Transcript: Aging and Dying Behind Bars | Mar 28, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Aging and dying behind bars. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says FULLY 25 PERCENT OF
THOSE INCARCERATED IN CANADA'S
PRISONS TODAY ARE CONSIDERED
ELDERLY, WHICH FOR PRISONERS IS
50 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER.
IT'S A GROWING COHORT, AND
ACCORDING TO A NEW FEDERAL
REPORT, THE SYSTEM IS NOT
EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THEM
BECAUSE "PRISONS WERE NEVER
INTENDED TO BE NURSING HOMES,
HOSPICES, OR LONG-TERM CARE
FACILITIES."
SO WHAT SHOULD BE DONE WITH
AGING PRISONERS?
LET'S ASK IVAN ZINGER.
HE IS CORRECTIONAL INVESTIGATOR
OF CANADA.

Ivan is in his late fifties, balding, with a trimmed goatee. He's wearing rounded glasses, a black suit, white shirt, and spotted red tie.

Steve continues AND LAURA TAMBLYN WATTS, A CHIEF PUBLIC POLICY OFFICER AT CARP.
THAT'S AN ORGANIZATION THAT
ADVOCATES FOR OLDER CANADIANS.

Laura is in her forties, with shoulder-length straight blond hair. She's wearing a blue blazer.

Steve continues AND WE'RE DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU
TWO HERE ON TVO TONIGHT TO HELP
US OUT WITH THIS.
I'D LIKE TO KNOW, FIRST OF ALL,
WHAT PROMPTED THE WRITING OF
THIS REPORT.

The caption changes to "Ivan Zinger. Office of the Correctional Investigator."
Then, it changes again to "When jails become hospices."

Ivan says WELL, MY OFFICE, THE OFFICE
OF CORRECTIONAL INVESTIGATOR,
HAS BEEN DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE
FOR NOW OVER 15 YEARS.
WE'VE MADE COUNTLESS
RECOMMENDATIONS TO TRY TO
IMPROVE, A TREND THAT HAS BEEN
KNOWN FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
SO THIS TIME WAS AN OPPORTUNITY
FOR US TO GIVE A VOICE TO THOSE
MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE AGING IN
OUR... AND DYING IN OUR PENITENTIARIES.

Steve says ANY SENSE, LAURA,
ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HERE?

The caption changes to "Laura Tamblyn Watts. CARP."

Laura says I THINK ABOUT 14,000 PEOPLE,
BUT WE SEE THIS AS AN INCREASING
PROBLEM BECAUSE THE WAY THAT THE
AGING DEMOGRAPHIC IS IS NOT, YOU
KNOW, YEAR BY YEAR.
IT'S ACTUALLY SORT OF ON THIS
TYPE OF A SCALE.
SO WE'RE SEEING IT SHARPLY
INCREASING.
WE'RE VERY WORRIED ABOUT IT.

Steve says I'M OVER 50 AND I
DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF ELDERLY,
BUT FOR YOUR PURPOSES, 50 PLUS
IS CONSIDERED ELDERLY.
HOW COME?

Ivan says WELL, THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT
UPON ADMISSION PEOPLE COME INTO
THE PENITENTIARY SYSTEM, THE
FEDERAL SYSTEM, ARE USUALLY
SHOWING AGES THAT MAY BE TEN
YEARS OLDER THAN THEIR
CHRONOLOGICAL AGE.
SO THEY COME IN WITH, YOU KNOW,
CHRONIC DISEASES AND MANY, MANY
ISSUES, HEALTH-WISE.
AND EVEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
DEATH IN CUSTODY, THE AVERAGE
AGE FOR NATURAL DEATH IN
PENITENTIARIES IS AGE 60, AND
THAT'S A FAR CRY FROM THE NORMAL
LIFE EXPECTATION.

Steve says SO CHRONOLOGICALLY
THEY MAY BE 50, BUT BECAUSE OF
THE HARD LIVES THEY LED, THEY
MAY PRESENT AS 60 YEAR-OLDS OR
BEYOND?

Ivan says EXACTLY.

Steve says THAT'S THE IDEA.
CAN YOU SHARE WITH US SOME OF
THE STORIES YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT
EXPERIENCES THAT HAVE HAPPENED?

The caption changes to "Laura Tamblyn Watts, @ltamblynwatts."
Then, it changes again to "Old and infirm."

Laura says WE REALLY SEE A WIDE RANGE OF
EXPERIENCES, AND THIS FALLS INTO
A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES, AND THE REPORT
REALLY SHOWS THAT.
YOU HAVE SOME THAT GO IN FOR
PERHAPS A SERIOUS OFFENCE AND
THEN NEVER GET RELEASED.
AND YOU'D EXPECT THEM TO BE
RELEASED ON AVERAGE MAYBE ABOUT
18 YEARS IN, BUT ACTUALLY THEY
ARE THERE FOR DECADES AND
DECADES.
SO WE SEE PEOPLE AGING IN PRISON
WHO SHOULD HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN
RELEASED OR PATROLLED.
WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.
WE MAY HAVE SEEN PEOPLE WHO
COMMITTED OFFENCES, MAYBE SEX
OFFENDERS THAT ARE HISTORICAL,
AND THEY GO IN AS AN OLDER
PERSON AND THEN THEY HAVE TO
CONTEND WITH THOSE TYPES OF
SCENARIOS.
BUT WHAT WE SEE ALSO IS THAT
PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE SOME TYPE OF
COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT, MENTAL
HEALTH, ADDICTIONS, OR
INCREASINGLY DEMENTIA, BEING PUT
INTO LONG-TERM CARE OR
DEVELOPING DEMENTIA INTO
LONG-TERM CARE, AND FOR THOSE
GROUP OF PEOPLE, WE REALLY ARE
NOT NEEDING ANY OF THEIR...
MEETING ANY OF THEIR BASIC
NEEDS.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says WHAT'S THE SENSE OF
THE COST OF KEEPING AN INMATE IN
A PRISON?

Ivan says WELL, THE FEDERAL COST IS
116,000 dollars A YEAR, AND WE KNOW
FROM RESEARCH AND THE DATA...

Steve says PER INMATE?
MORE THAN 100,000 dollars PER INMATE?

Ivan says PER INMATE PER YEAR.
AND WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE
AGING OFFENDERS, YOU CAN FACTOR
MORE... IT COULD BE AS FAR AS
TWO TO FOUR TIMES MORE THAN FOR
YOUNGER INMATES.
SO THE COSTS ARE EXTRAORDINARILY
HIGH, AND OUR VIEW IS THAT MANY
OF THEM DO NOT POSE A SAFETY
RISK TO SOCIETY.
THE COSTS ARE EXORBITANT, AND WE
BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S
UNNECESSARY INCARCERATION THAT
IS TAKING PLACE, AND THAT MANY
OF THOSE OFFENDERS COULD BE
ACCOMMODATED BETTER WITH MORE
DIGNITY IN THE COMMUNITY IN A
SETTING SUCH AS A NURSING HOME,
OR A HALFWAY HOUSE, OR LONG-TERM
CARE FACILITY THAT WOULD BE PAID
BY CORRECTIONS THAT WOULD BE AT
A FRACTION OF THE COST OF
KEEPING THEM INCARCERATED.

Steve says SO CHEAPER AND BETTER?

Ivan says YEAH.

Steve says IF IT'S CHEAPER AND
BETTER, WHY AREN'T WE DOING IT?

Laura says I THINK MOSTLY BECAUSE
THEY'RE OLD, AND ON THE WHOLE,
WE IGNORE ISSUES RELATED TO
OLDER PEOPLE, THROW OUR HANDS UP
AND SAY IT'S TOO DIFFICULT TO
FIGURE OUT.
SO THE CORRECTIONS ISSUE IS
SAYING WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE
NURSING HOMES, WE'RE NOT
SUPPOSED TO BE HEALTH CARE
PROVIDERS, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO
BE HELPING PEOPLE WITH, YOU
KNOW, DIAPER CHANGES OR BLOOD
ISSUES OR...

Steve says AND THEY MAY NOT HAVE
BEEN TRAINED TO DO THAT EITHER.

Laura says THEY'RE NOT.
IT'S NOT THEIR JOB.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND IN THE
NURSING HOMES WE ALREADY DON'T
HAVE BEDS FOR PEOPLE IN THE
COMMUNITY AND WE ALREADY DON'T
HAVE KIND OF COMMUNITY-BASED
SUPPORT.
SO WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE DOING
THIS, AND SO WHAT HAPPENS I
THINK IS THAT OLDER OFFENDERS
JUST GET LEFT.

Steve says HMM.
YOU HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL REPORT ON
THE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU, WHICH
I SUSPECT YOU KNOW A LITTLE
SOMETHING ABOUT.
REPLETE WITH RECOMMENDATIONS, NO
DOUBT.
WHY DON'T YOU GIVE US THE
RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU THINK
WOULD BE MOST SIGNIFICANT TO
ALLEVIATING THE PROBLEMS WE'VE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

The caption changes to "Community alternatives."

Ivan says I THINK IT'S ABOUT SHIFTING
RESOURCES TO THE COMMUNITY.
SO WHEN WE CONDUCTED THIS
INVESTIGATION JOINTLY WITH THE
CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS
COMMISSION, I SHOULD SAY, IN
PARTNERSHIP, WE FOUND TOO MANY
INSTANCES WHERE IT WAS CLEAR TO
US THAT YOU HAVE TO SORT OF
SCRATCH YOUR HEAD AND FIGURE OUT
WHY THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE IN
JAIL, INCARCERATED, WHEN THEY
MAY BE IN WHEELCHAIR, THEY MAY
SUFFER FROM DEMENTIA, THEY MAY
HAVE... NOT EVEN BEING AWARE OF
WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND THEM.
THEY MAY, YOU KNOW, BE HAVING TO
HELP IN TERMS OF MOBILITY WITH
WALKERS, CANES.
SOME HAVE OXYGEN TANKS.

Steve says DOESN'T SOUND LIKE
REALLY A THREAT TO ANYBODY.

Ivan says CERTAINLY, AND IF THEY ARE
WHATEVER RISK THEY POSE CAN BE
PROPERLY MANAGED VERY WELL IN
THE COMMUNITY.
SO I THINK IT'S ABOUT
SHIFTING... THE MAIN
RECOMMENDATION IS ABOUT SHIFTING
THE RESOURCES THAT CORRECTIONS
HAS, AND CORRECTIONS HAS A LOT
OF RESOURCES, A BUDGET OF 2.5
BILLION dollars, AND TRYING TO GET
BETTER CORRECTIONAL OUTCOME AND
SAVE SOME MONEY AND SHIFT THOSE
RESOURCE IN THE COMMUNITY.
THERE ARE MANY ORGANIZATIONS.
FOR EXAMPLE, A COUPLE OF HALFWAY
HOUSES THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN
THIS AS BEST PRACTICES, THE
HAILEY HOUSE IN PETERBOROUGH,
AND THERE IS THE CROSSROAD IN
QUEBEC.
THOSE INDIVIDUALS WOULD BE MORE
THAN HAPPY TO ENHANCE SERVICES
SO THAT THEY CAN OFFER
PALLIATIVE SERVICES, END-OF-LIFE
SERVICES, GERIATRIC SERVICES,
THESE KINDS OF THINGS, BUT YOU
COULD EXPAND THIS, AND THERE ARE
MANY ORGANIZATIONS LIKE
ST. LEONARD'S SOCIETY, JOHN
HOWARD SOCIETY, FOR EXAMPLE, OR
ELIZABETH FRY SOCIETY, THAT
WOULD BE MUCH... VERY MUCH
WILLING TO TAKE ON THIS SEGMENT
OF THE INMATE POPULATION AND
PROVIDE SERVICES THAT ARE, YOU
KNOW, MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT
CANADIAN I THINK EXPECT.

Steve says OKAY, THAT'S ONE VIEW.
THAT IS, IF I MAY PUT IT THIS
WAY, A MORE PROGRESSIVE APPROACH
TO THE ISSUE.
THERE ARE GOING TO BE PEOPLE
WATCHING THIS RIGHT NOW SAYING,
YOU KNOW WHAT, THEY DID THE
CRIME, THEY GOT TO DO THE TIME.
TOO BAD ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL
CIRCUMSTANCES.
JAIL IS THE PLACE FOR YOU.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?

Laura says ON THE WHOLE JAIL IS PROBABLY
NOT THE PLACE FOR THESE PEOPLE.
SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT
PEOPLE WHO JUST HAPPEN TO NOT
WANT TO BE IN JAIL.
IT'S REALLY A MISMATCH FROM THE
SERVICE DELIVERY MODEL AND THEIR
NEEDS, AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS
ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS
LIKE END-OF-LIFE CARE AND
COMPASSIONATE CARE.
THERE'S NO REASON TO DIE IN
JAIL, AND JAILS WEREN'T MADE FOR
THOSE REASONS.
I THINK ANOTHER PIECE THOUGH IS
YOU HAVE TO SEE THAT THIS REPORT
SHOWED THAT OLDER PRISONERS ARE
NOT BEING RELEASED IN A TIMELY
FASHION.
THEY ARE BEING LEFT TO LANGUISH
IN JAIL.
THAT'S LACK OF ADVOCACY OR
COMMUNITY-BASED RESOURCES.
IF THEY WERE YOUNGER, THEY WOULD
PROBABLY GET OUT, BUT THEIR
CASES ARE BEING IGNORED AND
THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Steve says LET ME DO A FOLLOW-UP
HERE.
THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE IN
SOCIETY ALREADY WHO HAVEN'T
COMMITTED CRIMES WHO ARE ON WAIT
LISTS TO GET INTO LONG-TERM CARE
FACILITIES OR PLACES THAT ARE
MORE APPROPRIATE TO THEIR NEEDS.
ARE WE SAYING WE WANT THEM TO
WAIT EVEN LONGER SO THAT
SOMEBODY WHO MAY HAVE A CRIMINAL
RECORD AND WHO COULD, YOU KNOW,
AVAIL THEMSELVES OF THOSE
FACILITIES JUST AS WELL, OUGHT
TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY?

Laura says THERE'S A HUGE STIGMA PIECE TO THAT.
WHEN I SAY MY MOM'S BEEN WAITING
FOR THREE YEARS BUT YOU'RE
TELLING ME THIS PERSON WHO
COMMITTED THIS TERRIBLE CRIME
CAN GET IN BEFORE ME, AND THAT
IS PART OF THE TENSION THAT
WE'RE SEEING.
BUT I THINK IT'S A BIT OF A
FALSE TENSION.
THEY HAVE TO BE SOMEWHERE
BECAUSE WE HAVE A FEDERAL
RESPONSIBILITY OR IN SOME CASES
A PROVINCIAL RESPONSIBILITY.
WE CAN'T JUST WASH OUR HANDS AND
SAY WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO PAY
ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE, SO
THERE HAS TO BE SERVICES BUILT.
BUT WHAT IT SHOULD NOT BE IS AT
COST OF PEOPLE WHO ALSO NEED
THOSE SERVICES.
SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS
ADDING SERVICES, NOT TAKING AWAY
FROM PEOPLE WHO ALREADY NEED
THOSE SERVICES.

Steve says IVAN, WHAT WOULD YOU
SAY TO THAT PERSON WHO FEELS
THAT PAIN THE SAME WAY?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Ivan says WELL, I THINK WE'RE NOT
TRYING TO STEAL ANY EXISTING BEDS.
I THINK THE CORRECTIONAL SERVICE
OF CANADA MUST PURCHASE THOSE
BEDS AND DO RSDS AND PUT IT UP
FOR TENDER.
FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE STATES, THE
STATE OF CONNECTICUT, FOR
EXAMPLE, THEY ACTUALLY PARTNER
WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR, AND
THEY BOUGHT BASICALLY BED
CAPACITY FOR A NURSING HOME.
SO THESE ARE EXTRAS AT A
FRACTION OF THE COST.
SO I THINK THERE'S SOME... YOU
KNOW, SOME JUGGLING AROUND
AROUND RESOURCES, AND IT'S
ALWAYS DIFFICULT FOR A LARGE
ORGANIZATION TO LET GO OF THEIR
RESOURCES, BUT THIS SHOULD BE
DONE.
AND THIS IS ONE AREA WHERE THE
SERVICE NEEDS TO MOVE QUICKLY
BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY INSTANCES
WHERE AGING OFFENDERS ARE BEING
VICTIMIZED, INTIMIDATED, BULLIED
INSIDE PRISON.
THEY ARE BEING, FOR EXAMPLE...
THERE ARE YOUNGER OFFENDERS MAY
MUFFLE THEM TO GIVE OUT THEIR
CANTEEN OR GIVE OUT THEIR
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, AND THE
SERVICE IS JUST NOT UP TO THE
TASK TO PROTECT THOSE VULNERABLE
INMATES.

Steve says NOW I THINK THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM, LAURA, DOES
PROVIDE FOR SOMETHING LIKE
COMPASSIONATE RELEASE, THAT IF
SOMEBODY IS, YOU KNOW, PRETTY
MUCH NOT A THREAT TO ANYBODY
ANYMORE AND THEIR PERSONAL
HEALTH CIRCUMSTANCES ARE DIRE,
THEY CAN GET OUT EARLY.
IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'RE
ADVOCATING FOR MORE?

Laura says WHAT WE SEE IS THAT
COMPASSIONATE RELEASE EXISTS
MORE IN THEORY THAN IT DOES IN
PRACTICE IN CANADA FOR AGING
OFFENDERS, AND IT'S RARE THAT WE
WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THE
AMERICAN SYSTEM DOES IT BETTER.
IN FACT IT'S QUITE SHOCKING TO
SAY THAT ABOUT A PRISON SYSTEM,
EXCEPT I'M GOING TO SAY THAT THE
AMERICAN SYSTEM IN MANY CASES
DOES IT BETTER, AND MANY OTHER
COUNTRIES MORE THAN THAT.
WE HAVE A COMPASSIONATE CARE
RELEASE PROGRAM, BUT WE JUST
MOSTLY DON'T USE IT.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE NEED TO
PAY ATTENTION TO THE RESOURCES
THAT WE DO HAVE, WHERE WE HAVE
PEOPLE LANGUISHING THAT SHOULD
BE OUT, WE SHOULD BE MAKING SURE
THAT WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO
THEM. JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE OLDER
DOESN'T MEAN THEIR CASES SHOULD
BE IGNORED.

Steve says THIS IS FROM THE
SPOKESPERSON FOR CORRECTIONAL
SERVICES CANADA, AND WE'LL GET
OUR DIRECTOR TO BRING IT UP
SO EVERYONE CAN READ ALONG...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Statement from the Correctional Service of Canada." The quote reads "We agree that the issues identified by the OCI in its reports are important. Though our approaches may differ, given that we must also manage the operational, financial and staffing realities that come with making any changes, we believe we are making progress towards our shared goals and desired outcomes."
Quoted from a Spokesperson, Correctional Service of Canada. March 26, 2019.

Steve says IVAN, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT
STATEMENT?

Ivan says WELL, I ACTUALLY WROTE TO THE
COMMISSIONER A LETTER ONCE I
RECEIVED HER RESPONSE TO MY
RECOMMENDATIONS TO SORT OF VOICE
MY CONCERN THAT THE RESPONSE
THAT WE WERE PROVIDED BY HER
ORGANIZATION WAS BASICALLY
RECYCLED MATERIAL FROM A YEAR
AGO WHICH WAS TOOK INTO
CONSIDERATION WHEN WE WROTE THIS
REPORT.
SO THE PROBLEM IS ONE OF HAVING
CONCRETE STEPS AND TIMELINES.

Steve says WELL, THEY SAY THEY DO.
THEY SAY THEY'RE MAKING PROGRESS
ALREADY ON YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

The caption changes to "A growing problem."

Ivan says YES, BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE
THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON THAT
WE'VE BEEN RAISING FOR 15 YEARS
NOW, AND THERE'S NO SENSE OF
URGENCY IN THAT RESPONSE.
SO I HAVE NO PROBLEM THAT, YOU
KNOW, MORE RESEARCH, MORE
STUDIES, MORE REVIEWS ARE
REQUIRED, BUT AT ONE POINT YOU
GOT TO SAY: WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS
THAT ARE LANGUISHING IN PRISON,
YOU KNOW, AND ALSO DYING OF
NATURAL CAUSE IN PRISON WHERE
THEY COULD ACTUALLY BE
TRANSFERRED TO THE COMMUNITY.
LET'S DO SOMETHING WITH THAT AND
LET'S, FOR EXAMPLE, PUT A GROUP
TOGETHER AND REVIEW ALL THE
CASES AND BUY SOME BEDS AND GET
IT MOVED ON.
SO THIS IS THE QUESTION OF A
BUREAUCRACY THAT IS TAKING FAR
TOO LONG.
THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT, IT'S
REMARKABLE, BACK IN THE YEAR
2000, CORRECTIONAL SERVICE
CANADA ACTUALLY ESTABLISHED
OLDER OFFENDER BRANCH BECAUSE
THEY SAW THAT THIS WAS COMING.
IT WAS, OF COURSE, SUSPENDED TWO
YEARS LATER.
THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO A
NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR AGING
OFFENDERS AND NEVER DID, AND
WE'RE STILL NOT FURTHER AHEAD.
THERE'S A DRAFT NOW OUT THERE.
WE STILL HAVEN'T SEEN THE... IT
HASN'T BEEN RELEASED PUBLICLY,
SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BE IN
A BUSINESS WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU
ARE CONSTANTLY REMINDED THAT
THERE'S BETTER AND MORE
EFFECTIVE WAY AND MORE HUMANE
WAY OF DOING BUSINESS, AND THE
BUREAUCRACY IS JUST NOT ABLE TO
CATCH UP.

Steve says LAURA, HOW CONFIDENT
ARE YOU THAT CORRECTIONAL
SERVICES CANADA IS ADEQUATELY
SEIZED OF THIS ISSUE?

Laura says NOT VERY CONFIDENT AT ALL.
WE'VE BEEN TRACKING THIS ISSUE
FOR ABOUT 15 TO 20 YEARS AND
HAVE SEEN EXCELLENT REPORTS,
LIKE THE ONE THAT IS HERE TODAY,
AND YET ALMOST NO CHANGES
IN-BETWEEN.
AND I WAS OFFER THAT IN OUR VIEW
IT'S PURE AGEISM.
YOU KNOW, THE WORLD HEALTH
ORGANIZATION FOUND IN 2017 THAT
AGEISM WAS THE MOST COMMON FORM
OF DISCRIMINATION IN THE WORLD,
MORE THAN RACE, MORE THAN
GENDER, MORE THAN SEXUAL
ORIENTATION, MORE THAN RELIGION.
AGEISM.
AND I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT
IF YOU HAD 20 YEARS OF REPORTS
SAYING MASSIVE AND SIGNIFICANT
HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES ARE
HAPPENING TO A PARTICULAR
POPULATION, IF YOU PUT THOSE
INTO OTHER FORMS OF "ISMS" TO A
PARTICULAR POPULATION, A YOUNGER
POPULATION, AN INDIGENOUS
POPULATION, A BLACK POPULATION,
THERE MIGHT BE A SENSE OF
URGENCY.
BUT THERE IS ALMOST NO SENSE OF
URGENCY BECAUSE THE SENSE IS
THAT OLDER PEOPLE WILL SIMPLY
DIE AND THE PROBLEM WILL GO
AWAY.
AND YET WE KNOW THE DEMOGRAPHICS
AREN'T WORKING THAT.
THEY ARE SHARPLY INCREASING YEAR
OVER YEAR, AND URGENT STEPS ARE
NEEDED NOW.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_OConnor."

Steve says WELL, WE ARE HAPPY TO
PUT THE ISSUE ON THE RADAR
SCREEN FOR THOSE WATCHING AND
LISTENING TO US RIGHT NOW, SO WE
THANK LAURA TAMBLYN WATTS FROM
CARP AND IVAN ZINGER, THE
CORRECTIONAL INVESTIGATOR OF
CANADA FOR COMING INTO TVO TONIGHT.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve continues THANKS SO MUCH, YOU TWO.

Laura says THANKS VERY MUCH.

Ivan says THANK YOU.

Watch: Aging and Dying Behind Bars