Transcript: The Agenda's Week in Review | Nov 30, 2018

Steve stands in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.
A wall screen behind him reads "The week in review."

Steve says "THE AGENDA" THIS WEEK
EXAMINED THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT'S NEW SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE PLAN, CAPTURED SOME
OF THE SENTIMENTS OF
FRANCO-ONTARIANS TOWARDS NEW AND
THUS-FAR UNPOPULAR PROVINCIAL
POLICIES, AND REVISITED
RECOMMENDATIONS TO ADDRESS THE
ROOT CAUSES OF YOUTH VIOLENCE.
"THE AGENDA'S" WEEK IN REVIEW
BEGINS LOOKING AT HOW FORD
HANDLED GM THIS WEEK.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with guests in the studio.
A caption on screen reads "Early struggles for the Ford government. GM Plant Closure."

Then, it changes to "Peter Loewen. University of Toronto."

Peter is in his mid-forties, with short gray hair and a boxed beard. He's wearing a light gray suit, blue shirt and checked blue tie.

He says THE STORY IS PEOPLE AREN'T
BUYING CHEVY IMPALAS AND BUYING
LESS CADILLACS AND GM IS TRYING
TO DOUBLE DOWN ON
ELECTRIFICATION, AND THEY'RE NOT
GOING TO DO THIS OUT OF OSHAWA.
THEY WOULD HAVE MAYBE DONE IT
OUT OF OSHAWA BUT THEY'VE CHOSEN
TO DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
THOSE DECISIONS WERE MADE SOME
TIME AGO, BUT THE POLITICAL
TRICK OF BLAMING CURRENT
PROBLEMS ON THE PREVIOUS
GOVERNMENT AND THE CONDITIONS
THEY SET WORKED FOR A CERTAIN
PERIOD OF TIME.
IT'S GOING TO STOP WORKING AT
SOME POINT.
THE PREMIER CAN USE THIS FOR A
WHILE, BUT HE'S GOT TO MAKE AN
ARGUMENT ABOUT WHY IT IS WITH
POSITIVE RESULTS OPENING UP
ONTARIO TO BUSINESS.
HE CAN MAYBE PIN THIS ONE ON THE
LAST GOVERNMENT.
IT GETS TOUGH IF YOU TRY TO PIN
THE NEXT TWO OR THREE ON THE
PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT.

Steve says YOU HAVE COVERED
TRANSITIONS BETWEEN ONE PARTY
GOVERNING AND ANOTHER.
WHEN DID THE PERIOD END AT WHICH
YOU ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO SAY
THAT WAS ALL THEIR FAULT, WE'RE
THE NEW GUYS HERE?

The caption changes to "Robert Benzie. Toronto Star."

Robert is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a gray plaid suit, blue gingham shirt, and striped red white and blue tie.

He says I DON'T KNOW, KATHLEEN WYNNE
AND THE LIBERALS WERE TALKING
ABOUT MIKE HARRIS AND THE
CONSERVATIVES FOR 15 YEARS ON.
YOU USE THAT ARGUMENT FOR A LONG
TIME.
I THINK PETER'S RIGHT THAT IT
LOSES ITS RESONANCE AFTER A
WHILE, BUT TO MELISSA'S POINT,
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS A
DECISION THAT WAS NOT MADE.
IT'S NOT MADE BECAUSE DOUG FORD
WAS ELECTED PREMIER, BUT ALSO
NOT BECAUSE HYDRO PRICES ARE
HIGH IN ONTARIO RELATIVELY
SPEAKING.
FORD TALKED TO GENERAL MOTORS
AND GENERAL MOTORS DIDN'T
MENTION ELECTRICITY PRICES OR
MENTION THE MINIMUM WAGE
INCREASE.
THIS IS ABOUT A GLOBAL
RESTRUCTURING.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THIS... WHETHER
ONTARIO'S A GOOD JURISDICTION TO
DO BUSINESS.

The caption changes to "Brittany Andrew-Amofah. Broadbent Institute."
Then, it changes again to "Internal conflict."

Brittany is in her thirties, with long curly black hair pulled back. She's wearing a black cardigan over a colourful blouse.

She says THERE'S BEEN A NUMBER OF
THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN
THIS GOVERNMENT THAT CALL INTO
QUESTION ITS GOVERNING STYLE.
IT'S VERY ABRUPT.
IT HAS CANCELLED PROJECTS
SUDDENLY.
IT HAS LEFT MANY PEOPLE IN
LIMBO, AND I THINK ITS GOVERNING
STYLE IS ACTUALLY MANUFACTURING
A CHAOS IN A CERTAIN WAY.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Robert says YES, I THINK TO THAT POINT, I
THINK THAT'S PART OF WHY
PEOPLE... TORIES ARE COMING TO
US AND TALKING ABOUT IT.
THESE AREN'T RUMOURS.
WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR
THIS STUFF.
WE'RE FINDING US WITH IT, AND
THE STAR IS THE ONLY OUTLET
REPORTING THE DISSENSION IN THE
RANKS.
"THE GLOBE AND MAIL" IS
REPORTING IT.
YOU'VE HAD INKLINGS OF IT IN
YOUR PIECES, STEVE.
THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON, AND
I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE
AROUND THAT PARTY WHO ARE NOT
HAPPY WITH SOME FOLKS IN THE
PREMIER'S OFFICE.
NOT WITH THE PREMIER HIMSELF WHO
IS RUNNING VERY POPULAR WITH HIS
CAUCUS AND HIS STAFF.
HE TREATS PEOPLE VERY WELL, BUT
HIS CHIEF OF STAFF IS CAUSING A
LOT OF PROBLEMS FOR THE PREMIER.
I MEAN, GETTING IN A YELLING
MATCH WITH MARKHAM MPP WHO
RAISED A VERY LEGITIMATE POINT
ABOUT WHY AREN'T WE IN THE LOOP
ON THIS AS AN MPP.
YOU HAVE TO TELL THE CAUCUS
ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.
EVEN MR. FORD WAS TAKEN ABACK AT
HIS OWN STAFF MEMBER YELLING AT
AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT.
I KNOW THAT EVERY GOVERNMENT...
MARIE WOULD REMEMBER THIS.
WHEN THE PREMIER'S OFFICE STAFF
WOULD BE MAD AT A MINISTER OR
MAD AT AN MPP, BUT NEVER TO...
IN A QUASI-PUBLIC WAY...

Steve says WELL, LET'S FIND OUT.
WAS IT EVER THE CASE IN THE
CAUCUS MEETINGS THAT YOU
ATTENDED OR THE CABINET MEETINGS
THAT YOU ATTENDED THAT A STAFFER
FOR THE PREMIER, CHIEF OF STAFF,
PRINCIPAL SECRETARY, SOMEBODY
LIKE THAT, UPBRAIDED AN ELECTED
OFFICIAL IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY
ELSE?

The caption changes to "Marie Bountrogianni. Ryerson University."

Marie is in her fifties, with straight black hair pulled back. She's wearing a patterned blue blazer, a printed black scarf, and a pearl necklace.

She says NOT IN THE EIGHT YEARS THAT I
WAS THERE IN OPPOSITION AND IN
CABINET.

Steve says IT NEVER HAPPENED?

Marie says IT NEVER HAPPENED BY A
STAFFER.
NOW DID WE ARGUE WITH EACH
OTHER?

Steve says SURE.

Marie says OF COURSE.
BUT NEVER BY A STAFFER.
IN FACT, I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER
STAFFERS REALLY SPEAKING MUCH IN
THOSE MEETINGS.
IT WAS THE PREMIER AND THE MPPs
AND CAUCUS AND CABINET AND THE
PREMIER IN CABINET.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Peter says FOR MR. FORD, WHAT I THINK
WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, TO BE
CHARITABLE ABOUT IT, RIGHT, IS
AS EVERYONE SAYS AND REPORTED IN
THE STORIES HE'S ACTUALLY A GOOD
LISTENER.
HE'S ATTENTIVE TO HIS CAUCUS.
THE ISSUE IS HE HASN'T BEEN A
PARLIAMENTARY POLITICIAN FOR
VERY LONG.
MR. HARRIS FROM 1990, 1995 IN
OPPOSITION GOT USED TO BUILDING
UP A CAUCUS, BRINGING THEM ALONG
ON THEIR POLICY MISSION.
IT'S A TEAM SPORT.
MR. FORD CAME IN AT THE LAST
MINUTE, AND I DON'T MEAN THAT
PEJORATIVELY, HE CAME IN AT THE
LAST HOUR, WON THE LEADERSHIP
POSITION FAIR AND SQUARE, AND
THEN WAS IN THE POSITION OF
HAVING TO RUN IN THE ELECTION
RIGHT AWAY.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Peter continues I SUSPECT WHAT'S GOING ON IS
HE'S JUST NOT CULTURALLY
ATTENTIVE TO HOW MUCH ATTENTION
A CAUCUS NEEDS.
TO HAVE A STAFFER UPGRADING
PEOPLE DURING A CAUCUS MEETING
WHEN THAT STAFFER IS NOT A
MEMBER OF THE CAUCUS IS AGAINST
THE NORMS, AND IT'S PROBABLY
JUST AGAINST GOOD COMMON SENSE
IN TERMS OF BEING A CHIEF
EXECUTIVE.

The caption changes to "Melissa Lantsman. Hill+Knowlton Strategies."

Melissa is in her thirties, with dark hair in a pompadour, cropped at the temples. She's wearing a black printed bomber jacket over a black shirt.

She says THESE STORIES ABOUT CAUCUS
AND ABOUT THE CHIEF OF STAFF ACT
TO DELEGITIMIZE THE PREMIER.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

Peter says NO, THEY DON'T.

The caption changes to "Rookie mistakes."

Melissa says AND I THINK HE HAS A
DIFFERENT STYLE.
I THINK HE'S GOING FASTER THAN
YOU PROBABLY EXPECTED, BUT HE'S
DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE
WAS GOING TO DO.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

In another edition of The Agenda, a female guest speaks.

A caption on screen reads "La résistance: Francophones unite. A change of heart."

Then, it changes to "Stéphanie Chouinard. Royal Military College."

Stéphanie is in her thirties, with long straight blond hair. She's wearing glasses, a black blazer and a dark green shirt.

She says THIS BACKTRACK WHILE SALUTED
WAS DEFINITELY NOT SUFFICIENT IN
THE FACE OF THE FACT THAT THE
FRENCH LANGUAGE SERVICE
COMMISSIONER WAS NOT GAINING HIS
INDEPENDENCE BACK AND THE FRENCH
LANGUAGE UNIVERSITY IN TORONTO
WAS NOT BACK ON THE TABLE, WHICH
WERE THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT
CUTS.

Steve says SERGE, WHY DO YOU THINK THIS
BLEW UP AS QUICKLY AS IT DID?

The caption changes to "Serge Miville. Laurentian University."

Serge is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with receding gray hair. He's wearing black-framed glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and purple bowtie.

He says WELL, HISTORICALLY FRANCO
ONTARIANS HAVE NEVER SEEN
THEMSELVES AS BEING A MINORITY
LIKE ANY OTHER, AND THEY HAVE
HISTORICALLY TRIED TO CREATE
SOCIETAL INSTITUTIONS THAT
PERMIT THEM TO TRANSMIT AND
PRODUCE CULTURE AND TO MAINTAIN
THEMSELVES IN TIME.
THEY'VE ALSO HAVE A LONG HISTORY
OF HAVING TO BATTLE WITH THE
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT IN ORDER
TO MAINTAIN AUTONOMY AND
GOVERNANCE OF THESE
INSTITUTIONS.
WE'VE SEEN THIS TIME AND TIME
AGAIN THROUGHOUT HISTORY, AND
MOST NOTABLY IN THE MONFORT
FIGHT BACK IN 1997 UNDER THE
PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

Steve says YEAH, LET'S BRING THAT
UP, BECAUSE THE MONFORT
HOSPITAL, WHICH IS THE
FRENCH-LANGUAGE HOSPITAL IN THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, IN OTTAWA,
20 YEARS AGO THE MIKE HARRIS
GOVERNMENT TRIED TO CLOSE IT.
THE COMMUNITY RESPONDED.
THAT HOSPITAL'S STILL OPEN.
DO YOU SEE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN
THEN AND NOW?

The caption changes to "François Bolieau. French Language Services Commissioner."

François is in his mid-fifties, with short white hair and a goatee. He's wearing glasses, a black suit, blue gingham shirt, and striped black tie.

He says THERE COULD BE SIMILARITIES.
ACTUALLY, OUR GUESTS CAN BE
BETTER OFF TO SPEAK ABOUT THAT
BECAUSE THAT'S MORE ON THE
POLICY SIDE AND MORE OF WHAT THE
COMMUNITY WILL BRING ABOUT.
BUT CERTAINLY THE FACT THAT
THERE IS A CLOSURE OF ANY
POSSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF
THEIR GROWING ISSUE OF THE LACK
OF POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION IN
CENTRAL SOUTHWEST PART OF THE
PROVINCE, WHICH IS THE PART OF
THE PROVINCE WHERE FRANCOPHONES
ARE GROWING IN MASS NUMBERS.
WE'RE GROWING REALLY FAST HERE
IN TORONTO, IN THE GTA, AND WE
DO HAVE A LACK OF POST-SECONDARY
EDUCATION.
SO THE CUT OF THE FRENCH
UNIVERSITY IS FELT DEEPLY.
AND FOR MY OFFICE, WELL, I'LL
LET OTHERS SPEAK ABOUT THAT, BUT
CERTAINLY THE POINT TO
ILLUMINATE THE POSITION OF
INDEPENDENCE, WELL, WE HAD AN
INSTITUTION... FRANCO-ONTARIANS
HAVE AN INSTITUTION NOW WITHIN
THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.
IT'S NOT JUST SYMBOLIC.
IT'S A QUESTION OF BEING ABLE TO
DO OUR OWN... FOR THE
COMMISSIONER TO HAVE OUR OWN
PRIORITIES AND TO DECIDE ON OUR
OWN BUDGET.

Steve says JUST SO I'M CLEAR, THE
FACT THAT THEY HAVE MAINTAINED
YOUR POSITION, NOT STANDALONE,
BUT INSIDE THE OMBUDSMAN'S
OFFICE, THAT'S NOT ADEQUATE FOR
YOU?

François says ACTUALLY IT'S NOT MY
POSITION.
IT'S ANOTHER POSITION, BECAUSE
MY OWN POSITION, THOUGH THE
TITLE SEEMS TO BE THE SAME...

Steve says IT DOES.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

François says IT'S NOT ME.
IT CANNOT BE ME.
I'M AN OFFICER OF PARLIAMENT,
AND THAT POSITION WILL BE CUT.
NOW WHEN THEY SAID IN THE BILL
57 THAT ALL EMPLOYEES, WHICH I'M
NOT, WILL BE TRANSFERRED TO THE
OMBUDSMAN'S OFFICE, THEN ONE OF
THEM WILL BE, MOST PROBABLY, BE
THE COMMISSIONER.
SO IT CANNOT BE ME BECAUSE I'M
NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF THE FRENCH
LANGUAGE SERVICE OFFICE BECAUSE
I'M AN EMPLOYEE OF THE
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

Steve says THAT'S RIGHT.
YOU REPORT TO THE PROVINCIAL
PARLIAMENT?

François says CORRECT.

Steve says I UNDERSTAND.
SERGE, LET'S DO... I WOULD LIKE
TO PICK UP ON THE MONT FORT
EXAMPLE, BECAUSE 20 YEARS AGO
WHEN THE HARRIS GOVERNMENT TRIED
TO CLOSE THE HOSPITAL, THERE WAS
AN ENORMOUS ERUPTION, VERY MUCH
TO THE LIKES OF WHAT WE'RE
SEEING RIGHT NOW.
IN THAT CASE THE GOVERNMENT OF
THE DAY STOOD DOWN AND THE
HOSPITAL SURVIVED.
WHAT DO YOU SEE HAPPENING THIS
TIME?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Serge says WELL, THEY STOOD DOWN, BUT
ONLY AFTER GOING THROUGH COURTS.
NOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED QUITE A
BIT SINCE 1997.
SOCIAL MEDIA BEING ONE OF THE
WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE OFFERING UP
RESISTANCE AND CIRCULATING
IDEAS.
THERE'S ALSO THE FACT THAT
CONTRARY TO 1997, WHERE THERE
WAS ACTUALLY A BOARD OF
INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE STUDYING
THE SERVICES IN... THE HEALTH
SERVICES IN ONTARIO, THIS
GOVERNMENT DID NOT CONSULT WITH
FRANCO ONTARIANS AND DID NOT
CONSULT WITH THE POPULATION WITH
REGARDS TO THESE CUTS.
AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE
SORE POINTS AND PART OF THE
REASON WHY PEOPLE REACTED SO
QUICKLY TOWARDS THIS.
AND RIGHT NOW, THE PEOPLE IN THE
FRANCO-ONTARIAN COMMITTEE ARE
TRYING TO FIND A POLITICAL
SOLUTION TO PUT THIS PAST US.
CURRENTLY THE POLITICAL SOLUTION
PROPOSED WITH THE AMENDMENTS
AREN'T CUTTING IT.
PEOPLE AREN'T BUYING IT, AND I
THINK THE GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE
TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
WITH THAT BECAUSE THEY MAY
FACE... AND THIS IS A REAL
POSSIBILITY, THEY MAY FACE COURT
BATTLES IN THE FUTURE SHOULD THE
FRANCO-ONTARIAN COMMUNITY FEEL
AS THOUGH THE MOVEMENT IS NOT
SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with five guests.
A caption on screen reads "The PC plan for social assistance. tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Steve says LET'S GET INTO
SOMETHING VERY TICKLISH HERE,
AND THAT IS IT'S ALMOST FOUR
DECADES AGO WHEN RONALD REAGAN
WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES THAT HE TALKED
ABOUT THE SO-CALLED WELFARE
QUEEN CHO SHOWED UP IN HER
CADILLAC TO PICK UP HER WELFARE
CHEQUE, AND PROBABLY SINCE THEN
THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF
ALLEGATIONS ABOUT WASTE, FRAUD
AND ABUSE OF THE WELFARE SYSTEM
AND ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO
ARE ON IT DON'T REALLY NEED TO
BE ON IT BUT ARE GAMING THE
SYSTEM.
THERE WAS NEVER ANY EVIDENCE
INCIDENTALLY THAT THAT WELFARE
QUEEN OF RONALD REAGAN'S
ACTUALLY EXISTED, BUT THE STORY
WAS TOO IRRESISTIBLE NOT TO
CAMPAIGN ON.
HOW MUCH ABUSE IS HAPPENING IN
THE SYSTEM TODAY?
SUSAN, START US OFF.

The caption changes to "Susan Cada. Toronto Council Fire Native Cultural Centre."
Then, it changes again to "Use and abuse."

Susan is in her late forties, with short dark hair. She's wearing glasses, a red shirt, and a pendant necklace.

She says UMM, I'M GOING TO SAY THAT
THERE PROBABLY IS ABUSE IN THE
SYSTEM.
THERE HAS TO BE.
JUST BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF FUNDS
THAT A PERSON GETS IS NOT... YOU
CAN'T LIVE ON THAT.
THE COST OF AN AVERAGE
ONE-BEDROOM HOUSE, ONE-BEDROOM
APARTMENT IN TORONTO IS, LIKE,
1500 DOLLARS, BUT THE MAX YOU
GET TOTAL, THIS INCLUDES MONEY
FOR FOOD AND FOR CLOTHING AND
OTHER EXPENSES IS JUST OVER
700 dollars.
HOW CAN ONE SURVIVE ON THAT?
SO UNFORTUNATELY PEOPLE ARE
LOOKING FOR OTHER WAYS, AND THAT
NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING DONE
SO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T LOOKING
FOR THOSE OTHER WAYS.
THEY ARE TRYING TO FIND WORK AND
STUFF LIKE THAT.

Steve says OKAY, LET ME GO TO DEB
HUTTON NEXT.
WHEN YOU WERE IN GOVERNMENT,
WHEN YOU WERE ADVISING PREMIERS,
WHEN YOU PRESUMABLY HAD A CHANCE
TO LOOK INTO THIS, HOW MUCH
WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE WAS
THERE, ACTUALLY?

The caption changes to "Deb Hutton. QP Briefing."

Deb is in her fifties, with short blond hair. She's wearing a V-necked dark purple shirt.

She says ACTUALLY I'M GOING TO
SEPARATE THEM OUT A BIT.
BECAUSE THERE IS FRAUD IN THE
SYSTEM, WHICH IS COMPLETE FRAUD,
AND I'M NOT PRETENDING IT'S
RAMPANT, BUT THERE IS FRAUD IN
THE SYSTEM.

Steve says WHO'S DEFRAUDING WHOM?

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Deb says WELL, I THINK THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO MAKE CLAIMS THAT
AREN'T TRUE, AND THAT IS TRUE
FRAUD.
AGAIN, I'M NOT SUGGESTS THAT IS
A BIG CHUNK OF THE SYSTEM AT
ALL, BUT THEN THERE IS WHAT
SUSAN JUST SPOKE ABOUT, WHICH IS
ABUSING THE SYSTEM BECAUSE IT
ALLOWS YOU TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM.
BECAUSE EITHER RULES ARE SUCH A
PATCHWORK OR OUR CASEWORKERS ARE
OVERLOADED AND CAN'T ACTUALLY
MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO
MOST NEED THE HELP ARE GETTING
IT, ET CETERA.
SO THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT THAN
FRAUD.
AND I THINK THOSE WHO WORK IN
THE SYSTEM WOULD TELL YOU THAT
FOR THE VERY SEASONS SUSAN JUST
SPOKE ABOUT THAT IS FAIRLY
RAMPANT.
NOW YOU CAN ARGUE... YOU CAN
ARGUE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S OKAY.
I ARGUE IT'S NOT OKAY.
THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED BY
GOVERNMENT TO WORK A CERTAIN
WAY, AND IT SHOULD WORK THAT
WAY.

Steve says OKAY.

Another guest says I WANT TO JUMP IN HERE. I NEED TO JUMP IN.

Steve says GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Mary Marrone. Income Security Advocacy Centre."

Mary is in her fifties, with shoulder-length curly blond hair. She's wearing a black cardigan over a silver shirt.

She says ABUSE IS NOT RAMPANT.
WHAT YOU HAVE IS A SERIES OF
RULES THAT PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING
TO UNDERSTAND, INCLUDING THE
CASEWORKERS, AND THE STAT THAT
IS OFTEN BROUGHT UP, IT'S THE
NUMBER OF OVERPAYMENTS THAT ARE
IN THE SYSTEM OF PEOPLE OWING
MONEY BACK TO GOVERNMENT.
AND THEY TEND TO CONFLATE AN
OVERPAYMENT WITH ABUSE OR FRAUD.

Steve says CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN
HOW THAT WORKS?
WHY WOULD THERE BE AN
OVERPAYMENT?

Mary says THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO
GENERATE OVERPAYMENTS.
ANY MONTH THAT A DOLLAR COMES TO
A HOUSEHOLD THAT IS ON SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE, THAT IS AN
OVERPAYMENT IN THE NEXT MONTH.
PEOPLE HAVE TO REPORT ANY SOURCE
OF INCOME, EVERY MONTH, AND
REPORT IT IN, AND IF IT GETS
REPORTED IN IT'S DEDUCTED FROM
YOUR NEXT CHEQUE.
THERE ARE MANY SITUATIONS WHERE
PEOPLE REPORT IN SOURCES OF
INCOME.
IT DOESN'T GET INPUT INTO THE
COMPUTER, AND THEN ALL OF A
SUDDEN THEY OWE 2,000 dollars, 3,000 dollars,
4,000 dollars.
SO THESE ARE ERRORS MADE BY
CASEWORKERS.
SOMETIMES IT'S ABOUT DIFFERENT
CASEWORKERS HAVING DIFFERENT
DEFINITIONS OF HOW THE RULES
WORK.
ONE CASEWORKER TELLS YOU
SOMETHING IS OKAY.
YOU GET A NEW CASEWORKER AND
IT'S LIKE THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE
HAPPENED.
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE GOT THAT
MONEY.
YOU OWE US 20,000 dollars.

Steve says THAT MUCH?

Mary says YES, SOMETIMES 50.
SO THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
AND IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PAY BACK,
BUT THE BIGGER ISSUE IS HOW
OFTEN IS GOVERNMENT COLLECTING
MONEY ON THOSE OVERPAYMENTS THAT
ARE NOT ACTUALLY OWED?
IT'S THE COMPUTER THAT GENERATES
THE OVERPAYMENT.
THE COMPUTER DECIDES WHETHER OR
NOT YOU OWE MONEY.
AND THE LETTER IS SENT OUT IS
GENERATED BY THE COMPUTER.
UNLESS YOU APPEAL, I'M NOT SURE
ANY HUMAN BEING EVER LOOKS AT
THOSE NUMBERS TO SEE IF THEY ARE
ACCURATE.
WHEN YOU APPEAL, WE DISCOVERED
THAT OFTEN THOSE NUMBERS ARE
COMPLETELY INACCURATE, AND THEY
GET REDUCED OR THEY DISAPPEAR.

Steve says OKAY.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Mary says OR IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE
ERROR THAT THE APPEAL TRIBUNAL
WILL SAY YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO
PAY THIS BECAUSE THE SYSTEM MADE
A MISTAKE.
SO I THINK... AND IF YOU DON'T
APPEAL, I'M NOT SURE A HUMAN
EVER LOOKS AT IT, BUT THEY START
COLLECTING, AND THAT'S A
COLLECTIBLE DEBT.
SO I WOULD LIKE THE AUDITOR
GENERAL TO LOOK AT HOW OFTEN IS
GOVERNMENT COLLECTING MONEY FROM
RECIPIENTS OF SOCIAL ASSISTANCE
THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY NOT
ENTITLED TO.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with different guests.

A caption on screen reads "The roots of youth violence. Uncharted terrain."

Steve says THESE ARE THE LATEST
HOMICIDE STATS AND THE NUMBERS
ON THE NUMBERS OF SHOOTINGS IN
THE CITY.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Homicides in Toronto."

A bar chart shows the number of homicides each year from 2015 to 2018. The number for 2018 is much higher than the previous years.

Steve reads data from the slate and says
THIS IS AS OF NOVEMBER 26 OF
THIS YEAR, AND THIS DOES INCLUDE
THE YONGE STREET VAN ATTACK AND
THE DANFORTH SHOOTING, AND YOU
SEE HOMICIDES, YOU SEE THE
AVERAGE?
THE CAPITAL CITY IS WELL ABOVE
AVERAGE RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF
HOMICIDES IN THE CITY THIS YEAR,
AND IF WE FLIP TO THE NEXT CHART
AND WE GO TO SHOOTINGS, YOU CAN
SEE AGAIN WE'RE ABOVE AVERAGE.
NOT AS HIGH YET AS IT WAS IN
2016, BUT OF COURSE THE YEAR IS
NOT OVER YET.
AND WE SHOULD ALSO SAY THIS IS
NOT JUST A PROBLEM IN TORONTO.
THERE ARE STATS THAT SAY
CANADA'S HOMICIDE RATE LAST YEAR
WAS THE HIGHEST IT'S BEEN IN A
DECADE BECAUSE OF A SPIKE IN
GANG VIOLENCE AND A SPIKE IN
GANG SHOOTINGS.

Another bar chart shows the number of shootings in Toronto, higher in 2018 than in 2015.

Steve continues Jon, YOU SEE THESE NUMBERS.
WHAT POPS OUT TO YOU ON THOSE
NUMBERS?

The caption changes to "Jon Burnside. Former Toronto City Councillor."
Then, it changes again to "The new normal?"

Jon is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a light gray suit, blue shirt, and yellow tie.

He says WHAT POPS OUT TO ME ACTUALLY
ARE THE NUMBER OF SHOOTINGS.
AND WE LIKE TO LOOK AT NUMBER OF
DEATHS, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY
IMPORTANT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT
REALLY TELLS THE FULL STORY,
WHICH IS THAT SINCE THE YEAR OF
THE GUN 2005, THE NUMBER OF
SHOOTINGS HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN
INCREASING STEADILY.
SO WHILE THE NUMBER OF DEATHS
LOOKS LIKE A BIT OF AN ANOMALY,
THE TREND IS... HAS BEEN UPWARD,
AND I THINK IT'S OUR INABILITY
TO DEAL WITH THAT THAT'S
OBVIOUSLY A HUGE ISSUE, AND
MR. CURLING'S REPORT, WHEN I
READ IT, I READ IT THIS WEEK, IT
COULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN
YESTERDAY, EXCEPT FOR THE SOCIAL
MEDIA THAT WAS MISSING.
IT WAS SO RELEVANT AND TOUCHED
ON EVERY POINT, IN MY OPINION,
THAT WE'RE FACING TODAY THAT
WE'RE FACING 10 YEARS AGO.

Steve says IF YOU DO THE MATH,
IT'S ABOUT A SHOOTING EVERY DAY.
IS THAT JUST THE NEW NORMAL FOR
TORONTO AND WE HAVE TO ACCEPT
IT?

Jon says WELL, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE
TO ACCEPT IT.
HAS IT BECOME THE NEW NORMAL,
UNFORTUNATELY IT WOULD SEEM TO
BE THAT WAY.
IF YOU LOOKED AT A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO I THINK IT WAS ABOUT
350 SHOOTINGS, SO WE'RE IN THAT
RANGE, BUT IT HAS BEEN GOING UP.
THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE BRING
IT BACK DOWN.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S THE
VEXING ISSUE.

Steve says WELL, YOU KNOW,
ANNETTE, DO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT
THIS AS THE NEW NORMAL?

The caption changes to "Annette Bailey. Ryerson University."

Annette is in her forties, with short-cropped black hair. She's wearing a red plaid blazer over a red blouse, and a white stone necklace.

She says WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S...
WHEN I LOOK AT THE GRAPH ACROSS
THE YEARS, I DON'T NECESSARILY
SEE THAT THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT
SPIKE IN GUN VIOLENCE IN
TORONTO.
IN FACT, IN 2016 WE HAD MORE
SHOOTINGS THAN WE HAVE THIS
YEAR, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IF
WE ARE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS
IT'S ONLY ABOUT 47 DEATHS RIGHT
NOW WITH 30 SOMETHING
SHOOTINGS... 300 AND SOMETHING
SHOOTINGS.
BUT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING NEW.
THIS IS NOT AN EMERGING TREND.
IT'S WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IN
TORONTO FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
THE ISSUE IS THAT THE SHOOTINGS
ARE BECOMING MORE PUBLIC.
THEY ARE TAKING PLACE IN PUBLIC
SPACES.
SO WE'RE SEEING THAT THEY'RE
HAPPENING MORE LET'S SAY ON THE
DANFORTH SHOOTING.
IF YOU REMEMBER BACK IN 2012,
THE EATON'S CENTRE SHOOTING.
THE YONGE AND DUNDAS SHOOTING.
SO IT'S... THIS HAS BEEN
HAPPENING IN MARGINALIZED,
DISADVANTAGED, PRIORITIZED
NEIGHBOURHOODS FOR MANY, MANY
YEARS, AND WE'VE SEEN
CUMULATIVELY OVER THE YEARS
HUNDREDS OF PARTICULARLY
RACIALIZED YOUTH DIE TO GUN
VIOLENCE.
NOW THERE'S A MEDIA FRENZY
BECAUSE IT'S BECOMING MORE
PUBLIC.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says IT'S MOVED INTO MORE
PUBLIC PLACES.

Annette says IT'S MOVED INTO MORE PUBLIC
SPACES SO THE PUBLIC THINK, OH,
MY GOODNESS, THERE'S A SPIKE,
THERE'S AN INCREASE IN GUN
VIOLENCE, BUT THE NUMBERS ARE
NOT REALLY SAYING THAT IF YOU
REALLY TRACK BACKWARDS.
STATISTICS CANADA HAS SHOWN THAT
IN URBANIZED... OR CITIES, URBAN
CITIES, THERE'S BEEN
CUMULATIVELY IN THE URBANIZED
CITIES IN CANADA AN INCREASE.
IT SAYS THERE'S ABOUT AN 80 percent
INCREASE, BUT IF WE'RE JUST
LOOKING AT TORONTO, THERE'S A
SLIGHT AMOUNT IN THE DEATH THAT
HAS TAKEN PLACE THIS YEAR, BUT
NOT IN THE AMOUNT OF SHOOTINGS,
PER SE.
SO YOU KNOW, YOU START... YOU
HAVE TO START TO THINK ABOUT
WHAT MESSAGES HAVE BEEN SENT
THROUGH THE MEDIA TO HELP... TO
LET PEOPLE GET THIS IDEA THAT
NOW WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING
BECAUSE GUN VIOLENCE IS A
PROBLEM.

Steve says WE GOT SOMETHING IN
THE MEDIA... I HEAR YOU, BUT WE
GOT SOMEBODY IN THE MEDIA RIGHT
BESIDE YOU.
YOU WANT TO PICK UP THE STORY?

The caption changes to "Jennifer Pagliaro. Toronto Star."

Jennifer is in her thirties, with chin-length straight brown hair. She's wearing a black blazer and shirt.

She says I THINK WHAT ANNETTE IS
SAYING IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
I THINK WHEN YOU BACK OUT AND
LOOK AT A 10-YEAR OR 20-YEAR
TREND, YOU SEE THE
CRIMINOLOGISTS REALLY CALL IT A
PEAKS AND VALLEYS SITUATION, AND
THE ONLY GUARANTEED THING I'VE
EXPERIENCED WITH GUN VIOLENCE IS
THAT IF THERE IS A PEAK THERE
WILL EVENTUALLY BE A VALLEY AND
WE WILL RETURN TO A PEAK AGAIN,
AND I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE WE
STILL AREN'T DOING SOMETHING
ADEQUATE ABOUT THESE ROOT CAUSES
OF YOUTH VIOLENCE.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Jennifer continues
YOU KNOW, TALKING TO YOUTH
WORKERS AND SOCIAL WORKERS, THEY
SAY ALL THE TIME, YOU KNOW, WE
TELL PEOPLE THERE'S GOING TO BE
ANOTHER SUMMER OF THE GUN.
IT'S COMING BACK.
WE'RE COMING BACK AROUND AGAIN,
BUT YET THEY STILL CAN'T GET
ADEQUATE FUNDING.
THEY CAN'T GET RESOURCES OR
SUPPORT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

The clips end and Steve stands in the studio alone.

He says AND THAT IS "THE
AGENDA'S" WEEK IN REVIEW FOR
THIS FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 30TH,
2018.
YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THOSE
CONVERSATIONS IN THEIR ENTIRETY
ON OUR WEBSITE,
AT TVO.ORG, ON OUR YOUTUBE
CHANNEL AT YOUTUBE.COM/THEAGENDA
AND ON OUR TWITTER FEED, THAT'S
TWITTER.COM/THEAGENDA.

Watch: The Agenda's Week in Review