Transcript: Families of Condoland | Feb 28, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and checked blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "The families of condoland. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says FOR MANY IN THIS
PROVINCE, THE DECISION TO START
A FAMILY HAS OFTEN MEANT IT'S
ALSO TIME TO BUY A HOUSE.
BUT IN THE ATMOSPHERE OF
SKY-HIGH REAL ESTATE PRICES,
THAT'S CHANGING.
JOINING US NOW FOR THEIR TAKE ON
CONDO LIFE... FOR FAMILIES...
TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IT IN
THE PROVINCIAL CAPITAL:
JACKIE BURNS, PARENT, FREELANCE
WRITER AND AUTHOR OF "THE CONDO
KIDS," A SERIES OF CHILDREN'S BOOKS...

Jackie is in her thirties, with long wavy auburn hair. She's wearing a flowery red blouse.

Steve continues AND ELLE GADSBY, CONDO RESIDENT
AND PARENT.

Elle is in her thirties, with long straight blond hair. She's wearing glasses and a dark gray shirt.

Steve continues IT'S GOOD TO WELCOME YOU TWO
CONDO DWELLERS TO OUR LITTLE
TABLE HERE AT TVO.
JACKIE, WHY WOULD ANYBODY CHOOSE
TO LIVE IN A CONDO BESIDES, YOU
KNOW, THE OBVIOUS, YOU CAN'T
AFFORD A HOUSE?

The caption changes to "Jackie Burns. Author, 'The condo kids.'"
Then, it changes again to "Dreaming of downsizing."

Jackie says THERE'S A LOT
OF UPSIDE SURPRISES TO CONDO
LIVING THAT ONE MIGHT NOT FIRST
IMAGINE.

Steve says EVEN WITH KIDS?

Jackie says WITH KIDS ESPECIALLY,
ACTUALLY.
I GREW UP IN A HOUSE AND I LOVED
THAT AND MY HUSBAND GREW UP IN A
HOUSE, HE HAD THE GREAT
EXPERIENCE AS WELL.
BOTH OF US ASSUMED WE WOULD
RAISE OUR KIDS IN A HOUSE, AND
WE LOVED THE CONDO LIFESTYLE SO
MUCH FOR US THAT WE KEPT PUTTING
IT OFF AND DIDN'T WANT THE
RESPONSIBILITY OF A HOUSE, AND
ONCE WE HAD KIDS IN A HOUSE, WE
REALIZED THEY LOVED IT AS MUCH
AS WE DID.
WE DIDN'T HAVE TO CONVINCE THEM.
THERE'S AN ACTIVE LIFESTYLE THEY
MAY NOT HAVE IN A HOUSE.
THEY HAVE FRIENDS IN THE
BUILDING, THEY'RE CONSTANTLY
PLAYING TOGETHER.
SWIMMING LESSONS WITH THEIR
FRIENDS.
THEY HAVE AN INDOOR SQUASH COURT
WHERE THEY'LL PLAY INDOOR
HOCKEY.
WE HAVE A HIP-HOP DANCE
INSTRUCTOR THAT COMES IN ON
FRIDAY NIGHTS.

Steve says THIS IS ALL IN THE CONDO?

Jackie says ALL IN THE CONDO.
A LOT HAVE AMENITIES FOR
FAMILIES TO BE MORE ACTIVE WITH
OUR KIDS.
THERE'S OBVIOUSLY THE SAFETY
ISSUE TOO.

Steve says THE SAFETY ISSUE
MEANING?

Jackie says YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY FOR
INSTANCE IF MY HUSBAND TRAVELS,
FOR WORK, I'M NOT SLEEPING WITH ONE EYE OPEN.
AND I FEEL A LOT MORE SAFE IN A
CONDO, AND I FEEL SAFE ALLOWING
MY KIDS TO GO AROUND THE CONDO AND MEET THEIR FRIENDS, GO
TO THE CONVENIENCE STORE AND
PICK UP MILK FOR ME, ANYTHING
LIKE THAT I FEEL.

Steve says BECAUSE YOU GOT A
SECURITY PERSON
AT THE FRONT DESK? THAT KIND OF THING OK.
DID YOU START IN A HOUSE?

Elle says WE DID.
THIS IS ACTUALLY MY FIRST CONDO.

Steve says THIS IS NOW.
AND HOW IS IT GOING?

Elle says IT IS WONDERFUL.

Steve says HOW COME?

The caption changes to "Elle Gadsby. Condo Resident."

Elle says SEVERAL REASONS.
WE WERE KIND OF GOLDILOCKS.
WE TRIED THE BIG HOUSE, WE TRIED
THE SMALL HOUSE, WE TRIED THE
SUBURBS, WE TRIED THE CITY.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF
WORK WITH A HOUSE, AND WE'RE
DEFINITELY THE SANDWICH
GENERATION.
OUR PARENTS ARE STAYING IN THEIR
HOUSES LONGER WITH I REQUIRE A
LOT OF MAINTENANCE, AND BOTH MY
HUSBAND AND I WORK.
HE TRAVELS A LOT.
SO YOU'RE KIND OF RUNNING FROM
ONE HOUSE TO ANOTHER TO MAINTAIN
IT, AND WE HAD TOSSED AROUND THE
IDEA.
WE THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE WHEN OUR
DAUGHTER IS GETTING TO BE INTO
HIGH SCHOOL, WE'RE SORT OF
THINKING ABOUT IT FOR WHEN SHE
LEAVES FOR UNIVERSITY, BUT, YOU
KNOW, WHY WAIT?
WE KIND OF KEPT SORT OF CIRCLING
BACK TO IT AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD
GONE OUT WITH OUR AGENT A COUPLE
OF TIMES TO LOOK AT SOME NEW
BUILDS.
WE LOOKED AT SOME, YOU KNOW, AND
KEPT NOT QUITE FEELING RIGHT AND
THEN ABOUT A YEAR AGO, WE LOOKED
AT AN OLDER BUILDING AND WE WERE
LIKE, THIS IS IT.
WE NEED TO JUST TAKE THE LEAD.
IF YOU KEEP CYCLING BACK TO
SOMETHING, IT MUST MEAN
SOMETHING.
THIS IS NOT WHERE OUR COMFORT
LEVEL IS, AND WE SHOULD JUST TRY
THIS.
AND IT HAS BEEN FANTASTIC.

Steve says HOW OLD WAS YOUR
DAUGHTER WHEN YOU MOVED INTO THE
CONDO?

Elle says SHE WAS TEN.
JUST TURNED 11.

Steve says JUST TURNED 11.
GOING FROM HOUSE TO CONDO AND
SHE IS 11.
WHAT KIND OF A PEP
TALK OR SPEECH DID YOU HAVE TO
GIVE HER THAT TOLD HER YOU'RE
REALLY GOING TO LIKE THIS, DON'T
WORRY?

Elle says SHE HAD BEEN WITH US TO... WE
KEPT HER VERY INVOLVED IN THE
PROCESS BECAUSE WHEN YOU ONLY
HAVE ONE KID, YOU KNOW, THEY
BECOME LITTLE ADULTS IN SOME
WAYS.
SO SHE HAD BEEN TO SEE SOME OF
THE FLOOR PLAN UNITS AND, YOU
KNOW, CAME WITH US TO VIEW THESE
ONES.
IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE HARDEST
THING TO CONVINCE AN 11-YEAR-OLD
WHEN THEY SEE THAT THERE'S A
POOL.
THAT'S A BIG SELLING FEATURE FOR
AN 11-YEAR-OLD.

Steve says ANY OTHER AMENITIES
AS WELL?

Elle says WE DO HAVE SQUASH COURTS.
WE'RE IN THE SAME BUILDING.
POOL AND SQUASH COURTS AND A
PING PONG TABLE.
SO LOTS OF AMENITIES.
AND SHE'S OLD ENOUGH SHE CAN GO
TO THOSE AMENITIES... NOT THE
POOL BUT THE OTHER ONES BY
HERSELF.
SO SHE HAS A BIT OF FREEDOM,
WHICH IS LOVELY.
THERE'S A FAIRLY LARGE YARD
OUTSIDE.
SO SHE DOES GET TO GO OUT AND
PLAY AND RUN WITH THE DOG.
WE'RE RIGHT ON THE WATER, RIGHT
ON THE WATERFRONT TRAIL.
SO THINGS LIKE, EVEN COMFORT
LEVEL WITH HER SCOOTERING OR
BIKING AROUND THE CITY, WHERE I
USED TO LIVE, I WAS ALWAYS
AFRAID THAT SHE WOULD GET HIT BY
A CAR BECAUSE THAT'S A REAL
PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IN TORONTO.

Steve says FOR SURE.

Elle says I DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT NOW.
SHE CAN GO ON THE WATERFRONT
TRAIL AND IT'S FINE.
I CAN SEE HER FROM THE WINDOW.

Steve says THERE IS A THING,
JACKIE.
YOU TWO ARE GOING AGAINST A
STEREOTYPE, WHICH IS YOU JUST
DON'T BRING UP KIDS IN A
CONDOMINIUM IN DOWNTOWN TORONTO,
OR DOWNTOWN ANYWHERE, FOR THAT
MATTER.
THAT'S A THING.
HOW DO YOU... WHEN YOU TALK TO
YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THIS KIND OF
STUFF, WHO DON'T LIVE IN CONDOS,
THEY LIVE IN HOMES, AND THEY
LOOK AT YOU SIDEWAYS SAYING,
THIS CAN'T POSSIBLY WORK...

Jackie says I THINK THEY
GET IT WHEN THEY COME TO VISIT
US AND I THINK THEIR KIDS LOVE
TO COME AND HANG OUT WITH THE
OTHER CONDO KIDS IN THE
BUILDING.
WE'RE THE ONLY FAMILY IN OUR
GROUP OF FRIENDS THAT LIVE IN A
CONDO.
THEY CAN DEFINITELY SEE THE
BENEFITS WHEN THEY VISIT US.

Steve says IT DOESN'T FEEL TOO
CRAMPED?

Jackie says WE LIVE IN AN OLDER BUILDING
THAT HAS LARGER UNITS.
THAT'S DEFINITELY A BIG
DIFFERENCE.
A LOT OF FAMILIES I SPEAK TO AS
PART OF MY JOB AS A WRITER, I
TALK ABOUT PEOPLE LIVING IN THE
CITY AND THE PEOPLE I'VE SPOKEN
TO THAT LIVE IN CONDOS SAY THAT
THE SPACE IS OUTSIDE OF THEIR
BUILDING, THE PARKS, THE
COMMUNITY CENTRES, ALL THOSE
AREAS ARE AN EXTENSION OF THEIR
LIVING ROOMS, AS WELL AS THE
COMMON SPACES WITHIN THE CONDO.
SO THE SPACE THEY ACTUALLY LIVE
IN IS ONE ASPECT OF THEIR LIFESTYLE.

Steve says ELLE, THIS MAY BE
OLD FASHIONED THINKING OR
OLD-FASHIONED CONVENTIONAL
WISDOM, BUT THE NOTION OF A
NEIGHBOURHOOD, OF HOMES,
PARTICULARLY IF YOU'VE GOT A
CUL-DE-SAC AND EVERYBODY IS
PLAYING ROAD HOCKEY, THAT KIND
OF THING, IT'S QUITE ENGRAINED
IN OUR MEMORIES AND, YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE MAY KNOW THEIR
NEIGHBOURS.
THE NOTION OF LIVING IN A
CONDOMINIUM WHERE, I GUESS, THE
STEREOTYPICAL STORY IS, YOU
DON'T KNOW YOUR NEIGHBOURS
BECAUSE EVERYBODY KIND OF LIVES
ON THEIR OWN, IS THAT NOT THE
CASE ANYMORE?

Elle says I WOULD SAY
IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN THE COMPLETE
REVERSE FOR US.

Steve says REALLY?

Elle says WE LIVED IN A NEIGHBOURHOOD
HERE IN TORONTO THAT HAD SOME
LARGER HOUSES.
I KNEW MY IMMEDIATE NEXT DOOR
NEIGHBOURS ON EITHER SIDE OF ME
AND THAT WAS IT.
WE DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF KIDS IN
THE IMMEDIATE AREA.
NOT IN THE HOUSES CLOSE ENOUGH
TO US THAT MY DAUGHTER COULD
IMMEDIATELY MEET THEM.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DIDN'T
HAVE MUCH OF A COMMUNITY THERE,
AND WE MOVED INTO OUR BUILDING
AND WE ACTUALLY RENOVATED OUR
UNIT FIRST.
SO WE WERE IN AND OUT
CONSTANTLY.
OUR NEIGHBOURS ALREADY HAD COME
AND INTRODUCED THEMSELVES.
EVERYBODY ON MY FLOOR INTRODUCED
THEMSELVES...

Steve says YOU'VE GOT TO TELL
ME HOW THAT HAPPENS.

Jackie says I DON'T THINK
IT IS UNUSUAL.

Steve says HANG ON.
I'M GOING TO PUSH BACK.
IF YOU'RE OUT WALKING YOUR DOG
ON A BEAUTIFUL DAY, FOR EXAMPLE,
THAT'S WHEN YOU MEET YOUR
NEIGHBOURS WHEN EVERYBODY LIVES
IN A HOUSE.
YOU'RE NOT OUT WALKING YOUR DOG
IN THE HALLWAY?

The caption changes to "Jackie Burns, @CallMeBurnsie."

Jackie says YOU'RE IN THE COMMON AREAS,
YOU'RE IN THE ELEVATOR EVERY DAY
WITH THESE PEOPLE, YOU'RE
WAITING IN A LOBBY FOR A FRIEND,
YOU SEE THEM IN THE POOL OR THE
COURTYARD.
YOU'RE SEEING THEM CONSTANTLY,
MAYBE MORE THAN YOU WOULD IF YOU
WERE ON A STREET?

Steve says YOU'VE MADE FRIENDS?

Jackie says I'VE MADE FRIENDS.
WHAT I LOVE ABOUT IT IS MY SON
LOVES DOGS.
I'M NOT AT THE POINT WHERE I'M
GOING TO GIVE HIM A PET YET.
HE STARTED HIS OWN DOG WALKING
SERVICE IN THE CONDO.
HE'S 10, GOING ON 11.
HE'S AN ENTREPRENEUR.
HE WANTED TO START A PAPER
ROUTE.
HE DECIDED HE'S GOING TO BE A
DOG WALKER-SITTER.
HE MET THESE PEOPLE THROUGH A
FLYER HE POSTED IN THE CONDO
MAIL ROOM.
HE HAS A GENTLEMAN IN HIS 90s
WHO CALLS HIM ALMOST EVERY NIGHT
TO TAKE HIS DOG OUT AND MY SON
HAS THIS GREAT CONVERSATION WITH
THIS, INTERGENERATIONAL BONDING.
HE WALKS A DOG FOR A COUPLE THAT
GOES TO CHURCH THAT ARE RETIRED.
THEY LOVE SEEING THE YOUNG KIDS...

Steve says YOU HAVE THREE
BREADWINNERS IN THE CONDO.

Jackie says I WANT TO PUT THEM TO WORK.

Steve says LET'S READ THIS HERE.
THIS IS FROM A RECENT STUDY LAST
YEAR CALLED BEDROOMS IN THE SKY,
THIS IS THE RYERSON CITY
BUILDING INSTITUTE, WHICH SAYS AS FOLLOWS...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Compromise in the community." The quote reads "As millennials get older and seek larger spaces, and baby boomers downsize from detached houses, we will need housing units that meet the needs and economic realities of these important demographic cohorts."
Quoted from Ryerson City Building Institute, "Bedrooms in the sky." 2017.

Steve says DOES A CONDO
COMMUNITY, IN YOUR VIEW, SATISFY
THE DIFFERENT NEEDS OF THESE TWO
VERY DIFFERENT GENERATIONS?

The caption changes to "Shared space."

Elle says ABSOLUTELY.
I WOULD SAY OUR BUILDING IS A
PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT.
IT DID SKEW I THINK A LOT OLDER,
AND WE SEE IN OUR BUILDING A LOT
OF... THERE ARE A FAIR NUMBER OF
PEOPLE WHO HAVE CARETAKERS IN
OUR BUILDING WHO COME IN.
SO THE UNITS, PEOPLE ARE STAYING
IN THEM LONGER.
THERE ARE FAMILIES, BECAUSE THE
UNITS AGAIN, IT'S AN OLDER
BUILDING, THEY'RE BUILT WITH
FAMILIES IN MIND.
AND SO IN SOME WAYS OUR BUILDING
IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU
CAN CREATE A COMMUNITY THAT CAN
SERVICE A FAMILY FROM THE TIME
YOU HAVE CHILDREN IN DIAPERS
TILL PEOPLE, YOU KNOW... I THINK
THERE ARE PEOPLE IN OUR
BUILDING, THEY DON'T EVEN LEAVE
FOR A NURSING HOME.
THEY LIVE OUT THEIR LIVES IN
THIS COMMUNITY.
AND THE COMMUNITY IS VERY
SUPPORTIVE OF THEM WITHIN THE
BUILDING.
SO I THINK IT'S ENTIRELY
POSSIBLE.

Steve says HOW TALL IS THE
BUILDING?

Elle says 46 STORIES.

Steve says 46 STOREYS.
THIS IS NOT A SMALL CONDO.

Elle says NOT A SMALL CONDO.

Steve says SO YOU HAVE
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LIVING
THERE.

Elle says YEAH.

Steve says YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY
KNOW 5 percent OF THEM, COULD YOU?

Jackie says I THINK WE DO.
BECAUSE IT'S AN OLDER BUILDING,
THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF SORT OF...
THEY'LL DO AN ELVIS IMPERSONATOR
NIGHT WHERE THEY HAVE ALL THE
OLDER RESIDENTS IN THE BUILDING
WHO LOVE THAT COME TOGETHER WITH
THE YOUNG KIDS AND THEY'RE
LEARNING HOW TO DO THE HIP
THRUST.
THESE TWO COMMUNITIES COMING
TOGETHER.
IT'S REALLY COOL.
YOU MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE IN
RANDOM WAYS OVER THE YEARS.

Steve says I LIVED IN A CONDO
ONCE UPON A TIME TOO.
WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THIS KIND
OF PROGRAMMING AND WE DIDN'T
HAVE THE ATHLETIC FACILITIES YOU
HAVE, IT WAS A SMALLER PLACE.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT DOES BEG THE
QUESTION: ARE YOU GUYS LIVING IN
AN ANOMALOUS SITUATION?

Jackie says I'VE SPOKEN TO A LOT OF CONDO
FAMILIES AS PART OF MY WRITING
FOR THE STAR AND I'M SEEING A
LOT OF THESE SAME TYPES OF
THINGS HAPPENING.
THEY'RE HAVING FAMILIES WHO ARE
DOING BABYSITTING SWAPS IN THEIR
CONDO WITH OTHER CONDO PARENTS
THEY'VE FOUND.
ONE FAMILY TOLD ME ABOUT HAVING
A LIBRARIAN COME INTO THE
BUILDING TO READ TO THEIR CONDO
KIDS AND THEY SIGN OUT BOOKS IN
THE LOCAL LIBRARY, EASTER EGG
HEIGHTS, COMMUNAL BARBECUE
NIGHTS WHERE THE KIDS ALL PLAY
AND THE PARENTS TALK.
THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT AN
ANOMALY.
I THINK IT'S HAPPENING MORE AND
MORE ACROSS THE TOWERS IN THE
CITY FOR SURE.

The caption changes to "Watch us on Facebook Live: Weekdays at 8 PM."

Steve says THIS IS AN OLDER
BUILDING YOU LIVE IN, RIGHT?
DID YOU LOOK AT A NEW BUILDING
WHEN YOU FIRST CONSIDERED IT?

Elle says WE LOOKED AT
FLOOR PLANS AND SOME OF THE
UNITS IN SOME OF THE OLDER
BUILDINGS, AND I THINK ONE OF
THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IS A LOT OF
NEWER BUILDINGS ARE JUST NOT
BUILT FOR FAMILIES.
YOU WALK INTO A BUILDING AND
MOST OF THE UNITS CAP OUT AT 800
OR 900 SQUARE FEET AND MAYBE
THERE'S TWO THAT ARE 1500 SQUARE
FEET.
AND I THINK THAT'S A FAILURE OF
PLANNING.
YOU CAN'T HAVE A COMMUNITY IN
THAT KIND OF SITUATION BECAUSE A
LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MOVE
IN WHEN THEY'RE SINGLE, MAYBE
NEWLY MARRIED, AND THEN IT IN
TURN BECOMES A CHICKEN AND EGG
PROBLEM, I CAN'T RAISE A FAMILY
IN THIS, SO YOU LEAVE.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF TURNOVER IN
THOSE BUILDINGS AND AIRBNB...

Steve says WHERE IS THE CHICKEN
AND EGG HERE?
THE MARKET HAS TO DEMONSTRATE A
DESIRE FOR FAMILY CONDO
ACCOMMODATION OR DEVELOPERS
AREN'T GOING TO BUILD THEM,
RIGHT?
SO IS THERE IN FACT A DESIRE
AMONG FAMILIES?

Elle says I THINK SO.

Steve says INCREASINGLY TO LIVE
IN THESE KINDS OF PLACES?

Elle says I THINK SO.
I SEE IN MY GENERATION AND EVEN
MORE SO IN THE GENERATION...
LIKE, WE WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH
TO BUY A HOUSE IN TORONTO WHEN
IT WAS STILL VIABLE TO BUY A
HOUSE IN TORONTO.
BUT I KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE ARE
COMING IN JUST BEHIND US, YOU
KNOW, MY BROTHER AND
SISTER-IN-LAW, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
ARE PUSHING THEIR FINANCES TO
THE VERY UPPER LIMIT OF WHAT
THEY CAN MANAGE TO HAVE A SHOE
BOX IN LESLIEVILLE OR BLOOR
WEST, THEY'RE FINDING THE GOOD
NEIGHBOURHOODS BECAUSE THEY WANT
THEIR KIDS TO GO TO A GOOD
SCHOOL.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A TIME WHEN
INTEREST RATES ARE PROBABLY
GOING TO GO UP AND THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE MY AGE AND
YOUNGER HAVE NEVER DEALT WITH IN
THEIR LIFE.
AND I THINK THAT AS THAT
HAPPENS, IT IS GOING TO
NATURALLY PUSH THOSE PEOPLE TO
LOOK FOR ACCOMMODATIONS THAT
CAN... THAT ARE AFFORDABLE.

Steve says ONE DOES HEAR,
JACKIE, ABOUT MAINTENANCE FEES
THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO
FREE LUNCH OUT THERE, RIGHT?
SO YOU DO HAVE A BOARD THAT SETS
MAINTENANCE FEES AND YOU HAVE TO
PAY THOSE MAINTENANCE FEES AND
THAT TAKES CARE OF ALL THE SNOW
SHOVELLING AND ALL THE OTHER
STUFF THAT YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO
DO.
HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT THAT
STUFF... THAT'S A LINE ON YOUR
BUDGET THAT'S TOTALLY OUTSIDE
YOUR CONTROL.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Jackie says WELL, I'VE
LIVED IN CONDOS SINCE THE YEAR
2000, AND THEY HAVEN'T INCREASED
IN ANY OF THE BUILDINGS I'VE
LIVED IN.
I THINK I'VE LIVED IN FOUR
BUILDINGS.
THEY HAVEN'T INCREASED BEYOND
THE, YOU KNOW, ANNUAL INCREASE.
WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY SPECIAL
ASSESSMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE
THAT.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY EASIER, I FIND,
TO WORK IT INTO YOUR BUDGET,
BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE
GOING TO HAVE EVERY MONTH...

Steve says BUT THAT IS THE CONCERN...

Jackie says IT IS A CONCERN IF YOUR
MAINTENANCE FEES ARE SUPER LOW
WHEN YOU SIGN ON AND THEY RAISE
THEM.
I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING YOU
HAVE TO LOOK AT.

Steve says OR SOMETHING HAPPENS
WITH THE HEATING SYSTEM IN THE
BUILDING AND SUDDENLY YOU FIND
YOURSELF WITH A 25,000 dollar...

Jackie says IT'S THE SAME IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE.

The caption changes to "Choosing a low maintenance life."

Elle says WE DID THAT AS
PART OF OUR BUDGETING ASSESSMENT
FOR MOVING FROM A HOUSE TO A
CONDO IS I SAT DOWN WITH OUR
BUDGET AND I ADDED UP WHAT WE
SPEND ON A HOUSE IN THE CITY OF
TORONTO FOR A YEAR, AND IT WAS
SHOCKING BECAUSE IF YOU... JUST
DOING THE BASICS OF HEATING, YOU
KNOW, ELECTRICAL, YOUR TAXES,
AND THEN YOU STARTED TO TACK ON
THE PROJECTS YOU KNOW YOU HAVE
TO DO EVERY YEAR.
ONE YEAR IT WAS OUR FOUNDATION.
WE KNEW THAT THE ROOF WAS GOING
TO NEED TO BE REPLACED.

Steve says FOR SURE.

Elle says AND WHEN YOU START TO ADD
THAT UP, AND MOST PEOPLE I DON'T
THINK REALLY DO THE HARD NUMBERS
OF WHAT DO YOU SPEND ON YOUR
YARD?
DO YOU PUT IN ANNUALS EVERY
YEAR?
DO YOU GO AND SPEND 500 dollars AT THE
NURSERY?
AND WHEN YOU START TO ADD THAT
ALL UP, SUDDENLY CONDO FEES
DON'T LOOK TERRIBLE AND WE
CERTAINLY COULDN'T HAVE PUT A
POOL IN OUR BACK YARD FOR OUR
MAINTENANCE FEES.

Steve says GOOD POINT.
HERE IS ADRIENNE COOK, A
VANCOUVER AUTHOR, HAS A BOOK
"FIVE KIDS, ONE CONDO."
SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD?

A quote appears on screen, under the title "You don't need a house for a home." The quote reads "Single purpose rooms are a waste of space. Every bedroom can be used during the day as well, the dining room table is covered in craft paper and used throughout the day. Our 32 square feet in-suite storage unit has been turned into a 'Maker lab' that the kids 3D print and game in. The idea is not to have single purpose spaces, but to use every space maximally throughout the day and night."
Quoted from Adrian Crook, via email. February 26, 2018.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Jackie says WELL, HE
SHOULD SEE OUR SPARE BEDROOM.
THAT'S WHERE ALL THE HOCKEY
EQUIPMENT IS RIGHT NOW.
YOU COULDN'T WANT TO GO IN
THERE.

Steve says SO YOU CAN RELATE TO THIS?

Jackie says I CAN.
WE DO USE A LOT OF OUR ROOMS
FOR... OUR LIVING ROOM RIGHT NOW
IS PILED FULL OF LEGO FOR MY SON
AND HOMEWORK AND LIKE MOST
HOUSES WOULD BE, THOUGH.
DEFINITELY YOU DON'T GET A
GARAGE, YOU DON'T HAVE A
BASEMENT TO THROW A LOT OF THIS
STUFF IN.
YOU HAVE TO BE A LOT MORE
MINDFUL OF WHAT YOU'RE BRINGING
IN.

Steve says YOU HAVE TO EMBRACE
THE MINIMALIST LIFESTYLE, WOULD
YOU GO THAT FAR?

Jackie says FOR SURE.

Elle says I THINK SO.
WE'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO LIVE
IN I WOULD CALL IT A VERY
COMFORTABLE FAMILY-SIZED SPACE.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Steve says HOW MANY SQUARE FEET
DO YOU HAVE?

Elle says A LOT.
THREE BEDROOMS.

Steve says 2,000 SQUARE FEET?

Elle says A BIT MORE THAN THAT.
IT'S COMPARABLE TO A HOUSE.
WHAT I WOULD SAY IS YOU LOSE
YOUR BASEMENT.
AND MOST PEOPLE'S BASEMENT
BECOMES AN ENTIRE FLOOR OF
STORAGE.
I KNOW IT DID IN OUR OLD HOUSE.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT LIVING
MINIMALLY, IT'S NOT REALLY.
BECAUSE A LOT OF THAT STUFF WE
DON'T KEEP IN OUR HOUSE IS NOT
THE STUFF THAT EVER APPEARED IN
YOUR LIVING ROOM ANYWAYS.
IT WAS, OH, WE HAVE THIS THING
THAT WE WERE GIVEN BY, YOU KNOW,
GREAT AUNT BETTY.
SHOULD WE KEEP IT?
NO, WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT IN THE
BASEMENT AND WE'LL STORE IT
THERE.

Steve says TO BE HONEST.
YOU LIVED IN A HOUSE, RIGHT?

Elle says I DID.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU MISS
MOST ABOUT LIVING IN A HOUSE?

Elle says REALLY?

Steve says YOU CAN'T THINK OF
ANYTHING?

Elle says NOTHING.

Steve says REALLY?

Elle says NOTHING.
I THINK THE ONLY THING I WOULD
SAY I MISS IN THE HOUSE IS THE
DAYS WHERE YOU COME HOME AND YOU
JUST DON'T WANT TO TALK TO
ANYBODY AT ALL AND YOU MAY END
UP IN THE ELEVATOR WITH SOMEBODY.

Jackie says WITH ME.

Elle says WITH YOU, FOR EXAMPLE.
YES, THERE IS A FORCED
PROXIMITY.
THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU'RE
REALLY ANNOYED AT SOMETHING YOUR
CHILD HAS DONE AND YOU'RE READY
TO GIVE IT TO THEM BUT YOU'RE IN
THE ELEVATOR, SO YOU'VE GOT TO
BUTTON IT UNTIL YOU GET IN THE
DOOR.

Steve says SPEAKING OF
WHICH, ELEVATORS, RIGHT?
ELEVATORS? GET GOOD OR ARE
ELEVATORS BAD?

Jackie says THERE NOT TERRIBLE IT COULD BE WORSE.

Steve says WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WITH.

Jackie says ACTUALLY YA ONCE MY SON WAS A
BABY AND HE NEEDED TO BE FED SO
SO HE JUST NEEDED TO BE FED.

Steve says AT THAT MOMENT IN THE
ELEVATOR. HOW MANY STORIES
UP ARE YOU?

Jackie says I'M 30.
SO IT TAKE'S A WHILE.
YA.
YOU COULDN'T WAIT.
THERE YOU GO.
THE COOL PART IS YOU MEET OTHER
PEOPLE AND SOMETIMES YOU
DO WANT YOUR PRIVACY AND YOU WANT TO GO OUT AND BBQ
IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN A CONDO.

Steve says THAT'S TRUE, BBQ IS A
DIFFERENT THING.
THERE ARE PROBABLY
100,000 PEOPLE MOVING INTO THE
CAPITAL CITY OF THIS PROVINCE
EVERY YEAR.
100,000.
AND THEY NEED SOMEWHERE TO LIVE.
SO WE'RE GOING TO GET MORE CONDO
TOWERS AND WE'RE GOING TO GET
MORE INTENSIFICATION,
PARTICULARLY DOWNTOWN.
GOOD, BAD, INDIFFERENT?
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW?

The caption changes to "Intensification in the neighbourhood."

Jackie says I THINK PEOPLE DEFINITELY
NEED TO ACCOMMODATE WITH THIS
WITH MORE PARK SPACE FOR KIDS,
YOU'RE GOING TO NEED MORE
COMMUNITY CENTRES AND LIBRARIES
AND SCHOOLS BECAUSE THESE KIDS
ARE GOING TO NEED AND THESE
FAMILIES ARE GOING TO NEED
AMENITIES IN THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK THAT'S ALREADY BEING
DONE WITH THE CITY.
FOR SURE THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO BE
DONE.

Steve says YOU HAVE ALL THAT
STUFF AROUND WHERE YOU LIVE?

Jackie says WE DO HAVE LIKE A SPLASH PAD DOWN THE WAY.
WE HAVE A LIBRARY NOT TOO FAR
AWAY FROM US.
BUT DEFINITELY WE'RE IN NEED OF
THAT IN OUR COMMUNITY.
WE DEFINITELY COULD USE A
COMMUNITY CENTRE.
WE DON'T HAVE ONE THAT'S RIGHT
IN OUR NEIGHBOURHOOD.

Steve says IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU
HAVE ONE IN THE BUILDING,
THOUGH.
SORT OF.

Jackie says WE KIND OF DO.

Steve says SORT OF.
HOW ABOUT YOU?

Elle says I DEFINITELY THINK THAT...

Steve says INTENSIFICATION.
IT'S COMING.

Elle says ABSOLUTELY.
TORONTO HAS BEEN UNIQUE AND AN
OUTLIER IN CITIES IN THAT CONDOS
HAVEN'T BEEN THE NORM THE SAME
WAY.
YOU LIVE IN MANHATTAN, YOU DON'T
EXPECT TO LIVE IN A HOUSE.
LONDON, YOU DON'T EXPECT TO LIVE
IN A HOUSE.
SO I THINK THAT OUR TIME HAS
COME.
IT'S GREAT.
IT SHOWS THAT WE'RE A WORLD
CLASS CITY NOW AND THAT COMES
WITH SOME CHANGES.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
INTENSIFICATION.
I JUST THINK THAT THE CITY AND
THE PROVINCE REALLY HAVE TO BE
INVOLVED IN MAKING SURE, YOU
KNOW, THAT DEVELOPERS DON'T HAVE
THE UPPER HAND IN IT.
THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT 15
NEW BUILDINGS DOWN ON THE HUMBER
SHORES, MAYBE YOU MAKE SURE
THERE IS TRANSIT AND SCHOOLS
THERE TO SUPPORT THAT AND NOT
WAIT UNTIL THEY'RE BUILT AND
THEN SAY, OH, WELL, OOPS.
YOU KNOW?

The caption changes to "Producer: Jane Burke, @jburketweets."

Steve says OKAY.
WE LEARNED A LOT TODAY.
JACKIE BURNS, ELLE GADSBY,
THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING IN TO
TVO TONIGHT.
I WAS GOING TO SAY ENJOY YOUR
CONDO LIFESTYLES, BUT YOU
CLEARLY ALREADY ARE .THANKS MUCH.

Both guests say THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Watch: Families of Condoland