Transcript: Stanley Grizzle: Civil Rights Pioneer | Feb 15, 2019

Nam sits in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a spotted blue blazer.

A caption on screen reads "Stanley Grizzle: Civil Rights Pioneer. Nam Kiwanuka, @namshine, @theagenda."

Nam says IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO
STANLEY GRIZZLE IS, SETTLE IN,
BECAUSE AUTHOR ACADEMIC AND
JOURNALIST CECIL FOSTER IS HERE
ON WHY EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW
ABOUT THIS ACCOMPLISHED CANADIAN
AND HIS ENDURING LEGACY.
CECIL FOSTER IS PROFESSOR AND
CHAIR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSNATIONAL STUDIES AT THE
STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT
BUFFALO, AND AUTHOR MOST
RECENTLY OF "THEY CALL ME
GEORGE: THE UNTOLD STORY OF
BLACK TRAIN PORTERS AND THE
BIRTH OF MODERN CANADA."

Cecil is in his sixties, balding, with a goatee. He's wearing a black coat and a gray shirt.
A picture of his book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a black and white picture of a boy standing straight next to a train car.

Nam continues WELCOME.

Cecil says IT'S A
PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

Nam says IT IS A FANTASTIC BOOK.

Cecil says THANK YOU.

Nam says I WANT TO TALK TO YOU
ABOUT SOMEONE WHO FEATURES A LOT
IN THE BOOK.
I'M FROM UGANDA.
I CAME TO CANADA AS A REFUGEE.
NOW I'M A CANADIAN CITIZEN.
BUT I WOULDN'T BE HERE IF IT
WASN'T FOR MEN LIKE MR. STANLEY
GRIZZLE.
WHY DON'T WE KNOW MORE ABOUT
PEOPLE LIKE HIM?

A picture shows Stanley Grizzle in his eighties, wearing a formal black suit with several decorations.

The caption changes to "Cecil Foster. Author, 'They call me George.'"
Then, it changes again to "A born leader."

Cecil says GOOD QUESTION.
I THINK THAT WE DON'T KNOW
BECAUSE THERE'S STILL THE
HANGOVER THAT CANADA WAS IN FACT
A WHITE COUNTRY AND IT WAS
PRIMARILY WHITE PEOPLE WHO MADE
CANADA.
EVEN IF WE LISTEN AND
PARTICIPATE IN THE MULTICULTURAL
DIALOGUE IN CANADA, IT IS
USUALLY PRESENTED AS A STRUGGLE
BETWEEN WHITE FRENCH, WHITE
ENGLISH.
NO OTHER GROUPS REALLY MATTERED.
STANLEY GRIZZLE WAS RIGHT IN THE
HEART OF THAT DISCUSSION ON
MULTICULTURALISM, ON CANADA, ON
WHAT CANADA OUGHT TO BE,
IMPORTANTLY, AND HE'S JUST BEEN
LEFT OUT, LIKE SO MANY OTHER
NON-WHITES WHO HAVE BEEN LEFT
OUT OF THAT DISCUSSION.
AND I AM HOPING THAT WITH THIS
BOOK THAT WE CAN RECALIBRATE
AND, IN A WAY, LOOK AT HISTORY
DIFFERENTLY.
AND FOR ME, LOOK AT THE HISTORY
OF CANADA NOT IN A ROMANTICIZED
SENSE BUT AS THE RESULT OF THE
STRUGGLES THAT PEOPLE OF COLOUR
HAVE HAD TO PARTICIPATE IN AND
CERTAINLY THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE
STAN GRIZZLE, AS NOTED IN HIS
BOOK, "MY NAME IS NOT GEORGE,"
SOME OF WHICH HE OUTLINED, BUT
THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT WE OUGHT
TO KNOW ABOUT STAN GRIZZLE AND
THE PEOPLE OF THAT PERIOD.

Nam says AND THE TITLE OF HIS
BOOK REFERRED TO WHAT TRAIN
PORTERS WERE CALLED BACK IN THE
DAY, AND STANLEY GRIZZLE WAS A TRAIN PORTER.
WHAT DID HE DO?
HE WAS BORN OF JAMAICAN PARENTAGE.
BUT WHAT DID HE DO AND WHY
SHOULD WE KNOW ABOUT STANLEY GRIZZLE?

The caption changes to "Cecil Foster. Suny Buffalo."

Cecil says I LIKE TO ME THAT WHAT WE
SHOULD KNOW ABOUT STANLEY
GRIZZLE IS THAT HE IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY OF US BEING
HERE, FOR ME BEING HERE IN THIS
COUNTRY, FOR YOU COMING FROM
UGANDA, AND BECAUSE, REMEMBER,
THAT THERE WAS A TIME QUITE
RECENTLY WHEN CANADA WAS
INTENDED TO BE A WHITE MAN'S COUNTRY.
IF YOU WERE FROM EUROPE AND
PARTICULARLY FROM THE U.K., YOU
HAD A FREE PASS INTO CANADA.
IN FACT, SOME WHITES AS WELL
FROM THE UNITED STATES AND THE
OTHER DOMINIONS, THE WHITE
DOMINIONS, BUT IF YOU WERE
BRITISH SUBJECTS FROM UGANDA,
FROM KENYA, FROM PARTICULARLY
THE WEST INDIES, YOU CANNOT GET
INTO CANADA.
THERE WAS A GROUP CALLED
NEGRO CITIZENSHIP ASSOCIATION,
THEY WENT TO OTTAWA AND THEY
CONFRONTED THE GOVERNMENT OF THE
DAY AND THEY SAID, LOOK, YOUR
IMMIGRATION POLICY IS WRONG.
YOU CANNOT EXCLUDE ALL OF
HUMANITY AND TRY TO MAKE CANADA
EXCLUSIVELY FOR WHITE PEOPLE.
HISTORY WOULD NOT JUDGE YOU
WELL.
MORALITY WOULD NOT JUDGE YOU
WELL.
AND ETHICALLY, IT'S JUST POOR
POLITICS.
AND THEY CONTINUED THAT FIGHT
FOR DECADES, AND THEN
ULTIMATELY, THEY GOT THE
GOVERNMENT TO CHANGE THE
IMMIGRATION POLICY THAT WAS
BASED ON MERIT, NO LONGER WAS IT
BASED PRIMARILY ON RACE.
AND AS A RESULT, THAT OPENED THE
DOOR, AND I LIKE TO THINK THE
RESULT IS THE CANADA THAT WE
ENCOUNTER ON THE STREETS OF
PLACES LIKE TORONTO, IN
BRAMPTON, IN AJAX, IN THUNDER
BAY, ACROSS CANADA, THE CANADA
THAT IS VERY MULTICULTURAL.

Nam says SO THE BOOK IS CALLED
"THEY CALL ME GEORGE," AND IT'S
FOCUSING ON TRAIN PORTERS
BECAUSE DURING THAT TIME, THAT
WAS THE ONLY PROFESSION THAT
BLACK MEN WERE ALLOWED TO PURSUE.
AND MR. GRIZZLE WAS A TRAIN PORTER.
CORRECT?

The caption changes to "Working on the railways."

Cecil says CORRECT.
THIS GOES BACK TO THE BEGINNING
OF CANADA, CONFEDERATION, EVEN
BEFORE THAT IF YOU LOOK AT IT
CONTINENTLY TO THE END OF THE
CIVIL WAR IN THE UNITED STATES
WHEN MANY OF THE EX-SLAVES WERE
UNEMPLOYED AND THERE WAS A MAN
BY THE NAME OF GEORGE PULLMAN
WHO TOOK AN IDEA THAT WAS FIRST
DEVELOPED IN CANADA THAT IS OF
LUXURY TRAIN TRAVEL AND, HE
SAID, LOOK, YOU KNOW, I CAN
PROVIDE A KIND OF SERVICE WHERE
PEOPLE CAN GET ON THE TRAIN ON
THE COAST AND TRAVEL RIGHT
ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO THE OTHER
SIDE, NEVER HAVING TO GET OFF,
BUT THEY GET IMPECCABLE LUXURY
SERVICE.
IT WAS AN ELITE SERVICE.
THEY SLEPT ON THE TRAINS.
THEY ATE ON THE TRAINS.
THEY HAD THEIR SHOES POLISHED.
THEY WERE TAKEN CARE OF FROM
HEAD TO TOE.

Nam says AND YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE PASSENGERS.

Cecil says THESE WERE THE PASSENGERS.
SO TO DO THAT, TO PROVIDE THAT
SERVICE, HE WENT TO THE SOUTHERN
UNITED STATES AND HIRED THESE
EX-SLAVES WHO WERE IN FACT LIKE
THE SLAVES THAT WERE IN THE
GREAT HOMES.
AND HE OFFERED ON THE TRAIN A
REPLICATION OF THAT KIND OF
ANTI-BELLUM SERVICE THAT YOU
WOULD GET IN THE GREAT HOUSES IN
THE SOUTH.
SO THESE MEN WERE REALLY GOOD
DOMESTICS, AND THROUGHOUT THE
PERIOD THEY WERE OFTEN TAUGHT BY
THE RAILWAYS TO BE GOOD
HOUSEKEEPERS.
SO WHEN THEY WORKED ON THE
TRAIN, IT WAS LIKE THEY'RE
INVITING YOU INTO THE GREAT
HOUSE AND YOU REMAIN ON THE
TRAIN.
THEY PROVIDE YOU WITH EVERYTHING
OF LUXURY THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT
AT THE GREAT HOUSE, AND THAT WAS
THEIR JOB.

Nam says THE PASSENGERS HAD A
VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE FROM
THE TRAIN PORTERS BECAUSE THE
TRAIN PORTERS HAD TO ALSO BE I I
IMPECCABLY DRESSED.
THEY SLEPT ON THE TRAIN.
MR. GRIZZLE WAS A TRAIN PORTER.
HOW WERE THEY TREATED DAY TO DAY?

Cecil says THEY WERE TREATED QUITE
BADLY.
THERE'S HISTORY IN THE BLACK
COMMUNITY ABOUT THESE TRAIN
PORTERS.
THOSE WHO WERE PERHAPS THE MOST
ENVIOUS OF THE LOT BECAUSE IT
WAS STILL BECAUSE THEY GOT TIPS
AND THEY GOT MONEY, IT WAS STILL
SOMETHING THAT THEY ASPIRED TO,
AND AT LEAST THEY HAD WORK.
SO THOSE WHO WERE ENVIOUS WOULD
CALL THEM CHAMBERMAIDS, SAYING
YOU GUYS ARE NO MORE THAN
CHAMBERMAIDS, YOU ARE CLEANING
UP AND DUSTING AND DOING THINGS
YOU WOULD NOT EVEN DO IN YOUR
HOMES.
SO THOSE WERE THE ENVIOUS LOT.

Nam says THAT'S COMING FROM THE
BLACK COMMUNITY.

The caption changes to "Cecil Foster, @cecilfosterca."

Cecil says IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
SO THERE WAS THIS KIND OF
AMBIVALENCE IN THE COMMUNITY.
BUT FOR THOSE WHO GOT THE JOBS
AND WHO ASPIRED TO DO THE JOBS,
THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT
BACK HOME MONEY.
THEY BROUGHT BACK HOME GOODS
FROM OUT OF TOWN.
THEIR KIDS AT LEAST HAD TOYS.
AND THEY HAD A LIFE THAT OTHERS
WERE ENVIOUS OF.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A REASON
FOR THAT.
BECAUSE WELL INTO THE 1960S
AND A PART OF THE '70S, THAT
WAS THE ONLY JOB THAT WAS
AVAILABLE TO BLACK MEN.
I MEAN, BY THE TIME YOU GET TO
THE '60S AND '70S, WE
STARTED TO BREAK DOWN THOSE
BARRIERS.
BUT CERTAINLY UNTIL THEN...

Nam says WHY COULDN'T THEY WORK
ANYWHERE ELSE?

Cecil says BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY
SOCIETY WAS STRUCTURING ITSELF.
NOW, WHEN YOU READ PEOPLE LIKE
BRADLEY ARMSTRONG AND OTHERS WHO
WOULD TELL THE STORY ABOUT
ARRIVING IN TORONTO IN THE
1940S AND THEN THE '50S AND
WANTING TO FIND WORK AND GOING
TO PLACES LIKE EATON'S AND
ELSEWHERE, THEY WERE SIMPLY
TOLD, "NOT HERE, BUT GO TO THE
RAILWAYS.
THE RAILWAYS ARE HIRING."
BECAUSE THOSE WERE THE ONLY JOBS
THAT WERE AVAILABLE TO BLACK
MALES, EARLY TEENS UNTIL ABOUT
THE 50S IN AGE.
NOT TO WOMEN BECAUSE WOMEN
DIDN'T SO MUCH WORK ON THE
TRAINS.
THEY PROBABLY WORKED IN THE
LAUNDRY ROOMS AND ELSEWHERE, BUT
IT WAS VERY MUCH A MALE JOB, AND
IT WAS A JOB WHERE YOU STARTED
AS A PORTER AND 20, 30, 40 YEARS
LATER, YOU ENDED YOUR LIFE AS A
PORTER.
THERE WASN'T A POSSIBILITY OF
PROMOTION...

Nam says TO BECOME A CONDUCTOR.

Cecil says TO BECOME A CONDUCTOR,
BECAUSE THOSE WERE CONSIDERED TO
BE OPERATIONAL JOBS, AND THE
PORTERS WERE NOT OPERATIONAL,
THEY WERE SERVICE.

Nam says AND PENSION?
WAS THERE A PENSION?

Cecil says THERE WAS NO PENSION UNTIL
VERY LATE IN THE DAY, BY WHICH
TIME THEY BECAME UNIONIZED.
BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE
OPERATIONAL... SORRY, THEY WERE
NOT OPERATIONAL, THEY WERE
SERVICE, IT MEANT, FOR EXAMPLE,
THE LAWS THAT WOULD LIMIT THE
NUMBER OF HOURS CONSECUTIVELY
THAT YOU COULD WORK DIDN'T APPLY
TO THEM.
SO WHILE THERE ARE CAR PORTERS,
AMONG THEMSELVES THEY USED TO
JOKE THAT THEY WERE SLEEPY
CAR PORTERS.

Nam says BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD
A CHANCE TO SLEEP.

Cecil says THEY NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO
SLEEP.
YOU CAN IMAGINE THEM GOING
ACROSS THIS GREAT COUNTRY,
THEY'RE GOING ACROSS DIFFERENT
TIME ZONES, DIFFERENT PROVINCES,
ALL WITHIN A 24-HOUR PERIOD,
GETTING BY ON 3 HOURS' SLEEP.

Nam says WHEN I WAS READING THE
BOOK, ONE OF THE THINGS OF HOW
THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO CONDUCT
THEMSELVES WAS THAT THE CUSTOMER
WAS ALWAYS RIGHT, AND IF A
CUSTOMER SAID THAT A PORTER DID
SOMETHING BAD, THE PERSON ENDED
UP GETTING FIRED.
IF SOMEONE HEARD OUR
CONVERSATION AND HEAR THEY HAD
CONSISTENT PAY, THEY HAD WORK,
THEY WERE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF
THEIR FAMILIES, THEY'LL THINK,
WELL, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM, YOU
KNOW?
WHAT HAPPENED?
WHY DID STANLEY GRIZZLE AND THE
REST OF THE PORTERS DEMAND FOR MORE?

The caption changes to "Fighting discrimination."

Cecil says EXCELLENT QUESTION.
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO ENJOY THE
FULLNESS OF CANADIAN
CITIZENSHIP, THE FULLNESS OF
BEING A BRITISH SUBJECT.
NOW, MANY OF THEM HAD COME FROM
THE WEST INDIES WHERE THERE WAS
A GROWING SENSE OF NATIONHOOD
AND OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND HUMAN
DIGNITY, AND THOSE WHO WERE
LIVING IN CANADA... BECAUSE
QUITE A NUMBER OF THE SLEEPING
CAR PORTERS WERE RECRUITED FROM
THE WEST INDIES, AND MANY OF
THEM, WHEN THEY CAME HERE,
DISCOVERED THAT THEY WERE MORE
DEHUMANIZED IN CANADA THAN IN
THE WEST INDIES AND ELSEWHERE.
SO THEY ARGUED THAT AS SUBJECTS,
BRITISH SUBJECTS, THEY SHOULD
GET THE SAME TREATMENT AS
CANADIANS.
NOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
1940S INTO THE 1950S.
THIS IS WHEN CANADA IS WRESTLING
WITH THE WHOLE QUESTION OF
CITIZENSHIP, WHERE WE'RE GETTING
FOR THE FIRST TIME THE
CODIFICATION OF WHAT IS A
CANADIAN SUBJECT OR WHO CAN BE A
CANADIAN SUBJECT, AND WE ARE
GETTING THE NOTION THAT IS A
CANADIAN SUBJECT PRIMARILY GOING
TO BE A WHITE PERSON OR A
BRITISH PERSON, OR ARE THEY
GOING TO BRING IN OTHERS AND
RECOGNIZE THEM AS CITIZENS?
AND GRIZZLE AND HIS COLLEAGUES
WERE SAYING BLACK PEOPLE OUGHT
TO BE RECOGNIZED FULLY AS
CITIZENS.
PEOPLE OF COLOUR... NOW, ONE OF
THE POINTS THAT I WOULD MAKE ON
THAT.
FOR EXAMPLE, AT THAT TIME, WHEN
THEY WERE ADVOCATING FOR THE
CHANGE IN THE APPROACH OF
CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION,
BECAUSE IMMIGRATION DECIDED WHO
BECOMES THE FUTURE CITIZENS.
FOR EXAMPLE, AT THAT TIME, THERE
WAS A QUOTA WHICH SAID THAT FROM
ALL OF INDIA, 150 PEOPLE WOULD
BE ALLOWED ANNUALLY.

Nam says ONE FIVE ZERO.

Cecil says ONE FIVE ZERO.
THE SAME NUMBER, ONE FIVE ZERO,
FROM PAKISTAN, AND 50 FROM
CEYLON, WHICH IS NOW SRI LANKA.
AND MOST YEARS, CANADA DID NOT
MEET THAT QUOTA.
SO THAT THERE WERE VERY FEW
NON-WHITES THAT WERE BEING
ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTRY.
SO GRIZZLE AND OTHERS SAID,
LOOK, THIS IS A QUESTION OF
CITIZENSHIP.
WHY IS IT THAT SOMEONE LIKE
BRAITHWAITE FROM BARBADOS WHO
HAS WORKED ALL HIS LIFE IN
CANADA ON THE RAILROAD AND WOULD
LIKE TO BRING HIS DAUGHTER FROM
BARBADOS, SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE IS
BLACK?
YOU ARE DENYING HIM HIS
CITIZENSHIP.

Nam says THAT'S ONE OF THE
CASES YOU TALKED ABOUT IN THE
BOOK.
IN THE END, HOW DID THEY END UP
CHANGING WHAT CANADA IS?

Cecil says WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
THEY DID, THEY WERE PRETTY
SUCCESSFUL AFTER A WHILE IN
GETTING THE EAR OF PEOPLE LIKE
PRIME MINISTER DIEFENBAKER, WHO
WAS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE
FRIEND OF THE PORTERS,
ESPECIALLY ON HIS LONG TRIPS OUT
TO ALBERTA AND BACK, HE SPENT A
LOT OF TIME WITH THE PORTERS AND
WITH LESTER PEARSON AND
ULTIMATELY PIERRE TRUDEAU.
AND WHAT THEY DID WAS TO GET
CANADA TO RECOGNIZE THAT A LOT
OF THE SKILLS THAT WERE
ASSOCIATED WITH GOOD
HOUSEKEEPING, THAT THESE WERE
SKILLS THAT HELPED OUR ECONOMY,
HELPED TO MEET NEEDS IN THE
ECONOMY, BUT ALSO THAT THE FACT
THAT THOSE WHO OUGHT TO BECOME
CANADIAN OUGHT NOT TO BE
RESTRICTED BASED ON
RACIALIZATION, AND THAT'S WHERE
THEY MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
AND ULTIMATELY THEY GOT CANADA
TO, FIRST OF ALL, OPEN THE DOORS
BY ALLOWING DOMESTIC WORKERS
FROM THE CARIBBEAN IN AND THEN
ULTIMATELY WE HAD PEOPLE FROM
MEXICO, PEOPLE FROM THE
PHILIPPINES, PEOPLE FROM EASTERN
EUROPE AND ELSEWHERE WHO WERE
LEFT OUT, SO THE ORIGINAL
DOMESTIC WORKERS WERE FROM...

Nam says JAMAICA.

Cecil says JAMAICA AND BARBADOS, AND
ELSEWHERE.
THEY GOT TO THE POINT TO GET
CANADA TO VERY MUCH AGREE THAT
WHEN IT IS CHOOSING IMMIGRANTS
FROM AROUND THE WORLD, THEY
WOULD LOOK AT THEIR ABILITY.
THAT'S WHY WE GET THE POINTS
SYSTEM, WHICH IS WHAT ARE YOUR
SKILLS?
WHAT ARE YOUR EXPERIENCES?
AND YOU GET POINTS...

Nam says INSTEAD OF COLOUR...
WE ONLY HAVE A FEW MINUTES.

Cecil says AND GEOGRAPHY.

Nam says WE ONLY HAVE A FEW
MINUTES, BUT MR. GRIZZLE PASSED
AWAY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.
WHAT DO YOU THINK HIS LEGACY
WILL BE?

Cecil says FOR ME HIS LEGACY OUGHT TO BE
ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF MODERN
CANADA, QUITE FRANKLY, THAT
PEOPLE LIKE HIM WENT OUT AND
INSTILLED IN CANADIANS THE IDEA
OF WHO OUGHT TO BE A TRUE
CANADIAN AND THAT CANADA COULD
REACH ITS FULL POTENTIAL BY
BEING A HOME TO PEOPLE OF COLOUR
FROM AROUND THE WORLD, WHERE
PEOPLE CAN WORK IN THE
FRATERNITY, IN THE BROTHERHOOD
THAT HE LIKES TO TALK ABOUT.
SO THAT THE IDEA THAT WE ARE ALL
HERE, WE MIGHT BE DIFFERENT, BUT
WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AND BE
RESPECTFUL OF ONE ANOTHER, WITH
NO LIMITS PLACED ON OUR
ACHIEVEMENTS.

Nam says EVEN AFTER THE PORTERS
ISSUE PASSED ON AND HE LEFT THE
RAILWAY, MR. GRIZZLE CONTINUED
TO WORK FOR... TO FIGHT FOR
CIVIL RIGHTS.
TO WHAT EXTENT HAS HE BEEN
FORGOTTEN IN THIS CONVERSATION
OF A MULTICULTURAL CANADA?

The caption changes to "Beyond the rails."

Cecil says I THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN
FORGOTTEN FROM THE POINT OF VIEW
THAT WE DO NOT GIVE HIM THE
CREDIT THAT HE DESERVES.
I MEAN, WE KNOW THAT ONE OR TWO
PLACES MIGHT STILL REFER TO HIM,
THAT HE ENDED HIS LIFE BEFORE
RETIREMENT AS A CITIZENSHIP
JUDGE, THERE MIGHT BO
SCHOOLS NAMED AFTER HIM.
BUT I THINK WE NEED TO PUT HIM
ON A HIGHER PEDESTAL.
NOT HE ALONE, BUT THAT GROUP OF
VERY AMBITIOUS, THOSE MEN AND
WOMEN OF THE 1950S AND '60S
WHO SET ABOUT TO CHANGE CANADA
AND AGAINST GREAT ODDS SUCCEEDED.

The caption changes to "Producer: Colin Ellis, @ColinEllis81."

Nam says THERE'S SO MUCH TO
TALK ABOUT IN THIS BOOK, AND YOU
ACTUALLY ARE GOING TO BE COMING
BACK FOR A LONGER CONVERSATION
WITH ME IN THE SUMMER TIME.
BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH,
MR. FOSTER, FOR GIVING US A
SNAPSHOT OF THE LEGACY OF
MR. STANLEY GRIZZLE.
WE APPRECIATE IT.

Cecil says IT WAS MY PLEASURE.

Nam says THANK YOU.

Watch: Stanley Grizzle: Civil Rights Pioneer