Transcript: Burlington's Mayoral Race | Oct 17, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Burlington's mayoral race. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says OCTOBER 22nd IS
ELECTION DAY ACROSS ONTARIO'S
444 MUNICIPALITIES.
AS PART OF OUR COVERAGE, WE'RE
FEATURING DEBATES AMONG SOME OF
THE MORE INTERESTING MAYORAL
CONTESTS.
TONIGHT, WE PUT THE SPOTLIGHT ON
BURLINGTON.
IT MAY ONLY BE THE 14th
LARGEST CITY IN ONTARIO WITH A
POPULATION JUST UNDER 200,000,
BUT SITUATED BETWEEN TORONTO AND
HAMILTON MEANS THERE IS INTENSE
PRESSURE ON BURLINGTON TO GROW
AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT VISIONS
FOR THAT GROWTH.
LET'S DISCUSS BURLINGTON'S
FUTURE WITH THE CURRENT MAYOR,
RICK GOLDRING, WHO'S SEEKING HIS THIRD TERM...

Rick is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, blue shirt, and brown tie.

Steve continues MARIANNE MEED WARD,
COUNCILLOR FOR WARD 2...

Marianne is in her forties, with long straight blond hair. She's wearing a bright red blazer and a golden pendant necklace.

Steve continues AND MIKE WALLACE, THE FORMER CONSERVATIVE
MP FOR BURLINGTON AND FORMER
CITY COUNCILLOR AS WELL.

Mike is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, striped blue shirt, and checkered black tie.

Steve continues IT'S GREAT OF ALL THREE OF
YOU TO BE, US HERE ON TVO.
LET'S GO DOWN THE LINE.
WHAT'S THIS ELECTION ABOUT?

The caption changes to "Rick Goldring. Mayor of Burlington."
Then, it changes again to "The city by the bay."

Rick says WELL, I THINK THE ELECT IS
ABOUT LEADERSHIP.
BURLINGTON IS IN A UNIQUE
POSITION, THE FACT THAT WE DON'T
HAVE ANY MORE GREEN FILL
REMAINING.
AND THE FOCUS OF THE DISCUSSION
HAS BEEN FIGURING OUT WAYS THAT
WE CAN HELP MITIGATE THE GROWTH
AND MANAGE THE GROWTH MORE
EFFECTIVELY AND WE DON'T NEED
THE TOOLS.
WE NEED BETTER TOOLS, WE SHOULD
SAY, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS
RIGHT NOW TO MANAGE THE PACE OF
DEVELOPMENT AND IN MY VIEW, WE
NEED A MAYOR THAT'S EXPERIENCED,
THAT'S STABLE, THAT'S TESTED,
AND CAN WORK WITH THE PREDICT
GOVERNMENT TO HELP IMPROVE
WHAT'S GOING ON IN BURLINGTON
AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WITH
REGARD TO PLACES TO GROW.

Steve says WHAT'S THIS ELECTION ABOUT?

Marianne shows a map of the city on paper and says
THIS IS ABOUT DEVELOPMENT
ACROSS THE CITY BUT PARTICULARLY
DOWNTOWN.
SO THIS IS THE MAP OF MY
DOG-EARED COPY HERE.
30 MORE HIGH-RISES IN THE
DOWNTOWN CORE THAT HAS BEEN
APPROVED 6-1 BY THE CURRENT
COUNCIL.
WE DIDN'T HAVE TO.

Steve says SIX VOTES TO ONE.

The caption changes to "Marianne Meed Ward. Mayoral Candidate."

Marianne says I WAS THE ONE THAT DID NOT SUPPORT THIS.
AND THIS BLOWS WELL PAST OUR
PROVINCIAL REQUIREMENTS, OUR
GROWTH TARGETS.
THIS IS ON THE CURRENT COUNCIL
THAT HAS DONE THIS BE AND THIS
IS WHY THE PEOPLE ARE UPSET.
BECAUSE WE HAVE THE SCHOOLS.
WE HAVE DECISION MAKING.
THE PROVINCE DOESN'T PLAN OUR
CITIES.
THEY SET OVERALL TARGETS WHICH
WE'VE MET 13 YEARS EARLY.
SO I'M RUNNING BECAUSE I WANT TO
CHANGE THIS PLAN.
AND I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE HERE
THAT WILL DO THAT.
THAT WILL TRY TO DO THAT.

Steve says WHAT'S THIS ELECTION
ABOUT, MIKE WALLACE?

The caption changes to "Mike Wallace. Mayoral Candidate."

Mike says THANKS, STEVE, FOR HAVING US
ON, BY THE WAY, AND HIGHLIGHTING
THE DISCUSSION THAT'S HAPPENING
IN BURLINGTON.
I THINK THE... THIS ELECTION IS
REALLY TWO-FOLD.
ONE, AT THE DOOR, YOU HEAR ABOUT
CONGESTION AND GROWTH.
ABSOLUTELY AN ISSUE FOR THE
PEOPLE OF BURLINGTON.
I THINK THE OTHER PART OF THIS
IS THAT WE NEED EFFECTIVE
EXPERIENCED LEADERSHIP IN THE
MAYOR'S CHAIR AND ON COUNCIL.
I THINK THIS CURRENT COUNCIL HAS
GROUND TO A BIT OF A HALT BASED
ON THE DISCUSSION THAT IS
HAPPENING AT THE COUNCIL TABLE.
I THINK IT NEEDS A CLEAN SLATE.
I THINK I BRING EXPERIENCE BOTH
AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL AND AT
THE FEDERAL LEVEL DEALING WITH
OTHER LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.
UNDERSTANDING THE PROCESS, HOW
TO GET THINGS ACTUALLY DONE FOR
THIS COMMUNITY, FOR BURLINGTON.
AND SO I THINK THE BOAT... THE
PEOPLE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT THEY
WANT IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP,
DIRECTION FOR THE CITY TO GO.
AND I THINK I'M THE BEST CHOICE
FOR THAT.

Steve says OKAY.
WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, SINCE ALL
OF YOU IN VARIOUS WAYS HAVE
INDICATED THAT GROWTH IS VERY
MUCH WHAT THIS ELECTION IS
ABOUT, LET'S CONSIDER THE
COMPETING VISIONS FOR BURLINGTON
RIGHT NOW.
YOU OBVIOUSLY THINK THE CURRENT
PLAN TO DEVELOP AS MUCH AS YOU
INTEND TO IS THE WAY TO GO.

Rick says SO WE NEED TO CLARIFY SOME
THINGS HERE, STEVE.
SO IN JULY OF 2016, ALL OF
BURLINGTON CITY COUNCIL
SUPPORTED A DIRECTION TO LOOK AT
A MOBILE HUB IN THE DOWNTOWN AND
AROUND OUR BURLINGTON GO
STATIONS AND THAT WAS FEEDING
OFF OF THE APPROVAL, THE
UNANIMOUS APPROVAL OF OUR
STRATEGIC PLAN THAT COUNCIL AND
THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPED
TOGETHER.
THAT WAS APPROVED IN APRIL OF
2016.
AND WE HAVE A VISION FOR THE
CITY AND IT IS IN THE STRATEGIC
PLAN.
I DO WANT TO POINT OUT, THOUGH,
THE FACT THAT MARIANNE HAS
CONSISTENTLY SHOWING THIS PROP
ABOUT THE 30 NEW BUILDINGS IN
DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON.
THOSE ARE SIMPLY THE UPPER
HEIGHT LIMITS.
THEY'RE NOT THE AS OF RIGHT
LIMITS.
THERE HAS TO BE MORE ANALYSIS
AND THERE HAS TO BE DEVELOPMENT
APPLICATIONS AND THE REALITY IN
DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON, THERE'S SO
MUCH INFRASTRUCTURE, THERE IS
ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.
THE CHANCE OF SEEING 30 NEW TALL
BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON
IS JUST NOT LIKELY.
FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.
SO THERE NEEDS TO BE MUCH MORE
ANALYSIS TO GET THERE.

Marianne says THE PLAN SETS WHAT YOU CAN DO
AND, IN FACT, WHAT WE'VE SEEN
CONSISTENTLY IS GOING BEYOND THE
PLAN SO THERE WAS A RECENT
HIGH-RISE THAT ONE OF THE BLUE,
MA ON THIS PROP, WHICH IS
ACTUALLY A MAP IN A STAFF
REPORT, BY THE WAY.
WE SHOULD GIVE IT THE RESPECT IT
DESERVES AND IT WAS APPROVED AS
THIS COUNCIL AS THE VISION, AS
THE PLAN.
THE OFFICIAL PLAN SETS YOUR
VISION.
AND THE OFFICIAL PLAN IS 4 TO 8
STOREYS AND THE CURRENT MAYOR
VOTED FOR 18 STOREYS.
THAT'S FOUR TIMES WHAT'S IN THE
PLAN.
THIS PLAN WOULD ALLOW 12
STOREYS, 17 STOREYS, 25 STOREYS,
22 STOREYS.

Steve says CAN DOWNTOWN
BURLINGTON HANDLE THAT.

Marianne says WE CAN'T HANDLE THAT.
WE DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE
RIGHT NOW TO HANDLE WHAT WE'VE
GOT.
AND THE PRESSURE IS THIS.
WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING NUMBER
YOUR PLAN WHICH THE COUNCIL HAS
DONE, THERE WAS AN APPLICATION
WHERE THE CURRENT PLAN SAID 12
STOREYS.
AND WHAT WE GOT AND WHAT COUNCIL
APPROVED WAS 23.
AND THE REASON THEY APPROVED
THAT WAS THEY SAID, WELL, THEY
HAVE 12 STOREYS OF DEVELOPMENT
RIGHTS, LET'S SHRINK UP THE
BUILDING AND GO TO 23 TO GET A
TALLER BUILDING INSTEAD OF A
WIDER BILLION.

Steve says IT'S ALL LEGAL.

Marianne says BUT THIS IS A LOT OF
DEVELOPMENT THIS PLAN IS A LOT
OF SO THERE WILL BE PRESSURE TO
NOT ONLY CONFORM TO WHAT'S IN
THIS PLAN BUT TO GO WELL BEYOND IT.

Steve says EQUAL TIME FOR MIKE.

Mike says THANKS, STEVE.
THE REAL QUESTION TO ME IS WHERE
PEOPLE'S TRACK RECORD ACTUALLY
IS AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE
JULY 2016 OR JULY 18th, 2016
ACTUAL VOTE, THERE WERE TWO
REPORTS ON COUNCIL.
ONE ON INTENSIFICATION AND
GROWTH WHERE BOTH CANDIDATES
THAT ARE SITTING BESIDE ME BOTH
AGREED TO AND VOTED FOR ON A
RECORDED VOTE.
AND THERE WAS ONE ON MOBILITY BE
HAD.
I HAVE NEVER BELIEVED THAT
DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON IS A
MOBILITY HUB AND BE IN THE
PLACES TO GROW PLAN THAT THE
PROVINCE HAS, IT HAS DOWNTOWN
BURLINGTON AS AN URBAN GROWTH
CENTRE.
AS MAYOR, MY GOAL IS TO GET THIS
REMOVED FROM THAT PROVINCIAL
PLAN SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO IT BE
REFLECTED IN OUR OP OR OUR
OFFICIAL PLAN.
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO KNOW THAT YOU
HAVE TO BE CONGRUENT WITH THE
PROVINCIAL PLANS.
YOU CAN'T... AND THIS CAN'T HAVE
SOMETHING SEPARATE OR DIFFERENT
THAN WHAT THE PROVINCE IS
DICTATING.
I'M OKAY WITH POPULATION TARGETS
FOR OUR COMMUNITY, BUT WE NEED
TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL WHERE THEY
GO AND HOW THEY'RE DEVELOPED.
IT SHOULD BE OUR VISION AND WITH
NOT THE PROVINCE'S.

Steve says ALL RIGHT.
LET'S UNDERSTAND, CLEARLY
MARIANNE MEED WARD BELIEVES THAT
DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON CANNOT
SUSTAIN THAT DEVELOPMENT.
WHY DO YOU THINK IT CAN?

The caption changes to "Rick Goldring, @RickGoldring."

Rick says I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK CAN.
THERE HAVE BEEN THREE PARTICULAR
BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN
APPROVED FOR 23 STOREYS,
INCLUDING THE ONE MARIANNE
MENTIONED.
I PERSONALLY OPPOSED THREE
BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON
AS WELL.
SO I BELIEVE WE NEED TO SLOW IT
DOWN.
WE NEED TO CONTROL THE PACE OF
DEVELOPMENT.
WE NEED TO GET OUR
TRANSPORTATION RIGHT BEFORE WE
ALLOW MUCH MORE DEVELOPMENT.
THE OFFICIAL PLAN WAS ADOPTED BY
COUNCIL IN APRIL.
AND IT HAS TO GO TO THE RECENT
AND IT'S AT THE REGION RIGHT
NOW.
THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING...

Steve says THIS IS HALTON REGION?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Rick says HALTON RECENT.
THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AT THE
REGION WILL HAVE TO PUT THEIR
STAMP ON IT.
BUT IN APRIL, THERE IS MUCH MORE
WORK TO DO WITH REGARD TO
TRANSPORTATION AND TRANSIT AND
WITH REGARD TO INFRASTRUCTURE
PLANNING.
I WOULD NOT ASSUME THAT ALL
THOSE 30 TALL BUILDINGS THAT
MARIANNE SEASON ELUDING TO WHICH
I DON'T BELIEVE ARE POSSIBLE IN
THE FIRST PLACE, I DON'T BELIEVE
THEY COULD HAPPEN UNDER THE
CURRENT STRUCTURE WE HAVE.

Steve says IT SEEMS YOU ARE
CONCERNED ABOUT SOMETHING THAT
AT THE END OF THE DAY COULD NOT HAPPEN.

The caption changes to "Marianne Meed Ward, @MariannMeedWard."

Marianne says WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AN
OFFICIAL PLAN BECAUSE IT SETS
THE VISION FOR WHAT WE PLAN.
AND THEN TO SAY, WELL, IT
DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT WOULD
NEVER HAPPEN.
IT'S NONSENSE AND YOU KNOW IT.
IT IS WHAT THE VISION... IT SETS
THE VISION FOR WHAT SHOULD BE
DOWNTOWN.
AND IT'S NOT RIGHT.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says OKAY.
I UNDERSTAND... AGAIN, THIS IS
BURLINGTON AND WE'RE
BROADCASTING TO ALL OF ONTARIO
RIGHT NOW SO YOU'LL FORGIVE WHAT
SEEM LIKE SIMPLISTIC QUESTIONS
BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WON'T
HAVE FOLLOWED THIS AS CAREFULLY
AS YOU GUYS HAVE OBVIOUSLY.
HAVE THERE BEEN ANY DOWNTOWN
DEVELOPMENTS THAT YOU HAVE VOTED
IN FAVOUR OF?

Marianne says ABSOLUTELY.
THERE WAS A 6-STOREY BEHIND CITY
HALL THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING
CONSTRUCTED.
THERE WAS TWO TOWNHOUSE
DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE IN MY
WARD.
THERE WAS A DEVELOPMENT FOR
ANOTHER SIX STOREYS THAT
PRESERVED A HERITAGE BUILDING.

The caption changes to "Burgeoning Brant Street."

Steve says SO YOU'RE NOT
AGAINST DEVELOPMENT.

Marianne says THAT'S THE MISNOMER SO WHEN
MIKE REFERS TO APPROVING A PLAN
FOR INTENSIFICATION DOWNTOWN.
OF COURSE.
NOBODY IS OPPOSED TO GROWTH.
NOBODY IS OPPOSED TO
INTENSIFICATION, ALTHOUGH
THERE'S MISREPRESENTATION
HAPPENING BY FOLKS AROUND THIS
TABLE ABOUT WHAT MY VIEWS ARE.
I HAVE NEVER BEEN OPPOSED TO
GROWTH.
THIS IS ALL ABOUT WHAT FITS AND
WHAT FITS TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE
AND WHAT FITS TO OUR VISIONING
AND MY VISION IS NOT 30 MORE
HIGH-RISES.
MY VISION IS A MID-RISE
CHARACTER AND WHEN THE OFFICIAL
PLAN CAME FORWARD, I PRESENTED
TWO MOTIONS AND IT WOULD HAVE
BEEN GREAT TO HAVE YOU COME.
IT WAS JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS
AGO AND YOU HAD ALREADY DECLARED
YOU WERE RUNNING BUT YOU WEREN'T
THERE FOR THOSE DISCUSSIONS.
IT WAS A 6-1 VOTE TO REMOVE THE
URBAN GROWTH CENTRE, WORK WITH
THE PROVINCE TO REMOVE THE
MOBILITY HUB DOWNTOWN.
WITH WE LOST THE ADI DECISION IN
JANUARY WHEN WE FOUND OUT, THE
REASON WAS BECAUSE THE DOWNTOWN
IS A MOBILITY BE HAD.
THAT WAS A GAME CHANGER.
THAT WAS NOT THERE TWO YEARS AGO.

Steve says OKAY.
SO LET'S...

Marianne says WE HAVE THAT AND THAT WAS VOTED AGAINST YOU WEREN'T THERE
AS PART OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

Steve says FIRST OF ALL, DO YOU
WANT TO RESPOND AND THEN I'LL
GET TO THE WHAT I WANT TO ASK.

The caption changes to "Mike Wallace, @likemike4mayor."

Mike says YOU HAVE TO BE ON COUNCIL TO
RUN FOR LEADERSHIP ON COUNCIL
WHICH I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH
AND I WASN'T AT THE MEETING
ON... WHEN SHE VOTED FOR THE
GROWTH PLAN, THE
INTENSIFICATION.
AND THE ROAD DIET IN 2016.
BUT EVERYBODY IN OUR COMMUNITY
CAN SEE WHAT GOES ON AT COUNCIL
BY VIDEO THAT HAD THE CITY PUTS
UP ON THERE.
SO I WAS WORKING.
I HAVE NO APOLOGIES THAT I HAD
TO WORK UNTIL THIS ELECTION
REALLY GOT GOING AND SO I DIDN'T
MAKE EVERY MEETING BUT I MADE A
LOT OF MEETINGS WHEN I WAS ABLE
TO MAKE IT.
THEY HAVE THEIR MEETINGS DURING
THE DAY.
OFTEN WE'RE WORKING DURING THE
DAY.
SO SHE CAN CRITICIZE FOR NOT
BEING THERE BUT IT'S NOT THAT
I'M NOT AWARE OF THE ISSUES.
I HAVE KNOCKED ON APPROXIMATELY
22,000 DOORS SINCE MID-AUGUST OR
SO.
IS MAYBE MID-JULY.
WE REALLY STARTED AFTER THE
PROVINCIAL ELECTION WAS OVER.
THE ANSWER TO ME HAS BEEN OVER
AND OVER AGAIN, WE ARE OKAY WITH
DEVELOPMENT DOWNTOWN, THE VAST
MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE OKAY WITH
SOME DEVELOPMENT DOWNTOWN BUT WE
NEED TO HAVE CONTROL OVER IT AND
WE WILL NOT HAVE CONTROL OVER IT.

Steve says SHE'S MADE IT
ABUNDANTLY CLEAR ABOUT THE
CURRENT MAYOR'S LEADERSHIP.
WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM WITH MAYOR
GOLDRING'S LEADERSHIP.

Mike says THIS ELECTION IS GETTING UGLY
BETWEEN THESE TWO AND I'D LIKE
TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO.
I THINK I'M MORE DIVISIVE.
I HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF
ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING THINGS IN
OUR COMMUNITY OVER THE 22 YEARS
OF ELECTED SERVICES.
I THINK THEY'VE BEEN VERY SLOW.
LOOK, IT TOOK THEM SIX YEARS
TO DO A STRAT TERM.
IT WAS OVER A TERM TO GET DOWN.
THESE TWO VOTED FOR T THE VISION
ON INTENSIFICATION IS RIGHT IN
THAT STRATEGIC PLAN.
BUT I THINK FOR COMMUNITIES TO
REACT, TO MOVE FORWARD MORE
QUICKLY AND MORE RESPONSIBLY,
THAT NEEDS BETTER LEADERSHIP AND
I THINK I CAN PROVIDE THAT.

Steve says YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT?

Rick says WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE
TIMES WHERE HE SHOWED GREAT
LEADERSHIP WAS WITH REGARD TO
THE OFFICIAL PLAN BECAUSE I WAS
CONCERNED ABOUT THE HIGH-RISE
NATURE OF SOME OF THE
DEVELOPMENT IN DOWNTOWN SEASON
AND IN A CERTAIN PRECINCT OF OUR
DOWNTOWN, I BROUGHT FORWARD
AMENDMENT TO LOWER THE MAXIMUM
HEIGHT FROM 17 STOREY BUILDINGS
TO 12 STOREY BUILDINGS.
I WAS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT THAT
FORWARD AND COUNCIL SUPPORTED ME
IN ORDER TO DO THAT.
AND WE WORKED TOGETHER ON A
STRATEGIC PLAN.
I BROUGHT COUNCIL TOGETHER ON A
STRATEGIC PLAN THAT WE ALL
AGREED TO SUPPORT IN APRIL OF
2016 WHICH REALLY SET OUT THE
DIRECTION IN DEVELOPING A NEW
OFFICIAL PLAN.

Steve says A LOT OF PEOPLE MOVE
TO BURLINGTON BECAUSE THEY DON'T
WANT TO LIVE IF TORONTO, RIGHT?
THEY WANT TO GET AWAY FROM...
WE'RE ACROSS THE ROAD.
WE'VE GOT 50 AND 60-STOREY
BUILDINGS AND PEOPLE GO TO
BURLINGTON BECAUSE THEY DON'T
WANT THAT.
SO THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH IS OKAY.

Marianne says WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING
FROM THE COMMUNITY.

Steve says SO MY QUESTION IS...

Rick says THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL HEARING.

Steve says IS THERE A SWEET
SPOT, THOUGH, AMONG THE THROE OF
YOU WHERE YOU CAN AGREE THAT
THIS MUCH IS TOO MUCH BUT THIS
MUCH IS OKAY.
RECOGNIZING THAT SOME
DEVELOPMENT IS NECESSARY.

Rick says I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE
THAT THE AREA IN THE DOWNTOWN
CORE, STEVE, WHICH IS THE AREA
SORT OF SOUTH OF... AND IT'S
TOUGH FOR THE PEOPLE ACROSS
ONTARIO TO GET THIS, BUT THE
AREA SORT OF SOUTH OF BALDWIN
AND VICTORIA STREET ALL THE WAY
DOWN TO THE WATERFRONT.

Steve says IF YOU DRIVE THE
QEW, THERE'S A BRANT STREET EXIT.

Rick says RIGHT.
WHEN YOU'RE TWO-THIRDS OF THE
WAY DOWN BRANT STREET, THAT'S
WHEN THE DOWNTOWN THAT PEOPLE
ARE MOST CONCERNED REACH.
AND I HAVE THAT CONCERN AS WELL.
AND WITH THAT'S THE AREA WE NEED
TO FOCUS ON AND THE DIRECTION
WITH REGARD TO THE APPROVAL OF
THE ADOPTION OF THE OFFICIAL
PLAN, WE'VE ASKED OUR STAFF TO
DO SOME THOROUGH ANALYSIS ABOUT
THE HERITAGE ASPECTS OF ALL THE
BUILDINGS AND FIGURE OUT HOW
THOSE HERITAGE ASPECTS CAN BE
INCLUDED.

Steve says OKAY.

Rick says IN THE DEVELOPMENT.
WE'RE NOT DONE YET ON THIS
OFFICIAL PLAN AND WITH REGARD TO
AN AREA-SPECIFIC PLAN SEASON AND
WITH REGARD TO A ZONING BY-LAW
WHICH REALLY WILL DETERMINE THE
MAXIMUM HEIGHT DOES WITH
DENSITIES IN THESE AREAS.

Steve says LET ME TRY THIS WITH
MARIANNE MEED WARD.
ABOUT 420 MUNICIPALITIES IN THE
PROVINCE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE
THESE PROBLEMS.

Mike says YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

Steve says LOTS OF PLACES WANT
THE DEVELOPMENT THAT SEEMS TO BE
COMING TO BURLINGTON ALMOST
WITHOUT TRYING.
SO THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES HOW
MUCH IS OKAY FOR YOU.
HOW MUCH DEVELOPMENT IS OKAY FOR
YOU?
ANY?

Marianne says ABSOLUTELY.
NO, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR.
AND I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT A
STRATEGIC PLAN IS NOT THE SAME
AS AN OFFICIAL PLAN.
THE STRATEGIC PLAN DID NOT
INCLUDE PERMISSION FOR 30 MORE
HIGH-RISES DOWNTOWN.
IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.
WHAT WE SAID IS GENERALLY WHERE
DO WE WANT TO SEE GROWTH.
WE WANT TO SEE THEM AROUND THE
GO STATIONS, YOU CAN PUT SOME
HIGH-RISES THERE, THERE'S A
DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING IN MY WAR-

Steve says HOW ARE YOU DEFINING
HIGH-RISE.

Marianne says IN THAT CASE, IT'S 24 STOREYS.

Steve says AND YOU'RE OKAY WITH
THAT?

Marianne says AT THE GO STATION WHERE
THERE'S FIVE LANES OF TRAFFIC
AROUND IT, IT THERE'S MULTIPLE
BUS ROUTES.

Steve says WHAT ABOUT DOWNTOWN?

Marianne says 4 TO 8 STOREYS WHICH IS THE
MID-RISE CHARACTER AND THE
OFFICIAL PLAN RIGHT OUT OF THE
GATE TAKES FROM YOU 4 TO 12.
THREE TIMES HIGHER.
AND THERE'S NO NEED FOR THAT
BECAUSE WE ARE MEETING ALL OF
OUR GROWTH TARGETS NOT ONLY
ACROSS THE CITY BUT WE'RE
MEETING IT IN THE DOWNTOWN.
AND OUR STAFF HAVE TOLD US THAT.
SO A MID-RISE CHARACTER DOWNTOWN
IS COMPLETELY SUFFICIENT.

Steve says IF YOU WENT HIGHER,
THOUGH, YOU WOULD GET MORE TAX REVENUE.

Marianne says SO THE TAX REVENUE DOESN'T PAY FOR ITSELF.
I HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AT
DOORS AND TOWNHALLS ACROSS THE
CITY.
GROWTH PAYS FOR ROUGHLY 80 percent OF
THE COST OF A NEW COMMUNITY.
SO I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
WHEN THE CITY BUILT ALTON
COMMUNITY IN THE NORTH, VERY
INTENSIFIED DEVELOPMENT, LOTS OF
NEW TAXPAYERS.
THE DAY WE OPENED THAT LIBRARY,
EVERYBODY'S TAXES IN THE CITY
WENT UP HALF A PERCENT TO HIRE
THE LIBRARIANS TO WORK THAT
LIBRARY.
GROWTH NEVER COVERS 100 percent OF
COSTS.
YOU HAVE TO MANAGE IT WELL.

Steve says LET'S GET FEEDBACK
ON THAT.
MIKE WALLACE, IS THAT YOUR VIEW?

Mike says SO THE QUESTION FOR ME IS I
THINK WE SHOULD HAVE GROWTH IN
BURLINGTON.
WE NEED GROWTH IN BURLINGTON.
IN MY VIEW, IT DOES CONTROL...
IF WE HAD NO GROWTH... YOU GO TO
COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE NO GROWTH,
THE PRESSURE ON THEIR TAX BASIN
CREASING AND INCREASING EVERY
YEAR SO NEW MONEY DOES HELP
OFFSET THE COST FOR THE CURRENT
TAXPAYER.
I BELIEVE IN THE MOBILITY HUBS
AROUND THE GO STATIONS.
I'VE SAID THAT FROM THE
BEGINNING.
I THINK THERE'S OTHER
OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO GROW AS
A COMMUNITY.
I'VE HAD SUGGESTIONS ABOUT A
LIBERTY VILLAGE WEST FOR
BURLINGTON AND A PART OF TOWN
THAT IS UNDEVELOPED AT THIS
PARTICULAR MOMENT.
I HAVE OTHER CONCEPTS OF WHERE
WE CAN DO.
THIS FOR DOWNTOWN, IT DOES NEED
SOME REDEVELOPMENT, THERE'S NO
DOUBT ABOUT IT.
I ACTUALLY LIKE THE SIZE OF THE
BUILDINGS THAT ARE ALONG
LAKESHORE NOW, WHETHER IT'S
THE BAXTER, A NUMBER OF CONDO
BUILDINGS.
THAT'S THE KIND OF FEEL AND SIZE
THAT I THINK AND THE STYLE WITH
THE SETBACKS AND THE RETAIL AT
THE FRONT AND THE TOWER
PUSH-BACK ON THE PODIUM.
THAT IS THE KIND OF FEEL I THINK
THAT MOST PEOPLE IN BURLINGTON
ARE LOOKING FOR.

Steve says LET ME GET YOUR VIEW.

Rick says SO FIRST OF ALL, STEVE,
BURLINGTON IS IN A VERY
FORTUNATE POSITIONING THAT WE
DON'T NEED TO PLAN.
IT JUST COMES AND WE BUILD THE
RIGHT DEVELOPMENT.
SO NEVER IN THE BACK OF MY MIND
ARE WE MAKING A DECISION FOR
MORE TAX REVENUE.
WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS
LIKE THAT.
MARIANNE HAS SAID MANY TIMES
THAT WE'VE ALREADY MET OUR 2031
TARGETS IN PLACES TO GROW AND
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE BUT WE
NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS
MINIMUM TARGETS AND THE PROVINCE
STILL DEMANDS THAT YOU CONTINUE
TO GROW EVEN INSPECT YOU'VE MET
YOUR PROVINCIAL TARGETS.

Steve says THAT TAKES ME NICELY
TO THE NEXT THING.
ONE OF YOUR SOLUTIONS TO FIGURE
OUT HOW TO GET MORE GROWTH IS T,
MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS PART OF
THE PROVINCE, WATERDOWN IS PART
OF HAMILTON BUT IT'S KIND OF...
IT'S JUST AS CLOSE TO
BURLINGTON, MAYBE EVEN LOGICALLY
MORE CLOSER TO BURLINGTON THAN
IT IS HAMILTON BUT IT'S PART OF
HAMILTON RIGHT NOW.
YOU WENT TO QUEEN'S PARK AND
SAID BURLINGTON OUGHT TO HAVE
WATERDOWN.
WATERDOWN MAKES SENSE TO BE WITH
US.
YOU DIDN'T GIVE THE MAYOR OF
HAMILTON A HEADS UP ON ALL THAT
WHICH HE WASN'T ALL THAT HAPPY
ABOUT.

The caption changes to "We want waterdown."

Rick says 18 YEARS AGO, THIS WAS
DISCUSSED AND A REFERENDUM TOOK
PLACE 18 YEARS AGO AND 70 percent OF
WATERDOWN RESIDENTS SAID THEY
SHOULD BE PART OF BURLINGTON.
I HEAR FROM SO MANY PEOPLE THAT
THEIR NATURAL CONNECTION IS WITH
BURLINGTON, IT'S NOT WITH
CHATHAM-KENT THEIR CHILDREN ARE
IN STRICT... IT'S NOT WITH
HAMILTON.
THEIR CHILDREN ARE IN
EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES WITH
BURLINGTON, NOT HAMILTON.
AND WE ARE GETTING 95 percent OF THE
COST TO WIDEN A ROAD IS COMING
FROM THE CITY OF HAMILTON AND
DEVELOPMENT CHARGES.

Steve says IS THE PROVINCE
GOING TO LET YOU DO IT?

Rick says WITH REGARD TO THE POTENTIAL
OF WATERDOWN?
I FLOATED THE ISSUE.
I ALSO FLOATED THE ISSUE FOR THE
TRANSPORTATION MORE EFFECTIVELY
WITH WATERDOWN BEING PART OF
BURLINGTON, BUT AFTER THE
MUNICIPAL ELECTION, THE MINISTER
OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOUSING
IS GOING TO BE BUSY LOOKING AT
THE GOVERNANCE ACROSS THE
PROVINCE, LOOKING AT REGIONAL
GOVERNMENT SO THE IDEA OF
CHANGING BOUNDARIES COMING UP IN
THE NEXT TERM OF THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT IS NOT PROBABLE.
THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THE
GOVERNMENT WOULD CREATE MORE
NATURAL CONNECTIONS.

Mike says I WAS ON COUNCIL, STEVE, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT AMALGAMATION.
THAT IS WHEN I WAS SERVING
BURLINGTON AS COUNCILLOR FOR
WARD 5.
I WAS CLEAR.
THAT DECISION WAS MADE 18 YEARS
AGO THAT THAT WAS NOT GOING
TO HAPPEN.
A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
INVESTMENT AND GROWTH HAS
HAPPENED IN THE WATERDOWN AREA
AND BY DEVELOPMENT CHARGES THAT
HAVE BEEN ABSORBED BY HAMILTON
AND IMPLEMENTED IN THAT AREA.
WHAT THIS IS DEFINITELY
FLOATING, THERE WAS NO... THE
MAYOR DID NO DUE DILIGENCE IN
LETTING THE PUBLIC KNOW.
PEOPLE OF BURLINGTON, WHETHER IT
WAS GOING TO COST THEM MONEY IN
EARLY ITS IT OF THEIR TAXES,
WHETHER ABSORBING ANOTHER
COMMUNITY OR NOT WOULD HELP OR
HURT FROM US A FINANCIAL
PERSPECTIVE.
THERE WAS NO DUE DILIGENCE DONE
ON IT AT ALL.
IN DISCUSSION WITH HIS
NEIGHBOUR, HAMILTON, AND I THINK
THERE'S OTHER HIGHER PRIORITY
ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH
AS A COUNCIL, TO DEAL WITH THE
ISSUES THAT ARE FACING
BURLINGTON AND IN CONNECTION
WITH OUR CLOSES AND OUR FRIENDS
AND OUR NEIGHBOURS IN HAMILTON,
THERE ARE ISSUES WITH THE WATER
LOTS, THERE'S ISSUES WITH THE A
SAL PARK AND WHO OWNS THAT.

Steve says I'M GOING TO JUMP IN
HERE BECAUSE WE ARE RUNNING
SHORT ON TIME.
MARIANNE?

Marianne says WELL, THIS IS RECKLESS AND
NOT COLLABORATIVE AND IT'S NOT
THE KIND OF STABLE LEADERSHIP
THAT WE NEED TO JUST THROW THAT
IDEA OUT THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF
AN ELECTION.
AND IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
WE WOULD GET THE 23 MILLION dollar BILL FOR PAYING FOR THE WIDENING
OF WATERDOWN ROAD IF THAT ROAD
NOW BELONGS TO US.
SO IT'S NOT A GOOD DEAL FOR
CONSTITUENTS BUT THE REASON THAT
THAT IDEA WAS FLOATED WAS TO
TAKE PRESSURE OFF DOWNTOWN
DEVELOPMENT.
IF WE AS A COUNCIL WANT TO TAKE
PRESSURE OFF OF DEVELOPMENT
DOWNTOWN, WE DON'T ANNEX
ANOTHER COMMUNITY.
WE ELECT A NEW MAYOR AND COUNCIL
MEMBERS WHO WILL STOP VOTING FOR
OVERDEVELOPMENT DOWNTOWN.
SO THAT'S THE KEY IN THIS
ELECTION.
AND THE OTHER THING IS THIS WAS
FLOATED AT A TIME WHEN WE ARE
TRYING TO NEGOTIATE WITH
HAMILTON TO GET BACK INTO OUR
BORDERS WITH LaSALLE PARK,
WHICH IS OWNED BY HAMILTON.
YOU DON'T START GRABBING THEIR
LAND WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO BITE
LAM THAT THEY OWN TO GIVE OUR
RESIDENTIAL PARKS.

Steve says WOULD YOU GRAND THAT
THE PROVINCE HAS BEEN NOT
EXACTLY... IT'S THE WORST KEPT
SECRET IN TOWN THAT AMALGAMATION
IS COMING.
SO AS THE MAYOR SAYS, IT'S NOT
THE CRAZIEST IDEA THAT THIS WILL HAPPEN.

Marianne says IT IS A CRAZY IDEA.
IT IS NOT GOOD FOR BURLINGTON
AND IT'S NOT GOOD FOR HAMILTON.
I GOT AN E-MAIL FROM SOMEBODY IN
WATERDOWN SAYING YOUR MAYOR HAS
JUST REOPENED 20, YOU KNOW,
YEARS OF WOUNDS THAT WE'RE
TRYING TO HEAL AND COME AS
COMMUNITY AND BE PART OF HAMILTON.
THAT IS RECKLESS.

Mike says SO I THINK THE MAYOR OPENED A PANDORA'S BOX.
MY CONCERN FOR BURLINGTON IS THIS.
THAT IF YOU'RE RIGHT AND THERE
IS GOING TO BE A DISCUSSION AND
A REVIEW OF BOUNDARIES OF
COMMUNITIES AND WHAT
MUNICIPALITIES SHOULD LOOK LIKE,
I THINK I'M CONCERNED THAT THAT
OPENS THE PANDORA'S BOX THAT
HAMILTON... THAT THE MINISTER OF
MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS SAYS WHY DON'T
WE JUST AMALGAMATE BURLINGTON
AND HAMILTON TOGETHER.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE BAD FOR
BURLINGTON.
SO FLOATING THIS IDEA AT THIS
PARTICULAR TIME I THINK WAS
INAPPROPRIATE.

Steve says LAST WORD ON THIS TO
THE MAYOR.

Rick says I THINK IT WAS AN APPROPRIATE
TIME TO FLOAT THE IDEA.
AGAIN, I FLOATED THE IDEA.
THERE'S OBVIOUSLY GOT TO BE A
LOT OF ANALYSIS, A LOT OF
DISCUSSION WITH HAMILTON AND
WITH WATERDOWN AND THE MINISTRY
OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS IN HOUSING.
THIS WAS THE TIME TO RAISE IT
BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME
SIGNIFICANT CHANGES AROUND THE
STRUCTURE OF MUNICIPALITIES
GOING FORWARD.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Steve says OKAY.
WE'VE GOT A FEW MINUTES LEFT
HERE AND I WANT TO TOUCH ON ONE
THING.
IF THIS IS BURLINGTON, ONTARIO,
GANG, THIS IS NOT COOK COUNTY,
CHICAGO, AND YET I HAVE BEEN
HEARING AND I'VE BEEN SEEING
SOME REALLY UGLY STUFF OUT
THERE.
WHAT'S GOING ON?
YOU FIRST.

Marianne says WELL, THANK YOU.
BECAUSE I'VE BEEN THE TARGET.
IT'S REALLY BEEN SINGULARLY MY
CANDIDACY AND THAT HAS BEEN
TARGETING BY AN ANONYMOUS SURVEY
IN AUGUST-SEPTEMBER BY CAMPAIGN
RESEARCH, A VERY HIGH POWERED
FIRM IN TORONTO WHO HAS HAD
THEIR HANDS SLAPPED BEFORE BY
INTERFERING IN OTHER ELECTIONS.
I WAS THE TARGET OF THAT.
MORE RECENTLY, WE HAVE A FLYER
BEING DELIVERED BY A CAN'T THAT
INCLUDES SLANDEROUS STATEMENTS
ABOUT ME AND MY CHARACTER
THEY'RE ARE FRANKLY SEXIST WHILE
FAVOURABLY TALKING ABOUT THE
CURRENT MAYOR AND THAT'S BEEN
DISTRIBUTED IN HOUSEHOLDS ACROSS
THE CITY.
WE HAVE FOUR NUMBERED COMPANIES
THAT WE... WE'VE LOOKED INTO TO
SEE WHO OWNS THIS END, BUT
THEY'RE THIRD PARTY ADVERTISER.
THEY ARE RUNNING HEINOUS
FACEBOOK VIDEOS, AGAIN, I AM THE
TARGET.
SO ASK YOURSELVES WHY.
I'M RUNNING ON A PLATFORM OF
REASONABLE GROWTH, NOT
OVERDEVELOPMENT.
IT'S BEEN AN FREE FOR ALL FOR
DEVELOPMENT AND...

Steve says WE'RE DOWN TO OUR
LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES.

Rick says I HAVE NOT BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF
ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT MARIANNE
HAS RAISED, THE POLLING, THE
BROCHURE THAT WAS PRODUCED.

Steve says YOU'RE NOT DOING IT?

Rick says I'M DEFINITELY NOT DOING IT.
THE THIRD PARTY ADVERTISING
UNFORTUNATELY HAS BEEN AROUND AT
THE PROVINCIAL AND FEDERAL
LEVELS FOR SOME TIME AND THAT'S
BEEN ALL LEGITIMIZED THROUGH THE
NEW MUNICIPAL ELECTION ACT AND
I'M NOT SUPPORTIVE OF THAT
APPROACH AT ALL.
I'M VERY HAPPY WITH THE CAMPAIGN
THAT I CAN RUN BASED ON MY TRACK
RECORD AND BASED ON MY INTEGRITY
AND BASED ON THE VOLUNTEERS AND
THE SUPPORT I HAVE.
I DON'T APPRECIATE ANY OF THIS
HAPPENING AND I RELEASED A VIDEO
ON MY FACEBOOK FEED YESTERDAY
STATING THAT.

Steve says MIKE WALLACE, LAST
WORD TO YOU.

Mike says OF COURSE THAT IS, STEVE.
I DON'T THINK IT HAS ANY PLACE
AT ANY LEVEL TO BE PERFECTLY
HONEST WITH YOU.
I'VE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME.
22 YEARS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
MY NAME HAS BEEN ON THE BALLOT
IN BURLINGTON TEN TIMES IN THE
LAST COUPLE OF DECADES AND I
HAVE HAD NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING, MYSELF, MY TEAM,
NOTHING TO DOD WITH ANY OF THE
ISSUES THAT HAVE COME AFFORD IN
TERMS OF THE... COME FORWARD IN
TERMS OF THE I'LL CALL IT
AGGRESSIVE MESSAGING ABOUT MY
OPPONENTS AND I THINK IT SHOULD
BE... YOU SHOULD BE VOTING ON
PEOPLE'S PLATFORM, WHAT THEY
THINK THEY HAVE DONE IN THE PAST
FOR OUR COMMUNITY, WHAT WE'RE
PROMISING TO DO IN THE FUTURE
FOR THIS COMMUNITY.
AND IT'S ABOUT WHO YOU TRUST TO
ACTUALLY DELIVER AND IT'S NOT
REALLY... I DON'T THINK IT ADDS
ANYTHING TO THE DISCOURSE OF WHY
PEOPLE GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS
OR WHY PEOPLE EVEN VOTE FOR
POLITICS.
I THINK IT'S A DISCOURAGEMENT,
NOT AN ENCOURAGEMENT.

The caption changes to "Producer: Steve Paikin, @spaikin; Producer: Nam Kiwanuka, @namshine."

Steve says WELL, I CAN
CERTAINLY THANK THE THREE OF YOU
FOR HAVING A VERY CIVILIZED
DISCUSSION HERE ON TVO TONIGHT
WHICH IS WHAT WE LIKE TO DO.
RICK GOLDRING, MARIANNE MEED
WARD, MIKE WALLACE, ALL OF WHOM
ARE SEEKING YOUR VOTE ON THE
22nd FOR THE NEXT MAYOR OF
BURLINGTON. THANKS SO MUCH.

Rick says THANKS, STEVE.

Marianne says Thank you.

Mike says THANKS STEVE FOR HAVING US.

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