says SO I WANT TO ADD TO THAT
QUOTE.
SO HIS QUOTE TALKED ABOUT HIS
LEADERSHIP AND HIS OPEN
ENVIRONMENT.
AND THEN THE NEXT SENTENCE SAID:
MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD DID NOT COME
TO ME.
THAT PERCEPTION THAT HE GAVE TO
CANADIANS WAS NOT MY REALITY.
MY REALITY WAS WHEN I PHONED
HIM, WHEN I SPOKE TO HIM ON THE
PHONE, THERE WAS YELLING.
AND I RECIPROCATED THAT.
I'M GOING TO OWN THAT.
YOU START YELLING AT ME, I'M
GOING TO PUSH BACK.
THE AREA WHERE I THINK... AND
THAT WAS THE YELLING PART.
THEN WE HAD ANOTHER MEETING, A
BROADER MEETING, AND WITHOUT
DISCLOSING CAUCUS CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIALITY, WE WERE TALKING
ABOUT BUILDING OUR TEAM.
THROUGHOUT THAT MEETING I FELT
TERRIBLE ABOUT THE EXCHANGE WE
HAD.
I WANTED TO RECONCILE AND SAID,
LOOK, THE MEETING WE HAD WASN'T
THE GREATEST.
LET'S BURY THE HATCHET.
THAT WAS MET WITH EVEN MORE
HOSTILITY.
IT WAS THE GLARE.
IT WAS THE SORT OF STOMPING OFF.
AND THEN I REALIZED THAT WHEN HE
WAS TALKING ABOUT TRUST AND TEAM
AND THE GREATER GOOD, HE WAS NOT
REFERRING TO ME.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Nam says I NEED TO PUSH BACK ON
THAT BECAUSE YOU WERE ONCE HIS
PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY.

Celina says ABSOLUTELY.

Nam says HE IS THE PRIME
MINISTER.
ISN'T HE ALLOWED TO BE ANGRY
WHEN HE HEARS THAT A MEMBER OF
HIS TEAM IS LEAVING?

Celina says OF COURSE.
BUT ASK ANY OTHER MEMBER OF HIS
TEAM WHO TOLD HIM THAT HE WAS
LEAVING, WHICH I DID, AND FEEL
FREE TO DO THAT, ASK THEM WHAT
THEIR REACTION WAS.
SOME OF THEM SAID THE EASIEST
PART OF MY DECISION WAS GOING TO
TALK TO THE PRIME MINISTER.
THE PRIME MINISTER COMPLETELY
UNDERSTOOD THAT I WAS LEAVING.
IT WAS A GREAT DECISION AND A
GREAT DISCUSSION...

Nam says MAYBE ANOTHER WAY OF
LOOKING AT IT IS IF HE DIDN'T
SHOW ANY EMOTION AND HE WAS
LIKE, OKAY... BUT WOULD THAT NOT
BE AS BAD IF HE WAS TO SAY,
OKAY, SEE YOU LATER.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Celina says THEN WHAT WAS HE APOLOGIZING FOR?
WHY DID HE DO THAT IN A WAY THAT
DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO CALL ME
OUT OF THE CHAMBER BUT STOOD
BEHIND ME OR STOOD BEHIND ME IN
MY CHAIR AND SAID, OH, I'M SORRY
FOR HOW I TREATED YOU.
DO YOU APOLOGIZE TO SOMEBODY BY
STOOPING BEHIND THEM OR DO YOU
LOOK THEM IN THE EYE?

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with a guest.
A caption reads "When a child advocate's door closes. Services no longer required."

Steve says WE TOLD LISA
MACLEOD'S OFFICE YOU'D BE COMING
ON THE PROGRAM TONIGHT AND ASKED
IF SHE HAD ANY COMMENT ABOUT IT,
AND WE GOT THIS BACK VIA EMAIL...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Change of direction." The quote reads "When I was first elected to the Ontario legislature in 2003, I was in favour of an independent office to investigate and advocate on behalf of Ontario's children. However, after taking office and reviewing the past 10 years of subpar work product from the Ontario Child Advocate's office that did little to inform government policy, it became clear to me that advocacy for Ontario's children should be the responsibility of government decision-makers. We look forward to improving outcomes for Ontario's children and have the utmost confidence in Ontario's Ombudsman to investigate any wrongdoing involving kids in care."
Quoted from Lisa MacLeod, via email. May 10, 2019.

Steve says THE OMBUDSMAN OF
COURSE NOW BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR
THE WORK YOU USED TO DO. WHAT
DO YOU MAKE OF THAT RESPONSE?

The caption changes to "Irwin Elman. Former Ontario Child and Youth Advocate."

Irwin in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a black suit and a lilac shirt.

He says AT SOME LEVEL IT MAKES YOU
WANT TO SAY: "WHATEVER."
IT'S OBVIOUS, I JUST MENTIONED I
RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE
MINISTER THE DAY BEFORE THAT
ANNOUNCEMENT WAS MADE TALKING
ABOUT THE GREAT RESPECT SHE HAD
FOR OUR OFFICE AND WITH A LITTLE
PERSONAL NOTE.
IT'S IN THE BULK OF THE LETTER
TOO.
SO, WHATEVER.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT.
IT'S ABOUT CHILDREN.
IT'S ABOUT WHAT THEY NEED.
IT'S ABOUT SAYING TO THE
CHILDREN OF THIS PROVINCE, WE
WILL PROTECT YOU.
IT'S ABOUT SAYING TO CHILDREN IN
THIS PROVINCE, YOU WILL HAVE
WHATEVER YOU NEED TO REACH YOUR
FULL POTENTIAL, EVERY CHILD.
IT'S ABOUT SAYING TO FAMILIES,
WHATEVER KIND OF FAMILY WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT, HOWEVER
CONSTITUTED, WE SAY TO FAMILIES,
THANK YOU.
YOU WILL HAVE WHAT YOU NEED TO
DO RIGHT BY YOUR CHILDREN.
THAT'S WHAT THIS DISCUSSION
SHOULD BE ABOUT.
IF SHE HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THE
WORK OF OUR OFFICE, SHE HIRED ME
TEN YEARS AGO.
SHE WAS ON THE HIRING COMMITTEE.
SHE VOTED FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT
OF MY OFFICE.
SHE REAPPOINTED ME, VOTED TO
REAPPOINT ME FIVE YEARS AFTER,
FOR MY SECOND TERM, AND SHE HAD
NOTHING BUT PRAISE WHEN I DID
MEET HER WHEN SHE WAS IN
GOVERNMENT.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says SO WHEN SHE RELEASES
A STATEMENT SAYING YOU'VE BEEN
DOING SUB-PAR WORK FOR TEN
YEARS, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Irwin says I'D SAY, WHERE WAS SHE?

Steve says DO YOU THINK THIS IS
HER TALKING OR MAYBE THIS IS
SOMETHING FROM THE PREMIER'S OFFICE?

Irwin says YOU KNOW, THIS WHOLE
SITUATION HAS BEEN HARD TO
UNDERSTAND FOR YOUNG PEOPLE,
CHILDREN, PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM,
THE PUBLIC, I THINK, SO I'VE
STOPPED TRYING TO THINK IT
THROUGH AND FIGURE IT OUT.
I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS
ABOUT SOME OF THE DECISIONS THIS
GOVERNMENT IS MAKING.
THERE'S A LOT OF... THERE'S A
SAYING, FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION.
IT MEANS YOU THINK ABOUT THE
FUNCTION... WHAT DO YOU WANT TO
ACHIEVE?
AND THEN YOU CREATE A WAY OF
DOING IT.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Irwin continues THERE'S A LOT OF FORM THIS
GOVERNMENT IS DOING, BUILDING
THINGS, BUT NOT A LOT OF TALK
ABOUT FUNCTION.
SO I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, IN SOME WAYS I THINK THE
HOPE IS... AND WE'LL GET TO THAT
MAYBE IN THIS INTERVIEW... BUT
THE HOPE IS WE WILL MOVE PAST
AND AROUND THESE KINDS OF WORDS
AND WORK TOGETHER, SECTOR AFTER
SECTOR, SERVICE AFTER SERVICE,
IN PARTNERSHIP WITH CHILDREN, TO
BUILD A BETTER PROVINCE.

The clips end and Steve stands in the studio alone.

He says THAT IS THE AGENDA'S
WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS FRIDAY,
MAY 17th, 2019. ALL OF THOSE
CONVERSATIONS ARE AVAILABLE
ON OUR WEBSITE tvo.org, ON OUR
YouTube CHANNEL AT:
youtube.com/theagenda AND ON OUR
TWITTER FEED, THAT'S:
twitter.com/TheAgenda.

Watch: The Agenda's Week in Review