Transcript: Cutting Back on Meat | Feb 12, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped lilac tie.

A caption on screen reads "Cutting back on meat. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says IT USED TO BE THAT THE
CANADIAN FOOD GUIDE LISTED MEAT,
POULTRY, AND FISH AS THE MAIN
SOURCES OF PROTEIN.
THAT'S SHIFTED IN THE PAST FEW
DECADES.
AND NOW, ACCORDING TO A RECENT
REPORT, MORE THAN 6 MILLION
CANADIANS LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF
MEAT THEY EAT, AND A GROWING
NUMBER HAS GONE OFF MEAT
ALTOGETHER.
SYLVAIN CHARLEBOIS IS THE LEAD
AUTHOR OF THAT REPORT.
HE IS PROFESSOR OF FOOD
DISTRIBUTION AND POLICY, AND
SCIENTIFIC DIRECTOR AT THE
INSTITUTE OF AGRI-FOOD ANALYTICS
AT DALHOUSIE UNIVERSITY IN
HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA, AND HE
JOINS US NOW FOR MORE.

Sylvain is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing glasses, a red plaid suit and a black shirt.

Steve continues NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN, SYLVAIN.

Sylvain says AS IS YOU.

Steve says LET'S PUT SOME FACTS
UP HERE SO WE CAN START OUR
DISCUSSION.
MR. DIRECTOR, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "The meat-eating habits of Canadians."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
WHILE HALF OF CANADIANS STILL
EAT MEAT DAILY, 40 percent NOW EAT IT
JUST ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK.
HALF OF THE TOTAL SURVEYED SAID
THEY ARE WILLING TO REDUCE THE
AMOUNT THEY EAT.
ONE THIRD IN THE NEXT SIX
MONTHS.
AND OUT OF ALL THE PROVINCES,
ONTARIO APPARENTLY HAS THE MOST
PEOPLE WORKING ON REDUCING OR
ELIMINATING MEAT FROM THEIR
DIET.
WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS?

Sylvain says I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO
ASK ME WHAT'S GOING ON WITH
ONTARIO.

[Laughter].

Steve says WELL?

The caption changes to "Sylvain Charlebois. Dalhousie University."
Then, it changes again to "The meat of the matter."

Sylvain says WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S
A LOT OF FACTORS AT PLAY.
IN FACT, IN OUR STUDY WE DID
LOOK AT SIX DISTINCTIVE FACTORS.
ONE IS THE ENVIRONMENT.
MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE...
THERE ARE SOME STUDIES THAT
ACTUALLY CLAIM THAT THE
ENVIRONMENTAL FOOTPRINT OF THE
LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY IS QUITE
SUBSTANTIAL.
IT'S GETTING TO CONSUMERS, SO
CONSUMERS THAT ARE CONCERNED
ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE FEEL
PERHAPS... FEEL EMPOWERED THAT
IF THEY CHANGE THEIR HABITS,
THEIR EATING HABITS, THEY CAN
ACTUALLY... THEY WILL BE ABLE TO
IMPACT OR NOT IMPACT THE PLANET
AS MUCH.
SO THAT'S ONE THING.
THE SECOND ONE IS ANIMAL
WELFARE.
ONCE IN A WHILE WE SEE THOSE
NASTY VIDEOS REMINDING CITIZENS
THAT SOMETIMES THERE'S BAD
BEHAVIOUR ON FARMS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T
NECESSARILY... AREN'T ACCEPTING
THE FACT THAT WE PUT 50,000
CHICKENS IN ONE BARN, THOSE TYPE
OF ISSUES THAT HAVE COME UP IN
THE LAST FEW YEARS.
IT'S CHANGING PEOPLE'S
BEHAVIOUR.
THAT WOULD BE SECOND.
THE THIRD ONE IS HEALTH.
AND THAT'S A BIG ONE.

Steve says OUR OWN HEALTH?

Sylvain says OUR OWN HEALTH, ABSOLUTELY.
THE W.H.O., THE WORLD HEALTH
ORGANIZATION, BACK IN 2015 IN
OCTOBER, I REMEMBER THE MONTH
BECAUSE THREE YEARS AGO THEY
DECIDED TO CATEGORIZE PROCESSED
MEAT AS CATEGORY ONE.
CANCEROUS.
AT THE SAME LEVEL AS ASBESTOS.
NOW I REMEMBER THREE YEARS AGO
THAT REPORT WAS REALLY KILLED IN
CANADA, BUT WHEN YOU TRAVEL
AROUND THE WORLD, FOOD GUIDES
HAVE STARTED TO CHANGE,
REFLECTING WHAT IS RECOMMENDED
BY THE W.H.O.
SO HEALTH FOR CANADIANS IS
STARTING TO BE, I WOULD SAY,
PROBABLY THE TOP, THE TOP
CRITERIA AND TOP FACTOR THAT IS
ACTUALLY PUSHING CONSUMERS AWAY
FROM MEAT.

Steve says DO YOU NOTICE A
GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
OLDER AND YOUNGER IN TERMS OF
WHO WANTS TO GET OFF EATING MEAT MORE?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Sylvain says THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
FROM A DEMOGRAPHIC PERSPECTIVE,
THERE ARE TWO THINGS GOING ON
RIGHT NOW.
SO THE YOUNG GENERATIONS, SO
MILLENNIALS, THE GENERATION Z.
SO ANYONE LISTENING TO US UNDER
THE AGE OF 38, THAT'S YOU.
THAT'S THE GROUP.
THEY ARE SEEING MEAT VERY
DIFFERENTLY, AND THEY ARE BEING
AFFECTED BY THE FACTORS THAT I
JUST TALKED ABOUT.
AND THE FOURTH ONE I DIDN'T
MENTION WAS PRICE.

Steve says HMM.

Sylvain says VEGETABLE PROTEINS ARE MUCH
CHEAPER.
LENTILS AND CHICKPEAS, AND SO
THAT'S AN ATTRACTION FOR PEOPLE
WITH A LOWER BUDGET OR SMALL
BUDGET, FOOD BUDGET.
SO THE YOUNG GENERATIONS ARE
ATTRACTED TO REGIMES LIKE
VEGANISM AND VEGETARIANISM AND
FLEXITARIANISM AS WELL.

Steve says FLEXITARIANISM?
WHICH MEANS?

Sylvain says PART-TIMERS.

Steve says YOU CAN EAT MEAT, BUT
JUST NOT SO MUCH.

Sylvain says SO FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE IS
AFFECTED OR INFLUENCED BY ONE OF
THE FACTORS, THE ENVIRONMENT,
THEY WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE,
SO THEY WOULD SAY LET'S GO WITH
MEATLESS MONDAYS, AND ON
WEEKENDS WE'LL RUN BACK TO THE
BARBECUE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
SO THAT WOULD BE A FLEXITARIAN,
AND THAT'S WHERE YOU FIND MOST
BOOMERS, ACTUALLY.
BOOMERS, LOOKING AT
DEMOGRAPHICS, HAPPEN OF
FLEXITARIANS ARE BOOMERS.
AND THAT'S REFLECTIVE OF THE
GENERATION ITSELF.
BOOMERS ARE ABOUT CHOICE.
THEY WANT CHOICE.
THEY WANT FREEDOM, AND SO I
THINK THEY'RE IMPACTED BY THE
SCIENCE RELATED TO MEAT
CONSUMPTION THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER
THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT THEY
DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP MEAT.
THEY'RE STILL ATTACHED TO MEAT.
SO FLEXITARIANISM IS A GOOD FIT.

Steve says WHEN YOU SAY MEAT, DO
YOU MEAN STEAK, LIKE RED MEAT
AND CHICKEN?

Sylvain says SO THE WAY WE...

Steve says BOTH?

Sylvain says DEFINE MEAT IN OUR
SURVEYS, IT'S A GOOD THING TO
CLARIFY, IT WOULD BE BEEF, PORK,
CHICKEN.

Steve says ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Sylvain says AND GAME.

Steve says AND GAME AS WELL.

Sylvain says YEAH.
SO THAT WOULD EXCLUDE SEAFOOD
AND FISH.

Steve says MM-HM.
OKAY, LET'S KEEP LOOKING AT
DIFFERENCES HERE.
IN TERMS OF MEAT CONSUMPTION,
MEN VERSE WOMEN?

Sylvain says YES.

Steve says WHO DOES IT MORE?
I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS.

The caption changes to "Sylvain Charlebois, @scharleb."

Sylvain says YEAH, MEN.
BUT WHAT WAS INTERESTING LOOKING
AT OUR RESULTS IS... AND OF
COURSE THE MEAT INDUSTRY IS
LOOKING AT THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.
I WAS ACTUALLY WITH THE... WITH
SOME BISON PRODUCERS THE LAST
LITTLE WHILE, AND I MET A LOT OF
CATTLE PRODUCERS.
THEY ARE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT
WHAT'S GOING ON.
THEY KNOW.
I MEAN, CANADA IS CONSUMING
MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF KILOS
LESS IN A YEAR COMPARED TO 2010.

Steve says OF MEAT OF ALL KIND?

Sylvain says NO, JUST BEEF.
I MEAN, THE PER CAPITA
CONSUMPTION HAS DECLINED BY
ABOUT 2 KILOS OVER THE LAST 10
YEARS OR SO.
THAT IS A LOT... WE'RE 37
MILLION PEOPLE.
JUST THINK OF THE KILOS.
THAT'S A LOT OF COWS.

Steve says NOW THAT DOESN'T
INCLUDE BUFFALO MEAT, DOES IT?

Sylvain says NO.
THAT'S SEPARATE.

Steve says SO THE BUFFALO MEAT,
OBVIOUSLY THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS
SOME SORT OF ALTERNATIVE TO RED
MEAT?

Sylvain says CORRECT.
AND THE THING ABOUT BISON, YOU
CAN'T CALL IT BUFFALO.
I LEARNED THAT.

Steve says SORRY, RIGHT.
BISON MEAT, RIGHT.

Sylvain says BISON MEAT IS THAT IT'S
SEEN... IT'S SEEN AS NATURAL,
SUSTAINABLE, HEALTHY.
BUT IT'S DOUBLE THE PRICE.
IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE.
BUT THERE IS THAT ALLURE OF
BISON MEAT, AND THEY'RE TAKING
ADVANTAGE OF THAT IMAGE TO GO
AGAINST BEEF, BECAUSE BEEF IS
REALLY, RIGHT NOW WITH THE...
GOING THROUGH A CRISIS.
THERE'S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND,
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SUCCESS OF
THE BEYOND BURGER AT A and W, FOR
EXAMPLE, CAME OUT OF NOWHERE,
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY RUN OUT
OF STOCK IN AUGUST.
I ACTUALLY TRIED TO TASTE A
BEYOND BEEF BURGER.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE TRIED TO.

Steve says NOPE.

Sylvain says IT'S A PLANT-BASED PATTY.
THERE'S NO ANIMAL PROTEINS
THERE.

Steve says HOW DOES IT TASTE?

Sylvain says I DON'T KNOW.
THEY SOLD OUT, AND I'VE TRIED,
BUT WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT IT
TASTES THE SAME AS A TEEN
BURGER.
AND THAT'S... I THINK THAT'S THE
WAY THAT THE PLANT-BASED DIETING
OR DIET ADVOCATES ARE TRYING TO
POSITION VEGETARIANISM OR
VEGANISM, IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO
GO WITH US, IF YOU WANT TO GO
WITHOUT ANIMAL PROTEINS, WE CAN
OFFER YOU THE SAME THING.
IT WILL TASTE THE SAME THING.
BUT YOU'LL FEEL BETTER.

Steve says IS IT, IN FACT, THE
CASE THAT BISON MEAT IS
HEALTHIER THAN RED MEAT AND THAT
POULTRY IS HEALTHIER THAN BOTH
OF THEM?

Sylvain says SO, I CAN'T REALLY... I'M NOT
A MEDICAL DOCTOR, SO I DON'T
KNOW FOR SURE.
I'M NOT A NUTRITIONIST EITHER,
BUT WHAT I'VE HEARD IS THAT IT
IS RICHER IN IRON, AND IN TERMS
OF NUTRITION VALUE, IT SEEMS TO
BE BETTER.
BUT OF COURSE, BEEF PRODUCERS
PROBABLY FEEL A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENTLY.

Steve says SURE.
HOW ABOUT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT?
WHICH HAS LESS IMPACT ON THE
ENVIRONMENT AND THEN PRESUMABLY
ON CLIMATE CHANGE BEYOND THAT?

Sylvain says WELL, CLEARLY BISON BECAUSE
THEY ACTUALLY USE LESS FEED.
THEY ACTUALLY... THE CONVERSION
IS NOT AS HIGH AS BEEF.
THEY CAN ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THE
WINTER WE HAVE MUCH BETTER THAN
CATTLE.

Steve says HOW OFTEN DO YOU HEAR
OF PEOPLE TRYING TO BECK
VEGETARIAN AND THEN SAYING,
THANKS BUT NO THANKS, I'M GOING
BACK TO EATING MEAT?

Sylvain says A FEW, A FEW.
BUT HERE'S THE ONE THING I'VE
NOTICED THE LAST LITTLE WHILE.
YOU SEE, ABOUT 23 YEARS AGO... I
GREW UP IN... ON THE COUNTRYSIDE
IN QUEBEC AND VEGANS WERE SEEN
AS FREAKS OF NATURE, REALLY.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT 30
YEARS AGO, WE BARELY KNEW THAT
THE WORD EXISTED.
TODAY THEY ARE CELEBRATED.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP
FOUR FOOD BOOKS IN THE COUNTRY
RIGHT NOW IN CANADA, THREE OF
THEM ARE ABOUT VEGANISM AND ONE
OF THEM IS ABOUT RAISING
CHILDREN AS VEGANS.
IT WAS UNHEARD OF 20, 30 YEARS
AGO.

Steve says AND LET'S JUST BE
CLEAR, VEGANS MEANING NO FISH,
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO EAT EGGS.

Sylvain says YOU WON'T EVEN BUY FUR OR
ANYTHING WITH LEATHER.
THIS IS ABOUT LIFESTYLE, A
CHANGE IN LIFESTYLE.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE FULLY
COMMITTED.
WITH VEGETARIANS, I AGREE, I'VE
HEARD SOME PEOPLE SAYING, YOU
KNOW, MAYBE IT'S NOT FOR ME.
AND THEY DO CHANGE AND THEY GO
BACK.
MY OWN WIFE, ACTUALLY, DID THAT
HERSELF.
AS SOON AS SHE BECAME PREGNANT,
SHE WAS... SHE HAD SOME IRON
DEFICIENCIES, SO SHE NEEDED TO
EAT MEAT.
SO THAT'S... THOSE THINGS DO
HAPPEN FROM TIME TO TIME.
BUT I WOULD SAY WHEN YOU LOOK AT
THE NUMBER OF CANADIANS WHO ARE
EITHER REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF
MEAT OR HAVE ELIMINATED MEAT,
WE'RE LOOKING AT 6.4 MILLION
PEOPLE RIGHT NOW IN CANADA.
THAT'S THE GTA.
THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER,
AND BECAUSE OF THE PUSH OF THE
YOUNGER GENERATION, WE ESTIMATE
THAT NUMBER WILL... THAT NUMBER
WILL ACTUALLY GO UP OVER TIME.

Steve says HOW MUCH DO ECONOMICS
HAVE TO PLAY HERE?
IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE ECONOMY'S
GOOD, PEOPLE EAT MORE MEAT
BECAUSE IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE AND
IF THE ECONOMY GOES DOWN THEY
EAT LESS?
IS THAT THE CASE?

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Sylvain says SORT OF, BUT HERE'S A CASE
FOR SOCIAL ECONOMICS.
2014, PEOPLE MAY REMEMBER WHAT
HAPPENED TO BEEF PRICES IN 2014.
IN 2014, BEEF PRICES AT RETAIL
WENT UP 20 percent IN SIX MONTHS.
PEOPLE NOTICED.
THERE WAS A FOOD PRICE REPORT.
WE ACTUALLY IN OUR REPORT THIS
YEAR WE SHOWED PEOPLE THAT EXACT
LINE GOING UP IN 2014.
IF YOU TALK TO BUTCHERS, IF YOU
TALK TO FOOD RETAILERS, THAT WAS
A WATERSHED MOMENT.
IN 2014, VEGANISM SHOWED UP AS A
RESULT BECAUSE, OF COURSE,
PLANT-BASED PROTEINS ARE
CHEAPER.
WE DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT IT IN 2014.
WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IT NOW.
I WOULD SAY THAT REALLY THAT WAS
THE MOMENT, I THINK, THAT
CONSUMERS STARTED TO SHOP AROUND
FOR PROTEIN BEYOND ANIMAL
PROTEIN.

Steve says IS THERE SUCH A THING
AS ETHICAL MEAT TO EAT IN THIS COUNTRY?

Sylvain says HMM, GOOD QUESTION.
WELL, SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY
BELIEVE IN OUR STUDY WE ACTUALLY
ASKED PEOPLE IS EATING MEAT A
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT.
THERE'S A LOT OF CANADIANS OUT
THERE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT
EATING MEAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL
RIGHT AND IT IS PART OF A
BALANCED DIET.
AND THEY DO BELIEVE THAT EATING
MEAT IS, IN FACT, ETHICAL.
SO I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF
PERCEPTION.
A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE ALSO
WHO HAVE COMMITTED TO VEGANISM
BELIEVE THAT, WELL...

Steve says IT'S UNETHICAL.

The caption changes to "Eating ethically?"

Sylvain says IT'S UNETHICAL, YES.
WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT RIGHT
NOW, RIGHT NOW IS THAT YOU'RE
SEEING KIND OF THE SAME DEBATE
EMERGING AS WHAT WE SAW WITH
GMOS.
IT WAS VERY POLARIZED.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER,
FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES YOU
EITHER WERE FOR GMOS OR
GENETICALLY MODIFIED SEEDS, OR
YOU WERE AGAINST THEM.
MONSANTO, SO ON AND SO FORTH.
I'M KIND OF SEEING THE SAME
THING.
YOU'RE EITHER FOR ANIMAL
PROTEINS OR AGAINST, AND THE
VEGANISM MOVEMENT, BECAUSE I
THINK IT IS A MOVEMENT GOING
THROUGH A MOMENT, IS BECOMING
MORE AND MORE VOCAL.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
RELIGION, BECAUSE THERE ARE
MUSLIMS AND THERE ARE JEWS WHO
WOULD SAY THAT HALAL-PRODUCED
MEATS OR KOSHER MEATS ARE
TREATED IN A MORE ETHICALLY
HUMANE FASHION, PREPARED... THE
ANIMALS ARE KILLED IN A CERTAIN
WAY UNDER CERTAIN SUPERVISION
AND, THEREFORE, THAT IS A MORE,
IF YOU LIKE, ETHICAL KIND OF
MEAT TO EAT.

Sylvain says YES.

Steve says DO YOU AGREE?

Sylvain says IF THEY BELIEVE IT, FOR SURE,
ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says IS THERE EMPIRICAL
EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT, YES,
THAT IS A MORE ETHICAL WAY TO
EAT MEAT?

Sylvain says IT'S HARD TO DEMONSTRATE, TO
PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT.
I MEAN, THERE ARE CERTAIN
PRACTICES THAT ARE RECOGNIZED BY
RELIGIONS FOR SPECIFIC REASONS,
AND PERSONALLY, AGAIN, MY
BACKGROUND ARE ECONOMICS.
I SEE IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY, TO
BE HONEST.
THE HALAL MARKET, EATING KOSHER,
HAVE BEEN UNDERSERVED, AND
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT
THERE LOOKING FOR SPECIFIC
PIECES OF MEAT.
NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE,
NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF PRODUCTS
YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, FOOD
DIVERSITY PAYS.
AND WHEN YOU TALK TO BEEF
PRODUCERS, THEY DON'T BELIEVE
THAT.
THEY THINK THAT ALL CANADIANS
SHOULD EAT MEAT AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE.
IN THE AGRI-FOOD SECTOR, FOR
DECADES PRODUCERS ARE SEEING THE
WORLD THROUGH THEIR OWN
COMMODITY.
THEY DON'T SEE THEIR COMMODITY
AS PART OF A MUCH LARGER
PORTFOLIO OF INGREDIENT.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
SO WHEN BEEF PRODUCERS SEE THEIR
MARKET SHARE GO DOWN, THEY
PANIC.
OH, MY GOD, WE HAVE TO SELL
CANADIANS THAT BEEF IS GOOD.
THEY DON'T WANT TO RECOGNIZE
THAT BISON MEAT IS GOOD, OR
EATING LENTILS IS GOOD.
THEY JUST WANT TO SEE WHY NOT,
WHY NOT PROMOTE TO ONTARIANS OR
CANADIANS THAT MAKING A MEAT
LOAF WITH BEEF AND LENTILS IS A
GOOD THING.
WHY NOT?

Steve says HOW WOULD YOU KNOW,
THOUGH, IF YOU BOUGHT A PIECE OF
MEAT... LET'S SAY YOU GO BUY A
STEAK AT THE SUPERMARKET.
HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THE ANIMAL
HAS BEEN WELL TREATED TO BEGIN WITH?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Sylvain says OH, GOODNESS.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
TRACEABILITY.
TRACING AND TRACKING PRACTICES,
INGREDIENTS, WE ARE SO FAR
BEHIND.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER CONCERN OF
MINE.
TO ACTUALLY PROVIDE ALL THE
EVIDENCE THE CONSUMER NEEDS AT
RETAIL THAT GOES ON ON FARMS IS
GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.
OF COURSE MORE AND MORE FARMERS
ARE TRYING TO MAKE THE SUPPLY
CHAIN TRANSPARENT AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE.
YOU'RE HEARING ABATTOIRS PUTTING
CAMERAS IN THEIR FACILITIES TO
MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE IN
REAL TIME WHAT GOES ON IN THE
ABATTOIR.
I'M NOT SURE I WOULD LOOK AT
THAT ALL DAY LONG, TO BE HONEST,
BECAUSE IT'S NOT PRETTY.
BUT STILL, I WOULD SAY OVERALL
I'M NOT SURE WE'RE RECOGNIZING
THE [INDISCERNIBLE] OF THE
MARKET.
PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR DIFFERENT
THINGS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS,
BUT WE'RE NOT PROVIDING THEM
WITH PROPER INFORMATION.

Steve says DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR
NOT WE HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF
SECURITY AS IT COMES TO EGGS OR
MILK IN TERMS OF THE TREATMENT
OF ANIMALS?

Sylvain says HMM, SO THESE ARE SUPPLY
MANAGED COMMODITIES, AND SUPPLY
MANAGED COMMODITIES HAVE TO
FOLLOW STRICT PROTOCOLS.
I DO BELIEVE THAT FROM AN ANIMAL
WELFARE PERSPECTIVE FARMERS DO A
VERY GOOD JOB.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT,
THEY MAKE A LIVING TAKING CARE
OF THEIR LIVESTOCK.
SO I HONESTLY TRUST FARMERS AS
MUCH AS I CAN.
BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK FOR
EVIDENCE, SO WHAT KIND OF
EVIDENCE CAN WE PROVIDE TO THEM?
SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ASKING FOR
CAGE-FREE EGGS AND THINGS LIKE
THAT.
THAT'S... YOU'RE FORCING THE
SUPPLY CHAIN TO COMPLY TO A
DIFFERENT SET OF RULES THAT ARE
NOT EXISTENT RIGHT NOW.
SO CAGE-FREE EGGS, WITHIN 2025,
WE SHOULD HAVE MOST OF OUR EGGS
BEING LAID BY HENS THAT ARE CAGE
FREE.

Steve says ON THE OTHER HAND,
I'VE TALKED TO FARMERS WHO SAY
CAGE-FREE EGGS IS A TERRIBLE
IDEA BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T PUT
HENS IN CAGES, THEY'RE GOING TO
PLUCK EACH OTHER'S EYES OUT.

Sylvain says SO THERE NEEDS TO BE A
DESIGN, A PROPER DESIGN TO NOT
ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.
THERE'S STALKING AS WELL.
IN EUROPE, THEY HAVE THAT POLICY
IN PLACE, AND WHEN COMES EASTER,
GOOD LUCK BY GOOD THURSDAY,
THERE'S NO EGGS.
SO PRODUCTIVITY IS DOWN, AND
THEY ARE MORE EXPENSIVE TOO.
SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT FOOD
SECURITY, YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE
CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR AS A
CONSUMER.

Steve says OKAY, YOU KNOW THIS
QUESTION'S COMING.
WE GOT A MINUTE LEFT HERE.
HOW MUCH MEAT DO YOU EAT?

Sylvain says I DON'T REALLY... I EAT MEAT.
I LOVE MEAT.
I'M IN CHARGE OF THE MIGHTY
BARBECUE AT HOME.

Steve says SO HAMBURGER YES?

Sylvain says YES.

Steve says STEAKS?
CHICKEN?
PORK?
EVERYTHING?

Sylvain says BUT HERE'S MY REALITY AT
HOME, THOUGH, IF YOU WANT TO GO
THERE.
I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN AND THEY
OFTEN COME HOME WITH DIFFERENT
MESSAGES.
I OFTEN... ONE TIME I WAS AT A
RESTAURANT IN A STEAKHOUSE,
ORDERED A STEAK.
GOOD STEAK.
MY YOUNGEST DAUGHTER ASKED ME:
IS THAT GOOD FOR THE EARTH, DAD,
EATING A STEAK?
WOW, THAT'S A PROFOUND MESSAGE.

Steve says HOW OLD WAS SHE WHEN
SHE ASKED THAT?

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Sylvain says EIGHT YEARS OLD.
IT CAME FROM SOMEWHERE.
PROBABLY THE SCHOOL.

Steve says YEAH.
THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

Sylvain says YEAH.

Steve says IF YOU WANT TO CUT
BACK ON YOUR MEAT INTAKE, WHAT'S
THE BEST ALTERNATIVE?

Sylvain says THE BEST ALTERNATIVE?

Steve says MM-HM.

Sylvain says I WOULD SAY YOU CAN ACTUALLY
LOOK FOR LENTILS.
PULSES ARE BIG.
WE GROW A LOT OF THEM.
WE EXPORT 95 percent OF OUR PULSES
OVERSEAS.

Steve says WHERE ARE THEY GROWN?

The caption changes to "How to do it."

Sylvain says SASKATCHEWAN, OF COURSE.
RIGHT IN THE PRAIRIES.
WE EXPORT... SO THERE'S LOTS OF
OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO BUY
CANADIAN, EAT CANADIAN WITH
PULSES.
FISH AND SEAFOOD, BIG
OPPORTUNITIES THERE.
50 percent OF THE PLANET, THE NUMBER
ONE SOURCE OF PROTEIN IS FISH.
WE COULD DO THE SAME.

The caption changes to "Producer: Cara stern, @carastern."

Steve says GOOD ADVICE, FROM
SYLVAIN CHARLEBOIS FROM
DALHOUSIE UNIVERSITY.
AS ALWAYS, THANKS FOR COMING IN
TO TVO TONIGHT.

Sylvain says THANK YOU.

Watch: Cutting Back on Meat