Transcript: A Private Sector Fix for Affordable Housing? | Dec 11, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "A private sector fix for affordable housing? @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says THE SPECIFIC
CHALLENGES ARE DIFFERENT IN
DIFFERENT PARTS OF ONTARIO, AND
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT HOUSING
AFFORDABILITY IS A TOUGH NUT TO
CRACK WHEREVER YOU GO.
THAT MAKES THE TIME RIPE FOR
SOME NEW IDEAS, WHICH IS WHY
VETERAN HOUSING DEVELOPER CARY
GREEN JOINS US TONIGHT TO
EXPLAIN WHY HE THINKS
DEVELOPMENT BONDS COULD BE PART
OF THE SOLUTION FOR HOUSING, AND
MORE.
JUST FILL DISCLOSURE HERE,
THERE IS NO CORPORATE
CONNECTION, BUT IN THE INTEREST
OF TRANSPARENCY, YOU ARE RELATED
TO BARRY GREEN, WHO IS THE MAIN
DONOR FOR TVO'S ONTARIO HUBS.
AND WITH THAT WE WELCOME, CARY
GREEN, CHAIRMAN OF GREENWIN INC,
A PRIVATE REAL ESTATE MANAGEMENT
FIRM AND DEVELOPER, TO TVO TONIGHT.

Cary is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with receding gray hair. He's wearing a black suit and a white shirt.

Steve continues GOOD TO HAVE YOU IN THAT CHAIR.

Cary says STEVE, IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE,
THANK YOU.

Steve says COULD WE JUST START
WITH THIS: HOW MANY CANADIANS DO
YOU THINK ARE CURRENTLY IN NEED
OF WHAT WE CALL AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

The caption changes to "Cary Green. Greenwin."
Then, it changes again to "Reaching a crisis point."

Cary says DEPENDING ON PAPERS AND
STUDIES READ, THE NUMBER RANGES
BETWEEN 3 AND 4 MILLION
CANADIANS IN NEED OF AFFORDABLE
HOUSING.

Steve says WHERE DO MOST OF THEM LIVE?

Cary says IT'S ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
IT'S HUGE PROBLEM IN MAJOR
CITIES, BUT YOU'VE GOT PROBLEMS
IN CITIES THE SIZE OF THUNDER
BAY, MONCTON, NEW BRUNSWICK...
BARRIE, ONTARIO.
SO IT'S ENDEMIC.
IT CUTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
IT CUTS ACROSS EVERY LINE OF
EVERY GROUP THAT THERE IS.

Steve says AND WHO EXACTLY NEEDS
IT?
WHO ARE THE FOLKS WHO ARE
WAITING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

Cary says GREAT QUESTION, AND I'LL TELL YOU.
IT'S PEOPLE... THE OBVIOUS ONES
ARE THE HOMELESS, AND THAT'S THE
ONE THAT'S ON YOUR DOORSTEP, AND
THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE SEE, BUT
THAT'S THE SMALLEST PERCENTAGE.
YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE
LIVING IN OVERCROWDED HOUSING.
YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE LIVING IN
SUBSTANDARD HOUSING.
YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE, STUDENTS,
FIRST-TIME... PEOPLE IN THEIR
FIRST JOBS, PEOPLE MOVING OUT OF
HOUSES, PEOPLE COMING OUT OF
DIVORCED HOMES AND HOUSES ARE
SPLITTING.
BIG ONE FOR ME IS RETURNING WAR
VETS.
IT'S TERRIBLE THE CONDITION OF
THE SITUATION THAT WAR VETS FIND
THEMSELVES IN.
AND THESE ARE YOUNG, HEALTHY
PEOPLE AND NO PLACE TO GO.
YOU'VE GOT NEW IMMIGRANTS TO
CANADA.
YOU'VE GOT TORONTO ALONE... I'LL
TELL YOU, TORONTO'S GOT 94,
95,000 FAMILIES WAITING.
THAT'S IN THE 416 FOR AFFORDABLE
HOUSING.

Steve says 94,000 FAMILIES, SO
MULTIPLY NUMBER BY 3 OR 4.

Cary says IT'S HUGE.
AND THEN WE HAVE AREAS I'M VERY
SENSITIVE TO, NURSES.
ALL THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE TORONTO
GREAT, ALL THE SUPPORT STAFF OF
PEOPLE WORKING HERE NEED
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
YOU DON'T NEED TO BE DRIVING TWO
HOURS AWAY TO COME IN AND WORK
AT A THEATRE OR A RESTAURANT OR
A HOSPITAL, WHICH IS THE WORST.
SPORTS CENTRES.
ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
PEOPLE WORKING IN THIS STUDIO.

Steve says I THINK WE'VE
ESTABLISHED THE FACT THERE IS A
BIG NEED AND IT GOES BEYOND THE
DEMOGRAPHIC OF WHAT PEOPLE
TYPICALLY THINK OF.
THE REASON WE WANTED TO HAVE YOU
IN HERE TODAY IS BECAUSE YOU
TALK ABOUT SOMETHING CALLED THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING BOND AS A
POTENTIAL SOLUTION TO THIS.

Cary says RIGHT.

Steve says DESCRIBE WHAT THAT IS.

Cary says OKAY.
CAN I GIVE YOU A LITTLE
BACKGROUND?

Steve says SHOOT.

The caption changes to "The golden ticket response?"

Cary says SO FIRST OF ALL OUR COMPANY,
GREENWIN, WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN
VARIOUS TYPES OF AFFORDABLE
HOUSING BUILDING DEVELOPMENT FOR
CLOSE TO 60 YEARS.
AND THE BOND WAS AN EVOLUTION OR
RESULT OF WHEN WE SAW THE
PROBLEM IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING
WAS THERE WAS REALLY NO CAPITAL
AVAILABLE.
YOU HAD PROGRAMS AND TORONTO WAS
GOING TO BUILD 10,000 UNITS AND
THEY BUILT A THOUSAND UNITS.
AND ON AND ON ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
THE REASON WAS VERY SIMPLE.
THERE WAS NO MONEY FOR IT
BECAUSE IT'S VERY, VERY
EXPENSIVE.
UNDER THE IAH, INVESTMENT IN
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH WAS
ONE WAY THE FEDS WERE DOING THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, THEY WERE GIVEN... IT
WAS COSTING THE TAXPAYER
150,000 dollars A UNIT.
OKAY?
THERE'S NOT THAT MANY 150,000 dollar
CHUNKS TO GO AROUND, ESPECIALLY
WHEN YOU'VE GOT A DEMAND THAT
WE'VE GOT.
SO WE WENT BACK IN TIME.
CMHC, WHEN IT USED TO BE CALLED
CANADA MORTGAGE AND HOUSING...
OR SORRY, WHEN IT WAS CALLED
CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING,
BEFORE CANADA MORTGAGE AND
HOUSING, USED TO DO LIMITED
DIVIDEND BONDS, AND IN FACT MOST
OF THE APARTMENTS THAT WERE
BUILT IN CANADA POSTWAR, SAY
FROM THE '50S TO THE EARLY '70S,
BEFORE BUILT USING THESE LIMITED
BONDS.
IT WAS A GREAT SYSTEM.
WE MODIFIED THAT.
THE GOVERNMENT GOES OUT, GOES TO
MARKET AND RAISES BOND, WHICH
THEY DO ALL DAY LONG.
THE FEDS DO 40, 50 BILLION A
YEAR.
I'M NOT SURE IF THE PROVINCE
DOES OR IF THE CITY EVEN HAS THE
ABILITY TO DO THAT.
THEY RAISE THE BONDS.
LET'S TAKE A 35-YEAR BOND.
THE GOVERNMENT WILL PAY THE
INTEREST ONLY FOR THE FIRST 20
YEARS OF THAT BOND, AND THE
HOUSING PRODUCER OR DEVELOPER
PAYS 100 percent OF THE PRINCIPAL BACK,
THE CAPITAL BACK, AND THEY PAY
THE PRINCIPAL AND THE INTEREST
FOR THE BACK-15 YEARS.
SO THE BOND HOLDERS ARE HELD...
ARE WHOLE.
WHERE ARE ALTERNATIVES FOR
HOUSING RIGHT NOW, RIGHT?
AND WHAT DOES IT COST THE
TAXPAYER?

Steve says HOLD THAT THOUGHT.
I GOT THIS INFORMATION RIGHT
HERE.
IT'S BETTER IF WE PUT IT UP ON
THE SCREEN.
THAT WAY EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT
TOGETHER.

Cary says GO RIGHT AHEAD.

Steve says IT COSTS 3000 dollars A NIGHT FOR A HOSPITAL BED.
IF YOU'RE IN PRISON, IT COSTS
350 dollars A PRISON A NIGHT.

Cary says UP TO 2,000.

Steve says OKAY.
IF YOU'RE IN A SHELTER BED
BECAUSE YOU'RE HOMELESS, THAT'S
200 bucks A NIGHT, AND YOU SAY, CARY,
THAT IF WE GO FOR THIS
AFFORDABLE HOUSING BOND, A
RENTAL APARTMENT WOULD BE 14 dollars...

Cary says UNDER 14 dollars A NIGHT PER UNIT.

Steve says HOW DOES THE MATH ON
THAT WORK OUT?

The caption changes to "Cary Green, @GreenwinTALKS."

Cary says IT'S EASY.
IF YOU TAKE A TYPICAL UNIT WHICH
IS GOING TO COST ABOUT 350,000 dollars
TO BUILD RIGHT NOW, THAT'S WHAT
IT COST TO BUILD AN APARTMENT IN
TORONTO.
TORONTO'S OUT OF CONTROL FROM A
COST POINT OF VIEW.
THE COST OF THE BOND IS ABOUT...
THE INTEREST ON THE BOND WORKS
OUT TO ABOUT 5500 dollars A YEAR,
ROUNDED NUMBERS.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Cary continues WORKS OUT TO ABOUT... AND
WORKING BACKWARDS, DIVIDED BY
365, COMES ON JUST ABOUT 328 A
NIGHT, AND THAT'S THE INTEREST
THAT'S REQUIRED ON THE BONDS, A
3.5 percent BOND FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO
SUPPORT THE CONSTRUCTION OF
THESE... OF A NEW HOME.

Steve says OKAY, LET'S NOW,
SHELDON, DO BOARD ONE RIGHT NOW,
AND THIS IS... HERE'S THE BIG
PICTURE RIGHT NOW.
HERE'S THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING
BOND PROPOSAL.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "An affordable housing bond proposal."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
CARY SAYS THAT 5,000 AFFORDABLE
HOUSING UNITS COULD BE BUILT IN
AS QUICKLY AS TWO TO THREE
YEARS.
IT WOULD REQUIRE, AS HE
INDICATED EARLIER, 500 MILLION
DOLLARS OF PUBLIC FUNDING
PAYABLE OVER TWO DECADES.
HE SAYS IT WOULD COST CANADIAN
CITIZENS ABOUT 96,000 dollars OVER THE
20 YEARS, THAT'S 4800 A CITIZEN.
AND AGAIN YOUR MATH SAYS THIS
WOULD SAVE CITIZENS 100 BILLION dollars OVER 20 YEARS.

Cary says SURE.

Steve says 100 BILLION IN SAVINGS
OVER 20 YEARS?

Cary says I'LL EXPLAIN IT.
IT'S VERY SIMPLE.

Steve says TELL US HOW WE GET
THERE.

The caption changes to "Easing the strain on healthcare."

Cary says WHERE IT'S BASED ON, AND IT'S
UNIQUE TO ONTARIO AND A BIG
PROBLEM IN ONTARIO.
ONE OF THE TWO THINGS, AND THIS
IS AN OVERLAP OF PROBLEMS,
YOU'VE GOT AFFORDABLE HOUSING
AND YOU'VE GOT HALLWAY HEALTH CARE.
THE COST OF HAVING 5,000 PEOPLE,
THIS IS IN ONTARIO HOSPITALS A
NIGHT, ALCS, THAT'S THE ACRONYM
HOSPITALS COME UP, ALTERNATIVE
LEVEL OF CARE.
THAT'S 5,000 PEOPLE IN HOSPITALS
WHO DON'T NEED MEDICAL CARE.
THEY ARE THERE AS A FORM OF
HOUSING, OKAY?
THAT COST AT THE MINIMUM, THE
LOWEST END NUMBER, 3,000 dollars A
NIGHT.
THAT'S 15 MILLION dollars A NIGHT
THAT'S JUST OVER 5 BILLION dollars A
YEAR.
OKAY?
THESE ARE THE NUMBERS THAT WE'RE
DEALING WITH.
AND A LOT OF THAT, AND WE'LL
COME BACK TO IT, COMES OUT OF
FEDERAL TRANSFER PAYMENTS.
SO HAVING 5,000 BEDS TAKEN IN
ONTARIO'S HOSPITAL SYSTEM, WHICH
IS ABOUT 14 OR 15 percent OF THE BEDS,
IS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO THE
HALLWAY HEALTH CARE SITUATION.

Steve says GOTCHA.

Cary says IF YOU TAKE 500 MILLION dollars
ONCE, SPREAD THAT OVER 20 YEARS,
OKAY, AND LET'S... AND YOU
ALLOCATED IT, 100 percent OF THAT TO
GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THE
HOSPITALS AND PUTTING THEM INTO
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THAT WILL
NOW ELIMINATE...

Steve says FREES UP ALL THOSE
BEDS.

Cary says IT FREES UP 5 BILLION dollars IN OUR
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ON AN ANNUAL
BASIS, AND YOU TAKE THAT 5
BILLION OVER 20 YEARS AND THAT'S
$100 BILLION OF SAVINGS.
LET'S SAY I'M OFF BY 10 percent, I'M
OFF BY 20 percent, IT'S MASSIVE
NUMBERS, AND IT'S LOW-HANGING
FRUIT.

Steve says IF THE MATH ON THIS IS
SO BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS, HOW COME
WE'RE NOT DOING IT?

Cary says IT'S A MATTER OF INFORMATION
AND EDUCATION.
SHOWS LIKE THIS ARE VERY
IMPORTANT TO GET IT OUT.
HOUSING SYMPOSIUMS WHERE I SPEAK
AT GET IT OUT.
THE CITY OF TORONTO AFFORDABLE
HOUSING OFFICE ADOPTED THIS IN
PRINCIPLE SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
WE'VE GOT MAJOR UNIONS BEHIND
IT.
WE'VE GOT MAJOR... PRETTY MUCH
EVERYBODY WHO'S HEARD ABOUT IT
AND UNDERSTANDS IT WANTS TO...
WANTS TO SUPPORT IT.
BUT IT'S A GOVERNMENT DECISION,
AND IN FAIRNESS, IT'S REALLY A
FEDERAL DECISION BECAUSE THEY
ARE THE LARGEST PLAYERS IN THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING INDUSTRY.

Steve says IN WHICH CASE HAVE YOU
TALKED TO ADAM VAUGHAN ABOUT THIS?

Cary says I'VE TALKED TO ADAM VAUGHAN
ABOUT IT.

Steve says WHAT DID HE SAY?

The caption changes to "Coming to the table."

Cary says ADAM WAS VERY POSITIVELY
DISPOSED TOWARDS IT, BUT IT HAS
TO GO UP TO MORNEAU AND A FEW
OTHER PEOPLE.
HE'S NOT THE DECISION MAKER.
HERE'S MY LOGIC.
THEY HAVE ALLOCATED 40 BILLION dollars
OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS AS PART
OF THE NATIONAL HOUSING
STRATEGY.

Steve says MM-HM.

Cary says AND IF YOU... AND PART OF
THAT STRATEGY, BECAUSE IT'S NOT
ALL ABOUT BUILDING AFFORDABLE
HOUSING, BUT PART OF IT THEY
WANT TO BUILD 100,000 HOMES OVER
THAT 10-YEAR PERIOD.
AT 500 MILLION dollars FOR FIVE, IT'S
ACTUALLY UNDER 9 BILLION, UNDER
20 percent OF THAT AMOUNT THAT'S
ALLOCATED COULD SOLVE THE
PROBLEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
AND IF THE FEDS STEP UP, IT'S
FANTASTIC.
THEY'VE ALREADY ALLOCATED THE
MONEY. THEY'VE ALLOCATED 40
BILLION, WE WANT TO TAKE A 20TH
OR AN 80TH, RATHER, 500 MILLION dollars
OF THAT, DO A PILOT PROJECT.
WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE
IS ALLOCATE A GOOD CHUNK OF THAT
IN ONTARIO, IN TORONTO, AND YOU
KNOW, LET'S START GETTING RID OF
THAT HALLWAY HEALTH CARE,
BECAUSE IT'S A HORRIBLE
EXPERIENCE IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN
IT.

Steve says INDEED.
AND YOU KNOW, I GET WHERE YOU'RE
COMING FROM HERE.
THERE ARE GONNA BE PEOPLE WHO
ARE GONNA LOOK AT THIS AND SAY
THIS IS PRIVATE INDUSTRY AND
PRIVATE INVESTORS PROFITING OFF
OF THE DELIVERY OF WHAT
TRADITIONALLY WE THINK OF AS
SOCIAL SERVICES.
IS THAT ACCURATE?

Cary says IT'S NOT AT ALL.
I MEAN, WHO DO YOU THINK... WHO
PRODUCES ALL THE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING, THE SOCIAL HOUSING?
IT'S PRODUCED BY...

Steve says YOU GUYS BUILD IT, RIGHT?

Cary says IT'S PRODUCED BY THE PRIVATE
SECTOR.
IT'S DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.
IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN
INFRASTRUCTURE.
IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED
INFRASTRUCTURE.
IT'S SUCH A MAJOR NEED IN THE
COUNTRY.
AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS THE
MOST ORGANIZED TO DO IT.
WHAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS, AND IF
THE GOVERNMENT'S OBJECTIVE IS TO
SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, THE
GOVERNMENT'S GOT THE THUMBPRINT
THAT GOES ON THE BOND AND
ACTUALLY ONE OF THE HEAD BOND
TRADERS FROM CIBC WORLD BANKS,
HE SAID THIS WILL GO OUT AT A
LOWER RATE THAN OUR NATIONAL...
THAN A CANADA BOND BECAUSE IT'S
GOING TO BE BACKED BY
MULTI-RESIDENTIAL AFFORDABLE
RENTAL UNITS IN CANADA'S MAJOR
CITIES, WHICH BY DEFINITION ARE
100 percent OCCUPIED ALL THE TIME.
THEY ARE FULL.
THE DEMAND IS SO GREAT.
YOU CAN'T HAVE VACANCY UNLESS
SOMETHING REALLY GOES AWRY.

Steve says SO IF THERE IS AN
AFFORDABLE HOUSING BOND, WHAT
DOES IT PAY BACK?

Cary says ONCE... THE BOND IS PAID BACK BY THE HOUSING PRODUCER, BY THE
DEVELOPMENT, BY WHATEVER GROUP
IS PRODUCING THE HOUSES.
THEY ARE PAYING THE PRINCIPAL
BACK AND THE INTEREST FOR THE
BACK 15 YEARS.

Steve says AND THE INTEREST AS
WELL.
WHAT WOULD YOU MAKE ON THIS?
WHAT KIND OF PROFIT CAN YOU MAKE
ON THIS IF YOU'RE DOING IT?

Cary says WE ARE BUILDING RENTAL
AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNITS.
RETURNS, THEY'LL GROW OVER TIME,
BUT WHEN YOU START, LET'S PUT IT
LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE TO BE A
COMPLETE MASOCHIST TO BE IN THIS
BUSINESS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO
RETURNS FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
YOU'RE DOING IT BECAUSE YOU
BELIEVE IN IT.
YOU'RE DOING IT BECAUSE YOU'VE
GOT A COMMITMENT TO AFFORDABLE
HOUSING AND YOU'VE GOT TO
UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT
TO CANADA.
AND THIS IS MY CONTENTION I TRY
TO GET POLITICIANS IN PARTICULAR
TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
WE'VE GOT BETWEEN 10 AND 14 percent OF
THE POPULATION IS NOT PROPERLY
HOUSED.
OKAY?
IN A COUNTRY WHOSE... YOU KNOW,
THE UNDERLYING VALUE OF THE
CANADIAN DOLLAR, OF THE CANADIAN
ECONOMY, IT'S NOT NATURAL
RESOURCES, NOT OUR WEATHER.
IT'S SOCIAL STABILITY.
THE REASON PEOPLE COME AND
INVEST IN CANADA IS BECAUSE OF
OUR SOCIAL STABILITY, AND IT'S
BEEN THAT WAY FOR HUNDREDS PLUS
YEARS.
WHEN YOU'VE GOT 14 percent OF YOUR
POPULATION NOT HOUSED, YOU START
TO SEE CRACKS IN THAT SOCIAL
COHESION, INVEST VENEER,
HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IT IF
THAT BECOMES WIDESPREAD, IF YOU
THINK THE DOLLAR IS TANKING NOW,
IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY SERIOUS
ISSUE.
THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR
THE WHOLE COUNTRY.

Steve says YOU SAID YOU HAVE
UNIONS, BUSINESS, MEMBERS OF
GOVERNMENT ON SIDE WITH THIS.
THERE IS AN ECONOMIST, WE'VE HAD
HIM IN THIS STUDIO BEFORE, DAVID
McDONALD FROM THE CANADIAN
CENTRE FROM POLICY ALTERNATIVES
WHO CALLS THESE BONDS SIMILAR
TO, QUOTE, A DRAGON'S DEN
APPROACH TO SOCIAL SERVICES.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT
CHARACTERIZATION?

Cary says I DON'T KNOW HIM, WHERE HE'S
COMING FROM.
I THINK IT'S A SILLY
CHARACTERIZATION.
I THINK IT'S MEANINGLESS.

Steve says WHY DO YOU THINK THIS
WILL WORK?
HAS IT WORKED ANYWHERE ELSE?

Cary says BONDS AND DEVELOPMENT BONDS
HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS AND
YEARS AND YEARS.

Steve says HAS IT BEEN TRIED
ANYWHERE ELSE?

Cary says YES, VERY SIMILAR BONDS HAVE
BEEN USED THROUGHOUT THE UNITED
STATES IN PARTICULAR.
CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK STATE,
FLORIDA.
THEY'VE USED THEM.
DEVELOPMENT BONDS HAVE BEEN
USED, AND IN FAIRNESS, ONTARIO
USED THEM.
CANADA USED THEM FOR THE LONGEST
PERIOD OF TIME.
CANADA USED A LIMITED DIVIDEND
BOND WHICH IS A VERY SIMILAR
CONCEPT.

Steve says HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE
PREMIER ABOUT IT?

Cary says I WILL BE SPEAKING TO THE
PREMIER I BELIEVE IN THE NEXT
LITTLE WHILE.
AND HOPEFULLY HE'S RECEPTIVE TO
IT.
I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA, AND
IT'S A GREAT MIX OF THE PRIVATE
SECTOR AND THE GOVERNMENT.
SO HOPEFULLY IT'S A FIT FOR HIM.

Steve says SO WHAT EXACTLY... BE
SPECIFIC HERE.
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU NEED TO HEAR
FROM GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN?

Cary says IT'S SO EASY, AND I'VE WORKED WITH PEOPLE AT CMHC.
THEY NEED THE FEDS TO ADOPT THE
POLICY AND SAY, OKAY, LET'S TAKE
500 MILLION, IF THAT'S THE
NUMBER.
I LIKE THE NUMBER BECAUSE IT
WORKS, AS I SAY, WITH THE
HALLWAY HEALTH CARE.
AND PUT IT OUT THERE.
LET'S GET THESE BONDS OUT THERE.
THEY CAN BE ISSUED TOMORROW.
THE GOVERNMENT ISSUES BONDS ALL
THE TIME.
ALL WE WANT TO SAY IS, OKAY,
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT 500
MILLION AND PUT IT OUT IN THIS
MANNER.
OUR MUNICIPAL HOUSING OFFICES
ARE IN PLACE.
OUR PROVINCIAL HOUSING IS THERE.
THE FEDS IS THERE.
EVERY MUNICIPALITY, EVERY REGION
HAS THEIR AFFORDABLE HOUSING
GROUPS, AND THEN MOVE FORWARD
AND LET THE PRIVATE SECTOR TAKE
OVER, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO COME UP
WITH THE LAND.
WE HAVE TO RE-ZONE IT.
WE HAVE TO DEVELOP IT.
WE HAVE TO BUILD IT.
WE HAVE TO MANAGE IT.
WE HAVE TO DESIGN IT, AND THAT
TAKES TIME.
THE REASON IT SAYS IT'S GOING TO
TAKE TWO TO THREE YEARS IS
THAT'S THE PROCESS.
THE PROCESS IS A VERY
CHALLENGING ONE.

Steve says AND IS THIS FOR
PURPOSE-BUILT RENTAL UNITS?

Cary says THIS APPLIES... THE CHALLENGE
APPLIES TO PURPOSE-BUILT RENTAL
UNITS, EQUALLY TO AFFORDABLE
HOUSING.
THERE IS SO FAR BEEN NO HUGE
BENEFIT WHEN YOU GO IN TO
DEVELOP AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO QUICKER, BUT
IT DOESN'T YET.

Steve says I PRESUME YOU LIKE...
WELL, NOT TOO LONG AGO IN THE
ECONOMIC STATEMENT BY THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO TO TAKE RENT
CONTROLS OFF THE CONSTRUCTION OF
ALL FUTURE RENTAL UNITS.

Cary says I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD
IDEA.

Steve says IS IT GOING TO KICK
START ANY BUILDING?

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Cary says I BELIEVE IT WILL BECAUSE WE
SAW THE CONVERSE, WHEN THE...
WHEN THE LIBERALS PUT THE
CONTROLS ON, SEVERAL THOUSAND
UNITS THAT WERE SLATED TO BECOME
RENTAL UNITS, MARKET RENTAL
UNITS, WERE STOPPED.
AND YOU NEED SUPPLY.
LIKE, IT'S SUCH A SIMPLE
EQUATION.
THE MORE UNITS YOU HAVE OUT
THERE, THE BETTER THE
OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO COME
IN.
IF THEY ARE NEWER, MORE
EXPENSIVE, PEOPLE WILL HAVE THE
MEANS TO MOVE OUT OF THE LESS
EXPENSIVE ONES, OPEN THOSE UP.
THOSE ARE ALL UNDER RENT
CONTROL, SO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE
TO, YOU KNOW... YOU DON'T HAVE
THESE BIG ISSUES.

Steve says BUT YOU DO NEED FOR
THIS TO HAPPEN YOU NEED THAT
INITIAL 500 MILLION dollars FROM
VARIOUS LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT TO
GET GOING?

Cary says YEP.

Steve says CAN YOU GET THAT?

Cary says OH, I BELIEVE SO.
I REALLY BELIEVE SO BECAUSE THE
NUMBERS MAKE SENSE.
THE ARGUMENT IS COMPELLING, AND
IT ALLOWS ALL THREE LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT TO COME UP AND COME
UP WITH A SOLUTION AND SHARE IN
THAT SOLUTION.

Steve says OKAY.
THANKS FOR COMING IN AND TALKING
TO US ABOUT IT.

Cary says MY ABSOLUTE PLEASURE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Harrison Lowman, @harrisonlowman."

Steve says THAT'S CARY GREEN, THE
CHAIR OF GREENWIN INC., MAKING
HIS PITCH FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING
BONDS. THANKS CARY.

Cary says THANK YOU VERY MUCH, STEVE.

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