Transcript: A Northern and Rural Appeal to Newcomers | Feb 12, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and spotted blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "A northern and rural appeal to newcomers. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says AFFORDABLE HOUSING,
JOB OPPORTUNITIES, GORGEOUS
COUNTRYSIDE AND WIDE OPEN
SPACES.
NORTHERN AND RURAL ONTARIO HAVE
A GOOD STORY TO TELL.
BUT EVERY YEAR, AS MORE THAN A
HUNDRED THOUSAND NEWCOMERS LAND
IN ONTARIO LOOKING FOR A FRESH
START, THEY MOSTLY DON'T SEIZE
THE PROSPECTS OUTSIDE THE
SOUTHERN, URBANIZED PARTS OF THE
PROVINCE.
JOINING US TO CONSIDER WHY THEY
SHOULD:
IN SAULT STE. MARIE, ONTARIO,
VIA SKYPE:
CHRISTIAN PROVENZANO, MAYOR OF
SAULT STE. MARIE.

Christian is in his forties, clean-shaven, with receding brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit over a white shirt.

Steve continues AND HERE IN OUR STUDIO:
GEMMA MENDEZ-SMITH, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR, FOUR COUNTY LABOUR
MARKET PLANNING BOARD, WHICH
SERVES GREY, BRUCE, HURON, AND
PERTH COUNTIES...

Gemma is in her thirties, with short wavy brown hair with blond highlights. She's wearing a black blazer over a matching blouse, and golden droplet earrings.

Steve continues CHARLES CIRTWELL, PRESIDENT AND
CEO OF THE NORTHERN POLICY INSTITUTE...

Charles is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven, with receding gray hair. He's wearing a gray suit and shirt.

Steve continues AND WAYNE CALDWELL, PROFESSOR,
SCHOOL OF ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN
AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.

Wayne is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, pink shirt, and purple tie.

Steve continues IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU FOLKS HERE
IN THE STUDIO WITH US.
YOUR WORSHIP, ON THE LINE FROM
THE SAULT.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US AS
WELL.
I'M GOING TO PUT STATS ON THE
RECORD.
WE'LL PUT THIS UP SO FOLKS GET A
SENSE OF OUR DISCUSSION TODAY.
PUTTING DOWN ROOTS IN ONTARIO.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Putting down roots in Ontario."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
ONLY ABOUT 5,000 OF
APPROXIMATELY 113,000 ANNUAL
NEWCOMERS TO ONTARIO MAKE THEIR
NEW HOMES OUTSIDE OF THE LARGE
URBAN AREAS.
IN 2015, MORE THAN 90 percent OF
ONTARIO IMMIGRANTS SETTLED IN
TORONTO, OTTAWA-GATINEAU,
HAMILTON, KITCHENER-WATERLOO,
LONDON, OR WINDSOR.
ONLY 2.8 percent OF IMMIGRANTS RESIDE
IN ONTARIO'S RURAL AREAS.
AND LET'S DO A LITTLE MORE ON
THIS, SHALL WE?
LET'S KEEP GOING HERE.

The slate changes to another titled "Tough numbers."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
POPULATION PROJECTIONS FOR 2011
TO 2025 SHOW THAT ONTARIO'S
RURAL POPULATION WILL CONTINUE
TO DECLINE FROM NORTH OF A
MILLION TO JUST NORTH OF 900,000
PEOPLE.
THE POPULATION IS AGING AND
YOUNG WORKING-AGE ADULTS ARE
LEAVING FOR URBAN AREAS.
NORTHERN ONTARIO NEEDS 150,000
NEWCOMERS TO PREVENT POPULATION
SHORTFALLS BY THE YEAR 2041.
AND AMONG THOSE NEWCOMERS THEY
NEED 75,000 WORKERS TO FILL THE
WORK FORCE SHORTAGE BY 2041.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
IT MEANS THEY NEED TO BRING IN
AN AVERAGE OF 6,000 PEOPLE HER
YEAR STARTING THIS YEAR, 6,000
FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS, TO
PREVENT THE SHORTAGE.
IN 2015, THEY ATTRACTED ONLY 511
IMMIGRANTS.
SO YOU GET THE SENSE OF WHAT'S
GOING ON HERE RIGHT NOW.
CHARLES, TO YOU FIRST.
YOUR THINK-TANK CRUNCHED A LOT
OF THESE NUMBERS.
GIVE US A SENSE OF HOW DIRE YOU
THINK THE SITUATION IS.

The caption changes to "Charles Cirtwell. Northern Policy Institute."

Charles says WELL, I THINK IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO
HAVE THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE
HAVE AND THE CAPACITY TO PAY THE
TAXES, DELIVER THE SERVICES,
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEALTH CARE,
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION,
THE SIMPLE FACT IS WE NEED
FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES AND WE NEED
THEM ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO.
AND RIGHT NOW, WHEN YOU HAVE
THIS CONVERSATION WITH THOSE WHO
MAKE THE POLICIES, WHETHER
THEY'RE IN OTTAWA OR WHETHER
THEY'RE IN QUEEN'S PARK, YOU
DON'T GET A VERY POSITIVE
RESPONSE.

Steve says MEANING WHAT?

Charles says MEANING THAT FOR THE MOST
PART, IMMIGRATION POLICY IN
CANADA IS FOCUSED ON THE EXACT
PLACES WHERE YOU SAY IMMIGRANTS
ARE GOING.
THEY'RE FOCUSED ON THE LARGE
URBAN CENTRES.
THEY'RE FOCUSED ON THE
CHALLENGES THAT ARE BEING
CREATED THERE IN TERMS OF
UNDEREMPLOYMENT, UNEMPLOYMENT,
LACK OF CULTURAL SERVICES, LACK
OF SETTLEMENT, AND THAT'S FAIR,
BECAUSE WE'VE GOT LITERALLY
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
IN THOSE COMMUNITIES WHO NEED
THOSE KINDS OF SUPPORTS.

Steve says I WANT TO GET A
SENSE, YOUR WORSHIP, LET ME GO
TO YOU IN THE SAULT, WHAT ARE
WANTING OR VACANT CURRENTLY IN
THE NORTH CURRENTLY NOT BEING
HELD BECAUSE THERE'S INADEQUATE
POPULATION?

The caption changes to "Christian Provenzano. Mayor of Sault Saint Marie."

A map pops up briefly showing the location of Sault Saint Marie.

The caption changes to "How bad?"

Christian says CHARLES MAKES A GOOD AND IMPORTANT POINT.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE IN
SAULT STE. MARIE.
IN MY COMMUNITY ALONE, WE
ESTIMATE WE WILL NEED 11,000
PEOPLE TO MIGRATE TO SAULT STE.
MARIE.
WHETHER THEY'RE PEOPLE MIGRATING
BACK OR IMMIGRANTS, MAINTAIN OUR
CURRENT POPULATION LEVELS AND
ACTIVITY LEVELS BETWEEN NOW AND
2026.
SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
WHICH JOBS ARE OPEN, THERE ARE
ALL KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES AND
WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR JUST
SIGNIFICANTLY, YOU KNOW, ONE
TYPE OF OPPORTUNITY.
WE'RE HAVING PROBLEMS IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO FROM MINIMUM
WAGE LABOUR JOBS TO PROFESSIONAL
JOBS.
SO THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES HERE.
THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE GOING TO
BECOME MORE SIGNIFICANT.
WE'RE ALSO SEEING SMALL BUSINESS
OWNERS HAVING A HARD TIME WITH
SUCCESSION PLANNING AND
TRANSITIONING THEIR SMALL
BUSINESSES BECAUSE THE
POPULATION JUST ISN'T THERE TO
SUPPORT THEM OR TO HAVE THOSE
YOUNG ENTREPRENEURS COMING UP TO
BUY BUSINESSES.
SO THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM
ACROSS THE PROVINCE.
AND IF WE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE REGIONS,
PARTICULARLY MY FOCUS IS
NORTHERN ONTARIO, WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE SOME MAJOR POPULATION
ISSUES.
I THINK THE MOST RECENT DATA
THAT THE PROVINCE HAS PUT OUT
SHOWS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A
SIGNIFICANT POPULATION DECLINE
FROM 2016 TO 2041, AND WE HAVE
INFRASTRUCTURE HERE THAT'S OPEN,
WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES HERE THAT
ARE OPEN, BUT WE REALLY NEED, AS
CHARLES SUGGESTED, SOME REALLY
SIGNIFICANT POLICY SHIFTS AT THE
PROVINCIAL AND FEDERAL LEVEL.

Steve says HOLD THAT THOUGHT,
MR. MAYOR.
WE WANT TO LAY OUT THE PROBLEM
FIRST AND THEN WE'LL GET TO
POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS LATER IN OUR
DISCUSSION.
WHICH INCIDENTALLY IS NOT AN
ACADEMIC DISCUSSION FOR YOU.
YOU HAVE LIVED THIS, GEMMA, RIGHT?

Gemma says ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says TELL A BIT OF I
DON'T YOU ARE STORY.
WHEN DID YOU FIRST COME TO
CANADA?

Gemma says I CAME TO CANADA IN 1987.

Steve says '87.
IT'S 30 YEARS ALREADY.

Gemma says YES, ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says COMING FROM WHERE?

Gemma says COMING FROM TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO.

Steve says WHY?

The caption changes to "Gemma Mendez-Smith. Four County Labour Market Planning Board."
Then, it changes again to "From Trinidad to Teeswater."

Gemma says WHY?
AT A YOUNG AGE I DECIDED TO SEE
WHAT MY LIFE CAN OFFER AND MY
PARENTS SAID, OKAY, LET'S JUST
SEND YOU TO CANADA.
MY UNCLE LIVED HERE.

Steve says THEY DID NOT COME
WITH YOU?

Gemma says NO.
I CAME ON MY OWN, THEN THE
OPPORTUNITY OF BEING A LIVE-IN
NANNY CAME UP, AND SO THAT'S
WHAT I DID WHEN I FIRST CAME TO
CANADA.

Steve says IN WHAT CITY?

Gemma says IN TORONTO.

Steve says SO YOU FIRST CAME TO
THE BIG CITY?

Gemma says YES, ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says WHERE ARE YOU NOW?

Gemma says I'M IN A TOWN CALLED... IT'S
A VILLAGE, NOT EVEN A TOWN, THE
VILLAGE OF TEESWATER.

Steve says YOU MOVED FROM A
CITY OF 2.5 MILLION TO A HAMLET,
I GUESS, OF FEWER THAN A THOUSAND?

Gemma says YES.

Steve says WHY?

Gemma says AFTER MY HUSBAND AND I GOT
MARRIED, ABOUT TEN YEARS INTO
OUR MARRIAGE, THREE CHILDREN
LATER, WE THOUGHT WE REALLY
DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THE CITY.
WE WANTED TO BE IN THE COUNTRY.
AND GROWING UP IN A WEST INDIAN
ISLAND, I DID GROW UP IN A
VILLAGE.
AND SO IT MEANT THAT WE WERE
FAMILIAR WITH, YOU KNOW,
TRANSPORTATION AND ALL OF THOSE
IDEAS.
WE REALLY WANTED TO MOVE TO THE
COUNTRY TO LIVE.
AND THEN AS WE MOVED THERE, WE
LOVED BEING THERE.
BUT CERTAINLY IT BROUGHT ITS OWN
CHALLENGES.

Steve says WHAT... YOU KNOW,
IMMIGRANTS OVERWHELMINGLY,
OBVIOUSLY, AS WE'VE POINTED OUT,
STAY IN CITIES.
WHAT IS THE LURE OF THE CITY
THAT KEEPS THEM THERE THAT
APPARENTLY WASN'T STRONG ENOUGH
TO KEEP YOU THERE?

Gemma says WELL, I THINK THE LURE IS...
MAYBE THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE
RURAL COMMUNITIES AND I THINK
THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST THING.
YOU KNOW, JUST BEING ABLE TO
KNOW THAT IT EXISTS.
WHEN MY BROTHER... SO MY BROTHER
IS NOW HERE AND I'M REALLY HAPPY
TO HAVE IMMEDIATE FAMILY HERE NOW.

Steve says HERE MEANING WHERE?

Gemma says HERE IN CANADA.

Steve says BUT NOT IN TEASDALE.

Gemma says TEESWATER.
HE'S IN A SMALL TOWN.
BUT IT'S BECAUSE HE CAME TO
TEESWATER FIRST.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE
TALKED ABOUT.
WHEN HE CAME TO CANADA, HE WOULD
NOT HAVE SETTLED, WHERE HE LIVES
RIGHT NOW, HAD HE NOT MOVED IN
WITH US TO EXPERIENCE RURAL
CANADA AND BE ABLE TO SAY, THIS
IS A GREAT PLACE TO BE.
AND SO HE HAS SETTLED IN A SMALL
TOWN AND HE LOVES BEING THERE.

Steve says WAYNE, WHAT ARE SOME
OF THE FACTORS THAT YOU THINK,
AGAIN, PREVENT PEOPLE FROM
EXPERIMENTING WITH RURAL ONTARIO
AND KEEP THEM IN THE CITIES?

The caption changes to "Wayne Caldwell. University of Guelph."
Then, it changes again to "A rural reluctance."

Wayne says I THINK IT'S A NUMBER OF THINGS.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE
OFTEN ATTRACTED TO PLACES WHERE
THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT MAY
SHARE THE SAME BACKGROUNDS, AND
THAT OFTEN DRAWS PEOPLE TO LARGE
URBAN CENTRES WHERE THERE TENDS
TO BE A LARGE POPULATION.
THERE'S A PERCEPTION, OFTEN
MISTAKEN, THERE MIGHT NOT BE THE
SAME EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES IN
HERE, AND WE'VE HEARD EARLIER
THERE ARE GREAT OPPORTUNITIES
FOR RURAL EMPLOYMENT IN ONTARIO.
I THINK THOSE ARE TWO OF THE
MAIN DRIVING FACTORS.

Steve says YOUR WORSHIP, TELL
ME SOME OF THE REASONS THAT YOU
HEAR WHEN YOU TRY TO MAKE THE
CASE FOR SAULT STE. MARIE AS TO
WHY PEOPLE AREN'T NECESSARILY
THAT KEEN TO MOVE THERE?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Christian says I
THINK A LOT OF WHAT WE SEE IS A
LOT OF IMMIGRANTS ARE
COMFORTABLE IMMIGRATING TO WHERE
THERE'S ALREADY AN EXISTING
CULTURAL GROUP.
I THINK YOU CAN SEE THAT IN
SAULT STE. MARIE.
AT THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY,
THERE WAS A LOT OF ITALIAN
IMMIGRATION.
WHEN THE STEEL PLANT OPENED, A
LOT OF ITALIANS CAME OVER TO
WORK AS LABOURERS AND THE
ITALIANS FOLLOWED THE ITALIANS
OVER.
I THINK WHAT YOU SEE WHEN THE
IMMIGRANTS COME, THEY NATURALLY
MIGRATE TOWARDS THEIR CULTURAL
COMMUNITIES.
I THINK THE POINT WAS MADE
EARLIER, GEMMA MADE THE POINT
AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE, YOU
DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW
AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
SMALLER COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO
BE LIKE AND YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE
THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES AND YOU
DON'T RECOGNIZE THERE ARE
CULTURALLY ACCEPTING AND YOU
DON'T MAYBE RECOGNIZE ALSO THAT
THE COST OF LIVING IS GOING TO
BE A LOT LOWER IN THE SMALLER
COMMUNITIES.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WOULD EVER
POSSIBLY GET INTO THE HOUSING
MARKET IN THE GTHA AS AN
IMMIGRANT OR JUST AS A YOUNG
PROFESSIONAL STARTING OUT.
BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY GET IN THE
HOUSING MARKET IN NORTH BAY OR
SUDBURY OR SAULT STE. MARIE OR
ANY OF THE OTHER SMALLER
COMMUNITIES IN BETWEEN REALLY
QUICKLY.
PART OF IT IS TELLING OUR STORY
AND WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY AS
COMMUNITIES TO TELL OUR STORIES
EFFECTIVELY AND TO GET OUT THERE
AND SELL OURSELVES, AND WHEN WE
DO, WHEN PEOPLE COME AND HAVE
THE EXPERIENCE, WE HAVE A VERY
POSITIVE UPTAKE AND WE HAVE
PEOPLE, ONCE THEY'RE HERE AND
SEE THE BENEFITS OF BEING IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO, THEY OFTEN
STAY, BUT THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT
OPPORTUNITY.

Steve says YOU GO FIRST.

Gemma says I WANT
TO JUMP IN ON ONE OF THOSE TOPICS.
WHEN MY BROTHER CAME TO CANADA,
I WAS ABLE TO EXPERIENCE HIS
ENTERING CANADA VERY
DIFFERENTLY.
I CAME IN AS A VISITOR.
I APPLIED TO BE A WORKER HERE.
AND THEN I STAYED AND APPLIED...
YOU KNOW, WENT THROUGH THAT
PROCESS.
HE CAME AS A LANDED IMMIGRANT.
IN THE AIRPORT, HE WAS GIVEN A
RED BAG.
AND OF COURSE I WAS CURIOUS TO
FIND OUT, WHAT IS HE GETTING IN
THAT RED BAG?
AND ALL THE ADVERTISEMENTS,
EVERYTHING LED TO AND POINTED TO
THE GTHA.
AND SO RIGHT AWAY I STARTED
THINKING, IN OUR RURAL
COMMUNITIES, WE'RE MISSING THE
OPPORTUNITY OF TELLING OUR STORY
IN THAT RED BAG.

Steve says YOU'VE GOT TO GET IN
THAT RED BAG.

Gemma says WE NEED TO GET IN THE RED BAG!
AND I TOLD HIM THAT SEVEN OR
EIGHT YEARS AGO WHEN HE CAME
HERE AND THAT'S ONE OF THE
THINGS I SAW IMMEDIATELY
LACKING.
I WAS ALREADY LIVING IN
TEESWATER, WORKING ON WORK FORCE
DEVELOPMENT ISSUES, AND THAT'S
WHERE I SAW WE WERE DOING
OURSELVES A DISSERVICE BY NOT
TELLING OUR STORY.

Charles says THERE
WERE TWO THINGS AS PART OF THE
EARLIER CONVERSATION AS MISTAKES
THAT NORTHERN AND RURAL
COMMUNITIES MAKE.
AND THE FIRST IS TO SAY THAT
IMMIGRANTS AREN'T ENTHUSIASTIC
ABOUT OUR COMMUNITIES.
I THINK THAT'S A MISTAKE.
I THINK WHEN WE TALK TO
IMMIGRANTS ABOUT OUR
COMMUNITIES, WHEN THEY BECOME
AWARE, THERE'S A HIGH LEVEL OF
ENTHUSIASM.
SO LET'S NOT KIND OF
CHARACTERIZE IT AS IT'S AN
UNPLEASANT OR UNATTRACTIVE PLACE
TO IMMIGRANTS.
AS THE POINT WAS MADE EARLIER,
THE REAL PROBLEM IS SIMPLY A
TOTAL LACK OF AWARENESS.

The caption changes to "Country livin'."

Steve says YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE
THE CASE.

Charles says WHEN WE GET ON THEIR RADAR
SCREEN, WHEN THEY CONSIDER US,
THEY GET VERY ENTHUSIASTIC.

Steve says WAYNE, LET'S HIT
SOMETHING RIGHT ON THE HEAD
HERE.
YOU CAN TELL ME IF IT'S A
MISIMPRESSION, BUT THERE MAY BE
AN IMPRESSION OUT THERE THAT FOR
RACIALIZED COMMUNITIES, FOR
VISIBLE MINORITIES, RURAL AND
NORTHERN ONTARIO IS A TOUGHER
PLACE TO LIVE THAN SAY IN THE
BIGGER CITIES.
TRUE OR FALSE?

Wayne says IT DEPENDS.
I WOULD SAY THAT THERE ARE
PEOPLE THAT WOULD PERCEIVE THAT
AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME
THINGS IN LARGE URBAN CENTRES
PROVIDE A RANGE OF SERVICES THAT
MANY RURAL COMMUNITIES ARE MORE
CHALLENGED TO PROVIDE IN TERMS
OF HELPING NEW IMMIGRANTS TO
BECOME INTEGRATED WITHIN THE
COMMUNITY, TO BE AWARE OF THE
EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES THAT
MIGHT BE THERE.
BUT THERE ARE MANY RURAL
COMMUNITIES THAT DO A FANTASTIC
JOB OF TRYING TO DO THAT REALLY
WELL.
I THINK THERE ARE SOME REALLY
SUCCESSFUL EXAMPLES.
WE'VE DONE RESEARCH LOOKING AT
EXAMPLES, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM
OXFORD COUNTY, PERTH COUNTY ARE
TWO COMMUNITIES THAT WE'VE SEEN
DO SOME REALLY INTERESTING
THINGS AND WORKING WITH THE
COMMUNITIES TO TRY TO MAKE
PEOPLE FEEL WELCOME, HELP THEM
FIND EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES,
ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE,
THAT RANGE OF SERVICES THAT
NEWCOMERS TO COMMUNITIES OFTEN
ARE LOOKING FOR.

Steve says YOU KNOW I WANT TO
ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.
SO TELL ME: HAVE YOU RUN INTO
ANY RACISM IN YOUR PART OF THE
PROVINCE?

The caption changes to "Gemma Mendez-Smith, @GemmaFCLMPB."

Gemma says ABSOLUTELY.
IT WASN'T A THOUGHT WHEN WE
MOVED INTO THE AREA.
NEVER DID WE THINK ABOUT THAT AS
SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
BUT IN THE SCHOOL, WHEN WE MOVED
TO THE RURAL COMMUNITY, OUR
CHILDREN WERE YOUNG AND SO THEY
ENTERED THE SCHOOL AND THEY HAD
THEIR ISSUES.
IT'S INTERESTING.
MY SON, WE SHOWED HIM A PICTURE
OF DAD WHEN HE FIRST CAME TO
CANADA.
MY HUSBAND CAME WHEN HE WAS
ABOUT 10 OR 11.
IT WAS HIS GRADE 5 PICTURE.
AND MY SON SAID, "OH, I SEE
DAD'S HAD SIMILAR CHALLENGES,"
BECAUSE DAD WAS THE ONLY CHILD
OF COLOUR IN HIS CLASS.

Steve says YOUR KIDS WERE TOO?

Gemma says YES.
OUR DAUGHTER ACTUALLY HAD ONE
OTHER ETHNIC FRIEND IN HER CLASS.
AND NOT SO LONG AGO IN OUR...
OUR THIRD CHILD WENT INTO HIGH
SCHOOL, I WAS WORRIED ABOUT MY
DAUGHTER.
I WAS REALLY WORRIED ABOUT HER
BEING IN THE CLASS BECAUSE IN
THAT SCHOOL ONLY BECAUSE THERE
HAD BEEN MENTIONS OF, YOU KNOW,
DON'T PLAY WITH THE BROWN GIRL
AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

Steve says WHO SAID THAT?

Gemma says CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOL.

Steve says CHILDREN WOULD SAY
DON'T PLAY WITH THE BROWN GIRL?

Gemma says DON'T PLAY WITH THE BROWN GIRL.
WE HAD A CONVERSATION, MY
HUSBAND AND I, SHOULD WE
HOME-SCHOOL?
SHOULD WE LOOK AT MOVING?
SHOULD WE CHANGE HER SCHOOL?
WE DECIDED WE WEREN'T GOING TO
DO THAT.
OUR DAUGHTER IS VERY RESILIENT.
SHE IS 13 AND SHE'S A WONDERFUL
YOUNG LADY GROWING UP AND SHE
SPEAKS UP FOR HERSELF, WHICH IS
REALLY NICE.
I THINK THAT'S THE RESILIENCE
THAT CAN BE BUILT.
BUT IT'S TOUGH AS A PARENT.
WE ASKED OURSELVES OVER THE
YEARS, DID WE MAKE THE RIGHT
DECISION?
WE LOVE WHERE WE ARE.
WE HAVE INTEGRATED OURSELVES
INTO THE COMMUNITY.
BUT WE RECOGNIZE NOW THAT OUR
CHILDREN DID HAVE SOME STRUGGLES
STRUGGLES.

Charles says THAT DOES
OCCUR IN LARGE URBAN CENTRES.

Steve says I WAS GOING TO SAY.
LET'S STATE THE OBVIOUS.
RACISM IS EVERYWHERE.
WE SHOULDN'T GIVE THE IMPRESSION
IT'S ONLY IN RURAL OR NORTHERN
PARTS OF THE PROVINCE.
WE'RE SITTING HERE IN THE
BIGGEST CITY IN THE COUNTRY AND
OF COURSE THERE'S RACISM IN THIS
CITY AS WELL.
YOUR WORE SHOP, I WANT YOU TO
WEIGH IN ON THAT, IF YOU WOULD?
SAULT STE. MARIE HAS HAD ITS
TROUBLES WITH THOSE KINDS OF
ISSUES IN THE PAST.
IS IT A PROBLEM TODAY?

The caption changes to "Christian Provenzano, @MayorProvenzano."

Christian says LOOK,
I WANT TO RECOGNIZE AND
ACKNOWLEDGE GEMMA'S EXPERIENCES
AND BE RESPECTFUL OF THEM.
I HAVE LIVED IN OBVIOUSLY SAULT
STE. MARIE MOST OF MY LIFE, BUT
I'VE ALSO LIVED IN
KITCHENER-WATERLOO, I LIVED IN
TORONTO, HALIFAX, OTTAWA, AND
I'VE TRAVELLED EVERYWHERE IN
THIS COUNTRY WITH THE EXCEPTION
OF NEWFOUNDLAND, WHICH I HOPE TO
GET TO SOON.
AND MY FEELING AND EXPERIENCE,
THE IGNORANCE AND THE RACISM
EXISTS EVERYWHERE AND IT'S A
PROBLEM WE ALL HAVE TO CONTEND
WITH.
I'M REALLY PROUD OF WHERE MY
COMMUNITY HAS EVOLVED TO AND
WHERE IT'S COME TO.
WE'VE HAD RECENTLY WELL OVER 100
SYRIAN REFUGEES COME INTO THIS
COMMUNITY, AND THE WAY THEY'VE
BEEN EMBRACED BY THE COMMUNITY
HAS BEEN REALLY HEARTENING.
I THINK PART OF OUR JOB,
CHARLES, AND FOR THOSE OF US IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO, WE HAVE TO
OBVIOUSLY SELL AND COMMUNICATE,
WE HAVE TO GET INTO THE RED BAG,
BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO BE
WELCOMING, WE HAVE TO IN A
SINCERE WAY BE WELCOMING.
I THINK YOU'RE SEEING THAT.
YOU'RE SEEING GROWTH AND
EVOLUTION IN THE SMALL CITY
CENTRES AND THE RURAL AREAS AND
THE MORE IMMIGRATION AND
MIGRATION THAT WE RECEIVE, THE
MORE YOU'LL SEE THAT.
SO I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE ANY
FEELING THAT MY COMMUNITY AND
THE NORTH WHERE I'VE SPENT MOST
OF MY LIFE IS ANY DIFFERENT THAN
OR HAS ANY MORE LARGER
PREVALENCE OR A LARGER
SIGNIFICANCE OF IGNORANT
ACTIVITIES THAN YOU SEE IN OTHER
CITIES I'VE LIVED IN.

Steve says WAYNE?

The caption changes to "Wayne Caldwell, @waynecaldwell."

Wayne says WE HAVE TO
APPRECIATE THE CHANGE WE'RE
INVITING RURAL COMMUNITIES TO GO
THROUGH TO GO THROUGH THE
CHANGES WITH DECLINING
POPULATION AND NEW IMMIGRANTS, I
GREW UP IN THE 1960s, I WONDER
WHEN IT WAS I FIRST MET IN
PERSON SOMEONE OF COLOUR FOR THE
FIRST TIME?
HOW OLD WAS I?
HOW GEMMA HAS SHARED WITH US IN
TERMS OF HER CHILDREN GOING TO
SCHOOL, BEING A SINGLE PERSON IN
THAT CONTEXT, FOR MANY PEOPLE
GROWING UP IN RURAL ONTARIO
DECADES AGO, THERE WASN'T ANY
DIVERSITY, IF I MIGHT.
AND WE HAVE TO MAKE THOSE
CHANGES AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT
CHALLENGE TO DEAL WITH.

Steve says WE'VE LAID OUT THE
ISSUES AND THE CHALLENGES, AND
NOW WE WANT TO GET SOME
SOLUTIONS ON THE TABLE OR AS YOU
POINT OUT FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET
INSIDE THAT RED BAG AT THE
AIRPORT.
WHY DON'T YOU START IT OFF HERE,
CHARLES.
WHAT ARE THE THINGS PEOPLE
SHOULD KNOW ABOUT RURAL AND
NORTHERN ONTARIO THAT WOULD MAKE
THE LIFESTYLE THERE PARTICULARLY
ATTRACTIVE?

Charles says WELL,
NUMBER ONE, FOR 440,000 dollars, YOU
CAN BUY YOURSELF A 900 SQUARE
FOOT CONDO HERE IN BEAUTIFUL
TORONTO, OR FOR 440,000 dollars IN
THUNDER BAY, WHERE I LIVE, YOU
COULD GET YOURSELF A
THREE-BEDROOM HOUSE, THREE
BATHS, NICE PARKING LOT... YOU
KNOW, DRIVEWAY FOR YOURSELF,
NICE YARD, FIVE MINUTES FROM THE
LOCAL SCHOOL, FIVE MINUTES FROM
THE LOCAL HOSPITAL, AN INDIE
MUSIC SCENE THAT'S SECOND TO
NONE IN THE COUNTRY.

Steve says NOT BAD.
THAT HOSPITAL IS A 450 MILLION dollar HOSPITAL TOO.
THEY CALL IT THE TAJMA HOSPITAL,
I THINK.

Charles says YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO
THUNDER BAY TO GET THAT KIND OF
MEDICAL CARE.
SIOUX LOOKOUT IS WELCOMING TO
DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE, VERY
DIVERSE, AND IT'S A PLACE
EVERYBODY CAN FEEL COMFORTABLE.
AS A NEWCOMER TO THE NORTH
MYSELF, I WAS FROM HALIFAX WHEN
I MOVED TO THUNDER BAY FOUR AND
A HALF YEARS AGO, I'VE
EXPERIENCED SMALL, MEDIUM, AND
LARGE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE
NORTH.

Steve says THE PERSIANS TASTE
VERY GOOD.

Charles says I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF THE
PERSIANS.
I GUESS I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY
AS A PERSON FROM THUNDER BAY TO
SAY YAY PERSIANS?
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, THE
PERSIANS IS A WONDERFUL, IF YOU
LIKE ICING, THAT'S THE PERFECT
OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU.

Steve says THAT IS EXACTLY
RIGHT.
CAN YOU OFFER... I DON'T KNOW
WHAT... FINANCIAL INCENTIVES TO
GET PEOPLE TO MOVE TO SMALLER
AND MORE REMOTE PLACES IN THIS
PROVINCE?

The caption changes to "Rolling out the welcome mat."

Gemma says I THINK
WHEN WE LOOK AT INCENTIVES, WE
HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL AROUND
INVITING PEOPLE TO OUR
COMMUNITY.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE
NEED TO FOCUS ON, FIRST OF ALL,
IS THE INTEGRATION INTO THE
COMMUNITY.
IF WE OFFER INCENTIVES, ARE
THOSE INCENTIVES BEING SPREAD
AROUND EVERYONE?
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS, WE TALK
ABOUT WORK FORCE DEVELOPMENT.
IF WE INVITE AN EMPLOYER TO LOOK
AT OUR IMMIGRANT POPULATION AS A
POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO THEIR WORK
FORCE NEEDS, WE HAVE LOTS OF
NEEDS IN THE FOUR-COUNTY REGION
THAT WE SERVE.
BUT WHEN WE TALK TO EMPLOYERS
ABOUT THE IMMIGRANT POPULATION,
WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT
WHAT WE'RE OFFERING THE
IMMIGRANT POPULATION IS ALSO THE
SAME OFFERING THAT WE'RE MAKING
FOR OTHER PEOPLE LOOKING FOR
WORK IN THE COMMUNITY.
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, IF I GO
TO AN EMPLOYER AND SAY CAN YOU
CONSIDER THIS IMMIGRANT PERSON,
GEMMA, IS COMING INTO YOUR
COMMUNITY.
THE TREATMENT, THE ORIENTATION
INTO WORK, ALL OF WHAT'S
HAPPENING IN THE WORKPLACE MUST
BE SIMILAR TO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE
IS GETTING.
AND THE REASON I SEE IT THAT WAY
IS THAT, IF WE DON'T DO THAT, WE
IMMEDIATELY CREATE A DIVIDE IN
THAT WORKPLACE, AND THAT'S THE
LAST THING WE WANT.
INTEGRATION IS ABOUT US GETTING
ALONG, WORKING TOGETHER.
NOT JUST GETTING ALONG WORKING
TOGETHER ALONGSIDE EACH OTHER
AND REALLY FOCUSING ON THE
ADVANTAGES THAT EACH OF US BRING.

Steve says WAYNE, LET ME GET
YOU TO FOLLOW UP IN THIS REGARD,
BECAUSE THESE THINGS ARE ALWAYS
TRICKY.
IF YOU OFFER LET'S SAY A
5- OR 10-YEAR TAX HOLIDAY TO
SOMEONE WHO COMES IN, THE
NEIGHBOURS MAY NOT BE THRILLED
ABOUT THE FACT THEY'RE PAYING
PROPERTY TAXES AND THE OTHER NEW
FOLKS ARE NOT.
WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

Wayne says I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
THE NOTION OF PROVIDING THOSE
INCENTIVES IS REALLY
CHALLENGING.
WHAT YOU CAN DO IS HAVE PROGRAMS
TO HELP PEOPLE FEEL MORE
COMFORTABLE, TO HELP THEM BECOME
MORE ADAPTED IN THE COMMUNITY,
ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE WAS
MENTIONED EARLIER AS AN EXAMPLE.
I THINK THERE ARE OTHER THINGS
MUNICIPALITIES ARE TRYING TO DO
TO ATTRACT PEOPLE AND PROVIDE A
RANGE OF SERVICES THAT MAKE
PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE.
IF WE REMEMBER THAT GLOBALLY,
ROUGHLY HALF OF THE POPULATION
OF THE WORLD IS RURAL, MANY
PEOPLE COME TO CANADA, THEY END
UP IN LARGE URBAN CENTRES, BUT I
THINK THEY WOULD ASPIRE TO BE IN
A RURAL COMMUNITY IF WE CAN TELL
THEM THE STORY.

Steve says WE'RE NOT LIKE THAT,
85 percent URBAN?

Wayne says THAT'S RIGHT.

Gemma says I'D
LIKE TO ADD WHEN WE OFFER
SERVICES AS AN IMMIGRANT, I
DON'T WANT TO GO TO A SPECIAL
PLACE TO RECEIVE THOSE SERVICES.
IF I'M LOOKING FOR EMPLOYMENT
AND THIS SERVICE IS OFFERED, I
WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THAT
EMPLOYMENT SERVICE THAT
EVERYBODY ELSE IN OUR COMMUNITY
WILL GO TO.
I THINK IT REALLY...
PARTICULARLY IN A COMMUNITY
WHERE I MAY BE THE ONLY PERSON
OF COLOUR OR THERE WILL BE FEWER
OF US.
AND SO WHEN WE LOOK AT
DIVERSITY, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT THAT DIVERSITY IS NOT
HIGHLIGHTED AND WE'RE
SEGREGATING SERVICES.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S
NOT IN ISOLATION; IT IS A PART
OF WHAT WE'RE ALREADY DOING IN
THE COMMUNITY, AND I THINK THAT
WILL BE A KEY CHALLENGE FOR US
AS WE LOOK AT, HOW DO WE
INTEGRATE PEOPLE?
I DESCRIBE INTEGRATION AND
WELCOMING AS TWO DIFFERENT
THINGS.
WELCOMING, I SAY TO YOU, STEVE,
IT'S REALLY NICE TO MEET YOU.
WITH BEING TO OUR COMMUNITY.
IF YOU NEED ANYTHING, LET ME
KNOW.
HOWEVER, INTEGRATION IS VERY
DIFFERENT.
IT'S ABOUT, STEVE, IT'S GREAT TO
MEET YOU.
WELCOME TO OUR COMMUNITY.
NOW, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO
BE... YOU KNOW, WHO WOULD YOU
LIKE TO BE INTRODUCED TO?
YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE DO AS
VOLUNTEERS IN OUR COMMUNITY:
WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO FIT IN?
IT'S AN INVITATION ALMOST
IMMEDIATELY TO BE A PART OF THE
COMMUNITY AS OPPOSED TO, WHEN
I'M READY, I WILL REQUEST TO BE
A PART OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND THAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE.
WHEN WE MOVED INTO TEESWATER,
OUR IMMEDIATE NEIGHBOURS, THAT'S
EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.
THEY SAID THIS IS WHAT THE
COMMUNITY DOES.
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO
PARTICIPATE?
IT WAS THE MOST INCREDIBLE
EXPERIENCE WE'VE HAD.
WHEN OUR DAUGHTER WENT AWAY TO
B.C. FOR SCHOOL, SHE SAID, MOM
AND DAD, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GOING
TO MISS THE MOST?
IT'S THAT VOLUNTEER EXPERIENCE
SHE'S BEEN DOING SINCE SHE WAS 8
YEARS OLD IS THE FIRST THING.
YOU DIDN'T MISS YOUR MOM AND
DAD?
BUT IT WAS THAT FIRST EXPERIENCE
SHE HAD AS A YOUNG PERSON MOVING
INTO A COMMUNITY AND BEING
INTEGRATED.
INTEGRATION IS VERY DIFFERENT
THAN WELCOMING.

Steve says LET ME ASK THE MAYOR
OF SAULT STE. MARIE ABOUT THAT.
HOW WELL ARE YOU DOING OR NOT
WELL ARE YOU DOING AT THAT
EFFORT UP THERE?

Christian says IT'S
REALLY NICE TO HEAR GEMMA MAKE
THAT DISTINCTION AND TALK ABOUT
HER EXPERIENCES.
I'M REALLY PROUD OF A LOT OF THE
GOOD WORK THAT OUR LIP, OUR
LOCAL IMMIGRATION PARTNERSHIP
HAS DONE IN THE SOO.
THEY ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT
GEMMA IS SUGGESTING.
A LOT OF THE SERVICES WE'RE
OFFERING TO HELP MIGRANTS AND
NEWCOMERS INTEGRATE INTO OUR
COMMUNITY, WE'RE DOING THAT
THROUGH THE COMMUNITY CAREER
CENTRE.
SO IT'S BEEN VERY POSITIVE.
WE'VE ALSO HAD A GROUP OF YOUNG
PROFESSIONALS START REFUGEE 705,
WHICH IS A GROUP OF LOCALS THAT
ARE REACHING OUT TO AND TRYING
TO WORK WITH AND WELCOME AND
INTEGRATE SOME OF OUR NEWCOMERS,
AND WE HAVE ON TOP OF REFUGEE
705, GLOBAL FRIENDS.
A LOT OF THIS HAS BEEN ORGANIC.
A NICE THING IS A LOT OF THIS
HAS GROWN UP IN THE COMMUNITY
OUTSIDE OF POLITICAL INFLUENCE
OR POLITICAL URGING.
IT'S HAPPENED NATURALLY AND
THERE'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT
OF POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR IT.
SO YOU'RE SEEING THIS.
AND I THINK WHAT I'VE NOTICED IS
THAT OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE
LEAVING AND I THINK A LOT OF
WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO AND THE
REGIONAL COMMUNITIES IS THE
YOUNG PEOPLE LEAVING AND THE
YOUNG PEOPLE REALLY EFFECT THIS
CHANGE.
AND I THINK ONCE WE ARE ABLE TO
MAKE OUR STORY IN A COMPELLING
WAY AND PEOPLE REALIZE THEY HAVE
THE OPPORTUNITY IN NORTHERN
ONTARIO, I THINK YOU CAN SEE A
LOT MORE INTEGRATION AND A LOT
MORE POSITIVE EXPERIENCES.
SO IT'S HAPPENING.
BUT THERE'S CERTAINLY MORE WORK
TO DO.
THERE'S ALWAYS MORE WORK TO DO.
MUNICIPALITIES DON'T HAVE A LOT
OF LEVERS.
ONE THING I THINK WE CAN DO IS
REALLY TRY AND EMBRACE
TECHNOLOGY BETTER THAN WE ARE
NOW.
TECHNOLOGY IS MAKING IT SO THAT
PEOPLE CAN LIVE ANYWHERE AND
WORK ANYWHERE.
I'VE MET SOME YOUNG
PROFESSIONALS IN THE SOO THAT
ARE ENTREPRENEURS THAT ARE
WORKING FOR VERY LARGE COMPANIES
AND THEY'RE SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS
AND THEY WORK OUT OF THEIR HOME
IN SAULT STE. MARIE.

Steve says YOU NEED BIGGER
BANDWIDTH FOR THAT, MR. MAYOR,
DON'T YOU?

Christian says WE ARE LOOKING AT EXACTLY THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.
WE HAVE SOME PRETTY GOOD
INFRASTRUCTURE IN SAULT STE.
MARIE FOR BANDWIDTH, WE HAVE
REALLY GOOD REDUNDANCY IN SAULT
STE. MARIE BECAUSE WE HAVE
ACCESS TO BOTH SIDES OF THE
BORDER.
STEVE, MY POINT IS, WE ARE AS A
COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW ASKING, WHAT
KIND OF... WHAT KIND OF
TECHNOLOGY DO WE HAVE TO EMBRACE
SO WE HELP BREAK DOWN THESE
BORDERS AND HELP PEOPLE MOVE
MORE EASILY AND FRANKLY WHERE
THEY WANT AND NOT HAVE
EMPLOYMENT BARRIERS.
I THINK EMPLOYMENT BARRIERS ARE
FALLING AND THAT'S AN
OPPORTUNITY.

Steve says 705 YOU REFERRED TO
IS THE AREA CODE THERE.
I PRESUME THAT'S WHY...

Christian says THAT'S RIGHT.
REFUGEE 705, 705 IS THE AREA CODE.

Charles says YOU WERE
TALKING ABOUT INCENTIVES FOR
PEOPLE TO RETURN TO NORTHERN AND
RURAL COMMUNITIES.
HOW'S THIS?
AS A PERSON UNDER 24 YOU'RE MORE
LIKELY TO GET A JOB IN NORTHERN
ONTARIO THAN SOUTHERN ONTARIO.
HOW'S ABOUT THIS FOR AN
INCENTIVE.
IN MANY CAREER PATHS YOU CAN
ACTUALLY MAKE MORE MONEY WORKING
IN NORTHERN ONTARIO DOING THE
EXACT SAME JOB.
ONE OF MY FAVOURITE DATA SOURCES
IS THE SURVEY THAT STATS CAN
PUTS OUT.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR YOUR
CAREER PATH, IF YOU'RE A
PROFESSIONAL NURSE ON AVERAGE
YOU MAKE MORE IN NORTHERN THAN
SOUTHERN ONTARIO.
IF YOU'RE IN THE HEALTH SUPPORT
SERVICES, PERSONAL SUPPORT
WORKERS, THOSE TYPES, YOU MAKE
MORE MONEY IN NORTHERN ONTARIO
THAN SOUTHERN ONTARIO.
IF YOU'RE OFFICE ADMINISTRATION
OR SECRETARIAL SUPPORT OR OFFICE
MANAGERS, YOU MAKE MORE MONEY IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO THAN SOUTHERN
ONTARIO.
HOW'S THAT FOR AN INCENTIVE?

Steve says LET ME BE DEVIL'S
ADVOCATE HERE.
GAS COSTS MORE.
FOOD CASTS MORE.
FURTHER AWAY FROM THE AIR CANADA
CENTRE.

Charles says GAS COSTS MARGINALLY MORE.
FOOD, REMARKABLY, IS PRETTY CLOSE.
THE CPI IN COMMUNITIES LIKE
THUNDER BAY, SUDBURY, THE URBAN
CENTRES WE HAVE IS REASONABLY
CLOSE TO TORONTO.
IT'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT MUCH MORE
EXPENSIVE.
AND REMEMBER HOUSING IS
ONE-THIRD... ONE-THIRD THE COST.

Steve says TELL ME ABOUT,
THERE'S A COUPLE OF TOWNS I READ
ABOUT, WINKLER AND MORDEN,
MANITOBA, WHO ARE DOING SOME
DIFFERENT THINGS AS WELL TO TRY
TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.
WHEN ARE THEY UP TO?

Charles says NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT, AND I'M A
POLICY WONK, SO I LOVE YOU FOR
GOING HERE, THIS IS THE ONE
SINGLE CHANGE THAT THE
PROVINCIAL AND FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT, ONE OR THE OTHER,
THEY DON'T NEED A PARTNERSHIP,
AND IT'S CALLED A NOMINEE
PROGRAM.
WHAT MANITOBA DID IS THEY WERE
VERY SMART, ACCIDENTALLY, I
SUSPECT, BUT VERY SMART.
20 YEARS AGO, MAYBE 25 NOW, THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID TO
VARIOUS PROVINCES, WE'VE GOT BIG
LONG QUEUES TO GET INTO CANADA.
HOW ABOUT WE GIVE YOU A SIDE
ENTRANCE SO YOU CAN GET
ACCELERATED ENTRY?
MANITOBA SAID 15,000.
ONTARIO AT THE TIME SAID 1500,
IF I'M REMEMBERING CORRECTLY.
THEY'RE NODDING, SO I'M GOING
WITH THAT NUMBER.
WHAT MANITOBA THEN DID AFTER
THEY HAD 15,000, WHICH WAS HUGE
COMPARED TO EVERYBODY ELSE, THEY
SAID NOT ONLY ARE WE GOING TO
HAVE 15,000, WE'RE GOING TO
SEPARATE IT DOWN.
MORDEN WILL PICK 15, 20 PEOPLE
OFF THE LIST.
WHO DO YOU NEED IN MORDEN?
WHAT JOBS DO YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW
THAT YOU CANNOT FILL?
NOW YOU GO TO THE LIST THAT
CANADA HAS ALREADY SCREENED,
ALREADY APPROVED, AND YOU PICK
THEM OFF THE LIST.
AND MORDEN HAS GROWN
EXPONENTIALLY AS A RESULT OF
THAT.
WHAT WE NEED IN NORTHERN ONTARIO
IS A NOMINEE PROGRAM TARGETED
SPECIFICALLY TO OUR REGION.

Steve says WHY DON'T WE DO THAT HERE?

Gemma says I WOULD
AGREE THAT THAT WOULD BE
SOMETHING THAT WOULD FIT.
I THINK ABOUT... YOU KNOW, WE'VE
BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT OUR
REFUGEE IMMIGRANTS.
WE HAVE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE THAT
COME IN UNDER THE SKILLED
WORKERS PROGRAM.
THEY'RE COMING IN WITH SKILLS
AND RESOURCES.
WE NEED TO INTEGRATE THOSE
SKILLS INTO OUR LABOUR MARKET
QUICKLY.
WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE
COME IN WITH SKILLS AND
ABILITIES THAT WE'RE NOT TAPPING
INTO.
THEY'RE UNDEREMPLOYED.
SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THEM AS A
POSSIBLE ATTRACTION TO OUR RURAL
COMMUNITIES, WHAT ARE WE
OFFERING?
THE FIRST REASON I'M GOING TO
MOVE TO A COMMUNITY IS FOR A
JOB.
UNLESS I'M LOOKING TO RETIRE.
WE'RE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
LOOKING FOR WORK.
SO WE NEED TO REALLY BE SPECIFIC
AROUND THE SKILLS THAT WE NEED.
NOT NECESSARILY THE TITLES OF
THE JOBS, BUT THE SKILLS THAT WE
NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND START
TAPPING INTO THE SKILLS THAT ARE
COMING IN BECAUSE WE'RE NOT
USING IT EFFECTIVELY.

Wayne says I THINK THE
EXAMPLE FROM MANITOBA IS
EXCELLENT TO REFLECT ON.
NOT ONLY WAS THERE POLICY
OCCURRING AT THE FEDERAL AND
PROVINCIAL LEVEL, BUT THE
MUNICIPALITIES BONDED TOGETHER
AND WORKED COOPERATIVELY.
WE DON'T SEE THAT EXAMPLE
HAPPENING AS MUCH AS WE COULD
AND SHOULD.
THE EXAMPLE OF WORKING TOGETHER,
THE PARTNERSHIPS AND
COLLABORATION IS VERY POWERFUL.

Steve says CAN WE SAY TO NEW
IMMIGRANTS, YES, BY ALL MEANS,
IF YOU WANT TO COME IN THE SIDE
DOOR, AS CHARLES PUT IT, WE
WELCOME YOU BUT YOU'VE GOT TO
STAY IN TIMMINS AND STAY THERE
FOR HOWEVER LONG A PERIOD OF
TIME.
CAN WE DO THAT?

Wayne says IT'S HARD.
THEY HAVE DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES
OF CHOOSING TO LIVE WHERE THEY
WANT TO LIVE.
I THINK IT'S SHOWING PEOPLE THE
OPPORTUNITIES THAT EXIST.

Charles says I THINK WE WORRY TOO MUCH
ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
NEXT, TWO MONTHS, FIVE YEARS
FROM THEN.
IF IT'S A JOB AND FITS FOR THAT
PERSON AND ALLOWS THEM TO
SUSTAIN THEIR FAMILY, THEY'LL
STAY.
IN MORDEN, YOU'RE SEEING THAT.
THEIR RETENTION LEVEL IS
CONSIDERABLY HIGHER BECAUSE WHAT
THEY'VE DONE IS THEY'VE FOUND
PEOPLE THAT WANT A PARTICULAR
TYPE OF LIFESTYLE AND A
PARTICULAR TYPE OF JOB AND
THEY'VE FOUND IT AND MATCHED IT
TO THEM AND THEY'VE WORKED HARD
TO MAKE IT ABOUT THE PERSON
COMING HERE, NOT THE COMMUNITY
WHO NEEDS THEM.

Steve says GOTCHA.
I'VE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT
HERE.
I WANT TO PUT THIS UP ON THE
SCREEN.
CAN WE DO THIS HERE?
THIS IS IMAGE NUMBER ONE.
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE
BEEN DOWN THE ROAD AS A COUNTRY,
EVERYBODY.

An old poster pops up on screen with the title "Canada." It features a heroic style drawing of a young man standing in a field, rolling up his shirt sleeve as a red Canadian flag with the Union Jack in it waves in the wind behind him.

Steve continues IN THE 1890s, OUR GOVERNMENT
WORKED TO CONVINCE EUROPEANS TO
SETTLE AND DEVELOP OUR RURAL
AREAS, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE
ADS THAT CERTAINLY PEOPLE FROM
PLACES LIKE UKRAINE WOULD HAVE
SEEN ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.
ANY LESSONS, GEMMA, YOU THINK WE
CAN LEARN FROM THAT EFFORT AT
THE TURN OF THE CENTURY TO TODAY?

Gemma says I DO
THINK THERE ARE LESSONS.
YOU ASKED THE QUESTION BEFORE,
IS IT OKAY TO DO THAT?
AS AN IMMIGRANT, WHEN I MOVED,
IT WAS OPPORTUNITY.
THE NUMBER ONE REASON WAS
OPPORTUNITY.
AND NOT OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL OR
ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
IT WAS ABOUT OPPORTUNITY FOR A
BRIGHT FUTURE.
AND IF IT MEANT ME BEING A NANNY
AT FIRST AND THEN WEAVING MY WAY
THROUGH A CAREER PATH, THEN
THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO DO.
SO IF YOU SAID TO ME, THIS IS
WHERE YOUR OPPORTUNITY EXISTS,
ABSOLUTELY, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD GO.
AND THEN I WOULD JUST MANOEUVRE
WHERE ELSE I WANTED TO GO ONCE I
GOT SETTLED IN.
I THINK OFFERING AN OPPORTUNITY
FIRST OF ALL WHERE PEOPLE CAN BE
SELF-SUFFICIENT AND BE... AND
SEE THE SUCCESS THAT THEY'RE
ACHIEVING WILL BE SUCCESSFUL IN
ANY REGION.

The caption changes to "Producer: Harrison Lowman, @harrisonlowman."

Steve says I'M AFRAID THAT'S
OUR TIME, FRIENDS.
I'M SO GLAD WE SOLVED THIS
PROBLEM FOR NORTHERN AND RURAL
ONTARIO TONIGHT.
CAN I THANK ALL OUR GUESTS,
CHRISTIAN PROVENZANO THE MAYOR
OF SAULT STE. MARIE.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON TVO TONIGHT.
WAYNE CALDWELL FROM THE
UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.
GEMMA MENDEZ-SMITH FROM THE FOUR
COUNTY LABOUR MARKET PLANNING
BOARD.
AND TEESWATER, ONTARIO.
AND CHARLES CIRTWELL, GOOD TO
HAVE YOU BACK FROM THE NORTHERN
POLICY INSTITUTE AS WELL.
THANKS, EVERYBODY.

Watch: A Northern and Rural Appeal to Newcomers