Transcript: Coming Up With a Skills Strategy That Works | Mar 27, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a dark blue suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Developing a skills strategy that works. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says HIGH-PAYING JOBS GOING
UNFILLED AT THE VERY SAME TIME
THAT HIGHLY-SKILLED WORKERS FACE
UNEMPLOYMENT, AS GM WORKERS IN
OSHAWA CURRENTLY DO.
LAST WEEK'S FEDERAL BUDGET TOOK
NOTE OF SUCH LABOUR MARKET
MISMATCHES, WITH PROGRAMS AIMED
AT RE-SKILLING WORKERS.
HOW FAR WILL THOSE TAKE US AND
WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE ADDED?
LET'S FIND OUT FROM STEVEN
MURPHY.
HE IS PRESIDENT AND VICE
CHANCELLOR OF ONTARIO TECH
UNIVERSITY, NEWLY RE-BRANDED
JUST TODAY, FORMERLY UOIT...

Steven Murphy is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray pinstripe suit, white shirt, and spotted orange tie.

Steve continues MIKE MCDERMENT, FOUNDER AND CEO
OF THE CLOUD ACCOUNTING SOFTWARE
COMPANY FRESHBOOKS...

Mike is in his late forties, balding, with a full beard. He's wearing a gray shirt.

Steve continues GLADYS OKINE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OF FIRST WORK: ONTARIO'S YOUTH
EMPLOYMENT NETWORK; AND A MEMBER
OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
FUTURE SKILLS COUNCIL...

Gladys is in her late thirties, with long braided black hair. She's wearing a striped blue shirt and silver hoop earrings.

Steve continues AND SUNIL JOHAL, POLICY DIRECTOR
AT THE MOWAT CENTRE WHICH IS NOW
ASSOCIATED WITH THE MUNK SCHOOL
OF GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND PUBLIC
POLICY AT THE U OF T.

Sunil is in his late forties, bald, with a stubble. He's wearing rounded glasses, a gray suit and a blue shirt.

Steve continues WE'RE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME
EVERYBODY HERE TODAY.
A VERY PROPITIOUS DAY FOR YOU
AND YOUR INSTITUTION.
I HAVE A LITTLE SWAG HERE.
SHOULD WE HOLD THIS UP HERE?

Steve holds up a stainless-steel bottle with a logo in orange and two shades of blue that reads "Ontario Tech University."

He says THIS IS I GUESS FORMERLY
THE UNIVERSITY OF ONTARIO
INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY WHICH
WILL NOW BE KNOWN AS ONTARIO
TECH UNIVERSITY.
NOT GEORGIA TECH.

Steven Murphy says NO, RETAINING OUR FULL NAME, BUT THAT WILL BE OUR SHORT FORM,
ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says NOT TEXAS TECH.

Steven Murphy says ONTARIO TECH IS THE PLACE TO
BE. YOU GOT IT, STEVE.

Steve says OKAY, THANKS FOR THE SWAG.

Steven Murphy says NO WORRIES.

Steve says LET'S START WITH WHAT
I SUSPECT IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST
CHALLENGES YOU ARE DEALING WITH
RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS THE ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT A FEW WEEKS BACK
ANNOUNCED THAT STUDENTS WILL BE
GETTING A 10 percent BREAK ON THEIR
TUITION STARTING NEXT YEAR, LESS
REVENUE FOR YOU AND LESS
EXPENDITURE FOR THEM.
HOW ARE YOU DEALING WITH THAT?

The caption changes to "Steven Murphy. Ontario Tech University."
Then, it changes again to "Provincial perspective."

Steven Murphy says IT'S A SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE.
I THINK IN GENERAL AS
UNIVERSITIES WE REALIZE THAT THE
PROVINCE IS IN A FISCALLY TOUGH
SITUATION, SO WE'RE ALL ROLLING
UP OUR LEAVES AND DOING OUR BEST
TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT OUR
OPERATIONS TO SEE WHERE WE CAN
BE MORE EFFICIENT, SO WE
UNDERSTAND THAT.
FOR US IT'S A REALLY OPPORTUNITY
TO BE STRATEGIC.
AS A YOUNG UNIVERSITY, AS ONE
THAT'S RE-BRANDING, IT'S A REAL
OPPORTUNITY TO ASK OURSELVES
WHAT ARE WE DOING, HOW CAN WE
BEST SERVE OUR STUDENTS IN A WAY
THAT IS DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE AND
THAT WILL HELP US TO LEAPFROG
OVER OTHER PEOPLE.
SO YOU KNOW, THE OTHER ADAGE
THAT YOU NEVER MISS OUT ON USING
A GOOD CRISIS, WE'RE CERTAINLY
MAKING SURE THAT FOR US OUR
PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON THE
STRATEGIC DIRECTION BECAUSE WE
KNOW IN A YEAR OR TWO, GIVEN
CYCLES OF GOVERNMENT, THAT
THINGS WILL CHANGE AND SO...

Steve says OKAY, BUT THE KEY WORD
THERE IS CRISIS.
THE KEY WORD YOU USED IS CRISIS.
IS A 10 percent CUT FOR STUDENT
TUITION, WHICH DOESN'T REPRESENT
A 10 percent CUT TO YOUR BUM LINE, LESS
THAN THAT, BUT DOES THAT
REPRESENT A POTENTIAL CRISIS FOR
ONTARIO TECH?

Steven Murphy says I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S A CRISIS.
I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS A
SIGNIFICANT HIT FOR US.
IT'S AN 8 AND 13 MILLION dollar HIT,
YEAR ONE AND YEAR TWO OUT, WHICH
IS A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF OUR
BUDGET.
SO THERE ARE DEFINITELY WAYS
THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT DOING
BUSINESS DIFFERENTLY.
WHAT WE DIDN'T WANT TO EVER
TOUCH WAS THE CORE OF THE
STUDENT EXPERIENCE, WHICH WE
THINK IS A PHENOMENAL EXPERIENCE
AT OUR UNIVERSITY, AND AT MOST
ONTARIO UNIVERSITIES.
SO IT'S REALLY ABOUT HOW CAN WE
DO THINGS SMARTER AND HOW DO WE
USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
SPRINGBOARD INTO AREAS LIKE
SKILLS AND AREAS LIKE STACKABLE
CREDENTIALS AND AREAS WE NEED TO
BE MOVING FORWARD THAT ARE
ACTUALLY MORE COST EFFICIENT
ONCE YOU HAVE THAT INITIAL CASH
OUTLAY.

Steve says THE MINISTER SAYS SHE'S CHALLENGING YOU ALL TO BE
MORE INNOVATIVE, AND YOU WILL,
I'M SURE.
YOU'RE HERE BECAUSE YOU'RE
INNOVATIVE.
TELL US ABOUT FRESHBOOKS.
WHAT IS THAT?

The caption changes to "Mike McDerment. Freshbooks."

Mike says FOUNDED HERE IN TORONTO, CANADA.
WHEN I SAVED OVER AN INVOICE...
OVER A DECADE AGO.
SINCE THEN IT'S A SOFTWARE
COMPANY.
WHAT WE DO IS WE HELP SMALL
BUSINESS OWNERS MANAGE THEIR
ACCOUNTING.
SO IF YOU HAVE NO EMPLOYEES UP
TO ABOUT 20 EMPLOYEES, THAT'S
WHO WE'RE BUILT FOR.
SINCE WE STARTED HERE NOT TOO
FAR FROM THESE STUDIOS, TO BE
HONEST, OVER 20 MILLION PEOPLE
HAVE USED OUR SOFTWARE.
WE HAVE PAYING CUSTOMERS IN OVER
120 COUNTRIES.
WE HAVE HIRED SOME PEOPLE FROM
STEVEN'S SCHOOL, SO WE'VE BEEN
GROWING, AND WE'RE PART OF ONE
OF THE FIRST SORT OF COMPANIES
THAT HAVE BECOME PART OF A
GROWING PART OF THE TECHNOLOGY
SYSTEM HERE IN TORONTO, AND YOU
KNOW, WE'RE PROUD PART OF THAT
COMMUNITY WHICH IS, YOU KNOW,
PUTTING TORONTO ON THE MAP IN
TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, A
WORLD-CLASS CITY TO BUILD
TECHNOLOGY.

Steve says I WANT TO KNOW IF THE
STUDENTS THAT COME FROM OUR
POST-SECONDARY INSTITUTIONS,
INCLUDING STEVEN'S, THAT COME TO
YOU HAVE THE SKILLS THAT ARE
NEEDED FOR YOU.

Mike says SOME DO.
WATERLOO.
AND SOME DON'T.

Steve says MOST DON'T?

Mike says YEAH.

Steve says WHAT'S GOING ON?

Mike says WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT I WOULD
SAY IS THERE'S KIND OF A COUPLE
FACTIONS IN THE POST-SECONDARY
APPROACHES TO THIS STUFF.
SO WHAT WATERLOO DOES REALLY
WELL IS IT DOES A COUPLE THINGS.
FIRST, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL,
TRIES TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW,
WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED TO
CRAFT AND BUILD... WE'RE LARGELY
HIRING ENGINEERS AND THAT KIND
OF THING.
SO THERE'S A STRONG CONNECTION
TO INDUSTRY.
LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.
THAT INFLUENCES THE CURRICULUM
AND PEOPLE ARE LEARNING ABOUT
HOW TO BUILD, YOU KNOW, IN OUR
CASE THINGS LIKE PRODUCTION
SYSTEMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AS
OPPOSED TO THE THEORY OF
COMPUTER SCIENCE AND MATH WHICH
IS MY ALMA MATER QUEENS WOULD BE
SORT OF STEERING PEOPLE TOWARDS.
SO YOU MARRY THAT SORT OF
CURRICULUM AND FOCUS ON
PRACTICAL USE WITH WHAT THEY DO
IS A LOT OF CO-OP, AND SO YOUR
SORT OF TREND TOWARDS A MODERN
FORM OF APPRENTICESHIP, AND THE
STUDENTS ARE COMING OUT OF THE
SCHOOLS AND THEY CALL IT
STANFORD NORTH FOR A REASON.
THOSE ARE TWO OF THE BEST
ENGINEERING AND PRODUCT
DEVELOPMENT SCHOOLS IN THE
WORLD, AND IT'S THE REASON WHY
GOOGLE AND MICROSOFT AND
FRESHBOOKS SPEND TIME RECRUITING
THOSE STUDENTS TO BE PART OF
CO-OP PROGRAMS AND ULTIMATELY
WHEN THEY GRADUATE JOIN OUR
ORGANIZATION.
THEY ARE WAY AHEAD OF MOST
SCHOOLS, IN MY EXPERIENCE, AND I
HOPE THEY KEEP DOING WHAT THEY
ARE DOING AND OTHER PEOPLE START
PAYING ATTENTION AND REALLY
RAPIDLY CHANGING DOING HOW THEY
DO WHAT THEY DO.

Steve says YOU ARE ON THE MARS
TECH TALENT ADVISORY COUNCIL.
WHAT'S THEIR MISSION?

The caption changes to "Gladys Okine. First Work."

Gladys says THEIR MISSION IS TO ADDRESS
THIS PROBLEM THAT HE JUST SHARED
WITH US, THE MISMATCH BETWEEN
THE NEED OF EMPLOYERS, GROWING
TECH VENTURE, THE INVESTMENT
THAT'S BEING MADE IN THIS AREA
AND HOW QUICKLY TORONTO IS
GROWING IN THIS INDUSTRY.
BUT THE CHALLENGE THAT NEW
VENTURES AND START-UPS ARE
EXPERIENCING IN FINDING NEW
TALENT.
SO THE TECH TALENT ADVISORY HAS
REALLY BROUGHT TOGETHER
COMMUNITY EMPLOYMENT, ACADEMICS,
INDUSTRY LEADERS TO TALK ABOUT
HOW CAN WE ADDRESS OUR PINPOINTS
TOGETHER.
WHAT IS IT THAT WE HAVE
AVAILABLE?
WHAT IS IT THAT WE DON'T HAVE
AVAILABLE?
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S
COME OUT LOUD AND CLEAR IN THAT
DISCUSSION IS THAT THE ACADEMICS
HAVE A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME
QUICKLY RESPONDING TO THE
GROWING AND CHANGING NEEDS OF
INDUSTRY.
AND THEY'VE BEEN VERY UP FRONT
AND VERY DIRECT ABOUT THAT, SO
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT STACKABLE
CREDENTIALS AND OTHER FORMS OF
LEARNING THAT CAN HELP ADDRESS
THOSE NEEDS IN A MUCH QUICKER
FORMAT, THOSE ARE THE THINGS
THAT WE'RE STARTING TO EXPLORE.

Steve says I ACTUALLY HAD NOT
HEARD THAT EXPRESSION BEFORE,
STACKABLE CREDENTIALS.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Gladys says SO I'LL DEFER FOR YOU FOR A
MORE ACADEMIC EXPLANATION, BUT
IN MY WORLD, THE WAY I
UNDERSTAND IT WORKING WITH JOB
SEEKERS AND EMPLOYERS, IT IS A
MORE FLEXIBLE WAY OF LEARNING.
OVER TIME.
YOU CAN CONTINUE TO STUDY.
YOU CAN TAKE SMALLER INCREMENTS
OF COURSES THAT ADD TO A
LONGER-TERM CREDENTIAL OVER
TIME, BUT IT'S MORE FLEXIBLE IN
TERMS OF HOW YOU CAN APPROACH IT.

Steve says STEVEN?

Gladys says IS THAT ACCURATE?

Steven Murphy says YEAH, NO, EXACTLY THAT.
IF YOU CAN THINK OF IT AS YOU
MIGHT WANT TO COME BACK TO TAKE
A COURSE, BUT THAT COURSE COULD
ALSO BE, YOU KNOW, INCLUDED IN A
FOUR-COURSE PACKAGE FOR A
DIPLOMA CERTIFICATE, AND SO YOU
GET THAT CERTIFICATE AND THEN
YOU SAY, WELL, ACTUALLY, IF YOU
CONTINUED, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO
GET A DEGREE WITH THAT.
AND SO IT'S THE STACKING OF THE
CREDENTIALS FOR AS FAR AS YOU
WANT TO GO, WHICH IS WHAT WE ALL
HAVE TO DO TO BE THINKING ABOUT
HOW TO BRING BACK OUR LEARNERS
PAST THE AGE OF 25.

Steve says GOTCHA.
WE WANT TO... SHELDON, SHOULD WE
PUT THIS CHART UP RIGHT NOW?
THIS IS THE PERCENTAGE OF
OVERQUALIFIED WORKERS IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Overqualified workers."

It displays a line chart showing the percentage of overqualified workers in Ontario and in Canada as a whole. From 2001 to 2018 the percentage has increased in Canada from under 26 percent to over 32 percent, and in Ontario from over 26 percent to over 34 percent.

Steve says WE TALK IN THIS PROVINCE AND
COUNTRY NOW ABOUT PEOPLE WITHOUT
JOBS AND JOBS WITHOUT PEOPLE.
FOR THE SAKE OF THIS CHART,
OVERQUALIFIED MEANS AN EMPLOYER
THINKING SOMEONE HAS AN
EDUCATION LEVEL THAT IS HIGHER
THAN WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THE JOB,
AND FOR THOSE LISTENING ON
PODCAST, WE'RE LOOKING AT A
CHART RIGHT NOW OF ONTARIO GOING
FROM HAVING 26 percent OF ITS WORKFORCE
BEING OVERQUALIFIED IN THE YEAR
2001, WHICH IS ABOUT THE
NATIONAL AVERAGE, BUT IT HAS
BEEN CLIMBING STEADILY, ALMOST
10 POINTS, TO 35 percent LAST YEAR.
WHICH IS 2 percent HIGHER THAN THE
NATIONAL AVERAGE.
THIS IS ALL LABOUR MARKET
INFORMATION COUNCIL INFORMATION.
SUNIL, IN YOUR VIEW, AS YOU LOOK
AT THAT CHART, WHAT'S
SIGNIFICANT ABOUT IT?

The caption changes to "Sunil Johal. Mowat Centre."

Sunil says I THINK THERE'S A FEW THINGS
THAT ARE DRIVING THIS.
I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN A HOLLOWING
OUT OF THE MIDDLE SKILL JOBS
OVER THE PAST 15 OR 20 YEARS IN
PLACES LIKE ONTARIO AND CANADA,
AND WE'VE ALSO AT THE SAME TIME
SEEN A PRESSURE ON STUDENTS TO
GO TO UNIVERSITY, GET THAT
DEGREE.
THAT'S YOUR FOOTHOLD INTO THE
LABOUR MARKET, AND JOBS THAT
WOULDN'T HAVE REQUIRED EVEN A
UNIVERSITY DEGREE 30 YEARS AGO,
NOW THAT'S A BARE MINIMUM
REQUIREMENT EVEN TO GET SCREENED
INTO THE POSITION.
SO I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE SEEING
CHANGES IN THE NATURE OF JOBS
GENERALLY IN ADVANCED ECONOMIES.
LOTS OF THOSE MIDDLE JOBS ARE
DISAPPEARING.
WE'RE SEEING KIND OF A SMALLER
PERCENTAGE OF THOSE HIGH-SKILLED
JOBS, A LOT OF ROUTINE JOBS
STILL EXIST IN THE SERVICE
SECTOR.
AND THE QUESTION BECOMES: HOW DO
WE PREPARE FOR THIS, ESPECIALLY
GIVEN TECHNOLOGICAL DISRUPTIONS
LIKE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND
AUTOMATION COMING DOWN THE
PIPELINE.
WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE MORE OF
THESE CHANGES HAPPENING MORE
QUICKLY.
SO THE QUESTION BECOMES HOW DO
WE PREPARE OUR WORKFORCE AND OUR
CITIZENS FOR THESE MORE
FREQUENT, MORE DISLOCATIVE TYPES
OF CHANGES?

Steve says CAN I PUT ONE IDEA TO
GLADYS HERE?
ONE OF THE IDEAS TO DEAL WITH
THIS MISMATCH IS PERHAPS NUDGING
STUDENTS AT A YOUNGER AGE, MAYBE
EVEN HIGH SCHOOL, TOWARDS
CAREERS.
GOOD IDEA?
BAD IDEA?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Gladys says HIGH SCHOOL IS ACTUALLY TOO LATE.

Steve says TOO LATE?

The caption changes to "Gladys Okine, @OgladysO."

Gladys says SO NOT A BAD IDEA.
IT ACTUALLY HAS BEEN SUGGESTED
AND RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT IT
NEEDS TO START EARLIER.
SO IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, AS EARLY AS
MIDDLE SCHOOL.
SOME ARE SAYING EVEN AS EARLY AS
THE THIRD GRADE.
SO YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGING YOUNG
PEOPLE TO EXPLORE WHAT THEIR
OPTIONS ARE AS EARLY AS
POSSIBLE, BUT ALSO CONNECTING
THAT TO OPPORTUNITIES TO
EXPERIENCE SOME OF THOSE OPTIONS
ARE TWO THINGS THAT WE'RE
MISSING IN OUR ECOSYSTEM RIGHT
NOW WHEN IT COMES TO SKILLS
DEVELOPMENT AND WORKFORCE
DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN THERE'S THE OTHER ISSUE
OF WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT
STUDENTS, BUT WE HAVE AN
INCREDIBLE NUMBER OF YOUNG
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN SCHOOL,
BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE
THEM TO RETURN AT SOME POINT
SHOULD IT MAKE SENSE FOR THEM,
WHETHER IT'S COLLEGE,
UNIVERSITY, SOME SORT OF
TECHNICAL TRAINING, AND THERE
ARE SOME INVESTMENTS THAT ARE
BEING MADE TO SUPPORT THOSE
INDIVIDUALS.
BUT IT'S A MAJOR ISSUE.
WE ARE MISSING OPPORTUNITIES TO
ENCOURAGE EARLY EXPLORATION, BUT
ALSO THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEP
INTO DIFFERENT TYPES OF
WORKPLACES TO EXPERIENCE SOME OF
THESE NEW AND EMERGING
INDUSTRIES.

Steve says STEVEN, CAN I GET YOU
TO COMMENT ON THAT, THE NOTION
THAT MAYBE IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
IT'S TIME TO START CAREERS WITH KIDS?

The caption changes to "Steven Murphy, @DrStephenMurphy."

Steven Murphy says I THINK THAT'S A REALITY.
WHEN WE WERE IN SCHOOL TALKING
TO A MIDDLE SCHOOL CHILD ABOUT A
CAREER IS DAUNTING.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM
THINKING ABOUT IS WHAT THEY ARE
PASSIONATE ABOUT EARLY ON IN
LIFE.
THE REALITY IS THAT MY STUDENTS
WHO ARE GRADUATING TODAY WILL
HAVE SEVEN TO 12 TO 15 GIGS, AS
WE CALL THEM, RIGHT?
THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT CAREER
LANDSCAPE FROM WHAT WE MIGHT
HAVE GRADUATED INTO.
SO THE NOTION THAT YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO BE ABLE TO PIVOT IS NOT
A REAL ONE.
YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
PIVOT AND CHANGE AND MOVE, AND
YOU'RE GOING TO BE EXPECTED TO.
SO HAVING SOME INITIAL PASSION I
THINK IS THE REAL KEY, AND THEN
TAKING THAT PASSION AND SAYING
WHERE AM I EVOLVING TO IN MY
CAREER, AND HOW DO I NEED TO
UPSKILL MYSELF AS A MATTER OF
COURSE?
AND I THINK AS A COUNTRY, THAT'S
A BIG THING WE HAVE TO GRAPPLE
WITH, THAT YOU DON'T JUST FINISH
YOUR DEGREE AND THEN THINK THAT
YOU'RE EDUCATED FOR THE REST OF
YOUR CAREER.
WE'VE GOT TO GET OVER THIS
NOTION THAT I KNOW CANADIANS
DON'T LIKE LIFELONG LEARNING,
AND THE HONOURABLE PATTY HAJDU
WAS AT OUR CAMPUS JUST YESTERDAY
TALKING ABOUT SKILLS TRAINING.
THEIR DATA SHOWS THE SAME THING,
THAT THE ADULTS DON'T LIKE THE
TERM LIFELONG LEARNING, SO
WHATEVER WE HAVE TO DO, WE HAVE
TO MAKE IT LESS SCARY FOR ADULTS
TO COME BACK, AND
UNIVERSITIES... WE'RE VERY
GUILTY OF BRINGING PEOPLE BACK
TO A ZONE THAT MIGHT NOT FEEL AS
COMFORTABLE AS IT NEEDS TO.
SO BRINGING PEOPLE BACK WITH
THEIR COLLEAGUES SO THEY'RE IN A
CLASS WITH OTHERS AND NOT
FEELING LIKE AM I GOING TO FLUNK
OUT OF MY TEST, ARE THEY GOING
TO FIGURE OUT THAT I'M NOT QUITE
SMART ENOUGH?
WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE FEARS
IN ORDER TO HAVE A SYSTEMIC
APPROACH TO SKILLS TRAINING
THAT'S GOING TO TAKE US WELL
INTO THIS CENTURY IN TERMS OF
THE NEEDS WE SEE IN SO MANY OF
OUR INDUSTRIES.

Steve says APROPOS OF THAT, THE
FEDERAL BUDGET CAME OUT NOT TOO
LONG AGO.
MAYBE YOU CAN START WITH SOME
REACTION TO THAT.
LOTS OF SKILLS TRAINING MEASURES
IN THE FEDERAL BUDGET.
CANADA TRAINING TAX... EXCUSE ME.
CANADA TRAINING BENEFIT TAX
CREDIT GIVING CANADIANS 250 dollars A
YEAR FOR TRAINING UP TO 5,000 dollars.
EI TRAINING SUPPORT BENEFIT,
WHICH WOULD GIVE EMPLOYEES UP TO
FOUR WEEKS OFF FOR TRAINING.
THESE ARE ALL NEW MEASURES.
HOW USEFUL DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO BE?

The caption changes to "Sunil Johal, @JohalSunil."

Sunil says I THINK THEY'RE A GOOD START.
I MEAN THE CHALLENGE WE'VE GOT
RIGHT NOW IN CANADA IS THAT FROM
A PUBLIC SECTOR PERSPECTIVE WE
DON'T FUND SKILLS TRAINING
NEARLY TO THE LEVEL THAT OTHER
ADVANCED ECONOMIES DO.
THE LEVEL OF COVERAGE IS PATCHY,
SO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO AREN'T
ELIGIBLE FOR EMPLOYMENT
INSURANCE, FOR EXAMPLE, AREN'T
ELIGIBLE FOR PUBLIC SKILLS
TRAINING.
THE QUALITY OF THE PROGRAMS THE
PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO IS ALSO
QUITE HIT AND MISS.
THOSE ARE CHALLENGES.
THEY ARE INTRODUCING PROGRAMS
LIKE THE ONES IN THE BUDGET LAST
WEEK.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD STEP.
WHAT THEY ESSENTIALLY DO IS
PROVIDE THAT AUTONOMY TO
INDIVIDUAL LEARNERS AND SAY,
OKAY, IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO
TAKE A COURSE, HERE'S SOME MONEY
THAT'S GOING TO HELP YOU DEFRAY
THE COST OF TAKING THAT COURSE,
AND YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE EI
SUPPORT DURING THE TIME THAT
YOU'RE OFF WORK TAKING THE
COURSE SO YOU'RE NOT AT RISK OF
LOSING YOUR JOB EITHER.
SO THIS IS MODELLED I THINK ON
WHAT SINGAPORE HAS BEEN DOING
OVER THE PAST THREE OR FOUR
YEARS.
THEY HAVE A SKILLS FUTURE
PROGRAM SIMILAR TO THIS.
IT'S JUST A START.
5,000 dollars OVER YOUR LIFE COURSE IS
NOT A LOT OF MONEY.
AN MBA AT U OF T COSTS SOME
90,000 dollars.
THAT'S GOING TO COVER A COUPLE
OF TEXTBOOKS BASICALLY.

The caption changes to "Mike McDerment, @MikeMcDerment."

Mike says TO GO BACK TO WHAT STEVEN'S
SAYING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS
SEEKING PASSION OUT IN PEOPLE,
YOU KNOW, AND THEN TO GO TO THE
DOLLARS, THE DOLLARS ARE GREAT.
I THINK ANYONE WHO TAKES AWAY
THE FACT THAT SOMEONE'S GOING TO
SOLVE THIS PROBLEM FOR YOU AS AN
INDIVIDUAL IS TAKING THE WRONG
MESSAGE.
IF THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT I
WILL BE PAID TO RELEARN AND WHAT
HAVE YOU, THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE A
VERY DANGEROUS FUTURE FOR US.
WHAT I BELIEVE IN IS SETTING THE
EXPECTATION THAT THE NEW WORLD
ORDER IS CONTINUOUS LEARNING.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE DONE AT
FRESHBOOKS, A VERY VALUES-DRIVEN
ORGANIZATION, WE HAVE A VALUE
AROUND PASSION.
THE WORD DOESN'T MATTER.
THE DEFINITION DOES, WHICH IS
WE'RE CONTINUOUSLY WORKING ON
OUR CRAFT.
IF WE WEREN'T DOING IT HERE,
WE'D BE DOING IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
THE REASON I WANT TO HIRE PEOPLE
AND THEY HAVE PASSION IS BECAUSE
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE ENERGY
TO KEEP LEARNING.
I CAN'T PAY YOU TO LEARN.
AND I HATE TO SAY THE GOVERNMENT
IS DOING THAT FOR A WHILE.

Steve says THE FEDS ARE DOING
THEIR THING ON SKILLS
RE-TRAINING.
THE PROVINCE IS DOING ITS THING.
THE POST-SECONDARY WORLD IS
DOING ITS THING.
SHOULD WE HAVE AN EXPECTATION
THAT THE CORPORATE-PRIVATE
SECTOR WORLD OUGHT TO BE IN ON
THIS TOO?

Mike says ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I MEAN, IN THE SENSE THAT, LIKE,
ARE WE IGNORANT OF THE LEVELS OF
INVESTMENT PEOPLE PUT IN TO
TRAINING AND RE-TRAINING THEIR
FOLKS AND CREATING AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY ARE
LEARNING NEW SKILLS AND CHANGES?
I THINK YOU'D BE STUNNED IF YOU
PULLED DOWN THE COVERS AND
REALIZED WE'RE HIRING PEOPLE OF
CAPABILITY.
THIS IS IMPORTANT TOO.
YOU WANT TO HAVE A LEARNING AND
A GROWTH MINDSET.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT PASSION FOR
SOMETHING SORT OF FOSTERS.
THE SKILLS THAT WE NEED... I
MEAN, I THINK THERE'S MAYBE AN
OVEREMPHASIS ON THE
TECHNICALITIES OF IT.
I'M LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN
COMMUNICATE AND COLLABORATE, WHO
CAN SOLVE PROBLEMS AND HAVE A
DESIRE TO LEARN BECAUSE THEY
HAVE SOME KIND OF PASSION ABOUT
THINGS.
I TAKE THAT AND I MOULD IT, AND
I INVEST.
I INVEST A GREAT DEAL.

The caption changes to "Federal help."

Steve says SO YOU'RE THERE, YOU THINK?

Mike says OH, IT WILL NEVER END, AND I
THINK IT IS FROM, BUT I THINK
IMPORTANT, AND FRANKLY WE'RE
BUILDING AN INDUSTRY, AND IF I
GET A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC
AROUND TORONTO AND THE
TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY HERE I'LL
EXPOSE MY PHILOSOPHY, WHICH IS
WE DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE COME BEFORE US WHO HAVE
BUILT AND TRAINED AND TAUGHT
THESE PEOPLE.
IN THE FIRST GENERATION OF THIS
INDUSTRY, THIS INDUSTRY IS GOING
TO BE HUGE FOR US.
IT CAN BE MASSIVE.
WE SHOULD BE INVESTING TO
SUPPORT IT, BUT THIS IS... WE'RE
TRYING TO BUILD THE FIRST
GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE
SOME KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE.
THAT'S A HUGE GAP THAT WE HAVE.
THE TRAINING AND THE
TECHNICALITY IS NOT ALL OF IT.
YOU ACTUALLY NEED THE
EXPERIENCE.
AND THAT IS THE INVESTMENT A
COMPANY LIKE MYSELF AND OTHERS,
YOU KNOW, ARE MAKING TO BUILD
THE WORKFORCE OF TOMORROW WHO
WILL THEN GO AND BUILD MORE
PEOPLE.
IT'S A BIT OF A CYCLE AND GENERATION.

The caption changes to "Sunil Johal. Munk School of Global Affairs."

Sunil says THAT'S GREAT, AND I COMMEND
MIKE AND OTHER FIRMS THAT ARE
DOING THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT THE
STORY AT THE AGGREGATE LEVEL IN
CANADA.
I MEAN, FIRMS ARE INVESTING WITH
30 percent LESS ON AVERAGE IN EMPLOYEES
THAN THEY DID IN THE EARLY '90S
IN CANADA.
WE KNOW FIRMS ARE INVESTING FAR
LESS THAN THEIR COMPETITOR FIRMS
IN THE U.S. ON THINGS LIKE
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT,
MACHINERY AND EQUIPMENT.
SO I MEAN, GOVERNMENTS IN CANADA
HAVE BEEN KEEPING CORPORATE TAX
RATES LOW, ON AVERAGE.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE LOTS
OF EXCEPTIONS, BUT ON AVERAGE
FIRMS ARE NOT PUTTING THAT MONEY
BACK INTO WORKERS.
THEY ARE NOT PUTTING THAT MONEY
BACK INTO THEIR OWN OPERATIONS.
SO THE QUESTION BECOMES: WHERE
IS THAT BARGAIN FAILING FOR US?
IT'S NOT SOLELY PUBLIC SECTOR
RESPONSIBILITY TO TRAIN WORKERS
FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
WE NEED THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN
MORE NUMBERS LIKE MIKE'S COMPANY
TO COME TO THE TABLE AND SAY
IT'S OUR BUSINESS ON THE LINE.
IF WE WANT TO THRIVE IN THE NEW
GLOBAL ECONOMY, WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO INVEST IN WORKERS, AND
THE COMPANIES THAT DO THAT, LIKE
MIKE'S, WILL THRIVE.
AND THE ONES THAT DON'T, WILL FAIL.

Steve says COULD WE DO ANOTHER
REAL-LIFE EXAMPLE HERE?
STEVEN, YOU'LL CORRECT ME IF I
GET THIS SORT OF TOO SIMPLIFIED
HERE, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING OF
YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GENERAL
MOTORS, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS THAT
THEY HAD NEEDS.
YOU WERE A POST-SECONDARY
INSTITUTION WHICH PUMPED OUT
GRADUATES THAT WOULD HELP THEM
MEET THEIR BUSINESS NEEDS.
NOW THEY'RE GOING, SO IN SOME
RESPECTS YOU DON'T HAVE A
PIPE... THERE'S NOTHING AT THE
END OF THAT PIPELINE THROUGH
WHICH YOUR PEOPLE CAN GO NOW.
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE YOUR
MISSION?
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THE PEOPLE
WHO WANTED TO DO THAT WORK?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Steven Murphy says WELL, I THINK THAT THE
MISSION STILL STAYS THE SAME.
FOR US IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT BEING
FUTURE FOCUSED ON WHATEVER
INDUSTRY IT IS.
SO THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY AND
THE OSHAWA CHAPTER IN SPECIFIC
IN THAT IS FAR FROM OVER.
SO THE GM CHAPTER MAY BE OVER,
BUT THE R and D IS NOT OVER, AND THE
R and D THAT'S HAPPENING IN MARKHAM
AND IS HAPPENING WITHIN OUR WIND
TUNNEL IS STAGGERING, AND SO
WE'RE ON THAT CUTTING EDGE.
IT'S ABOUT ALWAYS REDEFINING
THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.
BUT I JUST GET BACK TO THE POINT
THAT I THINK HAVING CORPORATE
PARTNERS AT THE TABLE IS
CRUCIAL, AND I DO THINK THAT
WHILE WE HAVE SOME GREAT
CORPORATE PARTNERS, LIKE GM,
LIKE THE OPGS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT
REALLY DO GET IT, LIKE MIKE'S
FIRM, THAT GET IT, I WOULD
UNDERSCORE THE POINT THAT THERE
ARE A LOT OF FMAS, SMES, TOOL
AND DIME MAKERS, THE HEART OF
OUR ECONOMY, WHAT MAKES IT BEAT,
THAT HAVE NOT INVESTED
COMMENSURATE AMOUNTS OF MONEY
INTO SKILLS TRAINING, AND A LOT
OF IT GOES DOWN THE SUPPLY
CHAIN.
SO IF YOU TAKE AN OPG AND LOOK,
THEY PROBABLY SPEND A
DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT ON
THINGS LIKE SKILLED TRADES AND
OTHER THINGS THAT DON'T EVEN END
UP WORKING FOR THEM AS
EMPLOYERS, BUT THEY NEED THEM IN
THE SUPPLY CHAIN TO MAKE THE
POWER GRID WORK.
AND SO WHAT YOU SEE IS THIS
RELIANCE ON A FEW PLAYERS TO
ALWAYS BE STEPPING UP, AND SURE
IN THE INDUSTRIES LIKE MIKE IS
IN THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, AT THE
CUTTING EDGE, THEY DO TEND TO
OVERCOMMIT IN TERMS OF BEING...
OF MONEY TO THE TABLE.
BUT WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO SEE
IS WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
THIS IS... WE'RE ALL IN THIS
TOGETHER.
AND SO WE DO NEED EMPLOYERS OF
ALL STRIPES TO SAY THIS IS AN
AGGREGATE RESPONSIBILITY.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I CAN DO
ON MY OWN AS A UNIVERSITY.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO
DO IN PARTNERSHIP AND
COLLABORATION, AND IT CAN'T JUST
BE THE LARGE PARTNERS.
IT HAS TO BE THE SMES THAT ARE
COMING IN AS WELL.

Steve says GO AHEAD.
I HEAR SOMEBODY WANTING TO
FOLLOW UP HERE.

Mike says I JUST WONDER IF WE SEGMENT
DOWN TO WHICH INDUSTRIES WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT...

Steven Murphy says OH, ABSOLUTELY.

Mike says AND THE SKILLS NEEDS, I THINK
YOU'RE GOING TO FIND INDUSTRIES
LIKE THE ONE I PARTICIPATE IN
WHERE THERE ARE HUGE INVESTMENTS
GOING IN, AND THERE ARE OTHER
INDUSTRIES WHERE IT'S LIKE GEEZ
THE FUTURE IS CRUMBLING AROUND
US AND THAT UNFORTUNATELY MIGHT
BE THE TOOL AND DIME MAKERS, AND
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE HERE
ANYMORE.
IT'S A DIFFERENT INVESTMENT
PHILOSOPHY IN TRAINING PEOPLE.
IF YOU CAN GET TO A BETTER MODEL
AND HIRE THAT SKILL ON DEMAND...

Steve says DO YOU WANT THE
GOVERNMENTS TO BE PICKING
WINNERS AND LOSERS HERE?

Mike says NO, THAT IS KIND OF LIKE...
I'M ON DEFINITIVELY IT'S GREAT
THAT WE'RE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO
LEARN WITH DOLLARS, BUT I THINK
THE WORLD IS CHANGING AROUND US.
THERE ARE INDUSTRIES THAT ARE
GOING ONE WAY THAT WE'RE SET UP
WELL TO SUPPORT.
THERE ARE INDUSTRIES THAT ARE
GOING ANOTHER THAT THE FACT OF
THE WORLD TODAY, AND I THINK
YOU'RE JUST EXPERIENCING
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF TRAINING IN
DIFFERENT ONES.
AND TO GO AND ENCOURAGE AN
INDUSTRY WHERE TRAINING IS NOT
NECESSARILY THE THING THEY NEED
TO DO FOR THEIR SURVIVAL,
FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT
IS THE RIGHT-FOOTED APPROACH TO THIS.

Steve says LET ME ASK GLADYS.
YOU'RE ON ABOUT 25 DIFFERENT
THINGS HERE, GADDIS.
THE FUTURE SKILLS COUNCIL.
THAT'S ANOTHER INITIATIVE OF THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THIS POND
THAT WE'RE SWIMMING IN TONIGHT.

Gladys says IT IS.

Steve says WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

The caption changes to "Gladys Okine. Future Skills Council."

Gladys says SO THE FUTURE SKILLS COUNCIL
IS AN ADVISORY COUNCIL THAT'S
BEEN FORMED.
IT'S PAN-CANADIAN IN NATURE.
THERE ARE 15 MEMBERS ON THE
COUNCIL THAT ARE PROVIDING
ADVICE TO THE MINISTER ON WHAT
IT WILL TAKE TO MAKE CANADIANS
FUTURE READY, WHAT INVESTMENTS,
WHAT TECHNOLOGY IS REQUIRED,
WHAT ARE THE EMERGING TRENDS
THAT WE NEED TO BE PAYING
ATTENTION TO AS A COUNTRY.
AND PULLING TOGETHER ALL OF OUR
INTEL FROM THE VARIOUS GROUPS
THEN, BODIES THAT WE REPRESENT,
PERSPECTIVES FROM ACROSS THE
COUNTRY AND BRINGING THAT TO THE
TABLE.
SO PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE, SOME
OVERSIGHT, SOME ADVICE IN TERMS
OF WHAT WILL WE NEED TO DO TO
MAKE SURE THAT CANADIANS ARE
FUTURE READY AND SKILLED SO THAT
WE'RE ABLE TO BETTER COMPETE.

Steve says YOU'RE THE ONE PRIVATE
SECTOR GUY AT THIS TABLE.
WHEN YOU HEAR THAT, WHAT DOES...
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Mike says YEAH, IT SOUNDS NICE.
YOU KNOW, I LIKE THAT WE'RE
THINKING ABOUT IT, AND I DO
THINK THE WORLD HAS CHANGED.
WHAT I WOULD IMPART ON SOME OF
THE SPECIFICS IS IT'S A LOT OF
SOFT SKILLS TOO THAT ARE GOING
TO BE IMPORTANT TO THE FUTURE.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.
LIKE, LISTEN, I'M ON THE SIDE OF
DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN, RIGHT?
SO I'M GREAT THAT PEOPLE ARE
THINKING ABOUT THIS AND GLADYS
AND I WERE TALKING JUST BEFORE
WE GOT IN HERE.
IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE ARE MORE
OPEN THAN EVER ACROSS THESE
VARIOUS CONSTITUENTS AND
INDUSTRIES AND ACROSS THE
COUNTRY TO TRY TO SOLVE THIS
PROBLEM.
I THINK IT'S A VERY REAL PROBLEM
FOR CANADA, AND I THINK OUR
MINDSET AROUND IT IS, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE NOT ALL OF THE WAY THERE
YET.

Steve says SUNIL, YOU LOOK AROUND
THE WORLD.
ANYBODY ELSE DOING THIS BETTER
THAN US?

Sunil says LOTS OF COUNTRIES ARE DOING
IT BETTER THAN US BECAUSE THEY
INVEST MORE MONEY IN THEIR PROGRAMS.
A COUNTRY LIKE DENMARK INVESTS
PROBABLY ABOUT SIX TIMES
PROPORTIONALLY MORE THAN CANADA
IN ACTIVE LABOUR MARKET
PROGRAMS, AND THEY MAKE IT
ACTUALLY VERY EASY TO HIRE AND
FIRE PEOPLE IN DENMARK.
25 percent OF DANES IN THE PRIVATE
SECTOR SWITCH JOBS EVERY YEAR.

The caption changes to "Reforming the system."

Steve says EVERY YEAR?

Sunil says EVERY YEAR.
WHICH SOUNDS DAUNTING, BUT WHEN
YOU'RE LET GO FROM YOUR JOB,
YOUR INDUSTRY IS CHANGING, YOUR
EMPLOYER DOESN'T NEED YOU, GUESS
WHAT, YOU HAVE ACCESS TO VERY
HIGH LEVELS OF INCOME SUPPORT
AND EXCELLENT TRAINING PROGRAMS.
SO THAT'S I THINK THE MODEL WE
WANT TO MOVE TOWARDS, WHERE WE
DON'T WANT TO HOLD ON TO DYING
INDUSTRIES.
WE WANT TO LET THOSE INDUSTRIES
GO, MOVE ON TO THE FUTURE, BUT
HELP THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEFT
BEHIND.
AND I MEAN, THERE'S AN ECONOMIC
IMPERATIVE THERE TOO.
INVESTING $10,000, $15,000 IN
SOMEBODY IN THE SHORT TERM,
GUESS WHAT, IF THAT PERSON MAKES
THAT MONEY BACK OVER THE COURSE
OF THEIR LIFETIME, THEY ARE
PAYING HIGHER LEVELS OF TAX, NOT
DRAWING DOWN ON SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE.
THERE'S A SUPER-CLEAR SIGHTLINE
TO THE SAVINGS AND BENEFITS OF
GOVERNMENT OF INVESTING IN
SKILLS TRAINING.
THIS ISN'T A LONG-TERM THING
LIKE FULL DAY KINDERGARTEN IN 20
OR 30 YEARS WE SEE THE BENEFIT
OF IT.

Steve says MORE IMMEDIATE.

Sunil says IF YOU GET YOU INTO A BETTER
JOB TOMORROW, YOU'RE PAYING
HIGHER TAXES FOR ME TOMORROW AS WELL.

Steve says OKAY, WITH JUST A FEW
MINUTES TO GO HERE, I DO WANT TO
FOLLOW UP WITH STEVEN ON THE
EDUCATION FRONT ABOUT SOME OF
THE POST-SECONDARY SECTOR IS
GOING THROUGH ITS OWN
INNOVATIONS AND ITS OWN
DISRUPTIONS RIGHT NOW.
HOW DO YOU SEE THAT
HAPPENING WHERE YOU'RE AT RIGHT
NOW IN DURHAM REGION?

Steven Murphy says WELL, I THINK THAT IN DURHAM REGION IT'S PROBABLY MORE
POIGNANT BECAUSE WE HAVE GONE
THROUGH THE GM CRISIS.
SO FOR US IT'S CERTAINLY ABOUT A
LOT OF THE THINGS WE TALKED
ABOUT.
FIRSTLY IT HAS TO BE A VERY
STRONG PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE
UNIVERSITY AND OUR CORPORATE
PARTNERS.
THE NOTION OF WHAT A UNIVERSITY
IS AND WHAT WORK INTEGRATED
LEARNING IS, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS
CHANGED IMMENSELY.
SO I OFTEN HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE
THAT UNLIKE THE UNIVERSITIES WE
WENT TO, TODAY'S WORK INTEGRATED
LEARNING, MUCH OF IT HAPPENS ON
OUR CAMPUS.
SO WE HAVE AS MANY PEOPLE COMING
TO WORK IN OUR WIND TUNNEL,
COMING IN TO WORK IN OUR NUCLEAR
SIM LAB, COMING IN TO WORK IN
OUR VARIOUS HIGH-TECH LABS ON
CAMPUS AS WE DO EXTERNALLY.
SO IT'S SORT OF GETTING A
RE-WIRE AROUND WHAT IS A
UNIVERSITY AND WHAT CAN A
UNIVERSITY DO.
AND I THINK IT REALLY DOES GET
TO THE ISSUE OF THAT LONG-TERM
LEARNER.
AND I THINK THAT THE FEDS HAVE
PUT THEIR MINDS ON TWO KEY
ISSUES.
ONE IS TIME AND ONE IS MONEY
BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THOSE,
BUT THE THIRD THAT I REALLY
THINK THEY HAVE TO GRASP IS THE
FEAR FACTOR.
AND IF YOU'RE LOSING YOUR JOB
AND IF THINGS ARE BEING
DOWNSIZED YOU ARE VERY AFRAID,
AND I'M NOT SURE AS A COUNTRY WE
HAVE A GOOD ENOUGH STRATEGY TO
SAY: HOW DO WE DESTIGMATIZE
FEAR?
SO FOR ME IS IT ABOUT CREATING
CONTINUING EDUCATION
OPPORTUNITIES WHERE THAT
LEARNING ENVIRONMENT IS INDEED A
SAFE ENVIRONMENT, WHERE THEY
FEEL LIKE THEY CAN COME BACK.
THEY CAN HEAR A LECTURE FIRST
AND THINK, OKAY, THIS ISN'T
QUITE WHAT A THOUGHT A
UNIVERSITY WAS.
IT'S NOT AS DAUNTING.
NOW I'M GOING TO TRY A COURSE.
AND I THINK THAT UNLESS WE SORT
OF TACKLE THOSE FEARS, WE'RE
SORT OF CHASING GHOSTS IN THIS
DISCUSSION RATHER THAN GETTING
AT THE HEART OF WHAT WE'RE
DOING, BECAUSE YOU ASKED EARLIER
ARE WE GOING TO PLACE BETS, AND
CANADIANS TYPICALLY WE DON'T
LIKE TO PLACE BETS, BUT THE
REALITY IS THAT THE WORLD IS
SHIFTING AND WE'RE MOVING MORE
AND MORE TOWARDS A TECH-BASED
ECONOMY, AND SO THE MORE THAT
CANADA SORT OF PUTS ITS HEAD IN
THE SAND AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO
CREATE SUPER-CLUSTERS, WHICH IS
GREAT, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO SORT
OF COVER EVERYTHING AS OPPOSED
TO PICKING A LANE, THE MORE IT
HURTS US FOR OUR LONG-TERM
FUTURE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Patricia Kozicka, @TrishKozicka."
Then, it changes again to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says I WANT TO THANK THE
FOUR OF YOU FOR GETTING OUR
HEADS OUT OF THE SAND TONIGHT.
STEVEN MURPHY, SUNIL JOHAL,
GLADYS OKINE, MIKE McDERMENT,
GREAT TO HAVE ALL OF YOU ON TVO
TONIGHT AND CONGRATS ON THE
RE-BRANDING. ONTARIO TECH U,
THERE YOU GO.

Watch: Coming Up With a Skills Strategy That Works