Transcript: A Celebrated Editor | Jul 05, 2018

Nam sits in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a gray blazer over a green shirt.

A caption on screen reads "The celebrity editor. Nam Kiwanuka, @namshine, @theagenda."

Nam says A MIX OF CELEBRITY JOURNALISM,
FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTING, AND
FASHION PUSHED
VANITY FAIR
MAGAZINE ON TOP BECAUSE OF THE
VISION AND DRIVE OF ITS
EDITOR-IN-CHIEF TINA BROWN.
SHE WENT ON TO RECREATE THAT
SUCCESS FOR THE ICONIC
NEW
AND NOW THE LIVE INTERVIEW
PLATFORM WOMEN IN THE WORLD.
HER NEW BOOK IS...

A picture of the book appears briefly on screen. The cover is beige and reads "The Vanity Fair Diaries."
Tina is in her fifties, with short feathery blond hair. She's wearing a purple blazer over a white blouse, and pearl earrings.

Nam continues TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT
TRANSFORMING MEDIA AND WOMEN IN
LEADERSHIP, WE'RE PLEASED TO
WELCOME BACK TINA FOR THE SECOND
PART OF OUR CONVERSATION.

Tina says HEY.

NAM SAYS IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

Tina says YOU TOO.

Nam says YOU HAVE BECOME SYNONYMOUS WITH
VANITY FAIR,
AND YET, IN 1992,
YOU DECIDED TO LEAVE.
WHY?

The caption changes to "Tina Brown. Author, 'The Vanity Fair Diaries.'"

Tina says I WAS GETTING RESTLESS WITH
CELEBRITY CULTURE, AND IT MAKES
ME LAUGH NOW, BUT I FELT THAT
CELEBRITY CULTURE WAS KIND OF
REACHING THE END OF THE LINE
[LAUGHS]
LITTLE DID I KNOW ACTUALLY IT
WAS GOING TO GET EVEN MORE
MARINATING IN OUR LIVES.
BUT I WAS GETTING... I WAS JUST
GETTING A LITTLE BIT TIRED OF
THAT, AND I KIND OF WANTED TO
RAISE MY GAME AGAIN.
AND I'M NOT SO GREAT AT BEING A
STEWARD, YOU KNOW?
I'M BETTER AT BEING THE KIND
OF... THE CREATOR WHO COMES IN AND
IS THE CHANGE AGENT, AND I...

Nam says THE GIRL IN THE ARENA.

The caption changes to "The path from legacy to digital."

Tina says YEAH, I LIKE BEING THE
GIRL IN
THE ARENA.
I'D BEEN AT
VANITY FAIR
FOR
EIGHT-AND-A-HALF YEARS, COME OFF
THIS HUGE SUCCESS WHERE WE TOOK
IT FROM, YOU KNOW, 250,000 TO
1.2 MILLION.
WE'D HAD... VERY SUCCESSFUL NOW,
MAKING MONEY.
AND I JUST WANTED TO DO... HAVE A
CHANGE.
AND THE CHANGE, AS IT TURNED
OUT, CAME ABOUT INSIDE CONDÉ
NAST BECAUSE S.I. NEWHOUSE
HAD BOUGHT
THE NEW YORKER.
AND RATHER LIKE WITH
VANITY
FAIR,
HE'D HAD TWO FAILING
EDITORS THERE, SO HE NOW WANTED
TO HAVE A NEW LOOK AND A
FRESHENING UP AND REALIZED AS
WELL THAT IF HE DIDN'T, HE WAS
GOING TO LOSE ALL THE
ADVERTISING BECAUSE THE
DEMOGRAPHICS HAD BEGUN TO REALLY
AGE AT THAT TIME IN 1992,
BECOME A VERY... IT HAD
BECOME STALE, YOU KNOW?
IT WAS A SLEEPING BEAUTY, IF YOU
LIKE.
IT WAS STILL A BEAUTIFUL
LITERARY JEWEL, BUT IT WAS
BECOMING VERY FUSTY AND MUSTY,
AND HE KNEW HE HAD TO GIVE IT A
FACELIFT IN EVERY WAY.
SO THAT'S WHEN HE STARTED TO
THINK, "WELL, MAYBE I SHOULD BE
THE ONE TO DO IT."

Nam says WHAT DID YOU WANT TO DO WITH
THE NEW YORKER?

Tina says WELL, I FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT
I HAD A VISION FOR IT.
AND VERY MUCH LIKE
VANITY FAIR,
I KNEW WHAT I WANTED TO DO.
AND AT FIRST, I DIDN'T WANT IT
BECAUSE I THOUGHT, "THIS
MAGAZINE DOESN'T REALLY SPEAK TO
ME.
I FIND IT TOO SORT OF POMPOUS,"
IF YOU LIKE.
THEN...

Nam says AND CRITICS ALSO, YOU KNOW, SAID
THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE THE RIGHT
PERSON FOR IT.

Tina says THAT'S RIGHT, AND I WASN'T EVEN
SURE I WAS MYSELF.
BUT THEN I WENT BACK INTO THE
LIBRARIES, AND I LOOKED AT THE
EARLY ISSUES OF THE MAGAZINE
FROM THE 1920S AND '30S.
AND I REALIZED THAT THAT EARLY
NEW YORKER
WAS VERY MUCH THE
KIND OF MAGAZINE THAT I COULD
EDIT.
IT HAD... HAD MUCH MORE VITALITY
AND BRIO; IT HAD A NEWS GENE TO
IT; THE VISUALS IN IT WERE USED
LARGE; IT WAS MUCH MORE VISUALLY
EXCITING.
AND ALL OF THESE THINGS MADE ME
REALIZE I WANT TO TAKE
THE NEW
OF WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN THE '20S,
BEFORE IT BECAME THIS AUGUST
THING, WHEN IT WAS REALLY A MUCH
MORE SCRAPPY MAGAZINE, IF YOU
LIKE.
AND WITH THAT VISION, IN A
SENSE, I WENT IN ONCE AGAIN AND
I REDESIGNED IT TOP TO TOE, IN
WHICH I TWEAKED ALL OF IT AND
MODERNIZED IT AND FRESHENED IT UP.
I DIDN'T THROW OUT THAT
WONDERFUL TYPEFACE OR ITS KIND
OF CLEAN SORT OF SEVERE LOOK,
BUT I DID ADD PHOTOGRAPHY, WHICH
IT HAD NEVER HAD BEFORE.
I BROUGHT RICHARD AVEDON IN AS
OUR FIRST AND ONLY STAFF
PHOTOGRAPH.
I ADDED COLOUR,
ILLUSTRATIONS... MORE
ILLUSTRATIONS... FOUND A WHOLE
RAFT OF WONDERFUL NEW
CARTOONISTS AND ILLUSTRATORS,
CHANGED THE CARTOON EDITOR,
REALLY SORT OF GAVE IT A
COMPLETE FACELIFT.
AND THEN I HIRED... I ACTUALLY LET
GO ABOUT 70 PEOPLE, AND I HIRED
ANOTHER 45 OF WRITERS WHO I
THOUGHT WERE THE BEST THAT I
COULD FIND ANYWHERE.
AND THEY WERE, IN FACT, EVERY
BIT AS GOOD AS THE ONES THAT I
LET GO IN THEIR HEYDAY.
AND ACTUALLY, I WOULD ARGUE EVEN
BETTER, REALLY.
I HIRED DAVID REMNICK, WHO AT
THAT TIME WAS AT
THE WASHINGTON POST.
I HIRED HENDRIK HERTZBERG WHO AT
THAT TIME WAS AT
THE NEW REPUBLIC.
I HIRED JANE MAYER WHO BECAME A
GREAT INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST
FOR US.
I HAD ANTHONY LANE FROM LONDON,
MADE HIM THE MOVIE CRITIC.
JOHN LAHR WHO BECAME THE THEATRE
CRITIC.
SO, I REALLY HIRED ALL THESE
AMAZING... AND MALCOLM GLADWELL... WHO I DISCOVERED, AND OF
COURSE HE TURNED OUT TO BE A
HUGE SUPERSTAR VERY QUICKLY.
AND INDEED JEFFREY TOOBIN WHO
WAS AN ASSISTANT DA, AND, OF
COURSE, BECAME THE GREAT LEGAL
AND HE WAS THE WRITER THAT I
ASSIGNED TO DO THIS BREAKING
STORY ON THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE.
AND AT THE TIME I SENT JEFF TO
COVER IT, I WASN'T EVEN SURE
THAT JEFF WAS GOING TO SURVIVE
WITH US, BECAUSE HE'D DONE THREE
OR FOUR PIECES AND I THOUGHT,
"YOU KNOW, THEY WERE OK, BUT
THEY WEREN'T THE BEST THING WE'D
PUBLISHED."
THEN WHEN I SENT HIM TO DO O.J.
SIMPSON, HE JUST CAME INTO HIS
OWN, AND HE BECAME,
YOU KNOW,
THE
VOICE TO GO TO
FOR O.J. SIMPSON.

Nam says WHEN MEDIA COVERED YOUR SUCCESS
WITH
VANITY FAIR
AND
THE NEW
YORKER,
THEY WOULD SAY THINGS
LIKE... THEY WOULD DESCRIBE YOU AS
A RED CORVETTE; THEY WOULD, YOU
KNOW, SAY YOU'RE A STARLET
PLAYING JULIET.
DID YOU MEET... DID YOU
CONFRONT... DID YOU HAVE A LOT OF
SEXISM...

Tina says YES.

NAM SAYS DID YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH
LIKE A LOT OF IT?

Tina says I DID, AND AT THE TIME, I DIDN'T
REALLY PROCESS IT AS THAT SO
MUCH, BUT I FELT VERY IRRITATED,
FRANKLY, THAT SO MUCH OF WHAT I
WAS DOING WAS SO GOOD, YOU KNOW,
IN TERMS OF UPGRADING THE
MAGAZINE'S STANDARDS.
BUT AT THE TIME, NO, I GOT A LOT
OF FLACK FOR IT, AND A LOT OF
THE FLACK WAS ABOUT A KIND OF
MARGINALIZING, IF YOU LIKE, OF
THE EFFORTS THAT I MADE AS A
KIND OF... THAT OF A WOMAN,
WHO SOMEHOW, THEREFORE, WAS LESS
GRAVITAS.
AND IT WAS UNDOUBTEDLY A SEXIST
FEELING THAT WAS PROJECTED.
AND, YOU KNOW, I LIVED WITH IT
FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT'S REALLY
ONLY NOW THAT I SEE IT FOR WHAT
IT WAS, WHICH WAS REALLY A KIND
OF GRUDGING MISOGYNY THAT WAS
DIRECTED AT ME FOR MANY, MANY
YEARS.

Nam says WELL, YOU LEFT, AND THEN THIS
TIME, YOU WENT TO A DIFFERENT
JOB IN 1998.
WHAT WAS THAT NEW JOB?

Tina says WELL, I DID MAKE A CAREER MOVE
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, IN MY USUAL
FASHION, THINKING, YOU KNOW,
"I'VE DONE
THE NEW YORKER
NOW;
IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS; IT'S
GREAT; YOU KNOW, THE
DEMOGRAPHICS CHANGED; IT'S
WONDERFUL WRITERS; EVERYTHING'S
PERFECT.
SO YOU THINK I WOULD LEAVE WELL
ALONE, RIGHT, AND STAY THERE AND
ENJOY IT.
NO, I WANTED TO EXPAND
THE NEW
YORKER
AND MAKE IT INTO A TV
SHOW, A RADIO SHOW, A LITERARY
FESTIVAL.
ALL THE THINGS, BY THE WAY, THAT
THEY'RE NOW DOING.

NAM SAYS DOING, EXACTLY.

Tina says AND... BUT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO
THAT AT CONDÉ NAST.
THEY FELT THAT IT WAS JUST... JUST
A MAGAZINE.
SO JUST WHEN I WAS SITTING THERE
RUMINATING ABOUT ALL OF THIS,
ALONG COMES, YOU KNOW, A
SWASHBUCKLING MOVIE PRODUCER WHO
TELLS ME THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE
WANTS TO DO WITH ME.
HE WILL GIVE ME A MAGAZINE THAT
COULD ALSO MAKE MOVIES THAT
COULD ALSO DO BOOKS THAT COULD
ALSO DO TV, AND HIS NAME WAS
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, RIGHT, OF
MIRAMAX.
SO, YOU KNOW, I DID THIS... WELL
NOW I REALIZE, OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS
AN ABSOLUTELY CRAZY THING TO DO.
I JUMPED OUT OF
THE NEW YORKER
INTO A PARTNERSHIP WITH HARVEY
WEINSTEIN AT MIRAMAX TO DO TALK
MAGAZINE WITH HIM, WHICH ALSO
WAS TALK BOOKS AND, YOU KNOW,
WAS GOING TO BECOME TALK FILMS,
ET CETERA.
THE BOOK COMPANY WAS VERY
SUCCESSFUL.
DOING THE MAGAZINE WITH HARVEY
THOUGH WAS JUST A COMPLETE AND
UTTER NIGHTMARE, AND IN FACT...

Nam says WHY?

TINA SAYS EVERYTHING ABOUT WORKING
WITH HARVEY WAS A NIGHTMARE
BECAUSE BASICALLY HE SAW THE
MAGAZINE AS SIMPLY A MECHANISM
FOR HIM TO SORT OF HAVE
DOMINANCE OVER HOLLYWOOD, STARS.
HE SAW IT AS HIS PLATFORM.
AND HE WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO PARTNER
WITH BECAUSE HE WAS JUST SO
PROFANE; HE WAS JUST SO
IMPOSSIBLE; HIS TEMPER WAS
EXPLOSIVE; HE WAS... HE WAS
ABUSIVE, YOU KNOW, VERBALLY TO
ME CONSTANTLY.
AND I HAD JUST NEVER WORKED IN
THAT KIND OF AN ATMOSPHERE.
I WAS STUNNED IN THE FIRST
MEETING I HAD WITH HIM WHEN HE
WAS SO RUDE, YOU KNOW, TO
EVERYBODY ON HIS STAFF, AND SO
HUMILIATING.
AND I REALIZED WITHIN ABOUT TEN
MINUTES, I WILL SAY, OF GOING TO
WORK FOR HIM, THAT I HAD MADE AN
ENORMOUS MISTAKE, BUT, YOU KNOW,
THE DEED WAS DONE.

NAM SAYS YOU STAYED.

Tina says I HAD LEFT, RIGHT?
AND I... THIS IS WHAT I WAS DOING,
AND I HAD TO TRY TO MAKE IT
WORK.

Nam says KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW... WHAT YOU
KNEW THEN, DO THE ALLEGATIONS
AGAINST HIM SURPRISE YOU?

Tina says WELL, I NEVER EXPERIENCED THE
SEXUAL COME-ONS AT ALL FROM HARVEY.
WE WERE IN A DIFFERENT BUILDING,
AND HE DIDN'T TREAT ME THAT WAY.
I THINK HE WAS AFRAID OF ME IN A
WAY BECAUSE I HAD MY OWN POWER
BASE, BECAUSE I HAD MEDIA, AND
HE WAS AFRAID OF THAT.
YOU KNOW, AS A MEDIA PERSON, I
WAS POTENTIALLY A THREAT.
SO, HE DIDN'T EVER SEXUALLY
HARASS ME, BUT I WAS NOT
SURPRISED, NO, REALLY, WHEN I
HEARD BECAUSE HE WAS... YOU KNOW,
FORGET ABOUT THE SEXUAL STUFF;
HE WAS JUST LIKE THAT
WITH... ABOUT EVERYTHING.
YOU KNOW, YOU SIT IN A MEETING
WITH HARVEY, AND IT WAS ALL
ABOUT BEING ABUSIVE, ABOUT
CONNING PEOPLE, ABOUT TAKING
THINGS FROM SOMEBODY, ABOUT
MAKING PEOPLE FEEL SMALL.
THAT'S JUST THE WAY HE WAS, YOU
KNOW?
AND... BUT, YOU KNOW, HE ALSO WAS
A VERY TALENTED PRODUCER, AND
THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE FORGET TODAY.
THE HARVEY I WENT TO WORK FOR
WAS PRODUCING
THE ENGLISH
PATIENT,
WAS PRODUCING
SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE,
WAS
PRODUCING ALL OF THESE GREAT
MOVIES THAT HAD A LOT OF TASTE,
SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS VERY
DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND, UNTIL
YOU REALLY WENT TO WORK FOR HIM,
THAT HE WAS... IT WAS A JEKYLL AND
HYDE SITUATION WITH HIM.

Nam says DIARIES,
AND I WOULD LIKE TO
READ SOMETHING THAT YOU WROTE.
YOU WRITE...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Abundance." The quote reads "The American media world for which I was headed in the early eighties was enjoying an era of blockbuster confidence. In publishing, paying outlets for writers and photographers –cash-cow newspaper chains, prosperous publishing houses, ad-stuffed magazines- were legion. There were twenty-five hundred new magazines launched between 1979 and 1989. To be the editor of Time or Newsweek was to be a demigod."
Quoted from Tina Brown, "The Vanity Fair Diaries, 1983-1992." 2017.

Nam says I ASSUME ANYONE IN OUR INDUSTRY
RIGHT NOW WOULD READ THAT AND
WANT TO CRY.

TINA SAYS RIGHT.

Nam says WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PUBLISHING WORLD?

Tina says WELL, TWO HORRIBLE THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, CONGLOMERATES CAME
INTO PUBLISHING AND MEDIA,
WHICH WAS HORRIBLE.
YOU KNOW, THAT THEY DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND... HUGE MERGERS BUYING
PUBLISHING COMPANIES, BUYING
NEWSPAPERS, AND THEY NEVER
UNDERSTOOD WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
BUT THE BIGGEST THING THAT
HAPPENED, OF COURSE, WAS DIGITAL
DISRUPTION, WHICH IS WHAT WE
HAVE SEEN.
AND THE TRAGEDY HAS BEEN, YOU
KNOW, THAT FACEBOOK AND GOOGLE
REALLY HAVE JUST TAKEN ALL THE
AD REVENUE OUT OF THE BUSINESS
AND NEVER GIVEN ANY OF IT BACK
TO THE WRITERS AND JOURNALISTS
AND PHOTOGRAPHERS AND ARTISTS
THAT THEY FRANKLY JUST
"AGGREGATE" AND JUST POST,
AND... YOU KNOW, AND ALL OF THESE
THINGS, AND THERE ISN'T ANY
MONEY IN IT FOR ANYBODY EXCEPT
THEM.
SO, THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S
DESTROYED THE MEDIA BUSINESS... AND MADE IT SO VERY DIFFICULT
FOR QUALITY TO SURVIVE.
AND IT'S WHY EVERYBODY INVOLVED
WITH TRYING TO DO GOOD
JOURNALISM, YOU KNOW, IS WRITING
FOR PENNIES WHEN THEY WERE
WRITING, YOU KNOW, FOR A DECENT
LIVING WAGE, WHICH IS A VERY,
VERY UNSETTLING, BECAUSE, OF
COURSE, IT MEANS MANY PEOPLE
JUST HAVE HAD TO GET OUT
OF... GREAT JOURNALISTS HAVE HAD
TO LEAVE OUR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE A
LIVING.
OR THEY GO INTO PR OR THEY GO
INTO ADVERTISING.
AND, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY KIND OF
TRAGIC WHAT'S HAPPENED.

Nam says WELL, SPEAKING OF DIGITAL
DISRUPTION, IN 2008, YOU
CO-FOUNDED THE DIGITAL NEWS SITE
THE DAILY BEAST.
WHAT LED YOU TO DECIDE TO LEAP
INTO DIGITAL JOURNALISM?

Tina says WELL, ACTUALLY, I MEAN, I
THOROUGHLY ENJOYED AND I LOVED
IT, EDITING
THE DAILY BEAST.
I FOUNDED IT IN 2008, JUST AT
THE TIME WHEN OBAMA BECAME
PRESIDENT.
JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION, WE
STARTED IT.
AND I STARTED THAT WITH BARRY
DILLER... THE ENTERTAINMENT MOGUL
WHO... THEN NOW IS AN INTERNET
COMPANY.
AND HE SAID TO ME, "YOU KNOW, I
LOVE WHAT YOU DID AT
VANITY FAIR AND THE NEW YORKER.
COME AND DO KIND OF THE SAME
KIND OF HIGH-LOW NEWS SITE THAT
YOU COULD DO, BUT DO IT DIGITALLY."
AND I AT FIRST DIDN'T THINK THAT
I COULD.
I DIDN'T THINK I'D WANT TO
BECAUSE I LOVED PRINT SO MUCH,
BUT AS SOON AS I STARTED TO
DESIGN
THE DAILY BEAST,
AND TO
REALLY CREATE IT, I REALIZE HOW
EXCITING IT WAS AS A MEDIUM.
I LOVE THE SPEED OF IT; I LOVE
THE RESPONSE OF IT.
IT'S LIKE HAVING A FISH ON A
HOOK WHEN YOU SUDDENLY PUBLISH A
PIECE, PRINT IT, POST IT, AND
YOU FEEL THAT PULL OF TRAFFIC,
YOU KNOW?
THERE'S THIS KIND OF VERY HEADY
SENSE OF AN AUDIENCE...

NAM SAYS FEEDBACK.

Tina says FEEDBACK, FEEDBACK.

NAM SAYS YEAH.

Tina says IT'S VERY HEADY, ACTUALLY, TO
SUDDENLY SEE... OH MY GOSH, WE
USED TO HAVE THIS... YOU KNOW,
THIS CHART IN THE OFFICE WHICH
SHOWED THE TRAFFIC, AND YOU'D
LOOK AT THIS CHART, AND YOU'D
SUDDENLY SEE A STORY TAKING OFF
IRRESISTIBLY, SORT OF ATTRACTING
READERS ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND
WE HAD THIS WONDERFUL KIND OF
MAP... THIS ELECTRONIC MAP WHICH
SORT OF SHOWED WHERE IN THE
WORLD WE WERE BEING READ, AND
YOU'D SEE CLUMPS OF READERS IN
ISTANBUL AND CLUMPS OF READERS
IN SCOTLAND... AND CLUMPS OF READERS... IT WAS
VERY EXCITING.
SO, I DID LOVE THAT.
AND... BUT THE PROBLEM WITH A NEWS
SITE IS THAT THERE'S VERY LITTLE
AVENUE, REALLY, FOR REVENUE.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST... YOU KNOW,
ADVERTISERS DON'T WANT TO
ADVERTISE AROUND NEWS; THEY WANT
TO ADVERTISE AROUND FEEL-GOOD
TOPICS, YOU KNOW?
SO, IF YOU WANT TO TRY TO MAKE
MONEY OUT OF NEWS, YOU PROBABLY
NEW YORK TIMES,
YOU KNOW,
HAS NOW GONE, WHICH IS,
YOU KNOW, SUBSCRIPTION.
WHICH IS WHAT WE PROBABLY SHOULD
HAVE DONE AT THE VERY BEGINNING.
BUT AT THAT MOMENT, IT WASN'T
WHEN PEOPLE WERE REALLY DOING
THAT.

Nam says WELL, EVEN WHEN YOU WERE AT
VANITY FAIR,
THERE WAS AN ENTRY
IN YOUR DIARY WHERE YOU KIND
OF... KIND OF FORESAW THIS
HAPPENING.
AND IN
VANITY FAIR,
SOMETHING
THAT YOU DID, YOU COVERED TOPICS
THAT WERE TIMELY, BUT ALSO KIND
OF CONTROVERSIAL AT THE TIME.
YOU COVERED THE AIDS EPIDEMIC
THAT WAS HAPPENING.
YOU EVEN HAD A WRITER FILE A
PIECE THAT WAS 20,000-WORDS LONG
ON DEPRESSION.

Tina says YEAH.

Nam says DO YOU FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, WITH
WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH DIGITAL
DISRUPTION, THAT QUALITY OF
JOURNALISM IS NOT THERE ANYMORE?

Tina says WELL, I DO THINK THERE'S A LOT
OF FANTASTIC JOURNALISM BEING
DONE IN THOSE PLACES THAT CAN
TO PUBLISH IT, BUT ALSO
SIMPLY BY JOURNALISTS WHO ARE
JUST PASSIONATE.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PUBLISHING
GREAT STUFF.
BUT A LOT OF THEM ARE JUST NOT
MAKING A LIVING OUT OF IT IS THE
PROBLEM.
AND THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS THAT
YOU CAN'T AGGREGATE IN ONE PLACE
THE EYEBALLS AROUND IT... SO YOU DON'T HAVE THE SAME
IMPACT AS WHEN, YOU KNOW,
ALL EYEBALLS WERE DIRECTED AT
CERTAIN AVENUES.
YOU WOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE MUCH
GREATER IMPACT.
TODAY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO
SORT OF STRUGGLE TO DISTRIBUTE A
PIECE TO GET IMPACT, AND THAT'S
WHAT I THINK WRITERS FIND VERY
DEMORALIZING.
THEY'RE CONSTANTLY ASKING
THEMSELVES EXISTENTIAL
QUESTIONS.
I MEAN, EDITORS NOW HAVE TO KEEP
ASKING THEMSELVES NOT JUST,
"IS IT A GOOD ISSUE, AND HAVE
I BEEN ABLE TO ATTRACT THE
ADVERTISING?" BUT, "HOW DO I
MAKE THIS THING LIVE IN THIS
ECOSYSTEM WHICH DOESN'T REALLY
REWARD WHAT I'M DOING?"
YOU KNOW?
SO YOU KIND OF FEEL A LITTLE
FUTILE HALF THE TIME, WHERE
YOU'RE SORT OF STRUGGLING UPHILL
WITH SOMETHING.
HOW DO YOU MAKE A BUSINESS MODEL
OUT OF IT?
AND THAT'S, I THINK, QUITE
DEMORALIZING TO THE WHOLE
PROFESSION.

Nam says AND IN
THE VANITY FAIR DIARIES,
YOU INTRODUCE US TO DONALD
TRUMP.
WHEN YOU FIRST MET HIM, YOU
LIKED HIM.

TINA SAYS I DID.

NAM SAYS WHY?

An old black and white picture tinted yellow shows a young Donald Trump sitting next to a young Tina as she sips from a champagne glass.

The caption changes to "Attacks on the media."

TINA SAYS I THOUGHT HE WAS FUNNY;
IRREVERENT; FRESH; BRASH.
YOU KNOW, THAT HE WAS AMUSING.
WHEN I MET HIM, HE WAS SORT OF
OUTRAGEOUS; HE WAS KIND OF... YOU
KNOW, HE WAS LIKE A KIND OF A
BARNUM AND BAILEY CHARACTER WHO
I FOUND AMUSING AND
QUINTESSENTIALLY NEW YORK.
BUT GRADUALLY, HE GOT A LOT LESS
AMUSING AS THE YEARS WENT BY.
AND WHEN WE REALLY BEGAN TO DO
DEEP DIVES INTO HIM AS A
STORY... A HARD STORY AS OPPOSED
TO A CULTURAL CHARACTER,
BUT ACTUALLY AS A BUSINESS
STORY, THEN WE CAME TO FIND
THAT, OF COURSE, HE WAS
ENORMOUSLY DUPLICITOUS IN TERMS
OF HOW HE REPRESENTED HIS STORY.
AND THAT HIS BUSINESS WAS IN
KIND OF DISARRAY.
AND HE WAS... VERY LITTLE ABOUT
WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HIMSELF WAS
REAL.
SO WE PUBLISHED THIS
AMAZINGLY... A TOUGH FORENSIC DIVE
INTO TRUMP BY MARIE BRENNER... THE
GREAT... ONE OF MY GREAT WRITERS
THERE... AND SHE ALSO REPORTED
THAT ON HIS DESK WAS A COPY OF
HITLER'S SPEECHES, WHICH OF
COURSE GOT TREMENDOUS
ATTENTION... VERY NEGATIVE
ATTENTION... AND TRUMP WAS
ABSOLUTELY LIVID ABOUT THIS
PIECE AND DENOUNCED US TO THE
GOSSIP COLUMNIST LIZ SMITH,
DENOUNCED US TO BARBARA WALTERS,
DENOUNCED US, DENOUNCED US.
AND THEN WE... MARIE BRENNER WAS
AT A BLACK-TIE BENEFIT AT... AFTER
THE SCREENING OF A BARBARA
STREISAND MOVIE, AND SHE WAS
SITTING THERE AT THIS BLACK-TIE
BENEFIT IN HER DINNER DRESS, AND
SHE WAS EATING HER DINNER, AND
AS SHE'S EATING HER DINNER, SHE
FINDS... FEELS SOMETHING KIND OF
COLD AND WET, AND SHE TURNS
AROUND, AND SHE THINKS THE
WAITER HAS SPILT A DRINK,
AND SHE SEES DONALD TRUMP
SCUTTLING OFF ACROSS THE ROOM
IN HIS DINNER JACKET,
HOLDING A DRINK, WHICH IS NOW
PRETTY MUCH EMPTY, WHICH
HE'S JUST EMPTIED DOWN HER
BACK AS PAYBACK TO
MARIE BRENNER.
AND... I MEAN, SHE WAS JUST
STUNNED, YOU KNOW, THAT ANYONE
COULD DO SUCH A THING, HONESTLY.
NOW WE KNOW THAT THIS IS VERY
MUCH THE TRUMP OF TODAY.
AND I THINK THAT HE CHANGED OVER
THE YEARS.
I MEAN, I THINK HE GOT MUCH MORE
ANGRY AND DARK AS THE YEARS WENT BY.

Nam says BUT DID YOU GET ANY SENSE BACK
THEN THAT HIS AMBITION WOULD
TAKE HIM THIS FAR?

Tina says WELL, INTERESTINGLY, YOU KNOW,
EVERY YEAR, WE WOULD PUBLISH THE
"HALL OF FAME," WHICH WAS, YOU
KNOW, A COLLECTION OF
PHOTOGRAPHS BY ANNIE LEIBOVITZ
WITH CAPTIONS ABOUT WHY WE'D
CHOSEN THEM, AND THE ONE... WHEN
WE CHOSE DONALD TRUMP IN 1988,
I THINK IT WAS, ONE OF
THE REASONS WE GAVE WAS
BECAUSE... BECAUSE HE THINKS
HE CAN NEGOTIATE ARMS CONTROL
WITH THE RUSSIANS.
AND I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING
WHEN I READ IT.
I THOUGHT WE WERE OBVIOUSLY
GETTING A WHIFF OF HIS DESIRE TO
BE SOME KIND OF A BIGGER, YOU
KNOW, STATESMAN-LIKE FIGURE THAT
I HADN'T THOUGHT OF AT THE TIME.
BUT HE WAS GIVING THAT OFF EVEN
THEN.
SO I THINK THAT WE... WHEN I LOOK
BACK, ACTUALLY, ALL THE SIGNS
WERE THERE THAT THIS IS WHERE HE
WAS HEADED.

NAM SAYS AT THE TIME OF YOUR
DIARIES, YOU LAMENTED THE WAR OF
FAKE NEWS AND THE
RISE OF FOX NEWS.
YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND... HARRY
EVANS... HAVE LONG HAD DEALINGS
WITH RUPERT MURDOCH.
HOW DID MURDOCH FIRST COME INTO
YOUR LIVES?

Tina says WELL, MURDOCH FIRST CAME INTO
OUR LIVES WHEN HE BOUGHT TIMES
NEWSPAPERS IN LONDON.
MY HUSBAND WAS EDITOR-IN-CHIEF
OF
THE SUNDAY TIMES,
AND WAS AT
THAT TIME THE MOST SORT OF
CELEBRATED EDITOR IN THE U.K.
SO, MURDOCH BROUGHT
TIMES
NEWSPAPERS, AND THEN HE ASKED
IF
HARRY WOULD EDIT
THE TIMES
INSTEAD OF
THE SUNDAY TIMES.
THEY WERE SISTER PAPERS, BUT
THEY HAD A COMPLETELY SEPARATE
WAY OF RUNNING.
AND HARRY ACCEPTED WHICH WAS
REALLY AN UNBELIEVABLE
EXPERIENCE.
IT WAS HIS KIND OF HARVEY
WEINSTEIN EXPERIENCE, IF YOU
LIKE, BECAUSE RUPERT MURDOCH
BASICALLY BROKE EVERY SINGLE
PROMISE THAT HE HAD MADE TO THE
BOARD OF
TIMES
NEWSPAPERS, AND
TO HIM, ABOUT EDITORIAL
INDEPENDENCE, ABOUT KEEPING
UNDER THE POLITICAL COVERAGE,
ABOUT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HE
SAID HE WAS GOING TO NOT DO IF
HE BOUGHT
TIMES
NEWSPAPERS,
WHICH WAS THE GREAT JEWEL OF
BRITISH PUBLISHING AT THE TIME.
AND THEN HARRY AND HE HAD A
TREMENDOUS FIGHT ABOUT THAT,
AND HE FIRED HARRY.
AND VERY... IN A BIG SORT OF
NOISY, YOU KNOW... THEY HAD A WEEK
OF KIND OF CONFLICT, AND THEN HE
PRESSURED HARRY TO RESIGN,
AND HARRY DECIDED, YOU KNOW,
THERE WAS NOTHING HE COULD DO
TO FIGHT HIM ANYMORE;
HE HAD TO QUIT.
AND IT WAS A VERY DOWN, SORT OF
TRAUMATIC TIME, ACTUALLY,
IN OUR LIVES, BUT IT REALLY
MADE US UNDERSTAND RUPERT
VERY EARLY ON THAT HE
REALLY WOULD SAY ANYTHING
TO ACQUIRE SOMETHING
THAT HE WANTS.

Nam says WELL, YOU LEFT PUBLISHING, AND
YOU BEGAN SOMETHING CALLED THE
WOMEN IN THE WORLD SUMMITS, A
LIVE INTERVIEW SERIES FOCUSING
ON WOMEN AND WOMEN'S ISSUES.
WHY DO WOMEN NEED THIS KIND OF CONTENT?

The caption changes to "Beyond the glass ceiling."

Tina says WELL, I STARTED THIS IN 2009
BECAUSE I FELT THAT THERE WAS NO
PLATFORM WHERE WOMEN... THESE
GLOBAL WOMEN WHO WERE UNDERGOING
UNBELIEVABLE PRESSURES AND
CHALLENGES COULD ACTUALLY TELL
THEIR STORIES AND GET AMERICAN
WOMEN ENGAGED, BECAUSE THERE'S A
LACK OF INTEREST, IN A WAY, IN
FOREIGN AFFAIRS, PERIOD.
BUT IF YOU MEET THESE WOMEN, IF
YOU KNOW THEM, YOU'LL CARE,
RIGHT?
AND THESE WOMEN ARE FIGHTING,
YOU KNOW, CHILD MARRIAGE;
THEY'RE... IN THEIR
COUNTRIES... THEY'RE FIGHTING, YOU
KNOW, REFUGEE CRISIS; THEY'RE
FIGHTING, YOU KNOW, HONOUR
KILLING; THEY'RE FIGHTING FEMALE
GENITAL MUTILATION;
THEY'RE FIGHTING LACK OF
ACCESS TO EDUCATION.
I MEAN, WOMEN ALL OVER THE WORLD
IN THESE EMERGING COUNTRIES HAVE
TO BE HEROES EVERY SINGLE DAY.
AND I FOUND THAT I KEPT MEETING
AMAZING WOMEN DURING MY WORK AS
A JOURNALIST WHO JUST HAD NO
PLACE TO TELL THEIR STORIES, SO
I THOUGHT HOW GREAT IT WOULD BE
TO START A CONFERENCE... A SUMMIT,
AS WE CALLED IT... WHERE THESE
WOMEN COULD TELL THEIR STORIES,
AND ALSO THE ISSUES THEY TALKED
ABOUT COULD BE SURFACED AND
EXPOSED.
AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE
ONLY STORIES REALLY GALVANIZE
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW?
ONLY THAT CONNECTION YOU MAKE TO
A HUMAN BEING REALLY MAKES YOU
THINK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
THE WORLD.
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE CARE ABOUT
"ISSUES."
YOU KNOW, THEY GO ON THEIR
IPHONES IF THEY HEAR ABOUT
"ISSUES."
WHAT THEY... WHAT REALLY GETS THEM
TO ENGAGE ARE STORY...

NAM SAYS IS PEOPLE AND STORY.

Tina says AND PEOPLE.
AND OUT OF THAT, THEY MAY WELL
BECOME INTERESTED IN THE ISSUE.
AND I FIND THAT ACTUALLY DOES
HAPPEN A LOT, WHERE PEOPLE SAY,
"I WANT TO REALLY KNOW MORE
ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE IT'S SO
INCREDIBLE."
AND THAT WINDOW... YOU OPEN THAT
WINDOW, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE
IT... THE LIGHT IN THE EYES... IS
WHEN YOU OPEN THE WINDOW IN
PEOPLE'S BRAINS, AND YOU'VE GOT
IN.
YOU ACTUALLY MANAGED TO GET IN.
AND IT'S HARDER AND HARDER TO DO
THAT.
BUT... SO WOMEN IN THE WORLD TOOK
OFF IMMEDIATELY ACTUALLY.
I MEAN, HILLARY CLINTON CAME TO
OUR VERY FIRST SUMMIT.
I CO-HOSTED IT WITH MERYL
STREEP.

Nam says AND THIS PAST FEBRUARY, YOU
ACTUALLY INTERVIEWED VIOLA
DAVIS... THE GREAT VIOLA DAVIS.

TINA SAYS YES, IN FACT.
SO NOW WOMEN IN THE WORLD'S
EXPANDED.
NOW WE'RE AT LINCOLN CENTER IN
APRIL.
WE BROUGHT IT TO TORONTO.
WE'RE COMING BACK THIS
SEPTEMBER, WITH THE SUMMIT,
TO TORONTO AGAIN.
DOUBLE THE SIZE.
AND WE'RE SORT OF ALL OVER THE WORLD.
WE BECOME A GLOBAL... A GLOBAL
PHENOMENON NOW AND A NATIONAL
PHENOMENON.
AND ACTUALLY, WE BRING THESE
SMALLER VERSIONS TO DIFFERENT CITIES.
AND WE JUST CAME BACK FROM LA
WHERE WE JUST HAD VIOLA DAVIS,
WHO WAS AMAZING.
AND SHE TALKED SO ELOQUENTLY AND
MOVINGLY ABOUT THE LACK OF
OPPORTUNITIES, FRANKLY, FOR SORT
OF... FOR BLACK ACTRESSES.
AND SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, "PEOPLE
CALL ME THE BLACK MERYL STREEP.
THAT'S GREAT, EXCEPT..."
BUT I WANT TO BE PAID LIKE MERYL STREEP.

TINA SAYS "BUT WHERE ARE MY ROLES?"

Tina says YEAH.
SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, "IF I WAS
THE BLACK MERYL STREEP, I'D HAVE
HAD THAT, YOU KNOW, FILMOGRAPHY
OF ALL OF THOSE ROLES, ALL OF
THOSE MOVIES."
SHE SAID, "I'M LIKE A... WAS AN
OVERNIGHT SENSATION AT 49."
YOU KNOW?

[NAM LAUGHS]

Nam says LET'S SHOW... I HAVE A CLIP OF
THAT CONVERSATION, ACTUALLY.

TINA SAYS YEAH.

Nam SAYS HERE'S VIOLA DAVIS.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "February 13, 2018."
In the clip, Viola Davis sits on a chair on a stage and talks. She's in her early fifties, with curly black hair, and wears a bright red blazer.

She says I LITERALLY GOT TO A CERTAIN
POINT IN MY LIFE WHERE I SAID I
KNOW ONE WOMAN IN MY LIFE... AND I
KNOW A LOT OF WOMEN... WHO'S NEVER
BEEN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED, OK?
IT IS SO STEEPED INTO OUR
CULTURE THAT I... MY FEAR IS THAT
PEOPLE FEEL LIKE IT'S ONLY
HOLLYWOOD, THAT THE PREDATOR IS
THE WEINSTEIN BEHIND A BIG OLD
DESK, YOU KNOW, WHO'S JUST THERE
CONTROLLING THESE WOMEN'S
CAREERS, AND "YOU'RE NOT GOING
TO BE THAT BIG ACTRESS IF YOU
DON'T DO ME THIS FAVOUR,"
WHEN THE PREDATOR IS A FATHER, A
STRANGER, A RABBI, A TEACHER,
YOU KNOW?
YOU CAN GO ON... A BROTHER, A
BABYSITTER.
AND THE SILENCE IS NOT JUST
ABOUT SAVING ONE'S CAREER;
THE SILENCE IS ABOUT THE TRAUMA
THAT WHEN IT HAPPENS YOU HAVE
AN OUT-OF-BODY EXPERIENCE WHERE
YOU'RE... YOU LEAVE YOUR BODY
AND YOU... YOU
COMPARTMENTALIZE THAT PAIN.

The clip ends.

NAM SAYS WHY DO...

TINA SAYS SO AMAZING... SHE'S SO
INCREDIBLE, REALLY.

NAM SAYS SHE'S INCREDIBLE.

Tina says I COULD LISTEN TO HER ALL DAY.
I KNOW, SHE WAS SO MOVING AND
POWERFUL.
AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
THESE WOMEN COME ON OUR STAGE.
I MEAN, THEY FEEL THAT THEY'RE
IN SUCH A SORT OF UNDERSTANDING
SPACE, BECAUSE WE'VE CREATED NOW
THESE... THE ABILITY FOR THEM AND
TO REALLY SAY WHAT THEY THINK.

NAM SAYS AND SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT
SEXUAL HARASSMENT, VIOLENCE.

Tina says YEAH, YEAH.

NAM SAYS WHY DO YOU THINK AFTER SO
LONG THAT THE MISTREATMENT... THE
MISTREATMENT OF WOMEN HAS
FINALLY GAINED SOME TRACTION?

Tina says WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A TIPPING
POINT HAS HAPPENED.
I MEAN, SOME OF IT WAS BECAUSE
TRUMP WON THE ELECTION, AND
THERE WAS A SENSE OF FURY, I
THINK, AMONGST WOMEN ABOUT AFTER
HIS COMMENTS AND SO ON THAT THIS
COULD STILL HAPPEN.
BUT REALLY, I THINK THERE'S BEEN
A... WOMEN HAVE BEEN STALLED FOR
SUCH A LONG TIME, AND THERE'S A
KIND OF BUILDING... THERE'S BEEN A
BUILDING RAGE THAT JUST NEEDED
TO BE... TO BE TIPPED, AND WE SAW
IT AT THE WOMEN'S MARCH IN
JANUARY, LAST YEAR, THAT
YOU... THIS MASSIVE AMOUNT OF
PEOPLE CAME OUT.
I MEAN, IT WAS ACTUALLY THE
BIGGEST ONE-DAY PROTEST IN THE
WHOLE OF AMERICAN HISTORY WAS
THAT WOMEN'S MARCH,
AND IT DIDN'T GO AWAY.
I MEAN, PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE
THOUGHT, "OH, THERE WAS A
WOMEN'S MARCH, AND THEN, WELL,
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?"
WELL, IT WAS JUST GOING ON.
AND THEN WHEN THE HARVEY
WEINSTEIN THING HAPPENED,
IT WAS LIKE ANOTHER
TIPPING POINT.
IT WAS LIKE, "ENOUGH."
AND IT ALWAYS TAKES, YOU KNOW,
SOMEBODY BRAVE TO BREAK THE
SILENCE.
AND ACTUALLY, I THINK IT WAS
ASHLEY JUDD WHO REALLY WAS THE
FIRST TO BE WILLING TO PUT HER
NAME ON IT.
AND I THINK SHE WAS EMBOLDENED
TO DO THAT BY THE ATMOSPHERE OF
THE WOMEN'S MARCH.
YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE THIS
STUFF HAS BEEN EMBOLDENING OTHER
WOMEN SO THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY
BEING GIVEN THE COURAGE TO
SPEAK, WHICH IS A VERY, VERY
EXCITING DEVELOPMENT.

Nam says YOU SAID THAT BECAUSE YOU WERE
THE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, YOU WERE IN
A POSITION OF POWER.
WHEN YOU WERE WORKING WITH
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, HE COULDN'T
REALLY HARASS YOU, BUT HOW DO
YOU THINK LIKE THE TIME'S UP
MOVEMENT IS GOING TO CHANGE THE
SITUATION FOR WOMEN IN... YOU
KNOW, WOMEN WHO ARE DISHWASHERS OR...

Tina says YEAH, IT'S... THIS IS THE CRITICAL
THING IS IS THIS GOING TO REALLY
AFFECT... IS THIS GOING TO REALLY
TRICKLE DOWN AND TRICKLE THROUGH?
AND IT WILL ONLY DO THAT IF
ACTIVISTS AT THE... YOU KNOW, AT
THE GRASSROOTS LEVEL CAN REALLY
KEEP ON PUSHING THIS MOVEMENT IN
A SERIOUS WAY, AND GIVING BOTH
FUNDS LEGALLY AND ENCOURAGEMENT
TO WOMEN TO COME FORWARD WHEN
THEY'RE BEING HARASSED IN THIS
WAY, AND THAT THE COMMUNITY, YOU
KNOW, AND SOCIETY BASICALLY
MAKES IT COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE
FOR ANYONE TO BEHAVE LIKE THIS,
AT WHATEVER LEVEL IN SOCIETY.
AND I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO
BE EASY TO CHANGE.
AND I ALSO FEEL GLOBALLY... YOU
KNOW, I MEAN, IN RUSSIA, FOR
INSTANCE, THE... A LAW WAS JUST,
YOU KNOW, PUSHED BACK THAT
DOMESTIC ABUSE IS NO LONGER A
CRIME IN RUSSIA.
THEY ACTUALLY DID THAT JUST RECENTLY.
THEY'VE SAID, "NO, IT'S GOING
TO... IT'S JUST GOING TO BE A FINE
IF YOU BEAT UP YOUR WIFE."
I MEAN, IT'S INCONCEIVABLE TO US
THAT YOU WILL JUST BE FINED IF
YOU BEAT UP YOUR WIFE, BUT THAT
IS A RULE NOW IN RUSSIA.
SO, THIS MOVEMENT HAS TO BE KEPT UP.
IT'S ABOUT SUSTAINING THE
PERSISTENCE, AND TO REALLY
HAVING THE WOMEN OF PROMINENCE,
YOU KNOW, SHINING THE LIGHT ON
THE WOMEN WHO DO NOT HAVE THAT
KIND OF ACCESS TO THE LIMELIGHT.
AND THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN WHAT WE
DID AT WOMEN IN THE WORLD.
YOU KNOW, WE WOULD HAVE THE
HILLARY CLINTONS OR THE CATE
BLANCHETTS OR THE ANGELINA
JOLIES, BUT ACTUALLY, THEY WERE
REALLY THERE FOR THE OTHER WOMEN
WHO WERE LESS FAMOUS BUT WHO
ACTUALLY HAD THE INCREDIBLE
STORIES TO TELL, AND IT WAS
THOSE WOMEN THAT YOU LEAVE THE
THEATRE TALKING ABOUT.

NAM SAYS TINA BROWN, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR BEING HERE...

Tina says THANK YOU...

The caption changes to "Producer: Sandra Gionas, @sandragionas."

Nam says AND FOR BEING A TRAILBLAZER
AND FOR SHOWING US THAT WITH
HARD WORK AND DETERMINATION,
YOUR DREAMS CAN COME TRUE.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Tina says THANK YOU, NAM.

NAM SAYS THANK YOU.

Tina says IT'S BEEN REALLY FUN.

Watch: A Celebrated Editor