Transcript: Affordable Housing and the Toronto Election | Oct 18, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "Affordable housing and the Toronto election. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says IN THE BIGGEST CITY IN
THE COUNTRY, WITH ARGUABLY THE
MOST EXPENSIVE REAL ESTATE,
AFFORDABLE HOUSING WILL BE ONE
OF THE CORE CHALLENGES FOR THE
MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL
THAT'LL BE ELECTED ON MONDAY.
JOINING US NOW WITH SOME ADVICE
FOR THOSE WHO ELECT THEM AND
THOSE WHO GET ELECTED:
JAN DE SILVA, PRESIDENT AND CEO,
THE TORONTO REGION BOARD OF TRADE...

Jan is in her late fifties, with blond hair in a bob. She's wearing a gray jacket.

Steve continues TIM HUDAK, CEO, ONTARIO REAL
ESTATE ASSOCIATION...

Tim is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted purple tie.

Steve continues ALFREDO ROMANO, PRESIDENT OF THE
TORONTO REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER
CASTLEPOINT NUMA;

Alfredo is in his late fifties, with long white hair in a ponytail and a full beard. He's wearing glasses, a blue suit and a pink shirt.

Steve continues AND MWARIGHA, HE IS VICE PRESIDENT OF HOUSING,
HOMELESSNESS AND DEVELOPMENT AT
WOODGREEN COMMUNITY SERVICES.

Mwarigha is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short-cropped black hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, blue shirt, and green tie.

Steve continues IT'S GREAT TO HAVE ALL OF YOU
AROUND OUR TABLE TONIGHT FOR
THIS DISCUSSION, AND TO SET IT
UP, MR. DIRECTOR, IF YOU WOULD?
LET'S PUT SOME OF THESE STATS UP
HERE.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Affordable housing in Ontario's capital."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
HALF OF GREATER TORONTO AND
HAMILTON AREA HOUSEHOLDS SPEND
50 percent OR MORE OF THEIR DISPOSABLE
INCOME ON SHELTER COSTS.
50 percent PLUS.
FROM THE YEARS 2014 TO '17,
AROUND 40,000 NEW RENTAL UNITS
WERE BUILT IN TORONTO, BUT ONLY
ONE IN 40 WAS CONSIDERED
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
THE CITY CURRENTLY DEFINES
AFFORDABLE AT AT OR BELOW THE
AVERAGE MARKET RENT.
OVER THAT SAME PERIOD OF TIME,
JUST ONE IN 400 NEW OWNERSHIP
UNITS IN THE CITY WERE
CONSIDERED AFFORDABLE.
AGAIN, THE CITY DEFINES
AFFORDABLE HOUSING COSTS WHEN
THE TOTAL MONTHLY SHELTER COSTS
EQUALS THE AVERAGE TORONTO RENT.
LET'S DO A COUPLE MORE.
FROM 2005 TO 2015, ONE-BEDROOM
APARTMENT RENT PRICES INCREASED
BY 20 percent, WHILE MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD
INCOME INCREASED BY JUST 5 percent.
AND THIS MONTH, PAD NAPPER,
THAT'S AN APARTMENT RENTAL
SEARCH ENGINE, LISTS THE MEDIAN
ASKING RENTAL PRICE... CHECK
THIS OUT... FOR A ONE-BEDROOM
APARTMENT, 2,230 dollars A MONTH.
THAT IS OF COURSE THE MOST
EXPENSIVE IN THE COUNTRY.
JAN, TO YOU FIRST.
I KNOW THE WORD CRISIS GETS
THROWN AROUND A LOT, BUT DO YOU
THINK WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF A
HOUSING CRISIS?

The caption changes to "Jan De Silva. Toronto Region Board of Trade."
Then, it changes again to "The state of things."

Jan says WE ARE IN THE
MIDST OF A HOUSING CRISIS.
IT'S NOT JUST HOUSING PER SE,
IT'S EVERY SECTOR OF THE HOUSING
COMMUNITY.
IT'S ATTAINABLE HOUSING, IT'S
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND THE GAPS
IN EACH CATEGORY IS HAVING HUGE
RIPPLE-DOWNSTREAM EFFECT FOR
EVERYONE TRYING TO GET INTO THE
HOUSING MARKET AND ACCESS
SHELTER.

Steve says TIM, WHICH
PARTICULAR DEMOGRAPHIC DO YOU
THINK NEEDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING
THE MOST?

The caption changes to "Tim Hudak. Ontario Real Estate Association."

Tim says MILLENNIALS,
I'LL SAY, IF I WANT TO NAIL ONE DOWN.
JAN IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
IF A FAMILY CAN'T GET A MOVE-UP
HOME AND THE KIDS COME ALONG,
THAT MEANS SOMEONE IN AN
APARTMENT CAN'T GET A STARTER HOME.
THEY STAY IN THE APARTMENT
LONGER SO YOU DON'T GET OUT OF
AFFORDABLE OR NOT-FOR-PROFIT
HOUSING.
I THINK WHERE THE MOST SYMPATHY
IS, STEVE, IS WITH MILLENNIALS.
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE
HISTORY OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY,
HOME OWNERSHIP RATE IS ACTUALLY
IN THE DECLINE IN ONTARIO AND IN
CANADA.
NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.
AND THIS IS A TIME WHEN WE HAVE
LOW MORTGAGE RATES AND A
SUSTAINED ECONOMY.
WE'RE IN A CRISIS.

Steve says BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET IN.

Tim says THEY CAN'T GET IN.
YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD A DOWNTURN,
IF THERE WAS A MAJOR RECESSION,
OKAY, YOU COULD GET THAT.
WE'RE HAVING A SUSTAINABLE
EXPANSION ECONOMY, WE HAVE LOW
MORTGAGE RATES, STILL LOWEST
HISTORIC RATES AND THEY CAN'T
FIND A PLACE TO CALL HOME.

Steve says MWARIGHA, HOW IS IT
AFFECTING IN PARTICULAR
TORONTO'S LOW INCOME PEOPLE.

The caption changes to "Mwarigha. Woodgreen Community Services."

Mwarigha says THE BIGGEST
CHANGE WE HAVE SEEN IN TERMS OF
LOW INCOME PEOPLE, PEOPLE LIVING
IN ROOMING HOUSES.
SO AS THE HOUSING PRICES
CONTINUE TO ESCALATE, AS SOME OF
THE NEIGHBOURHOODS THAT
TRADITIONALLY HOUSED PEOPLE
LIVING IN ROOMING HOUSES COME
UNDER SERIOUS PRESSURE TO
CONVERT TO PRIVATE HOMES, A LOT
OF THESE PEOPLE ARE SLIDING INTO
HOMELESSNESS, AND IT'S A VERY
SERIOUS PROBLEM.
WE ALSO HAVE AN INCREASING
NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE
INCOME ZONE THAT WOULD NORMALLY
BE HOUSED IN THE PURPOSE-BUILT
RENTALS.
THEY ARE NOW IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY
OF SLIDING INTO HOMELESSNESS.
MY BIGGEST STORY LATELY THAT
REALLY MOVED ME WAS THE RECENT
FIRE AT 650 PARLIAMENT.

Steve says THIS IS IN DOWNTOWN TORONTO.

Mwarigha says IT'S IN DOWNTOWN TORONTO.
AGAIN, A TRAGEDY.
NEXT THING WE HAVE, YOU KNOW,
CLOSE TO 200 HOUSEHOLDS THROWN
OUT, AND THEY HAVE TO FIND
SOMEWHERE.
NOW, MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN COMING TO WOODGREEN TO TRY
TO GET HELP IN FINDING HOUSING.
WELL, THEY WERE PAYING SOUTH OF
1,000 dollars FOR A ONE-BEDROOM,
TWO-BEDROOM, BECAUSE THEY WERE
PART OF THE OLD PROTECTED STOCK
FROM THE 1991 EXEMPTION.
THEY ARE COMING OUT INTO A
MARKET THAT YOU HAVE JUST
POINTED OUT, AT 2,000 PLUS dollars
NORTH FOR ONE BEDROOM.

Steve says HOW DO THEY DO THAT?

Mwarigha says THEY DON'T HAVE A CHANCE.
WHAT DO WE DO?
WE END UP SPENDING PUBLIC MONEY
PUTTING THOSE PEOPLE IN HOTELS.
AND HOW LONG CAN WE DO THAT?

Steve says RIGHT.
ALFREDO, JUST BEFORE I ASK YOU
WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU,
WHAT DO YOU DO?

The caption changes to "Alfredo Romano. Castlepoint Numa."

Alfredo says PROPERTY DEVELOPER.
WE DEVELOP RESIDENTIAL,
COMMERCIAL, AND INDUSTRIAL
PROPERTIES.
WE'RE HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE
RESIDENTIAL SECTOR.
TO EVERYBODY'S POINT HERE, THE
INDUSTRY IS NOW THE SECOND
LARGEST INDUSTRY IN THE
PROVINCE, THE REAL ESTATE
INDUSTRY, AND IT'S A VERY
IMPORTANT PART OF THE ECONOMY,
NEEDLESS TO SAY.
WE HAVE TO BE PART OF THE
SOLUTION AND I AGREE WITH JAN
AND TIM AND THE PANEL.
WE'RE DEFINITELY IN A HOUSING
CRISIS, AND THE INDUSTRY HAS TO
BE PART OF THE SOLUTION ALONG
WITH GOVERNMENT.

Steve says HOW MUCH SUBSIDY DO
YOU REQUIRE FROM GOVERNMENT IN
ORDER TO BE ABLE TO BUILD
SOMETHING THAT IS CONSIDERED,
QUOTE, UNQUOTE, AFFORDABLE?

Alfredo says THE NUMBERS VARY, BUT AS A
RULE OF THUMB, YOU CAN HEAR AS
MUCH AS 100,000 dollars PER UNIT AND AS
HIGH AS... AS LOW AS 100,000 dollars
AND AS HIGH AS 140,000 dollars PER UNIT
TO ACTUALLY CREATE AN AFFORDABLE
HOUSING UNIT, UNDER THE
DEFINITION THAT YOU PROVIDED
EARLIER.

Steve says JAN, HELP US OUT
WITH THIS.
A FEW YEARS AGO, CURRENT MAYOR
OF TORONTO, SEEKING ELECTION, OF
COURSE, ANNOUNCED HIS SIGNATURE
HOUSING PLAN CALLED OPEN DOOR.
WHAT DID THAT CONSIST OF?

Jan says WELL, OPEN
DOOR WAS VERY MUCH ABOUT
CREATING INCENTIVES TO GET
AFFORDABLE HOUSING BUILT.
IT GUARANTEED FAST-TRACKING OF
ZONING APPROVALS.
IT ALSO GUARANTEED SOME
INCENTIVES IN TERMS OF REDUCED
FEES.
I THINK IT WAS... IT WAS
SUCCESSFUL AND IT'S GONE AN
IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD FOR US
BUT THE MAYOR WILL BE THE FIRST
TO ADMIT, THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT
HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPENING
AND THERE'S A LOT OF TIME THAT
HE'S BEEN SPENDING LOOKING AT
HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE SUPPLY
SIDE.
BECAUSE WHEN I TALK ABOUT A
CRISIS, IT'S NOT A DEMAND
CRISIS.
THE DEMAND IS NOT GOING AWAY.
IT'S A CRISIS IN SUPPLY.

Steve says SO PRESUMABLY THIS
PROGRAM WAS DESIGNED TO MAKE IT
EASIER FOR YOU TO DO YOUR THING.

Alfredo says THAT'S CORRECT.

Steve says HOW HAS IT WORKED?

Alfredo says IT'S WORKED TO A CERTAIN
DEGREE.
I THINK THAT OBVIOUSLY TWO YEARS
RUNNING NOW THE CITY HAS
APPROVED I BELIEVE 1200 UNITS,
AFFORDABLE UNITS, AND THEN
1600... THEY'RE ON TRACK FOR
1600 THIS YEAR.
SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY PROVEN TO BE A
HUGE HELP.
BUT EVEN UNDER THE MAYOR'S
TARGET OF 40,000 UNITS OVER THE
NEXT 12 YEARS, IT WOULD FALL
REMARKABLY SHORT OF THAT NUMBER.
SO WE NEED MORE DRASTIC MEASURES
TO INCENTIVIZE, AND JAN'S
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
THIS IS A SUPPLY SIDE ISSUE.
WE'VE TINKERED WITH THE DEMAND
SIDE.
THEY'VE INTRODUCED MORE
STRINGENT MORTGAGE REQUIREMENTS.
WE'VE TAXED FOREIGN BUYERS TO
TRY AND MODERATE THAT DEMAND,
BUT THE REAL ISSUE IS SUPPLY.
WE NEED TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE
THE SUPPLY OF UNITS THAT ARE IN
THE PIPELINE, BECAUSE YOU CAN
THROW ALL KINDS OF MONEY AT THE
AFFORDABILITY ISSUE WITH ALL
KINDS OF PROGRAMS, BUT IT'S
GOING TO BE A DOG CHASING ITS
TAIL UNLESS YOU REBALANCE THE
MARKET BY HAVING A SIGNIFICANT
SUPPLY THAT CAN MATCH THE
DEMAND.

Steve says LET ME PUT THAT TO TIM.
JOHN TORY WAS HERE LAST WEEK
TALKING ABOUT 40,000 UNITS OVER
A DOZEN YEARS.
HE SAYS HE HAS ASKED HIS
ADVISORS WHETHER THAT'S DOABLE,
AND EVERYBODY SAYS, EVEN THAT'S
PUSHING IT.
THERE JUST MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH
TRADES AVAILABLE TO GET ALL THAT
STUFF DONE.
IF THAT'S THE PICKLE WE'RE IN,
IS THAT DOABLE?

The caption changes to "Heard on the hustings."

Tim says I THINK IT IS,
BUT YOU'VE GOT TO CHANGE THE
SYSTEM THAT SLOWS IT DOWN.
LOOK, STEVE, TORY HAS A PLANNER,
JENNIFER KEESMAAT HAS A PLAN.
EVERYBODY HAS A PLAN.
IT'S A MATTER OF WILL TO GET IT
DONE.
WHAT DO I MEAN?
JOINING WITH THE PROVINCE.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IF JOHN
TORY AND PREMIER FORD TO GET
ALONG AND WORK TOGETHER.
THEIR DESTINIES CAN BE JOINED BY
ISSUES LIKE TRANSPORTATION AND
SOLVING THE HOUSING CRISIS.
IT'S A MATTER OF SPEEDING UP THE
APPROVAL PROCESS, WHICH TAKES
WILL, AND, QUITE FRANKLY,
STANDING UP TO MUNICIPAL
COUNCILLORS WHO WILL OFTEN STAND
IN THE WAY, WHETHER IT'S
AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR MIDDLE
CLASS HOUSING, TO BOW DOWN TO
NIMBYISM.
THAT'S THE KIND OF WILL WE NEED
AND THE JOB WILL GET DONE.

Steve says YOU ARE A FORMER
POLITICIAN, OF COURSE.
JOHN TORY, HE'S ONE VOTE OUT OF,
I GUESS IT'S GOING TO BE 26 ON
COUNCIL NOW.
HOW DO YOU WIELD YOUR WILL TO
GET LOCAL POLITICIANS OUT OF THE
WAY WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO NEED
THEIR VOTE DOWN THE ROAD FOR
SOMETHING YOU WANT?

Tim says I ACTUALLY DO BELIEVE THAT
GOING DOWN TO 25 IS GOING TO
RAISE THE CALIBRE OF DEBATE, IT
CAN ENABLE YOU TO FOCUS ON A
MANDATE ACROSS THE CITY, HAVE
LARGER WARDS AS WELL.
I THINK THEY WILL BE LESS LIKELY
TO OBJECT TO PROJECTS.
HOPEFULLY HAVE A COALITION
BEHIND THEM TO GET THE JOB DONE.
I DO BELIEVE THAT MAYOR TORY AND
DOUG FORD WILL BE JUDGED BY
SOLVING THESE BIG ISSUES.
CAN MY DAUGHTER WHO WENT TO
UNIVERSITY, SHE GOT THE A JOB,
FIND A PLACE TO CALL HOME AND
CAN SHE GET BACK AND FORTH
FASTER?

Steve says IT'S 25, ISN'T IT?
I SAID 26.
IT'S 25.

Jan says IT'S 25.

Steve says THANK YOU FOR THE
CLARIFICATION.
CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT JENNIFER
KEESMAAT'S PLAN.
SHE SAYS JOHN TORY'S PLAN ISN'T
NEARLY AMBITIOUS ENOUGH.
HE SAYS A DOZEN YEARS.
SHE SAYS 10 YEARS.
IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO
CONTEMPLATE DOING SOMETHING THAT
AMBITIOUS?

Mwarigha says YES, IT IS.
I THINK THE AMBITION IS PRETTY
MUCH THERE.
I BELIEVE THE BOARD OF TRADE
KIND OF SUGGESTED YOU CAN DO
10,000 UNITS A YEAR.
I THINK MY... AND I ACTUALLY
THINK THAT BOTH CANDIDATES
PROVIDE A SENSE OF AMBITION, A
DIRECTION OF AMBITION THAT IS
MOST WELCOME.
THE ISSUE WITH THE SUPPLY ISSUE
AND TRYING TO GET 100,000 UNITS,
OR WHETHER IT'S 40,000 OR 12
YEARS, IS WHAT KIND OF SUPPLY
ARE WE LOOKING FOR IN ORDER TO
ADDRESS THE AFFORDABILITY
PROBLEM?

Steve says SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER
TO THAT?

Mwarigha says AND THE ANSWER TO THAT IS, WE
HAVE ALLOWED THE MOST
SPECULATIVE PRIVATE INVESTMENT
INTO THE HOUSING SECTOR TO LEAD
THE MARKET.
WHEN HOUSING WAS MORE AFFORDABLE
FOR EVERYBODY, WE HAD A MUCH
BETTER BALANCE OF PUBLIC
INVESTMENT AND PRIVATE
INVESTMENT IN THE REAL ESTATE
SECTOR IN GENERAL THAN WE HAVE
TODAY, AND THAT IMBALANCE IS
CREATING AN ESCALATION OF RENTS
AND INABILITY OF HOME OWNERSHIP.
IT'S COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT
WITH THE AVERAGE WAGE RATE THAT
PEOPLE EARN IN THIS COUNTRY.

Steve says CAN I PUT SOME... I
MEAN, JENNIFER KEESMAAT HAS A
BUNCH OF IDEAS ON THIS, EVEN
JOHN TORY WHO WAS HERE LAST WEEK
SAID SHE HAS A LOT OF GOOD
IDEAS.
GREEN P PARKING LOTS.
START DEVELOPING THEM.
TTC LANDS, START DEVELOPING
THEM.
BUILD ON TOP OF BUILDINGS.
LIBRARIES OR REC. CENTRES YOU
COULD BUILD ON TOP OF?
DOABLE?

Jan says ABSOLUTELY DOABLE.
WE'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK
WITH OUR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS, TO
TIM'S POINT, THE MILLENNIALS.
FROM THAT FIRST ROOM THAT YOU
NEED TO RENT WHEN YOU'RE OUT OF
UNIVERSITY ALL THE WAY THROUGH
TO HOW DO YOU PLAN FOR A FAMILY
IN ACCOMMODATING THAT.
OUR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS ARE
SAYING THE HOUSING STOCK THAT'S
BEING MADE AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW
IS TOO SKEWED TO THE ONE BEDROOM
PLUS DEN MODEL.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR MORE BEDROOM
OPTIONS.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR GENTLE DENSE
FICTION IN OUR NEIGHBOURHOODS.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR HOUSING
ADJACENT TO OR OVER TRANSIT IN A
BIG WAY.
40 percent OF OUR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS
SAY THEY'D MOVE OUTSIDE THE CITY
IF THEY WERE LOCATED ON A
TRANSIT NETWORK THAT WOULD GET
THEM INTO THEIR JOBS.

Steve says I'VE GOT TO GO BACK
AT THIS, TIM.
AGAIN, CALLING ON YOUR POLITICAL
EXPERIENCE HERE.
WHEN THE NEIGHBOURS START GOING
TO THEIR LOCAL COUNCILLOR AND
SAYING, WE DON'T WANT OUR
NEIGHBOURHOOD INTENSIFIED.
WE DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF
BUILDING ON TOP OF THE LIBRARY.
WE LIKE IT JUST LIKE IT IS.
WHAT DO YOU DO?

The caption changes to "NIMBYISM."

Tim says YOU'VE GOT TO GO FORWARD.
I KNOW IT'S NOT ALWAYS EASY,
MUNICIPAL COUNCILLORS WILL
USUALLY THINK ABOUT EXISTING
VOTERS AS OPPOSED TO THOSE
COMING DOWN THE LINE.
THE MAYOR CAN HAVE LEADERSHIP
HERE.
QUITE FRANKLY A LOT OF THIS IS
GOING TO BE AT THE PROVINCIAL
LEVEL.
YOU NEED THE STRENGTH OF
LEADERSHIP THERE AS WELL.
I'LL GIVE YOU EXAMPLES.
WE HAD AN ONTARIO HOUSING SUMMIT
WITH THE LANDLORDS AND THE
BUILDERS AND THE REALTORS.
WE SAID YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO
BUILD ABOVE GO IN SUBWAY
STATIONS AND LRT STATIONS,
WHETHER IN TORONTO OR SPREAD
OUT.
I THINK A LOT OF MILLENNIALS
WOULD DIE TO LIVE... HOP IN THE
SUBWAY AND GO TO WORK.
DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE
COAT.
YOU DO NEED THE OMB, YOU NEED A
REFEREE IN THE GAME TO MAKE SURE
WE FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE GAME.
NOBODY LOVES THE REFEREE.
IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, WE WON'T
GET THESE HOUSING UNITS BUILT.
AND AS OF RIGHT ZONING WHICH
WOULD MEAN WITHIN A DISTANCE OF
A MAJOR SUBWAY OR GO STATION,
DEVELOPERS WOULD HAVE PERMISSION
TO BUILD HIGHER AND MORE DENSE.
THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF BOLD
CHOICES THAT WILL GET THE JOB
DONE.

Steve says WHAT'S PREVENTING
THAT FROM HAPPENING RIGHT NOW?

Jan says I WAS GOING
TO SAY... WHAT I THINK IS
PREVENTING IT IS WE'RE
SEPARATING TRANSIT AND HOUSING.
WE'RE SPENDING 8.4 BILLION dollars, 25
STATIONS, EGLINTON CROSS TOWN
HERE IN TORONTO, ONLY 32,000
HOUSING UNITS ARE GOING TO BE
DEVELOPED OR HAVE BEEN APPLIED
FOR WITHIN A 10-MINUTE WALK OF
THOSE.
SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'RE
TAKING ALL OF THIS MONEY TO PUT
IT INTO TRANSIT, PLANNING OUT
THE TRANSIT AND THEN THINKING,
OH, MAYBE WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT
HOUSING.
YOU NEED TO HAVE BOTH PLANNED AT
ONCE SO YOU CAN GET THE
CONSTRUCTION GOING ON THAT BASIS
TO GET THE HOUSING GOING.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Alfredo says JUST LIKE
OTHER INDUSTRIES, WE REALLY NEED
RADICAL DISRUPTION.
I WANT TO TAKE TIM'S POINT A
STEP FURTHER.
YOU REALLY DO NEED THE PROVINCE
TO WORK WITH THE MUNICIPALITIES
TO EFFECTUATE THIS.
I WOULD ACTUALLY SUGGEST TO THE
MAYORALTY CANDIDATES THAT THEY
APPROACH THE PROVINCE.
AND THIS MIGHT SOUND A BIT
DRACONIAN.
BUT THEY ACTUALLY USE
MINISTERIAL POWERS TO UP-ZONE
ALL PARKING LOTS, ALL COMMERCIAL
RETAIL STRIP MALLS THAT ARE
ACROSS THE GTA, AND IF YOU LOOK
AT THE ENORMITY OF THAT
RESOURCE, IT WOULD HAVE
MAGNIFICENT RESULTS.
AND YOU NEED TO START DOING THAT
NOW TO HAVE IMPACT FIVE YEARS
FROM NOW, TEN YEARS FROM NOW.

The caption changes to "Space, the final frontier."

Steve says YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD
HAPPEN IF YOU DID THAT?
A BUNCH OF CITY COUNCILLORS
WOULD HAVE A HEART ATTACK SAYING
YOU'RE INFRINGING ON OUR
JURISDICTION.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Alfredo says TO YOUR POINT.
IF... AND THERE ARE COUNCILLORS,
FOR EXAMPLE, CURRENT
COUNCILLORS, THEY MAY GET
REELECTED AND THERE WILL BE
FUTURE COUNCILLORS, SOME HAVE
BEEN CHAMPIONS OF AFFORDABLE
HOUSING IN THE CITY OF TORONTO,
AND THEY THINK RATIONALLY AND
THEY KNOW THAT WE NEED DRASTIC
MEASURES FOR DRASTIC TIMES.
UP-ZONING DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU
SKEW LOCAL CONCERNS OR THAT YOU
OVERRIDE GOOD URBAN PRACTICES.
IT JUST MEANS THAT YOU ALLOW THE
OPPORTUNITY.
AND THEN THE LOCAL COUNCILLORS
WILL HAVE TO BUILD WITH BUILT
FORM SHADOW IMPACTS, ALL THE
NIMBY ISSUES.
BUT BY UP-ZONING, BY AN EVENLY
AND BALANCED APPROACH ACROSS THE
GTA, THERE ARE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS
OF LAND AVAILABLE THAT ARE
CURRENTLY SERVICING PARKING LOTS
AND COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS THAT
QUITE FRANKLY NEED TO BE
REFRESHED AND RENEWED.
AND YOU CAN BUILD UP.
YOU CAN BUILD UP TO EIGHT TO TEN
STOREYS.

Tim says A MUNICIPAL
COUNCILLOR WOULD SAY DAMN THAT
PROVINCE, THEY'RE FORCING IT.
AND THE BACK ROOM IS SAYING,
THANK GOD YOU DID THAT.
I'VE SEEN IT ONCE IN A WHILE.
AND I'D ADD A CARROT TO
ALFREDO'S STICK AS WELL.
EVERY GOVERNMENT, PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT OR NATIONAL
GOVERNMENT, HAS INFRASTRUCTURE
FUNDS.
WATER, SEWER, ROADS.
START TARGETING THAT TO
MUNICIPALITIES WHO ARE READY TO
GO WITH HOUSING APPROVED TO
LAND.
THERE'S A LOT OF LAND THAT IS
CURRENTLY LOCKED OUT OF
COMMISSION BECAUSE YOU DON'T
HAVE THE WATER TO TURN THE TAP
ON OR THE DRIVEWAY TO PARK THE CAR.

Jan says IF I COULD
POINT TO ANOTHER SOURCE OF
SUPPLY THAT COULD BE
PROVINCIALLY DIRECTED, IT'S
DEALING WITH RENT CONTROL,
BECAUSE IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE,
THE LEVEL OF RENT CONTROL THAT'S
IN PLACE RIGHT NOW IS PREVENTING
LONGER-TERM INVESTORS IN
RENTAL... LONG-TERM RENTAL
PROPERTIES LIKE PENSION FUNDS,
INSURANCE COMPANIES, FROM
GETTING IN THE GAME.
I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE TO HAVE A
MODEST LEVEL RENT CONTROL THAT
ALLOWS SUFFICIENT RETURN FOR
THOSE INVESTORS.

The caption changes to "Mwarigha, @WoodGreenDotOrg."

Mwarigha says CAN I JUMP IN THERE?
I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT.
WE ACTUALLY... IF YOU LOOK AT
REALITY, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A
RENT CONTROL SYSTEM IN THIS
COUNTRY, AND IN THIS TOWN
ESPECIALLY.
SO WHEN YOU BUILD, YOU CAN START
CHARGING RENT AT WHATEVER LEVEL.
THAT IS NOT RENT CONTROL.
WHEN THERE'S A TURNOVER IN THE
UNIT, YOU CAN CHARGE WHATEVER
RENT YOU WANT.
THE ONLY THING THAT RENT CONTROL
DOES IS TO CONTROL PEOPLE WHO
ARE ALREADY RENTING A UNIT SO
THAT YOU DON'T COME BACK AT THE
END OF THE YEAR AND ADD ON
ANOTHER 1,000 dollars.
THAT WAS THE WHOLE ESSENCE ABOUT
THE FAIR HOUSING ACT BECAUSE OF
THE STORY OF SHANNON MARTIN, WHO
WAS FEATURED IN THE CBC, BECAUSE
THE LANDLORD CAME BACK... SHE
WAS ALREADY PAYING 1600 dollars.
NEXT MONTH... NEXT LEASE
RENEWAL, HE WAS ASKING FOR 2600 dollars.
THAT STORY PLAYED OUT IN THE NEWS.
IT IS NOT A GOOD STORY.
SO YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE REFEREES
IN THE GAME, BUT I DON'T THINK
THAT RENT CONTROL HAS ACTUALLY
BEEN AN ISSUE IN THIS PROVINCE
FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS...

Jan says THERE IS A
SUPPLY CONSTRAINT BECAUSE YOU'RE
NOT GETTING ENOUGH PURPOSE-BUILT
RENTALS BUILT BECAUSE THERE'S
NOT SUFFICIENT RETURN FOR THOSE
PENSION FUNDS AND THOSE
INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT NEED A
SUFFICIENT RETURN OUT OF IT...

Mwarigha says BUT THE PURPOSE
RENTAL AREA HAS HAD LITERALLY...
THE EXEMPTION HAS BEEN THERE
SINCE 1991.

Steve says AND IT'S GONE.

Mwarigha says IT'S GONE.

Steve says HANG ON.
LET'S BRING EVERYBODY UP TO
SCRATCH HERE.
IT USED TO BE THAT IF YOU WERE A
POST-1991 BUILDING, IT WAS
DIFFERENT RULES THAN THE PRE.
AND THE KATHLEEN WYNNE
GOVERNMENT PUT HARD FAST
CONTROLS ON EVERYTHING.
NOW, HAS... IN YOUR VIEW, THAT
HAS...

Jan says WE'RE NOT
SEEING SUFFICIENT APARTMENT
SUPPLY COME ON STREAM.

Steve says IT'S BEEN A DISINCENTIVE.

Jan says A DISINCENTIVE.

The caption changes to "Alfredo Romano, @CastlepointNuma."

Alfredo says TO PARSE
THIS OUT, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY
TO ESTABLISH A NEW RENT, A
PURPOSE-BUILT RENTAL.
THE RENT CONTROLS ARE OBVIOUSLY
THERE TO MAKE SURE FAMILIES AND
INDIVIDUALS DON'T GET DISPLACED.
BUT TO JAN'S POINT, IT'S
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, YOU HAVE TO
REALLY LOOK AT RENTAL LEVELS AND
TO INCENTIVIZE INVESTORS,
INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS IN
PARTICULAR, TO INCREASE SUPPLY,
THEY HAVE TO BE AT REASONABLE
RATES.
OUR INDUSTRY IS ENTIRELY BUILT
UPON VERY PRUDENT LENDING
PRACTICES, AND THAT'S WHAT'S
MADE OUR INDUSTRY VERY STRONG,
IN CANADA, PARTICULARLY IN
ONTARIO.
SO YOU NEED TO WORK WITH
FINANCING INSTITUTIONS TO FIND
THOSE LEVELS OF RENTAL INCOME
THAT WILL SUSTAIN FINANCING SO
THAT DEVELOPERS CAN INVEST AND
GET A REASONABLE RETURN.
OTHERWISE, IT WON'T HAPPEN.
SO I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE TALK
ABOUT A NUMBER OF TYPES OF UNITS
AND AT DIFFERENT RANGES IN THAT
BASKET, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO
ACTUALLY PARSE THOSE OUT AND
UNDERSTAND WHAT...

[SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY]

The caption changes to "Tim Hudak, @timhudak."

Tim says I LISTENED TO A
LOT OF THEM OVER THE YEARS.
IT'S RARE WE CAN FIND EVERY
SINGLE ECONOMIST WHO AGREE ON
THE SAME TOPIC, AND RENT
CONTROLS ARE BAD BECAUSE THEY
LIMIT LONG-TERM SUPPLY.
LOOK, EACH AND EVERY INSTANCE,
THE HOUSING CRISIS REVOLVES
AROUND SUPPLY, WHETHER IT'S
RENTAL, WHETHER IT'S AFFORDABLE
HOMES, WHETHER IT'S SINGLE
FAMILY DETACHED HOMES.
WE HAVE A GOOD PROBLEM.
WHERE DO WE WANT TO LIVE?
PARTICULARLY IN THE GREATER
TORONTO-HAMILTON AREA.
FANTASTIC.
MILLENNIALS ARE GETTING JOBS AND
PROMOTED.
THEY WANT HOMES.
FANTASTIC.
WE HAVE A MAJOR SUPPLY ISSUE.
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.
SECONDLY A BIG TAX ISSUE,
PARTICULARLY IN TORONTO, WITH
THE LAND TRANSFER TAX THAT
REALLY WHACKS YOU JUST TO MOVE
ACROSS THE STREET TO GET THE
KEYS.
A LEAVES A LOT OF PEOPLE FROZEN
IN A FIRST-TIME HOME INSTEAD OF
MOVING UP.

Steve says MAYOR TORY SAID HE
MET WITH YOU GUYS ABOUT THAT AND
HE NEEDS THAT REVENUE IN ORDER
TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.

Alfredo says WORKING
HARD ON THAT.

Steve says NOT TO FIRST BASE ON
THAT ONE.

Mwarigha says I WAS LOOKING AT
THE NUMBERS BY URBAN NATION, ONE
OF THE MARKETING RESEARCH
ORGANIZATIONS.
AND REALLY WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT
BETWEEN 2000 AND 2012, THERE HAS
BEEN A HUGE INCREASE IN THE
AMOUNT OF SUPPLY, IF SUPPLY IS
THE ONLY THING.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS BECAUSE
OF THE LOW INTEREST RATES, A LOT
OF PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL CAPITAL
ALSO WENT INTO THE REAL ESTATE
MARKET.
AND THAT'S WHAT HAS INCREASED
THE SUPPLY.
SO IF THERE'S ANY TIME IN THE
LAST 40 YEARS THAT SUPPLY HAS
INCREASED AT AN ASTRONOMICAL
RATE, IT IS THE LAST FIVE, SIX
TO EIGHT YEARS.
THE BIG DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF
MAKING THAT STOCK AFFORDABLE IS
THE ABSENCE OF A PUBLIC
INVESTMENT COMPONENT, AND A
PUBLIC INVESTMENT COMPONENT IS
SOMETHING LIKE THE OPEN DOOR
PROGRAM.
HOUSING IS ACTUALLY, OUT OF ALL
THE PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE, THE
ONE THAT HAS THE MOST PRIVATE
MONEY IN IT, AND THAT'S A GOOD
THING, BECAUSE UNLIKE HEALTH,
WHERE YOU DON'T PAY... THE
PUBLIC PAYS ANYTHING.
HERE IT'S A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE
PRIVATE SECTOR.
THE PUBLIC SECTOR... THE PUBLIC
INVESTMENT IS MISSING.
OPEN DOOR IS A GOOD DIRECTION IN
THAT.
THE PROBLEM THAT THE OPEN DOOR
HAS RUN INTO IS, WHILE WE COULD
BUILD A UNIT AT 300,000 dollars FIVE
YEARS AGO, NOW IT'S 400,000 dollars.
SO THEY NEED TO KEEP INCREASING
THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO KEEP
THE AFFORDABILITY DOWN.

Steve says ALL RIGHT.
LET ME TAKE THAT, JAN, AND PUT
THIS TO YOU.
WE HEAR OVER AND OVER AGAIN... I
DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TRUE, YOU
TELL ME... WE HEAR OVER AND OVER
AGAIN IT'S HARD STILL TO GET
STUFF THROUGH CITY HALL, IT'S
HARD TO GET DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL
PROCESSES AND SO ON.
IS THAT STILL A FACTOR?

Jan says CERTAINLY WE
LOOK AT OPPORTUNITY OF
STREAMLINING THE PLANNING
PROCESS AND THE SPEED TO MARKET
ON ACTIVITIES.
ONE AREA WE'VE BEEN PARTICULARLY
PAYING ATTENTION TO IS SECTION 37.
THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT CHARGE.

Steve says SECTION 37 OF WHAT?

Jan says OF THE CITY...

Alfredo says THE
PLANNING ACT.

Steve says THE PLANNING ACT, OKAY.

The caption changes to "Jan De Silva, @desilvajanet."

Jan says BASICALLY
WHAT HAPPENS IS IT'S INTENDED TO
PROVIDE COMMUNITY BENEFITS IF
YOU'RE BUILDING OUTSIDE A LEVEL
WHERE THE PLANNING WAS.
YOU'VE SEEN PARKS AND OTHER
THINGS BEING DEVELOPED.
WHAT WE'RE ADVOCATING FOR IS A
MODEL LIKE VANCOUVER, WHERE THE
STRUCTURE IS STANDARDIZED.
RIGHT NOW WE HEAR IT COULD BE UP
TO A YEAR NEGOTIATING WITH A
COUNCILLOR AT A COUNCILLOR LEVEL
FOR HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO PAY AND
IT'S THEN AT THE DISCRETION OF
THE COUNCILLOR WHERE THOSE FUNDS
GET DEPLOYED.

Steve says JUST SO I UNDERSTAND
THAT.
YOU WANT TO BUILD FIVE OR TEN
MORE STOREYS ON THAT CONDO OR
PURPOSE-BUILT, I NEED A DAY CARE
CENTRE, I NEED A PARK, I NEED A
LIBRARY...

Alfredo says AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

Steve says THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.

Alfredo says AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMES
UNDER THE PURVIEW OF SECTION 37.
THAT'S HOW IT'S BEEN ACHIEVED
OVER THE LAST DECADES THROUGH
SECTION 37 IS THERE'S NO RHYME
OR REASON TO IT.

Steve says IS THERE WRONG WITH THAT?

Jan says WE WOULD
ARGUE THE VANCOUVER MODEL MAKES
SENSE BECAUSE IT'S A
STANDARDIZED SECTION 37 CHARGE
SO YOU DON'T NEED TO GO INTO A
NEGOTIATION, DEPENDING ON THE
TYPE OF PRODUCT THAT'S COMING TO
MARKET, IT'S PREORDAINED.
WHAT WE WOULD ARGUE IT WOULD
MAKE SENSE FOR THOSE FUNDS TO BE
MORE TRANSPARENT REVIEWED IN
TERMS OF THE APPLICATION OF
THOSE FUNDS BY A CITY COUNCIL AT
LARGE, RATHER THAN NOW IT SITS...

Tim says YOU'RE BEING TOO POLITE.
IT'S A SHAKEDOWN.
IF I TRIED THAT WHEN I WAS A
CABINET MINISTER, STEVE, I WOULD
HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF CABINET.
I'LL LET YOU BUILD THAT CASINO
IF YOU BUILD THIS PARK IN MY
RIDING?
C'MON.
THIS IS A SHAKEDOWN.
MAKE IT A STANDARD RULE ACROSS
COUNCIL SO YOU DON'T EMPOWER ONE
CITY COUNCILLOR TO HAVE A PET
PROJECT.

Steve says THAT'S A PROVINCIAL STATUTE.

Mwarigha says WOODGREEN IS ONE
OF THE LARGEST NON-PROFIT
DEVELOPERS IN THE CITY OF TORONTO.
AND IN THE PROCESS OF
DEVELOPING, THE ONE THING THAT I
WOULD SAY WE NEED TO LOOK AT
MORE CLOSELY IS, WHEN YOU NEED
REZONING, IT GETS VERY
COMPLICATED.
IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, WE
FOUND THAT THAT'S WHERE 60 percent OF
THE TIME IS WASTED.
THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF SITE
APPROVAL AND THE ACTUAL BUILDING
PERMIT IS NOT THAT... IT'S
ACTUALLY PRETTY REASONABLE.
THE THING ABOUT THE ZONING ISSUE
IS THEN IT BECOMES A PUBLIC
CONVERSATION, AND THERE'S VALUE
IN ENGAGEMENT, AND I'M ALL FOR
IT, BUT SOMETIMES IT DEGENERATES
INTO NEIGHBOURHOOD POLITICS OR
ISSUE OF NIMBYISM.
THAT'S WHERE THE DELAY IS
HAPPENING.
AND SOME OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND
WHAT WE DO AS WOODGREEN IN ORDER
TO TRY TO REDUCE THAT PERIOD IS
TO WORK MORE ENGAGED WITH OUR
COUNCILLORS, WORK WITH OUR
COMMUNITIES, EXPLAIN TO THEM THE
BENEFITS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING
AND THE NEED FOR AN INCLUSIVE
NEIGHBOURHOOD.
AND I THINK THAT HAS HELPED US
KIND OF REDUCE THE RESISTANCE
PERIOD, WHICH IS WHAT THE ZONING
PERIOD ESSENTIALLY BECOMES, AND
IT'S A TOUGH ONE BECAUSE IT'S
SUPPOSED TO BE A POSITIVE
ENGAGEMENT PERIOD, BUT IT ENDS
UP BEING SOMETHING ELSE, AND
THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE ISSUE IS.

The caption changes to "In the zone."

Alfredo says I WOULDN'T
LET THE CURRENT CANDIDATES BOTH
FOR CITY COUNCIL OR THE MAYORS
POSITION OFF THE HOOK THAT EASILY.
I DO AGREE WITH JAN.
WE DO NEED TO THROW SOME
RESOURCES AT THE PROCESS AND
SPEED IT UP.
THE CITY'S OVERWHELMED.
THEY HAVE DOZENS... HUNDREDS OF
APPLICATIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO
DEAL WITH.
THE DEPARTMENTS AT THE CITY
AREN'T ABLE TO MANAGE IT VERY
WELL BECAUSE IT'S JUST
OVERWHELMING.
THERE'S JUST TOO MUCH.
SO THE CANDIDATES HAVE TO
ADDRESS THE PROCESS ITSELF.
AND A YEAR... I'D BE THANKFUL
FOR A YEAR IN PROCESS.

Steve says IT GOES LONGER.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Alfredo says MUCH LONGER.
THAT'S JUST NOT REALITY.
IT'S A NUMBER OF YEARS, AND THE
STANDARDIZED SECTION 37...
SECTION 37 IS NOT THE ONLY
ISSUE... BUT STANDARDIZING
SECTION 37 REQUIREMENTS IS
ABSOLUTELY THE WAY TO GO AND IT
SHOULD INCLUDE INCLUSIONARY
ZONING.

Steve says I WAS JUST GOING TO
ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.
EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS AND WHETHER
IT'S A GOOD THING.

Alfredo says IT'S DEFINITELY A GOOD THING.
SIMPLY BECAUSE IT CREATES A
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

Steve says WHAT IS IT?

Alfredo says IT'S TO APPLY TO ALL
DEVELOPMENTS ACROSS THE CITY,
AND YOU WOULD PICK A
PERCENTAGE... LET'S JUST SAY
10 PERCENT OF ALL THE UNITS THAT
YOU WOULD BUILD, AND THOSE WOULD
BE CATEGORIZED AND PROVIDED AS
AFFORDABLE HOUSING BY THE
DEVELOPER OR DEVELOPER AND ITS
PARTNER, SUCH AS YOUR COMPANY.
AND THE REASON WHY IT'S A GOOD
THING IS, ONE, BECAUSE YOU
REMOVE THIS BACK-DOOR DEALING
AND TRYING TO PROVIDE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING.
I WAS INVOLVED IN ONE
NEGOTIATION TO PROVIDE 300 UNITS
ON THE WATERFRONT.
IT TOOK THREE YEARS TO
NEGOTIATE.
BUT IT WAS A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME
AND IT'S A GREAT MODEL THAT
COULD BE USED TO DEVELOP
INCLUSIONARY ZONING.

Steve says DO PEOPLE KNOW WHICH
10 percent OF THE UNITS IN THE BUILDING
ARE SUBSIDIZED?

Alfredo says WELL, IF THEY'RE AMALGAMATED
IN ONE SECTION OF THE
DEVELOPMENT, THEN THEY WOULD.
BUT THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY
DIFFERENCE.
THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE A
NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN
AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNIT AND A
MARKET RENTAL UNIT.
THEY WOULD USE THE SAME
AMENITIES.
SO PRESUMABLY THAT'S WHAT
HAPPENED.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE WOULD AVOID
WHAT WE CALL POOR DOORS.

Steve says UNDERSTOOD.
I'M ALSO WONDERING, DO THE 90 percent
OF THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE
PAYING MARKET RATES, ARE THEY
COOL WITH SUBSIDIZING 10 percent OF THE
OTHERS?

Alfredo says I HONESTLY THINK THAT OUR
SOCIETY HAS ADVANCED TO THE
POINT NOW WHERE THIS IS NOT AN
ISSUE ANYMORE.
I REALLY BELIEVE THAT.
EVEN IN THE MARKETPLACE, I THINK
THAT'S TRUE.
TORONTONIANS OR ONTARIANS IN
GENERAL, CANADIANS, WE'RE VERY
TOLERANT AND UNDERSTANDING
PEOPLE.
LET'S FACE IT.
OUR COMMUNITIES NEED TO BE
POPULATED WITH A MIX OF PEOPLE,
BOTH DIVERSE IN TERMS OF RACE,
ETHNICITY, AND ECONOMIC STATURE.

Steve says CAN I GET TIM'S TAKE
ON THAT.
INCLUSIONARY ZONING?
ARE YOU FOR IT OR AGAINST IT?

Tim says DONE THE RIGHT
WAY, FOR IT.
I DO BELIEVE THERE'S GOING TO BE
A PUBLIC BENEFIT THAT YOU'RE
GOING TO INCLUDE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING IN SAY A MIDDLE CLASS
NEIGHBOURHOOD.
THAT SHOULD BE PAID FOR MORE
BROADLY BY THE TAXPAYER.
MAYBE IT'S CITY OWNED AND
PROVINCIAL LAND GIVEN TO THEM AT
A LOWER RATE, FOR EXAMPLE.
I DON'T THINK THE NEIGHBOURS
SHOULD HAVE TO PAY THE
ADDITIONAL COST OF THAT
ADDITIONAL HOUSING.
IT SHOULD BE THE TAXPAYER.
OTHERWISE, IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

Steve says YOUR THOUGHTS?

Mwarigha says I THINK IF YOU
REMIND ME, THERE'S AN OPTION OF
CASH IN LIEU OF THE 10 percent.

Alfredo says THAT'S CORRECT.

Mwarigha says I ACTUALLY THINK
IT MIGHT BE BETTER FOR THE CITY
TO COLLECT THE CASH, CREATE A
POOL OF FUNDS THAT THEY THEN USE
AND INJECT INTO SPECIFIC
DEVELOPMENTS IN PARTNERSHIP WITH
THE PRIVATE SECTOR BECAUSE
THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO PROVIDE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND WITHIN
THAT CONTEXT HAVE A MUCH BETTER
AGREEMENT WITH THE OUTCOME OF
WHAT THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE,
INCLUDING THE RETURNS.
AND I THINK THE PROBLEM IS, WE
HAVE A SLATE OF INVESTORS WHO
WANT QUICK GAIN, BUT I THINK WE
NEED TO START WORKING WITH THE
MORE PATIENT CAPITAL.
IF YOU DO THAT, I THINK YOU CAN
MOVE THAT NUMBER UP FROM 10 percent UP
CLOSER TO 20 percent.

Alfredo says THE PATIENT
CAPITAL YOU'RE REFERRING TO,
WHICH JAN ALSO SPOKE TO,
DEFINITELY HAS LONG-TERM
THINKING, AND THE RETURNS HAVE
TO BE MUCH LOWER.
SO I GRANT YOU THAT.
BUT I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT YOU
NEED INCLUSIONARY ZONING SO THAT
EVERY DEVELOPMENT... BECAUSE OUR
INDUSTRY IS CERTAINLY NOT ON THE
SAME PAGE ON THIS, AND TO GET
THEM ACROSS THAT LINE, YOU
REALLY NEED TO LEGISLATE THIS
AND BASICALLY SAY, "YOU HAVE TO
TAKE UP THIS SOCIAL
RESPONSIBILITY AND BE PART OF
THE SOLUTION."
AND YOU'RE RIGHT.
WE NEED THE TOOLS.
CASH IN LIEU, IT'S DEFINITELY A
GOOD TOOL.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO ENSURE THAT
THAT CASH IS ABSOLUTELY TARGETED
AND USED FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

Mwarigha says THAT'S CORRECT.

Alfredo says IT DOESN'T
GO OFF INTO A BLACK HOLE AT CITY HALL.

Mwarigha says I AGREE 100 PERCENT.

Jan says I WAS GOING
TO SAY WITH INCLUSIONARY ZONING,
THIS IS REALLY CRITICAL FOR OUR
WORK FORCE BECAUSE WE HAVE
DIFFERENT SALARY LEVELS,
DIFFERENT ROLES IN OUR
WORKPLACE.
UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S HAPPENING
WITH THE UNAFFORDABILITY OF
HOUSING IN THE CITY, FOLKS ARE
HAVING TO MOVE FURTHER AND
FURTHER AND FURTHER OUT AND
THEY'RE THE ONES THAT CAN LEAST
AFFORD IT.
WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF REALLY
IMPORTANT SERVICE STAFF WORKING
IN OUR HOTELS DOWNTOWN THAT ARE
LIVING IN MISSISSAUGA, HAVING TO
TRANSIT THREE DIFFERENT TRANSIT
SYSTEMS DAILY, AN HOUR AND A
HALF ONE WAY, 20 dollars ONE WAY TO GET
TO JOBS.
IT'S JUST NOT FAIR.
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE
PEOPLE LIVING CLOSER TO JOBS OF
ALL INCOME BRACKETS.

Mwarigha says AND WHEN YOU
COMBINE THAT WITH SOME OF THE
INITIATIVES TO TRY AND, YOU
KNOW, TO TRY AND CAP MINIMUM
WAGE, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM,
BECAUSE NOW NOT ONLY DOES THE
PERSON HAVE TO TRY AND FIND
ACCOMMODATION OUT THERE, YOU
CAN'T PAY THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO
BE ABLE TO AFFORD HOUSING.
SO IT'S A REAL CRISIS...

Alfredo says STEVE, WE
CAN GROUND THIS AND PUT IT IN
CONTEXT.
IF INCLUSIONARY ZONING WAS
INPUTTED BY MAYOR LASTMAN.

Steve says EXCUSE ME?

Alfredo says TWENTY YEARS AGO.
INCLUSIONARY ZONING IS IN PLACE.
WE WOULD BE 30,000 UNITS AHEAD
TODAY.
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY TO
WORK THIS OUT.
THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.
I THINK THERE'S A POLITICAL WILL
BOTH AT THE PROVINCE, FINALLY,
AND AT THE CITY LEVEL TO
IMPLEMENT INCLUSIONARY ZONING.
AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT NOW, THE
GOALS THAT HAVE BEEN TARGETED BY
BOTH... CERTAINLY BY MAYOR TORY
AT 40,000 AND CERTAINLY KEESMAAT
AT 100,000, THEY'RE NOT
ACHIEVABLE.
SO INCLUSIONARY ZONING AMONG
OTHER TOOLS...

Steve says I HAVE LITERALLY A
MINUTE LEFT.
HERE'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
WRINKLE ON THIS.
THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THE
CAPITAL CITY THAT ARE ACTUALLY
OVERHOUSED.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
SINCE 2001, THE NUMBERS SAY 50 percent
OF THE LAND MASS IN TORONTO HAS
REDUCED IN DENSITY BY 200,000
PEOPLE.
THERE ARE TWO MILLION SPARE
BEDROOMS IN THE TORONTO AREA.
MANY PEOPLE ARE DESPERATE FOR
HOUSING.
MANY PEOPLE HAVE TOO MUCH
HOUSING.
WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT?

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Tim says TWO THINGS.
NUMBER ONE, YOU HAVE TO FIND
HOUSING AVAILABLE THEY CAN MOVE
INTO. MY PARENTS WERE IN THIS
CATEGORY. THEY HAD A FAMILY
HOME. TOO MANY BEDROOMS. THERE
WASN'T A PLACE THAT SUITED THEM.
THEN THEY MOVED AND THE FAMILY
HOME OPENED UP.
BUT IT TOOK A LONG TIME.
THAT'S A SUPPLY SUGGESTION.
THE NDP HAD A GOOD IDEA ON THIS
IN THEIR PLATFORM IN THE
PROVINCIAL ELECTION WHICH WAS TO
GET PEOPLE TO RENT OUT THE
GRANNY FLATS.
THAT WOULD CREATE A LOT OF
AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING UNITS
IN OUR CITY.

Steve says I'VE NOW LIVED LONG
ENOUGH TO HEAR THE FORMER LEADER
OF THE ONTARIO PC PARTY DEFEND A
NEW DEMOCRATIC POLICY IDEA.

Tim says THE NEW ME.

The caption changes to "Producer: Harrison Lowman, @harrisonlowman."

Steve says THANKS EVERYBODY FOR
COMING IN TO TVO TONIGHT TO HELP
OUT WITH THIS DISCUSSION.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

Mwarigha says THANKS.
BYE.

Watch: Affordable Housing and the Toronto Election