Transcript: A Good Night's Sleep | Nov 02, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, gray shirt, checkered purple tie, and a red poppy pin.

A caption on screen reads "A good night's sleep."

Steve says IT'S PROBABLY AS IMPORTANT
FOR HUMANS AS FOOD AND WATER,
BUT MUCH LESS IS KNOWN ABOUT
SLEEP THAN ABOUT NUTRITION.
THAT'S CHANGING WITH SIGNIFICANT
NEW RESEARCH BEING DONE AROUND
THE WORLD AND RIGHT HERE IN
CANADA.
JOINING US NOW TO BRING US UP TO
DATE ON THE SCIENCE OF GETTING A
GOOD NIGHT'S REST:
DR. ADRIAN OWEN, CANADA
EXCELLENCE RESEARCH CHAIR IN
COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE AND
IMAGING AT THE BRAIN AND MIND
INSTITUTE AT WESTERN UNIVERSITY
IN LONDON...

Adrian is in his fifties, with receding blond hair and a stubble. He's wearing a brown tweed suit, black sweater, white shirt, and a red poppy pin.

Steve continues AND JOHN PEEVER, VICE PRESIDENT
OF RESEARCH AT THE CANADIAN
SLEEP SOCIETY.

John is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a gray suit, checkered purple shirt, and a red poppy pin.

Steve continues AND IT'S GOOD TO WELCOME BOTH OF
YOU GENTLEMEN BACK TO TVO
TONIGHT FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
I FIGURE WE SHOULD SET THIS UP
WITH A LITTLE CLIP OFF THE TOP
TO GIVE US SOME SENSE ABOUT THE
RESEARCH THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT
NOW INTO THIS AREA.
SHELDON, GO.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "Results from the world's largest sleep study."
In the clip, Adrian sits in an office and talks.

A caption reads "Adrian M. Owen. Professor in Cognitive Neuroscience and Imaging."

Adrian says WE REALLY WANT TO CAPTURE THE
SLEEPING HABITS OF PEOPLE ACROSS
THE ENTIRE GLOBE, SO OBVIOUSLY
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY SMALLER
STUDIES OF PEOPLE IN
LABORATORIES, BUT WE WANTED TO
FIND OUT WHAT SLEEP IS LIKE IN
THE REAL WORLD, HOW DO REAL
PEOPLE SLEEP, HOW MUCH SLEEP DO
THEY GET AND WHAT EFFECT IS IT
HAVING ON THEIR BRAIN.

A man in his thirties appears. He has short brown hair and a stubble.

A caption reads "Conor Wild. Research Associate."

He says WE HAD 44,000 PEOPLE
VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME TO
PARTICIPATE IN OUR STUDY, WHICH
WAS REALLY QUITE AMAZING.

In a lab, Adrian and Conor read data from a computer screen.

Adrian says PEOPLE GAVE US A LOT OF
INFORMATION ABOUT THEMSELVES.
WE HAD A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE
QUESTIONNAIRE.
THEY TOLD US THINGS LIKE WHAT
MEDICATIONS THEY WERE ON, HOW
OLD THEY WERE, WHERE THEY WERE,
WHAT SORT OF EDUCATION THEY
RECEIVED.
BECAUSE THESE ALSO ARE FACTORS
THAT MIGHT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO
SOME OF THE RESULTS.

The clip ends.

Steve says OKAY, BY THE TIME THAT
TAPING IT SAID 44,000 PEOPLE
PARTICIPATING IN THE SURVEY.
WHAT DID YOU EVENTUALLY GET UP TO?

The caption changes to "Adrian Owen. The brain and mind institute."
Then, it changes again to "The world's biggest study."

Adrian says 10,000 EVENTUALLY, 10,000 IS
EVERYTHING THAT WE WANTED THEM
TO DO.
WE STARTED WITH 44,000 PEOPLE
THAT SAID THEY WERE INTERESTED
IN PARTICIPATING, BUT OF COURSE
SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T COMPLETE
EVERYTHING.
WE NEEDED AN HOUR OF EVERYBODY'S
TIME, SO EVENTUALLY IT GOT DOWN
TO ALMOST 11,000, ACTUALLY.

Steve says AND THAT IS AN
ADEQUATE NUMBER TO GAIN A
GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT
YOU WANTED TO FIND OUT?

Adrian says I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD
NUMBER.
WHAT WE WERE REALLY INTERESTED
IN WAS BEING ABLE TO CARVE THE
DATA UP INTO HOW IT MIGHT CHANGE
OVER THE AGE SPAN, HOW DIFFERENT
PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF
HABITS MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY
SLEEP, SO GETTING THAT SORT OF
NUMBER, GETTING ALMOST 11,000
PEOPLE ALLOWED US TO DO JUST
THAT.

Steve says AND YOU DID GET A GOOD
DEMOGRAPHIC IN TERMS OF MEN
VERSUS WOMEN AND OLD VERSUS
YOUNG AND ALL THAT?

Adrian says WE DID.
WE GOOD VERY GOOD TAKE-UP REALLY
FROM PEOPLE BETWEEN ABOUT 18
YEARS OF AGE AND 100 YEARS OF
AGE.
THERE WAS A VERY, VERY GOOD
SPREAD OF PEOPLE.

Steve says AND WHAT DID YOU HAVE
THEM DO?

Adrian says SO WE GOT THEM TO LOG IN AND TELL US A BIT ABOUT THEMSELVES,
MOSTLY ABOUT THEIR SLEEPING HABITS.
WE AREN'T REALLY INTERESTED IN A
SINGLE NIGHT WITH NO SLEEP.
WE'RE INTERESTED IN SLEEPING
HABITS AND HOW MUCH SLEEP DO YOU
GENERALLY GET AND WHAT EFFECT
DOES IT HAVE ON YOUR BRAIN OR
YOUR COGNITIVE FUNCTION.
SO BEING ASKED AN EXTENSIVE
QUESTIONNAIRE, TOLD US ABOUT
THAT AND LINKED SOME COGNITIVE
TESTS THAT LOOKED AT THINGS LIKE
THEIR DECISION MAKING ABILITY,
THEIR REASONING, THEIR
SHORT-TERM MEMORY AND THEIR
ATTENTION SPAN.
WE WERE REALLY INTERESTED IN
UNDERSTANDING HOW THE AMOUNT OF
SLEEP THAT YOU GENERALLY GET
AFFECTS YOUR PERFORMANCE ON
THESE COGNITIVE TASKS.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE
VALUE IN THAT WORK?

The caption changes to "John Peever. Canadian Sleep Society."

John says OH, THIS STUDY BRINGS AN
ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION
TO THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY.
I MEAN, I THINK ADRIAN WAS VERY
HUMBLED, BUT 10,000 PEOPLE IS
REALLY A WORLD RECORD IN TERMS
OF HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
STUDIED TO LOOK AT THEIR SORT OF
NATIVE OR NATURAL SLEEP AMOUNTS.
SO IT'S REALLY A TOUR DE FORCE
IN THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION
THAT WAS GENERATED, AND THE REAL
VALUE OF IT IS BECAUSE SO MANY
PEOPLE WERE SORT OF ASKED ABOUT
WHAT... HOW DO YOU SLEEP, HOW
MUCH DO YOU SLEEP, AND THEN DO
YOU PERFORM COGNITIVELY BASED ON
THAT AMOUNT IS REALLY IMPORTANT,
AND I THINK THAT THE SINGLE-MOST
IMPORTANT THING, AT LEAST FROM
MY PERSPECTIVE WAS, THAT IT CAME
UP WITH JUST UNDER EIGHT HOURS,
BETWEEN 7 TO 8 HOURS SEEMS TO BE
THE OPTIMAL AMOUNT OF SLEEP
REPORTED THAT PEOPLE DID BEST ON
THESE TYPES OF COGNITIVE AND
REASONING TYPE OF TESTS THAT
THEY WERE ASKED TO DO, AND THIS
IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE
SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY NEEDS HARD,
COLD DATA TO BE ABLE TO TELL
YOUR AUDIENCE HOW MUCH SLEEP
THEY NEED, AND THIS STUDY
CONTRIBUTES ENORMOUSLY IN THAT REGARD.

Steve says SO SEVEN TO EIGHT
HOURS PER NIGHT IS OPTIMAL.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY GET
THAT, IN YOUR VIEW?

The caption changes to "What we need, what we get."

Adrian says ALMOST NONE.
IN FACT, WE FOUND ON AVERAGE
PEOPLE WERE GETTING ABOUT 6.4
HOURS SLEEP.
OVER HALF THE SAMPLE WERE
GETTING LESS THAN THAT.
SO YOU KNOW, BASICALLY PEOPLE
ARE GETTING MORE THAN AN HOUR'S
LESS SLEEP THAN THEY SHOULD BE
GETTING IF THEY REALLY WANT TO
BE PERFORMING AT THEIR PEAK.

Steve says SO THAT MEANS MORE
THAN SEVEN HOURS OVER THE COURSE
OF A WEEK, MORE THAN 30 HOURS
LESS SLEEP THAN THEY NEED OVER
THE COURSE OF A MONTH.
KEEP DOING THE MATH OVER THE
COURSE OF THE YEAR, THE
IMPLICATIONS OF ALL OF THAT ARE
WHAT?

Adrian says WELL, THEY'RE HUGE.
I MEAN, WE SAID IN THE PAPER
THAT EVEN IN CANADA THE LOSS DUE
TO PEOPLE LOSING SLEEP, PEOPLE
LOSING WORK TIME, TURNING UP
LATE FOR WORK RUNS TO BILLIONS,
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN CANADA
ALONE.
IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.
MANY PEOPLE, AND THIS IS ONE OF
THE REASONS WE GET INTO THIS
STUDY, IS MANY PEOPLE I THINK
SEE IT AS A MATTER OF PRIDE.
YOU KNOW, I CAN GET BY ON FOUR
HOURS SLEEP, AND THE TRUTH IS
THEY CAN'T.
THEY MIGHT THINK THEY CAN, BUT
ACTUALLY THEY CAN'T.

Steve says HOW ABOUT ACCIDENTS ON
HIGHWAYS?
HOW ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS WITH
OTHER PEOPLE?
BUILD IT OUT FOR ME.
WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF ALL
OF US GETTING LESS SLEEP THAN WE NEED?

John says ADRIAN SAID IT VERY WELL.
YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT WE NEED TO SOCIALLY
CHANGE IS THE PERCEPTION THAT
YOU DON'T NEED SLEEP TO DO A
GOOD JOB IN YOUR WORLD.
I THINK PRIDE, A LOT OF MY
COLLEAGUES WILL SORT OF BOAST
ALMOST THAT, OH, I'VE BEEN
WORKING SO HARD I HAVEN'T SLEPT,
YOU KNOW.
SLEEP ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT.
AND THE NATIONAL SLEEP
FOUNDATION IN THE U.S. HAS THIS
BEAUTIFUL PHRASE THAT I'VE
PLAGIARIZED, AND THAT IS "SLEEP
IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS DIET AND
EXERCISE, ONLY EASIER."
AND I THINK THIS IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT THING FOR PEOPLE TO
HEAR.
YOU GO TO THE DOCTOR.
THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT TO
EAT WELL.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN
WEIGHT.
YOU HAVE TO... AND IN ORDER TO
DO ALL THOSE THINGS TO KEEP
HEALTHY YOU NEED TO EXERCISE AND
HAVE A HEALTHY DIET.
BUT ONLY IN THE LAST, YOU KNOW,
FIVE YEARS HAS SLEEP REALLY COME
INTO THAT EQUATION, THAT IT
REALLY IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF
YOUR OVERALL HEALTH AND
WELL-BEING, BOTH MENTALLY AND
PHYSICALLY.

Steve says IT'S NOT JUST A
NUMBER, THOUGH, RIGHT?
IT'S A PERCEPTION OF HOW WELL WE
SLEEP THAT MATTERS AS WELL?
HELP US UNDERSTAND THAT.

John says SO I THINK FOR THE MOST PART
PEOPLE REALLY QUITE FIRMLY
UNDERSTAND HOW THEY SLEEP.
SO YOU, I'M SURE, HAVE HAD A BAD
NIGHT OF SLEEP AND YOU'VE
UNDERSTOOD YOU HAD A BAD NIGHT
OF SLEEP.
YOU'VE HAD A GOOD NIGHT OF SLEEP
AND YOU'VE UNDERSTOOD IT, BUT
THERE'S A REALLY CURIOUS
BIOLOGICAL PHENOMENA, AND THOSE
ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SLEEP STATE
MISPERCEPTION, AND THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO SLEEP INCREDIBLY WELL
BUT THEY WILL ACTUALLY GO TO SEE
THEIR PHYSICIAN, THEY'LL HAVE A
SLEEP STUDY BECAUSE THEY SAY
THEY CANNOT SLEEP.
AND THEN THEY GO IN TO SEE A
SLEEP SPECIALIST.
THEY HOOK THEM UP TO RECORD
BRAIN ACTIVITY, WHICH IS OUR
BEST INDEX OF HOW YOU'RE
SLEEPING, AND LO AND BEHOLD, THE
STUDY COMES BACK, YOU SLEPT
PERFECTLY, BEAUTIFUL EIGHT HOURS
OF NORMAL SLEEP.
THAT PATIENT WILL TELL YOU: I
DID NOT SLEEP ALL NIGHT.
AND THIS IS REALLY REMARKABLE
PHENOMENA.

Steve says WHY IS THIS MISMATCH
THERE?

John says THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THE BEST ANSWER THAT WE REALLY
HAVE AT THE MOMENT IS, AGAIN, IF
YOU USE THESE ELECTRICAL TOOLS
TO RECORD BRAIN ACTIVITY, THERE
ARE DIFFERENT WAVES OF ACTIVITY
PRODUCED BY THE SLEEPING BRAIN
AND THE WAKING BRAIN, AND PEOPLE
WITH THIS PERCEPTION THAT THEY
DON'T SLEEP WELL SEEM TO HAVE
MORE FREQUENCIES OF WAVES THAT
ARE WAKE-LIKE IN NATURE, AND SO
IT COULD BE JUST THIS BAND OF
BRAIN ACTIVITY SEEMS TO GIVE
THEM THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE
HAVING A POOR NIGHT OF SLEEP.
BUT OVERALL, EVERYTHING ELSE
LOOKS HEALTHY AND NORMAL.

Steve says HUH. IN AN ARTICLE
COVERING THE RESULTS OF YOUR
STUDY WE LEARNED THAT...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "The cost of lost sleep." The quote reads "It has been estimated that the productivity lost annually due to chronic partial SD, sleep deprivation, costs an estimated 21.4 billion dollars in Canada alone."
Quoted from Conor J. Wild, et. al., Sleep. 2018.

Steve says LET'S UNPACK THAT A BIT.
CHRONIC PARTIAL SLEEP
DEPRAVATION IS WHAT?

The caption changes to "Adrian Owen. Western University."
Then, it changes again to "Feeling deprived."

Adrian says SO THAT'S WHAT WE WERE REALLY
INTERESTED IN, WHICH IS HOW
PEOPLE'S LACK OF SLEEP OVER A
PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME MIGHT
AFFECT THEIR BRAIN FUNCTION OR
THEIR COGNITION.
WE'VE ALL HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF
GOING OUT AND MAYBE GETTING
THREE OR FOUR HOURS SLEEP AND
BEING VERY, VERY GROGGY THE NEXT
DAY.
THAT WAS LESS INTERESTING TO US
THAN HOW IS IT THAT ALL THESE
PEOPLE THAT ARE GETTING ABOUT
MAYBE SIX HOURS SLEEP WHEN WE
NOW KNOW THAT SEVEN TO EIGHT IS
WHAT THEY SHOULD BE GETTING, SO
IT'S CHRONIC PARTIAL SLEEP
DEPRAVATION, AND FOR MANY
PEOPLE, IN FACT FOR MORE THAN
HALF OUR SAMPLE, THAT'S A NORMAL
WAY OF LIFE.
AND THESE PEOPLE AREN'T
ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THIS IS NOT
ENOUGH SLEEP.
I'M NOT GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP,
AND PERHAPS THEY DON'T KNOW THE
EFFECTS THAT IT'S HAVING ON
THEIR BRAIN AND THEIR COGNITIVE
FUNCTION THE NEXT DAY.
BECAUSE SOME OF THESE EFFECTS
ARE RATHER SUBTLE AND NOT AT ALL
OBVIOUS.

Steve says CAN YOU GO INTO SOME
OF WHAT MAKES UP A 21.4 BILLION dollar SLEEP DEFICIT, IF YOU LIKE, IN THE COUNTRY?

Adrian says ACTUALLY, MY GUESS IS THAT'S
PROBABLY AN UNDERESTIMATE
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY
THESE ARE GUESSES AND PEOPLE
PULL TOGETHER A LOT OF
INFORMATION TO TRY AND COME UP
WITH NUMBERS LIKE THIS.
AND YOU KNOW, IN THAT CASE IT
WAS BASICALLY BASED ON, YOU
KNOW, LOSS OF EARNINGS, LOSS OF
REVENUE, PEOPLE NOT TURNING UP
TO THINGS.
WHAT WE REVEALED WITH OUR STUDY
IS THERE'S A LOT OF SUBTLE
COGNITIVE DEFICITS, GOING ALONG
WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FEELING
LIKE THEY ARE STAYING UP ALL
NIGHT, JUST NOT GETTING QUITE
ENOUGH SLEEP TO BE OPERATING AT
THEIR ABSOLUTE OPTIMUM, AND THAT
EFFECT I THINK IS PROBABLY
GROSSLY UNDERESTIMATED, BECAUSE
HOW CAN WE REALLY KNOW WHAT
EFFECT THIS IS HAVING?

Steve says WE COULD WOULD, I
THINK, JOHN, BE CONCERNED IF
AIRLINE PILOTS OR OFFICERS WERE
NOT GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP.
WE GET THAT.
CAN YOU PUT IN DEMOGRAPHIC
TERMS, THOUGH, WHO THE SORT OF
MOST EGREGIOUS OFFENDERS ARE IN
SOCIETY OF THOSE NOT GETTING
ENOUGH SLEEP?

The caption changes to "John Peever. University of Toronto."

John says I DON'T THINK THERE'S
ADEQUATE DATA AT THE MOMENT TO
IDENTIFY A PARTICULAR GROUP.
I MEAN, THERE'S CERTAINLY
SUBGROUPS.
DOCTORS ARE NOTORIOUSLY IN THE
EMERGENCY ROOM FOR
EXTRAORDINARILY LONG HOURS.
IT'S ONLY IN THE LAST 10 YEARS,
IN FACT, THAT THE INSURANCE
INDUSTRY, THE TRUCKING INDUSTRY,
THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY HAS REALLY
IDENTIFIED THAT THE LOSS OF
SLEEP IS A REAL DRIVING FACTOR
IN THE POTENTIAL FOR AIRLINE
ACCIDENTS, SHIPPING, CAR
ACCIDENTS.
AND THERE ARE NOW VERY FIRM
RULES IN PLACE FOR HOW LONG A
PILOT CAN WORK FOR IN ANY GIVEN
WEEK, AND THE REASON BEING VERY
CLEAR, VERY SIMPLE, THAT
INADEQUATE SLEEP PRODUCES
MISTAKES, AND THOSE MISTAKES CAN
BE DEADLY.

Steve says BUT IT'S INTERESTING,
YOU TALKED EARLIER ABOUT THE
CULTURE OF MACHO, OF BEING ABLE
TO WORK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WITH
AS LITTLE SLEEP AS POSSIBLE, AND
I THINK IT'S STILL THE CASE THAT
MED STUDENTS DO 36-HOUR SHIFTS
AND THEY ARE EXPECTED TO GRAB,
YOU KNOW, 15, 20, 30-MINUTE CAT
NAPS HERE AND THERE, BUT
ESSENTIALLY DO THE WHOLE SHIFT
WITH AS LITTLE SLEEP AS POSSIBLE.
THAT'S A POINT OF PRIDE AMONG DOCTORS.
HOW DO YOU CHANGE THAT CULTURE?

John says THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE THE
CULTURE IS TO DO WHAT WE'RE
DOING RIGHT NOW, AND THAT'S HAVE
A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT, TO
BRING PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO
REALIZE THAT THEY CAN'T DO THEIR
JOB AS WELL AS THEY NEED TO DO
THEIR JOB.
YOU KNOW, I HAVE A PERSONAL
FAMILY MEMBER WHO CRASHED THE
CAR.
WORKS VERY LONG HOURS IN THE
MEDICAL INDUSTRY AND, YOU KNOW,
IT WAS... IT WAS NOT SORT OF A
POINT OF EMBARRASSMENT.
IT WAS MORE A MATTER OF, WELL, I
WAS A BIT TIRED AND I THINK I
MIGHT HAVE DRIFTED OFF.
I JUST LIKE TO MAKE THE
ANALOGY WITH DRINKING AND
DRIVING.
IT USED TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO SAY,
OH, I CRASHED THE CAR, I HAD A
FEW TOO MANY.
THAT'S ERASED.

Steve says RIGHT.

John says AND I THINK IT'S REALLY
BECOME A CHANGE IN CULTURE
BECAUSE... WELL, THE LAW
ENFORCED IT, AND I MEAN, I THINK
IT NEEDS TO AT SOME POINT IN
TIME BECOME THE LAW NOT TO BE
ABLE TO DO... TO BE ABLE TO
DRIVE OR OPERATE A VEHICLE WHILE
UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF PARTIAL
CHRONIC SLEEP LOSS.

Steve says HUH, INTERESTING.
ADRIAN, I TALKED TO THE MAYOR OF
TORONTO ABOUT THIS.
JOHN TORY, I THINK HE'S 64 YEARS
OLD, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND HE
HAS SAID, FOR WHATEVER REASON,
AT THIS POINT IN HIS LIFE HE HAS
NO PROBLEM GETTING UP AT 5 A.M.
EVERY DAY, OR 5:30, AND YOU
KNOW, HITTING THE GROUND RUNNING
AND DOING EARLY MORNING EVENTS
ALL THE TIME.
IS THAT UNUSUAL?

The caption changes to "Adrian Owen, @Comadork."

Adrian says IT'S NOT TOTALLY UNUSUAL.
I MEAN, WE'VE KNOWN FOR QUITE A
WHILE THAT PEOPLE SLEEP LESS AS
THEY GET OLDER.
ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS
THAT CAME OUT OF OUR DATABASE IS
IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT PEOPLE
WERE... THEY STILL NEED AS MUCH
SLEEP.
SO THE EFFECTS OF DEPRAVATION,
EVEN AS YOU GET INTO YOUR 60S
AND 70S, ARE THE SAME.
THIS SUGGESTS THAT, YEAH, SURE,
WE MAYBE FEEL THAT WE NEED LESS
SLEEP OR WE ARE LESS ABLE TO
SLEEP AS WE GET OLDER, BUT
ACTUALLY THESE PEOPLE
COGNITIVELY IN TERMS OF DECISION
MAKING AND THEIR BRAIN, EVERYDAY
BRAIN FUNCTION WOULD PROBABLY BE
DOING BETTER IF THEY DID TRY TO
GET A BIT MORE SLEEP.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says IF THAT EFFORT, JOHN,
TO TRY TO GET MORE SLEEP, WOULD
YOU ADVISE SLEEPING PILLS?

The caption changes to "John Peever, @CanSleepSociety."

John says GOOD QUESTION, TRICKY ANSWER TO GIVE YOU.
THERE ARE CERTAINLY TIMES WHEN
SLEEPING PILLS ARE HELPFUL AND USEFUL.
I MEAN, THE ONE THING, HOWEVER,
I DO FIND REASONABLY CONCERNING
ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF SLEEPING
PILLS OFTEN STEMS FROM THIS
CONCEPT THAT YOU NEED THE
PERFECT NIGHT OF SLEEP.
SO WE'RE HAVING A DISCUSSION
TODAY ABOUT HOW MUCH SLEEP YOU
GET OVERALL AND HOW MUCH DAILY
CHANGES IN THAT AMOUNT CAN
AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO DO...
LIVE YOUR LIFE THE NEXT DAY.
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF DATA TO
SUGGEST THAT THE USE OF CHRONIC
SLEEPING PILLS HAS DETRIMENTAL
EFFECTS ON YOUR RAW HEALTH.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT SURVIVAL RATES
OR HOW LONG PEOPLE WHO ARE
CHRONICALLY SLEEP DEPRIVED LIVE
COMPARED TO PEOPLE WHO ARE
TAKING SLEEPING PILLS, IN FACT,
THERE'S MORE EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST
THAT THE PEOPLE TAKING SLEEPING
PILLS HAVE A SHORTENED LIFESPAN
AS OPPOSED TO INSOMNIACS WHO
DON'T TAKE SLEEPING PILLS.

Steve says INTERESTING.

John says SOME CAUTION NEEDS TO BE
GIVEN TO THE USE OF SLEEPING PILLS.

Steve says HOW ABOUT THIS, ADRIAN?
I WILL CONFESS HERE WITH THE
BASEBALL PLAYOFFS ON TOWARDS THE
END OF OCTOBER, I DIDN'T GET
ENOUGH SLEEP AS I SHOULD HAVE
ESPECIALLY AFTER GAME 3, ENDING
AT 3:30 IN THE MORNING AND I HAD
TO BE UP BRIGHT AND EARLY THE
NEXT DAY.
HOWEVER, I THINK THE ABILITY TO
HAVE A NAP AND FEEL OKAY, I CAN
GRAB 15 MINUTES IN THE MAKEUP
CHAIR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND
SEEM TO FEEL OKAY.
CAN THAT WORK OVER A SUSTAINED
PERIOD OF TIME?

Adrian says THERE ARE TWO ANSWERS I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU.
THE FIRST IS YOU MAY NOT KNOW
WHAT IT IS THAT IS MOST AFFECTED
BY YOUR CONDITION.
MOST OF US WHEN WE THINK ABOUT
BRAIN FUNCTION OR COGNITION, WE
THINK ABOUT MEMORY.
IS MY MEMORY IMPAIRED?
YEAH, ACTUALLY WE FOUND THAT
SLEEP DEPRAVATION OVER A LONG
PERIOD OF TIME DIDN'T AFFECT
PEOPLE'S MEMORIES, AND THAT'S
THE THING THAT PEOPLE USUALLY
IDENTIFY WITH COGNITIVE
DYSFUNCTION.
WHAT ABOUT YOUR DECISION MAKING,
YOU KNOW, YOUR DECISION MAKING,
EVERY DAY ALL OF US MAKE
HUNDREDS OF DECISIONS.
THEY MIGHT BE SIMPLE DECISIONS
LIKE SHALL I TAKE THE BUS TO
WORK OR DO I NEED TO TAKE A TAXI
TO GET THERE IN TIME.
THEY MIGHT BE COMPLICATED
DECISIONS LIKE SHALL I MARRY
THIS PERSON, SHALL I GET
DIVORCED, SHALL I LEASE A CAR?
WE'RE ALL MAKING MANY, MANY
DECISIONS, AND THAT'S WHERE WE
SAW THE PROBLEM WITH SLEEP
DEPRAVATION.
AND THE INTERESTING THING IS WE
DON'T ALL NECESSARILY KNOW THAT
WE'RE NOT DOING THAT AS WELL AS
WE CAN BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
WHERE'S THE FEEDBACK?
UNLIKE MEMORY WHERE YOU KNOW
YOU'VE FORGOTTEN SOMETHING, IN
DECISION MAKING, YOU MAKE THE
DECISION AND YOU MOVE ON, AND
WHO KNOWS WHETHER IT WAS THE
BEST DECISION YOU COULD HAVE
MADE. I'D ARGUE THAT VERY OFTEN
PEOPLE ARE NOT MAKING THE BEST
DECISION THEY COULD AFTER SLEEP
DEPRAVATION.

Steve says IF YOU CAN'T GET THE
SEVEN OR EIGHT HOURS IN ONE
BLOCK OVERNIGHT BUT YOU CAN
MANAGE TO CATCH UP A LITTLE BIT
WITH CAT NAPS TWO OR THREE TIMES
DURING THE DAY, DOES THAT WORK
OUT IN THE END?

John says THE DATA... THE SCIENCE
AROUND NAPPING IS SOMEWHAT
CONTROVERSIAL, AND IT REALLY
STEMS FROM HOW LONG THE NAP IS.
SO SHORT NAPS, LIKE YOU'RE
TAKING IN THE MAKEUP CHAIR, ARE
QUITE USEFUL IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD
ENOUGH SLEEP THE NIGHT BEFORE.
BUT ONCE YOU GET INTO NAPS THAT
ARE LONGER THAN AN HOUR, YOU RUN
INTO SOME PROBLEMS, BECAUSE WHEN
YOU WAKE UP FROM THE NAP YOU
HAVE THIS FEELING OF TERRIBLE
INERTIA OR THE INABILITY TO GET
BACK INTO THE GROOVE, SO TO SPEAK.
AND SO YOU KNOW, NAPS... SHORT
NAPS CAN BE VERY USEFUL.
LONGER NAPPING CAN HAVE SOME
PRETTY HARSH EFFECTS ON GETTING
BACK INTO THE GROOVE AFTER
YOU'VE HAD ONE.

Steve says GOOD ADVICE.
APPRECIATE THAT.
ADRIAN, TELL US ABOUT SOME OF
THE TESTS THAT PEOPLE TOOK TO
DETERMINE WHAT COGNITIVE
ABILITIES ARE AFFECTED BY A LACK
OF SLEEP.

The caption changes to "Testing cognition."

Adrian says YES, SO THESE WERE TESTS THAT
HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED OVER MANY,
MANY YEARS IN MY LAB AND OTHER
NEUROSCIENCE LABS AROUND THE
WORLD.
THEY HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO BE
EFFECTIVE IN, FOR EXAMPLE,
DETECTING EARLY DEMENTIA AND
THESE THINGS.
WE KNOW THEY ARE QUITE SENSITIVE
TO CHANGES IN COGNITIVE
FUNCTION.
THEY MEASURE THINGS LIKE OUR
ABILITY TO DETERMINE WHAT IS THE
ODD ONE OUT.
ONE OF THE TESTS WE PRESENT NINE
SHAPES.
THE PERSON HAS TO IDENTIFY WHICH
IS THE ODD ONE OUT.
IT MAY BE BECAUSE IT'S A
DIFFERENT COLOUR THAN THE REST,
A DIFFERENT SHAPE THAN THE REST.
IT MAY BE A COMBINATION OF ALL
OF THOSE THINGS.
THE TEST GRADUALLY GETS HARDER,
AND THIS IS A REALLY GOOD TEST
AT ASSESSING HOW WELL YOUR
FRONTAL LOBES, THE VERY FRONT OF
YOUR BRAIN THAT WE KNOW IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR DECISION MAKING
AND PLANNING AND THINKING AHEAD.
THESE ARE THE SORTS OF TESTS
THAT ASSESS THOSE SORTS OF
FUNCTIONS, DECISION MAKING,
PROBLEM SOLVING, ODD ONE OUT.
OTHER TESTS WE HAD REQUIRED
LOOKING TO SOLVE SIMPLE PROBLEMS
IN ORDER TO PLAN A SOLUTION, TO
A SIMPLE PUZZLE.
IT'S ONE OF THOSE PROBLEMS THAT,
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY GAMES
LIKE THIS ON THE INTERNET WHERE
YOU HAVE TO THINK THROUGH ALL
THE STEPS IN ADVANCE TO GET TO
THE ANSWER, AND AGAIN, THOSE ARE
THE SORTS OF TESTS WHERE WE SAW
THE PEOPLE WERE HAVING PROBLEMS
AFTER NOT GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP.
IT'S PROBLEMS THINKING AHEAD AND
WORKING OUT THE CORRECT SERIES
OF STEPS.
AND OF COURSE THIS TRANSLATES
INTO THE SORTS OF THINGS WE DO
EVERY DAY.
EVERY DAY WE'RE MAKING PLANS
ABOUT HOW WE GET FROM HERE TO
THERE, WHAT IT IS WE NEED TO DO
FIRST BEFORE WE GET ON AND COOK
DINNER LATER AND THESE SORTS OF
THINGS.

Steve says AND I PRESUME NOT
EVERY DECISION IS AFFECTED IN
THE SAME WAY.
I MEAN, THERE MUST... I
SHOULDN'T SAY THERE MUST.
ARE THERE SOME COGNITIVE
FUNCTIONS THAT ARE AFFECTED BY A
LACK OF SLEEP AND OTHERS THAT
ARE NOT?

Adrian says SO WE FOUND MEMORY WAS
SURPRISINGLY RESISTANT TO, YOU
KNOW, THE PROBLEMS THAT ONE
MIGHT... AFTER LACK OF SLEEP.
PEOPLE'S MEMORY, BY AND LARGE,
WASN'T AFFECTED.
I THINK THIS IS VERY INTERESTING
BECAUSE I THINK MEMORY IS
SOMETHING WE ALL IDENTIFY WITH.
WE KNOW WHEN WE'VE GOT PROBLEMS
WITH OUR MEMORY.
THAT'S WHY OUR RESULTS DIFFERED
ALSO FROM THE ACUTE SLEEP
DEPRAVATION STUDIES, THE STUDIES
THAT HAVE BEEN DONE UP TO NOW
THAT HAVE TAKEN SOMEBODY, PUT
THEM IN A LAB, KEPT THEM UP ALL
NIGHT AND LOOKED AT THE EFFECTS
OF JUST ONE LONG NIGHT WITHOUT
SLEEP.
AND THEIR MEMORY TENDS TO BE
AFFECTED, BUT OVER THE LONG
HAUL, OVER MANY MONTHS OF
GETTING JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO
LITTLE SLEEP, ACTUALLY MEMORY IS
PRETTY RESISTANT, BUT YOUR
ABILITY TO MAKE DECISIONS BOTH
SIMPLE AND COMPLEX IS LIKELY TO
BE PROFOUNDLY AFFECTED.

Steve says JOHN, I KNOW YOU'RE
NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS ONE, BUT
TOO BAD.
I'M GOING TO ASK IT ANYWAY.
IF YOU GET SIX REALLY GOOD HOURS
OF RESTFUL SLEEP, IS THAT BETTER
THAN EIGHT HOURS OF VERY FITFUL SLEEP?

John says SO YOU'RE GETTING AT A REAL
KEY QUESTION IN THE FIELD OF
SLEEP MEDICINE, AND THAT IS WHAT
IS MORE IMPORTANT?
HOW LONG YOU SLEEP OR HOW WELL
YOU SLEEP?
AND ALL THE AVAILABLE DATA TO
DATE SUGGESTS BOTH ARE EQUALLY
IMPORTANT.
SO YOU NEED TO HAVE A LENGTH OF
SLEEP THAT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT
YOU NEED TO HAVE A QUALITY OF
SLEEP THAT'S APPROPRIATE.
SO IF YOU SLEEP, AS YOU POINT
OUT, IF YOU STAY IN BED FOR 10
HOURS AND SAY, HEY, I WAS IN BED
FOR 10 HOURS, BUT YOU WERE ONLY
SLEEPING FOR SIX OF THEM, THEN
YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
BUT IF YOU'RE IN BED FOR SEVEN
HOURS AND YOU GET A QUALITY
SEVEN HOURS OF SLEEP, THAT'S
MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN HAVING
JUST STAYED IN BED BUT NOT SLEPT
WELL FOR THE WHOLE NIGHT.

Steve says WELL, THAT DOES RAISE
A QUESTION, ADRIAN, ABOUT THOSE
WHO... I GUESS THERE ARE SOME
PEOPLE WHO SLEEP MORE THAN EIGHT
HOURS A NIGHT, RIGHT?
THEY SLEEP A LOT.

Adrian says RIGHT.

Steve says IS THAT GOOD FOR YOU?

The caption changes to "Getting more."

Adrian says WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT WAS
ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING AND
UNEXPECTED FINDINGS FROM OUR
DATA, WHICH IS THAT BOTH TOO
LITTLE AND TOO MUCH SLEEP IS BAD
FOR YOU.
AND IT'S WORTH ABOUT THE SAME.
SO ONCE YOU GET UP ABOVE 9 OR 10
HOURS SLEEP, THE EFFECT ON YOUR
DECISION MAKING AND REASONING
ABILITY THE NEXT DAY IS RATHER
SIMILAR TO IF YOU WERE JUST
GETTING BETWEEN 5 AND 6 HOURS
SLEEP.
SO YOU'VE GOT TO GET IN THAT
WINDOW, BETWEEN 7 AND 8 HOURS.
TOO LITTLE AND TOO MUCH, BOTH
BAD FOR YOU.

Steve says WHAT'S THE IMPLICATION
OF TOO MUCH?
SAME CONSEQUENCES?

Adrian says IT'S ACTUALLY THE SAME.
WE SAW EXACTLY THE SAME PATTERN
OF IMPAIRMENT.
WE KNOW LESS... JOHN COULD
PROBABLY SPEAK TO THIS BETTER
THAN I CAN, BUT WE KNOW LESS
ABOUT WHY THAT'S THE CASE.
IT SEEMS THAT'S OBVIOUS TO MOST
PEOPLE WHY TOO MUCH SLEEP WOULD
BE BAD FOR YOU.
THERE IS AN EFFECT KNOWN AS
SLEEP INERTIA, GETTING OUT OF SLEEP.

Steve says LETHARGY.

Adrian says IT COULD BE THAT WAS A FACTOR IN OUR RESULTS.

Steve says THAT IS NOT JUST AN
ANECDOTAL THING?
THERE'S RESEARCH TO PROVE YOU
COULD BE MORE LETHARGIC THE MORE
SLEEP YOU GET?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

John says THERE WAS A FANTASTIC STUDY
THAT CAME OUT JUST ABOUT THE
SAME TIME THAT ADRIAN'S STUDY
DID LOOKING AT THIS CONCEPT OF
SLEEP INERTIA BUT RELATED NOT TO
SLEEPING NINE HOURS BUT HAVING
LONG NAPS VERSUS SHORT NAPS.
AND AFTER AN HOUR NAP, SLEEP
INERTIA WAS HORRENDOUS DURING
THE DAY.
VERY DIFFICULT.
AND THEN THE SCIENTISTS WHO
CONDUCTED THIS STUDY DID
SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT,
WHICH WAS TO IMAGE THE BRAIN OF
THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE REALLY
SLEEPILY AFTER THEY HAD A LONG
NAP VERSUS THOSE WHO WEREN'T TOO
SLEEPILY AFTER A SHORT NAP, AND
THEY FOUND THAT THE PARTS OF THE
BRAIN THAT SORT OF WORKED
TOGETHER TO ALLOW YOU TO MAKE
DECISIONS AND REMEMBER VARIOUS
THINGS SEEMED TO FALL APART, SO
THAT THE SORT OF CHITTER CHATTER
BETWEEN THE IMPORTANT PARTS OF
THE BRAIN THAT LET YOU BE YOU IN
A HEALTHY WAY SEEMED TO BREAK
DOWN AFTER LONG NAPS.
SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT NINE HOURS
OF SLEEP MAY CAUSE THE SAME TYPE
OF EFFECT TO SORT OF CAUSE
THINGS TO BREAK DOWN AND IT
WOULD EXPLAIN SOME OF THE DATA
ABOUT MAKING POOR DECISIONS.

Steve says JOHN, LET ME FOLLOW UP
WITH THIS.
OBVIOUSLY IF YOU'RE TRAVELLING
HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD THERE'S
GOING TO BE GREAT DIFFICULTIES
ADJUSTING TO THE TIME CHANGE AND
ALL THAT.
BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE FALL
BACK TIME OF THE YEAR RIGHT NOW,
RIGHT?
SPRING FORWARD, FALL BACK.
IT'S ONLY THE CHANGE OF AN HOUR.
AND YET, YOU KNOW, ONE DOES TALK
TO PEOPLE WHO EVEN... YOU KNOW,
I GUESS IN THE SHORT RUN HAVE
SOME DIFFICULTY JUST WITH THAT
ONE HOUR OF CHANGE IN THE CLOCK
AS WE MOVE THE CLOCKS BACKWARDS.
ANY ADVICE FOR HOW TO DEAL WITH
THAT?

John says WELL, I'LL GO BACK TO
ADRIAN'S STUDY AND MANY, MANY
OTHER STUDIES THAT IMPLY AND
QUANTITATIVE DATA DEMONSTRATE
THAT ON AVERAGE WE'RE PROBABLY
SLEEP DEPRIVED.
NOW 50 percent OF THE PARTICIPANTS IN
ADRIAN'S STUDY REPORTED GETTING
ONLY AROUND SIX HOURS A NIGHT OF
SLEEP.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO
THOSE 50 percent OF... THAT'S 5,000 OF
10,000, TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY
AND CATCH UP ON YOUR ONE HOUR OF
SLEEP WHEN YOU'RE GIVEN THAT
LUXURIOUS BENEFIT.
THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THE TIME
CHANGE ISN'T NOW WHERE WE FALL
BACK.
IT'S WHERE WE SPRING AHEAD,
WHERE YOU LOSE THAT ONE HOUR.
AND PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY
SITTING ON THE CUSP OF ONLY
SLEEPING SIX HOURS A NIGHT, ALL
OF A SUDDEN THEY ARE AFFRONTED
WITH FIVE HOURS A NIGHT, AND
THAT ONE HOUR TAKEAWAY, CLEAR
PROBLEMS.
THERE'S AN INCREASED RATE OF
PEOPLE COMING INTO THE EMERGENCY
ROOM BECAUSE OF TRAFFIC
ACCIDENTS, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO LOSING THAT ONE HOUR IN THE
SPRING AHEAD TIME HAS A
QUANTIFIABLE IMPACT ON HEALTH
AND BEHAVIOUR.

Steve says I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE
SAY I DON'T GET ENOUGH SLEEP
MONDAY TO FRIDAY BECAUSE OF MY
JOB BUT THEN I CAN CATCH UP ON
THE WEEKEND.
DOES THE DATA PROVE THAT THAT'S
ACTUALLY A REAL THING?

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Adrian says IT SUGGESTS THAT IT IS, AND
IN FACT THAT'S ONE OF THE
GOOD-NEWS ELEMENTS OF OUR STUDY,
WHICH IS THAT FOR THOSE PEOPLE
WHO THE NIGHT BEFORE THEY TOOK
OUR COGNITIVE TESTS GOT MORE
SLEEP THAN THEY WOULD NORMALLY
GET ON AVERAGE.
SO FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY GOT
A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP.
THEY DID TEND TO CATCH UP
SOMEWHAT.
THEY DID TEND TO BE BETTER.
SO THE SUGGESTION IS THAT IF
YOU... YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU'RE
CHRONICALLY SLEEP DEPRIVED OVER
A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, ONE NIGHT
CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Steve says HMM.
LET'S FINISH UP ON THIS.
HOW MUCH MORE NEW INFORMATION DO
YOU THINK YOU CAN STILL GLEAN
FROM THE NEARLY 11,000 PEOPLE
THAT YOU USED IN YOUR STUDY?

The caption changes to "And more to come..."

Adrian says WELL, A HUGE AMOUNT.
WE HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY.
WE SET THIS WHOLE STUDY UP.
WE KNEW WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO
GET TO THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.
WE OBVIOUSLY ASKED THEM A LOT OF
OTHER QUESTIONS THAT MAY RELATE
TO SLEEP, MAY HAVE NOTHING TO DO
WITH SLEEP.
FOR EXAMPLE WE ASKED PEOPLE
WHETHER THEY'D EVER HAD A
CONCUSSION, HOW MANY CONCUSSIONS
HAD THEY HAD?
NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT WHETHER...
HOW CONCUSSIONS MIGHT AFFECT
COGNITIVE PERFORMANCE IN THE
LONG TERM.
WE ASKED THEM HOW MANY LANGUAGES
THEY SPEAK.
IT WAS INTERESTING TO KNOW IF
SPEAKING A NUMBER OF LANGUAGES
IS BETTER FOR YOUR COGNITIVE.
BRAIN TRAINING WE LOOKED AT THAT
AS WELL, WHETHER PEOPLE WERE
BRAIN TRAINING.
THERE WERE MANY, MANY FACTORS
THAT WE CAN PULL OUT OF THIS
DATA THAT WE'RE REALLY AT THE
VERY BEGINNING.
I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT ELSE
WE'RE LIKELY TO FIND.

Steve says JOHN, WHAT DO YOU
STILL WANT TO FIND OUT?

John says WELL, I THINK WHAT WE REALLY
NEED TO FOCUS ON AT THE MOMENT,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE SLEEP
COMMUNITY IS REALLY INTERESTED
IN IS THE LINK BETWEEN SLEEP AND
DEMENTIA.
SO THERE'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT
OF DATA COMING OUT NOW THAT'S
SUGGESTIVE OF THE FACT THAT
SHORT SLEEP AMOUNTS OVERALL, AS
IN ADRIAN'S STUDY, MIGHT BE
CORRELATED WITH CERTAIN FORMS OF
DEMENTIA.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT EARLY TO MAKE
THAT DEFINITIVE ASSOCIATION
BETWEEN SHORT SLEEP AND
DEMENTIA, BUT I THINK IT'S
SOMETHING THAT BECAUSE DEMENTIA
RATES ARE JUST SKYROCKETING AND
THEY IMPACT, YOU KNOW, 10 percent OF
THE POPULATION IN SOME CASES, I
THINK WE REALLY NEED TO SORT OF
TEASE APART HOW DOES OR DOES
SLEEP IN FACT CONTRIBUTE TO
DEMENTIA, OR IS IT SIMPLY THE
OTHER WAY AROUND?
YOU START TO DEVELOP DEMENTIA
INDEPENDENT OF CHANGES IN SLEEP,
AND THAT MAY IMPACT ON HOW A
PERSON WITH DEMENTIA SLEEPS.

Steve says SO AT THE MOMENT YOU
CAN'T SAY THAT THERE IS DIRECT
CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO.
YOU CANNOT SAY THAT YET?

John says WE CAN'T SAY IT YET IN HUMANS.
THERE'S VERY SUPPORTIVE DATA FOR
THIS, BUT CERTAINLY THE
INFORMATION COMING OUT OF BASIC
SCIENCE, WHICH WHAT I DO,
WORKING WITH MICE, LOOKING AT
MODELS OF HUMAN DISEASE, WE KNOW
THAT IF YOU TAKE SLEEP AWAY FROM
A MOUSE, THOSE NASTY PROTEINS
THAT BUILD UP IN BRAIN CELLS
THAT CAUSE DEMENTIA ARE SPED UP.
SO THE PROCESS THAT CAUSES
DEMENTIA IS WORSENED IN MICE
THAT SLEEP LESS.
SO WE CERTAINLY HAVE GOOD
EVIDENCE FROM THE SCIENCE, BASIC
SCIENCE PERSPECTIVE, BUT WE'RE
STILL ON OUR WAY THERE TO
DETERMINING IF THAT HOLDS TRUE
IN PEOPLE AS WELL.

The caption changes to "Producer: Gregg Thurlbeck, @GreggThurlbeck."

Steve says FASCINATING.
THAT'S JOHN PEEVER, VP RESEARCH
CANADIAN SLEEP SOCIETY.
ADRIAN OWEN, CANADA EXCELLENCE
RESEARCH CHAIR IN COGNITIVE
NEUROSCIENCE AND IMAGING AT
WESTERN UNIVERSITY.
AS I THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR
COMING IN TONIGHT, SWEET DREAMS
TO YOU BOTH.

Both guests say THANK YOU.

Watch: A Good Night's Sleep