Transcript: A Powerful Presence in the Senate | May 21, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and spotted gray tie.

A caption on screen reads "A powerful presence in the Senate. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says BILL DAVIS WAS THE PREMIER OF
ONTARIO, MARGARET THATCHER LED
BRITAIN AND RONALD REGAN WAS
SITTING IN THE US WHITE HOUSE
WHEN THEN PRIME MINSTER PIERRE
ELLIOT TRUDEAU APPOINTED ANNE
COOLS TO THE CANADIAN SENATE,
MAKING HER THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN
SENATOR IN NORTH AMERICAN
HISTORY.
34 YEARS LATER, SHE'S CAUCUSED
WITH THE LIBERALS, THE
CONSERVATIVES, AND TODAY SITS AS
AN INDEPENDENT.
SHE RETIRES THIS SUMMER AND
WE'RE PLEASED TO WELCOME HER
BACK TO OUR STUDIO FOR A LOOK AT
NEARLY THREE AND A HALF DECADES
IN THE RED CHAMBER.
WELCOME, SENATOR ANNE COOLS.

Anne is in her sixties, with short white hair. She's wearing a black cardigan over a matching blouse, a pearl necklace, and silver earrings.

Steve continues GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK HERE.

Anne says IT'S WONDERFUL TO BE WITH YOU.

Steve says WE SHOULD SAY YOU'RE RETIRING
BECAUSE YOU'RE TURNING 75 AND
THAT'S THE MANDATORY RETIREMENT
AGE.

Anne says THAT IS THE MANDATORY AGE.

Steve says WELL, I WANT TO TAKE YOU BACK
TO THE VERY BEGINNING, BECAUSE
YOU GREW UP IN BARBADOS, AND I
WANT TO KNOW WHO YOUR SORT OF
POLITICAL HEROES WERE AT THAT
TIME THAT MIGHT HAVE GOT YOU
INTERESTED IN POLITICS.

The caption changes to "Anne Cools. Independent Senator."
Then, it changes again to "Barbados beginnings."

Anne says WELL, THEY WERE MORE THAN
POLITICAL HEROES; THEY WERE MY
RELATIVES.
SO, I GREW UP IN BARBADOS.
I LEFT WHEN I WAS 13 YEARS OLD.
AND I COME FROM A FAMILY THAT
WAS VERY ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN
THE POLITICS OF BARBADOS.

Steve says LIKE WHO?

Anne says LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, MY UNCLE,
HIS NAME WAS FREDDIE MILLER,
FREDERICK EDWARD MILLER, AND HE
ACTUALLY WAS A... THEY CALL THEM
MCPS... MEMBERS OF COLONIAL
PARLIAMENT.
AND HE WAS ACTUALLY THE FIRST
MINISTER OF HEALTH EVER IN
BARBADOS, WHEN THEY FINALLY GOT
TO A STAGE WHERE GOVERNANCE
REACHED A STAGE WHERE THEY WOULD
HAVE CABINET GOVERNMENT.
AND THEN, I HAD ANOTHER ONE, HIS
BROTHER... AND THEY'RE BOTH MY
MOTHER'S BROTHERS... NAMED THOMAS
WASHINGTON MILLER.
LOVELY NAMES.
AND HE WAS IN POLITICS AS WELL.

Steve says DO YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT THAT
THEY SORT OF PLANTED A SEED IN
YOUR HEAD ABOUT GOING INTO
POLITICS SOME DAY?

Anne says I HAVE A SUSPICION THAT IS
WHAT HAPPENED, BUT I DO NOT
THINK I WAS THAT MUCH... THAT
MUCH COGNIZANT OF IT.
BUT THEN, WE HAVE THE NEXT
GENERATION.
SO, MY UNCLE FREDDY'S DAUGHTER,
WHO'S MY FIRST COUSIN, BILLIE,
SHE FOLLOWED HIS FOOTSTEPS AND
WENT INTO POLITICS AND RETIRED
SOME YEARS AGO.
AND WHEN SHE THEN RETIRED A FEW
YEARS AGO, SHE'D BEEN FOREIGN
MINISTER, MINISTER FOR FOREIGN
AFFAIRS FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

Steve says IN BARBADOS?

Anne says IN BARBADOS.
AND THEN, BECAUSE I ENCOUNTERED
THIS AND THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER
COUSIN, ANOTHER SIBLING'S SON
WHO IS ALSO AN MP FOR A PERIOD
OF TIME.
AND THEN, ANOTHER ONE IN ANOTHER
GENERATION.
SO, WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF
GENERATIONS.

Steve says THIS IS THE FAMILY BUSINESS
IN A WAY.

Anne says IT WOULD APPEAR.
AND THE INTERESTING THING IS
THAT I LEARNED SOME YEARS BACK
THAT MY GRANDFATHER HAD BEEN A
MEMBER OF THE VESTRY, WHICH WAS
THE SORT OF PUBLIC SERVICE, BIT
OF GOVERNANCE OUT OF THE
CHURCHES.
SO, HE WAS A VESTRYMAN.
SO, IT RUNS IN THE FAMILY, I
THINK.

Steve says INDEED IT DOES.

Anne says BUT IT'S STOPPED NOW BECAUSE
I HAVE NO CHILDREN.

Steve says RIGHT, AND YOU'RE ABOUT TO
RETIRE.

Anne says AND I'M COMING UP TO THE...

Steve says WE WANT TO TAKE A GOOD LONG
LOOK AT YOUR LIFE.

Anne says NOT TO THE STARTING GATE,
TO THE ENDING GATE.

Steve says WELL, THE END OF THIS, BUT
PROBABLY THE BEGINNING OF
SOMETHING ELSE, IF I KNOW YOU.

Anne says COULD BE.

Steve says YOU CAME TO CANADA, AS YOU
SAID, WHEN YOU WERE 13.
YOU WENT TO MONTREAL ORIGINALLY.
AND YOU REALLY... IF I CAN PUT IT
THIS WAY... YOU BECAME QUITE
FAMOUS ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO, WHEN
YOU WERE PART OF A SIT-IN, A
STUDENT OCCUPATION AT A COMPUTER
CENTRE AT WHAT WAS THEN CALLED
SIR GEORGE WILLIAMS UNIVERSITY,
NOW CONCORDIA.

The caption changes to "An activist past."

Anne says TODAY CONCORDIA.

In a black and white picture, rolls of toilet paper hang from the façade of a university building.

Steve says INDEED.
THERE WERE ALLEGATIONS OF
RACISM AT THE TIME.
YOU GUYS, YOU STUDENTS, WANTED
TO MAKE YOUR POINTS KNOWN.
YOU DID A SIT-IN.
SOMEONE SET FIRE TO THE
BUILDING, CHAOS ENSUED, THE
COMPUTER CENTRE GOT TRASHED, AND
YOU ENDED UP FOUR MONTHS IN
JAIL.
AND I WANT TO KNOW, WITH THE
BENEFIT OF A HALF A CENTURY,
NEARLY, OF HINDSIGHT, WHAT WAS
THE BIG LESSON IN ALL OF THAT
FOR YOU?

Anne says THE BIG LESSON FOR ME WAS
THAT I WAS NAIVE.

Steve says NAIVE ABOUT WHAT THOUGH?

Anne says WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, I THOUGHT
THERE WAS A PRINCIPLE INVOLVED
FOR ME.
IF I WAS PREPARED TO PLEAD
GUILTY, EVERYTHING WOULD HAVE
BEEN OVER.

Steve says BUT YOU WOULDN'T.

Anne says RIGHT, BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT
WAS THE PRINCIPLED THING TO DO.
AND NOW, I LOOK BACK AND THAT IS
A YOUTHFUL LOOK, A YOUTHFUL
EXPRESSION OF PRINCIPLE.

Steve says ARE YOU SAYING THAT IF YOU
HAD TO DO IT AGAIN, THAT YOU
MAYBE SHOULD HAVE PLEADED GUILTY
AND AVOIDED THE JAIL TIME?

Anne says YEAH, IT WAS FOUR MONTHS.
YES, PROBABLY.
BUT I'M JUST SAYING TO YOU... I'M
NOT SAYING WHAT I WOULD DO
BECAUSE IT'LL NEVER BE THOSE
CIRCUMSTANCES AGAIN.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU IS
THAT THOSE EVENTS DISRUPTED MY
LIFE AND EVERYBODY'S LIFE, EVERY
SINGLE PERSON'S LIFE, AND IT
TOOK ME A LOT OF YEARS TO
UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WE WERE ALL
TOO YOUNG TO ACCEPT THAT THESE
POWERFUL OLDER PEOPLE WHO WERE
PROFESSORS AND HEADS OF
DEPARTMENT WERE UNWILLING TO
DEAL WITH A PRETTY
STRAIGHTFORWARD SITUATION.
AT THAT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO
GRASP AND UNDERSTAND.
THIS IS JUST HUMAN NATURE.

Steve says IN THE MID-1970S, HAVING
WORKED AS A SOCIAL WORKER, YOU
FOUNDED ONE OF CANADA'S FIRST
WOMEN'S SHELTERS.
AND I WONDER, BEFORE THAT
SHELTER WAS IN PLACE, IF A WOMAN
WAS THE VICTIM OF DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE BEFORE, WHAT DID SHE DO
AT THAT TIME?

Anne says WELL, THEY CALL THOSE THINGS,
THE POLICE CALL THEM
"DOMESTICS."
BUT THIS IS SOME MORE THAT I
FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT.
AND YOU COULD SAY I WAS THE
FRONTRUNNER IN THE FIELD.
AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, SOME OF
THIS BEGAN WITH A WOMAN IN
ENGLAND THAT I CALL MY SOUL
SISTER, WHO'S NAME IS ERIN
PIZZEY AND SHE'S THE PERSON IN
EUROPE, IN ENGLAND WHO STARTED
THE WHOLE MOVEMENT TOWARDS
DEALING WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
AS A PUBLIC POLICY QUESTION.

Steve says WHAT DID WOMEN DO, THOUGH,
BEFORE YOU DID THAT WORK?

Anne says I GUESS THEY JUST WENT TO
THEIR NEIGHBOURS, FRIENDLY
NEIGHBOURS, OR WHATEVER THEY
COULD DO.

Steve says SO, THIS WAS A SIGNIFICANT
STEP FORWARD THEN.

The caption changes to "Give her shelter."

Anne says A HUGE STEP FORWARD.
AND MY AGENCY WAS ESPECIALLY
VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL AND WE
ALWAYS... WE ALWAYS DID VERY
WELL.

Steve says YOU CAUGHT THE EYE OF THE
LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA A LITTLE
BIT AFTER THIS.
YOU RAN FOR THE NOMINATION IN
1978 TO BE THE LIBERAL CANDIDATE
IN ROSEDALE.

Anne says THAT WAS THE BIG ONE.

Steve says GREAT DOCUMENTARY MADE ABOUT
THAT, EH?

The caption changes to "Bitten by the political bug."

Anne says OH, YEAH,
THE RIGHT
CANDIDATE,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Steve says I THINK IT WAS CALLED
THE
RIGHT CHOICE FOR ROSEDALE.

Anne says YEAH,
THE RIGHT CANDIDATE,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Steve says YEAH, THAT WAS A GREAT
DOCUMENTARY.

Anne says YEAH, THAT WAS THE FILM
BOARD, NATIONAL FILM BOARD
AGAIN.

Steve says ANYWAY, YOU LOST THAT
NOMINATION TO JOHN EVANS, WHO
ENDED UP LOSING THE BY-ELECTION
TO DAVID CROMBIE, THE FORMER
MAYOR.
YOU THEN WON TWO NOMINATIONS IN
A ROW AND RAN IN THE '79 AND
'80 ELECTIONS AND LOST THOSE
TOO.
SO, IT WAS THREE LOSSES IN A
ROW.
HOW MUCH DID THAT HURT AT THE
TIME?

In a black and white picture, a young Anne smiles as she pins a sign with her name and face on a front yard.

Anne says A LITTLE.

Steve says NOT THAT MUCH, REALLY?

Anne says WELL, NOT SO MUCH AS TO
DISCOURAGE ONE.
BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, I
ALWAYS HAD A SUPPORTER IN PIERRE
ELLIOT TRUDEAU.

Steve says WE HAVE A SHOT OF THE TWO OF
YOU TOGETHER, ACTUALLY.

Anne says OH, THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.
THERE'S SOME BEAUTIFUL...

Steve says LET'S BRING THIS PICTURE UP
RIGHT NOW BECAUSE...

Anne says THERE'S SOME BEAUTIFUL
PHOTOGRAPHS.

Steve says EVEN THOUGH YOU SUSTAINED
THOSE THREE LOSSES IN A ROW,
THERE IS THE CURRENT PRIME
MINISTER'S FATHER WHO CALLED YOU
ONE DAY AND SAID WHAT?

A picture shows Anne and Pierre Trudeau walking outdoors, surrounded by a crowd.

Anne says "I WANT TO BRING YOU TO THE
SENATE."

Steve says AND WHAT DID YOU ANSWER WHEN
HE SAID THAT?

Anne says I JUST ABOUT DIED.
BUT I HAD HEARD FROM ANOTHER
PERSON A FEW DAYS BEFORE THAT HE
HAD BEEN RAISING MY NAME FOR THE
PAST SEVERAL WEEKS IN CABINET.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK HE LIKED
ABOUT YOU?

A colour picture shows Anne in her forties, shaking hands with a balding man in his sixties.

Anne says I CAN TELL WHAT HE TOLD ME.
HE TOLD ME THAT I HAD MORAL
COURAGE, THAT MORAL COURAGE IS A
VERY RARE THING AND POLITICS
NEEDED IT AND HE WANTED ME TO
STAY INVOLVED IN POLITICS
BECAUSE OF THAT.

Steve says BUT YOU ALWAYS... I WON'T SAY
ALWAYS, BUT YOU HAD CLEARLY
WANTED TO BE ELECTED AND THE
SENATE, OBVIOUSLY, IS NOT AN
ELECTED POSITION, IT'S AN
APPOINTMENT.
WAS THERE ANY PART OF YOU THAT
SAID, "NO, I WANT TO RUN ONE
MORE TIME, I WANT ANOTHER SHOT
AT IT"?

Anne says NO, NO, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AT
ALL BECAUSE WE WERE ALL AWARE AT
THE TIME THAT MR. TRUDEAU WAS
LEAVING.
IT WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR TO ALL OF
US.
AND HE WAS GONE, YOU REMEMBER?
HE RESIGNED IN FEBRUARY.
THIS WAS 1984.
AND THE LEADERSHIP CONVENTION,
THE NEW LEADERSHIP CONVENTION
WAS IN JUNE.
SO, HE CALLED ME TO THE SENATE
IN JANUARY JUST A LITTLE WHILE
BEFORE HE ANNOUNCED THAT HE
WOULD BE RESIGNING IN JUNE.

Steve says AND IN FACT, WE HAVE A
PICTURE OF YOU SIGNING INTO THE
SENATE OF CANADA WITH THE
THEN-SPEAKER MAURICE RIEL.

Anne says OH, YES.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT...
ABOUT THAT MOMENT, WHERE YOU ARE
PUTTING PEN TO PAPER, AND IT'S
ALL OFFICIAL?
A LITTLE GIRL FROM BARBADOS IS
IN THE SENATE OF CANADA.

A colour picture shows Anne in her thirties signing an official document as a balding man in his late forties supervises.

Anne says YES, I REMEMBER THAT MOMENT
VERY, VERY CLEARLY BECAUSE HE
WAS A MONTREAL... A SENATOR FROM
MONTREAL, AND THAT VERY DAY,
LOTS OF... OF SUPPORTERS OF MR.
TRUDEAU ALSO SHOWED UP.
LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, JEAN
MARCHAND.
YOU REMEMBER, IT WAS PELLETIER,
TRUDEAU AND MARCHAND.

Steve says THE THREE WISE MEN.

Anne says THE THREE WISE MEN WHO... WHO
WENT INTO POLITICS TOGETHER, AND
JEAN MARCHAND WAS THERE,
ACTUALLY THAT DAY, AND SO, THAT
DAY IS VERY VIVID IN MY MEMORY
BECAUSE THAT IS REALLY MY FIRST
DAY AS A SENATOR.

Steve says YOUR FIRST DAY AS A SENATOR,
AND YOU WERE A LIBERAL SENATOR
AT THE TIME.

Anne says YES.

Steve says BUT... BUT AT A CERTAIN POINT,
YOU BECAME DISAFFECTED WITH THE
LIBERAL PARTY AND SWITCHED TO
THE CONSERVATIVES AND SAT WITH
THEM IN THE... IN THE
CONSERVATIVE CAUCUS.

Anne says THAT WAS VERY BRIEF.
IT WAS BRIEF.

Steve says AND NOW YOU'RE AN
INDEPENDENT.

In a colour picture, Anne poses behind a chair holding a document, flanked by two Canadian flags.

Anne says YES, WELL, I HAVE BEEN AN
INDEPENDENT ALL ALONG.
I'VE JUST LEARNED TO UNDERSTAND
IT A LOT BETTER.

Steve says YOU HAVE BEEN INDEPENDENT ALL
ALONG...

Anne says YES.

Steve says BUT NOW YOU ARE SORT OF
OFFICIALLY AN INDEPENDENT,
RIGHT?

Anne says I THINK I WAS OFFICIALLY ONE
ALL THE TIME.

Steve says YOU WERE?

Anne says I THINK MR. TRUDEAU THOUGHT
SO, TOO.

Steve says OKAY, SO WHAT... WHAT... WHAT
WAS IT ABOUT YOU AND THE SENATE
WAY OF DOING BUSINESS THAT
CLEARLY DIDN'T MIX?

Anne says WHAT HAPPENED... NO, WHAT
HAPPENED IS THAT IT WAS A BAD
TIME.
THERE WAS A PERIOD WHEN I WAS
QUITE BADLY PERSECUTED, AND I
FOUND IT UNBEARABLE.

Steve says PERSECUTED HOW?

The caption changes to "In the red chamber."

Anne says WELL, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED...
THEY DON'T ALLOW YOU TO SIT ON
COMMITTEES.
YOU DON'T GET TRIPS.
ALL KINDS OF WAYS, THOUSANDS OF
WAYS THAT THEY HAVE OF... OF
HURTING YOU.

Steve says WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DID
THAT?

Anne says BECAUSE SOMETIMES GROUPS OF
WOMEN DO THESE KINDS OF THINGS
JUST BECAUSE THEY DO IT.

Steve says ARE YOU SAYING WOMEN SENATORS
DO THIS TO YOU?

Anne says IT WAS... IT WAS THE WOMEN WHO
WERE DOING IT, AND I WANT YOU TO
KNOW, THOUGH, THERE'S BEEN A LOT
OF RECOVERY FROM THAT, AND THERE
WERE SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO
CHANGED THEIR MINDS ABOUT IT AND
MADE UP, MADE AMENDS TO ME, SO
IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I COULD...
THAT I COULD PUT BEHIND ME,
FINALLY.
BUT I DO KNOW IT REACHED SUCH A
POINT THAT I DID NOT WANT TO BE
A MEMBER OF THE LIBERAL CAUCUS
ANYMORE.

Steve says WELL, YOU KNOW, FOR... FOR
MOST OF ITS HISTORY, THE SENATE
HAS BEEN POPULATED WITH OLD
WHITE GUYS, RIGHT?
THAT WAS THE... AND YOU'RE NOT AN
OLD WHITE GUY.

Anne says NO.

Steve says YOU KNOW, THIS JUST IN.

Anne says NO, 'CAUSE I'M THE OLD
BROWN-SKINNED WOMAN.

Steve says I WOULD... I WOULD... I WOULD
NOT SAY THAT, EITHER.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE THAT OLD,
FRANKLY.

Anne says OKAY.

Steve says WAS THAT SOME OF THE PROBLEM
HERE, IS THAT YOU JUST SORT OF
DIDN'T FIT THE MOULD OF WHAT
THEY THOUGHT A SENATOR SHOULD
LOOK LIKE?

Anne says NO, IT... NO, IT WAS NOT THAT.
IT WAS... IT WAS A FEMALE THING.
IT... IT WAS...
I WOULDN'T WANT... I CAN TELL YOU
MUCH MORE OF THE DETAILS.
WE COULD DO THAT IN PRIVATE, BUT
I WOULDN'T DO THAT IN PUBLIC,
BUT I WAS VERY DEEPLY HURT IN
THAT... IN THAT TIME, BUT BECAUSE
I HAVE HIGH DEGREE OF
FORBEARANCE AND A FAIR MONK OF
ENDURANCE, I JUST STUCK TO MY...
TO MY GUNS AND I JUST STAYED ON
MY PATH.

Steve says WELL, LET ME PICK UP ON THAT
EXPRESSION YOU JUST USED.
YOU SAID, "I'M NOT AN OLD WHITE
GUY."
"I'M A... I'M A... " I THINK YOUR
WORDS WERE "OLD, BROWN-SKINNED
WOMAN."

Anne says WELL, I SAY THAT BECAUSE IN
THE CARIBBEAN, BRITISH
CARIBBEAN, I WAS USED TO BEING
DESCRIBED AS A BROWN-SKINNED
GIRL.

Steve says OKAY.
YOU'RE THE FIRST BLACK FEMALE
SENATOR ANYWHERE IN NORTH
AMERICA.

Anne says MM-HMM.

Steve says YOU WERE THE FIRST BLACK
PERSON EVER APPOINTED TO THE
CANADIAN SENATE.

Anne says MM-HMM.

Steve says AND YOU HAVE SAID BEFORE THAT
YOU DON'T VIEW YOUR SENATORSHIP
THROUGH THE COLOUR OF YOUR SKIN.
WHY NOT?

Anne says I DON'T KNOW WHEN I SAID THAT
BECAUSE I DO NOT.
I-I VIEWED... I VIEW THE WORLD,
YOU KNOW, THROUGH OTHER... MY OWN
EYES, BUT REMEMBER, MY EYES ARE
VERY WELL-TRAINED AND GUIDED BY
YEARS OF READING.
I'M A READER, YOU KNOW.
WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD... YOU
LEARN TO READ, TO WRITE... TO
READ AND WRITE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT
SIX, BUT I TELL YOU, I HAVE
MANY, MANY MEMORIES OF BEING UP
AT FIVE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING
ON SATURDAY MORNINGS AND READING
AWAY, AND I REMEMBER WHEN I CAME
TO... I REMEMBER READING, SAY, I
WAS ABOUT TEN, BECAUSE I COULD
READ QUITE WELL AT THAT STAGE,
AND I WAS READING JOHN BUCHAN'S
BOOK, AND JOHN BUCHAN HAD BEEN A
PRIME... A GOVERNOR GENERAL OF
CANADA.
SO WHEN I CAME TO CANADA AT AGE
13, AND I WAS PUT INTO SCHOOL
IMMEDIATELY -A SCHOOL CALLED
THOMAS D'ARCY MCGEE- THE FIRST
TWO DAYS I WAS THERE, I INQUIRED
AS TO WHO THOMAS D'ARCY MCGEE
WAS AND NOBODY KNEW.
AND I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND THEN AT ONE POINT IN
LITERATURE, I RAISED THE... THE...
THE SENSE OF... THE EXISTENCE OF
JOHN BUCHAN, WHO HAD BEEN A
GOVERNOR GENERAL AND A NOVELIST.
HE WROTE THE BOOK
THIRTY-NINE STEPS,
AND NONE OF
THEM HAD EVER HEARD OF HIM, AND
I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT
AGAIN.
HE WAS A CANADIAN GOVERNOR
GENERAL, AND... AND I GUESS I
HAVEN'T CHANGED MUCH BECAUSE I
AM STILL READING.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, I JUST...
RIGHT NOW, I HAVE... I'M ABOUT TO
MAKE THE FIFTH OF A SERIES OF
FIVE SPEECHES THAT HE MADE, ALL
ON CONFEDERATION.
I'LL SEND YOU COPIES.
I'VE DONE FOUR.
AND WHAT HAPPENED TO ME, I
STARTED TO WRITE ON THIS
IMPORTANT MATTER, JOHN A.
MACDONALD AND SO ON, AND, YOU
KNOW, IT GREW.
FIRST, I HAD 2,000 WORDS, THEN I
HAD 4,000.
THEN I HAD 6,000.
THEN I HAD 8,000, AND ALL OF A
SUDDEN, IT WAS UP TO 12,000
WORDS.
I MEAN, THAT'S A... THAT'S AN
ESSAY, THAT'S A THESIS.
AND THEN I SAID, "OH, WELL," SO
I DIVIDED IT INTO THESE FIVE
SPEECHES, AND I'VE GIVEN FOUR IN
THE SENATE.
I HAVE THE FIFTH TO DO,
HOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.

Steve says AMEN TO THAT.

Anne says AMEN TO THAT.

Steve says I WANNA ASK YOU ABOUT...

Anne says BUT I'M A READER.

Steve says YES.

Anne says ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.

Steve says YES.

Anne says YEAH.

Steve says I WANNA ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT
HAS BECOME, I THINK FAIRLY
RECENTLY, A CONTROVERSY THAT HAS
SORT OF BURST INTO THE OPEN ON
PARLIAMENT HILL, AND I WANT TO
GET YOUR TAKE ON IT.

Anne says OH, YES.

Steve says YOU KNOW THAT THE NEW
DEMOCRAT MP ERIN WEIR HAS BEEN
EXPELLED FROM CAUCUS.
THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS OF, YOU
KNOW, HARASSMENT THERE.

Anne says BUT SHE'S THE ONE HARASSING...
THE ALLEGATION IS...

Steve says I WAS GONNA SAY, THEN THERE'S
ANOTHER NDP MP...

Anne says OKAY, MAYBE WE'RE GETTING
THEM MIXED UP.

Steve says WHO'S ALSO, YEAH, FEMALE FROM
QUEBEC, WHO'S ALSO UNDER
INVESTIGATION FOR SIMILAR
ALLEGATIONS.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU LOST A CABINET
MINISTER BECAUSE OF THESE
ALLEGATIONS.
THERE WERE TWO LIBERAL
BACKBENCH...

Anne says HE WAS A VERY NICE FELLOW, I
THINK...

Steve says KENT HEHR, YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT?
OH, NO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO
MPS.

Anne says RIGHT.
PACHEMA, I THINK HIS NAME WAS.

Steve says YEAH, MASSIMO PACETTI.

Anne says MASSIMO.

Steve says YES.

Anne says MASSIMO PACETTI, THAT'S IT.

Steve says WHO, AGAIN, WERE ASKED TO
LEAVE THE LIBERAL CAUCUS BECAUSE
OF THIS ISSUE.
THERE'S A FORMER CONSERVATIVE
SENATOR WHO RESIGNED, RATHER
THAN GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF
BEING BOOTED OUT.
THE CONSERVATIVES HAD A FORMER
MP, FORMER ONTARIO PC PARTY
PRESIDENT WHO'S ALSO TOSSED OUT
OVER THESE ISSUES.
CANADIANS MAY WONDER WHETHER OR
NOT PARLIAMENT HILL IS JUST RIFE
WITH SEXUAL MISCONDUCT.
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW?

Anne says WELL, IF IT IS, I'VE NOT SEEN
IT, AND MAYBE I'M TOO OLD FOR
ANYBODY TO TRY TO SEXUALLY
HARASS ME.
I DO NOT KNOW, BUT THERE'S NO
AREA OF LAW WHICH IS MORE
TROUBLED, EVER, THAN THE
BUSINESS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT.
NOW, REMEMBER, THE ORIGINAL
CRIME USED TO BE RAPE, AND RAPE
WAS A VERY SERIOUS OFFENCE, AND
IT USED TO CARRY CAPITAL
PUNISHMENT.
SO, A CHARGE OF RAPE WAS AN
EXTREMELY SERIOUS MATTER.
NOW, SOMEWHERE I THINK IN THE
LATE '70S TO THE '80S, THEY DO
AWAY WITH THE TERM 'RAPE' AND
THEY BRING IN 'SEXUAL ASSAULT.'
AND IF I CAN QUOTE A PARTICULAR
JUDGE WHO ONCE SAID SOMETHING TO
THE EFFECT, "THE THING ABOUT
SEXUAL ASSAULT IS THAT A PERSON,
A MAN CAN BE CHARGED WITH SEXUAL
ASSAULT AND THERE WAS NO ASSAULT
AND THERE WAS NO SEX."
WHEREAS IN THE DAYS OF RAPE, I
DON'T BELIEVE FOR A MOMENT THAT
THE HILL IS RIFE WITH... WITH
SEXUAL ASSAULT.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT FOR A MOMENT.

Steve says HOW ABOUT SEXUAL HARASSMENT?

Anne says I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT THAT
IS THE CASE, EITHER.

Steve says 'CAUSE THERE IS, I MEAN,
LET'S... LET'S BE BLUNT THIS...

Anne says WELL, I'M NOT... I'M NOT
ENCOUNTERING IT.

Steve says I UNDERSTAND, BUT THERE ARE...
THERE ARE SORT OF POWERFUL OLDER
MEN WHO, ON A REGULAR BASIS,
INTERACT WITH YOUNGER, LESS
POWERFUL WOMEN, AND THOSE ARE
OFTEN TIMES CONDITIONS UNDER
WHICH THIS KIND OF THING HAPPENS.

Anne says THE OPPOSITE HAPPENS TOO,
BECAUSE YOU CAN FIND SOME OF
THOSE WOMEN CAN BE VERY ACTIVE
IN THEIR PURSUIT OF THEIR
INTERESTS IN... IN ONE OF THOSE
MEN.
SO, AND I'VE KNOWN OF... OF CASES
LIKE THAT, BUT OLDER ONES.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP ON THIS
ANGLE HERE, SENATOR COOLS,
'CAUSE I FIND THIS MOST
FASCINATING ABOUT YOU.
YOU'RE ONE OF THE PEOPLE... I'LL
SAY THIS.
YOU'RE... YOU'RE... YOU'RE KIND OF
A RARE FEMALE POLITICIAN WHO
OFTEN SIDES WITH MEN, WHO LOOKED
OUT FOR SINGLE FATHERS, AND
THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES AND
RIGHTS TO THEIR CHILDREN IN THE
CASE OF DIVORCE.
WHY IS THAT?

Anne says I GUESS BECAUSE MY MOTHER
RAISED ME TO BE A FAIR-MINDED
HUMAN BEING.
AND I'LL TELL YOU A LITTLE STORY.
ONE TIME, AND I REMEMBER THIS...
MY MOTHER'S BEEN DEAD MANY YEARS
NOW, BUT THERE WAS SOME YOUNG
PEOPLE WORKING ON OUR PROPERTY.
I GREW UP ON A SMALL ISLAND BUT
ON A LOT OF LAND, AND THEY WERE
BACK AT THE PROPERTY AND THEY
WERE WORKING, WEEDING AND DOING
THINGS ON OUR LAND, AND MY
MOTHER CALLED ME UP, AND IT WAS
NOT LONG AFTER EASTER.
AND FOR EASTER, I'D HAVE THIS
BIG BOX OF CHOCOLATES, AND I
REMEMBER IT CLEARLY, AND MY
MOTHER CALLED ME.
I HAD A NICKNAME IN THOSE DAYS.
PETER, MY BROTHER, WHO GAVE ME
THE NAME, PETER DIED AS A CHILD,
AND SHE CALLED ME.
SHE SAID, "PETE, I WANT YOU TO
ME A FAVOUR."
I SAID, "OH, YES, MOMMY."
"YES, MOMMY."
SHE SAID, "YOU KNOW THAT BOX OF
CHOCOLATES THAT YOU HAVE?"
"I WANT YOU TO GO AND GET THAT
BOX OF CHOCOLATES AND BRING IT
HERE, AND THEN I WANT YOU TO
CALL EACH ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE
DOWN THERE BY NAME AND OFFER
THEM A CHOCOLATE."
I SAID, "OH, YES, MOMMY, YES,
MOMMY."
I REMEMBER THIS LIKE YESTERDAY.
SO I RAN OFF AND I CAME BACK
WITH MY CHOCOLATES, AND THEN I
DID EVERYTHING SHE TOLD ME.
I STOOD THERE AND I CALLED THEM
UP, ONE BY ONE.
I SAID, "WOULD YOU LIKE A
CHOCOLATE?"
"I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU A
CHOCOLATE."
AND WHAT REALLY STAYS WITH ME IS
WHAT MY MOTHER SAID TO ME.
SHE SAID TO ME, "PETER, THEY
HAVE VERY LITTLE, THOSE PEOPLE."
SHE SAID, "YOU HAVE TO GROW UP
AND TO WORK HARD TO MAKE THEIR
LIVES BETTER."
SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT MY COUSIN
BILLIE, WHO WAS A FOREIGN
MINISTER UNTIL RECENTLY, AND
MYSELF, IT IS NO WONDER, NO
SURPRISE THAT WE HAVE THIS
ATTITUDE TO PUBLIC SERVICE.
BECAUSE OUR PARENTS TAUGHT US
THAT, THAT WE HAVE A DUTY TO
MAKE OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES
BETTER.

Steve says UNDERSTOOD.

Anne says IT IS.

Steve says I WANT TO PUT UP NOW, IF WE
CAN, CONTROL ROOM, A PICTURE OF
THE MAN TO WHOM YOU HAVE BEEN
MARRIED FOR 32 YEARS.

Anne says OOH!

Steve says HERE'S YOUR HUSBAND, ROLF
CALHOUN...

A picture pops up in which Anne and a white-haired man in his sixties sit in a garden with a German Shepherd.

Anne says OH, MY GOODNESS!

Steve says AND THERE... NOW, WHO'S THAT DOG?

Anne says THAT'S OUR DOLL.
WE LOST... WE HAD TO PUT HER DOWN.

Steve says SHE DIED A FEW YEARS
AGO, RIGHT?

Anne says OH, MAN, IT NEARLY
KILLED ME.

Steve says THAT WAS LADY?

Anne says NO, LADY'S THE ONE WE
HAVE NOW.

Steve says OH, LADY, YOU HAVE.

Anne says BUT THIS IS TARA.

Steve says THAT WAS TARA.

Anne says AND SHE WAS A CHAMPION DOG.

Steve says NOW, SENATOR LINDA
FRUM, ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES IN
THE SENATE SAYS THAT BECAUSE YOU
DIDN'T HAVE ANY KIDS OF YOUR
OWN...

Anne says OH, I HAVE A DOG.

Steve says BUT SHE SAYS YOU SOUGHT
FULFILMENT BY BEING A MOTHER TO
ALL.
IS SHE ONTO SOMETHING THERE WITH
THAT?

The caption changes to "Time to say goodbye."

Anne says WELL, UM...
I AM A SOURCE OF SUPPORT FOR
MANY PEOPLE, AND MANY PEOPLE
COME TO TALK TO ME WHEN THEY ARE
TRYING TO SORT OUT PROBLEMS, AND
I PRIDE MYSELF THAT I KEEP ALL
THAT INFORMATION PRIVATE, BUT I
WILL, AND IF ANYONE SEEKS THAT
KIND OF PERSONAL ASSISTANCE, I
WILL CERTAINLY GIVE IT, AND I
TRY TO DO IT WITH WISDOM AND
WITH FULL RESPECT FOR THE... FOR
THE ISSUES.
I REMEMBER YEARS AGO -HE'S LONG
DEAD NOW- BUT HE WAS AN OLDER
SENATOR AND HE WAS ONE OF THE
LAST OF THE DIEFENBAKER
APPOINTMENTS, AND HE'S BEEN DEAD
A LONG TIME, AND HE APPROACHED
ME ONE DAY, AND HE SAID TO ME,
"SENATOR COOLS, I WONDER IF I
COULD HAVE A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR
TIME."
HE SAID, "I'M HAVING SOME FAMILY
PROBLEMS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO
DISCUSS WITH YOU."
ONE CHILD HAD ENTERED INTO A
LOVE AFFAIR WITH SOMEBODY ELSE
THAT THE FAMILY MEMBERS WEREN'T
TOO SURE ABOUT, AND... FOR
WHATEVER REASONS, AND I SAID TO
HIM, "SENATOR, YOU MAKE SURE IN
YOUR DEALINGS THAT YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT YOUR CHILD HERE,
AND YOUR CHILD'S POTENTIAL FOR
HURT."
"YOU, YOU SIT DOWN WITH YOUR
WIFE AND YOU TELL HER THAT
THEY... YOU AND SHE MUST
ABSOLUTELY NEVER SAY ANYTHING
BAD, ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT
THIS LOVE AFFAIR, BECAUSE IF YOU
DO, YOU WILL CERTAINLY LOSE THE
AFFECTION OF THAT CHILD."
AND HE CAME BACK A COUPLE OF
TIMES, AND THEN ONE DAY, HE CAME
BACK AND HE SAID EVERYTHING
HAD... WAS RESOLVED, AND
EVERYBODY WAS HAPPY.
EVERYBODY WAS HAPPY, AND
EVERYBODY WAS ABSOLUTELY LOVING
THIS PARTICULAR PERSON THAT THEY
WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN LOOKED AT
BEFORE.

Steve says WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF MINUTES
LEFT HERE, AND I THINK EVERYBODY
IS KIND OF EXPECT... EXPECTING ME
TO ASK THE FOLLOWING QUESTION...

Anne says OKAY.

Steve says WHICH IS, TRUDEAU, THE
FATHER, PUT YOU IN THE SENATE,
AND TRUDEAU, THE SON, IS NOW THE
PRIME MINISTER.

Anne says YES.

Steve says AND THAT GIVES YOU, IN SOME
RESPECTS, A UNIQUE POSITION FROM
WHICH TO COMPARE AND CONTRAST
THE STRENGTHS OF BOTH MEN.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

Anne says I WOULD SAY ONE THING FIRST.
I SAY THAT... CANADA'S FROM
SEA-TO-SEA, BUT I'M FROM TRUDEAU
TO TRUDEAU.
(CHUCKLING)
I THINK THAT THE TWO TRUDEAUS
ARE QUITE DIFFERENT, THE TWO
MEN ARE QUITE DIFFERENT, AND
THAT IS OKAY TO ME, BUT HE HAS
TO... HE HAS TO... TO CAST HIS OWN
HERITAGE, HIS OWN ACHIEVEMENTS.
IT'S UP TO HIM, AND, UM...

Steve says UP TO JUSTIN?

Anne says UP TO JUSTIN, AND THEY'RE
VERY DIFFERENT PEOPLE, BUT SO...
SO ARE MOST PARENTS AND
CHILDREN.
I WISH HIM VERY WELL, AND I
WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM DO WELL
BECAUSE I HAD A VERY GOOD
RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS FATHER,
BUT HE... HE WILL BE THE MASTER
OF HIS OWN FATE.

Steve says HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO THE
CURRENT PRIME MINISTER ABOUT
YOUR TIMES WITH HIS DAD?

Anne says NO, NEVER DISCUSSED IT, BUT I
DO REMEMBER MR. TRUDEAU'S
FUNERAL VERY WELL.
VERY, VERY WELL.
IT WAS VERY HARD.
I-I COULD HARDLY GET THROUGH IT.
I ACTUALLY DID BREAK DOWN.
IT WAS A-A HUGE THING, AND SO I
DO REMEMBER HIS EULOGY AND... AND
HIS HOMILY.
I DO REMEMBER THAT VERY, VERY
WELL.
I ALSO REMEMBER WHEN MR. CASTRO
ARRIVED AND THE CROWDS WENT UP
IN CHEERS, AND MR. CASTRO WAS
RUSHING TO... TO HOLD... TO TOUCH
THE COFFIN.
AND SO, I DO REMEMBER THE WHOLE
FUNERAL AND THE... AND THE
TERRIBLE SADNESS BECAUSE THAT...
HIS PASSAGE WAS A KIND OF A... IT
HAD AN EFFECT ON AN ENTIRE
GENERATION BECAUSE MANY, MANY
CANADIANS REMEMBER, YOU KNOW,
WHEN HE ANNOUNCED BACK IN '68
"THE JUST SOCIETY."
WHAT A BEAUTIFUL... WHAT A
BEAUTIFUL SIGNAL... SYMBOL, AS
WELL.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says WELL, HE NAMED HIS FIRST-BORN
SON AFTER THAT WORD, YEAH.

Anne says PRECISELY.
SO, NO, THEY'RE DIFFERENT MEN
AND THEY'RE DIFFERENT PEOPLE,
AND THAT IS CORRECT AND THAT IS
PROPER, AND I WISH HIM VERY
WELL BECAUSE I WILL NO LONGER BE
A MEMBER IN A VERY FEW WEEKS.

Steve says WELL, THAT'S WHERE I WANNA
END UP HERE BECAUSE YOUR TERM IS
ABOUT TO EXPIRE WHEN YOU TURN 75
IN AUGUST.

Anne says 12TH.

Steve says AUGUST 12TH.

Anne says THE DAY I WAS BORN.

Steve says WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO?

Anne says OH, I HAVE LOTS OF THINGS TO DO.

Steve says LIKE WHAT?

Anne says LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVEN'T
BEEN ABLE TO PRACTICE MY PIANO
VERY MUCH IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
I WAS SO BUSY.
SO I WANT TO GET BACK TO PUTTING
IN AN HOUR OR TWO EVERY DAY
BECAUSE I MUST RECAPTURE SOME OF
WHAT I'VE LOST.
I ALSO HAVE A DOG SO I ALWAYS
NEED TIME TO WORK WITH MY DOG.
IN ADDITION... IN ADDITION TO
THAT, I LIKE TO GET TO THE GYM
EVERY OTHER MORNING AND TO SPEND
A FULL HOUR AT THE GYM.
I DID IT THIS MORNING HERE.
AND SO, I WOULD LIKE TO GET BACK
TO THOSE ORDINARY THINGS THAT
I'VE BEEN CUTTING A LITTLE THIN
FOR THE LONGEST TIME BECAUSE
I'VE BEEN A LITTLE BIT BUSY.
I ALSO WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME
WITH MY HUSBAND AS WELL.
AND THAT WAS MY HUSBAND THAT YOU
JUST SAW.

(CHUCKLING)

Steve says THOSE SOUND LIKE VERY
REASONABLE THINGS TO DO.

Anne says I THINK SO.

Steve says I HOPE IF YOU HAVE A CONCERT
AT SOME POINT, YOU'LL INVITE US
ALL HERE SO WE CAN SEE YOU
PERFORM AS THE...

Anne says OH, NO, I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

Steve says THE GRAND PIANIST THAT YOU
WILL BE.

Anne says NO, I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

Steve says WELL, WE'LL SEE.
WE'LL SEE.

Anne says I'M NOT THAT GOOD, BUT I CAN
INVITE YOU TO MY HOUSE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Harrison Lowman, @harrisonlowman."

Steve says WE WANT TO THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR SPENDING SO MUCH TIME
WITH US HERE TONIGHT ON TVO.
IT'S NOT YOUR FIRST TIME HERE
AND HOPEFULLY WON'T BE THE LAST.
SO, SENATOR ANNE COOLS, WE WISH
YOU WELL WITH WHATEVER COMES
NEXT FOR YOU.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Anne says THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Watch: A Powerful Presence in the Senate