Transcript: The Age of Networks | Feb 07, 2018

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "The age of networks. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says LIKE MANY PEOPLE
WHEN YOU HEAR THE TERM "SOCIAL
NETWORK" YOU PROBABLY THINK OF
FACEBOOK OR SOME OTHER ONLINE
PLATFORM THAT CONNECTS YOU TO
PEERS, FAMILY AND THE WORLD.
PUT THAT IS JUST A VERY
CONTEMPORARY VERSION OF
SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN AROUND
MUCH LONGER.
THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF HISTORIAN
NIALL FERGUSON'S NEW BOOK. IT'S
CALLED "THE SQUARE AND THE
TOWER: NETWORKS AND POWER FROM
THE FREE MASONS TO FACEBOOK."
AND WE'RE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME
NIALL FERGUSON BACK TO OUR
STUDIO FOR MORE.

A picture of the book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a picture of a golden, lion face door knocker on a black surface.
Niall is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and spotted gray tie.

Steve continues SO GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

Niall says GOOD TO BE BACK HERE, STEVE.

Steve says WE JUST HAVE TO SET
THIS UP A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE
THE LAST TIME WERE YOU WERE
HERE WAS TO TALK TO US ABOUT
YOUR 1,000 PAGE VOLUME 1 OF
HENRY KISSINGER AND THEN
SOMEHOW, I GATHER, IN THE MIDST
OF WORKING ON VOLUME 2, YOU
THOUGHT YOU WOULD PUNCH OUT JUST
AN IMPERTINENT LITTLE 500 PAGE
BOOK ON THE SQUARE AND THE TOWER.
OKAY, WHAT INSIGHT INTO WRITING
THE KISSINGER BOOK DID YOU GET
ABOUT THIS THAT OBVIOUSLY TOOK
YOU OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION
FOR A LITTLE WHILE ANYWAY?

The caption changes to "Niall Ferguson. Author, 'The square and the tower.'"
Then, it changes again to "Insights from Henry Kissinger."

Niall says THERE IS A CONNECTION AND IN
SOME WAYS I HAD TO WRITE THIS
BOOK BEFORE I COULD EVEN BEGIN
TO WRITE THE SECOND VOLUME OF
KISSINGER.
I HAVE A HYPOTHESIS ABOUT THAT
SECOND BOOK IS THE REASON HENRY
KISSINGER BECAME SO POWERFUL
THIS THE 1970s WAS HE BUILT A
NETWORK THAT WAS UNRIVALED AND
KISSINGER UNDERSTAND BEFORE
OTHER PEOPLE THAT THE WORLD WAS
SHIFTING TO BEING MORE NETWORKED
AND LESS HIERARCHICAL.
WITH A MATTERED WAS THE WHERE
WERE YOU IN RELATION TO THE
PRESIDENT.
SOMEHOW KISSINGER INTUITIVELY
UNDERSTOOD THAT THE FUTURE
BELONGED TO PEOPLE WHO COULD
NETWORK OUTSIDE THE OLD WAY.
PART OF WHAT I DO IS EXPLORE THE
HYPOTHESIS BY SHOWING HOW HIS
NETWORK OPERATED.
THAT WILL BE A THEME OF THE
SECOND VOLUME.
I COULDN'T WRITE THAT UNTIL I
PROPERLY UNDERSTAND THE THEORY
AND HISTORIC OF NETWORKS.
THIS IS A BOOK ATTEMPTING TO
EDUCATE ME AS WELL AS THE
READER WITH HOW SOCIAL
NETWORKS OPERATE, WHERE THEY
CAME FROM AND TO SHOW THAT
SILICON VALLEY DID NOT INVENT THEM.

Steve says I WILL GO OFF THE
PATH OF THIS BOOK JUST FOR A
SECOND ONLY IN SO FAR AS TO ASK,
SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE EITHER
YOUR WIFE OR YOUR PUBLISHER OR
SOMEBODY MUST HAVE SAID WAIT
SECOND YOU ARE SUPPOSED IT DO
TWO BOOKS ON HENRY KISSINGER AND
NOW YOU WANT TO DO 500 PAGES.
NIALL, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?

The caption changes to "Niall Ferguson, @nfergus."

Niall says THIS IS MY 15th BOOK AND MY
PUBLISHERS AND MY WIFE KNOW THAT
ONE THING LEADS TO ANOTHER AND
INTELLECTUALLY, I HAD TO MAKE
THIS DETOUR AND I AM REALLY GLAD
I MADE IT.
IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY FUN BOOK TO
WRITE BECAUSE I WAS ABLE TO
DELVE INTO STUFF THAT I HAD BE
ABOUT INTERESTED IN FOR DECADES
BUT HAD NEVER DARED TO REALLY
INVESTIGATE.
A GOOD EXAMPLE BEING THE
ILLUMINATI.
NOW IF YOU GO ONLINE DO SOME
GOOGLING AND ENTER THE CRAZY
WORLD OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES YOU
WILL FIND ALL KINDS OF
FASCINATING CONNECTIONS FROM
HENRY KISSINGER TO GEORGE SOROS
TO THE ROTHSCHILD'S TO THE
ILLUMINATI TO ALIENS FROM OUTER SPACE.
IT'S A KIND OF CRAZY WORLD.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Niall says NOT MANY SERIOUS HISTORIANS DARE
TO VENTURE NO THAT WORLD AND TO
SEE WHETHER THERE HAD EVER WERE
ILLUMINATI.
I THOUGHT WHAT FUN TO ACTUALLY
WRITE THE HISTORY OF THE SOCIAL
NETWORKS AND THE SECRET
SOCIETIES THAT BY AND LARGE ONLY
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS WRITE
ABOUT.
IP GLAD I MADE THIS DETOUR AND
NOW I AM READY FOR VOLUME 2.
I NEEDED A MENTAL HEALTH BREAK.

The caption changes to "Overlooked by history."

Steve says GOOD.
BECAUSE WE WANT YOU BACK HERE
FOR VOLUME 2.
SENSE YOU MENTIONED THE
ILLUMINATI AND DO YOU DO A
CHAPTER IN THE BOOK I DON'T WANT
TO ASSUME EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO
THEY ARE.
LET'S START WITH WHO WERE THEY
AND WHAT TO DO THEY WANT TO DO
IN THIS WORLD?

The caption changes to "The mystery of the illuminati."

Niall says THERE ARE TWO ANSWERS
TO THAT QUESTION.
THERE IS THE CONSPIRACY THEORY
ANSWER WHICH SOME OF YOUR
VIEWERS WILL BE FAMILIAR WITH
OH, I DON'T KNOW FROM DAN BROWN
OR INTEREST SOME OTHER SOURCES
OF POPULAR CULTURE. IN THE POP
CULTURE VERSION THERE IS A
SINISTER SECRET ALL-POWERFUL
SOCIETY THAT CONTROLS
EVERYTHING FROM THE FEDERAL
RESERVE TO THE WORLD ECONOMIC
FORUM AND WE ARE PEAR PUPPETS ON
THE ENDS OF THE STRINGS THAT
THEY CONTROL.
THE HISTORY ANSWER IS THE
CORRECT ANSWER STA IN THE
1770s IN SOUTH GERMANY IN
BAVARIA A SECRET SOCIETY WAS
INDEED FORMED WHICH WAS INDEED
BUT THE GOAL OF THAT SECRET
SOCIETY WAS TO INFILTRATE THE
FREEMASONS, THE MASONIC LODGES
OF THE AURA AND TO SPREAD
THROUGH THAT ERA ENLIGHTENMENT
EVEN IDEAS THAT QUESTIONED
CHRISTIANITY.
THIS EXISTED.
IT DIDN'T LAST LONG.
BY THE 1780s WAS CLOSED DOWN
BY THE BAVARIAN AUTHORITIES WHO
SAW IT AS SUSPICIOUS.
BY THE TIME OF THE FRENCH
REVOLUTION THE ILLUMINATI HAD
BE DESTROYED AND THEIR FOUNDER
HAD RETREATED INTO EXILE IF
COBOURG.
END OF STORY.
THE STORY KIND OF RESUMES AGAIN
AFTER THE FRENCH REVOLUTION WHEN
OPPONENTS OF THE REVOLUTION
START TO CLAIM THAT THE
ILLUMINATI AND INDEED THE FREE
MASONS CALLED THE FRENCH
REVOLUTION.
THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF A
CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT HAS RUN
AND RUN RIGHT DOWN TO THE
PRESENT DAY INSPIRING AUTHORS
AND INDEED CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.
FROM MY VANTAGE POINT THIS IS A
FASCINATING EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE
BOOK IS WITH.
THAT SOCIAL NETWORKS SOME SECRET
AND SOME MASSIVE AND OPEN HAVE
EXISTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY BUT
WE DON'T HAVE VERY GOOD
HISTORIES OF THOSE SOCIAL
NETWORKS PARTLY BECAUSE
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS DRAWN TO
THE SUBJECT PARTLY BECAUSE IT'S
REALLY HARD TO DO BECAUSE SECRET
SOCIETIES DON'T LEAVE ARCHIVES
WITH YOU KNOW THE ILLUMINATI
ARCHIVE THAT YOU CAN JUST GO AND
STUDY.
IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE HARD TO
TRACK DOWN THE DOCUMENTS THAT
REVEAL THE TRUE HISTORY OF THE
ILLUMINATI.
SAME APPLIES TO FREE MASONRY.
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS IT WAS HARD
TO WRITE ANY SERIOUS HISTORY OF
FREE MASONRY BECAUSE THE LODGES
KEPT THEIR ARCHIVES CLOSED.
THE ROTHSCHILD BANK OF AT ONE
POINT THAT WAS KNOW SUBJECT THAT
ATTRACTED CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
PARTLY BECAUSE THE ARCHIVES WERE
INACCESSIBLE.
IT'S ONLY RELATIVELY RECENTLY
THAT SOME OF THESE SOCIETIES
HAVE BEEN OPEN TO THE KIND OF
SERIOUS AC DEMAND YES, HE CAN
RESEARCH THAT I BRIEF IN AND THE
SQUARE IN THE TOWER IS AN
ATTEMPT TO SAY YOU KNOW WHAT
THIS IS SOME TRUTH TO TEASE
STORIES BUT IT'S VERY, VERY HE
DISPARATE FROM THE CONSPIRACY
THEORY VERSION THAT YOU WILL GET ONLINE.

Steve says WHY DO YOU SUPPOSE
THE ILLUMINATI STORY PERSISTS TO THIS DAY?

Niall says I THINK WE ARE ATTRACTED TO
CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
I THINK IT'S PARTLY GRATIFYING
FOR PEOPLE TO IMAGINE THAT
BEHIND THE NEWS HEADLINES AND
THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA THERE IS A
REAL STORY.
IT TURNS OUT THAT A REALLY HIGH
PROPORTION OF PEOPLE IF THE
UNITED STATES BELIEVE SOME
VERSION OF THE PROPOSITION THAT
BEHIND THE SCENES A SECRET ELITE
CONTROL HE.

Steve says TRILATERAL
COMMISSION OR WHATEVER IT IS.

Niall says RIGHT RESEARCH THE THERE IS A
VERY POWERFUL SET OF CONSPIRACY
THEORIES THAT STILL ATTACH TO
GEORGE SOROS THE HEAD FUND
MANAGER.
I THINK PART OF THE REASON AT
THAT THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
ARE SO PREVALENT IS THAT THEY
SATISFY SOME PSYCHOLOGICAL
DESIRE TO BELIEVE THAT WE REALLY
KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
THE OTHER REASON IS THAT THERE
IS SOME KERNEL OF TRUTH.
IT'S NOT LIKE GEORGE SOROS
EXISTS.
HE DOES.
HE IS INCREDIBLY RICH.
HE DOES HAVE SOME POWER AND
INFLUENCE.
WE SAW HIM AT DAVOS THIS VERY
WEEK AT THE WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM
ESSENTIALLY CALL OUT PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
THERE IS SOME KERNEL OF TRUTH
THAT GEORGE SOROS IS A POWERFUL
AND INFLUENTIAL MAN AND WHEN YOU
SEE HIM IN DAVOS AT THE WORLD
ECONOMIC FORUM AND HE IS RIGHT
THERE AS ONE OF THE MOST
POWERFUL NETWORKS IN THE WORLD.
IT'S NOT AS POWERFUL AS
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TONED SAY.
I HAVE BEEN TO THE WORLD
ECONOMIC FORUM.
BELIEVE ME THEY DON'T CONTROL
EVERYTHING.
THERE ISN'T A MEETING WHERE THEY
SIT DOWN AND PLAN THE COMING
YEAR AND HOW THE ELECTIONS WILL
TURN OUT.
DISAPPOINTING IT TURNS OUT THAT
THE WORLD FINANCIAL ELITE
DOESN'T REALLY EVEN CONTROL THE
FINANCIAL SYSTEM VERY WELL.
REMEMBER THE FINANCIAL CRIMINALS
OF THE TRUST ME THEY DIDN'T PLAN THAT.

Steve says INDEED.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE FREE
MASONS IN THAT CHAIR NOT TOO
LONG AGO WE HAD SOMEBODY WHO
WROTE A BOOK ABOUT A POLITICAL
POLITICIAN UNTIL THE HISTORY OF
THIS PROVINCE AND POINTED OUT AT
THAT NOT THAT LONG AGO I DON'T
KNOW MAYBE 50 YEARS AGO 80 TO
90 percent OF THE MEMBERS WHO WERE
PART OF THE CABINET OF THE
GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO WERE FREE
MASONS.
THERE IS A SUGGESTION SOMEHOW OR
THERE WILL BE AMONGST SOME THERE
IS SOMETHING NEFARIOUS ABOUT THAT.
ARE THEY RIGHT TO BE SUSPICIOUS ABOUT THAT?

Niall says I THINK THEY ARE WRONG AND
THAT NEFARIOUS ISN'T THE WORD
BUT IF YOU LOOKED AT THE HISTORY
OF SCOTLAND WHERE I COME FROM IN
THE SAME KIND OF PERIOD LET'S
SAY THROUGH THE 19th CENTURY
INTO THE FIRST HALF OF THE
20th CENTURY WOULD YOU FIND A
SIMILAR STORY BECAUSE FREE
MASONRY WHICH HAD ITS ROOTS IN
SCOTLAND AND SPREAD TO WHEREVER
THE SCOTS WERE NUMEROUS, CANADA,
WAS A BIG PART OF THE SOCIAL
LIFE OF MEN NOTICE MEN, IN THAT
PEED.
IT GETS GOING UNTIL THE 18th
CENTURY AS A SOCIAL MOVEMENT.
IT'S A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN
DINE TOGETHER, EXCHANGE IDEAS
TOGETHER, REGARDLESS OF THEIR
SOCIAL CLASS.
THE THEORY WAS THAT RANK DIDN'T
MATTER WHETHER WERE YOU AN
ARISTOCRAT OR A COMMONER AND
RELIGIOUS DIVISIONS WERE ALSO
UNDERPLAYED BECAUSE OF FREE
MASONRY CONNECTION TO DAYSON OR
ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN SECT.
IT'S A IMPORTANT NETWORK ON BOTH
SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC.
TROUPE IN THE UNITED STATES,
TOO, AS I SHOW IN THE BOOK.
VERIFY BIG PART OF THE AMERICAN
REVOLUTION IS CONNECTED TO
MASONIC LODGES.
NEFARIOUS I DON'T THINK SO.
IN THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE NOT
MEETING AT THESE LODGES AND
PLOTTING TO DEFRAUD THE PUBLIC.

Steve says THEIR EYE IS ON THE
MONEY BEINGS RIGHT.

Niall says THERE IS OBVIOUSLY MONEY
INVOLVED BECAUSE MANY OF PEOPLE
IN MASONIC LODGES IN PISS AND I
THINK AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE
NETWORKS BUILT FOR THE MASONIC
LODGES THERE WAS A CERTAIN
PRIVILEGED ELITE.
IF YOU WERE IN THAT NETWORK YOU
HAD AN ADVANTAGE.
IN POLITICS AND IN BUSINESS.
BUT THIS IS THE KIND OF
ADVANTAGE THAT YOU ENCOUNTER IN
OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD THROUGH
OTHER KINDS OF SOCIAL NETWORKS.
CHINESE HAVE A WORD FOR THIS.
RAN SHE.
CONNECTED OR CONNECTIONS THE
WAIT THAT CHINA WORKS TODAY IS
SOMEWHAT SIMILAR.
IF YOU ARE IN THE NETWORK, IF
YOU ARE CONNECTED THEN YOU WILL
GET THE DEALS AND YOU WILL HAVE
THE ACCESS.
I THINK ONE OF THE POINTS I MAKE
IN THE BOOK IS THAT THIS IS THE
WAY AT THAT HUMANS WORK.
IT JUST VARIES FROM PERIOD TO
PERIOD HOW THE NETWORK IS
ORGANIZED.
FREE MASONRY HAD ITS EMPLOYER IN
DAYS TO THE MID-20th SENT RIP
AND NOW WE FIND IT'S PRETTY MUCH
GONE.
AND CEASE TO BE A FACTOR IN
CANADIAN, AMERICAN, BRITISH
POLITICS.

Steve says THEY ARE STILL
AROUND RAISING MONEY FOR HOSPITALS.

Niall says ABSOLUTELY.
THEY WERE NOT WHAT THEY ONCE
WERE AS A POLITICAL NETWORK.
DIFFERENT THINGS HAVE TAKEN THE
PLACE OF THAT.
AND WHAT'S FASCINATING TO ME
IS THE WAY IN WHICH SOCIAL
NETWORKS ARE CHANGING MORPHING
AND NEW NETWORKS CAN COME
LOOPING BE AND QUITE QUICKLY
DISPLACE THE OLD ONES.

Steve says LET'S TALK WITH THE
BEST EXAMPLE OF THAT, FACEBOOK.
WE HAVE A SOCIAL NETWORK THAT
CONNECTS ALMOST ANYBODY WHO
WANT... BILLIONS, RIGHT R
BILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO
BE A PART OF THIS.

Niall says MORE THAN 2 BILLION.

Steve says MORE THAN 2 BILLION.
WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE
CONSEQUENCES OF ONE SOCIAL
NETWORK LIKE FACEBOOK HAVING
SUCH AN UTTERLY DOMINANT
POSITION IN OUR WORLD TODAY?

The caption changes to "The Facebook era."

Niall says WELL, IF YOU ARE MARK
ZUCKERBERG THAT QUESTION IS
CERTAINLY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO
HE WOULD HAVE SAID WELL, IT'S
AWESOME.
EVERYTHING IS AWESOME ABOUT THIS
BECAUSE THE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE
CONNECTED THE MORE LIKELY WE ARE
TO SOLVE ALL THE GREAT PROBLEMS
THAT FACE OUR PLANET AND HIS
PROJECT FOR A WHILE WAS BUILD A
GLOBAL COMMUNITY.
THAT WAS ONE MUCH HIS FAITH
PHRASES AND I THINK SILICON
VALLEY GENERALLY BELIEVED THAT
IF WE JUST CONNECTED REMOTELY
THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
THE SHOCK HORROR REVELATION IS
THAT THERE ARE RISKS TO VERY
HIGH LEVELS OF CONNECTEDNESS
THAT IF YOU BUILD A GIANT ONLINE
SOCIAL NETWORK OF 2 BILLION PLUS
PEOPLE IT WON'T JUST BE A VENUE
FOR CAT VIDEOS TO BE SHARED.
WHAT BECAME CLEAR IN 2016 WAS A
NETWORK WORLD HAS BIG DOWN SIDE
RISK.
ONE OF THEM WHICH I THINK IS A
VERY STRIKING FEATURE IN THE
U.S. BUT I DON'T THINK IS
UNIQUELY U.S. IS POLARIZATION.
THE PEOPLE ON LARGE OR SMALL
SOCIAL NETWORKS DON'T JUST
CONGREGATE TOGETHER IN ONE
BIG CLUSTER.
WHAT TENDS TO HAPPEN IS A
CERTAIN SELF-SEGREGATION.
IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY IT'S
AN IDEOLOGICAL DISTINCTION.
PEOPLE WHO ARE LIBERALS
ESSENTIALLY SHARE WITH PEOPLE
WHO ARE LIBERALS AND
CONSERVATIVES DO THE SAME.
THERE IS AMAZINGLY LITTLE
TRAFFIC BETWEEN THESE CLUSTERS.
THE ONE BIG PROBLEM I THINK HAS
ARISEN FROM THE PRESENCE ON MY
NETWORKS IS THE POLAR STATION
THAT WAS ALREADY THERE IN OUR
POLITICAL LIFE IS GETTING WORSE
BECAUSE THE ALGORITHM
ENCOURAGES, ENCOURAGES US TO
HANG OUT WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIKE-MINDED.

Steve says THE ECHO CHAMBER.

Niall says IN THE FILTER BUBBLE.
THAT'S ONE PROBLEM R I WILL
MENTION ONE MORE WHICH I THINK
IS VERY RELEVANT TO YOUR VIEWERS
AND THAT IS THE WAY IN WHICH
CRAZY STUFF GOES VIRAL.
THERE IS NO LAW THAT SAYS ONLY
GOOD THINGS GO VIRAL.
ACTUALLY IT TURNS OUT AT THAT
QUITE OFTEN BAD THINGS ARE MORE
LIKELY TO GO VIRAL BECAUSE WE
ARE INTERESTED IN FAKE NEWS AND
IN EXTREME VIEWS. THE ONE
THING THAT FACEBOOK HAS
TURNED OUT TO BE IS A FANTASTIC
TRANSMISSION MECHANISM FOR
DOWNRIGHT LIES AND A GOOD
EXAMPLE WAS THE STORY THAT THE
POPE HAD HAD ENDORSED DONALD
TRUMP IN 2016.
PEOPLE FOUND THAT FASCINATING
PERHAPS UNDERSTANDABLY.
IT WAS ONLY ONE PROBLEM.
IT WAS COMPLETELY UNTRUE.
BY THE TIME AN IDEA LIKE THAT
HAS BEEN SHARED BETWEEN WELL,
PROBABLY NOT MANY AS 2 BILLION
PEOPLE LET'S SAY 150 MILLION
THAT IS STILL POTENTIALLY
INFLUENTIAL ON AN ELECTION
OUTCOME.
ROUGHLY THE SAME NUMBER OF
PEOPLE AS VOTED IN IF THE U.S.
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2016
SAW FAKE NEWS THAT WAS GENERATED
BY THE RUSSIANS.
THAT'S A STAGGERING THOUGHT.
THAT WAS FORGOT PART OF MARK
ZUCKERBERG'S PLAN WHEN FACEBOOK
WAS SET UP I AM PRETTY SURE OF
THAT.

Steve says WE ARE SURE IT HAD
NO IMPACT ON THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.
RIGHT?

Niall says I DON'T THINK IT WAS DECISIVE
IN THE SENSE THAT ALTHOUGH THAT
SOUNDS LIKE A BIG IMPACT WHEN
YOU MEASURE THE SHARE OF ALL THE
CONTENT ON FACEBOOK DURING THE
ELECTION THAT WAS ACCOUNTED FOR
BY THE RUSSIANS IT'S TINY
BECAUSE CONCEPT ON FACEBOOK IS
JUST MIND-BOGGLINGLY VOLUME UM
US IN.
BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF THINGS
GET SHARED ON TYPHOON IN THE
SPACE OF A YEAR.

Steve says YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S
INFLUENTIAL.

Niall says IN THAT EXTRAORDINARY PERIOD
AROUND DONALD TRUMP AVENUE RISE
TO POWER ALTHOUGH THE RUSSIANS
WERE CERTAINLY PLAYING IN THE
FACEBOOK SPACE THEY WERE A
RELATIVELY SMALL PART OF WHAT
WAS BEING GENERATED.
MOST OF THE CONTENT INCLUDING
MOST OF THE FAKE NEWS WAS
DOMESTIC IN ORIGIN.
IT WAS BEING GENERATED BY
ORDINARY AMERICAN USERS OF
FACEBOOK.
I THINK WHAT WE SHOULD REALIZE
HERE IS THAT NOT THAT THE
RUSSIANS ARE DECIDED THE
ELECTION, I THINK THAT GOES TOO
FAR BUT THAT FACEBOOK WAS
DECIDES YOU HAVE.
NO FACEBOOK NO TRUMP. WITHOUT
FACEBOOK I AM PRETTY SURE HE
COULD NOT HAVE WON THAT
ELECTION.
PEOPLE TEND TO EMPHASIZE IT WAS
THE CAMPAIGN'S USE OF FACEBOOK
ADVERTISING TOOL THAT REALLY
DECIDED THE OUTCOME AND THE
CLINTON CAMPAIGN BY COMPARISON
WAS FLAT-FOOTED DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF FACEBOOK
ADVERTISING.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT THINGS WE ALL HAVE TO
UBS CANADIANS AS WELL AS
AMERICANS BRITS, TOO, INDEED
ANYBODY IN ANY DEMOCRACY IS THAT
THE FACEBOOK ADVERTISING IS NOW
THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON TOOL
IN ANY ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

Steve says YOU CALL IT A WEAPON.
INTERESTING CHOICE OF WORDS.

Niall says ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S A MUCH MORE POWERFUL WEAPON
THAN TELEVISION ADVERTISING
BECAUSE IT'S SO PRECISE AND IT
GIVES YOU INSTANT FEEDBACK.
YOU CAN TELL WHICH ADVERT ARE
HITTING WHICH DEMOGRAPHIC MOST
EFFECTIVELY.
THIS WAS VERY OBVIOUS IN THE
BREXIT CAMPAIGN WHICH PRECEDED
TRUMP'S VICTORY.
THE LEAVE CAMPAIGN, THE
ANTI-EUROPEAN CAMPAIGN
UNDERSTAND THE FACEBOOK TOOL.
AND IT WAS ABLE TO CALIBRATE ITS
ADVERTISING TARGET ITS
ADVERTISING AT THE PEOPLE THAT
IT REALLY WANTED TO INFLUENCE.
THIS IS A MUCH MORE POWERFUL
WEAPON IN POLITICS THAN PEOPLE
GENERALLY APPRECIATE.
BELIEVE ME FACEBOOK REALIZED,
WOW WE CAN MAKE A LOT OF MONEY
FROM THIS KIND OF ADVERTISING.
I THINK THIS HAS CHANGED THE
PUBLIC SPHERE.
THE PLACE WHERE IDEAS ARE
EXCHANGED HAS BEEN IRREVOCABLY
ALTERED BY THE EMERGENCE OF
GIANT ONLINE SOCIAL NETWORKS AND
I DON'T THINK WE FULLY
COMPREHEND HOW BIG THAT CHANGE
IS.

Steve says SHALL WE DO AN
EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK.

Niall says BY ALL MEANS.

Steve says LET'S. SHELDON, BRING
THIS EXCERPT UP IF YOU WOULD.
HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY
ABOUT THIS...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Digital inequality." The quote reads "Facebook promised to create an interconnected world of netizens. But its structure was profoundly inegalitarian. Facebook has 15,724 employees and close to 2 billion users, but only the tiniest fractions of these groups actually own Facebook stock. The global social network, in other words, is itself owned by an exclusive network of Silicon Valley insiders."
Quoted from Niall Ferguson, "The square and the tower." 2018.

Steve says THAT DOES SOUND
NEFARIOUS. YOU MEAN IT TO?

Niall says AGAIN IT'S NOT NEFARIOUS.
THEY DIDN'T SET OUT TO ACHIEVE
THIS BUT THE REALITY OF THE WAY
THAT THESE NETWORK PLATFORMS
HAVE EVOLVED IS THAT THEY
QUICKLY BECOME QUASI-MONOPOLIES.
NO OTHER SOCIAL NETWORK THAT CAN
COMPETE FACEBOOK, MYSPACES ARE
FORGOT BE.
AND BECAUSE THEY ARE RELATIVELY
EASY TO RUN THEY DON'T REQUIRE
THE EMPLOYEES THAT GENERAL MOTOR
REQUIRED.
THEY ARE QUITE SMALL.
THE MONEY THAT FLOWS IN FROM
ONLINE ADVERTISERS IS
MIND-BLOWING.
WE ARE TALKING BILLIONS HE HAVE
QUARTER AND THE FOUNDER HAS A
PRETTY LARGE SHARE OF THE EQUITY
NOT THAT MARK ZUCKERBERG IS
ABOUT TO GIVE A FOOL AN TRUE
CARNEGIE AND GIVE IT ALL AWAY.
LIKE AMAZON THE FOUNDER HAS AN
ENORMOUS STAKE OF AN INCREDIBLY
VALUABLE COMPANY ONE.
MOST VALUABLE COMPANIES IN THE
WORLD AND YET WE HAVE KIND OF
BELIEVED THAT FACEBOOK HAS MADE
THE WORLD FLATTER.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S ONE.
GREAT ILLUSIONS OF THE NETWORK
WORLD.
THAT WE ARE ALL NET SENSE.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NETWORK
STRUCTURE NOT EGALITARIAN AT
ALL.
A FEW PEOPLE HAVE CRAZY NUMBERS
OF CONNECTIONS.
LOOK AT HOW MANY FOLLOW EARLIES
DONALD TRUMP HAS COMPARED WITH
LITTLE OLD US.
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY VERY FEW
PEOPLE WHO READ A HUGE CHUNK OF
THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE ONLINE
SOCIAL NETWORK.
AND THE REST ARE JUST THE MUGS.
WE ARE THE MUGS WHO GAVE MARK
ZUCKERBERG OUR DATA.
WE GAVE HIM OUR DATA.
AND THAT IS REALLY WHY THIS IS
SUCH A VALUABLE COMPANY T KNOLLS
MORE ABOUT US THAN WE DO.
IT CAN PREDICT THAT WE WILL DID
BETTER THAN WE CAN.
THAT'S AN ASTONISHING STATE OF
AFFAIRS.
I DON'T THINK IT'S NEFARIOUS.
ONE HAS TO TAKE ONE ANTICIPATE
HAT OFF TO MARK ZUCKERBERG AS A
BUSINESSMAN.
HE HAD TO MAKE SOME VERY BIG
JUDGMENT CALLS AS FACEBOOK GREW
FROM WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY A
LITTLE SHARING PLATFORM FOR
HARVARD UNDERGRADS AND HE MADE
THOSE BIG CALLS AND HE GOT THEM
RIGHT.
I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO HIM AS A
BUSINESSMAN BUT I THINK HE
UNDERESTIMATED AS MOST OF US DID
WHAT THE IMPLICATIONS WERE OF
BUILDING SUCH AN ENORMOUS
PLATFORM.
NOW THE BIGGEST NETWORK PROBABLY
THERE'S EVER BEEN.
HE WAS OVEROPTIMISTIC.
HE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE THIS
GLOBAL COMMUNITY AND THEN WE
WOULD ALL SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE
AND WHAT HE FORGOT WAS 2016.

Steve says YOU THINK THERE IS
ANY SENSE MUCH REMORSE AMONG THE
PEOPLE AT FACEBOOK?

Niall says YES.
CHANGED MASSIVELY IN THE
RELATIVELY SHORT SPACE OF TIME
THAT I HAVE LIVED IN NORTHERN
CALIFORNIA THERE.
WAS TREMENDOUS HUBRIS AND
ARROGANCE BACK IN THE PERIOD
BEFORE THE ELECTION.
AND IT ONLY WAS AFTER THE
ELECTION AND SLOWLY THAT PEOPLE
CAME OUT OF DENIAL AND NOW THERE
IS A KIND OF WHAT HAVE WE DONE
MOVE.
WHAT DID WE DO.
AND A LOT OF FORMER FACEBOOK
PEOPLE ARE PUBLICLY BEATING
THEMSELVES UP ABOUT THIS.
I WROTE A PIECE IN THE
"GLOBE and MAIL" ABOUT THIS
ADMITTING THAT THEY
UNDERESTIMATED THE DOWN SIDE
RISK CERTAINLY FROM A POLITICAL
POINT OF VIEW AND ALSO
ACKNOWLEDGING AND THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT POINT THAT THEY DID
KNOW HOW ADDICTIVE FACEBOOK WAS
GOING TO BE.
AND FOR THOSE OF YOUR VIEWERS
WATCHING WITH ADOLESCENT KIDS
THIS IS NOT NEWS.
FACEBOOK IS A VICTORY.
AND A VERY LARGE PROPORTION OF
YOUNGER PEOPLE ARE ON THE
NETWORK AND USE IT COMPULSIVELY
CHECKING ALL THE TIME ON THEIR
SMARTPHONES AND OTHER DEVICES
AND I THINK ONE IMPORTANT
REALIZATION FOR ME OVER THE LAST
12 MONTHS IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO
BUILT THIS NETWORK KNEW IT WAS
ADDICTIVE AND DESIGNED IT TO
BE ADDICTIVE AND THE CONFESSIONS
IN THAT RESPECT ARE IMPORTANT
BECAUSE WE ARE ALL GRADUALLY
REALIZING THAT FOR TEENAGERS
ESPECIALLY ONLINE SOCIAL
NETWORKS ARE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH
YOUR MENTAL HEALTH.
MORE AND MORE EVIDENCE IS COME
OUT THAT A GENERATION HAS COME
INTO EXISTENCE WITH SMARTPHONES,
WITH ONLINE NETWORKS AND THAT
GENERATION OF TEENAGERS IS
MISERABLE.
COMPARED WITH THE HAPPY
TEENAGERS WE WERE, STEVE, IF WE
HAD NONE MUCH THIS TO WORRY
ABOUT.

Steve says WE WENT OUTSIDE AND
PLAYED ROAD HOCKEY.

Niall says WE HAD AN EQUIVALENT WHICH
WAS VIOLENT VERSION OF SOCCER IN
WHICH CONTACT WAS ENCOURAGED.
PUT WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T WORRY
WHETHER PEOPLE WERE LIKING OUR
LATEST POSTS ON FACEBOOK. I FEEL
SORRY FOR THE TEENAGERS... I
HAVE TEENAGE KIDS AND I LOOK AT
WHAT THIS HAS DONE TO THEM AND
I THINK, YOU KNOW WHAT... THAT
THEY KNEW IN THE DESIGN OF THE
PLATFORMS THAT THEY WOULD BE
ADDICTIVE.
THAT'S REPREHENSIBLE AND I THINK
WE SHOULD ALL REASSESS OUR VIEW
OF HOW KIDS SHOULD USE THESE
PLATFORMS. PERSONALLY, AS I
BRING UP MY YOUNGEST CHILDREN,
I HAVE A SIX-YEAR-OLD RIGHT NOW
AND A THREE-MONTH-OLD.
THOSE GUYS ARE GOING NOWHERE
NEAR SCREENS UNTIL THEY'RE
WELL INTO MATURITY.

Steve says ARE YOU ON FACEBOOK?

Niall says I AM.

Steve says DO YOU USE IT A LOT?

Niall says NO.
I ACTUALLY DON'T.
I USE IT PASSIVELY.
I WILL TELL YOU HOW IT WORKS.
I USE TWITTER EVERY TIME I
WRITE ANYTHING.
I'LL TWEET OUR INTERVIEW SO THAT
PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED CAN
SEE THE CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD
AND THEN AUTOMATICALLY THAT
TWEET WILL APPEAR ON MY FACEBOOK
FEED.
I NEVER CHECK FACEBOOK TO SEE
WHAT MY FRIENDS, KIDS ARE UP TO.
I AM DONE WITH THAT.
I THINK IT WAS ALMOST A LITTLE
BIT WEIRD AND SEC AND NOW I JUST
LIKE TO HEAR FROM THEM IN THE
REGULAR WAY MEET, HAVE A DRINK,
TALK IN REAL-TIME IN REAL SPACE.

Steve says WHAT A CRAZY IDEA.

Niall says IT TURNS OUT TO BE REALLY
GOOD FOR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH.
STATE OF THE UNION CAMPAIGN 2016
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN FOR A
SECOND THERE IS A KIND OF IRONY
HERE IN AS MUCH AS THESE PEOPLE
YOU WRITE ABOUT ALL ARE THIS
CALIFORNIA AND CLEARLY THEY WERE
ALL FOR HILLARY CLINTON THE
BIGGEST OF THE BLUE STATES AND
FOR SOME REASON HER TEAM FAILED
TO EXPLOIT THE POSSIBILITIES OF
FACEBOOK.
SHE DIDN'T BECOME THE PRESIDENT.
TURNED OUT ASS BACKWARDS FOR
THAT WOMAN.
YOU CAN HEAR THEIR HEADS
EXPLODING ALL OVER NORTHERN
CALIFORNIA THE MORNING AFTER THE
ELECTION AND I THINK THERE ARE
TWO REASONS WHY THAT HAPPENED.
WITH UP WAS A CERTAIN
COMPLACENCY.
BECAUSE AFTER ALL HADN'T BARACK
OBAMA PIONEERED SOCIAL MEDIA IN
2008 WHEN JOHN McCAIN DIDN'T
EVEN HAVE EMAIL?
I THINK THERE WAS AN ASSUMPTION
AMONGST DEMOCRATS THAT THEY
OWNED SILICON VALLEY THEREFORE
HOW COULD IT POSSIBLY BE USED
AGAINST THEM.
THE SECOND THING THEY DID WAS
UNDERESTIMATE TRUMP CONSISTENTLY
THROUGHOUT THE ELECTION
CAMPAIGN.
THEY ASSUMED THAT THIS CRUDE,
LOUD-MOUTHED SON OF A GUN
COULDN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND THE
FINER POINTS OF SOCIAL MEDIA.
BRAD PASCAL WHO WAS TRUMP'S
SOCIAL MEDIA DIRECTOR SAID
SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING
TOWARDS THE END OF LAST YEAR.
HE SAID ALL THESE LIBERAL TYPES
DESIGNED THE SOCIAL NETWORKS AND
IT NEVER OCCURRED TO THEM THAT
THOSE COULD BE USED BY
CONSERVATIVES AGAINST THEM AND I
THINK THAT WAS DEAD RIGHT.
IT NEVER OCCURRED TO THE FOLKS
AT GOOGLE OR AT FACEBOOK THAT
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN FAR WE'RE
UNDERSTAND HOW TO USE THESE
TOOLS THAN THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN
AND IT CAME AS A TREMENDOUS
SHOCK TO REALIZE AT THAT THE
NETWORK PLATFORM BUILT IN
SILICON VALLEY HAD BEEN TRUMP'S
SECRET WEAPON AND I THINK WE ARE
STILL UNTIL THE MIDST OF AN
INQUIRY INTO WHAT HAPPENED IN
2016.
I THINK THERE IS MORE STILL TO
COME OUT WITH HOW THE NETWORK
PLATFORMS WERE USED BUT THAT'S
THE KEY FACT.
IF THEY HADN'T BEEN THERE AND IF
TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN HADN'T
UNDERSTAND HOW TO USE THEM I AM
PRETTY SURE HILLARY CLINTON
WOULD HAVE WON AND SILICON
VALLEY WOULD HAVE CELEBRATED AND
GOOGLE WOULD HAVE CARRIED ON
HAVING AN INCREDIBLY CLOSE
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GOVERNMENT
WHICH IT HAD UNDER OBAMA.
WELL, THAT ALL STOPPED WITH A
SUDDEN HORRIBLE SHOCK IN THE
EARLY HOURS OF NOVEMBER THE
9th, 2015.

Steve says INDEED.
AS YOU COMPARE THE POWER AT THAT
THOSE IN SILICON VALLEY HAVE AND
THAT I NETWORK TO THE NETWORK
THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS VASTLY OUT
OVER MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE
WORLD WHOSE POWER IS MORE AND IF
WHOSE HANDS IS THE POWER MORE
APPROPRIATELY USED FOR THE GOOD
OF THE PUBLIC?

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Niall says THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK THE RIGHT ANSWERS WE
WILL PROBABLY SOON FIND OUT
BECAUSE I THINK A COLLISION IS
GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND SILICON
VALLEY.
IT WAS ALREADY BEGINNING TO
BECOME APPARENT AROUND THE TIME
OF THE TERRIBLE EVENTS IN
CHARLOTTESVILLE LAST YEAR WHICH
PROMPTED A GREAT DEAL OF VERY
EXPLICIT ANTI-TRUMP STATEMENTS
FROM SILICON VALLEY EXECUTIVES.
BUT THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF
THINKING ABOUT THIS.
NUMBER ONE, HOW IS IT HE CAME TO
POWER.
TRUMP IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES WHICH MAKES HIM
INSTITUTIONALLY THE MOST
POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD.
NO QUESTION.
ELSE AT THE TOP OF THE HIERARCHY
THAT IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES.
HE HAS ALL THE TOOLS AT HIS
DISPOSAL OF ANYBODY WHO IS THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
AND MEANWHILE, SILICON VALLEY'S
A BILLIONAIRES MAY BE WEALTHY
AND THEY MAY CONTROL VERY
VALUABLE COMPANIES BUT IF THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DECIDED TO
REGULAR HATE THEM EITHER THROUGH
ANTI-TRUST OR BY SOME OTHER
MEANS IT WOULD REALLY NOT BE
EASY FOR THEM TO WIN THAT FIGHT.
NOW I THINK ANTI-TRUST IS LESS
LIKELY TO HAPPEN CERTAINLY IT'S
NOT THE KIND OF THING
REPUBLICANS DO AND SO I WOULDN'T
EXPECT THAT TO BE WHERE THIS
BATTLE IS FOUGHT BUT IMAGINE IF
IN THE COURSE OF THE COME YEAR
REPUBLICANS WAKEN UP TO THE FACT
THAT THE ALGORITHMS HAVE BEEN
TWEAKED TO THEIR DISADVANTAGE SO
THE 2016 WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN
IN FACT SOCIAL MEDIA WILL HELP
THE DEMOCRATS IF 2018 AND THEY
THEN SAY OKAY WE NEED TO LOOK AT
REGULATION AGAIN YOU GUYS ARE
MONOPOLIES BASICALLY FACILITIES
WE WILL REGULATE YOU IN A WAY
SIMILAR TO THE WAY WE REGULATE
REGULAR MEDIA COMPANIES THEN
THERE WILL BE A TREMENDOUS FIGHT
AND IN THAT FIGHT I THINK THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL WIN
ESPECIALLY IF THE PUBLIC
INCREASINGLY UNDERSTANDS THAT
FACEBOOK HAS TOO MUCH POWER, TOO
MUCH POWER FOR ANY COMPANY.
AND SO I THINK IN THAT BATTLE IT
WILL BE RIGHT FOR THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION TO REGULATE
FACEBOOK AND GOOGLE DIFFERENTLY.
CURRENTLY THEY ARE NOT REGULATED
IN THE WAY THAT MEDIA COMPANIES
ARE.
WE LIVE IN A FICTITIOUS WORLD
WHERE THESE ARE TECHNOLOGY
PLATFORMS WITHOUT ANY LIABILITY
FOR THE CONTENT THAT APPEARS ON
THEM AND I THINK THAT'S NOT A
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AT ALL.
REGULAR MEDIA PUBLISHERS ARE
LIABLE FOR THE CONTENT THEY
PUBLISH THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE
EDITORS. THAT'S WHY YOU
HAVE AN EDITOR LISTENING
TO WHAT WE SAY TO MAKE SURE WE
DON'T SAY SOMETHING THAT'S
HEINOUSLY UNTRUE. I THINK
THAT'S THE REGULATION IN CHANGE
AND IT'S NOT THAT WE ARE
REGULATING IN A WAY THAT I THINK
WOULD BE [indiscernible] I
THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO
HAVE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD SO
THAT THE BIGGEST MEDIA PUBLISHER
IN THE WORLD WHICH IS NOW
FACEBOOK ACTUALLY IS ACCOUNTABLE
FOR THE STUFF THAT APPEARS ON
THE PLATFORM.
THE MID-1990s LEGISLATION
WHICH PREDATES FACEBOOK
ESSENTIALLY CREATED AN
EXEMPTION FOR TECH COMPANIES TO
HELP THEM GET GOING SO AT THAT
THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT WHAT APPEARED ON THE
PLATFORM.
THAT IS COMPLETELY ANACHRONISTIC
IN 2018 WHEN THESE
ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST
COMPANIES IN THE WORLD THEY
ENJOY AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER
TRADITIONAL MEDIA COVERAGE.
THAT FAZED TO BE FIXED.
I SEE TO CREDIBLE ARGUMENT
AGAINST THAT.
FACEBOOK AND OTHERS SAY LEAVE IT
TO US OF THE WE WILL IMPROVE.
WE WILL FIX FACEBOOK THAT WAS
ZUCKERBERG'S PHRASE AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE YEAR.
WE WILL TWEAK THE ALGORITHM.
THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
WHY WOULD THEY CHANGE THE
BUSINESS MODEL.
IT'S A TREMENDOUS BUSINESS
MODEL.
YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY TAKING
ADVANTAGE OF ALL THE DATA YOU
HAVE TO SELL TO ADVERTISERS
AROUND THE WORLD AND YOU DON'T
LOOK TOO CLOSELY AT WHO THE
ADVERTISERS ARE EVEN IF THEY ARE
PAYING IN RUBLES FOR POLITICAL
CONTENT OF THE THAT HE WAS THE
STORY OF 2016. IF THAT ISN'T AN
ARGUMENT FOR A TOUGHER
REGULATORY FRAMEWORK THEN WHAT IS.

The caption changes to "Combating Internet anarchy."

Steve says ANY PART OF YOU
UNCOMFORTABLE AS YOU MIGHT BE ON
THE SAME PAGE AS DONALD TRUMP ON THAT FILE?

Niall says PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN
BECAUSE OF THE PRESIDENT'S
PERSONALITY AND HIS VIEWS ON A
WHOLE RANGE OF ISSUES WHICH I
FIND DEPLORABLE WHETHER IT IS
SEXISM AND RACISM YOU CAN'T
ACTUALLY SAY ON A PARTICULAR
POLICY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS
RIGHT WITHOUT BEING DENOUNCED
AS AN APOLOGIST FOR TRUMP'S
SEXISM AND RACISM. BUT YOU HAVE
TO DRAW A DISTINCTION BETWEEN
THE TRUMP PERSONALITY AND THE
CRAZY STUFF HE SAYS.
I WON'T REPEAT SOME OF HIS
RECENT LANGUAGE ON AIR.
AND THE POLICIES OF THE
ADMINISTRATION.
THERE IS A DISTINCTION, UNITED
STATES ISN'T A MONARCHY. THE
SEPARATION OF POWER IS
REAL. IT'S DESIGNED TO
INSTITUTIONALIZE POWER SO THAT
THE PRESIDENT CAN'T TURN THE
UNITED STATES INTO A TYRANNY
AND I THINK IF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION WERE TO SAY WE
NEED TO CHANGE THE REGULATIONS
SO THAT THERE'S A LEVEL PLAYING
FIELD FOR ALL MEDIA CONTENT
PUBLISHERS THEN I WOULD BE IN
FAVOUR OF THAT REGARDLESS OF
WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP TWEETS TOMORROW.

The caption changes to "Producer: Colin Ellis, @ColinEllis81."

Steve says WE ALWAYS APPRECIATE
YOUR VISITS HERE AT TVO NIALL
FERGUSON AND WE CAN'T WAIT
TO HAVE YOU BACK WITH VOLUME 2
OF HENRY KISSINGER. IN THE
MEANTIME, WE WOULD RECOMMEND
NIALL FERGUSON'S LATEST, "THE
SQUARE AND THE TOWER: NETWORKS
AND POWER FROM THE FREE MASONS
TO FACEBOOK."
GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

Niall says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Watch: The Age of Networks