Transcript: World Water Woes | Mar 22, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "A world of water woes. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says IT'S NOT AN
EXAGGERATION TO SAY THAT WATER
IS ESSENTIAL FOR ALL LIFE ON
THIS PLANET.
WE'RE GOING TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT
THAT MEANS HERE IN ONTARIO.
SO LET'S WELCOME:
LINDA DEBASSIGE, THE FORMER AND
SOON TO BE REINSTATED, CHIEF OF
THE M'CHIGEENG FIRST NATION, NOW
AN ADVISOR TO THE GRAND COUNCIL
CHIEF OF THE ANISHINABEK NATION...

Linda is in her late thirties, with long wavy dark hair. She's wearing a black jacket.

Steve continues GAIL KRANTZBERG, PROFESSOR AND
DIRECTOR OF THE ENGINEERING AND
PUBLIC POLICY PROGRAM AT
McMASTER UNIVERSITY IN HAMILTON...

Gail is in her fifties, with short brown hair. She's wearing a dark gray blazer over a blue shirt.

Steve continues FRANK SEGLENIEKS, WATER
RESOURCES ENGINEER AT
ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE CANADA...

Frank is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a blue shirt.

Steve continues AND LARRY SWATUK, AUTHOR OF "A
GLASS HALF-FULL: WATER IN
SOUTHERN AFRICA," AND PROFESSOR
AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO'S
WATER INSTITUTE.

Larry is in his forties, bald, with a trimmed goatee. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and black tie.

Steve continues IT'S A DELIGHT TO WELCOME THE
TWO WOMEN BACK TO OUR PROGRAM,
AND THE TWO GENTLEMEN FOR THE
FIRST TIME EVER TO OUR PROGRAM.
NICE TO HAVE EVERYBODY HERE.
WE THOUGHT, JUST TO SET THE
TABLE FOR THE DISCUSSION TO
COME, WE WOULD ASK OUR PRODUCER,
PATRICIA, TO DO A LITTLE
BACKGROUND PACK FOR US.
SO WATCH THIS AND TWO MINUTES
LATER WE'LL COME BACK AND CHAT.
SHELDON, GO.

A clip plays on screen. In the clip, a person walks on a parched stretch of dirt.

A female voice says
IMAGINE LIVING IN A PLACE
WITHOUT WATER.
THAT SCENARIO HAS BEEN LOOMING
OVER THE COASTAL CITY OF CAPE
TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA, THE CITY OF
4 MILLION WENT FROM HAVING ONE
OF ITS WETTEST YEARS IN 2014 TO
A THREE-YEAR DROUGHT THAT'S LEFT
WATER RESERVOIRS DANGEROUSLY LOW.

Fast clips show a coastal city, a dam, and satellite images of a shrinking water reservoir.

The voice continues THE LARGEST! THE POPULATION HAS
DROPPED TO JUST OVER 10 percent
CAPACITY, FORCING RESIDENTS TO
LINE UP FOR WATER.
SEVERE DROUGHTS IN RECENT YEARS
HAVE ALSO RAVAGED OTHER COASTAL
REGIONS, SUCH AS SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA AND PARTS OF
AUSTRALIA.

Pictures flash by comparing places that used to be filled with water and are now dry.

The voice continues EXPERTS PREDICT IT'S ONLY GOING
TO GET WORSE.

The woman speaking appears. She's in her early thirties, with long blond hair.
A caption reads "Patricia Kozicka. Agenda Producer."

Patricia says IN 2014, A TEAM FROM McGILL
JOINED INTERNATIONAL RESEARCHERS
IN EXAMINING THE WATER SITUATION
IN THE WORLD'S 500 LARGEST
CITIES.
THEY FOUND A QUARTER OF THEM TO
BE WATER-STRESSED.
THE TOP FIVE CITIES CONSIDERED
MOST AT RISK FOR RUNNING OUT OF
WATER WERE TOKYO, DELHI, MEXICO
CITY, SHANGHAI, AND BEIJING.
TORONTO AND MONTREAL THE ONLY
TWO CANADIAN CITIES STUDIED WERE
NOT CONSIDERED TO BE AT RISK AT
THE TIME.
CANADA IS HOME TO ONE-FIFTH OF
THE WORLD'S FRESH WATER, BUT
THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE IMMUNE
TO WATER ISSUES.
FOR DECADES MANY INDIGENOUS
COMMUNITIES HAVE STRUGGLED WITH
A COMPLETE LACK OF CLEAN WATER.

A picture shows a sign that reads "Warning. The safety of this water supply can not be guaranteed. Boil water before use."

Patricia says AS OF MARCH 19TH, THERE ARE 81
LONG-TERM WATER ADVISORIES IN
EFFECT, THE MAJORITY OF THEM IN
ONTARIO.
MEANWHILE, ACROSS THE REST OF
THE COUNTRY, WATER USE SOARS.
OUR WATER CONSUMPTION IS SECOND
ONLY TO THE U.S. AND MORE THAN
DOUBLE THE USAGE IN EUROPE.
CANADIANS USE AN AVERAGE OF 329
LITRES OF WATER PER PERSON PER
DAY.
MORE THAN A THIRD OF THAT WATER
GOES RIGHT DOWN OUR SHOWER
DRAIN.
FOR PERSPECTIVE, BACK IN CAPE
TOWN, RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN URGED
TO LIMIT THEIR WATER USAGE TO
JUST 50 LITRES A DAY.
THAT'S THE EQUIVALENT FOR THEM
OF A SINGLE TOILET FLUSH, A
MINUTE SHOWER, A LOAD OF
LAUNDRY, AND 8 LITRES TO BE
DIVVIED UP BETWEEN HAND WASHING,
COOKING, AND CLEANING.
IT'S A FAR CRY FROM CANADIANS'
WATER HABITS BUT FAR MORE IN
LINE WITH HOW SOME EXPERTS
BELIEVE WE SHOULD ALL BE
TREATING WATER, A RESOURCE THEY
REMIND US WE SHOULD ALL DO OUR
PART TO MAINTAIN.
BECAUSE IT IS, AFTER ALL, FINITE.

The caption changes to "Agenda Producer, Patricia Kozicka. Editor, David Erwin."

The clip ends.

Steve says PATRICIA, THANK YOU
FOR THAT.
WELL, SOME PRETTY STARK THINGS
TO FOLLOW UP ON THERE.
GAIL, LET'S GET STARTED HERE.
HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE BE ABOUT
US LITERALLY RUNNING OUT OF
WATER?

Gail says IN THE GREAT LAKES REGION, STEVE?

Steve says YEAH.

The caption changes to "Gail Krantzberg. McMaster University."
Then, it changes again to "Running dry."

Gail says FORTUNATELY I DON'T THINK
THAT'S A HUGE CONCERN FOR US IF
WE'RE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW WE
MAINTAIN THE WATER QUANTITY IN
THE BASIN.
WE HAVE TREATIES, WE HAVE LAWS,
WE HAVE REGULATIONS THAT
PROHIBIT DIVERSIONS OF WATER
AWAY FROM THE GREAT LAKES,
UNLESS THEY'RE PUT BACK INTO THE
GREAT LAKES.
SO THE NOTION OF US SENDING ALL
OF OUR WATER DOWN TO THE
SOUTHWEST UNITED STATES TO
FULFIL THEIR NEEDS AND SOMEHOW
THEY CAN PUMP IT ALL BACK TO US,
IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM PRACTICAL
AND PLAUSIBLE.
AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY
IS THAT THE GOVERNORS, THE
PREMIERS, THERE'S A VERY STRONG
PASSIONATE COMMITMENT TO
MAINTAINING THE WATERS OF THE
GREAT LAKES IN THE GREAT LAKES
BECAUSE IT IS THE ECONOMIC
ENGINE OF THE REGION.
IT'S THE ECONOMIC ENGINE BECAUSE
OF ITS ABUNDANCE AND
DISTRIBUTION OF THAT WATER
OUTSIDE OF THE BASIN DESTROYS
THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK THE CHANGING
CLIMATE THAT WE'LL SEE DROUGHTS
IN THE GREAT LAKES REGION FROM A
WATER QUANTITY POINT OF VIEW,
BUT IT'S REALLY THE POLITICAL
PRESSURES ON TAKING WATER AWAY
FROM THE GREAT LAKES, WHICH I
THINK WE'VE GOT GREAT POLITICAL
LEADERSHIP THAT WOULD STOP THAT
FROM HAPPENING.

Steve says IF WE GO, HOWEVER,
FROM THE GREAT LAKES TO THE PART
OF THE WORLD THAT YOU HAVE SPENT
TIME EXPLORING, DIFFERENT STORY?

The caption changes to "Larry Swatuk. Author, 'A glass half full.'"

Larry says SAME STORY, DIFFERENT
SETTING, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.
SO WHEN YOU ASKED THE QUESTION
ABOUT POSSIBILITIES OF RUNNING
OUT OF WATER, I THINK YOU HAVE
TO ASK WHAT IS THE WATER FOR.
SO, YOU KNOW, CITIES FACE
PARTICULAR KINDS OF STRUGGLES,
AND TORONTO AND CAPE TOWN HAVE
SHARED ISSUES.
WE MAY WELL TALK A BIT MORE
ABOUT TORONTO LATER ON.
CAPE TOWN'S BIG PROBLEMS, OF
COURSE, ARE RELATED TO THE FACT
THAT THEY HAVE A DRY SUMMER, AND
SO WHEN THEY NEED WATER MOST,
THAT WATER IS NOT AVAILABLE.
IT RAINS ONLY FOR A FEW MONTHS
IN THE WINTERTIME.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW,
WE USE MOST OF OUR WATER IN
AGRICULTURE, AND BIG AG TAKES A
LOT OF WATER AWAY FROM OTHER
POSSIBLE USES.
SO, YOU KNOW, SO DEPENDING ON
WHAT WE DECIDE TO GROW OUTSIDE
OF THE CAPE TOWN CITY, YOU KNOW,
I KNOW YOU LIKE 8 dollar BOTTLE OF
WINE FROM SOUTH AFRICA, AS DO I.
MAYBE WE DRANK SOME CAPE TOWN
AND SOUTHERN AFRICAN WATER LAST
NIGHT WITH DINNER.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE WATER
GOES AND FLOWS IS KIND OF A
COMPLICATED QUESTION, AND I
THINK WE OVERWHELMINGLY FOCUS ON
DRINKING WATER FOR CITIES AT OUR
PERIL.
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT AS
AN INTEGRATED SYSTEM.

Steve says ONE CORRECTION.
THIS KID, NIAGARA PENINSULA, AND
PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY WINE.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS
BECAUSE YOU'RE IN A FASCINATING
PREDICAMENT.
YOUR RESERVE IS RIGHT ON LAKE
HURON WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY
ABUNDANT IN TERMS OF WATER.
BUT HAVE YOU A BOIL WATER
ADVISORY ON YOUR RESERVE?

Linda says NOT IN OUR
COMMUNITY, LUCKILY.

Steve says EXCEPT MOST OF THE
ONES IN CANADA ARE IN THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

Linda says YES, DEFINITELY.

A map of Ontario pops up highlighting over a dozen locations with red dots.

Steve says ISN'T THAT A CONUNDRUM?

The caption changes to "Linda Debassige. Anishinabek Nation Grand Council Chief Senior Adviser."

Linda says IT IS.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING
TO BE ON THE RISE.
AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE THE
FEDERAL POLICY THAT GOVERNS
FIRST NATION WATER TREATMENT
PLANS DOES NOT ASSIST FIRST
NATIONS WITH HAVING SUSTAINABLE
INFRASTRUCTURE TO PROVIDE CLEAN,
SAFE DRINKING WATER TO
COMMUNITIES.
AS WELL, WATER SOURCES FOR
DIFFERENT FIRST NATIONS
COMMUNITIES ARE CONTAMINATED OR
ON THE VERGE OF BECOMING
CONTAMINATED WITH, YOU KNOW,
INCREASED PHARMACEUTICALS AND
PRODUCTS THAT CANNOT BE CLEANED
OUT OF WASTEWATER DISCHARGE.
GEORGIAN ISLAND, FOR INSTANCE,
IS A FIRST NATION IN LAKE
SIMCOE.

Steve says AN HOUR FROM HERE.

Linda says AN HOUR FROM HERE.
AND THEY'RE ON THE VERGE OF
HAVING 40 MILLION LITRES OF
WASTEWATER DUMPED INTO THEIR
BACK YARD, AND THAT'S DISCHARGE
FROM THE UPPER YORK AREA,
NEWMARKET, AURORA, BECAUSE THE
POPULATIONS OF THOSE COMMUNITIES
ARE INCREASING.

Steve says SO WHEN YOU'RE ASKED
THE QUESTION OF ARE WE RUNNING
OUT OF WATER, APROPOS TO LARRY'S
QUESTION.

Linda says WE MAY BE THERE.
DEFINITELY.
THERE ARE SOME FIRST NATIONS
COMMUNITIES WHOSE WELLS HAVE
DRIED UP IN THEIR AQUIFERS.
AND SOME OF THE RICHEST, AND
INDUSTRY IS UTILIZING THAT CLEAN
WATER FROM AQUIFERS TO WASH
AGGREGATE.

The caption changes to "The wait for clean water."

Steve says WE HEARD PATRICIA
SAY THIS IN THE BACKGROUND
PIECE.
WE SEEM TO BE HOGS WHEN IT COMES
TO THE USE OF WATER IN CANADA
AND THE UNITED STATES COMPARED
TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.
HOW COME?

The caption changes to "Frank Seglenieks. Environment and Climate Change Canada."

Frank says I THINK A LOT OF IT IS JUST
BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH AN
ABUNDANCE, AS YOU SAID.
WE HAVE THIS GREAT RESOURCE OF
FRESH WATER RIGHT BESIDE IT.
PART OF IT WE JUST DON'T THINK
OF IT IN THE TERMS WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE A WATER SCARCITY.
WE THINK IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE
THERE.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PRICING
OF WATER AND HOW INCENTIVES WE
HAVE NOT TO USE AS MUCH OF IT.
WE HAVE TO THINK, ALTHOUGH WE
HAVE THIS GREAT RESOURCE OF
WATER VERY CLOSE TO US, IT
DOESN'T GIVE US THE LICENCE TO
USE MORE, IN THAT EACH LITRE OF
WATER THAT WE TAKE OUT OF THE
GREAT LAKES AND ACTUALLY TREAT
FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION COSTS A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESOURCES AND
MONEY AND OF COURSE ONCE YOU
HAVE TO TREAT IT, IT ALSO COSTS
WATER RESOURCES AND MONEY.
SO IT'S ALWAYS A BALANCE BETWEEN
HOW MUCH... YOU HAVE ALL THIS
WATER BUT YOU WANTS TO BE ABLE
TO CONSERVE IT EVEN THOUGH YOU
HAVE THIS ABUNDANCE.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says EXCEPT THAT HOW DO
YOU EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT ONE OF
THE BIG CITIES IN THIS WORLD,
CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA,
SUDDENLY FINDS ITSELF FROM TIME
TO TIME WITHOUT WATER.

Frank says WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE
RESERVOIR, JUST THE AMOUNT OF
WATER IN THAT PIECE, IT'S DOWN
TO 15, 20 PERCENT OF ITS
RESERVOIR, THAT'S A GREAT
DIMINISHING OF ITS RESERVOIR.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE GREAT LAKES,
EVEN WHEN WE HAD LOW WATER
LEVELS, 2013, I SAW ON
"THE AGENDA" WHAT WAS HAPPENING
WITH THE GREAT LAKES WATER
LEVELS, WE'RE TALKING MAYBE A
PERCENT OF THE ACTUAL WATER IN
THE RESERVOIR.
WE HAVE THIS LARGE CAPACITY.
WHEREAS CAPE TOWN RELIES ON THIS
ONE RESERVOIR OR A FEW
RESERVOIRS, BUT IT'S ONE
PRINCIPAL ONE, AND A LOT OF IT
NEEDS TO RECHARGE EVERY YEAR.
YOU GET TWO OR THREE YEARS YOU
DON'T HAVE THAT RECHARGE.
YOU'RE STILL USING THE SAME
AMOUNT BECAUSE YOU'RE ADDING TO
YOUR CITY AND YOU NEED THAT MUCH
WATER.
THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
PROBLEMS.

Steve says YOU KNOW WHAT PEOPLE
REFER TO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT
DAY ZERO?

The caption changes to "Larry Swatuk. University of Waterloo."

Larry says YES.
DAY ZERO IS... WELL, IT WAS
QUITE A MOTIVATING ISSUE AROUND
TRYING TO GET CITIZENS OF
DIFFERENT ECONOMIC, SOCIAL
STRIPES TO PULL TOGETHER TO MAKE
SURE THAT THEY DIDN'T RUN OUT OF
WATER, SO DAY ZERO WAS THE
HYPOTHESIZED DAYS WHEN THE TAPS
WOULD BE SHUT OFF IN THE CITY OF
CAPE TOWN.
WHEN IT WAS FIRST ANNOUNCED IN
JANUARY... I THINK IT WAS IN
JANUARY, IT WAS GOING TO BE
APRIL 22nd, THEN IT WAS PUSHED
BACK TO JUNE, AND THEN IT'S BEEN
PUSHED BACK TO AUGUST, AND NOW
IT'S BEEN ACTUALLY TAKEN OFF OF
THE BOOKS BECAUSE THE CITY FEELS
THAT IT'S BAD FOR BUSINESS.
AND I THINK...

Steve says SORRY, THEY DON'T
WANT TO BRING ATTENTION TO THE
FACT THAT THEY HAVE A WATER
SHORTAGE?

Larry says YOU KNOW, I FIND THIS TO BE ACTUALLY SHOCKING BUT ALSO
INDICATIVE OF HOW WE EVERYWHERE
IN MODERNIZED WESTERN SOCIETIES,
YOU KNOW, ON THE ONE SIDE WE
PREACH CONSERVATION; ON THE
OTHER SIDE, WE PURSUE BUSINESS
AS USUAL, WHICH IS A WATER HOG
BY DEFINITION.
AND SO IN THE CONTEXT OF DAY
ZERO, YES, THERE HAS BEEN SOME
RAIN.
YES, PEOPLE HAVE COME TOGETHER
AND, WITH EFFECTIVE DEMAND
MANAGEMENT ACTIVITIES AND CUT
THEIR CONSUMPTION BY HALF, YES,
THAT'S ALL VERY GOOD.
BUT IT'S STILL A CRISIS.
AND IN THEIR SYSTEM, AS WE WERE
SAYING EARLIER, IT'S A SET OF
INTEGRATED SURFACE DAMS, SIX
DAMS.
I MEAN, THE DOMINANT DAM IS DOWN
TO 10 percent BUT THAT'S A MISGUIDED...
THAT'S A MISNOMER BECAUSE THAT
WATER HAS BEEN PUMPED ELSEWHERE
WHERE THERE'S LESS EVAPORATION.
SO OVERALL IT'S ABOUT 20 percent.
NOW, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD GO
DOWN TO 10 percent.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEND THE WRONG
SIGNALS TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE
SUCCESS OF HAVING ACHIEVED TO
PUSH BACK DAY ZERO.
I THINK DAY ZERO, IF WE'RE GOING
TO TALK ABOUT WATER WARS AT SOME
POINT, DAY ZERO WAS A VERY
SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN THAT GOT
CITIZENS OF ALL DIFFERENT
POLITICAL AND SOCIAL STRIPES TO
MOVE IN THE SAME DIRECTION.
WE CAN'T GET PEOPLE TO MOVE THAT
WAY AND THAT FAST ON CLIMATE, WE
CAN'T GET THEM TO MOVE THAT WAY
AND THAT FAST WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
INTERSTATE WARS.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
AND SO I THINK WE ABANDON DAY
ZEROS AT OUR PERIL, AND I THINK
THERE WERE SOME BENEFITS TO BE
HAD FROM THAT... THE USE OF THAT
TERM.

Steve says WHAT WENT THROUGH
YOUR MIND WHEN YOU STARTED TO
SEE STORIES COMING OUT OF CAPE
TOWN ABOUT RUNNING OUT OF WATER?

The caption changes to "Linda Debassige. Former Chief of M'Chigeeng First Nation."

Linda says I WASN'T
SURPRISED, AND I REALLY WASN'T
AFFECTED.
IN SAYING THAT, IT'S MY
EXPERIENCE WITHIN CANADA AND OUR
FIRST NATIONS, OUR OWN FIRST
NATIONS' WATER CRISIS THAT I
LOOKED AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
SOUTH AFRICA, YOU KNOW, THIS IS
HAPPENING IN OUR OWN BACK YARD.
THIS IS HAPPENING IN OUR FIRST
NATION COMMUNITIES AND SOME FOR
DECADES.
AND SOME OF OUR COMMUNITIES ARE
VERY CLOSE TO, YOU KNOW,
METROPOLITAN CENTRES AND THEY'RE
STILL FACED WITH A CRISIS.
GRASSY NARROWS.
THEIR WATER HAS BEEN
CONTAMINATED WITH MERCURY FOR
GENERATIONS.
THAT'S NOT ON, YOU KNOW, THE
HEADLINE STORY OF "THE
NATIONAL."
AND STILL THERE WAS AWARENESS
BROUGHT TO IT, BUT NOTHING HAS
YET BEEN DONE.

Steve says WELL, THE GOVERNMENT
OF ONTARIO WOULD SAY THEY'VE
SPENT TENS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS NOW ANALYSING WHAT THE
PROBLEM IS IN HOPES OF BEING
ABLE TO CLEAN IT UP.

Linda says AN ANALYSIS STARTED IN THE
'60s.
ANALYSIS STARTED IN THE '60s.
IT'S DELAYED BECAUSE THEY DON'T
HAVE ANY SOLUTIONS OR THEY'RE
NOT PREPARED TO ADEQUATELY
RESOURCE WHAT IS NEEDED TO SOLVE
THAT PROBLEM.

Steve says WELL, APROPOS OF
WHAT YOU SAID, SHELDON, SHALL WE
BRING THIS UP RIGHT NOW, MIDDLE
OF PAGE 3?

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Federal budget promises. Addressing water crisis in First Nations Communities."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
THE BUDGET IN THIS FISCAL YEAR,
2018, PROVIDED FOR MORE THAN
172 MILLION dollars OVER THREE YEARS TO ACCELERATE THE PACE OF
CONSTRUCTION AND RENOVATION OF
AFFECTED WATER SYSTEMS.
IF YOU GO TO LAST YEAR'S BUDGET,
THERE WAS AN ANNOUNCEMENT FOR
4 BILLION dollars OVER 10 YEARS TO
BUILD AND IMPROVE
INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND LET'S GO BACK TO 2016.
A BILLION EIGHT OVER FIVE YEARS
TO IMPROVE DRINKING WATER
MONITORING AND TESTING ON
RESERVE.
CHIEF LINDA, HOW HOPEFUL ARE YOU
WITH WHAT THOSE NUMBERS MIGHT PORTEND?

Linda says YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT APPEAR
TO BE LARGE INVESTMENTS OVER
MANY FIRST NATIONS COMMUNITIES
IN CANADA.

Steve says OVER TEN YEARS IN
SOME CASES.

Linda says OVER TEN YEARS, TO BUILD A
WATER TREATMENT FACILITY COSTS
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
IN THE PREDESIGN STAGE AND THE
CONSTRUCTION STAGE AND THEN INTO
THE OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE
STAGE.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE FAILURES
EXIST TIME AND TIME AGAIN HAS
BEEN THE OPERATIONS AND
MAINTENANCE.
AT TIMES THE DESIGN.
SOME OF OUR FIRST NATIONS WATER
TREATMENT PLANT DESIGNS ARE NOT
DESIGNED TO PROVINCIAL
STANDARDS.
THERE ARE SHORT CUTS TAKEN IN
THE CONSTRUCTION OF WATER
TREATMENT PLANTS, SUCH AS THE
REMOVAL OF NECESSARY MONITORING
EQUIPMENT, SHORT CUTS TAKEN TO
FIT A BUDGET GIVEN BY INDIAN AND
NORTHERN AFFAIRS CANADA.
THEY HAVE ARCHAIC POLICIES THAT
CONTINUE TO PERPETUATE BOIL
WATER ADVISORIES WITHIN OUR
COMMUNITIES.

Steve says GAIL, WHAT'S YOUR
VIEW ON WHAT THAT MONEY CAN DO?

The caption changes to "State of the lakes."

Gail says I AGREE WITH LINDA.
I THINK, WHEN YOU LOOK AT...
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INVESTMENTS
PUT INTO GREAT LAKES, FOR
EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
NUMBER, AND THEN YOU REALIZE
THAT THAT'S DIVIDED OVER FIVE
YEARS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE INITIAL
THOUGHT IS, WELL, GOOD
INVESTMENT.
THEN YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH IT HAS
TO GO TOWARDS.
SO IT JUST PUZZLES ME, IT JUST
FRUSTRATES ME BECAUSE ENGINEERS
CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO TREAT
WATER.
THERE'S NO REASON WHY THERE
SHOULDN'T BE ENGINEERING
SOLUTIONS FOR FIRST NATIONS FOR
DRINKABLE WATER.
THERE'S NO ENGINEERING CONUNDRUM
THERE.
IT'S STRICTLY A POLITICAL PIECE.
CHIEF LINDA WOULD KNOW WAY MORE
ABOUT THAT THAN I.
BUT I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT
WE INVEST IN THE REGION, WHAT
WE'RE INVESTING IN WATER AND
DRINKING WATER AND CLEAN WATER,
IT IS SO MUCH LESS THAN WHAT THE
RESOURCE BRINGS US BACK, SO IT'S
A TRILLION-DOLLAR ECONOMY IN THE
GREAT LAKES REGION, AND OUR
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S PUT IN TENS
OF MILLIONS.
C'MON.
SOMETHING'S ASKEW HERE.
AND I'M NOT TRYING TO TALK
DID... IT'S NOT ABOUT LET'S
INVEST IN TREE HUGGERS AND
PLANTING TREES IS A NICE THING
TO DO.
LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THE WE'RE
ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE RESOURCE
THAT IT'S WORTH.
LAST YEAR PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED
TO KILL THE GREAT LAKES
INITIATIVE WHICH IS 3 MILLION dollars A YEAR, THE GOVERNORS IN CONGRESS
SAID NO WAY.
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT INVESTMENT
IN OUR ECONOMY, AND IT'S ON THE
TABLE AGAIN TO BE SLASHED, AND I
PREDICT AND OUR COLLEAGUES... MY
COLLEAGUES IN CHICAGO AND OTHER
PLACES PREDICT NO WAY THE
GOVERNORS WILL SAY THAT'S AN
IMPORTANT INVESTMENT IN THE
ECONOMY OF THE REGION.
IT'S NOT JUST AN ENVIRONMENTAL
FRIVOLOUS THING.

Linda says TO YOUR
COMMENT ON THE DISTRIBUTION OF
THE INDIAN AFFAIRS FUNDING TO
COMMUNITIES IN CANADA.
ONTARIO IS NOT GETTING ITS FAIR
SHARE.
AS YOU SAW FROM THE CLIP,
ONTARIO HAS THE HIGHEST AMOUNT
OF BOIL WATER ADVISORIES IN OUR
FIRST NATIONS COMMUNITIES BUT WE
GET THE LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY.
OTHER PROVINCES GET A LARGER CUT
OUT OF THE ACTUAL FEDERAL BUDGET
ANNOUNCEMENTS THAN ONTARIO.

Steve says WHY IS THAT?

The caption changes to "Linda Debassige, @LindaDebassige."

Linda says POLITICS.
POLITICS.
TO YOUR COMMENT ON... WE NEED TO
TAKE CARE OF OUR LANDSCAPES IN
ORDER TO ENSURE THE PRESERVATION
OF QUALITY WATER.
WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE
WETLANDS, THE FORESTS WHICH
FILTRATE THE WATER WHEN IT
RETURNS BACK TO OUR ENVIRONMENT
TO ENSURE THAT THE QUALITY OF
OUR WATER IS SUSTAINED.
SO WE NEED TO REALLY... WHAT I
SEE AS THE LARGER PROBLEM IS OUR
FEDERAL POLICIES ARE NOT STRONG
ENOUGH TO ASSIST WITH THOSE
SOLUTIONS TO ENSURE THE
SUSTAINABILITY FOR FUTURE
GENERATIONS.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: TVO.org. Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Steve says WELL, WE'VE GOT
SOMEBODY SITTING BESIDE YOU FROM
ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE
CANADA, SO I SHOULD ASK YOU TO
COMMENT ON THAT.

Frank says ABOUT...

Steve says INADEQUATE
STANDARDS, ENOUGH MONEY GOING TO
THE ISSUES WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT, ETC.

Frank says UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S A BIT
BEYOND MY SCOPE.

Steve says YOU'RE NOT A POLITICIAN.

Frank says I'M NOT A POLITICIAN.
AND THAT GOES ON TO POLICY.
BUT FROM A SCIENCE POINT OF
VIEW, WHICH IS MORE MY THING, WE
OF COURSE, WHEN WE DO OUR KIND
OF PREDICTIONS OF WHAT WE SEE IN
THE FUTURE, WE DO... WHEN WE'RE
THINKING ABOUT DESIGNING THESE
PLANTS AND WATER TREATMENT, WE
DO HAVE TO CONSIDER WHAT WE SEE
IN THE FUTURE, AND JUST THE
DIFFERENT WAYS WE SEE THERE ARE
GOING TO BE MORE DROUGHTS, MORE
FLOODS, MORE DIFFERENT EXTREMES.
WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT KIND
OF THING WHEN WE'RE DESIGNING...

Steve says FRANK, HELP ME
UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS?

Frank says I DON'T
KNOW IF WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO
CLIMATE CHANGE EVENTUALLY OR
RIGHT NOW?

Steve says TAKE US THERE.

Frank says THE WATER LEVELS IN THE GREAT
LAKES IS A COMPLEX BALANCE
BETWEEN PRECIPITATION,
EVAPORATION, RUNOFF, AND IT GETS
INTO (INDISCERNIBLE) THAT
AFFECTS EVAPORATION.
A BIG GENERAL TREND IS THE LAKES
ARE GOING TO GO TWO METRES LOWER
OR HIGHER, BUT WE SEE A LOT OF
THE EXTREMES.
MORE OF THE LOWER WATER LEVELS,
MORE OF THE HIGHER WATER LEVELS.
WE'VE SEEN THAT IN THE LAST FEW
YEARS.
MICHIGAN, HURON, HAS HAD THE
LOWEST LEVEL IN ITS 100-YEAR
HISTORY.
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS WE REALLY
HAVE TO BE ADAPTABLE, SOMETHING
CALLED ADAPTIVE MANAGEMENT THAT
I THINK GAIL IS FAMILIAR WITH,
TO TALK ABOUT, WE HAVE TO BE
ABLE TO HANDLE THESE LOW WATER
LEVELS AND HIGH WATER LEVELS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING FROM
THE CLIMATE CHANGE WORK.
WE'VE GOT TO BE READY FOR THE
HIGHS AND LOWS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE
FUTURE.

Steve says GO AHEAD, GAIL.

The caption changes to "Gail Krantzberg, @gailkrantzberg."

Gail says WE HAVE A
BINATIONAL GREAT LAKES AGREEMENT
THAT HAS A CLIMATE CHANGE PIECE
IN IT, IT'S CALLED AN ANNEX, AND
ONE OF THE EXAMPLES IS WHAT YOU
JUST SAID.
THERE IT
THE ANNEX SAYS WE NEED TO
IMPROVE OUR UNDERSTANDING SO WE
CAN REACT TO EXTREME EVENTS.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
AS MUCH AS WE TALK ABOUT PARIS,
COP 21 AND MITIGATING CLIMATE
CHANGE AND CARBON TAXES AND
REDUCTIONS IN CARBON EMISSIONS,
THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING AND WE
NEED TO ADAPT TO THAT REALITY.
WHAT DO WE DO IN FLOODING
EVENTS?
HOW DO WE MAKE THEM LESS SEVERE?
WHAT DO WE DO IN TIMES OF
DROUGHT?
HOW DO WE MAKE OUR INTAKES LESS
SUSCEPTIBLE TO LOW WATER LEVELS.

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcasts: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says ARE THE
DECISION-MAKERS SEIZED OF THESE
QUESTIONS YET, IN YOUR VIEW?

Gail says I KNOW THAT MUNICIPALITIES
ARE REALLY LOOKING FOR ANSWERS
TO THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE
ON THE FRONT LINES.
THEY'RE THE ONES THAT OPERATE
THESE PLANTS, THEY'RE THE ONES
THAT PROVIDE WATER TO THE PEOPLE
AND THEY'VE BEEN ASKING FOR HELP
IN THIS.
AND I KNOW THAT... SO
ENVIRONMENT CANADA, MINISTRY OF
ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE
HAVE, UNDER THE ONTARIO
AGREEMENT, SOME PRIORITIES TO
UNDERSTAND THIS AND TO START
MOVING FORWARD TO BETTER
UNDERSTANDING.
SO THE BETTER UNDERSTANDING IS
GREAT.
THE SCIENCE IS GREAT.
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE SOME
PILOT SCALE TESTING ON
ADAPTATION STRATEGIES ON THE
GROUND NOW SO WE CAN LEARN FROM
THEM.
ARE THEY WORKING?
AND IF THEY'RE NOT WORKING, THEN
THE ADAPTIVE MANAGEMENT THING
COMES IN, RIGHT?
LEARNING BY DOING.
LET'S TRY SOMETHING.
IF IT DOESN'T WORK, OKAY.
NOW WE'LL DO SOMETHING
DIFFERENT.
I WANT ON-THE-GROUND ACTIVITIES
SO WE CAN MITIGATE MASSIVE
FLOODS OR PROLONGED DROUGHT.

Steve says WHILE YOU HAVE THE
FLOOR, CAN WE TALK ABOUT
PLASTICS?
THE ENVIRONMENT MINISTER WANTS
TO TAKE ON PLASTIC WASTE WHEN
THE G-7 MEETS IN JUNE IN QUEBEC.
IT'S NOT IMAGINABLE THAT WE'RE
ACTUALLY GOING TO BAN PLASTICS
BECAUSE THEY END UP POLLUTING
OUR WATERWAYS, RIGHT?
THAT'S NOT ON?

Gail says I DON'T THINK SO.

Steve says WHAT'S THE NEXT
THING WE COULD DO?
POLITICS BEING THE ART OF THE
POSSIBLE, WHAT'S THE POSSIBLE
HERE?

Gail says THERE ARE TWO THINGS GOING
ON.
ONE IS MICRO BEADS AND THEN THE
MICRO PLASTICS.
MICRO BEADS ARE THINGS THAT ARE
PUT INTO CONSUMER PRODUCTS TO
MAKE OUR FACES LOOK REALLY
BEAUTIFUL AND SO...

Steve says QUITE A WORTHWHILE GOAL.

Gail says BUT YOU CAN GROUND UP ALMOND SHELLS AND DO THE SAME THING,
WHICH IS WHAT WE USED TO DO.
UNDER THE CANADIAN ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION ACT THOSE MICRO BEADS
ARE GOING TO BE BANNED.
SO THE INDUSTRY, COSMETIC
INDUSTRY, WILL RESPOND, AND
THOSE WON'T BE IN OUR WASTEWATER
ANYMORE.
BUT THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF OTHER
MICRO PLASTIC SOURCES, AND WE
HAVE... IT'S VERY MUCH LIKE THE
GYRE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF MICRO
PLASTICS, THEY GET INTO
ORGANISMS THAT ARE EATEN BY
FISH.
THEY CANNOT ONLY BE MALNOURISHED
BECAUSE THE FOOD THEY'RE EATING
IS FULL OF PLASTICS, BUT THESE
PLASTICS ALSO HAVE THE CAPACITY
TO ABSORB CHEMICALS AND RELEASE
CHEMICALS AS THEY GET INTO
BIOTA.
WHEN WE EAT FISH FROM THE GREAT
LAKES, THEY COULD BE POLLUTED
AND WE MIGHT BE GETTING INTO
THEM.

Steve says I NEED TO GO TO
LINDA ON THIS.
YOU'RE RIGHT ON LAKE HURON.
IS THIS A BIG ISSUE FOR YOU?

Linda says HUGE.
WE'VE TALKED AND THE ELDERS HAVE
TALKED ABOUT HOW WE'VE SUSTAINED
OURSELVES, AND WE'RE WILD MEAT
EATERS.
FISH IS ONE OF OUR MAIN STAPLES
OF FOOD.
AND OUR PEOPLE ARE GETTING SICK.
AND WE'RE GETTING WARNINGS NOW
TO NOT CONSUME THE AMOUNT OF
FISH WE'VE CONSUMED.

Steve says YOU HAVE SEEN THIS?

Linda says BECAUSE OF THE TOXINS WITHIN THE FISH.
THE QUALITY OF FISH WENT DOWN
DRAMATICALLY.
I FISH, SO I SEE HOW SICK THE
FISH ARE WHEN WE HARVEST THEM.
THE QUALITY OF MEAT IS BAD.
THEY'RE VERY WORMY.
AND AT TIMES IT MAKES SOME
CHILDREN SICK.

Steve says LAKE HURON WHITEFISH
IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD.
IT'S PHENOMENAL, RIGHT?
AND YOU'RE SEEING A DECLINE
ALREADY IN THE QUALITY?

Linda says THERE ARE REPORTS OF, YOU
KNOW, MERCURY CONTAMINATION, BUT
AGAIN, SCIENCE TELLS US THAT
THIS IS OKAY, THIS AMOUNT IS
OKAY, BUT REALITY IS, IT'S NOT.
AND WE NEED TO STOP SAYING
THINGS ARE OKAY JUST FOR MONEY.
AND THAT'S ALL IT IS.
THE POLITICIANS ARE INFLUENCED
BY INDUSTRY TO ENSURE THAT
THEY'RE MAKING MONEY, SO LET'S
REDUCE SOME OF OUR POLICIES AND
WE'LL SAY IT'S OKAY SO THAT WE
DON'T HAVE TO PUT IN THESE LARGE
RESTRICTIONS.

Gail says I JUST
HAVE TO BE REALLY CLEAR HERE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FISH THAT
ARE CONTAMINATED.
THE MICRO PLASTICS STORY WE
DON'T KNOW YET.
WE DON'T KNOW IF THE FISH THAT
YOU'RE...

Linda says AGAIN,
THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE
INVESTMENTS INTO THESE STUDIES.

Gail says WE DON'T
KNOW YET WHAT THOSE MICRO
PLASTICS ARE DOING TO FISH BUT
WE NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT.
I DON'T WANT THE VIEWERS TO
THINK NOW WE HAVE THE ANSWERS
BUT WE KNOW THAT IT IS A VERY
SERIOUS ISSUE THAT WE DON'T HAVE
A LOT OF INFORMATION ON.

Steve says LET ME USE, AS YOUR
LAST ANSWER, A SEGUE TO TAKE US
WHERE I THINK WE NEED TO GO
NEXT, WHICH IS ON THE ISSUE OF
PRIVATE SECTOR COMPANIES AND
WHAT THEY OUGHT TO OR OUGHT NOT
BE ALLOWED TO DO AS IT RELATES
TO OUR WATER.
LARRY, HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU
ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WATER BEING
TAKEN OUT OF OUR GREAT LAKES
FOR, YOU KNOW, NESTLE, THAT KIND
OF THING, FOR WATER PURPOSES?

The caption changes to "Larry Swatuk, @lswatuk."
Then, it changes again to "Water wars?"

Larry says THERE'S A BIG WORLD WATER
MEETING GOING ON IN BRASILIA
RIGHT NOW.
A REPORT HAS BEEN RELEASED AND
IT'S CALLED NATURE-BASED
SOLUTIONS FOR WATER.
AND WHAT I'M HEARING IN THE
CONVERSATION IS THIS CONTINUING
DICHOTOMY BETWEEN BUSINESS AND
THE ENVIRONMENT, BETWEEN
ECONOMY, JOBS, THESE THINGS, AND
THE ENVIRONMENT, AS IF SOMEHOW
THE ENVIRONMENT IS OUTSIDE OF
US, RIGHT?
SO ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN
SAYING TO MY STUDENTS IS THAT
THE MOST IMPORTANT NATURE-BASED
SOLUTION IS TO RECOGNIZE THAT
HUMANS ARE PART OF NATURE AND TO
PUT US BACK INTO THE SYSTEM.
AND SO WITHDRAWING OFF WATER FOR
A VARIETY OF THINGS, YOU KNOW,
IT COULD BE NESTLE, IT COULD BE
THE FOX CON EXPANSION! AROUND
LAKE MICHIGAN.
IT'S ALWAYS A TRADE-OFF THAT IS
SOMEHOW, NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY
LEGALLY, WHEN SOMEONE DANGLES A
JOB IN FRONT OF YOU,
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS ARE
IMMUTABLE, WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE
WANT WITH THEM.
AND SO SOMEHOW... I MEAN, I
DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO ABOUT
THAT.
ONE THING IS WE HAVE TO MAKE...
SOMEHOW MAKE... WE HAVE TO
INTEGRATE CLIMATE, ENVIRONMENT
INTO ECONOMIC DECISION-MAKING
STRAIGHTAWAY.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO SUBSTITUTE
FOR REGULATION IN GOVERNMENT,
I'M SORRY TO SAY THAT.
I KNOW IT'S NOT POPULAR.
NOBODY RAN ON A TAX AND WON.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT STARTS THERE,
RIGHT?
YOU HAVE TO FORCE BUSINESSES TO
DO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
ASSESSMENT, SOCIAL IMPACT
ASSESSMENT, AND ADHERE TO THESE
THINGS.

Steve says LET ME PUT THAT TO
FRANK.
ARE YOU CONCERNED, DO YOU KNOW
WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA
IS CONCERNED, THAT PRIVATE
COMPANIES ARE TAKING TOO MUCH
WATER OUT OF OUR GREAT LAKES FOR
PRIVATE PURPOSES?

The caption changes to "Frank Seglenieks, @Steve_Zodiac."

Frank says CERTAINLY
WE TRIED TO REGULATE THAT AND
TRIED TO LOOK AT THAT.
AND SOLUTIONS, WE CAN'T DO JUST
ONE THING IN CANADA AND HAVE A
DIFFERENT THING IN THE UNITED
STATES.
ONE THING ON THE SCIENTIFIC
PART, WE CERTAINLY WORK HAND IN
HAND WITH OUR AMERICAN
COUNTERPARTS.
BASICALLY WHATEVER MY JOB,
THERE'S A COUNTERPART ON THE
U.S. SIDE.
SO I BELIEVE THAT... GAIL TALKED
ABOUT THIS COMPACT BETWEEN THE
DIFFERENT GOVERNORS IN THE
STATES AND THE PROVINCES.
THERE'S VERY STRICT REGULATIONS.
THERE WAS A CASE IN MILWAUKEE
WHERE THEY WANTED TO TAKE WATER
OUT OF THE GREAT LAKES BASIN,
ALTHOUGH THEY WERE ABOVE THAT,
AND IT WAS A BIG CONTROVERSY.
LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE, JUST
A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF WATER, IT
WAS ALL ABOUT THE PRECEDENT IT
MIGHT SET, OF COURSE.

A map of the Great Lakes area pops up showing the Great Lakes Basin, and highlighting the locations of Waukesha and Racine.

Frank continues IF YOU DO THAT, THEN A BIGGER
CITY IS GOING TO ASK FOR IT AND
A BIGGER CITY AND EVENTUALLY YOU
HAVE IDAHO LOOKING FOR IT.

Steve says APROPOS OF THAT...
SHELDON, DO YOU WANT TO BRING
THIS GRAPHIC UP HERE?

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Tapping the great lakes." The quote reads "Because there's so much fresh water, you can imagine that 50 years from now there might actually be a pipeline that brings water from the Great Lakes to Phoenix. I thing that's part of out future."
Jay Famiglietti, as quoted on ideastream.org. April 4, 2017.

Steve says THIS ACCORDING TO A
NASA JET PROPULSION SCIENTIST IN
PASADENA, CALIFORNIA, WHO SAID
HE WASN'T ADVOCATED FOR THIS BUT
OTHERS MAY WANT TO EXPLORE THIS
IN THE FUTURE IN ORDER TO HELP
GROW FOOD IN PLACES WHERE THEY
HAVE LESS WATER.
IS THIS A CRAZY IDEA?

Gail says YES.

Steve says IT IS A CRAZY IDEA.

Larry says CAN I JUMP IN ON THIS?
THE CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT IS
ALSO A CRAZY IDEA.
BECAUSE I WORK AROUND THE WORLD
IN ARID ENVIRONMENTS, THERE'S
NOT A POLICY MAKER IN AN ARID
ENVIRONMENT THAT DOESN'T LOOK AT
PHOENIX AND LAS VEGAS AND SAY I
WANT THAT.
THEY BELIEVE THIS IS A VIABLE
FUTURE.
I LIVED IN BOTSWANA FOR 11 YEARS
AND ON THE RIVER, THE NAMIBIAN
GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME, IN THE
EARLY 2000s, HAD THIS DREAM TO
BRING WATER FROM THE RIVER... TO
BE BRING WATER FROM THE CONGO
RIVER TO GREEN THE DESERT.
THIS SOUNDS CRAZY.
IN SOME CASES, IF THERE'S ENOUGH
MONEY AROUND, WATER CAN LOOK
LIKE OIL.

Steve says WELL, FORGIVE ME.
I HAVE A MINUTE LEFT AND I WANT
TO GIVE IT TO LINDA.
I'M WONDERING, AS ONE LOOKS
FORWARD, WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN
IMAGINE THAT THE WARS OF THE
FUTURE ARE GOING TO BE FOUGHT
BETWEEN THOSE WHO HAVE GOT THE
WATER AND THOSE WHO WANT THE WATER.

Linda says ABSOLUTELY.
AND WE'LL SEE THE WARS EVEN
WITHIN OUR OWN COUNTRY OF CANADA
WITH OUR STILL STRAINED
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR FIRST
NATIONS PEOPLE AND THE CANADIAN
GOVERNMENT.
HISTORICALLY WE HAVE NEVER CEDED
ANY RIGHTS OR TITLE TO WATER,
THE AMERICAN TRIBES OF THE
STATES FEEL THE SAME WAY.
WITH THIS COMPACT AGREEMENT,
THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT NEEDS
TO BE DONE WITH FIRST NATIONS
AND INDIGENOUS TRIBES... OUR ELDERS FORESEE WARS IN THE FUTURE.

Steve says OVER WATER?

Linda says RIGHT NOW WATER IS MORE
EXPENSIVE THAN GASOLINE.

Steve says IT'S TRUE, ISN'T IT?
DO YOU WANT THE LAST WORD ON THIS?
THAT IS A FRIGHTENING FUTURE.

Gail says IT IS.
AND I CAN'T CONTRADICT AN ELDER.
BUT I WOULD SAY WATER IS LIFE
AND THERE ARE SOME PARTS OF THE
WORLD THAT THE ONLY TIME NATIONS
COME TOGETHER PEACEFULLY IS
BECAUSE THEY SHARE THE WATER AND
THEY NEED IT FOR SUSTENANCE.

Steve says SO THAT'S HOPEFUL.

Gail says THAT'S MY SENSE OF
HOPEFULNESS.

Steve says WHY DON'T WE LEAVE
IT ON THAT OPTIMISTIC NOTE.
CAN I THANK OUR GUESTS FROM
COMING IN TONIGHT FROM NEAR,
WHICH HAMILTON AND WATERLOO I
GUESS WOULD BE, AND WHERE DO YOU
HANG OUT?

Frank says WATERLOO.

The caption changes to "Producer: Patricia Kozicka, @TrishKozicka."

Steve says WATERLOO ALSO.
LET'S SAY THANK YOU... YOU WANT
TO GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
TABLE FIRST?
GAIL LORD FROM McMASTER
UNIVERSITY AND LARRY SWATUK FROM
THE WATER INSTITUTE, AND THEN
FROM FAR, FRANK, NOT SO MUCH
YOU, FROM WATERLOO, BUT LINDA
DEBASSIGE DROVE 8 HOURS TO BE
WITH US, THAT'S IMPRESSIVE, ALL
THE WAY FROM MANITOULIN ISLAND.
GREAT TO HAVE ALL OF YOU AROUND
OUR TABLE AT TVO TONIGHT.

Frank says IT'S A PLEASURE.

Watch: World Water Woes