Transcript: The Ontario PC Environment Plan | Dec 04, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and checked purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "The Ontario PC Environment plan. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says ONTARIO HAS A NEW
PLAN TO DEAL WITH CLIMATE
CHANGE.
UNVEILED LAST WEEK, IT TAKES A
VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH THAN THE
PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT DID.
HERE TO EXPLAIN THE PATH
FORWARD:
ROD PHILLIPS, HE'S ONTARIO'S
MINISTER OF THE ENVIRONMENT,
CONSERVATION AND PARKS, AND HE'S
THE PC MEMBER FOR AJAX.

Phillips is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted blue tie.

Steve continues WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU IN THAT
CHAIR, I THINK FOR THE FIRST
TIME SINCE YOU'VE BEEN THE MINISTER.

Phillips says FIRST TIME SINCE THE MINISTER.

Steve says CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT.
HERE WE GO.
I WANT TO JUST START, SHELDON,
IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, BRING UP
THIS GRAPHIC AND WE'LL GO
THROUGH SOME OF THE BULLET
POINTS OF THE REPORT YOU HAVE IN
FRONT OF YOU.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "For the environment. The Ontario PC Green Plan."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
YOU AIM TO PROTECT RIVERS TO
DESIGN EMISSIONS TESTING FOR
HEAVY DUTY VEHICLES AND CREATING
A REAL-TIME MONITORING SYSTEM
FOR WASTE WATER AND FLOWS.
YOU WILL ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE
THROUGH AN ASSESSMENT AND
CREATING THE ONTARIO CARBON
TRUST THAT WILL SPEND AN
ESTIMATED 350 MILLION Dollars ON
LEVERAGING PRIVATE CAPITAL FOR
CLEAN TECHNOLOGIES.
WASTE AND LITTER WILL BE REDUCED
BY MEASURES SUCH AS AN OFFICIAL
PROVINCIAL LITTER CLEANUP DAY.
AND YOU WANT TO CONSERVE LAND
AND GREENSPACE BY IMPROVING LAND
USE RULES TO PROTECT VULNERABLE
AREAS AND STOPPING INVASIVE
SPECIES.
THESE ARE A FEW OF THE POINTS.
IT OBVIOUSLY GOES INTO MUCH MORE
DEPTH THAN THAT.
LET'S JUST START WITH THIS: IF
THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO FULFILL
THIS PLAN AS IT IS WRITTEN, HOW
WILL OUR PROVINCE BE DIFFERENT
FOUR YEARS FROM NOW?

The caption changes to "Rod Phillips. Minister of the Environment, Conservation, and Parks."
Then, it changes again to "A greener province."

Phillips says WELL, FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, I
THINK THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE,
STEVE, FROM TODAY, IS THAT
PEOPLE WILL FEEL A BIT MORE
CONNECTED TO HOW THE ENVIRONMENT
AFFECTS THEM AND WHAT MATTERS TO
THEM.
SO WE TALK ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS NEW
VISITORS TO OUR PARKS, SO ABOUT
10 MILLION DOLLARS VISITORS TODAY, ABOUT
A 10 PERCENT INCREASE IN THAT.
WE TALK ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE
IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE
THROUGH THE FIRST IMPACT
ASSESSMENT, SOMETHING THAT'S
BEEN DONE SUCCESSFULLY IN OTHER
JURISDICTIONS, DOWN TO THE LEVEL
OF UNDERSTANDING HOW IT AFFECTS
YOUR COMMUNITY OR YOUR STREET.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS PEOPLE
UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY NEED TO
DO TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THAT
REGARD.
THERE WILL BE A BETTER APPROACH
TO WASTE AND LITTER, AND WHAT
THAT SHOULD MEAN FOR PEOPLE IS
LESS WASTE AND LITTER IN THEIR
PARKS, ON THEIR STREETS.
SO IDEALLY, THIS IS REALLY ABOUT
CONNECTING ONTARIANS TO THEIR
ENVIRONMENT, CONNECTING
ONTARIANS TO THEIR GREEN SPACE
IN A WAY THAT HELPS THEM SEE THE
ROLE THEY PLAY AND ALSO ENJOY
IT.
I MEAN, IT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
THINGS ABOUT LIVING HERE IN THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

Steve says INDEED.
HOW WOULD YOU SAY YOUR APPROACH
TO CLIMATE CHANGE DIFFERS FROM
THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT'S
APPROACH?

The caption changes to "Rod Phillips. PC MPP, Ajax."

Phillips says WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO
CLIMATE CHANGE, IT'S A 53-PAGE
DOCUMENT, AND CLIMATE CHANGE WAS
ONE OF THE CHAPTERS, A VERY
IMPORTANT CHAPTER, BUT IT IS
PROBABLY ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE
WE MAKE THE GREATEST DIVERGENCE
FROM THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT.

Steve says THIS IS WHY I ASKED
THE QUESTION.

Phillips says AND IT WAS A GOOD QUESTION.
SO OF COURSE WHAT HAS BEEN
TALKED ABOUT A GREAT DEAL
ALREADY IS THAT WE HAVE REPEALED
THE CAP AND TRADE LEGISLATION
THAT THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT HAD
PUT INTO PLACE.
WE DID THAT BECAUSE WE WERE
CONCERNED ABOUT AFFORDABILITY
FOR ONTARIANS.
THAT PUT 264 dollars BACK INTO PEOPLE'S
POCKETS AND ALSO HAS REDUCED THE
PRICE OF GAS AND DIESEL AND
OTHER THINGS.
IN ITS PLACE, WHAT WE'VE PUT
TOGETHER ON THE CLIMATE FILE IS
A PLAN THAT DOES DEAL WITH
MITIGATION AND DOES DEAL WITH
ADAPTATION, BUT WE'VE TRIED TO
CHANGE THAT NARRATIVE A LITTLE
BIT.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT REDUCING
GREENHOUSE GASES, WHAT I THINK
WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IS ONTARIO
CONTINUING TO DO ITS SHARE.
FRANKLY WHEN YOU START TO USE
WORDS LIKE MISSION, YOU'LL LOSE
SOME OF THE STORY LINE WITH
PEOPLE.
WE KNOW THAT ONTARIO HAS ALREADY
MADE GREAT STEPS AS A RESULT OF
PREVIOUS POLICIES, AND
INVESTMENTS BY THE PEOPLE OF
ONTARIO.
SO SINCE 2005, WE'VE SEEN
EMISSIONS REDUCED BY 22 PERCENT
IN ONTARIO.
THAT'S GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.
VERSUS THE REST OF CANADA, GOING
UP BY 3 PERCENT.
WHAT WE'VE LAID OUT HERE IS A
VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD, COMMON
SENSE PLAN THAT REDUCES
GREENHOUSE GASES A FURTHER
8 PERCENT.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE'LL BE
MEETING THE OBLIGATIONS THAT THE
PRIME MINISTER AND THE
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA PUT IN
PLACE FOR US FOR 2030, IN TERMS
OF PARIS, SO WE WILL BE MEETING
THOSE OBLIGATIONS...

Steve says CAN I PUT THE TWEET
UP HERE?
HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID ON
TWITTER...

A tweet by Phillips pops up on screen.

It reads "ONTARIO HAS MADE THE SINGLE GREATEST CONTRIBUTIONS TOWARDS MEETING OUR EMISSIONS. THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO HAVE MADE SACRIFICES TO DO SO. Tomorrow, I'll announce our new Made-in-Ontario plan that will balance a healthy environment with a healthy economy."

Steve says ARE YOU READY FOR MY
FIRST SMART ALEC QUESTION HERE?

Phillips says SURE.

Steve says DO YOU WANT TO THANK
THE LIBERALS NOW PUBLICLY IN
FRONT OF OUR VIEWERS FOR CLOSING
ALL THE COAL PLANTS SO THAT YOU
WERE ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

The caption changes to "The right balance?"

Phillips says YOU KNOW, I'LL ABSOLUTELY
ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT DID.
I'LL ACKNOWLEDGE AS WELL IT WAS
STARTED BY A PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT WITH THE
CLOSING OF LAKEVIEW, THE FIRST
COAL-FIRED PLANT.

Steve says YOU ANNOUNCED THE
CLOSING OF LAKEVIEW.
YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY DO IT.
BUT ANNOUNCED IT.

Phillips says IT WAS A POLICY.
AND I WILL SAY THAT IT WAS...
PEOPLE GOT KIND OF TIRED OF
POLITICIANS AND GOVERNMENTS
TAKING CREDIT FOR EVERYTHING.
THE COST OF DOING THAT, AND THIS
FEEDS BACK INTO THE ARGUMENT
ABOUT THE CARBON TAX, WHICH HAS
BEEN SO MUCH OF THE DEBATE SO
FAR, AND I APPRECIATE TODAY IS
ABOUT OUR PLAN, OUR ENVIRONMENT
PLAN.
BUT OUR ARGUMENT AROUND THE
CARBON TAX HAS BEEN THAT PEOPLE
CAN'T AFFORD IT.
IT'S ALSO BEEN THAT CARBON TAXES
ARE INEFFECTIVE.
ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S VERY
EXPENSIVE FOR ONTARIANS TO
AFFORD IT NOW IS WHAT THEY PAID
TO GET RID OF COAL.
ABOUT 40 BILLION DOLLARS OF CAPITAL.
ABOUT 400 dollars PER FAMILY PER YEAR.
FOR A RESTAURANT ABOUT 5,000 dollars IN
ADDITIONAL ENERGY COSTS PER YEAR
ONGOING.
THOSE ARE THE EXPENDITURES THAT
ONTARIO MADE, AND IT'S ONE OF
THE REASONS THAT ONTARIO IS SO
FAR ADVANCED TO THE REST OF
CANADA IN TERMS OF REDUCING
EMISSIONS.

Steve says NO MORE SMOG DAYS.

Phillips says AND NO MORE SMOG DAYS.
SO IT IS A GOOD THING.
IT IS ALSO THE OBVIOUS STARTING
POINT FOR WHERE YOU WOULD BUILD
A PLAN FROM.
TO PRETEND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
SO ON WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TO
CONTINUE TO DO OUR SHARE, THERE
ARE SIX KEY COMPONENTS OF WHAT
WE WILL DO, AND THOSE COMPONENTS
COLLECTIVELY GET US TO THE PARIS
TARGETS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER
AGREED TO WITHOUT A CARBON TAX.
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN,
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, COMMONLY
CALLED ADAPTATION, BUT I LIKE TO
TALK ABOUT AS HELPING FAMILIES
AND COMMUNITIES PREPARE FOR
CLIMATE CHANGE AND DEAL WITH
CLIMATE CHANGE, REALLY IS ABOUT
A MUCH MORE GRANULAR
UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT CLIMATE
CHANGE MEANS.
AND SO PART OF THIS IS THE
ASSESSMENT.
THE FIRST-EVER ASSESSMENT IN
ONTARIO OF THE ACTUAL IMPACT OF
CLIMATE CHANGE.
AND HELPING PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND
THAT THROUGH VARIOUS TOOLS, BUT
FRANKLY A FAIR BIT OF WORK THAT
HAS TO BE DONE TO DRIVE IT DOWN
TO A COMMUNITY LEVEL.
AND DEALING WITH PRACTICAL
MATTERS.
PRACTICAL MATTERS LIKE FLOODING
BASEMENTS, ERODING SHORELINES.
THINGS PEOPLE RELATE TO AND
UNDERSTAND AND WANT TO MAKE A
DIFFERENCE IN.
AND LIFT EVERYBODY IN THIS AND
NOT HAVE IT BE AN ABSTRACT
CONVERSATION HAPPENING IN POLAND...

Steve says THAT IS SOMETHING
I'VE HEARD YOU DISCUSS
PREVIOUSLY, WHEREAS THE PREVIOUS
GOVERNMENT MAY HAVE BEEN TALKING
UP HERE ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE,
YOU'RE DOWN TO EARTH.
MORE DOWN TO EARTH.

Phillips says DOING OUR BEST, YES.

Steve says DO YOU THINK AT THE
END OF THE DAY THAT GETS US
THERE, THOUGH?
THAT'S THE THING.
IT MAY BE A MORE COMPREHENSIBLE
MESSAGE, IT MESSAGE THAT HITS
HOME BETTER, BUT DOES IT GET US
TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE?

Phillips says THERE ARE TWO PARTS.
THE PART THAT GETS US TO WHERE
WE NEED TO BE IN TERMS OF
REDUCING GREENHOUSE GASES THAT
HAS ONTARIO CONTINUING TO DO ITS
SHARE, MOVING FROM THE
22 PERCENT REDUCTION TO
8 PERCENT, THE PARIS TARGET,
THAT'S GOING TO INVOLVE A NUMBER
OF INITIATIVES, INCLUDING HOW
ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE ADOPTED,
INCLUDING CONSERVATION OF
NATURAL GAS, WHAT WE DO WITH OUR
CARBON TRUST.
THE PIECE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS
IS HAPPENING AND THIS IS
HAPPENING TO YOU.
IT'S HAPPENING TO ME.
IT'S HAPPENING TO OUR FAMILIES.
IT'S HAPPENING TO OUR COMMUNITY.
SO WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN?
WHAT IT MEANS IN A PROVINCE THE
SIZE OF ONTARIO IS DIFFERENT
ACROSS ONTARIO.
OUR NORTH IS BEING AFFECTED
DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE
THE REALITY OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS
THAT IT AFFECTS NORTHERN
CLIMATES MORE.
BUT WHEN PEOPLE IN AJAX CAN
APPRECIATE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT
IT MEANS TO THEM, I THINK THAT'S
GOING TO ENGAGE THEM
DIFFERENTLY.
AND THE ONE THAT MOST FREQUENTLY
TALK ABOUT IS THIS ISSUE OF
FLOODING IN BASEMENTS.
YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD IT TOO,
STEVE.
PEOPLE SAY, I HEAR ABOUT THAT
MORE THAN I USED TO.

Steve says YOU HEAR ABOUT IT...

Phillips says YOU HEAR ABOUT IT BECAUSE
IT'S HAPPENING MORE.
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT ISN'T
ADEQUATE.
THAT'S TRUE.
WE HAVEN'T BEEN INVESTING
ADEQUATELY IN INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS.
PEOPLE HAVEN'T PREPARED FOR
THAT.
THAT 30,000 TO 40,000, A
FLOODED BASEMENT, IS GOING TO
GET PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.
THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.
PEOPLE'S ATTENTION ON WHY
CLIMATE CHANGE MATTERS.

Steve says YOU KNOW THE PEMBINA
INSTITUTE.
A REPUTABLE GROUP THAT'S BEEN
OUT THERE FOR A LONG TIME.
HERE IS WHAT THE REGIONAL
DIRECTOR HAS TO SAY ABOUT THAT
PLAN ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Running out of time." The quote reads "The Ontario PC plan contains mainly aspirational statements and plans to make plans, without seriously demonstrating how the government will lead Ontario to a low-carbon economy.
As the recent United Nations IPCC report made clear, we need urgent action to limit climate change and head off its more extreme impacts. Ontario is already experiencing extreme climate events, from the polar vortex the last few winters, to the record-setting wildfires of this past summer, to the flooding in Toronto, Ottawa and Windsor. We do not have the luxury of stalling on climate action for the next four years."
Quoted from Robin Edger, Pembina Institute. November 29, 2018.

Steve says HOW DO YOU RESPOND
TO THE NOTION THAT THE PLAN IS THIN?

Phillips says YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S
NOT. IT HAS DETAIL.
IT HAS A REALLY COMPREHENSIVE
APPROACH THAT DOES POINT TO THE
SPECIFIC INITIATIVES THAT WE ARE
GOING TO UNDERTAKE.
BUT FOLKS AT PEMBINA AND THE
OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS, AND
FRANKLY THE LAST PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT, HAD A PERSPECTIVE ON
A GREEN ECONOMY, WHICH WAS THAT
IT WAS UP TO GOVERNMENT TO MOVE
ONTARIO TO A LOW CARBON ECONOMY,
THAT THAT WAS EVEN POSSIBLE,
THAT FRANKLY GOVERNMENTS COULD
SIMPLY DECIDE IN THEIR WISDOM
THAT THIS WAS WHAT WAS GOING TO
HAPPEN.
STEVE, THAT'S WHAT LED TO THE
WINDMILL FIASCO, THAT'S WHAT LED
US TO SOME OF THE GAS PLANT
ISSUES.
WE DON'T SEE THE GOVERNMENT'S
ROLE AS DIRECTING THE ECONOMY IN
A CERTAIN DIRECTION.
THIS IS ABOUT SPECIFIC TARGETS.
IT'S ABOUT REDUCING GHGs AND
THE THINGS WE'VE PUT IN PLACE
WILL HELP US GET TO THERE...

Steve says SO WHAT DO YOU SEE
AS THE GOVERNMENT'S ROLE?

Phillips says WITH REGARDS TO THIS
ENVIRONMENT PLAN, IT'S ABOUT
SETTING OUT A VISION FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE CAN HAVE
CLEAN AIR, CLEAN WATER, CLEAN
LAND.
WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE,
THERE ARE SPECIFIC TARGETS.
TARGETS THAT WERE AGREED TO
INTERNATIONALLY BY OUR PRIME
MINISTER, BY THE MINISTER OF
ENVIRONMENT.
WE WANT TO HIT THOSE TARGETS.
WE WANT TO PREPARE ONTARIANS TO
THE FACT THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS
HAPPENING.
BUT THE PEMBINA INSTITUTE AND
OTHERS WANT TO RECREATE THE
WORLD ECONOMY INTO A GREEN
ECONOMY.
THE FEDERAL MINISTER OF THE
ENVIRONMENT TALKS ABOUT SIX OR
SEVEN OF EVERY TEN JOBS IN THE
NEXT FIVE YEARS AS BEING GREEN
JOBS.
I'M NOT SURE THAT'S PRACTICAL OR
LIKELY.
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
ONTARIO DOES ITS SHARE,
CONTINUES TO DO OUR SHARE, AND
FRANKLY COMPARED TO THE REST OF
CANADA WE'RE ON A GOOD ROUTE AND
MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE PREPARED
ABOUT IT.
WITH THE ENVIRONMENT IN GENERAL,
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE ONTARIANS
ENJOY THEIR ENVIRONMENT, WE ARE
BEING TOUGH ON POLLUTERS, WE ARE
TAKING ADVANTAGE OF TECHNOLOGY,
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN PASS
ON AN ENVIRONMENT AT LEAST AS
GOOD OR BETTER THAN THE ONE WE
INHERITED.

Steve says SMART ALEC QUESTION
NO. 2: CAN YOU TELL ME THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ROD
PHILLIPS THAT WAS ENTREATED TO
RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE BY THE
FORMER PC LEADER PATRICK BROWN
ON A PLATFORM THAT INCLUDED A
CARBON TAX AND THE ROD PHILLIPS
THAT IS SITTING IN FRONT OF ME
TODAY WHO IS PART OF DOUG FORD'S
CABINET WHO IS SUDDENLY
VIOLENTLY OPPOSED TO A CARBON TAX?

Phillips says I TAKE THE IDEA OF VIOLENT...

Steve says TAKE OUT THE WORD "VIOLENTLY."

The caption changes to "Eco conservatism."

Phillips says THE REASON I RAN FOR PUBLIC
OFFICE WAS BECAUSE I WAS DEEPLY
CONCERNED ABOUT THE DIRECTION
THAT KATHLEEN WYNNE WAS GOING
AND THAT THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT
WAS GOING IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE
OF OUR PROVINCE, IN TERMS OF
COMPETITIVENESS, IN TERMS OF
WHAT WE NEED TO DO...

Steve says I GET THAT.
BUT YOU WERE ON THE RECORD AS
BEING PRO-CARBON TAX ONCE UPON A
TIME.
THAT WAS EARLIER THIS YEAR.
WHAT HAPPENED?

Phillips says YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED WE HAD A LEADERSHIP.
AND THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING WE
PLANNED FOR.
WE WENT THROUGH A LEADERSHIP
PROCESS, WHICH AS YOU WELL KNOW
IS WHAT PARTIES DO TO DECIDE,
YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR POSITIONS
ARE.
ALL OF THE LEADERSHIP
CANDIDATES, INCLUDING THE ONE
THAT I SUPPORTED, SUPPORTED
GETTING RID OF A CARBON TAX, AND
OUR PARTY MADE THAT DIRECTIONAL
CHANGE.
IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE IDEA
THAT I RAN ABOUT, THE REASON I
RAN, WHICH IS THAT WE NEED TO
MAKE ONTARIO A MORE COMPETITIVE
PLACE.
WE NEED TO DEAL WITH
AFFORDABILITY FOR ONTARIANS.
THE CARBON TAX AND THE
CAP-AND-TRADE SYSTEM, WERE
NOT... YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE
SOMETHING CALLED CUMULATIVE
EFFECT, I'VE LEARNED SINCE
BECOMING MINISTER OF
ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S A CONCEPT IN THE
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY ABOUT,
YOU DON'T JUST LOOK AT THE ONE
SMOKE STACK, YOU LOOK AT ALL THE
SMOKE STACKS.
YOU DON'T LOOK AT ONE SOURCE OF
POLLUTION, YOU LOOK AT ALL THE
SOURCES OF POLLUTION.
THE CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF ALL THE
THINGS THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT
HAD PUT ON ONTARIANS WAS PUTTING
ONTARIO AT RISK, INCLUDING THE
ADDITION OF A CAP-AND-TRADE
CHARGE THAT WAS GOING TO COST
ONTARIO FAMILIES HUNDREDS AND
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR.
SO I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH
THIS POSITION.
VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PLAN.
AND VERY COMFORTABLE THAT WE'RE
GOING TO NOW AS A PROVINCE BE
ABLE TO MEET THE OBLIGATIONS
THAT WE SET INTERNATIONALLY AND
NOT HAVE THAT CARBON TAX.

Steve says HERE'S WHAT THE
GLOBE AND MAIL EDITORIAL BOARD
HAD TO SAY ABOUT YOUR PLAN...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "This way up." The quote reads "As promised, carbon pricing -the provincial and federal Liberal plan, and the idea embraced by most economists- is dismissed and decried. Instead, a conservative government promises to come up with more regulations, rules and standards, combined with hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies.
The PCs have taken the previous government's carbon plan, removed what was best and amped up what was worst. The best part, a carbon price that left it up to the marked to figure out how to lower emissions, is gone.
The worst part, a lot of government meddling in business, combined with taxpayer funds for polluters and green initiatives, remains. You can only call this progress if you're looking at it upside down."
Quoted from The Globe and Mail. November 29, 2018.

Steve says YOUR RESPONSE?

Phillips says YOU KNOW, THERE IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE, AND I RESPECT ALL THEIR
OPINIONS, BUT THERE IS A GROUP
OF OBSERVERS, PARTICULARLY MEDIA
OBSERVERS, WHO SEE A CARBON TAX
AND A CLIMATE PLAN AS THE SAME
THING.
THIS IS DANGEROUS FOR TWO
REASONS.
THINGS AS COMPLICATED AS CLIMATE
ARE NEVER GOING TO BE SOLVED
WITH ONE SILVER BULLET.
IN FACT, WHEN YOU TALK TO SOME
PEOPLE WHO WERE ORIGINALLY
SUPPORTIVE OF A CARBON TAX AND
NOW BACKED AWAY FROM IT, ONE OF
THE REASONS THEY HAVE IS BECAUSE
IT HAS THIS TRANQUILIZING EFFECT
WHERE PEOPLE GO, NOW WE'RE DOING
SOMETHING.
WHERE IN FACT IT REALLY HASN'T
BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO DO MUCH.
THE MAJOR PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN
MADE IN THIS COUNTRY AND
ELSEWHERE HAS NOT BEEN THROUGH A
CARBON TAX BUT OTHER
INITIATIVES.
I UNDERSTAND WHY A NEWSPAPER WHO
HAS ALREADY STAKED ITS CLAIM ON
A CARBON TAX BEING PART OF A
CLIMATE PLAN.
THEY SHOULD DEAL WITH THE
OUTCOMES, NOT THE WAY WE GET
THERE.
IT'S THE SAME THING I'VE BEEN
SAYING TO MINISTER McKENNA.

Steve says THE FEDERAL
ENVIRONMENT MINISTER.

Phillips says WE DISAGREE ABOUT THIS.
I BELIEVE SHE BELIEVES THAT A
CARBON TAX IS THE RIGHT
SOLUTION.
IT MAY BE FOR SOME PLACES.
IT'S NOT NECESSARY IN ONTARIO.
AS I SAID, ONTARIO FAMILIES HAVE
ALREADY PAID A GREAT DEAL FOR
THE PROGRESS WE'VE MADE.
MORE THAN ANY OTHER PART OF THE
COUNTRY.
SO ONTARIO FAMILIES HAVE ALREADY
PAID 400 A FAMILY TO GET RID OF
COAL, AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE HEAD
AND SHOULDERS LEADING THE REST
OF THE COUNTRY, AND WE CAN FIND
A PLAN THAT GETS US TO THE
TARGETS THAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS SET AND THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS SET.
WHY WOULD THE GLOBE AND MAIL OR
ANYBODY ELSE WANT US TO IMPOSE A
PUNITIVE TAX ON FAMILIES AT A
TIME WHEN AFFORDABILITY IS THE
ONE ISSUE THAT EVERY PARTY
AGREED ON IN THE LAST ELECTION.

Steve says I THINK THEIR VIEW
IS POLLUTION SHOULDN'T BE FREE.

Phillips says AND THE IDEA OF REGULATION
AROUND BIG EMITTERS, MAKING
POLLUTERS PAY, SUGGESTS THAT
POLLUTION ISN'T FREE.
BUT THE IDEA THAT INDIVIDUAL
FAMILIES CAN AFFORD TO CONTINUE
TO PAY MORE AND MORE, THAT
CUMULATIVE EFFECT WE'VE TALKED
ABOUT, STEVE, IN THE LAST
PROVINCIAL ELECTION, YOU WOULD
HAVE SEEN THIS, THE ONE THICK
EVERY PARTY AGREED ON WAS
AFFORDABILITY WAS THE ISSUE.
THE NDP AND THE LIBERALS CHOSE
TO DEAL WITH IT THROUGH
REDISTRIBUTION.
THEY WERE TRYING TO TAKE SOME
PEOPLE'S MONEY AND GIVE IT TO
OTHER PEOPLE.
OURS WAS TO CREATE WEALTH, A
BIGGER PIE.
WE GOT A MANDATE TO TAKE THAT
APPROACH AND THAT'S THE APPROACH
WE'RE TAKING.
IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE WE GOT A
MANDATE.
IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD
ONE MORE TAX.
A CUMULATIVE EFFECT IS LITERALLY
MAKING PEOPLE CHOOSE, I'M
CAREFUL WITH AJAX, BETWEEN
HEATING AND WHAT THEY WOULD BE
EATING.
AND THAT IS NOT THE SITUATION WE
WANT IN ONTARIO AND IT'S NOT
NECESSARY BECAUSE THIS PLAN
SHOWS IT ISN'T.

The caption changes to "A greener province."

Steve says WE'VE GOT A COUPLE
MINUTES LEFT HERE.
ONE OF THE BIGGER IDEAS THAT
COMES OUT OF THIS REPORT IS
CALLED THE ONTARIO CARBON TRUST.
350 MILLION DOLLARS WHICH YOU SAY WILL
UNLOCK A BILLION DOLLARS OF
PRIVATE CAPITAL.
LET'S JUST SPEND A COUPLE OF
MINUTES.
EXPLAIN TO US HOW YOU SEE THAT
ROLLING OUT.

Phillips says SURE.
THE CARBON TRUST ACTUALLY HAS
TWO COMPONENTS.
THERE'S THE 350 MILLION DOLLAR
COMPONENT THAT'S MODELLED ON THE
U.K. CARBON FUND OR THE NEW YORK
GREEN BANK.
ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE FUNDS THAT
TAKE GOVERNMENT MONEY AND SEE A
LEVERAGE OF 3 OR 4 FOR EVERY
1 APPLIED TO IT AND THAT'S BY
INVESTING IN AREAS, THE
GOVERNMENT TAKING THAT LITTLE
BIT OF EXTRA RISK AND THE
GOVERNMENT PUTTING THAT MONEY
IN, THIS COULD BE SUPPORTING, IN
A HOUSING SCENARIO, IT COULD BE
SUPPORTING SOME OF THE
REDEVELOPMENT THAT'S REQUIRED
AROUND HOW YOU'RE GOING TO DO
THINGS MORE EFFICIENTLY FROM A
CLIMATE PERSPECTIVE.
THE BUILT FORM IN BUILDINGS ARE
A GREAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE
THERE ARE A LOT OF IDEAS THAT
ARE MARKET-READY.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY COULDN'T
BE SUPPORTED BY THAT.
IT COULD BE SUPPORTING
TECHNOLOGY IN A PARTICULAR
INDUSTRY OR OTHERWISE THAT WOULD
HELP THAT INDUSTRY REDUCE ITS
CARBON FOOTPRINT.
IT COULD BE HELPING A COMMUNITY.
OR IT COULD BE HELPING A
MUNICIPALITY WITH A SIMILAR KIND
OF PROJECT.
THAT'S THE MODEL FROM THE GREEN
BANK.
THAT'S THE 350.
THERE'S 50 MILLION DOLLARS...

Steve says THIS IS THE REVERSE AUCTION?

Phillips says CALLED THE REVERSE AUCTION.
AND THAT IS SIMPLY, A MUCH MORE
PRAGMATIC APPROACH, WHICH IS
WHAT'S THE CHEAPEST WAY, THE
CHEAPEST PRICE I CAN REMOVE A
TONNE OF CARBON FOR.
IF WE PUT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF
DOLLARS OUT AND IF PEOPLE COME
FORWARD WITH 3 OR 4 A TONNE TO
GET RID OF SOMETHING AND USING
CARBON ACCOUNTING, IT'S
VALIDATED, AND WE BUY THOSE
TONNES.
THIS IS A PRACTICAL WAY OF
GETTING TONNES OF CARBON OUT OF
OUR ATMOSPHERE WHICH HELPS US TO
MEET THE TARGETS WE MADE WE'RE
GOING TO HIT.
BOTH OF THEM ARE THE TWO METHODS
WE FOUND WERE MOST SUCCESSFUL
INTERNATIONALLY, AND WE'LL USE
THOSE METHODS.
WE'RE GOING TO PUT UP AN
INDEPENDENT BOARD TO MANAGE
THIS.
THE NEW YORK EXAMPLE IS QUITE
RELEVANT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
THEY, LIKE TORONTO, HAVE ACCESS
TO SOME GREAT MINDS AROUND THIS,
AND WE WANT TO REALLY INCENT
THAT IN ONTARIO AS WELL.
IT'S A CHANCE FOR ONTARIO TO
LEAD IN ANOTHER AREA, THIS AREA
OF CARBON FINANCING.

Steve says THAT'S OUR TIME.
WE THANK YOU FOR COMING IN
TONIGHT AND SHARING YOUR VIEWS
WITH US.

Phillips says THANK YOU, STEVE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Mark Brosens, @MarkBrosens."

Steve says THAT'S ROD PHILLIPS,
MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT,
CONSERVATIONS, AND PARKS.
AND FOR THOSE WATCHING FROM
AJAX, HE'S YOUR MPP.
THANK YOU, MINISTER.

Phillips says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Watch: The Ontario PC Environment Plan