Transcript: Revisiting Rae's Days | Sep 20, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and gray plaid tie.

A caption on screen reads "Revisiting rae's days. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says 25 YEARS AGO THIS
MONTH, ONTARIO WAS IN A VERY
PRECARIOUS PLACE.
INTEREST RATES WERE TOO HIGH.
UNEMPLOYMENT WAS TOO HIGH.
THE PROVINCIAL BUDGET DEFICIT
WAS TOO HIGH.
THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY HAD
NUMEROUS OPTIONS TO COMBAT THE
DIRE ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES AND
THOSE OPTIONS RANGED FROM BAD TO
AWFUL TO EVEN WORSE.
BOB RAE WAS PREMIER AND HIS
GOVERNMENT OPTED FOR SOMETHING
VERY DIFFERENT.
AND VERY CONTROVERSIAL.
IT WAS CALLED THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT.
AND ONTARIO'S 21st PREMIER
JOINS US NOW TO REVIEW THE
EVENTS OF A QUARTER CENTURY AGO.

Rae is in his late sixties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped red tie.

Steve continues ARE YOU READY TO WALK DOWN MEMORY LANE HERE?

Rae says WELL, YES, I'M READY.

Steve says YOU'RE READY.
WE SORT OF SET IT UP THAT THE
ECONOMY YOU WERE FACING WAS
HORRENDOUS AND YOU HAD KIND OF A
THREE-LEGGED STOOL.
YOU WERE GOING TO RAISE TAXES
SOME, CUT SPENDING SOME AND THE
THIRD LEG WAS THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT.
WHAT WAS THE IDEA?

The caption changes to "Bob Rae. 21st Premier of Ontario."
Then, it changes again to "A tanking economy."

Rae says WELL, THE OTHER KEY
ELEMENT IN WHAT WE WERE TRYING
TO DO AND WHAT WE DID, IN FACT,
WAS TO MAINTAIN INVESTMENT IN
THINGS LIKE HOUSING AND BASIC
INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE
TRANSPORTATION.
WE HAD A SERIES OF SUBWAY LINES
UNDER CONSTRUCTION, WHICH WERE
OBLITERATED BY THE NEXT
GOVERNMENT.

Steve says ALL THOSE HOLES WERE
FILLED IN.

Rae says THEY WERE ALL FILLED
IN.
WE WERE VERY DETERMINED TO SAVE
AS MUCH AS WE COULD TO SAVE
JOBS.
TO SAVE SERVICES.
AND TO REIN IN SPENDING IN THE
MOST EFFECTIVE WAY.
AND WHAT I THINK EVERYBODY NEEDS
TO REMEMBER IS THAT MOST OF WHAT
ONTARIO SPENDS IS WAGES.
MOST OF THE MONEY THAT WE SPEND,
MOST OF THE BUDGET OF THE
PROVINCE GOES TO TEACHERS AND
DOCTORS AND POLICEMEN AND FIRE
FIGHTERS AND...

Steve says UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS.

Rae says UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS.
EVERYBODY WORKING IN THE BROADER
PUBLIC SECTOR.
AND FOR THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF.

Steve says SO IF YOU WANT TO SAVE
MONEY, THAT'S WHERE YOU'VE GOT
TO GO.

Rae says WELL, IT'S THE MOST
EFFECTIVE WAY TO GO.
SO, YES, WE DECIDED THAT WE
NEEDED TO TRY SOMETHING QUITE
DIFFERENT.
BUT WE ALSO DECIDED ON A PROCESS
OF CONSULTATION.
WHICH WAS QUITE SUBSTANTIAL.
STARTING IN THE FALL.
IN THE SPRING OF '93 AND THEN
WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH UNTIL WE
REACHED THE CONCLUSION THAT WE
REACHED.

Steve says YOU HAD ALL THE UNIONS
FROM THE PUBLIC SECTOR AROUND
THE TABLE IN THE HOPES THAT THEY
WOULD VOLUNTARILY NEGOTIATE SAVINGS.

The caption changes to "Bob Rae, @BobRae48."
Then, it changes again to "Tense negotiations."

Rae says WE STARTED OUT WITH
A CONFERENCE WHICH I REMEMBER
VERY WELL WHERE WE BASICALLY
LAID OUT IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE
LEADERSHIP OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR
UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS, UNION
LEADERS, HOSPITAL PRESIDENTS,
HEADS OF MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS...
EVERYBODY.
AND JUST SAID: HERE'S WHERE WE
ARE.
ACTUALLY BY THAT POINT, THE
ECONOMY WAS STARTING TO REBOUND.
THE ECONOMY HAD GONE INTO THE
TANK BETWEEN '89, '90, '91, '92.
'93 WE WERE BOUNCING BACK
ECONOMICALLY BUT THE REVENUES
WERE NOT COMING BACK TO THE
EXTENT WHICH WE WANTED THEM TO.
SO WE FELT WE HAD TO TAKE MORE
SERIOUS ACTION IF WE WERE GOING
TO AVOID MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR THE
ONTARIO PUBLIC SECTOR.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says DO YOU RECALL WHOSE
IDEA IT WAS TO SAY TO PEOPLE:
YOU TAKE 12 UNPAID DAYS OFF FROM
WORK.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIRE ANYBODY.
JUST TAKE 12 UNPAID DAYS OFF
FROM WORK.
WE'LL SAVE 2 BILLION DOLLARS AND WE'LL
SAVE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS?

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Rae says YOU SAY DO I
REMEMBER ONE SPECIFIC PERSON?
I DON'T.
I THINK IT WAS A PRODUCT OF A
LONG PERIOD OF DISCUSSION.
WE'D ACTUALLY HAD A NUMBER OF
MEETINGS WITH THE TRADE UNION
LEADERSHIP OF THE PROVINCE OVER
A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
BECAUSE THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAD
GONE THROUGH THEIR OWN SOCIAL
CONTRACT WHICH WAS REALLY QUITE
BRUTAL.
WE SAW LOTS OF PEOPLE LOSING
THEIR JOBS.
WE HAD TO WORK HARD TO SAVE
JOBS.
SO THE FORMULA THAT WE CREATED
IN KAPUSKASING WHERE WE SAVED
ALL THOSE JOBS IN THE STEEL
INDUSTRY, WHERE WE SAVED A LOT
OF JOBS, THROUGH A LO OF THE
RESTRUCTURING THAT WE DID WAS TO
SAY TO THE UNIONS: YOU'RE GOING
TO HAVE TO TAKE LESS.
AND IF THERE'S AN UPSIDE YOU'LL
GET THE UPSIDE.
IN THE CASE OF THE WORKERS IN
SPRUCE FALLS, THEY TOOK SOME
SHARES IN THE COMPANY AND
ACTUALLY THEY DID VERY WELL OUT
OF IT.
BUT BASICALLY OUR VIEW WAS THE
PRIVATE SECTOR WORKERS HAD TAKEN
A HIT AND TAKEN A MAJOR HIT.
WE DIDN'T SEE HOW WE COULD GO
FORWARD WITHOUT FRANKLY SHARING
SOME OF THE PAIN.

Steve says THE PUBLIC SECTOR HAD
KIND OF BEEN PROTECTED FROM A
LOT OF THAT.

Rae says HAVE I TOLD THIS
ANECDOTE BEFORE.
BUT AS YOU KNOW I SPEND QUITE A
LOT OF TIME IN THE SUMMER IN
EASTERN ONTARIO.
AND IN A LITTLE TOWN WHERE WE
HAVE OUR COTTAGE, NEAR OUR
COTTAGE, I WAS WALKING DOWN THE
STREET.
A GUY STOPPED ME AND SAID BOB
COME OVER HERE.
I WENT OVER TO SEE HIM.
HE SAID YOU KNOW WHO MAKES ALL
THE MONEY IN THIS TOWN?
HE SAID THE HYDRO WORKER, THE
TEACHER, THE HOSPITAL WORKER.
NONE OF THEM HAVE BEEN TOUCHED.
WE'RE THE ONLY ONES PAYING THE
PRICE.
AND I SORT OF SAID TO HIM, LOOK,
THEY'RE DOING IMPORTANT WORK AND
DA DA DA DA.
AND I THOUGHT YOU KNOW IT IS
HARD TO NOT, IN THIS ECONOMY
THAT WE WERE IN, IF YOU WANT TO
SAVE THE JOBS, THERE ARE TWO
THINGS.
THERE REALLY IS A VERY SIMPLE
CHOICE.
Mr. HARRIS MADE A DIFFERENT
CHOICE WHEN HE MADE THIS CHOICE.
HE DECIDED TO SAY WELL, WE'RE
GOING TO PAY LESS.
WE'RE GOING TO FIRE PEOPLE.

Steve says SMALLER PUBLIC SERVICE.

Rae says WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
A SMALLER PUBLIC SERVICE, LAY
OFF A BUNCH OF NURSES, A BUNCH
OF TEACHERS.
AND THAT'S A PERFECTLY, YOU
KNOW, FROM HIS PHILOSOPHICAL
POINT OF VIEW THAT'S WHAT YOU
GOT TO DO.
MY VIEW WAS IT'S BETTER TO ASK
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING TO
TAKE A LITTLE LESS.
THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, AS I
WILL SAY AGAIN, HAROLD WILSON
ONCE TALKED ABOUT THE LABOUR
PARTY AND HE SAID WHEN YOU HAVE
TO DO DIFFICULT THINGS, IT'S
LIKE TELLING SALVATION ARMY
THERE IS NO SALVATION.
I MEAN YOU'RE MAKING A DIFFICULT
TURN THAT TO THIS DAY I THINK
THERE'S A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO
SAY HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY HAVE
DONE THAT.
AND I REALIZE... FULLY REALIZE
THAT.
AND I KNEW IT AT THE TIME, THAT
WHEN WE DECIDED TO DO IT AND
CABINET AGREED AND THE CAUCUS
AGREED.
AND PEOPLE, FOR THE MOST PART,
CAME WITH US.
WE LOST A FEW BUT WE NEVER LOST
OUR MAJORITY.
I THINK IT'S REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IT WAS
NOT AN EASY CHOICE.
BUT I ALSO KNEW THAT WE WERE
LOSING SOME SUPPORTERS IN DOING
IT.
AND IT PROVED IN THE END TO BE
WHAT I CALL A VERY GOOD POLICY
CHOICE WHICH I WILL DEFEND FOR
A LONG TIME. POLITICALLY IT WAS
NOT A GREAT CHOICE.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP ON
THAT. YOU KNOW PATRICK MONAGHAN
WHO IS NOW A JUDGE. HE WAS A
PROFESSOR AT YORK UNIVERSITY,
LAW PROFESSOR BACK IN THE DAY
WHEN HE WROTE A BOOK CALLED
"STORMING THE PINK PALACE."
IN WHICH HE CALLED THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT A POLITICAL
TRANSFORMATION WORTH NOTING.

A quote appears on screen, under the title "A new shade of orange." The quote reads "Not only did Bob Rae turn his back on organized labour... but he also rejected the traditional left-wing belief that government deficits and debts don't matter. What made this transformation so remarkable was that it seemed to coincide with a fundamental shift that was taking place across the country and, indeed, throughout the western world."
Quoted from Patrick Monahan, "Storming the pink palace", 1995.

Steve says HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT
ANALYSIS OF WHAT YOU WERE UP TO?

The caption changes to "Good policy, bad politics?"

Rae says I DON'T THINK I
TURNED MY BACK ON ANYBODY.
AND I CERTAINLY FEEL THAT THERE
ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE
LABOUR MOVEMENT WHO UNDERSTAND
THAT CERTAINLY BASED ON MY
CONVERSATIONS TODAY.
I THINK... BUT I THINK IT WAS
VERY HARD FOR SOME OF THEM TO
ACCEPT IT.
I ACCEPT THAT.
BUT, YEAH, I MEAN ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT AFFECTED MY OWN
THINKING WAS THE FACT THAT
DURING THE PREVIOUS 18 MONTHS,
I'D SPENT A LOT OF TIME MEETING
WITH OTHER PREMIERS BECAUSE OF
THE CONSTITUTIONAL MESS WE WERE IN.
AND BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTIES
WE FACED ON THAT FRONT.
AND THE PREMIERS WOULD GET
TOGETHER.
ALL PARTIES.
HARCOURT, ROMANOW, RAE.
PEOPLE FROM OTHER PARTIES,
BORASSA, GARY FILMON, THEY
CROSSED THE SPECTRUM IN ALL
DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY
AND WE WERE ALL FACING THE SAME
CHALLENGE.
AND WE ALL HAD CANDID
CONVERSATION B.C. IT.
ABOUT WHAT IT MEANT FOR A
PROVINCE TO BE IN SUCH A
SUBSTANTIAL DEFICIT POSITION.
BECAUSE WE'RE BORROWING ON OPEN
MARKETS.
IT AFFECTS EVERYBODY'S CREDIT
RATING A REPORTER ONCE ASKED ME
ARE YOU AFRAID THEY'LL STOP
LENDING YOU MONEY?
I SAID NO, I'M AFRAID THEY'RE
GOING TO KEEP ON LENDING ME MONEY.

[LAUGHTER]

Rae says THAT'S THE PRIORITY.
I FELT WE NEEDED TO GET OUR
PROVINCE ON A BETTER FOOTING, ON
A FIRMER FOOTING.
BY DOING THAT WE WOULD SAVE MORE
PUBLIC SERVICES THAN IF WE
CONTINUED TO BORROW MONEY.

Steve says I SEEM TO REMEMBER BOB
WHITE THE LEADER OF THE AUTO
UNION AT THE TIME SAID FOR
HEAVEN'S SAKES GIVE EVERYBODY 15
CENTS ON THE DOLLAR AND SEND
EVERYBODY HOME.

Rae says I DON'T THINK HE
MEANT IT.
HE WAS EXPRESSING FRUSTRATION.
BUT HE DID SAY IT.
TO ME IT REFLECTED A KIND OF
THINKING THAT HAD GONE ON IN
YEAH FOR A LONG TIME.
WHICH IS WE COULD KEEP GOING IN
THIS DIRECTION AND THERE WOULD
BE NO PRICE TO PAY.
AND MY VIEW WAS AND STILL IS
THAT ANY GOVERNMENT THAT DOESN'T
KEEP ITS EYE ON DEBTS AND
DEFICITS IS NOT DOING ITS JOB.
AND THAT'S TRUE WHETHER YOU'RE A
SOCIALIST OR A CAPITALIST OR A
SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC OR A LIBERAL
OR AN NDP'ER OR A CONSERVATIVE.
IT DON'T MATTER.
THERE'S A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH YOU
CAN BORROW.
THERE'S A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH YOU
CAN SPEND.
THERE'S A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH YOU
CAN TAX.
AND THIS IS THE DISCIPLINE THAT
EVERY GOVERNMENT HAS TO LEARN.
WE LEARNED IT IN A HARD WAY.
BECAUSE THE DOWNTURN IN ONTARIO
CAME SO FAST AND SO SUDDEN.
AND WHEN IT CAME WE WENT FROM A
MODEST SURPLUS IN '89 TO A
SUBSTANTIAL DEFICIT... A REAL
DEFICIT IN 1990.
AND THAT AT THAT POINT WE
REALIZED THAT WE HAD REAL WORK
TO DO.

Steve says NOW THAT IT'S A
QUARTER CENTURY AFTER THE FACT,
CAN YOU LET US IN ON SOME OF
WHAT WERE NO DOUBT INCREDIBLY
ELBOWS UP BRASS KNUCKLES
DISCUSSIONS IN CABINET OR IN
CAUCUS?
AND MAYBE SHARE AN AN HE CAN
DOTE OR TWO ABOUT HOW THOSE
WENT, THOSE CONVERSATIONS?

Rae says WELL, YOU KNOW, I
KNOW THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY THE
CONVENTIONAL VIEW.
BUT THE REALITY IS, IS WHEN WE
REALLY ROLLED OUR SLEEVES UP, AS
A GOVERNMENT, AND SAID WE REALLY
HAVE TO GET AT THE DETAILS OF
ALL ASPECTS OF SPENDING, WE
SPENT... WE HAD A CAUCUS
MEETINGS FOR A FULL THREE OR
FOUR DAYS NON-STOP.
LOOKING AT EVERY ITEM OF
GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE.
LOOKING AT... WE GOT FULL
BRIEFINGS FROM, YOU KNOW, MANY
PLACES AS WE COULD.
WHERE CAN WE CUT?
WHAT CAN WE DO?
WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS?
AND THEN WE HAD A VERY FULL
BLOWN DISCUSSION AND DEBATE ON
THE SOCIAL CONTRACT.
AND THAT WAS TOUGH.
BUT WHAT WAS REMARKABLE TO ME
ABOUT THE CAUCUS WAS ULTIMATELY
THE SOLIDARITY IT EXPRESSED.
IT WASN'T ENTHUSIASM.
BUT IT WAS A RECOGNITION THAT IN
THE CIRCUMSTANCES IT WAS THE
BETTER CHOICE.

Steve says YOU HAD NO MASS
RESIGNATIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

Rae says NO, WE HAD SOME.
WE HAD A FEW UNHAPPY SOULS.
THEY WANT ADD RECOUNT THE DAY
AFTER THE ELECTION.
THAT'S NOT WHERE THEY REALLY
WANTED TO BE.

Steve says BUT FOR THOSE WHO
SAY... AND BRIAN MULRONEY LOVES
THIS LINE... YOU GOT TO DANCE
WITH THE ONES THAT BRUNG YOU,
YOU WENT AFTER THE BASE OF THE
NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHICH WAS
THE UNION MOVEMENT.
AND YOU SURELY MUST HAVE KNOWN
THERE WOULD BE A HUGE POLITICAL
PRICE TO PAY FOR THAT.

Rae says I DID.
AND IF I DIDN'T I CERTAINLY
LEARNED IT.
BUT I KNEW THAT TO GO DOWN THIS
PATH WAS FRAUGHT WITH
DIFFICULTY.
AND, YOU KNOW, FOR A POLITICAL
LEADER TO, AS I SAID, TO SAY TO
HIS OWN PARTY AND TO SAY TO HIS
OWN POLITICAL BASE: I HAVE TO
DO SOME VERY DIFFICULT THINGS.
WE HAVE TO DO THEM.
I'M ASKING FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
I HOPE YOU CAN PROVIDE IT TO ME.
SOME OF THEM DID.
SOME OF THEM DIDN'T.
AND, AGAIN, I WANT TO STRESS THE
FACT THAT AS OPPOSED TO A
PREMIER WHO SAYS WELL, I GOT TO
DO WHAT THE 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE
WHO VOTED FOR ME WANT TO DO,
ACTUALLY I COMPLETELY DISAGREE
WITH THAT.
I THINK WHEN YOU BECOME THE
PREMIER OF ONTARIO, YOU HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO ALL THE PEOPLE OF
THE PROVINCE AND YOU HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO FUTURE GENERATIONS
OF THE PROVINCE.
YOU HAVE OBLIGATIONS TO THOSE
WHO ARE YET TO BE BORN.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF
THE TIME WHERE YOU'RE THERE.
AND I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
SAY WELL, LOOK, YOU KNOW, YOU
BROUGHT THE PROVINCE TO THE EDGE
OF BANKRUPTCY.
NOT TRUE.
YOU KNOW, YOU CREATED AN
IMPOSSIBLE ECONOMIC SITUATION.
NOT TRUE.
THE SITUATION IMPROVED.
UNTIL WE WERE DEFEATED IN 1995.
WE ARE WERE THE FASTEST GROWING
ECONOMY IN THE OECD IN 1995.
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T ALWAYS
GET CREDIT FOR THOSE THINGS AND
POLITICS IS ALL ABOUT TIMING.
PRESIDENT CLINTON TOOK OVER IN
'92, '93...

Steve says GOOD TIMING.

Rae says GOOD TIMING.
Mr. CHRETIEN TOOK OVER IN
1993.
GOOD TIMING.
I TOOK OVER IN '89.
BAD TIMING.

Steve says YOUR PREDECESSOR FLOYD
LAUGHREN.

Rae says GREAT GUY.

Steve says HE WILL BE ON AFTER
THIS.
HE SAID BACK THEN GOOD POLICY,
BAD POLITICS.
HE SAID WE'D HAVE LOOKED
POLITICALLY TOUGHER AND BETTER
IF WE'D JUST FIRED TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AND ENJOYED
THE SAVINGS THAT WAY RATHER THAN
TRYING TO SPREAD A LITTLE PAIN
AMONG A LARGER NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
IS HE RIGHT ABOUT THAT?

Rae says COULD WELL BE.

Steve says HE IS NOT SAYING HE
WISHES HE HAD DONE THAT.

Rae says WELL, LOOK, FLOYD
LAUGHREN IS A DEAR FRIEND OF
MINE.
AND IS A... WAS A WONDERFUL,
WONDERFUL COLLEAGUE.
AND AN ABSOLUTE ROCK IN OUR
CABINET AND OUR CAUCUS.
EVERYBODY... I MEAN SOMEBODY
ONCE SAID ABOUT ME HE SAID THE
TROUBLE WITH BOB RAE, HE DOESN'T
HAVE A POPULIST BONE IN HIS
BODY.
I PROBABLY HAVE ONE OR TWO, BUT
NOT THAT MANY.
AND I CAN BE QUITE STUBBORN.
AND PROBABLY SOMETIMES TOO
STUBBORN.
AND I DID... I DID FEEL THAT
ONCE WE KIND OF STAKED OUR GOAL,
WE COULDN'T AFFORD TO BE A BONE
OFF COURSE.
AND I FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT
THE PHILOSOPHICALLY, IF YOU
LIKE, OR BASED ON THE VALUES
THAT WE HAD IN A VERY IMPORTANT
VALUE, I THINK FOR SOCIAL
DEMOCRATS IS THE VALUE OF
SOLIDARITY.
AND IF THERE IS LESS TO GO
AROUND, THEN IT'S FAMILY HOLD
BACK.
AND WE HAD NO CHOICE IN MY VIEW
BUT TO SAY IT'S BETTER TO GIVE
UP SOMETHING TO SAVE SOMEBODY
ELSE'S JOB THAN IT IS TO SAY TO
THE YOUNGER TEACHER WHO IS JUST
COMING IN OR THE YOUNGER NURSE
WHO'S JUST COMING IN: SORRY,
YOU'RE ON THE LOWER END OF THE
SCALE, YOU'RE OUT THE DOOR.
AND I STILL BELIEVE THAT.
AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT I FIND
INTERESTING IS WHEN PRESIDENT
OBAMA GAVE HIS INAUGURAL ADDRESS
IN 2008, HE TALKED ABOUT THE
PRINCIPLES OF THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT.
DIDN'T CALL IT OH, I'M HERE TO
TALK ABOUT BOB RAE'S SOCIAL
CONTRACT.
NO.
WHAT HE DID SAY IS I WANT A
SHOUT OUT FOR THE STEELWORKERS
WHO GAVE UP THEIR JOBS IN ORDER
TO SAVE OTHER JOBS.
BECAUSE THE WHOLE PREMISE OF
EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE TODAY IS
DIFFERENT.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE?
JOB SHARING.
IT'S PART OF THE PLAN.
IT'S PART OF THE INSURANCE PLAN.

Steve says OKAY.
YOU BROUGHT UP BARACK OBAMA.
I WANT TO RAISE THE NAME OF
ANOTHER AMERICAN POLITICIAN.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER.
HAVE YOU BROUGHT THAT UP WITH
HIM?
THEY TRIED IT IN CALIFORNIA.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Rae says I DID.
I JOKED WITH HIM.
I SAID I'M SURE I DON'T KNOW
WHERE YOU GOT YOUR FURLOUGHS
FROM.
HE SAID WHAT ARE YOU TALKING
ABOUT.
I SAID THAT'S WHAT WE DID.
HE SAID REALLY?
VERY INTERESTING.
AND HE SAID FOR A SOCIAL
DEMOCRAT TO DO IT IS REALLY
TOUGH AND IT MAKES YOU A
SHORT-TERM PREMIER.
BUT I COME BACK.
WHEN I WENT INTO THE
PREMIERSHIP, IT WAS A SURPRISE.
YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.
AND I THINK EVERYBODY... AND I
FELT INCREDIBLY LUCKY TO BE IN
OFFICE.
AND THEN AS THE WORLD BEGAN TO
UNFOLD AROUND ME, I SAID YES,
THIS IS A TOUGH LOAD TO CARRY.
BUT I REALLY BELIEVED THAT, YOU
KNOW, THE TEST THAT YOU NEED TO
APPLY IS WHAT YOU DID BUILDING
INFRASTRUCTURE, BUILDING
HOUSING.
KEEPING HEALTH CARE STRONG.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW,
PROVIDING REAL EFFICIENCIES IN
TERMS OF PUBLIC SERVICES, AND,
YES, ASKING PEOPLE TO TAKE LESS.
NOT FIRING PEOPLE.
BUT SAYING TO PEOPLE, SHARE THE
PAIN A BIT.

The caption changes to "Producer: Steve Paikin, @spaikin; Producer: Harrison Lowman, @harrisonlowman."

Steve says WELL, IN THAT CHAIR A
FEW DAYS AGO WAS SOMEBODY NAMED
ANDREA HORWATH WHO IS THE
CURRENT LEADER OF HER MAJESTY'S
LOYAL OPPOSITION.
A JOB YOU ONCE HAD.
AND 25 YEARS AGO THIS MONTH SHE
WAS A PUBLIC SECTOR WORKER IN
THE CITY OF HAMILTON.
SHE EXPERIENCED RAE DAYS AND SHE
TOLD ME IN THAT SEAT: I THOUGHT
IT WAS A REASONABLE WAY TO SAVE
MY COLLEAGUES' JOBS.
SO THERE WE GO. I PUT THAT ON
THE TABLE FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.
Mr. RAE WE THANK YOU FOR
COMING IN AND SHARING YOUR
MEMORIES OF 25 YEARS AGO.

Rae says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

Watch: Revisiting Rae's Days