Transcript: Ontario's Medical Future | May 22, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Ontario's medical future."
Then, it changes to "Ontario 2018 election."

Steve says WHILE PEOPLE OFTEN
MISTAKENLY THINK THAT WE HAVE
FREE HEALTH CARE IN THIS
PROVINCE, IT'S IN FACT THE
BIGGEST LINE ITEM IN THE BUDGET
EVERY YEAR, BY A LONG SHOT.
FOR 2018, IT'S PROJECTED TO BE
AN OUTLAY OF MORE THAN
61 BILLION DOLLARS.
THAT MAKES IT A VITAL ISSUE IN
EVERY ELECTION, INCLUDING THIS ONE.
LET'S FIND OUT WHAT THE PARTIES
HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT, WITH:
DEB MATTHEWS, SHE IS FORMER
MINISTER OF HEALTH AND LONG-TERM
CARE, CO-CHAIR OF THE LIBERAL
CAMPAIGN, AND THE FORMER MPP FOR
LONDON NORTH CENTRE...

Deb is in her late forties, with blond hair in a short bob. She's wearing a black shirt.

Steve continues CHRISTINE ELLIOTT, FORMER
ONTARIO PATIENT OMBUDSMAN AND
THE PC CANDIDATE FOR
NEWMARKET-AURORA...

Christine is in her fifties, with long wavy blond hair. She's wearing a green blazer over a white shirt.

Steve continues FRANCE GELINAS, THE FORMER NDP
HEALTH CRITIC FOR ELEVEN YEARS
AND CANDIDATE FOR NICKEL BELT...

France is in her fifties, with short blond hair. She's wearing a spotted green blazer over a yellow shirt.

Steve continues AND MIKE SCHREINER, LEADER OF
THE GREEN PARTY OF ONTARIO AND
THE CANDIDATE FOR THE GREENS IN GUELPH.

Mike is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and striped green tie.

Steve continues IT'S GOOD TO HAVE ALL FOUR OF
YOU AROUND THIS TABLE HERE.
GREEN... I GUESS YOU DIDN'T GET
THE MEMO.

[LAUGHTER]

Deb says THE ROYAL WEDDING, RIGHT?

Steve says CLEARLY THE COLOUR
OF THE DAY FOR GUESTS.
IN ANY EVENT, I WANT TO START,
BEFORE WE GET TO WHAT YOU ALL
HAVE ON OFFER AND WE'LL HAVE A
GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, I
WANT TO GET A SENSE... LET'S
START WITH THE FORMER HEALTH
MINISTER HERE... ON HOW YOU FEEL
ONTARIO IS DOING JUST IN TERMS
OF THE OVERALL HEALTH OF THE
POPULATION.
WE KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE,
AUSTRALIA'S LIFE EXPECTANCY IS
LONGER THAN OURS.
IN CANADA ITSELF, BRITISH
COLUMBIANS HAVE A LONGER LIFE
EXPECTANCY THAN ONTARIANS DO.
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THAT FRONT?

The caption changes to "Deb Matthews. Liberal Campaign Co-Chair."
Then, it changes again to "Preventative measures."

Deb says WE'RE IN VERY
GOOD SHAPE IN TERMS OF THE
HEALTH OF OUR PEOPLE.
THERE'S DEFINITELY MORE TO DO.
IF YOU LOOK AT SURVIVAL RATES
FOR CANCER AND VARIOUS DISEASES,
WE'RE ACTUALLY DOING VERY WELL.
BUT IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
DO BETTER, HAVE A HEALTHIER
POPULATION?
ABSOLUTELY, YES.
THAT'S WHY FOCUSING ON THINGS
LIKE REDUCING SMOKING RATES IS
IMPORTANT, INCREASING
VACCINATION IS HELPFUL TO KEEP
US HEALTHIER.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS WE
NEED TO DO TO BE AS HEALTHY AS
WE CAN BE.

Steve says WHERE DO YOU SEE US
FALLING SHORT AT THE MOMENT?

The caption changes to "Christine Elliott. PC Candidate, Newmarket-Aurora."

Christine says WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A
STRATEGY FOR CHRONIC DISEASE MANAGEMENT.
IT'S THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IN
OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM NOW.
WHILE WE'RE MANAGING ACUTE CARE
ALL RIGHT, CHRONIC DISEASE
MANAGEMENT STILL NEEDS A LOT OF
WORK.
WE NEED TO FOCUS ON PREVENTION
AND WELLNESS.
WE WANT TO HAVE A HEALTHY
POPULATION, SO WE REDUCE OUR
HOSPITALIZATIONS.
WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY PEOPLE WHO
ARE FRAIL THAT CAN'T BE INVOLVED
IN SOCIETY AND IN THEIR
WORKPLACES.
SO THERE'S A LOT MORE WORK THAT
NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THAT
RESPECT?

Steve says FRANCE GELINAS?

The caption changes to "France Gelinas. NDP Candidate, Nickel Belt."

France says I WOULD SAY A BIT WORRIED.
WE KNOW WE HAVE AN AGING
POPULATION, AND THAT COMES WITH
CHRONIC DISEASE.
BUT ALSO KNOW FOR THE FIRST TIME
EVER IN ONTARIO, OUR YOUNG
PEOPLE ARE NOT AS HEALTHY AS
WHEN YOU AND I WERE GROWING UP.
YOU LOOK AT THE RATE OF OBESITY,
YOU LOOK AT THE RATE OF MENTAL
ILLNESS, YOU LOOK AT THE RATE OF
CHRONIC DISEASE THAT STARTS IN
CHILDREN, AND OUR YOUTH ARE NOT
HEALTHY... ARE NOT AS HEALTHY AS
WE WERE, SO THAT WORRIES ME
LOTS.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS
SERIOUSLY.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HEALTH
PROMOTION, DISEASE PREVENTION,
HOW DO WE... THE SOCIAL
DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH.
HOW DO WE KEEP OUR POPULATION
HEALTHY?
AND IT STARTS WITH THE KIDS BUT
IT GOES THROUGHOUT.

Steve says MIKE SCHREINER?

The caption changes to "Mike Schreiner. Green Party Candidate, Guelph."

Mike says YES, STEVE.
I'M HAPPY WE'RE HAVING THIS
DISCUSSION TONIGHT, BECAUSE I
BELIEVE WE NEED TO TRANSFORM OUR
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM TO FOCUS MORE
ON PREVENTING ILLNESS AND
PROMOTING HEALTH INSTEAD OF JUST
TREATING SICKNESS.
ONE OF THE REASONS BRITISH
COLUMBIANS DOES SO MUCH BETTER
THAN ONTARIO IS, THEY SPEND
THREE TIMES MORE PER CAPITA ON
PREVENTING ILLNESS AND PROMOTING
HEALTH THAN WE DO IN ONTARIO.
WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LINK
BETWEEN THINGS LIKE POVERTY AND
HOUSING AND HOW THAT AFFECTS
PEOPLE'S HEALTH OUTCOMES.
WE SPEND THREE TIMES MORE MONEY
ON HEALTH CARE THAN WE DO ON
SOCIAL SERVICES, YET
INCREASINGLY STUDIES ARE SHOWING
THAT SOCIAL SERVICES AFFECT
PEOPLE'S HEALTH OUTCOMES AS MUCH
OR MORE THAN THE ACTUAL HEALTH
CARE SYSTEM ITSELF.
AND FINALLY, THE BUILT
ENVIRONMENT.
WE NEED A BUILT ENVIRONMENT THAT
MAKES IT SAFE AND EASY FOR
PEOPLE TO LIVE ACTIVE
LIFESTYLES.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP ON
THAT, DEB MATTHEWS.
WE SPEND THIS MUCH ON HEALTH AND
THIS MUCH ON HEALTH PROMOTION.
I'M NOT SURE WE'VE GOT TO DO
THAT.
BUT WE SURELY HAVE TO DO THIS,
DON'T WE?

Deb says THE BASIC
INCOME PILOT I THINK IS A REALLY
GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING
AND WE'RE STUDYING THIS...

Steve says JUST EXPLAIN WHAT
THAT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW?

Deb says THE BASIC INCOME PILOT IS A
PILOT IN SEVERAL COMMUNITIES
ACROSS THE PROVINCE, INCLUDING
HAMILTON, WHERE PEOPLE CAN
CHOOSE TO GO ON A BASIC INCOME
PILOT WHERE THEY GET
SIGNIFICANTLY MORE MONEY THAN
THEY WOULD IF THEY WERE ON
SOCIAL ASSISTANCE, AND WE'RE
TRACKING WHETHER OR NOT THEIR
HEALTH IMPROVES, WHETHER THEIR
RELIANCE ON THE HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM DECREASES, WHETHER
THEY'RE BETTER ABLE TO WORK OR
GO BACK TO SCHOOL.
SO THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT
PILOT THAT'S TAKING PLACE.
PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD ARE
WATCHING THE BASIC INCOME PILOT.

Steve says INCLUDING HER PARTY,
INCIDENTALLY.
I THINK THE CONSERVATIVES SAID
THEY WOULD KEEP IT IF THEY WON?

Deb says YES, THEY DID.
I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT.
I THINK WE'RE ACTUALLY GETTING
SERIOUS ABOUT TACKLING THE
SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH,
AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT
WE CONTINUE WITH THE WORK ON
HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION.
WE WANT TO ELIMINATE CHRONIC
HOMELESSNESS BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY
KNOW IT COSTS LESS IN OUR HEALTH
CARE SYSTEM, IN OUR JUSTICE
SYSTEM, TO PROVIDE PEOPLE WITH A
HOME AND THE SUPPORTS THEY NEED
TO STAY HOUSED THAN IT DOES TO
ACTUALLY RUN THE STATUS QUO,
RIGHT?
HOMELESSNESS IS ACTUALLY VERY
EXPENSIVE.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT'S
HAPPENING AND IT'S EXCITING TO SEE.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME
GOOD RESULTS.

Steve says WHAT DOES THE PC
PARTY HAVE UP ITS SLEEVE IN
TERMS OF MAKING A CONTRIBUTION
TO HEALTH PROMOTION, HAVE A
HEALTH SYSTEM THAT IS LESS ABOUT
SICKNESS TREATMENT AND MAKING
SURE YOU DON'T GET SICK IN THE
FIRST PLACE?

Christine says WE CERTAINLY HAVE SEVERAL OPTIONS.
ONE IS OUR DENTAL CARE PROGRAM
FOR SENIORS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT
LAST YEAR THERE WAS 61,000
VISITS TO EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS
JUST BECAUSE OF ORAL HEALTH
PROBLEMS.
SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
CAN PROVIDE THAT CARE, THOSE
SERVICES TO SENIORS, MANY OF
WHOM WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO SEE A
DENTIST SO THEY END UP IN THE
EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT, SO WE WANT
TO MAKE SURE WE CAN PREVENT
THOSE VISITATIONS TO THE
EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT...

Steve says LET ME JUMP IN
THERE.
DEB MATTHEWS WILL SAY WE'RE
COVERING UNDER 25s AND OVER
65s, AND THE NDP WOULD SAY
WE'RE COVERING EVERYBODY.
FEWER DRUGS, ADMITTEDLY, BUT
WE'RE COVERING EVERYBODY.
THE PC PARTY HAS ONLY DECIDED TO
COVER THE SENIOR VOTE.
WHY IS THAT?

Christine says WE SUPPORT THE PHARMACARE
PROGRAM, OHIP.
WE'D LIKE TO EXPAND THAT TO
SENIORS BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THERE'S MONEY TO DO THAT BECAUSE
WE KNOW THERE'S A HUGE FINANCIAL
HOLE IN ONTARIO.
WE CAN'T OVERPROMISE AND
UNDERDELIVER.
NOBODY WANTS THAT.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE PICK THE
PRIORITIES, THE THINGS WE'VE
HEARD FROM PEOPLE THE MOST AND
BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES
STRAIGHTAWAY.

Deb says THE BIG
PROBLEM WE HAVE, IF I CAN, IS
YOU HAVEN'T GOT A PLATFORM.
YOU HAVEN'T GOT ANY MONEY
ALLOCATED.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY IS
COMING FROM.
WE SURE DO KNOW THAT YOU'RE
GOING TO CUT DRASTICALLY,
BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS.

Christine says THAT IS
NOT TRUE.

Deb says UNTIL WE SEE
THE MONEY FOLLOWING THE
PROMISES, IT'S PRETTY HARD TO
BELIEVE THEM.

Christine says NO.
IF I MAY?
IS WE HAVE FIVE ESSENTIAL PLANKS
IN OUR PLATFORM RIGHT NOW, AND
ENDING HALLWAY MEDICINE IS ONE
OF THEM.
WE ARE VERY COMMITTED TO MAKING
SURE PEOPLE DON'T GET TREATED IN
HALLWAYS, IN STORAGE ROOMS AND
SO ON IN HOSPITALS.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE
GOING TO RECEIVE EXCELLENT
QUALITY HEALTH CARE.
WE HAVE COSTED IT.
WE HAVE TOLD PEOPLE ONLY WHAT
WE'RE ABLE TO DO RIGHT NOW.
AND WE HAVE SAID THAT WHEN WE
WIN GOVERNMENT, WE ARE GOING TO
HAVE AN ACCOUNTANT COME IN TO
UNDERSTAND WHERE THE BOTTOM IS.
BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW AS A
RESULT OF WHAT THE LIBERALS HAVE
DONE FOR 15 YEARS.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN
DELIVER ON WHAT WE PROMISE.
SO WE HAVE COSTED WHAT WE'VE
PROMISED SO FAR, AND WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE HOW BAD
THINGS ARE BEFORE WE CAN PROMISE
ANYTHING MORE.

Steve says LET ME JUMP IN FOR A
SECOND.
WE HAVE A CANDIDATE IN PICKERING
UXBRIDGE AT A NEWS CONFERENCE IN
DOWNTOWN TORONTO SAID THERE WILL
BE A FULLY COSTED PROGRAM BEFORE
THIS ELECTION IS OVER.
IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING?

Christine says ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says IN INTERESTS OF
EQUAL TIME HERE, IN TERMS OF
HEALTH PROMOTION, WHAT DOES THE
NDP LIKE WHAT IT'S GOT ON OFFER?

France says I WOULD
AGREE WITH PART OF WHAT DEBBIE
HAS SAID, THAT HOMELESSNESS IS
VERY IMPORTANT.
YOU LOOK... THE LIBERALS HAVE
BEEN THERE FOR 15 YEARS.
THERE'S BEEN VERY LITTLE DONE
FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
YOU'RE HOMELESS BECAUSE YOU
DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE.
YOU CAN'T AFFORD A PLACE TO
LIVE.
SO WE ARE COMMITTED TO 65,000
NEW UNITS.
WE ARE COMMITTED TO 30,000
SOCIAL HOUSING, THAT IS WHERE
YOU HAVE SUPPORT.
SO A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH MENTAL
ILLNESS LIVE ON THE STREET.
WHY?
BECAUSE THERE ISN'T SOCIAL
HOUSING AVAILABLE FOR THEM.
WE ARE COMMITTED TO THAT.
YOU LOOK AT KEEPING PEOPLE
HEALTHY.
YOU HAVE 2.2 MILLION ONTARIANS
RIGHT NOW WHO DON'T TAKE THEIR
MEDICATION AS PRESCRIBED BECAUSE
THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST OHIP PLUS
FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UNDER 25 AND
PEOPLE OVER 65.
I WANT IT UNIVERSAL.
WE'LL DO LIKE 132 OTHER
COUNTRIES THAT HAVE MEDICARE.
WE WILL BRING UNIVERSAL
PHARMACARE OUT OF A LIST OF
ESSENTIAL MEDICINES AND SAME
THING WITH DENTAL.
THERE ARE MORE THAN 4 MILLION
PEOPLE IN ONTARIO THAT DON'T GO
TO THE DENTIST BECAUSE THEY
CAN'T AFFORD IT.
IT HAS BECOME THEIR BADGE OF
SHAME WHERE, IF YOU ARE POOR,
YOU CANNOT SMILE BECAUSE YOU
HAVEN'T GONE TO THE DENTIST AND
YOU HAVE BAD TEETH.
HOW COULD THAT BE IN A PROVINCE
AS PROSPEROUS AS ONTARIO, THAT
WE LET THAT CONTINUE?
AND AN NDP GOVERNMENT WOULD MAKE
SURE THAT UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO
PHARMACARE AND UNIVERSAL ACCESS
TO DENTAL CARE, TO MATTER YOUR
AGE, NO MATTER IF YOU'RE WORKING
OR NOT, YOU'RE PART OF THE GIG
ECONOMY, YOU WILL HAVE ACCESS.

Steve says LET ME GET MIKE
SCHREINER IN FOR THE GREENS,
WHAT YOU'VE GOT UP YOUR SLEEVE
ON HEALTH PROMOTION?

Mike says ONE OF THE
THING THAT SEPARATES THE GREENS
FROM THE THREE STATUS QUO
PARTIES IS WE'RE NOT PUTTING A
BAND-AID.
I SUPPORT THE INVESTMENTS THAT
WERE CONTAINED IN THE BUDGET.
BUT THERE ARE THREE PRIMARY
DRIVERS WE HAVE TO ADDRESS.
ONE IS PRIMARY HEALTH CARE
REFORM.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE
MORE AND BETTER ACCESS TO
PRIMARY HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.
SO THAT MEANS MORE FUNDING FOR
COMMUNITY CARE CENTRES, MORE
NURSE PRACTITIONER-LIKE CLINICS,
MORE INTEGRATED FAMILY HEALTH
TEAMS.
ALMOST HALF THE PEOPLE,
47 PERCENT OF PEOPLE WHO GO TO
EMERGENCY SAY, THEY COULD HAVE
BEEN TREATED AT THE PRIMARY CARE
LEVEL AND RECEIVED BETTER
TREATMENT AT A LOWER COST IF
THEY COULD HAVE ACCESSED THAT
PRIMARY HEALTH CARE.
SO THAT IS IS CRITICALLY
IMPORTANT.
THE SECOND ONE IS WHY WE'RE
CALLING FOR AN HISTORIC
INVESTMENT IN MENTAL HEALTH
SERVICES, 4.1 BILLION DOLLARS OVER THE
NEXT FOUR YEARS, BECAUSE I'VE
TALKED TO SO MANY EMERGENCY ROOM
DOCTORS, PARTICULARLY IN MY HOME
RIDING OF GUELPH, WHERE DOCTORS
HAVE SAID I ALMOST KNOW THE
NAMES OF ALL THE MENTAL HEALTH
PATIENTS THAT ARE COMING IN,
BEING RECYCLED THROUGH THE
EMERGENCY ROOM.
THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE CARE
THEY NEED IN THE COMMUNITY.
WE HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MENTAL
HEALTH ULTIMATELY A PART OF OHIP
AND IT WOULD BE PUBLICLY FUNDED
AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE WHO
NEEDS IT.
THE FINAL ONE IS LONG-TERM CARE
BEDS AND ALTERNATIVE LEVELS OF
CARE.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF SENIORS WHO
ARE IN HOSPITAL WHO WOULD BE
BETTER CARED FOR IN THE
COMMUNITY IF THEY COULD ACCESS
THOSE SERVICES.
SO IF WE CAN ALLEVIATE THAT
PRESSURE ON EMERGENCY ROOMS,
THAT WOULD HELP FREE UP HOSPITAL
SPACE AND WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT
CONTRIBUTOR TO TRANSFORMING OUR
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Steve says LET ME PUT ONE IDEA
ON THE TABLE, AND DEB MATTHEWS,
I WANT TO START WITH YOU.
I PRESUME, WHEN YOU WERE IN
CABINET, DEPUTY PREMIER,
MINISTER OF HEALTH, WHATEVER, AT
SOME POINT YOUR GOVERNMENT HAD A
DEBATE ABOUT SOMETHING MANY
OTHER JURISDICTIONS HAVE LOOKED
AT AND THAT IS WHETHER TO TAX
SODA POP, FRUIT JUICES, THAT
KIND OF STUFF.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S
THE CASE THAT IF YOU PUT HIGH
ENOUGH TAXES ON SMOKING AND
BOOZE AND ALL THAT, YOU CAN
INHIBIT SOME OVERINDULGENCE.
DID YOU THINK ABOUT DOING THAT?

Deb says YEAH, WE DID.
WHEN I WAS MINISTER OF HEALTH,
WE HAD A CHILD OBESITY PANEL
THAT REALLY WRESTLED THROUGH
SOME OF THOSE ISSUES.
ONE OF THE OUTCOMES OF THAT WAS
CALORIE LABELLING.
SO IN RESTAURANTS NOW, YOU CAN
SEE HOW MANY CALORIES IN A
TIMBIT, RIGHT?

Steve says YOU ULTIMATELY
DIDN'T GO FOR THE TAX.

Deb says THE ADVICE OF THE PANEL WAS
NOT TO DO THE TAX BECAUSE IT WAS
SEEN AS A TAX ON THE POOR.
AND SO THE ADVICE WE GOT FROM
THE PANEL WAS NOT TO PROCEED
WITH A TAX.

Steve says I'M PRESUMING THE PC
PARTY HAS NO PLAN TO TAX FRUIT
JUICES AND SODA POP?

Christine says THAT'S RIGHT.
IT IS A TAX ON THE POOR,
ESPECIALLY IN SOME OF THE
NORTHERN COMMUNITIES, THE FLY-IN
INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.
PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD FRUIT JUICES
AND LESS SUGARY DRINKS, SO THEY
DRINK MORE SOFT DRINKS, WHICH IS
NOT IDEAL.
THEY'RE BARELY COPING WITH WHAT
THEY CAN PAY FOR NOW.

Steve says IS THAT SOMETHING
THE NDP WOULD DO?

France says I CAN TELL
YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BIG FIVE
IN HEALTH PROMOTION: STOP
SMOKING, HEALTHY EATING, HEALTHY
WEIGHT, LIMIT YOUR ALCOHOL USE,
AND EXERCISE, WE ARE LOOKING AT
ALL OF THAT, INCLUDING MENTAL
ILLNESS.
WE ARE LOOKING AT ALL OF THIS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLICIES THAT
WE HAVE PUT FORWARD, THEY HAVE
HEALTH IN ALL POLICIES LENS TO
THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF
THAT IS TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.
SO DOES TAX HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY?
TAX HAS A ROLE TO PLAY IN
ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION AND
CIGARETTE CONSUMPTION, AND AT
SOME POINT IN HEALTHY EATING, IT
WILL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY.
I COULD AM FROM NORTHERN ONTARIO.
I KNOW FULL WELL HOW MUCH IT
COSTS TO BRING 3 LITRES OR 4
LITRES OF MILK OUT THERE.
I BUY IT EVERY WEEK.
THE IDEA IS REALLY, MAKE HEALTHY
CHOICES... THE HEALTHY CHOICE
THE EASY CHOICE, AND THEN IT
BECOMES SO MUCH EASIER.
CALORIE LABELLING.
I BROUGHT THAT FORWARD SIX
DIFFERENT TIMES BEFORE, AND
FINALLY BROUGHT IT FORWARD.
HALLELUJAH, WE HAVE IT.
IT'S A LITTLE STEP.
IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT HARD TO
MAKE STEPS IN HEALTH PROMOTION.

Steve says I'M NOT HEARING YOU
SAY AN ABSOLUTE NO TO A TAX ON
SODA POP.

France says WE'RE NOT READY FOR THAT
BECAUSE THE HEALTHIER
ALTERNATIVES ARE NOT THERE.

Steve says MIKE SCHREINER, I
WONDER IF YOU COULD... THIS IS
ALWAYS A TOUGH ISSUE BECAUSE ON
THE ONE HAND GOVERNMENTS WANT TO
PROMOTE A HEALTHIER LIFESTYLE
AMONG THE POPULATION FOR A WHOLE
BUNCH OF OBVIOUS REASONS.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW,
CITIZENS DON'T NECESSARILY WANT
THEIR GOVERNMENT STICKING THEIR
NOSE IN THEIR BUSINESS, HOW MUCH
MILK I DRINK OR HOW MUCH FRUIT
JUICE I DRINK.
WHERE DO YOU FIND THE BALANCE ON THAT?

The caption changes to "Mike Schreiner, @MikeSchreiner."

Mike says I SEE IT AS
A FOUR-STEP PROCESS BEFORE WE
GET TO WHAT I WOULD CALL A JUNK
FOOD TAX.
IF WE FOLLOW THE FOUR-STEP
PROCESS, I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE
OF.
FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE TO TEACH
PEOPLE THAT HEALTHY EATING.
I DON'T LIKE THE NAME HOME
ECONOMICS, HEALTHY LIVING OR
SOMETHING, BUT IF WE COULD
REINTRODUCE THAT BACK INTO THE
CURRICULUM, SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE
DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE FOOD,
CALORIE, HOW TO EAT HEALTHY.
THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF OUR
CURRICULUM, FIRST OF ALL.
SECOND OF ALL IS INCOME.
INCOME INEQUALITY IS HUGE.
I WAS HAPPY THAT THE GOVERNMENT
BROUGHT FORWARD THE BASIC INCOME
PILOT.
BUT WE CAN'T USE THAT AS AN
EXCUSE NOT TO RAISE SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE RATES RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S WHY WE ARE CALLING FOR
FUNDING FOR ROLLING OUT A FULL
BASIC INCOME GUARANTEE, BECAUSE
POVERTY AND INCOME INEQUALITY
PLAYS A HUGE ROLE ON THIS ISSUE.
AND THEN THE FINAL POINT IS TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE MAKE HEALTHY
FOODS MORE AFFORDABLE FOR
PEOPLE.
I MEAN, THAT'S A HUGE ISSUE.
PART OF THAT FOR US IS, LET'S
SUPPORT LOCAL FARMERS AND
GROWING HEALTHY LOCAL FOOD.
LET'S UP THE ANTE ON THE LOCAL
FOOD ACT AND ACTUALLY REQUIRE
THAT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF
LOCAL HEALTHY FOOD BE AVAILABLE
IN ALL OF OUR PUBLIC
INSTITUTIONS SO PEOPLE CAN
BETTER ACCESS HEALTHY EATING.
THEN I THINK WE CAN LOOK AT
OTHER MECHANISMS LIKE TAXES TO
ENCOURAGE THAT BEHAVIOUR SHIFT,
BECAUSE IT HAS WORKED WITH
ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO, SO IT IS A
TOOL THAT'S IN OUR TOOL BOX.

The caption changes to "Comprehensive election coverage: tvo.org/OntarioElection."

Steve says I WANT TO JUST TAKE
THE NEXT COUPLE OF MINUTES AND,
SHELDON OSMOND, OUR DIRECTOR, IS
GOING TO BRING THIS GRAPHIC UP
BECAUSE ALL OF YOU HAVE... YOU
HAVE QUITE A LOT OF THINGS TO
SAY ABOUT HEALTH PROMOTION AND
HEALTH CARE AND SO ON.
THIS IS BY NO MEANS AN
EXHAUSTIVE LIST BUT IT IS A
HIGHLIGHT LIST.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Health care promises."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
THE LIBERALS PLEDGE TO SPEND,
THIS WAS IN THE BUDGET, AN EXTRA
822 MILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT YEAR
IN HOSPITALS TO IMPROVE WAIT
TIMES, ON TOP OF THE 19 BILLION DOLLARS
THEY ALREADY SPEND ON FUNDING
THE PROVINCE'S HOSPITALS.
AND INCLUDED IN THAT IS
187 MILLION DOLLARS FOR HOSPITAL BEDS,
INCLUDING NEW MEDICAL AND
SURGICAL BEDS, MENTAL HEALTH
BEDS, BEDS FOR LONG-TERM CARE
AND VENTILATED PATIENTS.
THAT'S THE HIGHLIGHT OF THE GRIT
PACKAGE.
THE PCs ARE TALKING ABOUT
1.9 BILLION DOLLARS OVER 10 YEARS FOR
MENTAL HEALTH, ADDICTIONS AND
HOUSING SUPPORTS, AND THEY PLAN
TO ADD 15,000 LONG-TERM CARE
BEDS OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS
AND 30,000 BEDS OVER 10 YEARS.
THE NEW DEMOCRAT PLEDGE IS TO
INCREASE HOSPITAL FUNDING BY
5.3 percent WHICH ACCORDING TO THE
PARTY WILL BE 916 MILLION DOLLARS MORE
DOLLARS FOR THIS YEAR ALONE.
WITHIN THE YEAR THEY ALSO INTEND
TO ADD 2,000 NEW HOSPITAL BEDS,
ESTIMATED COST ON THAT MORE THAN
300 MILLION DOLLARS.
LIKE THE TORIES, THEY WANT TO
ADD 15,000 LONG-TERM CARE BEDS
OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
THEY'RE AIMING FOR 40,000 NEW
BEDS WITHIN 20 YEARS.
AND THE GREEN PARTY, YOU'VE
HEARD MIKE SCHREINER TALK ABOUT
THAT ALREADY, THE FOCUS ON
MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, THE PLEDGE
TO INVEST 4.1 BILLION DOLLARS OVER FOUR
YEARS IN MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES
AS A STEP TO HAVING MENTAL
HEALTH CARE COVERAGE WITHIN
OHIP.
SO YOU ARE ALL... I MEAN, YOU'VE
ALL GOT SOMETHING TO SAY ON ALL
OF THIS.
AND I GUESS BEFORE WE GET INTO A
HEALTHY DEBATE ABOUT IT ALL, YOU
KNOW, DIFFERENT PRIORITIES FOR
DIFFERENT PARTIES, DIFFERENT
ACCENTS ON DIFFERENT THINGS.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE MIX OF WHAT
THE LIBERALS HAVE ON OFFER IS BEST?

The caption changes to "Deb Matthews. Former MPP, London North Centre."

Deb says WELL, I THINK
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE
HEALTH ECOSYSTEM AS OPPOSED TO
JUST HOSPITAL FUNDING.
HOSPITALS ARE SO IMPORTANT.
BUT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE
IN HOSPITAL WHO ACTUALLY WOULD
BE BETTER CARED FOR OUTSIDE OF
HOSPITAL.

Steve says SURE.

The caption changes to "Wait times and overcrowding."

Deb says SO BUILDING THAT CAPACITY
OUTSIDE OF HOSPITALS, WHETHER
IT'S HOME CARE OR SUPPORTING
PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN HOMES BY...
WELL, WE'VE GOT MONEY SET ASIDE
TO HELP PEOPLE WITH THE COST OF
CLEANING THE EAVESTROUGHS AND
SHOVELLING THE SNOW TO HELP
PEOPLE STAY IN THEIR HOUSE
LONGER.
WE HAVE INCREASED FUNDING FOR
HOUSE CALLS.
IT'S NOT REALLY AN INNOVATION
BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF GOING BACK
TO WHERE WE WERE.
KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF HOSPITAL
AND GETTING THEM THE HEALTH CARE
THEY NEED IN THEIR OWN HOME.
BUILDING... THINKING OUTSIDE THE
BOX IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF
SUPPORTS DO PEOPLE NEED AS THEY
AGE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE
ARE ENOUGH OLDER PEOPLE, IT'S
POSSIBLE TO PUT IN A NURSE OR A
PERSONAL SUPPORT WORKER TO
SUPPORT PEOPLE...

Steve says LET ME COME AT YOU
WITH ONE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION
HERE, WHICH IS, YOU'VE HEARD THE
CRITICISM BEFORE THAT THERE'S
ALMOST A BILLION DOLLARS IN THE
LAST BUDGET FOR HOSPITALS.
YOUR CRITICS WOULD ARGUE,
BECAUSE YOU STARVED HOSPITALS
TOO MUCH OVER THE PAST FIVE
YEARS UNDER KATHLEEN WYNNE'S
PREMIERSHIP AND THEREFORE YOU'RE
PLAYING CATCH-UP.
YES OR NO?

Deb says NO.
WE INCREASED HOSPITAL FUNDING
YEAR AFTER YEAR.
THERE'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT
HAPPENING IN THE PROVINCE AND
THAT IS THE DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT.
SO AS PEOPLE AGE... OUR HEALTH
CARE SYSTEM WAS BUILT WHEN
PEOPLE HAD SHORT-TERM EPISODIC
IN THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE THEIR
GALLBLADDER OUT AND OUT AGAIN.
PEOPLE NOW HAVE MUCH MORE
COMPLEX DISEASES.
THERE ARE MORE OF US WHO ARE
OLDER.
WE NEED TO RETUNE OUR HEALTH
CARE SYSTEM AND REALLY THINK
ABOUT DELIVERING THE RIGHT CARE
IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT
TIME BY THE RIGHT PROVIDER.
SO WE HAVE TO RE-THINK OUR
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
BUT WHEN THERE ARE PEOPLE IN
HOSPITAL WHO SHOULD NOT BE
THERE, THAT TELLS ME THAT WE'VE
GOT TO BUILD CAPACITY OUTSIDE
HOSPITALS.

Steve says CHRISTINE ELLIOTT,
LET ME GET YOU... I KNOW THE
BIGGEST PHRASE USED IT SEEMS TO
ME IN THIS ELECTION CAMPAIGN HAS
BEEN HALLWAY MEDICINE AND ALL OF
THE PARTIES ARE LOOKING TO
SOMEHOW END HALLWAY MEDICINE,
MAYBE IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
WHAT'S THE PC PARTY'S IDEA ON THAT?

The caption changes to "Christine Elliott. @celliottability."

Christine says ONE OF
THE BIGGEST WAYS TO ELIMINATE
HALLWAY MEDICINE IS TO MAKE SURE
THERE ARE BEDS AVAILABLE IN
HOSPITALS.
ABOUT 25 PERCENT OF ALL THE
PATIENTS IN ANY GIVEN HOSPITAL
AT ANY GIVEN TIME ARE ULTIMATE
LEVEL OF CARE PATIENTS, WHICH
MEANS THEY DON'T NEED TO BE IN
HOSPITAL.
USUALLY FRAIL ELDERLY SENIORS.
BUT THEY CAN'T GO HOME BECAUSE
THERE AREN'T ENOUGH HOME CARE
SUPPORTS FOR THEM OR THERE ISN'T
A PLACE IN A LONG-TERM CARE BED.
IF YOU'RE 85 YEARS OLD AND YOU
HAVE TO WAIT FIVE YEARS TO GET
INTO A LONG-TERM CARE BED,
THAT'S NOT GOOD.
SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE
EMPHASIS ON BUILDING 15,000
LONG-TERM CARE BEDS IN THE FIRST
FIVE YEARS AND 30,000 IN THE 10
YEARS THEREAFTER BECAUSE WE KNOW
THAT WE NEED TO PUT PEOPLE IN
THE APPROPRIATE PLACE.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE IN
HOSPITAL.
THEY WANT TO BE IN THEIR OWN
HOME, IF THEY CAN.
IF THEY CAN'T BE, THEY NEED A
LONG-TERM CARE BED THAT'S CLOSE
TO THEIR FAMILIES TOO.
MOVING PEOPLE FAR AWAY FROM
WHERE THEIR FAMILIES ARE IS NOT
RIGHT, FOR PEOPLE WHO WORKED
HARD ALL THEIR LIVES.
THAT'S ONE WAY WE CAN END
HALLWAY MEDICINE IS CREATE THAT
FLOW THROUGH THE HOSPITAL SO
PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY BE TREATED
IN A PROPER HOSPITAL ROOM.

Steve says I THINK THE NDP HAVE
BEEN ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT
HALLWAY MEDICINE ACTUALLY FOR
MANY... I WAS GOING TO SAY
YEARS, I'LL SAY MONTHS ANYWAY.
I CERTAINLY REMEMBER YOU AND
ANDREA HORWATH ASKING QUESTIONS
ABOUT THAT.
BUT WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY DO TO
BRING AN END TO IT?

The caption changes to "France Gélinas, @NickelBelt."

France says BASICALLY
WE STARTED FILING ACCESS FOR
INFORMATION TWO YEARS AGO
BECAUSE WE WERE GOING INTO
HOSPITALS AND SEEING THE
CAPACITY CHALLENGE WE HAD.
I THINK THE ONTARIO HOSPITAL
ASSOCIATION SAYS IT BEST, A
SYSTEM ON THE BRINK.
THE JEWEL OF OUR HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM IS ON THE BRINK.
WHY?
IS BECAUSE SIX YEARS AGO, THE
LIBERAL GOVERNMENT MADE THE
DECISION TO GIVE ZERO INCREASE.
THEY BRING IN NEW PROGRAMS BUT
THE BASE BUDGET WAS ZERO.
FOUR YEARS IN A ROW.
FIRST YEAR WAS PRETTY GOOD.
THEY FOUND SOME EFFICIENCIES.
YEARS TWO, THREE FOUR WERE A
DISASTER.
FIVE AND SIX, HERE AGAIN, NOT
ENOUGH FOR THE COST OF LIVING
INCREASE.
OUR HOSPITALS ARE ON THE BRINK.
THE LIBERALS ARE PUTTING A
ONE-TIME INCREASE AND THEY'RE
NOT.
WE WILL UNDO THE DAMAGE DONE BY
THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AND FUND
OUR HOSPITALS AT 5.3 PERCENT SO
THAT THEY CAN UNDO THE DAMAGE,
THEY CAN BUY THE NEW EQUIPMENT
THEY NEED, THEY CAN REOPEN
BEDS...

Steve says I HAVE TO JUMP IN
THERE.
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A HELL OF
A LOT OF MONEY.

France says YES.

Steve says AND EVERYBODY WANTS
TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN
AFFORD THAT PROMISE.
HOW CAN YOU?

France says WELL, WE WILL, AS OPPOSED TO
THE OTHER TWO, WE WILL ASK
PEOPLE TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.
WE WILL BRING IN AN EXTRA TAX ON
THE WEALTHIEST, ON PEOPLE WHO
MAKE OVER 220,000 A YEAR, ON
PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAXABLE INCOME
OF OVER 300,000 A YEAR, WE WILL
ASK THEM TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.
WE WILL ASK THEM TO PAY A BIT MORE.

Steve says THAT TURNS INTO THE
ANSWER FOR ALMOST EVERY QUESTION
YOU ASK THE NDP THESE DAYS.
WE'RE GOING TO RAISE TAXES ON
THOSE MAKING 220 AND 300 AND
CORPORATIONS, THEY'RE ALL GOING
TO PAY MORE.

France says RIGHT.
PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS, NOT
SMALL BUSINESSES.

Steve says INDEED.
NO, YOU'RE LEAVING SMALL
BUSINESS ALONE.
ONE DOES WONDER WHETHER OR NOT
ALL OF THAT MONEY GETS SPENT
TWICE AND THREE TIMES OVER GIVEN
THE NUMBER OF COMMITMENTS THE
NDP HAS MADE ON SPENDING IN THIS
CAMPAIGN.
WHAT DO YOU SAY?

France says WELL, OUR PLATFORM HAS BEEN
COSTED.
SO THE AUDITOR GENERAL... THE
FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICER
WHO USED TO WORK AT THE FEDERAL
LEVEL HAS REVIEWED OUR PLATFORM,
HAS SEEN THE NEW MONEY WE BRING
IN, THE MONEY THAT COMES OUT,
AND SAID THAT OUR PLATFORM IS
COSTED, WHICH IS WAY BETTER THAN
THE NONEXISTENT PLATFORM...

Steve says HE SAID IT WAS
REASONABLE UNTIL THE
700 MILLION DOLLAR MISTAKE CAME OUT.

France says YEAH.
THAT WAS A CONTINGENCY FUND THAT
WAS PUT ELSEWHERE.
THE CONTINGENCY, WE HAVE NOT
USED THE CONTINGENCY IN ANY OF
OUR PLATFORM, ANY OF THE
COSTING.
THE CONTINGENCY WAS THERE
BECAUSE WE WERE TOLD IT HAD TO
BE THERE.
A MISTAKE WAS DONE.
NO ARGUMENTS THERE.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE
700,000 THAT WAS PUT IN A
CONTINGENCY FUND WAS NEVER USED.
WE HAD NO INTENTION OF USING IT.
IT IS THERE BECAUSE IT HAD TO BE
THERE...

Steve says MIKE SCHREINER...
I'M GOING TO GET TO MIKE
SCHREINER BUT YOU HAVE TO
RESPOND TO SOME OF THE
CRITICISMS FIRST.

Deb says 700 MILLION DOLLARS... 700,000, I THINK.
ANYWAY, IT WAS AN ADDITION
RATHER THAN A SUBTRACTION,
1.4 BILLION DOLLARS YEAR OVER YEAR OVER
YEAR.
I HAVEN'T SEEN A REVISED COSTING
FROM YOU.

Steve says THEY DID SAY THE
DEFICIT WOULD HAVE TO GO UP BY
A BILLION FOUR TO ACCOMMODATE
THE NEW REALITY.

The caption changes to "Deb Matthews, @Deb_Matthews."

Deb says SO IT SEEMS TO ME... IT JUST
RAISES A COMPETENCY QUESTION, I
THINK.
BUT IT WAS A MISTAKE.
THERE'S ALSO THE OTHER BIG
MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE IN THE NDP
PLATFORM WHEN THEY DIDN'T
INCLUDE ANY OF THE ALLOCATIONS,
INCLUDING... THAT WERE MADE IN
THE CALENDAR YEAR 2017.
SO THINGS LIKE THE OPIOID
STRATEGY, THINGS LIKE THE
CANNABIS STRATEGY TO SUPPORT
MUNICIPALITIES WHEN CANNABIS
BECOMES LEGALIZED, A NUMBER OF
ITEMS OF IN-YEAR SPENDING WERE
JUST WIPED RIGHT OUT, AND ANDREA
HORWATH HAS SAID, YES, WE DID
THAT ON PURPOSE.
I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS ON
PURPOSE THAT YOU REDUCE SERVICES
FOR PEOPLE WITH AUTISM OR PEOPLE
WITH OPIOID ADDICTIONS.
I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
QUESTIONS AND NO ANSWERS.

Steve says LET'S GO TO THE NDP.

France says I CAN TELL
YOU OUR PLATFORM HAS BEEN COSTED
OUT, THAT WE ARE KEEPING THE
PROGRAMS THAT WERE THERE, BUT A
WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW PROGRAMS THAT
GOT ANNOUNCED IN THIS BUDGET, WE
WON'T... WE WILL NOT CONTINUE.
WE'RE BRINGING PHARMACARE FOR
EVERYONE.
WE WILL NOT GIVE KIDS 50 BUCKS
TO GO TO THE DENTIST.
WE WILL HAVE HEALTH CARE FOR
EVERYONE.
WHAT THEY HAVE PUT FORWARD AND
COSTED, WE ARE NOT GOING AHEAD
WITH THIS.
A DENTAL PLAN WHERE A FAMILY
GETS 400 BUCKS MEANS THAT YOU
STILL WON'T BE ABLE TO GO TO THE
DENTIST BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE
THE MONEY UP FRONT AND YOU WILL
CONTINUE TO HAVE ALL OF THE
PROBLEMS.
WE ARE NOT GOING AHEAD WITH THE
EXPENSES THEY HAVE PUT FORWARD
BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR OWN PLAN.
OUR OWN PLAN THAT IS THERE FOR
EVERYBODY TO SEE.

Steve says MIKE SCHREINER HAS
WAITED PATIENTLY.

Mike says I HAVE.

Steve says DO YOU WANT TO COME
IN ON WHY YOU HAVE MADE THE
DECISIONS YOU'VE MADE ON HEALTH
POLICY?

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Mike says I HAVE TO
TELL A LITTLE STORY HERE AND I
THINK ANDRE PICARD GETS CREDIT
FOR SOME OF IT.

Steve says THE GLOBE AND MAIL
COLUMNIST.

Mike says YES.
WE'RE ALL SITTING BY A RIVER AND
YOU SEE SOME CHILDREN FLOATING
DOWN THE RIVER WHO NEED HELP.
AND THESE FOLKS ARE JUMPING IN
TO SAVE THOSE CHILDREN, AND IT'S
A GOOD THING THEY'RE DOING THAT.
BUT SOMEBODY, AND THAT'S THE
GREEN PARTY, IS GOING TO HAVE TO
WALK OUT TO THAT RIVER AND SEE
WHY THE KIDS ARE FALLING INTO
THE RIVER IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THAT'S WHAT OUR PLAN DOES.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE EMPHASIZING
INVESTING IN MENTAL HEALTH
SERVICES AT AN HISTORIC LEVEL.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE LOOKING AT
ADDRESSING POVERTY AND THE
SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE INVESTING MORE
IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND MAKE
SURE PEOPLE HAVE AN AFFORDABLE
PLACE TO CALL HOME.
WE'RE THE FIRST PARTY WHO HAS
BROUGHT FORWARD A PROPOSAL FOR
DEDICATED FUNDING FOR
INFRASTRUCTURE, FOR SAFE WALKING
AND STREETS THAT IS PART OF THE
BUDGET, WE'RE PROPOSING
5 PERCENT, SO WE CAN MAKE OUR
BUILT ENVIRONMENT SAFER FOR
PEOPLE TO LIVE HEALTHY, ACTIVE
LIFESTYLES.
THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO CREATE
THE LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS THAT ARE
GOING TO LEAD TO SUSTAINABILITY
IN OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Steve says I DO HAVE TO DO ONE
QUICK FOLLOW-UP WITH DEB
MATTHEWS HERE AND I DON'T MEAN
TO SOUND LIKE A...

Deb says JUST WHATEVER.

Steve says SMART ASS IS WHAT I
WAS GOING TO SAY BUT YOU CAN'T
SAY THAT ON TV.
IS IT A LITTLE PROBLEMATIC FOR
YOU TO BE SAYING TO THE NDP,
YOUR NUMBERS ARE WAY OFF WHEN
THE AUDITOR GENERAL THINKS YOUR
NUMBERS ARE FICTION TO BEGIN
WITH?

Deb says THERE IS A
DISPUTE, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

Steve says THERE IS A DISPUTE.

Deb says BUT I HAVE TO SAY ALL THE
OTHER PARTIES HAVE ACCEPTED OUR
ACCOUNTING RULE.

Steve says THAT IS TRUE TOO.

Deb says YES, THAT IS TRUE TOO.
SO TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD...
EXCEPT I HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY BECAUSE --
CHRISTINE...

Steve says I LIKE THE WAY YOU
PIVOTED THERE.
THAT WAS VERY GOOD.

Deb says I JUST HAVE TO SAY.
THERE ARE I THINK TEN BILLION DOLLARS
AND COUNTING IN CUTS THAT YOU
HAVE TO MAKE, AND THERE ARE...
WE ARE JUST... HOW DO YOU...

Steve says WHERE DO YOU GET
TEN BILLION DOLLARS?
I HEARD SIX.
I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT TEN.

Deb says THERE HAVE BEEN PROMISES
ADDED DURING THE CAMPAIGN.
WE'RE COUNTING 10 BILLION DOLLARS IN
CUTS.
AND YOU CAN'T CUT 10 BILLION DOLLARS
WITHOUT DRASTICALLY CUTTING INTO
THE HEALTH CARE BUDGET.
AND THAT IS A BIG CREDIBILITY
GAP.
I MEAN, HOW CAN YOU TALK ABOUT
INVESTING MORE WHEN IT LOOKS...
AND DOUG FORD HAS SAID WE NEED
TO CUT ACROSS THE BOARD.
HE'S ADMITTED TO THAT.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE...

Steve says DO YOU HAVE AN
ANSWER?

Deb says I HAVE TO SAY IF YOU WERE THE
LEADER, I BET THEY WOULDN'T BE
TALKING THAT WAY.

Steve says I WANT TO HEAR THE
ANSWER TO THAT.

[LAUGHTER]

Christine says WHAT I
WOULD SAY IS, WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT EFFICIENCIES AND WE KNOW
THAT IN HEALTH CARE, WE ARE
SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY...
61 BILLION DOLLARS... BUT WE'RE NOT
GETTING THE BEST VALUE FOR OUR
HEALTH DOLLARS.
SO THE COMMONWEALTH FUND HAS
SAID THAT, THE C.D. HOWE
INSTITUTE HAS JUST SAID THAT.
WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF MONEY HAS
BEEN WASTED.
WE'RE SPENDING 8 BILLION DOLLARS ON
ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS AND
THEY STILL DON'T CONNECT WITH
EACH OTHER.
THERE'S LOTS OF OTHER BILLIONS
OF DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN WASTED
ON CANCELLED GAS PLANTS, ON
SMART METERS AND SO ON.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO WASTE MONEY
AND WE'RE GOING TO SPEND
TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS WISELY.

Deb says YOU CAN'T
HAVE 10 BILLION DOLLARS WITHOUT DOING
MORE DAMAGE TO THE HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM... YOU CAN'T CUT.
I FEEL A BIT UNCOMFORTABLE
ASKING YOU TO DEFEND IS IT
BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WOULDN'T WANT
TO DO THAT.
BUT THAT IS YOUR PARTY'S
POSITION, TO CUT 10 BILLION DOLLARS.
THAT'S HALF THE BUDGET.
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DEEP,
DEEP, DEEP CUTS TO HEALTH CARE.
AND UNTIL IT CAN BE EXPLAINED,
THEN WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THE
WORST.

Christine says NO, WE
ARE NOT.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FINDING
THOSE EFFICIENCIES.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING
MONEY INTO THE SYSTEMS THAT
REALLY NEED HELP.
MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS IS
AN AREA WHERE WE HAVE COMMITTED
1.9 BILLION DOLLARS TO MATCH THE
1.9 BILLION DOLLARS THAT'S BEEN
COMMITTED BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
WE KNOW THAT REACHES ACROSS ALL
MINISTRIES, NOT JUST IN HEALTH,
IT AFFECTS JUSTICE, IT AFFECTS
EDUCATION, IT AFFECTS MANY OTHER
MINISTRIES.
WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO SPEND
THAT MONEY WISELY.
WE KNOW THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE NEED
HELP.
WE HAVE 12,000 CHILDREN AND
YOUTH NEEDING MENTAL HEALTH
SERVICES THAT AREN'T RECEIVING
THEM.
OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT
EVERYBODY WHO NEEDS HELP GETS
THAT HELP AND WE NEED TO FIND...
WE KNOW WE ARE NOT SPENDING OUR
HEALTH CARE DOLLARS WELL.

Deb says THE
1.9 BILLION DOLLARS IS OVER 10 YEARS.

Mike says EXACTLY.

Deb says THAT IS A
BILLION DOLLARS LESS.
WE'RE PROMISING 2.1 BILLION DOLLARS
OVER FOUR YEARS.
SO YOUR MENTAL HEALTH PLATFORM
IS FAR, FAR LESS THAN ANYBODY
ELSE'S PROMISE.

Mike says IT'S A DROP
IN A BUCKET ON A YEAR BY YEAR
BASIS, 1.9 OVER TEN YEARS?

Christine says I THINK
WE NEED TO SET UP A PROPER
MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS
SYSTEM IN ONTARIO.
WE HAVE MONEY SPENT HERE, HERE,
AND HERE, IT'S NOT CONNECTED,
IT'S NOT RESPONDING TO THE NEEDS
OF CHILDREN AND YOUTH.
WE HAVE A COMMITTEE WHERE ALL
THREE PARTIES AGREED ON A NUMBER
OF STEPS, AND I THINK ONLY ONE
OF THEM HAS ACTUALLY BEEN
IMPLEMENTED BY THE LIBERALS,
WHICH WAS ON THE OPIOIDS.
THERE ARE MANY OTHER STEPS THAT
COULD BE TAKEN TO COORDINATE THE
SYSTEM MUCH BETTER AND TO FILL
IN THOSE GAPS AND MAKE SURE THAT
THOSE CHILDREN, YOUTH, AND
ADULTS GET THE SERVICES THAT
THEY NEED AND IT'S ALREADY BEEN
AGREED UPON BY ALL THE PARTIES.

Deb says I AGREE WITH YOU.
BUT WE'RE THE ONLY ONE PUTTING
MONEY TOWARDS THE OPIOID
STRATEGY, 220 MILLION DOLLARS ON THE
OPIOID STRATEGY.
I'M NOT SEEING IT ANYWHERE ELSE.

Steve says I'M JUMPING IN HERE.
WE HAVE TWO MINUTES TO GO.
SOME TIME HERE, SOME TIME HERE.

France says I'VE SEEN
WHAT EFFICIENCIES LOOKED LIKE IN
OUR HOSPITAL.
THEY WENT THROUGH FOUR YEARS TO
FIND EFFICIENCIES.
WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?
LIKE THE PERSON WHO SPENT 13
YEARS IN A BATHROOM BECAUSE THAT
WAS THE ONLY ROOM AVAILABLE.
THAT ROOM IS BEING USED EVERY
SINGLE DAY.
IT LOOKS LIKE 50 PERCENT OF OUR
HOSPITALS THAT ARE OVER
100 PERCENT CAPACITY.
THE SAFE LEVEL IS 85 PERCENT.
AND WE HAVE SOME AS HIGH AS
140 PERCENT CAPACITY.
THIS IS WHAT EFFICIENCIES LOOK
LIKE.
I DON'T WANT ANY MORE OF THIS.
I WANT A STRONG AND ROBUST
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, AND THAT
MEANS INVESTMENT.
NOT FINDING EFFICIENCIES.
NOT ROB FORD WHO SAYS I WILL
LEAVE NO STONE UNTURNED TO FIND
PRIVATIZATION.
I'VE SEEN WHAT PRIVATIZATION
LOOKS LIKE.
IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU'RE RICH YOU
GET CARE AND THE REST OF US
DON'T.

Steve says LAST 30 SECONDS TO
THE LEADER OF THE GREEN PARTY.

Mike says I THINK
PEOPLE WANT HONESTY.
TO SIT HERE AND RUN AROUND FOR
THE LAST FEW WEEKS AND SAY
EFFICIENCIES, EFFICIENCIES,
EFFICIENCIES WITHOUT OFFERING
ANY DETAILS.
I MEAN, THE ONE THING I'M PROUD
OF WE TALKED ABOUT DETAILED WAYS
WE COULD SAVE MONEY.
WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT DETAILS
OF HOW WE COULD RAISE ADDITIONAL
REVENUE. I THINK VOTERS WANT
THAT HONESTY FROM THEIR
POLITICIANS. THEY WANT
STRAIGHTFORWARD ANSWERS TO
THE CHALLENGES WE FACE.
NOT VAGUE SLOGANS.
BECAUSE VAGUE SLOGANS HAVE REAL
IMPACT ON PEOPLE'S LIVES WHEN
THE CUTS COME HOME TO ROOST.

The caption changes to "Producer: Meredith Martin, @MeredithMartin."

Steve says AND THAT IS THE LAST
WORD ON OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
I WANT TO THANK ALL FOUR
CANDIDATES... YOU'RE NOT A
CANDIDATE ANYMORE.
I WANT TO THANK THE THREE
CANDIDATES AND FORMER DEPUTY
PREMIER OF ONTARIO FOR COMING
INTO OUR STUDIO TONIGHT AND
HAVING THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT
HEALTH CARE. THANK YOU SO MUCH,
EVERYBODY.

The guests say THANK YOU.

Watch: Ontario's Medical Future