Transcript: Hamilton's Urban Renaissance | Apr 05, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a black suit, a white shirt and a patterned black and blue tie.

A caption reads "Hamilton’s urban renaissance."

The caption changes to "Twitter: @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says THE CITY OF HAMILTON'S
COOL QUOTIENT HAS BEEN ON THE
RISE FOR SOME TIME.
BUT THE PROSPERITY THAT'S GOT
SOME CELEBRATING HAS OTHERS
WORRIED ABOUT WHETHER THE URBAN
RENAISSANCE THERE COULD BE
LEAVING SOME PEOPLE BEHIND.
AND AFTER A ONE-NIGHT SPREE OF
VANDALISM ON DOWNTOWN'S LOCKE
STREET RECENTLY... AND THE
COMMUNITY'S RESPONSE TO IT...
WELL, IT SUGGESTS THERE'S A LOT
OF STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT WHERE
THINGS ARE HEADED.
JOINING US NOW FROM THE
AMBITIOUS CITY FOR MORE, VIA
SKYPE:
RICHARD HARRIS, PROFESSOR OF
URBAN GEOGRAPHY AT McMASTER
UNIVERSITY;

Richard is in his sixties, with short straight white hair and a beard. He wears a striped shirt under a red sweater.

Steve says AND HERE IN OUR STUDIO:
MATTHEW GREEN, HAMILTON CITY
COUNCILLOR FOR WARD 3, AND
TREASURER OF THE CITY'S PUBLIC
HOUSING CORPORATION;

Matthew is in his thirties, with short brown hair and clean-shaven. He wears a dark gray suit, a pink shirt and a dark gray tie.

Steve says LAURA CATTARI, COORDINATOR,
HAMILTON ROUNDTABLE FOR POVERTY
REDUCTION'S CAMPAIGN;

Laura is in her forties, with shoulder length slightly wavy brown hair and wears glasses and a turtleneck sweater.

Steve says AND KRYSTA BOYER, REALTOR AND
FOUNDER OF THE CITY-BRANDING
INITIATIVE, TRY HAMILTON.

Krysta is in her thirties, with long curly brown hair and wears a red top and a black blazer.

Steve says WHICH WE ARE DOING ON OUR
PROGRAM TONIGHT.
SO GOOD OF ALL OF YOU TO JOIN
US.
THANK YOU, RICHARD, FOR BEING
THERE FROM THE STEEL CITY AS
WELL.
AND ACTUALLY, AS THE WORDS COME
OUT OF MY MOUTH, RICHARD, THE
STEEL CITY, PERHAPS WE SHOULD
JUST START THERE.
MY HUNCH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE'S
IMPRESSION OF HAMILTON IS 30
YEARS OUT OF DATE, AND I WONDER
IF YOU COULD JUST VERY GENTLY
AND BRIEFLY TELL US ABOUT HOW
THE CITY'S STORY HAS CHANGED
OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES.

The caption changes to "Hamilton’s urban renaissance. The story of Steeltown."

A split screen shows Steve to the left and Richard to the right with the caption "Hamilton, Ontario."

The caption changes to "Richard Harris. McMaster University."

Richard says WELL, FOR
SURE IT'S LOST A LOT OF
MANUFACTURING JOBS, INCLUDING
THAT STEEL.
THE MAIN EMPLOYERS THESE DAYS
ARE HEALTH AND EDUCATION.
SO THAT'S CERTAINLY A BIG CHANGE
IN TERMS OF MOST PEOPLE'S
PERCEPTION.
THE ONE THING THAT HASN'T
CHANGED VERY MUCH, BUT I GUESS
THAT'S THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE
DAY, IS THE CHARACTER OF THE
LOWER CITY, WHICH IS STILL VERY
MUCH A RELATIVELY LOW INCOME
SORT OF AREA, BUT IF YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE CITY AS A
WHOLE, IT BRANDS ITSELF THESE
DAYS AS THE CITY OF WATERFALLS,
WHICH I GUESS WAS ALWAYS TRUE.

Steve says IT WAS ALWAYS TRUE.
AND NOW PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY
GOING TO SEE THEM IN BIGGER
NUMBERS.
HOW ABOUT, THOUGH, WHETHER YOU
WANT TO CALL IT URBAN RENEWAL OR
GENTRIFICATION, PICK YOUR TERM,
HOW RECENT A PHENOMENON IS THAT
IN THE CITY OF HAMILTON?

Richard says WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY THE LAST
DECADE, REALLY, IT'S GATHERED
MOMENTUM IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS,
REALLY.
CERTAINLY PEOPLE WEREN'T TALKING
ABOUT IT MUCH BEFORE, LET'S SAY,
FIVE YEARS AGO.
THE MAP THAT'S UP ON YOUR
SCREENS, I GUESS, LET ME SAY
THREE THINGS ABOUT THAT MAP THAT
YOU NEED TO BEAR IN MIND
THINKING ABOUT IT.

A map of Hamilton appears with the title "Neighbourhood income over ten years. Hamilton Census Metropolitan Area (2005 to 2015)." An area highlighted in green represents an upward trend of 10 percent or more (11 percent of the total), an area in white represents a less than 10 percent upward trend (78 percent of the total) and an area in orange represents a downward trend of 10 percent or more (11 percent of the total)."

Richard says NUMBER ONE, IT'S A MAP OF
CHANGE.
THAT IS TO SAY, CHANGE IN THE
RELATIVE INCOME POSITION OF
THESE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE
URBAN AREA.
SO THE GREEN, YES, THAT'S AREAS
THAT HAVE SEEN IN THAT PERIOD OF
TIME, 2005 TO 2015, HAVE SEEN A
RISE IN INCOME.
THE ORANGE IS A DOWNWARD SHIFT.
BUT IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING
ABOUT ACTUALLY THE LEVEL OF
INCOME AT ANY POINT IN TIME.
SO SOME OF THOSE GREEN AREAS
WERE HIGH INCOME, SOME WERE
MIDDLE INCOME, SOME WERE LOW
INCOME.
SO THIS IS JUST AN ISSUE OF
CHANGE.
THE OTHER THING ABOUT THE MAP,
OF COURSE, IS THAT THOSE
SUBURBAN AREAS AND THEIR
SUBURBAN AND EX-URBAN OR
WHATEVER... RURAL IN PARTS, IT'S
KINDS OF MISLEADING BECAUSE IN
TERMS OF POPULATION, THE
POPULATION OF MANY OF THOSE
AREAS IS RELATIVELY LIMITED.
SO THAT'S THE OTHER THING.
AND THEN THE THIRD THING IS, YOU
KNOW, AS A MAP OF CHANGE, IT
DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE
RELATIVE INCOME, THE ACTUAL
INCOME LEVEL IN THOSE DIFFERENT
PARTS OF THE URBAN AREA.
AND THE STORY OF HAMILTON, AS
YOU KNOW, STEVE, AS MANY PEOPLE
KNOW IN RECENT DECADES SINCE THE
'70s CERTAINLY, HAS BEEN LONG
RUN DECLINE OF THE LOWER CITY
BELOW THE ESCARPMENT, CLOSE TO
THE LAKE.
THOSE ARE THE OLDER PARTS OF THE
CITY.
BY 2005, THE AVERAGE INCOME IN
THAT WHOLE AREA WAS 75 TO
80 PERCENT THAT OF THE
METROPOLITAN AREA.
SO IT WAS ONE OF THE LARGEST
AREAS OF LOW INCOME SETTLEMENT
OR NEIGHBOURHOODS IN THE WHOLE
OF THE COUNTRY...

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP
WITH... LET ME FOLLOW UP WITH
LAURA.
I THINK THE FIRST TIME YOU WERE
ON THIS PROGRAM, LAURA, YOU
DESCRIBED HAMILTON AS A
REASONABLE PLACE TO LIVE.
IS IT STILL?

The caption changes to "Laura Cattari. Hamilton Round Table for Poverty."

Laura says NO.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AT THE TIME I ACTUAL... I
ACTUALLY RECALL THAT.
I WAS PAYING ABOUT 525 DOLLARS A MONTH
FOR MY SHELTER, AND NOW IT'S
ABOUT DOUBLE THAT.
AND THAT'S ONLY SIX YEARS.
SO THERE'S BEEN A SHOCKING RISE
IN SHELTER COST IN THE CITY.

Steve says HOW COME?

Laura says WELL, PART OF IT IS THIS
WONDERFUL RENEWAL OF THE CORE.
I LIVE RIGHT DOWNTOWN.
AND THE OTHER PART IS, WE ARE
SEEING MORE TRANSPLANTS FROM
TORONTO.
IT'S GETTING TOTALLY
UNAFFORDABLE FOR THEM.
THEY'RE COMING TO WHERE THE
MARKET WAS LOWER.
AND IT'S BEING EATEN UP.
THE OTHER PROBLEM IS VACANCY
RATES.
WHEN VACANCY RATES GET VERY LOW,
WHAT WE SEE IS RENTAL RATES GO
REALLY HIGH.
IT'S JUST SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Steve says GOTCHA.
TRY HAMILTON IS YOUR GROUP.
WHAT'S YOUR MISSION?

The caption changes to "Krysta Boyer. Try! Hamilton."

Krysta says SO TRY HAMILTON WAS BORN OUT
OF THE DESIRE TO SHOWCASE
NEIGHBOURHOODS.
ORIGINALLY THE INTENT WAS FOR IT
TO BE REAL ESTATE CRAWL BUT I
WANTED IT TO BE MORE OF THAT
BECAUSE OF MY AFFLICTION FOR
HAMILTON.
SO...

Steve says SORRY, DID YOU SAY
AFFLICTION FOR HAMILTON?

Krysta says OR LOVE.

Steve says YOU MEAN AFFECTION.
[LAUGHTER]

Krysta says THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

Steve says WE SHOULD CLARIFY
THAT OFF THE TOP THERE.
OKAY.

Krysta says SO WHAT I WANTED TO
DEMONSTRATE IN THESE
NEIGHBOURHOODS, KENILWORTH
BEING THE FIRST WE EXPLORED,
THERE'S A COMMUNITY BASE THERE.
THE PIECE WE PUT TOGETHER WAS
ONE THAT SHOWCASED THE
INVESTMENT ON A FINANCIAL AND
EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL LEVEL.
SO WE HAVE A HOLISTIC APPROACH
WHEN WE DO OUR EVENTS.
THE IDEA IS TO DEMONSTRATE THE
COMMUNITY THAT EXISTS AND THEN
SHOW PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITIES AS
FAR AS WHERE THE GAPS ARE AND
HOW THEY CAN INSERT THEMSELVES
WITHIN THAT ESTABLISHED
COMMUNITY.

Steve says WHAT'S YOUR CONCERN
ON THIS ISSUE?

The caption changes to "Matthew Green. Hamilton City Councillor."

Matthew says I THINK THE CONCERN IS THAT
WE CONTINUE TO USE THIS WORD
GENTRIFICATION, FREQUENTLY USED,
POORLY UNDERSTOOD.
WE HAD NAFTA, THE WHOLE SALE
SELL OFF OF OUR INDUSTRIAL
LEGACY, INDUSTRIES IN THE NORTH
END WHICH CAUSED I THINK MIDDLE
CLASS FLIGHT FROM INNER CITIES.
THE RUSH FOR MIDDLE CLASS
FAMILIES TO GO TO SUBURBS.
THEN WE HAD RED LINING OF OUR
NEIGHBOURHOODS.

The caption changes to "Hamilton’s urban renaissance. Revitalization versus Gentrification."

Steve says WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Matthew says MORTGAGE COMPANIES AND BANKS
REFUSED TO PROVIDE CAPITAL TO
LOCAL ECONOMIES TO ALLOW LOCAL
BUSINESSES TO INVEST IN THEIR
OWN NEIGHBOURHOODS.
THEN WE HAD WHAT MANY OF US FEEL
IS A POLICY OF SOCIAL
CONTAINMENT WHERE, IN THE VERY
PLACE THAT KRYSTA WAS TALKING
ABOUT, THE BARTON KENILWORTH
AREA, THERE SEEMED TO BE THIS
POLICY OF CONTAINMENT OF SOCIAL
PRESSURE, DRUG TRADE, SEX TRADE,
AND THEN THE... YOU KNOW, I'M
GOING TO SAY ARTIFICIALLY
SUPPRESSED VALUES OF HOUSING.
FAST FORWARD TO NOW, I BELIEVE
THAT THE FOLKS THAT ARE MOVING
TO TORONTO ARE MOVING BECAUSE OF
A SYSTEM.
A SYSTEM THAT HAS PRICED THEM
OUT OF THEIR OWN NEIGHBOURHOODS.

Steve says YOU MEAN MOVING FROM
TORONTO.

Matthew says RIGHT.

Steve says OUT OF TORONTO TO
HAMILTON.

Matthew says THEY ARE AN EFFECT OF A
CAUSE.
AND THAT CAUSE IS THE
COMMODIFICATION OF HOUSING.
SO WHEN WE ALLOW MARKETS TO
DETERMINE WHERE PEOPLE LIVE AND
WHAT IS AFFORDABLE, WE ARE GOING
TO HAVE THIS ECOSYSTEM THAT
SHIFTS PEOPLE TO OTHER CITIES
BECAUSE THEY ARE INCREASINGLY
CAUGHT WITH HIGHER COST OF
LIVING AND THEY HAVE TO MOVE TO
HAMILTON.

Steve says LET ME THROW THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT OUT
THERE, THOUGH, FOR ARGUMENT'S
SAKE, WHICH IS, I MEAN, THE
NEIGHBOURHOOD YOU HAVE
DESCRIBED, THE BARTON
KENILWORTH AREA, THAT'S THE
OLDER EAST END OF THE CITY, SOME
OF WHICH IS FAIRLY RUN-DOWN,
SOME OF WHICH HAS BEEN
ABANDONED.
IF PEOPLE WANT TO COME IN...
OKAY, THIS WORD IS VERY
PEJORATIVE AGAIN, BUT LET'S TRY
IT, AND GENTRIFY OR RENEW OR
BRING BACK TO LIFE BUILDINGS
WHICH HAD BEEN EMPTY OR LEFT
DERELICT, THEREFORE ARE
PROVIDING NO REVENUE TO THE
CITY, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

The caption changes to "Matthew Green. @MGreenWard3."

The caption changes to "Connect with us: tvo.org, @theagenda, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope and Instagram."

Matthew says YOU RAISE A GREAT POINT.
THERE IS A PROCESS OF WHAT I
CALL VULTURE CAPITALISM WHERE
PEOPLE WILL COME INTO
COMMUNITIES AND THEY WILL
SPECULATE AND THEY WILL CONTINUE
TO LEAVE BUILDINGS EMPTY,
UNUSED, AND QUITE FRANKLY, THE
MUNICIPALITIES PARTICIPATE IN
THIS PROCESS.
BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN
DRAW REVENUES INTO
MUNICIPALITIES IS FOR WHAT WE
CALL ECONOMIC UPLIFT.
AND THAT IS THE FORCED
APPRECIATION OF PRICES TO ALLOW
FOR THEM TO HAVE A HIGHER TAX
ASSESSMENT, TO ALLOW MORE
REVENUES TO MUNICIPALITIES.
THE CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE IS
SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES THAT
ARE COMING INTO OUR COMMUNITIES,
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY SERVE OUR
COMMUNITIES.
AND FOR SOME FOLKS IT MIGHT BE
DISTASTEFUL THAT THERE'S A
RESTAURANT THAT OPENS UP WHERE A
MEAL MIGHT COST WHAT THEY BUDGET
FOR A WEEK IN FOOD.
AND SO IF WE'RE NOT REFLECTING
FAIR ECONOMIES AND LOCAL
ECONOMIES, IF WE'RE NOT
PROVIDING ACCESS TO CAPITAL FOR
LOCAL COMMUNITIES, THEN WE ARE
PARTICIPATING IN A VULTURE
CAPITALISM WHICH PREYS ON THESE
NEIGHBOURHOODS WHICH HAVE BEEN
SUPPRESSED THROUGH SOCIAL
PRESSURE.

Steve says LAURA, TELL US HOW
THAT LOOKS FROM YOUR END OF
THINGS.
BECAUSE, AGAIN, SOME PEOPLE
WOULD SAY, AS MATTHEW CALLS
THEM, VULTURE CAPITALISTS ARE IN
FACT NOT VULTURES, THEY ARE
COMING IN RENEWING PARTS OF THE
CITY THAT HAVE LONG BEEN LEFT
DEAD?

Laura says I WANT TO
PICK UP SOMETHING THAT WAS MADE.
IT'S THE COMMODIFICATION OF
HOUSING IN PARTICULAR.
HOUSING IS A HUMAN RIGHT.
BUT WE DON'T TREAT IT AS SUCH.
IT'S AN ESSENTIAL BASIC NEED.
SO WHEN YOU GET INVESTORS COMING
IN, OR PEOPLE SPECULATING... AND
I'LL GET TO THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY
WANTING TO COME IN AND LIVE
THERE AND BE PART OF COMMUNITIES
IN A MOMENT... BUT THAT
SPECULATION DRIVES PEOPLE OUT OF
THEIR HOMES.
IT LITERALLY DISPLACES PEOPLE.
AND IN THE CORE, HAMILTON CENTRE
FOR LACK OF A BETTER
GEOGRAPHICAL AREA, WE HAVE A 30 percent
POVERTY RATE.
SO WHEN YOU DOUBLE, TRIPLE
PRICING ON NOT ONLY SHELTER BUT
ON FOOD, ON CLOTHING, ON ALL THE
GOODS AND SERVICES AVAILABLE TO
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, MORE UPSCALE
LUXURY MODELS, THEN PEOPLE CAN'T
AFFORD TO EVEN SHOP LOCALLY.
AND SO YOU LITERALLY ARE FORCING
PEOPLE OUT OF NOT ONLY THEIR
HOMES BUT OUT OF LOCAL STORES.
WHEN THAT HAPPENS, AND YOU DON'T
HAVE SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR PEOPLE
TO LIVE IN YOUR CITY BECAUSE
VACANCY RATES ARE LOW, YOU GET
MORE HOMELESSNESS.
AND IT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE GOES
INTO HOSPITAL AND CAN'T AFFORD
THEIR RENT, YOU KNOW,
BREADWINNER IN THE FAMILY LOSES
THEIR JOB, WE DO SEE MORE AND
MORE FAMILIES DISPLACED.

Steve says LET ME GO TO RICHARD
ON THE ISSUE OF... BECAUSE I
THINK IT'S BEEN REFERENCED A
COUPLE OF TIMES HERE... THE
INFLUENCE THAT TORONTO AND
TORONTONIANS WHO ARE LEAVING THE
CAPITAL CITY, BECAUSE IT'S JUST
TOO DAMNED EXPENSIVE TO LIVE
HERE NOW, AND WHAT INFLUENCE
THEY'RE HAVING ON THIS WHOLE
SITUATION IN HAMILTON.
TELL US.

Richard says WELL, I
MEAN, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY VERY
IMPORTANT.
I MEAN, HAMILTON IS REALLY
DIFFERENT FROM ALMOST ANY OTHER
CANADIAN CITY IN THE SENSE THAT
WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS DETERMINED
NOT JUST BY THE LOCAL IMMEDIATE
EMPLOYMENT SITUATION OR ANYTHING
OF THAT SORT, BUT BY TORONTO.
IT'S NOT A STANDALONE...
HAMILTON IS NOT, AND FOR MANY
YEARS HAS NOT BEEN A STANDALONE
PLACE.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
GENTRIFICATION, IF WE'RE GOING
TO USE THE "G" WORD, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S GENTRIFICATION IN
HAMILTON THAT'S HAPPENED IN
PARTICULAR AREAS BUT THERE'S
ALSO A GENTRIFICATION OF
HAMILTON WHICH OTHER PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN SORT OF REFERRING TO, WHICH
IS TO SAY, PEOPLE MOVING TO
HAMILTON AND MAYBE COMMUTING
BACK TO TORONTO OR JUST MOVING
TO HAMILTON AND TRYING TO MAKE A
LIVING HERE, AND THEN THERE'S
THE INVESTORS, THE VULTURES, OR
WHATEVER, BUT CERTAINLY THERE'S
BEEN A HUGE INFLUENCE FROM
TORONTO ON HAMILTON, JUST THE
HOUSE PRICES, REAL ESTATE PRICES
HAVE BEEN GOING IN LOCK-STEP,
ONE WITH THE OTHER, FOR 15, 20
YEARS OR MORE.
SO AS PRICES IN TORONTO GO UP,
PRICES IN HAMILTON GO UP.

Steve says WELL, LET ME ASK
KRYSTA ABOUT THAT.
BECAUSE AS A REALTOR WHOSE
LIVING OBVIOUSLY DEPENDS ON
PROPERTIES MOVING AND PRESUMABLY
YOU LIKE PEOPLE COMING TO
HAMILTON AND BUYING HOMES THERE,
WHAT DO YOU... HOW DO YOU REACT
WHEN YOU HEAR THIS TERM "VULTURE
CAPITALIST" USED TO DESCRIBE
SOME OF WHAT'S GOING ON?

The caption changes to "Krysta Boyer. TryHamilton.ca."

Krysta says EVERYTHING
CAN BE BROKEN DOWN INTO
SUBSECTIONS, RIGHT?
BECAUSE THERE ARE THOSE
INVESTORS I'VE WORKED WITH WHERE
THEY'RE SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE.
BUT THEN, OF COURSE, THERE ARE
THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE
INSERTED THEMSELVES INTO THE
CITY AND I DON'T AGREE WITH
THEIR PRACTICES.
AND THERE IS A VERY FINE LINE
BETWEEN THE TWO WORLDS AS FAR AS
INVESTMENT.
SO IT'S A REAL CHALLENGE TO... I
MEAN, I FIND MYSELF IN A VERY
GREAT POSITION IN THE SENSE THAT
MY CLIENTS ARE QUITE ETHICAL IN
THEIR PRACTICES, BUT EVEN STILL,
WITHIN CERTAIN PARAMETERS AND
BOUNDARIES OF THOSE ETHICAL
PRACTICES.
AND LOOKING AT WHAT... HOW
INVESTORS CAN ETHICALLY INVEST
IN THE CITY IS THE CHALLENGE
THAT WE'RE FACING IN HAMILTON,
AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT
THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE
LANDSCAPE, THE SOCIAL LANDSCAPE
THAT WE ARE ALL QUITE FAMILIAR
WITH BECAUSE WE ARE LIVING
WITHIN THE CITY.
SO I THINK THERE'S AN
EDUCATIONAL PIECE THAT'S
MISSING.
AND AS FAR AS... AND POLICY
MAKING AS WELL.
I KNOW THE CITY, COUNCILLOR
GREEN HAS BEEN PART OF THAT, AS
HAVE OTHERS AS FAR AS PUTTING
FORTH EFFORTS TO BRING POLICY
MAKING INTO PLACE TO MAKE THESE
INVESTORS, THESE VULTURE
CAPITALISTS THAT ARE COMING INTO
THE CITY, ACCOUNTABLE.

Steve says THE LANDSCAPE
CHANGED PRETTY DRAMATICALLY A
COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
COUNCILLOR GREEN I'M GOING TO
ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE MONITOR
HERE IN THE STUDIO AND TELL US,
THIS HAPPENED A COUPLE OF MONTHS
AGO ON LOCKE STREET.
THERE WAS A DEMONSTRATION OF
SORTS.
PEOPLE WANDERING THROUGH THE
DOWNTOWN WITH A SIGN SAYING "WE
ARE THE UNGOVERNABLE."
WHAT WAS GOING ON THAT NIGHT?

Matthew says WHAT I SEE
ON THAT SCREEN IS A BUNCH OF
SELF INDULGENT THRILL SEEKERS.
IT'S NOT LOST ON ME THEY PICKED
LOCKE THE CENTRE OF THEIR
ATTACK.

Steve says BECAUSE THIS WAS ON
LOCKE STREET.

Matthew says I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CLEAR
I DON'T SEE THERE BEING THIS LOW
OR POOR UPRISING IN A CLASS WAR
AGAINST THE RICH.

Steve says TELL EVERYBODY,
FIRST OF ALL, FOR THOSE WHO
MISSED IT.
WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT?

Matthew says SO A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
CLAIMING TO BE ANARCHISTS WERE
ATTENDING A LOCAL ANARCHIST
EVENT, MANY OF WHICH I GUESS
HAVE BEEN REPORTED WERE FROM OUT
OF TOWN.
TOO BEING IT UPON OURSELVES TO
MARCH THROUGH OUR CITY AND
VANDALIZE IN A VERY VIOLENT WAY
BUSINESSES WHILE PEOPLE WERE
ACTUALLY IN THEM, THROWING
BRICKS, SMASHING WINDOWS, AND
GENERALLY BULLYING AND HARASSING
AND INTIMIDATING THE PATRONS ON
THAT STREET.

Steve says WAS THERE AN
ESTIMATE OF HOW MUCH DAMAGE WAS
DONE THAT NIGHT?

Matthew says I'M UNCLEAR WHAT THE TOTAL
COST WAS.

Steve says SIX FIGURES, THOUGH,
ANYWAY, RIGHT?

Matthew says AND A MUCH GREATER IMPACT ON
THE COMMUNITY.
WHAT WE'VE SEEN AS A RESULT ARE
COUNTER PROTESTS, WHITE
SUPREMACISTS,
ULTRA-NATIONALISTS, WALKING ON
PATRIOT WALKS UP AND DOWN THE
STREET AND TARGETING OUR
SYNAGOGUES AND LOCAL
COMMUNITIES.
I THINK THE END GOAL OF AN
ANARCHIST IS CHAOS.
WHAT WE'VE ALLOWED IN OUR CITY
TO SOME EXTENT, ASIDE FROM THE
LOVE LOCKE STREET GROUP WHICH
WAS A GREAT RESPONSE WHICH
REALLY SUPPORTED THE STREET
THERE, WAS CHAOS.
I THINK WHAT WAS MISSED, AND I'M
SURE KRYSTA WILL SHARE, IS THAT
THESE TYPES OF ACTIONS HAVE BEEN
HAPPENING IN OUR CITY.
WE DO HAVE, AS I SAY, AN OPIOID
EPIDEMIC, WHICH IS CREATING
VANDALISM, GRAFFITI ACROSS THE
CITY, AND PARTICULARLY IN MY
WARD, WHICH WE'RE TRYING TO
ADDRESS.
BUT WHAT WE'RE MISSING IS THAT
THE REAL VIOLENCE THAT I GET
EVERY SINGLE DAY IN MY OFFICE
ARE THE PHONE CALLS FROM
FAMILIES WHO ARE BEING EVICTED,
WHO ARE HAVING TO FIND SHELTER.
AND WHEN I, AS A COUNCILLOR,
HAVE TO MAKE CALLS TO EVERY
SINGLE SHELTER IN MY CITY ONLY
TO BE TOLD THAT THERE IS NO ROOM
FOR A FAMILY, THAT I HAVE TO
CALL BURLINGTON OR GUELPH TO
FIND SOMEBODY A PLACE TO LIVE,
AND IF I COULD, TO GO FURTHER,
STEVE, IT'S ALSO NOT LOST ON ME
THAT WITHIN A KILOMETRE OF LOCKE
STREET, THAT SUMMER THERE WERE
25 PEOPLE LIVING IN TENTS.
WE HAVE A TALE OF TWO CITIES.
THERE IS A PROSPERITY, BUT IT'S
NOT A SHARED PROSPERITY, AND
IT'S LEADING FAR TOO MANY...
LEAVING FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE
BEHIND.

Steve says KRYSTA, LET ME...
RICHARD, STAND BY.
I'LL GET TO YOU RIGHT AFTER
THIS.
THE UNGOVERNABLE, AS THEY
DESCRIBED THEMSELVES, CLAIMED
THIS WAS AN ANTI-GENTRIFICATION
PROTEST.
WAS THIS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU
HAD SEEN THIS KIND OF PROTESTING
AGAINST GENTRIFICATION IN
HAMILTON IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?

The caption changes to "Krysta Boyer. @KrystaBoyer."

Krysta says NO, ACTUALLY.
SO THE FIRST ENCOUNTER I HAD
WITH THIS GROUP WOULD BE
JUNE 25TH IN 2016, AND IT WAS
WHEN I HOSTED THE FIRST TRY
HAMILTON EVENT AND WE LAUNCHED
AT TIM HORTON'S FIELD WHERE WE
HAD MAYOR EISENBERGER AS OUR
GUEST AND ONCE WE WERE LEAVING
THE ADDRESS, WE HAD 40
INDIVIDUALS WHO HAD CHASED AWAY
THE BUS DRIVERS ON THE TWO HR
BUSES THAT WE HAD AND VANDALIZED
THE BUSES AND THERE WERE VARIOUS
SIGNS DEMONSTRATING THEIR
DISTASTE FOR DEVELOPERS, NAMING
US AS DEVELOPER SCUM AND USING
SOME CRUDE LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE
US AS WELL.
WHAT PURSUED ON THAT DAY WAS
EVENTUALLY THEY ASSAULTED ONE OF
MY GUESTS AND THEN WHEN TWO OF
THE ARRIVING OFFICERS ATTEMPTED
TO INTERVENE, THE OFFICERS WERE
OVERWHELMED, AND ONE... THEY HAD
THEIR PARTNER... OR THE PERSON
THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO ARREST
FLED, EVERYONE SCATTERED, AND
THE COPS WERE MISSING A HAT.

Steve says SO THIS IS A
PHENOMENON NOW.

Krysta says AND IT'S BEEN ONGOING.
SO SINCE THAT EVENT, IT HAS BEEN
ONGOING.
SO THEY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN
DIRECTLY TARGETING MYSELF.
THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS THROUGH
SOCIAL MEDIA, THEY'VE BEEN DOING
THIS THROUGH DIFFERENT BLOGS AND
ARTICLES AND POSTERS, WHICH
THEY'RE VERY GOOD AT PUTTING UP
POSTERS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
THEY'VE NAMED ME.
THEY'VE NAMED MY BROKERAGE.
ADDITIONALLY ON THE ONE-YEAR
ANNIVERSARY OF OUR FIRST EVENT,
THEY VANDALIZED MY OFFICE SPACE
AND VANDALIZED THE BUILDING FOR
WHICH I HAD PRIOR LISTED.

Steve says CAN YOU DO ANYTHING
ABOUT THIS?

Krysta says WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PART
OF THE PROBLEM.
I'VE HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS
WITH INDIVIDUALS AS FAR AS, YOU
KNOW, WHAT DO WE DO?
AND THERE ARE THOSE IN THE CAMP
OF WE NEED TO HAVE A DIALOGUE
WITH THEM.
WHEREAS I DON'T BELIEVE A
DIALOGUE WITH THIS GROUP WILL
GET US ANY TYPE OF OUTCOME.

Steve says BECAUSE THEY'RE
PLAIN ANARCHISTS TRYING TO
CREATE CHAOS?

Krysta says EXACTLY.
I SEE THEM MORE AS CRIMINALS AND
VANDALS THAT ANY TYPE OF GROUP
LOOKING FOR A PRODUCTIVE
RESOLUTION OR OUTCOME.

Steve says LET ME GET RICHARD
HARRIS TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, IF
YOU WOULD?

Richard says RIGHT.
I WAS VERY INTERESTED BECAUSE I
KNEW SOME OF THAT, NOT ALL.
THE THING THAT STRIKES ME ABOUT
THIS... THE RECENT EVENTS ON
LOCKE STREET IS HOW SYMPTOMATIC
THEY ARE OF WHAT'S BEEN
HAPPENING ELSEWHERE AS WELL.
40 YEARS AGO... 30, 20 YEARS
AGO, IN CITIES THAT WERE
EXPERIENCING GENTRIFICATION, AND
HAMILTON WAS NOT, BUT TORONTO
WAS AND LONDON AND SAN FRANCISCO
AND THESE PLACES WERE, YOU
DIDN'T GET MILITANT VANDALS...
MAYBE AN OCCASIONAL BIT OF
GRAFFITI OR SOMETHING OF THAT
SORT AND SOME CONCERNS
EXPRESSED.
BUT THE VANDALISM, THE MILITANCY
THAT WE'VE SEEN IN HAMILTON,
YES, BUT ALSO IN BROOKLYN, NEW
YORK, OR IN DENVER, COLORADO,
AND ALL OVER THE PLACE, I THINK
IS VERY MUCH A SYMPTOM OF THE
TIMES.
IT'S NOT JUST GENTRIFICATION
THAT'S THE ISSUE.
PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT INCOME
INEQUALITY, THE 1 percent, THE
MILITANCY IS RELATED TO THE
BROADER I THINK POLARIZATION OF
POLITICS.
MAYBE LESS IN CANADA THAN IN THE
UNITED STATES AND OTHER PLACES,
BUT IT'S HERE TOO.
AND SO I THINK THAT THE KIND OF
THING THAT KRYSTA HAS BEEN
EXPERIENCING, THE SORT OF STUFF
THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING ON LOCKE
STREET, THAT GROUNDSWELL OF
REALLY MILITANT OPPOSITION SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE TIMES THAT WE'RE
LIVING IN. IT'S NOT JUST
HAMILTON. IT'S NOT JUST
GENTRIFICATION. THERE'S A MUCH
LARGER CONTEXT THAT'S REALLY
SHAPING THE WAY PEOPLE ARE
ACTING AND THINKING.

Steve says LAURA, LET ME GO TO
YOU WITH THIS, AND THE GROUP
THAT WAS INVOLVED IN THIS HAS A
WEBSITE CALLED
ANARCHISTNEWS.ORG.
A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO THEY PUT
THIS UP, THIS EXPLANATION.
I'LL GET YOU TO COMMENT ON THIS:

A slate appears on screen with a caption that reads "Vandalism on Locke Street. Gentrification, as an example: when rents go up, it means they make more money (rather than lose their home); when prices go up and rich people move in, it means a chance to sell luxury goods (white we work for minimum wage); when more police and surveillance come in, it secures your investment (while we get harassed and pushed out). They are getting rich because our lives are getting worse. Anarchistnews.org (March 5th, 2018)."

Steve says NOW, THAT'S THEIR
VIEW ON THIS THING.
HOW MUCH FOLLOWING DO YOU THINK
THAT VIEW HAS IN HAMILTON?

The caption changes to "Hamilton’s urban renaissance. The income gap."

The caption changes to "Laura Cattari. @LauraCattari."

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda podcasts" TVO.org/theagenda."

Laura says I'D LIKE TO
SEPARATE IT OUT.
I MEAN, IT'S ONE THING FOR A
VIOLENT RESPONSE.
BUT I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WOULD NOT
DISAGREE WITH WHAT WAS STATED.

Steve says BUT ARE NOT PREPARED
TO TRASH WINDOWS OVER IT.

Laura says THEY'RE NOT THROWING BRICKS
AND STONES.
BUT IT IS HAPPENING.
THE WEALTH IS NOT BEING
DISTRIBUTED EVENLY, EVEN
REMOTELY EQUITABLE AT THE
MOMENT.
AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.
WE GET, I THINK, A PENDULUM
SWING, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE FREE
MARKET GOING AHEAD, WE HAVE
PEOPLE MAKING TONS OF MONEY, AND
IT'S ALL RELATIVE.
I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE.
THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT THEIR
WAGES HAVE INCREASED AND THEY'RE
NOW OVER 100K THAT STILL SAY,
YOU KNOW, LIFE IS HARD FOR ME.
I DON'T MAKE TONS OF MONEY.
NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LOW
INCOME MEASURE IS 22,000 AFTER
TAXES FOR A SINGLE PERSON.
SO YOU'RE MAKING FIVE TIMES THE
AMOUNT SOMEONE ELSE IS, AND THEY
LIVE IN THE SAME COMMUNITY AS
YOU AND CAN'T AFFORD WHAT YOU
TAKE FOR GRANTED.
AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT
BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS VIOLENCE
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE
CONVERSATION MOVING FORWARD AND
TALK ABOUT POLICIES TO ALLEVIATE
HOUSING CRISES, TO ALLEVIATE
FOOD DESERTS.
WE'RE STILL TALKING FOOD DESERTS
IN HAMILTON.

Matthew says THERE'S A
SLIDE THAT YOU PUT UP EARLIER
THAT TALKED ABOUT THE GROWING
INCOME INEQUALITY.
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS COUPLE
THAT WITH THE RISE IN THE COST
OF LIVING, AND SO WHAT WE
HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IS THE REAL
ESTATE BOOM THAT WAS OUR
COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE HAS NOW
BECOME VERY MUCH THIS TOOL THAT
IS CAUSING THESE FAMILIES AND
PEOPLE TO BE DISPLACED.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT PARTICULARLY
AT THE LOWEST SPECTRUM ON THE
CONTINUUM, FOLKS WHO ARE ON
FIXED INCOME, ODSP, ONTARIO
WORKS, AND EVEN WITH THE NEW
GUARANTEED INCOME, IT'S STILL
BELOW THE LOW INCOME CUTOFF.
SO AS THE MARKET... AND THIS IS
WHERE I THINK WE CAN'T HAVE A
CONVERSATION ABOUT
GENTRIFICATION WITHOUT TALKING
ABOUT HOUSING... AS WE ALLOW
THIS MARKET TO DETERMINE WHAT IS
AFFORDABLE AND WHAT IS NOT
AFFORDABLE, WE ARE LEAVING SO
MANY PEOPLE BEHIND.
AND IT'S ONLY BEEN WITHIN THE
LAST YEAR OR TWO WE'VE HAD A
CONVERSATION AROUND SUPPRESSED
WAGES.
THE IDEA OF RAISING MINIMUM
WAGE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY IF PEOPLE
DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING
TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, IF THEY DON'T
KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE
TO FEED THEIR KIDS, HOW CAN THEY
HAVE A CIVILIZED CONVERSATION
AROUND POLICY AND WHY, AS
CANADIANS, ARE WE ALWAYS
DEFAULTING THAT THIS "LIBERALIZED."
NOTION OF COMMODIFYING OUR VERY
SURVIVAL AND EXISTENCE IS THE
DEFAULT ECONOMY OF A DEMOCRACY.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.
SO AS WAS POINTED OUT, I THINK
VERY FEW PEOPLE WOULD DISAGREE
WITH WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. WHAT
THEY DID, AS I SAID, WAS
SELF-INDULGENT AND IT UNLEASHED
AN AMOUNT OF FEAR AND
REACTIONARY VIOLENCE THAT AFTER
THOSE PEOPLE LEFT, I THINK THE
BIGGEST IRONY, MOST OF THE
ANARCHISTS I KNOW DID MOVE FROM
TORONTO, DO HAVE POSTSECONDARY
DEGREES, DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO
UNDERSTAND CRITICAL ANALYSIS ON
ECONOMIES.
THE WORKING CLASS POOR THAT I
KNOW IN MY NEIGHBOURHOOD,
THEY'RE WORKING TWO OR THREE
JOBS, THEY'RE STRUGGLING TO GET
BY AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE
ABILITY TO TAKE ON ISSUES LIKE
THESE GUYS ARE.

Krysta says I WANT TO
TOUCH ON WHAT COUNCILLOR GREEN
SAID THAT MOST PEOPLE WOULD NOT
DISAGREE WITH WHAT THEY'RE
SAYING.
I THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL IN
THAT AREA.
BECAUSE I'VE READ QUITE A BIT.
I'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS GROUP
FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.
ANY BLOG OR POST THAT THEY HAVE
PUT OUT, I MOST DEFINITELY HAVE
READ.
AND IN IT GOES ON EVEN FURTHER
WHERE THEY START TALKING ABOUT
BUSINESS OWNERS AND THEY START
MAKING THESE ASSUMPTIONS AS TO
THE TYPE OF WEALTH THAT BUSINESS
OWNERS HAVE AND HOW THEY ARE
USING INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR
LABOUR FORCE IN ORDER TO BECOME
THESE, YOU KNOW, GLORIFIED
WEALTHY BUSINESS OWNERS, WHICH
IS NOT THE CASE BECAUSE HAMILTON
IS MADE UP OF SMALL BUSINESS
ENTERPRISES.
SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN
WE SPEAK ABOUT THIS, WE'RE NOT
SO MUCH SAYING, WE AGREE WITH
THEM, IT'S MORE WE UNDERSTAND
THAT THEY AGREE WITH THE ISSUES,
THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS
THIS UNDERLYING ISSUE THAT AS A
COMMUNITY WE RECOGNIZE.

Matthew says THERE IS A
LOT OF CONFUSION AROUND THAT, I
NEED TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE SOME
FOLKS WERE SAYING I WAS TOO
SYMPATHETIC TO THE CAUSE WHEN I
WAS SYMPATHETIC TO THE OUTCOME.
I'M A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER.
THAT'S HOW I GOT MY START.
I HAD MY WINDOWS SMASHED.
WHAT I AGREED WITH IS THE
STATEMENT YOU PRESENTED.
I DON'T AGREE WITH THE VIOLENT
OVERTHROW... YOU KNOW, CHAOS,
COMPLETE AND UTTER CHAOS, AND I
SAY THAT BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IN
RESPONSE IS WHEN THESE PEOPLE
LEAVE AND GO BACK TO MONTREAL
AND TORONTO, WHEREVER THEY GO,
THEY LEAVE THAT VIOLENCE IN OUR
COMMUNITIES.
THEY TAKE OFF THEIR MASKS AND AS
WAS STATED IN THE REPORTS, THEY
WERE "UNABLE TO BE FOUND."
BUT I NEED TO ALSO STATE THIS,
THAT JUST LAST WEEK THERE WAS A
REPORT OF A HOMELESS PERSON WHO
HAD BEEN TICKETED 25,000 DOLLARS IN
LOITERING AND DIFFERENT... SO WE
HAVE CRIMINALIZED POVERTY.
POOR PEOPLE ARE OVERPOLICED AND
UNDERSERVED.
AND THAT STATEMENT REMAINS TRUE.
BUT BY NO MEANS, YOU KNOW, IS
THERE ANY SPACE FOR US TO ENGAGE
IN SYMPATHIZING WITH THE
DESTRUCTION.
BUT, IT ALSO NEEDS TO BE NOTED
THAT ON THAT VERY WEEKEND, WE
HAD TWO WOMEN RANDOMLY ATTACKED
AND STABBED IN THE HEAD AND A
THIRD PERSON SHOT IN THE THROAT,
AND NOBODY SPOKE ABOUT THAT
VIOLENCE.
THE INDIVIDUAL VIOLENCE THAT
HAPPENS TO LOW INCOME PEOPLE
LIVING IN POVERTY EVERY SINGLE
WEEKEND.
THERE WAS NO RALLIES AROUND
THESE FAMILIES.

Steve says SO WHY DID THIS ONE
GET SO MUCH ATTENTION?

Matthew says BECAUSE OF WHERE IT WAS.

Krysta says I THINK THE STYLE IN WHICH
THEY DID IT.
THEY HAD SO MUCH DAMAGE IN SUCH
A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME AND THE
FACT THAT THIS WAS MOB STYLE IN
ITS APPLICATION.
SO OF COURSE IT'S GOING TO DRAW
A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF
ATTENTION.

Laura says I DON'T
KNOW.
SOMEONE RANDOMLY GOING AROUND
STABBING WOMEN IN THE HEAD I
THINK IS PRETTY HEADLINE-MAKING,
AND YET THERE WEREN'T ANY
RALLIES, ANY VIGILS, ANYTHING
FOR THAT NEIGHBOURHOOD WHERE
WOMEN STILL HAVE TO WALK ALONE.

Krysta says RIGHT.

Laura says AND THE
PERSON HADN'T BEEN APPREHENDED.
SO, YES, THERE WAS FEAR IN BOTH
INSTANCES, BUT THE OVERWHELMING
SUPPORT WAS FOR LOCKE STREET.
AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT
THE ANARCHIST RESPONSE TO THAT,
BUT I DO CARE ABOUT PEOPLE IN
POVERTY IN THE CITY THAT WATCHED
IT HAPPEN AND SAID, YOU KNOW,
I'M GLAD YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT
THEM, BUT HOW ABOUT ME?
AND I THINK IT REINFORCED THAT.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP ON
SOMETHING MATTHEW SAID A FEW
MINUTES AGO WHICH WAS THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS THE SORT
OF CENTRAL PART OF A POTENTIAL
SOLUTION TO SO MUCH OF THIS.
AND TO THAT END, RICHARD HARRIS,
LET ME GET YOU TO COMMENT ON
THESE NUMBERS HERE.

A slate appears with a caption that reads "Ontario’s Commitment to affordable housing. 3 million dollars to establish a Cooperative Housing Development Fund. 547 million dollars over five years for repairs and retrofits to support energy efficiency. Investment of 1 billion dollars each year. 2018 Ontario Budget."

Steve says THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT,
OBVIOUSLY IN ITS BUDGET LAST
WEEK, HAD SOMETHING TO SAY
ABOUT... WELL, IT HAS IN THE
PAST AND THEN AGAIN IN THE
BUDGET IT HAD THINGS TO SAY
ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SUCH
AS 3 MILLION BUCKS TO ESTABLISH
A COOPERATIVE HOUSING
DEVELOPMENT FUND, 500 MILLION
OVER FIVE YEARS FOR REPAIRS AND
RETRO FITS TO SUPPORT ENERGY
EFFICIENCY, INVESTMENT OF A
BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
HAMILTON HAS ITS OWN TEN-YEAR
POVERTY PLAN AS WELL,

A caption reads "Hamilton’s 10-year poverty plan. 20 million dollars new affordable rental housing; 20 million dollars in repairing units left vacant; 10 million dollars in indigenous-led investment. Poverty Reduction investment Fund Implementation Plan (April 2017)."

Steve says WHICH
TALKS ABOUT 20 MILLION IN NEW
AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING,
20 MILLION TO FIX UNITS LEFT
VACANT DUE TO DISREPAIR,
10 MILLION BUCKS FOR
INDIGENOUS-LED INVESTMENT.
AS A PACKAGE OF IDEAS, RICHARD
HARRIS, HOW WOULD YOU
CHARACTERIZE THESE IN TERMS OF
WHAT THEY CAN DO TO HELP SOLVE
THE ISSUES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
HERE TONIGHT?

Richard says IT'S REALLY
DIFFICULT TO JUDGE BECAUSE A LOT
OF IT IS PROSPECTIVE.
CERTAINLY WHAT THE PROVINCE HAS
SAID IS WHAT THEY PROMISE TO DO,
AND HOW THAT TRANSLATES, WHETHER
THAT DOES TRANSLATE, OF COURSE,
DEPENDS ON AN ELECTION AND MORE
THAN THAT.
THERE'S THE FEDERAL CONTEXT AS
WELL.
THE NATIONAL HOUSING STRATEGY
AND THE FUNDS THAT ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE COMING FROM THAT
EVENTUALLY, WHICH ALL DEPENDS ON
NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT AND THE... YOU KNOW,
THE PROVINCES AND SO ON AND SO
FORTH.
YES, HAMILTON CERTAINLY HAS
TRIED TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE
AS WELL, THE CITY OF HAMILTON,
I'M TALKING ABOUT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THESE NUMBERS
SOUND GOOD, BUT LIKE ANY BIG
NUMBER, BY THE TIME YOU
TRANSLATE IT DOWN TO THE GROUND
AND THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT
ACTUALLY ARE EITHER RENOVATED OR
CREATED, THE IMPACT IS
COMPARATIVELY MODEST.
I DON'T MEAN TO SAY I DISAGREE
WITH THE INITIATIVES, I'M JUST
SAYING THAT... IT'S MORE THAN A
DROP IN THE BUCKET BUT IT'S NOT
FILLING THE BUCKET.

Steve says MATTHEW, WHAT'S YOUR
VIEW?

Matthew says I WOULD CALL
IT A DROP IN THE BUCKET THAT HAS
HOLES.
WHEN YOU TAKE BIG NUMBERS LIKE
THAT AND PUT IT DOWN TO WHAT IT
IS ANNUALLY, THE GREATEST SHAME
WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY, NOBODY
LIVING IN CANADA, NOBODY SHOULD
BE LIVING IN TENTS.
EVERY CANADIAN SHOULD HAVE
DIGNIFIED, SAFE AND AFFORDABLE
HOUSING AS A HUMAN RIGHT.
THE FACT THAT OUR FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IN THEIR PAST BUDGET
HAS NOT PROVIDED DIRECT FUNDING
TO THE BACKLOG OF SOCIAL HOUSING
AND INFRASTRUCTURE IN OUR CITIES
IS A SHAME.
THE FACT THEY PUT BILLIONS INTO
A PRIVATE INFRASTRUCTURE BANK
SPEAKS TO THE LIBERALISM OF THIS
MARKET.
THE TRICKLE-DOWN HAS ENDED.
THERE IS NO TRICKLE-DOWN.
AND WHAT WE REALIZE IS THAT IN
THIS CONVERSATION, IT IS A
VALUES CONVERSATION ABOUT
ECONOMY, AND IT IS ABOUT WHETHER
WE VIEW HOUSING AS A HOME OR AS
A REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT.
AND IF WE LEAVE IT UP TO MARKETS
AND PRIVATE DEVELOPERS AND
DOWNLOAD IT TO MUNICIPALITIES
WHERE REALLY THE BULK OF THE
WORK IS COMING FROM
MUNICIPALITIES, THERE IS NO WAY
WE'RE EVER GOING TO BEGIN TO
ADDRESS THE 6,000 PEOPLE ON THE
SOCIAL HOUSING WAIT LIST.

Steve says GO AHEAD, LAURA.

Laura says I WANT TO
ADD TO THAT.
BEING ON THE INCOME SECURITY
SUPPORT WORKING GROUP... THE
FEDS HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT IN
THEIR HOUSING STRATEGY.
BUT THE REALITY IS, THERE ARE NO
UNITS.
WE NEEDED TO START PUTTING
SHOVELS IN THE GROUND FIVE YEARS
AGO.

Matthew says ABSOLUTELY.

Laura says AND NOT ONLY
THAT, I MEAN, WE LOOK JUST AT
HAMILTON.
FOOD BANKS HAVE REPORTED 49 percent OF
PEOPLE SAY THEY SPEND I THINK IT
WAS MORE THAN HALF OF THEIR
RENT... OR HALF OF THEIR INCOME
ON RENT.
THIS YEAR IT'S 80 percent OF FOOD BANK
USERS.
SO WE ARE NOT KEEPING UP.
IT'S ALMOST TOO LITTLE TOO LATE,
BUT I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT TO
BE PESSIMISTIC.

Steve says I HEAR YOU.

Laura says BECAUSE WE
WANT MORE DOLLARS.

Steve says WE HAVE 30 SECONDS
LEFT.
LET ME GIVE IT TO YOU, KRYSTA.
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO THINK
HAMILTON IS TRENDING TOWARDS
BEING THE NEXT BROOKLYN, A PLACE
THAT WAS PRETTY HARD SCRABBLE
AND IS NOW, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, THE
COOL PLACE TO GO.
IS THAT A TREND YOU'D LIKE TO
SEE CONTINUE?

The caption changes to "Hamilton’s urban renaissance. Hope for the hammer."

Krysta says IT DEPENDS
HOW THAT TREND UNFOLDS.
I MEAN, I'M A HUGE PROPONENT OF
AN INCLUSIVE TYPE OF APPROACH TO
OUR COMMUNITY, DESPITE THE FACT
THAT I'M A REALTOR AND I'M SURE
I'M GOING TO HEAR IT FROM SOME
OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THIS.
I'M NOT PRO BIG DEVELOPMENT.
I'M A FAN OF EUROPEAN CITIES.
I'M A FAN OF THE LOWER
SKYSCRAPERS, THE ARGUMENT BEING
MAINTAINING A HEIGHT LOWER THAN
THE ESCARPMENT AND MAINTAINING
COMMUNITIES AND MAINTAINING
AMENITIES AND MAINTAINING THE
LOWER AND AFFORDABLE RENTS.
THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
SO IF IT IS A CULTURE, IF IT IS
A CULTURE THAT IS PARALLEL TO
BROOKLYN, I'D LIKE IT TO AT
LEAST MAINTAIN THAT BASE OF A
COMMUNITY BASE WHERE WE ARE...
WHERE CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS
CONTINUE TO ENSUE AND FROM IT WE
HAVE PRODUCTIVE RESOLUTION AND
OUTCOMES.

Steve says GREAT. I WANT TO THANK
YOU ALL FOR MAKING THE TRIP DOWN
THE 401 OR QEW DEPENDING ON HOW
YOU GOT HERE TODAY.
RICHARD HARRIS, WHO ACTUALLY
STAYED IN THE STEEL CITY,
PROFESSOR OF SCHOOL OF GEOGRAPHY
AND EARTH SCIENCES AT McMASTER
UNIVERSITY. RICHARD, THANKS FOR
BEING ON THE PROGRAM TONIGHT.
LAURA CATTARI FROM THE HAMILTON
ROUND TABLE FOR POVERTY
REDUCTION, COUNCILLOR MATTHEW
GREEN FROM THE CITY OF HAMILTON,
KRYSTA BOYER, TRY HAMILTON, THAT
IS THE NAME OF HER GROUP.
THANKS SO MUCH, EVERYBODY.
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT.

They all say THANK YOU.

The caption changes to "Hamilton’s urban renaissance. Producer: Jane Burke. @JBurkeTweets."

Watch: Hamilton's Urban Renaissance