Transcript: The Agenda's Week in Review | Feb 09, 2018

Steve stands in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and spotted blue tie.
A wall screen behind him reads "The week in review."

Steve says THE AGENDA THIS WEEK
FOUND OUT ABOUT A NEW PROGRAM TO
ASSIST BLACK STUDENTS FACING
CONFLICTS WITH THEIR PUBLIC
SCHOOLS; CONSIDERED THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT'S LEGISLATION TO
LEGALIZE MARIJUANA; AND GOT A
HISTORY LESSON FROM NIALL
FERGUSON ABOUT THE EVOLVING
POWER OF NETWORKS.
THE AGENDA'S WEEK IN REVIEW
BEGINS LOOKING AT THE
AVAILABILITY OF QUALITY HEALTH
CARE IN NORTHERN ONTARIO.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with guests.
A caption reads "Practising medicine in Ontario's North."

Steve says WE THOUGHT WE'D PLAY
A LITTLE CLIP HERE FROM OUR
ONTARIO HUBS FIELD PRODUCER
JEYAN JEGANATHAN WHO RECENTLY
SPENT SOME TIME IN WHITE RIVER,
ONTARIO, LOOKING INTO A PIECE
ABOUT RECRUITING AND RETAINING
PHYSICIANS THERE, SO, SHELDON,
LET'S RUN A SNIPPET OF THAT AND
THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND CHAT.

A clip plays on screen in which a white-haired woman in her fifties stands in a hospital room speaking.

She says WE DON'T HAVE A HOSPITAL
HERE.
AND WE ONLY HAVE FUNDING FOR ONE
PHYSICIAN.
SO WE LOOK TO THE YOUNGER ONES.
AND ANYONE COMING OUT OF SCHOOL,
THEY WANT TO HAVE PEER SUPPORT
FOR SURE.
PLUS THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE
ALL OF THEIR SKILLS WHICH MEANS
WORKING IN A HOSPITAL.

Fast clips show a young female physician examining a patient, then the outside of a hospital at night.

A caption reads "Arlene McCorry. Nurse Practitioner."

The woman continues SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE PUTTING ADS
IN THE NEWSPAPERS AND IN THE
MEDICAL JOURNALS.
BUT AS FAR AS GOING TO THESE
RECRUITMENT FAIRS, WE JUST DON'T
HAVE THE FUNDING TO DO THAT.
AND WE DON'T HAVE THE MAN POWER.

A male voice says IT KIND OF FRUSTRATES ME.
WE'RE CONSTANTLY NEGLECTED BY THE PROVINCE.

A man stands in a pharmacy.
A caption reads "Angelo Bazzonni. White River Mayor."

Angelo is in his late fifties, clean-shaven and balding.

He says WE'RE COVERED UNDER AN UNDER
SERVICED AREA PROGRAM WHERE WE
DO GET SOME FUNDING FOR THE
CLINIC.
BUT THE LOCAL TAXPAYERS PAY SOME
OF THE OPERATING COSTS HERE FOR
THE CLINIC.
SO WE'RE PENALIZED FOR LIVING IN
THE NORTH.

The clip ends.

Steve says LET'S START WITH
YOU.
HOW DOES THAT SHORT SNIPPET
CHARACTERIZE THE WAY THINGS ARE
IN NORTHERN ONTARIO?

The caption changes to "Chuck Schmitt. Dryden Regional Health Centre."

Chuck is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing a white shirt and glasses.

He says I THINK IT'S A FAIR
REPRESENTATION OF A LOT OF
THINGS WE'RE SEEING THROUGHOUT
THE NORTH.
SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE
SCHOOL OF MEDICINE UP HERE
(INAUDIBLE) PROVIDE US SOME HOPE
FOR THE LONGER TERM.

Steve says LET'S PUT SOME
NUMBERS ON THIS, IF WE CAN.
SHELDON, LET'S BRING THIS UP.
THIS IS FROM A REPORT TO
NORTHERN ONTARIO FROM 2017.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "No ordinary school of medicine."

Steve reads data from the slate and says 94 percent OF GRADUATES WHO HAVE
COMPLETED BOTH THEIR MD AND
RESIDENCY PROGRAMS AT THE SCHOOL
ARE NOW PRACTISING IN NORTHERN
ONTARIO, 94 percent.
SINCE 2011, MORE THAN 160 FAMILY
DOCS NOW PRACTICE IN NORTHERN
ONTARIO.
IN 2016, NOSM CONTRIBUTED MORE
THAN 100 MILLION dollars OF NEW
ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN THE NORTH.
APPROXIMATELY 92 percent OF NOSMM.D.
STUDENTS ARE FROM NORTHERN
ONTARIO AND MORE THAN 90
COMMUNITIES PARTICIPATE IN THE
EDUCATION OF NOSM LEARNERS.
LET'S GO TO OUR NOSM
REPRESENTATIVE HERE.
WHAT JUMPS OUT AT YOU FROM THOSE
NUMBERS THERE THAT YOU THINK IS
MOST INSTRUCTIVE TO KNOW?

The caption changes to "Catherine Cervin. Northern Ontario School of Medicine."
Then, it changes again to "Northern Checkup."

Catherine is in her fifties, with short blond hair. She's wearing glasses and a brown jacket over a black turtleneck.

She says WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO PUT THE NUMBERS IN CONTEXT.
AND THE 94 percent IS ACCURATE FOR
THOSE WHO HAVE COMPLETED BOTH
UNDERGRADUATE AND POSTGRADUATE
AT NOSM.
THOSE ARE A LESSER PERCENTAGE OF
ALL THE GRADUATES.
SO YOU CAN LOOK AT PEOPLE WHO
HAVE COMPLETED UNDERGRAD AT NOSM
OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMPLETED
RESIDENCY PROGRAM, POSTGRADUATE
EDUCATION AT NOSM, AND DEPENDING
ON WHICH GROUP YOU LOOK AT WITH
WHICH LENS, YOU'LL GET DIFFERENT
NUMBERS.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT NOSM HAS
BEEN GOOD FOR NORTHERN ONTARIO,
AND THERE IS STILL A LOT OF WORK
BECAUSE OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES,
PARTICULARLY THE REMOTE ONES AND
THE INDIGENOUS ONES, ARE STILL
VERY UNDER-SERVED.
THERE'S STILL A LOT OF WORK WE
NEED TO DO.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says UNDERSTOOD.
SARAH NEWBERY, LET ME FOLLOW UP
WITH YOU.
IF THE WHOLE IDEA IN SETTING UP
THE NORTHERN ONTARIO SCHOOL OF
MEDICINE IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS
THE THEORY THAT IF YOU TRAIN
DOCS IN THE NORTH, THEY'LL STAY
IN THE NORTH.
APPARENTLY 94 percent ARE STAYING IN
THE NORTH.
I MEAN, THAT SEEMS TO SUM UP A
PRETTY GOOD NEWS STORY, ISN'T IT?

The caption changes to "Sarah Newbery. Marathon Family Practice."

Sarah is in her late forties, with short blond hair. She's wearing a blue sweater and red and blue scarf.

She says I THINK THERE IS SOME GOOD
NEWS IN THAT, AND I THINK TO THE
DOCTOR'S POINT, THAT STATISTIC
OF 94 percent THAT IS DRAWN FROM A
PARTICULAR STUDY REALLY LOOKS AT
THOSE GRADUATES WHO ENTERED
FAMILY MEDICINE, WHICH IS
ROUGHLY HALF OF THE COHORT TO
BEGIN WITH.
AND THOSE THAT DID BOTH THEIR
UNDERGRAD AND THEIR POST GRAD
TRAINING AT NOSM, WHICH
REPRESENTS REALLY A QUARTER OF
THE UNDERGRADUATE COHORT, MANY
OF THOSE ARE INDEED STAYING IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO, BUT THEY'RE
STAYING LARGELY IN THE URBAN
CENTRES IN NORTHERN ONTARIO, AND
THAT IS IMPORTANT AND THERE'S
HUGE VALUE IN THAT.
BUT TO THE CLIP THAT YOU PLAYED
FROM WHITE RIVER, RURAL
COMMUNITIES ARE NOT EXPERIENCING
AN INFLUX OF NEW GRADUATES TO
OUR PRACTICES IN THE WAY THAT I
THINK WAS INITIALLY ANTICIPATED.
IN REAL NUMBERS, WHAT THE DATA
FROM NOSM SUGGESTS IS THAT
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THREE AND FIVE
PHYSICIANS ARE ENTERING RURAL
PRACTICE OUT OF NOSM'S PROGRAM
EACH YEAR ACROSS ALL OF NORTHERN
ONTARIO.
AND WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE
REAL CURRENT NEED, WHICH IN IF
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO ALONE IS
FOR 56 FULL-TIME FAMILY
PHYSICIANS IN OUR RURAL
COMMUNITIES ONLY, THAT THREE TO
FIVE GRADUATES PER YEAR DOES NOT
COME CLOSE IN ANY WAY TO MEETING
EXISTING NEED.

Steve says LET'S GO TO CLAY
HAMMETT WHO PRACTICES IN
NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO.
WHAT CAN YOU ADD TO WHAT SARAH
JUST SAID?

The caption changes to "Clay Hammett. Family Physician."

Clay is in his late forties, with short gray hair and a stubble. He's wearing a red sweater over a checkered shirt.

He says STEVE, I'D LIKE TO REDIRECT
THE CONVERSATION A LITTLE BIT
AWAY FROM NOSM AND THE EXCELLENT
JOB THAT NOSM IS DOING.
IT'S A YOUNG MEDICAL SCHOOL.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON THE
GROUND IN NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO,
AND IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE
COULD HAVE A MAP OF NORTHERN
ONTARIO TO JUST, YOU KNOW,
CELEBRATE AND LOOK AT THE VAST
GEOGRAPHY THAT THERE IS THERE.
IN NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO, WHERE I
AM, WE'RE SEEING FEWER RESIDENTS
OVER THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS,
AND I DON'T THINK THIS IS NOSM'S
DOING.
NOSM IS DOING EVERYTHING IT CAN
TO HELP SUPPORT THE EDUCATION OF
MEDICAL STUDENTS AND PERHAPS WE
NEED TO SORT OF HIGHLIGHT FOR
THE GENERAL POPULATION AND
PUBLIC THAT MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE
UNDERGRADUATES THAT WE ALL
EDUCATE IN OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES
PRIMARILY AND BRING THEM TO A
LEVEL OF EDUCATION WHERE THEN
THE NEXT STEP IS TO GO ON TO
BECOME A RESIDENT PHYSICIAN.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Clay continues AND THOSE ARE THE DOCTORS THAT
WE NEED TO SEE IN OUR
COMMUNITIES BECAUSE ONCE THEY
COME AND DO THEIR POSTGRADUATE
MEDICAL EDUCATION AS A RESIDENT
PHYSICIAN IN OUR COMMUNITIES, WE
HAVE A MUCH GREATER PROBABILITY
OF ATTRACTING THEM AND RETAINING
THEM IN THE WORK ENVIRONMENTS
WHERE THEY COME AND TRAIN.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN NEARLY ENOUGH OR
LONG ENOUGH TIME IN OUR
COMMUNITIES, AND I THINK THAT
FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE
FINGER NEEDS TO GO TOWARDS OUR
GOVERNMENT AND HOW IT FUNDS THE
MEDICAL SCHOOL TO GET US MORE
RESIDENTS INTO OUR RURAL AREAS.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with different guests.
A caption reads "Speaking up for black students. Disproportionately expelled."

Steve says LEGAL AID ONTARIO
HAS BEEN GIVEN 100,000 dollars TO DEAL
WITH THE OVERREPRESENTATION OF
BLACK KIDS TO THOSE EXPELLED.

The caption changes to "Liben Gebremikael. Taibu Community Health Centre."

Liben is in his late forties, bald, with a soulpatch. He's wearing rounded glasses, a gray suit and shirt, and a patterned orange tie.

He says THE FUNDING CAME FROM A
PROPOSAL PROCESS WE WENT
THROUGH.
IT'S TWO ORGANIZATIONS COMING
TOGETHER.
REXDALE COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTRE
IN THE WEST.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO COVER TWO
GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS WITHIN THE
GTA.
THERE ARE KIND OF THREE
COMPONENTS TO THE PROGRAM.
THE FIRST ONE WOULD BE THE
OUTREACH AND GOING TO SCHOOLS
AND TALKING TO STUDENTS AND
PARENTS AND AS KNIA WAS SAYING
EARLIER ON, TO TRY TO KIND OF
PREVENT CERTAIN THINGS,
ENCOURAGING AND EMPOWERING
PARENTS SO THEY KNOW WHAT THE
SCHOOL LOOKS LIKE, WHAT ARE
THEIR RIGHTS AND
RESPONSIBILITIES WHEN THINGS
LIKE THIS HAPPEN.
THERE'S ALSO A COMPONENT WHERE
WE'RE DOING COMMUNITY EDUCATION
AROUND CONFLICT EDUCATION FOR
BOTH PARENTS AND STUDENTS.
AND THE MOST CRITICAL PART IS
THE ACCESS TO LEGAL SERVICES AT
THE RIGHT TIME.
WE FIND THAT A LOT OF THE
PARENTS THAT GO THROUGH THE
SYSTEM DO NOT HAVE DIRECT ACCESS
TO LEGAL SERVICES, WHETHER IT'S
ADVICE, WHETHER IT'S NEGOTIATION
AND MEDIATION, OR THE SCHOOL'S
REPRESENTATION AT HEARINGS AND
SCHOOL BOARDS.
SO THREE COMPONENTS.
WE HAVE A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP
WITH MAAT LEGAL SERVICES, PLUS
THE KIND OF WRAP-AROUND AROUND
MAKING SURE THAT THE NEGOTIATION
IS HAPPENING.

The caption changes to "The plug program."

Liben continues WE'RE TRYING TO BRING THE SCHOOL
BOARD INTO OUR... PROACTIVELY TO
ENGAGE WITH US AND WE HAVE
CREATED AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE,
REPRESENTATIVE OF CLIENTS,
PARENTS, STUDENTS, TDSB, SCHOOL
BOARD REPRESENTATIVES, WE'RE
TRYING TO GET TO THE CATHOLIC
SCHOOL BOARD SO WE HAVE SOME
REPRESENTATIVES SO WE CAN
IDENTIFY SOME OF THE TRENDS AND
TALK ABOUT IT AT A HIGHER LEVEL
WHERE THERE COULD BE SOME POLICY
CHANGES OR SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.
YOU'VE TOLD US WHY YOU THINK THE
SCHOOL SYSTEM STILL HAS TOO MUCH
SYSTEMIC RACISM IN IT.
IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHAT KIND OF
THINGS ARE BLACK KIDS EXPELLED FOR?

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Another male guest says TALKING BACK TO TEACHERS.

Steve says YOU GET EXPELLED FOR THAT?

The caption changes to "Knia Singh. Ma'At Legal Services."

Knia is in his early forties, with short-cropped black hair and a trimmed goatee. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and purple tie.

He says YEAH.
FOUL LANGUAGE.
IT STARTS ALL THE WAY FROM JUST
AN ATTITUDE, ALL THE WAY UP TO
MAYBE A FIGHT.

Steve says FIGHTING I GET.

Knia says FIGHTING YOU GET.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME IF YOU'RE
DEFENDING YOURSELF, WHY SHOULD
THE STUDENT BE EXPELLED?
I'M NOT JUSTIFYING FIGHTING OR
ANYTHING, BUT THERE ARE
MEASURES.
IT'S PROGRESSIVE DISCIPLINE THAT
SHOULD BE ENGAGED.
WE FIND WITH A LOT OF OUR CASES
STUDENTS THAT HAVE NO PRIOR
INTERACTION WITH DISCIPLINE ARE
IMMEDIATELY BEING EXPELLED DUE
TO AN INCIDENT, IN PARTICULAR A
YOUNG LADY, 15 YEARS OLD, WAS
BULLIED FOR 8 MONTHS AND SHE
FINALLY FOUGHT BACK.
AFTER SHE FOUGHT BACK, THE
SCHOOL SOUGHT HER EXPULSION.
WE INTERVENED.
WE WERE ABLE TO GET HER BACK IN
SCHOOL AS OF YESTERDAY.
IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE LEGAL
REPRESENTATION, SHE WOULD NOT
HAVE GOT BACK INTO THE SCHOOL.

Steve says WHY WOULD THE SCHOOL
NOT INVESTIGATED AND MADE A
BETTER DECISION IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Knia says THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I CAN TELL YOU IT HAS TO DO WITH
SOME TYPE OF PUBLICITY AROUND
THAT MATTER.
IT BECAME A HIGH-PROFILE ISSUE
AND I THINK THE SCHOOL WAS
TRYING TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.
WE DID DO THE HEARING AND BRING
THE RELEVANT FACTORS UP, HOW
MANY TIMES THE STUDENT AND THE
MOTHER APPROACHED THE SCHOOL,
MET WITH THE PRINCIPAL,
VICE-PRINCIPAL AND PRINCIPAL,
AND GUIDANCE COUNSELLORS.
WE THOUGHT AT NO POINT DID THEY
DO IT CORRECTLY.
THAT WAS PART OF OUR
SUBMISSIONS.
AT THE END OF THE DAY WE GOT THE
RESULT WE WANTED BUT THERE IS
SOME TYPE OF PROTECTIONISM
AROUND THE ADMINISTRATION
BECAUSE YOU HAVE HEARINGS WITH
TRUSTEES.
TRUSTEES ARE CLOSE TO THE
SUPERINTENDENTS AND PRINCIPALS.
SO THEIR IMPARTIALITY IS NOT
THERE AS MUCH.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FINDING.
WE'RE FINDING A LOT OF STUDENTS
ARE GETTING EXPELLED BECAUSE
IT'S TOO MUCH FOR THE TEACHERS
TO DEAL WITH.
SOMETIMES WHEN A STUDENT COMES
IN LATE ALL THE TIME OR IS
DISRUPTIVE IN CLASS, INSTEAD OF
TAKING THEM ASIDE OR PUTTING
THEM IN A SPECIAL CLASS THAT
ADDRESSES THOSE BEHAVIOURS, IT'S
EASIER TO SAY, YOU'RE SUSPENDED
FOR THREE DAYS.
GO HOME.
EVEN IN THOSE CASES SCHOOLS ARE
NOT PROVIDING THE PARENTS ARE
NOTICE OF SUSPENSION, WHICH IS
THE FIRST VIOLATION OF THE
EDUCATION ACT.
THEY'RE ARBITRARILY SAYING GO
HOME, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO
DEAL WITH IT.
THEY REALLY NEED TO STEP UP AND
ADDRESS WHAT THE STUDENTS NEED
IN ORDER TO PREVENT THESE
EXPULSIONS FROM GETTING OUT OF HAND.

Steve says PRESUMABLY THERE IS
A SERIES OF PROTOCOLS THAT
ADMINISTRATORS HAVE TO FOLLOW
BEFORE A SUSPENSION HAPPENS.
ISN'T THAT THE CASE?

Liben says IT IS THE CASE BUT IT'S NOT
FOLLOWED ALL THE TIME.
I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT IS
VERY CRITICAL IS THAT EVEN AFTER
A DISCIPLINE HAS TAKEN PLACE AND
THERE MAY BE SOME VALID REASONS
FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S TOO
PUNITIVE AND IT DOESN'T REALLY
PROVIDE ANY SUPPORT FOR THE
PARENT, WHETHER IT'S INFORMATION
OR EVEN HOW DO WE REINTEGRATE
THIS STUDENT BACK INTO SCHOOL AT
A LATER DATE?
I THINK THAT'S A BIG CHALLENGE.
BECAUSE ONCE A STUDENT GOES
THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING
EXPELLED OR SUSPENDED, THEIR
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SCHOOL
SYSTEM IS IMPACTED, AND IN MOST
CASES WE FIND THEN THEY ARE VERY
LIKELY TO BE DROPPING OUT OF
SCHOOL AT A LATER DATE OR NOT
ENGAGING OR NOT ACHIEVING
ACADEMICALLY.
I THINK THE OTHER PART OF WHAT
IS NOT BEING ADDRESSED BY THE
SCHOOL SYSTEM IS ONCE THERE IS
AN EXPULSION OR SUSPENSION,
THAT'S IT.
THERE'S NO SUPPORT TO THE
PARENTS OR TO THE STUDENT TO SEE
IF THERE IS ANY WAY OF COMING
BACK INTO THE SYSTEM TO HELP
THEM REINTEGRATE.
THERE MAY BE ATTITUDE ISSUES,
THERE MAY BE BEHAVIOUR ISSUES,
BUT IT CANNOT BE LIKE... I WAS
HEARING A REPRESENTATION
YESTERDAY, FOR SOME OF THE
STUDENTS, THEY FEEL THAT THAT
KIND OF ACTION IS LIKE GOING
THROUGH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM OR ONE OF THE STUDENTS
SAID I FEEL LIKE I WAS IN JAIL
BECAUSE OF GOING THROUGH THIS.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP ON
THAT.
LET'S TAKE THE CASE YOU JUST
REFERENCED.
KIND OF LIKE A TRIAL, ISN'T IT?
WHO'S THE JUDGE AT THE TRIAL?

Knia says TRUSTEES.
THE TRUSTEES FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD.

Steve says THE ELECTED TRUSTEES?

Knia says YES.

Steve says ARE THEY THE RIGHT
PEOPLE TO BE HEARING THESE CASES?

Knia says I THINK THEY SHOULD BE PART
OF THE DECISION-MAKING.
LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE IF THE
TRUSTEES HAVE A CONFLICT OF
INTEREST BECAUSE THEY'RE CLOSE
WITH THE PRINCIPALS OF THE
SCHOOLS AND THE SUPERINTENDENTS,
THEIR IMPARTIALITY MAY NOT BE
THERE.

Steve says WHO SHOULD BE
HEARING THE CASES?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Knia says JPs OR JUDGES.
I POINTED OUT THAT PROCEDURE
WASN'T FOLLOWED.
THE NOTICE OF SUSPENSION WASN'T
ISSUED AND THE SUSPENSION THAT
THE STUDENT WAS ATTEMPTED TO BE
SUSPENDED UNDER WAS INVALID.
IT WAS A SUSPENSION FOR ASSAULT,
BUT NO ASSAULT HAD TAKEN PLACE.
THE POLICE INVESTIGATED AND
FOUND NO ASSAULT HAD TAKEN
PLACE.
THE TRUSTEES DID NOT OVERTURN OR
PREVENT IT FROM GOING FORWARD
AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH LEGAL
ISSUES.
THEY'RE MORE DOING IT
HOLISTICALLY, WHICH IS FINE.
BUT REFINED LEGAL EXPERTS
PROBABLY SHOULD BE ON THESE
PANELS.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve appears on split screens with a male guest.
A caption reads "Cannabis legalization. Lifting prohibition on criminals."

Steve says WHAT IF YOU ARE IN
JAIL FOR SIMPLE POSSESSION?
IN THAT CASE, DO YOU GET A PARDON?

The caption changes to "Bill Blair. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice."

Bill is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped black tie.

He says THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN
VERY CLEAR, UNTIL THE LAW IS
REPEALED AND REPLACED WITH A NEW
REGIME, IT REMAINS IN EFFECT AND
WE URGE ALL CANADIANS TO
CONTINUE TO OBEY THE LAW.
BUT THE PRIME MINISTER HAS ALSO
INDICATED, WHEN THE NEW REGIME
IS IN PLACE, THAT THE MINISTER
OF PUBLIC SAFETY, MINISTER
GOODALL, IS PREPARED TO EXAMINE
THE PROCESS BY WHICH RECORDS ARE
SUSPENDED AND PARDONS ARE GIVEN
FOR SIMPLE POSSESSION, AND
THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT WE ARE
COMMITTED TO EXAMINING AND
REVIEWING, BUT AT THE
APPROPRIATE TIME.
AND THAT CANNOT TAKE PLACE UNTIL
THE NEW LEGISLATION IS IN PLACE
AND THE EXISTING LAW IS
REPEALED.
IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS, I WOULD
POINT OUT, CALIFORNIA RECENTLY
MADE ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT THEIR
INTENTION, WITH RESPECT TO
CERTAIN RECORD SUSPENSIONS.
BUT THEY MADE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT
AFTER THEY CHANGED THEIR
LEGISLATION, AND THAT'S THE
APPROPRIATE TIME FOR US TO HAVE
THAT DISCUSSION, AND UNTIL THAT
TAKES PLACE AND UNTIL THE NEW
SYSTEM OF CANNABIS CONTROL UNDER
BILL C-45 IS ENACTED THROUGH
PARLIAMENT AND TAKES EFFECT, WE
WOULD URGE ALL CANADIANS TO
CONTINUE TO OBEY THE LAWS THAT
CURRENTLY EXIST IN THIS COUNTRY
UNTIL THEY ARE REPLACED WITH
WHAT WE BELIEVE WILL BE FAR MORE
EFFECTIVE LAWS AND ENSURING THAT
THIS IS KEPT OUT OF THE HANDS OF
KIDS AND NOT LEFT UP TO
CRIMINALS TO PRODUCE AND DISTRIBUTE.

Steve says LET'S BRING THE
ANGLE OF RACE INTO THIS, IF WE
CAN, FOR A SECOND?
I'LL READ AN EXCERPT HERE FROM
THE TORONTO STAR , WHICH SAYS...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Cannabis, criminality and the marginalized." The quote reads "Black people with no history of criminal convictions have been three times more likely to be arrested by Toronto police for possession of small amounts of marijuana than white people with similar backgrounds, according to a Toronto Star analysis."
Quoted from Toronto Star, July 6 2017.

Steve says ARE YOU CONCERNED
THAT WITH THE INCREASED SEVERITY
OF THE PENALTIES FOR
DISTRIBUTION OF CANNABIS OUTSIDE
THE LEGAL CHANNELS THAT
MARGINALIZED GROUPS MAY CONTINUE
TO PAY A HIGHER PRICE THAN OTHERS?

The caption changes to "Bill Blair, @BillBlair."

Bill says WELL, ACTUALLY, ONE OF THE
REASONS WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD
THIS LEGISLATION, I SAID IT ON
THE VERY FIRST DAY WE BEGAN TO
DEBATE THIS IN THE HOUSE, THAT
ONE OF OUR CONCERNS AS A
GOVERNMENT IS THE DISPARATE
IMPACT THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM
OF CANNABIS CONTROL HAS ON
MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES, POOR
COMMUNITIES, RACIALIZED
COMMUNITIES, AND INDIGENOUS
COMMUNITIES.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Bill continues IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT
MOTIVATES US IS TO TAKE AWAY THE
POSSIBILITY OF CRIMINALIZING THE
BEHAVIOUR OF YOUNG PEOPLE FROM
ALL COMMUNITIES, BUT
PARTICULARLY FROM THE ONES THAT
I'VE MENTIONED.
AND SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS
WE THINK WE CAN CREATE A FAR
MORE EFFECTIVE REGIME OF
CANNABIS CONTROL AND A FAR MORE
JUST SYSTEM BY DOING THAT.
BUT I ALSO WANT TO BE CLEAR, WE
ARE REPLACING THE CRIMINAL
ENTERPRISE OF ILLEGAL PRODUCTION
AND DISTRIBUTION OF CANNABIS
WITH A WELL-REGULATED SYSTEM
THAT IS SUBJECT TO OVERSIGHT,
RULES, REGULATIONS, TESTING,
ACCOUNTABILITY.
AND THAT IS TO ENSURE THE HEALTH
AND SAFETY OF ALL OF OUR
CITIZENS.
SO WE'RE CONTINUING TO
DISCOURAGE AND ENFORCE THE LAW
TO PREVENT ILLEGAL TRAFFICKING
BECAUSE WE THINK THAT'S WHAT'S
PUTTING OUR KIDS AT RISK BUT
ENRICHES ORGANIZED CRIME AND WE
ARE CURRENTLY, UNDER THE CURRENT
SYSTEM, ORGANIZED CRIME IS
MOTIVATED ONLY BY PROFIT AND NOT
BY THE WELL-BEING OF OUR KIDS OR
THE HEALTH OF OUR CITIZENS.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with a female guest.
A caption reads "Investigating pot laws. Decriminalizing the criminals."

Steve says SO SHOULD THERE BE
RECORD SUSPENSIONS FOR ALL THE
PEOPLE CURRENTLY IN FOR POT POSSESSION?

The caption changes to "Annamaria Enenajor. Ruby Shiller and Enenajor."

Annamaria is in her thirties, with long curly brown hair in a top knot and wears a knitted beige top and a black blazer.

She says I BELIEVE THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO
HAVE CONVICTIONS ON THEIR RECORD
THAT ARE SIMPLE POT POSSESSION
CONVICTIONS AND ONLY SIMPLE POT
POSSESSION CONVICTIONS, THAT
THEY SHOULD RECEIVE AMNESTY BY
WAY OF A RECORD SUSPENSION OR
ACTUALLY A COMPLETE RECORD
DELETION FOR THOSE OFFENCES.
IN MY VIEW, THIS IS A QUESTION
OF QUALITY BECAUSE IF WE LOOK AT
THE DISPROPORTIONATE WAY IN
WHICH MARIJUANA-BASED OFFENCES
HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED IN CANADA,
WE KNOW STATISTICALLY THAT WHITE
CANADIANS AND CANADIANS OF
COLOUR CONSUME THE SUBSTANCE AT
EQUAL RATES, BUT THEY ARE NOT
CHARGED AND CONVICTED AT EQUAL
RATES.
SO THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IMPACTS
COMMUNITIES... MINORITY
COMMUNITIES, COMMUNITIES OF
COLOUR, AND IN ORDER TO
RECOGNIZE THE DEVASTATING IMPACT
THAT THESE KINDS OF MEASURES
HAVE HAD ON THOSE COMMUNITIES, I
THINK IT'S INCUMBENT ON THE
GOVERNMENT TO ADOPT THAT KIND OF
APPROACH GOING FORWARD.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says CAN YOU TELL US
ABOUT... I'VE HEARD OF THIS
SITUATION IN OAKLAND,
CALIFORNIA, WHERE THEY HAVE KIND
OF A DIFFERENT PROGRAM.
REPARATIONS TO THOSE WHO HAVE
BEEN CRIMINALIZED BY CANNABIS.
HOW DOES THAT WORK?

Annamaria says EXACTLY.
SO IN JURISDICTIONS LIKE
OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA, AND I THINK
THERE ARE SOME KIND OF
REPARATION OR PREFERENTIAL KIND
OF TREATMENT IN OTHER
JURISDICTIONS SUCH AS
LOS ANGELES AND SACRAMENTO AS
WELL, SO PRIMARILY IN
CALIFORNIA, BUT IT STEMS FROM
THE IDEA AND THE RECOGNITION
THAT IN THE HISTORICAL
PROSECUTION OF WEED OFFENCES,
MINORITY GROUPS HAVE BEEN
DISPROPORTIONATELY CRIMINALIZED.
AND IN ORDER TO REMEDY THAT,
OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA HAS CREATED
OR MANDATES THAT AT LEAST HALF
OF THE BUSINESS LICENCES THAT
ARE GOING TO WEED BUSINESSES, SO
LEGAL CANNABIS/POT BUSINESSES,
ARE GOING TO BE ALLOCATED FOR
WHAT THEY CALL MARGINALIZED OR
VULNERABLE GROUPS, SO SPECIAL
SPECIFIC IDENTIFIABLE GROUPS
SUCH AS PEOPLE WITH CANNABIS
RECORDS IN ORDER TO AMELIORATE
AND RECTIFY THE HARM THAT SUCH
CRIMINAL RECORDS HAVE CAUSED FOR
THEM.

Steve says WE'RE NOT GOING TO
DO THAT HERE?

Annamaria says THERE'S NO PROPOSITION ON THE
PART OF THE GOVERNMENT TO ADOPT
THAT KIND OF MEASURE, AND I
THINK THAT'S TROUBLING BECAUSE
IT IS A PERPETUATION OF THE IDEA
THAT IN THE APPROACH TO CANNABIS
LEGALIZATION, THE GOVERNMENT HAS
ACTUALLY TAKEN THE SAME APPROACH
TO CANNABIS DECRIMINALIZATION,
WHICH IS THAT THE IMPACTS ON
MINORITY COMMUNITIES REMAINS AN
AFTER-THOUGHT.

Steve says DID YOU GET A CHANCE
TO TALK TO ANYBODY IN THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ABOUT THIS?

Annamaria says I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY SPOKEN
TO ANYBODY IN THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT ABOUT THIS.

Steve says HAS THIS CASE BEEN
MADE TO THEM, THOUGH?

Annamaria says I THINK THAT THEY ARE AWARE
THAT THERE ARE RUMBLINGS ABOUT
THIS.
I KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN...
THE BILL IS CURRENTLY IN ITS
THIRD READING.
I KNOW THAT THROUGHOUT THE
HISTORY OF THE BILL TO DATE,
THERE HAVE BEEN PROPOSED
AMENDMENTS THAT RAISE THINGS
LIKE... EXCUSE ME... THAT RAISE
THINGS LIKE PROPOSING AN
AMNESTY, AND THAT HAS BEEN DONE
BY THE OPPOSITION PARTY, THE
NDP.
SO THERE IS REALLY AN
UNDERSTANDING OR A KNOWLEDGE OR
AN AWARENESS ON THE PART OF THE
GOVERNMENT THAT THIS IS IN THEIR
RADAR, THIS IS IN THEIR PURVIEW,
AND IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO IT.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says BUT THEY'VE CHOSEN
NOT TO DO SO.

Annamaria says THEY'VE CHOSEN NOT TO DO SO.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with different guests.
A caption reads "The age of networks. The Facebook era."

Steve says WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE
TO BE THE CONSEQUENCES OF ONE
SOCIAL NETWORK LIKE FACEBOOK
HAVING SUCH AN UTTERLY DOMINANT
POSITION IN OUR WORLD TODAY?

The caption changes to "Niall Ferguson. Author, 'The square and the tower.'"

Niall is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and spotted gray tie.

He says IF YOU ASK MARK ZUCKERBERG
THAT QUESTION, CERTAINLY A
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO HE WOULD
HAVE SAID IT'S AWESOME,
EVERYTHING IS AWESOME ABOUT
THIS, BECAUSE THE MORE PEOPLE
THAT ARE CONNECTED, THE MORE
LIKELY WE ARE TO SOLVE ALL THE
GREAT PROBLEMS THAT FACE OUR
PLANET.
HIS PROJECT WAS TO BUILD A
GLOBAL COMMUNITY.
THAT WAS ONE OF HIS FAVOURITE
PHRASES.
AND I THINK SILICON VALLEY
BELIEVED IF WE CONNECTED
EVERYBODY, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
THE SHOCK/HORROR REVELATION IS
THAT THERE ARE RISKS TO VERY
HIGH LEVELS OF CONNECTEDNESS.
THAT IF YOU BUILD A GIANT ONLINE
SOCIAL NETWORK OF
TWO BILLION-PLUS PEOPLE, IT
WON'T JUST BE A VENUE FOR CAT
VIDEOS TO BE SHARED.
WHAT BECAME CLEAR IN 2016 WAS
THAT A NETWORK... THERE'S SOME
BIG DOWNSIDE RISK.
ONE WHICH IS A STRIKING FEATURE
IN THE U.S. BUT I DON'T THINK IS
UNIQUELY U.S., IS POLARIZATION.
PEOPLE ON LARGE OR EVEN SMALL
SOCIAL NETWORKS DON'T JUST
CONGREGATE TOGETHER IN ONE BIG
CLUSTER.
THERE'S A CERTAIN
SELF-SEGREGATION.
IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY, IT'S
AN IDEOLOGICAL DISTINCTION.
PEOPLE WHO ARE LIBERALS
ESSENTIALLY SHARE WITH PEOPLE
WHO ARE LIBERALS AND
CONSERVATIVES DO THE SAME.
AND THERE'S AMAZINGLY LITTLE
TRAFFIC BETWEEN THESE CLUSTERS.
SO ONE BIG PROBLEM I THINK HAS
ARISEN FROM THE PREVALENCE OF
ONLINE NETWORKS IS THE
POLARIZATION THAT WAS ALREADY
THERE IN OUR POLITICAL LIFE IS
GETTING WORSE BECAUSE THE
ALGORITHM ENCOURAGES US TO HANG
OUT WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIKE-MINDED.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says STAY IN OUR ECHO CHAMBERS.

Niall says IN THE ECHO CHAMBERS, IN THE
FILTER BUBBLES.
THERE'S ONE PROBLEM.
I'LL MENTION ONE MORE WHICH I
THINK IS VERY RELEVANT TO YOUR
VIEWERS, AND THAT IS THE WAY IN
WHICH CRAZY STUFF GOES VIRAL.
THERE'S NO LAW THAT SAYS ONLY
GOOD THINGS GO VIRAL.
ACTUALLY IT TURNS OUT THAT QUITE
OFTEN BAD THINGS ARE MORE LIKELY
TO GO VIRAL BECAUSE WE'RE
INTERESTED IN FAKE NEWS AND IN
EXTREME VIEWS.
SO ONE THING THAT FACEBOOK HAS
TURNED OUT TO BE IS A FANTASTIC
TRANSMISSION MECHANISM FOR
DOWNRIGHT LIES AND A GOOD
EXAMPLE WAS THE STORY THAT THE
POPE HAD ENDORSED DONALD TRUMP
IN 2016.
PEOPLE FOUND THAT FASCINATING,
PERHAPS UNDERSTANDABLY.
THERE WAS ONLY ONE PROBLEM: IT
WAS COMPLETELY UNTRUE.
BUT BY THE TIME AN IDEA LIKE
THAT HAS BEEN SHARED BETWEEN,
WELL, PROBABLY NOT AS MANY AS
TWO BILLION PEOPLE, LET'S SAY
150, YOU KNOW, MILLION, THAT IS
STILL POTENTIALLY INFLUENTIAL ON
AN ELECTION OUTCOME.
ROUGHLY THE SAME NUMBER OF
PEOPLE AS VOTED IN THE U.S.
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2016
SAW FAKE NEWS THAT WAS GENERATED
BY THE RUSSIANS.
I MEAN, THAT'S A STAGGERING
THOUGHT.
THAT WAS NOT PART OF MARK
ZUCKERBERG'S PLAN WHEN FACEBOOK
WAS SET UP, I'M PRETTY SURE OF THAT.

Steve says YET WE'RE SURE IT
HAD NO IMPACT ON THE OUTCOME OF
THE ELECTION, RIGHT?

Niall says I DON'T THINK IT WAS DECISIVE
IN THE SENSE THAT, ALTHOUGH THAT
SOUNDS LIKE A BIG IMPACT, WHEN
YOU MEASURE THE SHARE OF ALL THE
CONTENT ON FACEBOOK DURING THE
ELECTION THAT WAS ACCOUNTED FOR
BY THE RUSSIANS, IT'S TINY.
BECAUSE CONTENT ON FACEBOOK IS
JUST MIND BOGGINGLY VOLUMINOUS.
BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND
BILLIONS OF THINGS GET SHARED ON
FACEBOOK IN THE SPACE OF A YEAR.

Steve says BUT YOU NEVER KNOW
WHAT'S INFLUENTIAL.

The caption changes to "Niall Ferguson, @nfergus."

Niall says RIGHT.
IN THAT EXTRAORDINARY PERIOD
AROUND DONALD TRUMP'S RISE TO
POWER, ALTHOUGH THE RUSSIANS
WERE CERTAINLY PLAYING IN THE
FACEBOOK SPACE, THEY WERE A
RELATIVELY SMALL PART OF WHAT
WAS BEING GENERATED.
MOST OF THE CONTENT, INCLUDING
MOST OF THE FAKE NEWS, WAS
DOMESTIC IN ORIGIN.
IT WAS BEING GENERATED BY
ORDINARY AMERICAN USERS OF
FACEBOOK.
SO I THINK WHAT WE SHOULD
REALIZE HERE IS NOT THAT THE
RUSSIANS DECIDED THE ELECTION, I
THINK THAT GOES TOO FAR, BUT
FACEBOOK WAS DECISIVE.
NO FACEBOOK, NO TRUMP.
WITHOUT FAKE, I'M PRETTY SURE HE
COULD NOT HAVE WON THE ELECTION.
PEOPLE TEND TO EMPHASIZE HIS
TWITTER FEED.
IT WAS FACEBOOK'S ADVERTISING
TOOLS THAT REALLY DECIDED THE
OUTCOME AND THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN
BY COMPARISON WAS FLAT-FOOTED.
DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF
FACEBOOK ADVERTISING.
I THINK ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT THINGS WE ALL HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND, CANADIANS AS WELL AS
AMERICANS, BRITS TOO... INDEED
ANYBODY IN ANY DEMOCRACY... IS
THAT THE FACEBOOK ADVERTISING
TOOL IS NOW THE MOST POWERFUL
WEAPON IN ANY ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

Steve says YOU CALL IT A WEAPON.

Niall says IT IS A WEAPON.

Steve says INTERESTING CHOICE
OF WORDS.

Niall says ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S A MUCH MORE POWERFUL WEAPON
THAN TELEVISION ADVERTISING
BECAUSE IT'S SO PRECISE.
IT GIVES YOU INSTANT FEEDBACK.
YOU CAN TELL WHICH ADVERTS ARE
HITTING WHICH DEMOGRAPHIC MOST
EFFECTIVELY.
THIS WAS VERY OBVIOUS IN THE
BREXIT CAMPAIGN WHICH PRECEDED
TRUMP'S VICTORY.
THE LEAVE CAMPAIGN, THE
ANTI-EUROPEAN CAMPAIGN,
UNDERSTOOD THE FACEBOOK TOOL AND
IT WAS ABLE TO CALIBRATE ITS
ADVERTISING, TARGET ITS
ADVERTISING, AT THE PEOPLE THAT
IT REALLY WANTED TO INFLUENCE.
THIS IS A MUCH MORE POWERFUL
WEAPON IN POLITICS THAN PEOPLE
GENERALLY APPRECIATE.
BELIEVE ME THEY GET IT AT
FACEBOOK.
THEY REALIZE, WOW, WE CAN MAKE A
LOT OF MONEY FROM THIS KIND OF
ADVERTISING.
I THINK THIS HAS CHANGED THE
PUBLIC SPHERE, THE PLACE WHERE
IDEAS ARE EXCHANGED HAS BEEN
IRREVOCABLY ALTERED BY THE
EMERGENCE OF GIANT ONLINE SOCIAL
NETWORKS.
AND I DON'T THINK WE FULLY
COMPREHEND HOW BIG THAT CHANGE IS.

Steve says SHALL WE DO AN
EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK?

Niall says BY ALL MEANS.

Steve says LET'S.
SHELDON, BRING THIS EXCERPT UP,
IF YOU WOULD?
HERE'S WHAT YOU HAD TO SAY ABOUT
FACEBOOK...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Digital inequality." The quote reads "Facebook promised to create an interconnected world of netizens. But its structure was profoundly inegalitarian. Facebook has 15,724 employees and close to 2 billion users, but only the tiniest fractions of these groups actually own Facebook stock. The global social network, in other words, is itself owned by an exclusive network of Silicon Valley insiders."
Quoted from Niall Ferguson, "The square and the tower." 2018.

Steve says THAT DOES SOUND
NEFARIOUS.
DO YOU MEAN IT TO?

Niall says AGAIN, IT'S NOT NEFARIOUS.
THEY DIDN'T SET OUT TO ACHIEVE
THIS.
BUT THE REALITY OF THE WAY THAT
THESE NETWORK PLATFORMS HAVE
EVOLVED IS THAT THEY QUICKLY
BECOME QUASI MONOPOLIES.
THERE'S NO OTHER SOCIAL NETWORK
THAT CAN COMPETE WITH FACEBOOK.
MYSPACE IS FORGOTTEN.
AND BECAUSE THEY'RE RELATIVELY
EASY TO RUN.
THEY DON'T REQUIRE THE EMPLOYEES
THAT GENERAL MOTORS REQUIRE.
THEY'RE QUITE SMALL.
THE MONEY THAT FLOWS IN FROM
ONLINE ADVERTISING IS
MIND-BLOWING.
WE'RE TALKING BILLIONS EVERY
QUARTER.
AND THE FOUNDER HAS A PRETTY
LARGE SHARE OF THE EQUITY.
IT'S NOT LIKE MARK ZUCKERBERG IS
ABOUT TO DO A FULL ANDREW
CARNEGIE AND GIVE IT ALL AWAY.
LIKE AMAZON, THE FOUNDER HAS AN
ENORMOUS STAKE OF AN INCREDIBLE
VALUABLE COMPANY, ONE OF THE
MOST VALUABLE COMPANIES IN THE
WORLD, AND YET WE ALL KIND OF
BELIEVE THAT FACEBOOK HAS MADE
THE WORLD FLATTER.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Niall continues I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
ILLUSIONS OF THE NETWORK WORLD,
WE ALL HAVE ACCESS AND CAN SPEAK
TRUTH TO POWER.
LET WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NETWORK
STRUCTURE, IT'S NOT EGALITARIAN
AT ALL.
A FEW PEOPLE HAVE CRAZY NUMBERS
OF CONNECTIONS.
LOOK AT HOW MANY FOLLOWERS
DONALD TRUMP HAS COMPARED WITH
LITTLE OLD US.
AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, A VERY
FEW PEOPLE OWN A REALLY HUGE
CHUNK OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF
THE ONLINE SOCIAL NETWORKS.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits with a male guest.
A caption reads "Polling Ontario."

Steve says WHEN YOU TYPICALLY,
LET'S SAY, BRING DOWN A BUDGET
IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, HOW
MUCH AWARENESS WOULD THERE BE IN
THE GENERAL POPULATION FOR
WHAT'S IN THAT BUDGET?

The guest says LESS THAN HALF.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU FIND IN
TERMS OF WHAT PERCENTAGE OF
PEOPLE WERE AWARE OF WHAT'S
GOING ON WITH THE PC PARTY THESE DAYS?

The caption changes to "Greg Lyle. Innovative Research Group."
A caption appears on screen. It reads "Understanding the political landscape."

Greg is in his late forties, with short thinning brown hair and a graying beard. He wears a black suit, a blue shirt and a patterned red tie.

Greg says 92 percent HAD HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT IT BEFORE THE POLL.

Steve says IS THAT UNUSUALLY HIGH?

Greg says I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING THAT
HIGH.
WE LOOK AT REAL-LIFE EVENTS AS
WELL.
AND THE ONLY THING I'VE EVER
SEEN THAT WAS CLOSE TO THAT WAS
2002, THE SILVER MEDAL
CONTROVERSY WHEN CANADIAN FIGURE
SKATERS SKATED THE BEST PROGRAM
BUT ONLY GOT...

Steve says I REMEMBER THAT.
THAT WAS THE OLYMPICS, WASN'T IT?

Greg says YEAH.
AND THEY ENDED UP GETTING A GOLD.

Steve says PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF
THIS STORY IN A VERY LARGE
NUMBER, AND YET, HERE'S WHERE
WE'RE GOING TO SHOW A BUNCH OF
CHARTS FROM YOUR WORK.
LET'S DO THE FIRST ONE, SHELDON.
HERE'S HOW THE VOTE CHANGED FROM
BEFORE THE CONTROVERSY TO AFTER
THE CONTROVERSY, AND IT BARELY
CHANGED AT ALL, GREG.

A bar chart appears on screen with the title "Combined Provincial Vote: Marginal increase in NDP votes along with decrease in undecided. Liberals and PC hold steady."

Greg says RIGHT.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO SIGNIFICANT
CHANGE IN LIBERAL OR TORY
SUPPORT.
THE NDP IS UP A FEW POINTS.
THEY'RE UP 4 POINTS.
AND THAT IS STATISTICALLY
SIGNIFICANT WHEN YOU COMPARE THE
TWO SAMPLES.
AND THAT CAME MOSTLY FROM
UNDECIDEDS AND MOSTLY FROM WOMEN.

Steve says DO YOU HAVE A THEORY
AS TO WHY SUCH A CATACLYSMIC
BOMB COULD BE DROPPED ON A PARTY
AND BASICALLY NOTHING CHANGES?

Greg says RIGHT.
THE FIRST THING WE DID IS WE
ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
PARTIES SO WE DIDN'T PRIME THE
CONSIDERATION.
AND THEN FOLLOWING THOSE SORTS
OF QUESTIONS, WE THEN ASKED,
HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING ABOUT
THIS CONTROVERSY?
DO YOU THINK IT COULD HAPPEN
TO... IS IT A TORY SORT OF THING
OR COULD IT HAPPEN TO ANY PARTY?
HOW DO YOU THINK THE TORIES HAVE
RESPONDED?
AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE SAW IS,
NUMBER ONE, THIS IS A MOMENT.
SO FOR A BRIEF MOMENT, PEOPLE
THAT NORMALLY WHO DON'T PAY A
LOT OF ATTENTION TO POLITICS
TUNED IN.
AND WHAT THEY SAW WAS SOMETHING
THAT THEY FELT COULD HAVE
HAPPENED TO ANY PARTY, NOT JUST
THE TORIES, AND SOMETHING WHERE
THEY THOUGHT OVERALL, AS OF A
WEEK AGO, THAT THE TORIES HAD
RESPONDED WELL TO IT.

Steve says WE ACTUALLY HAVE A
GRAPHIC HERE THAT INDICATES THAT.
LET'S DO THAT ONE, SHELDON.
HERE'S YOUR PIE CHART.

A pie chart appears with the caption "More likely for the PC Party? Three quarters say it’s equally likely to happen in any party, but big variation across segments."

Steve says WHEN ASKED, IS THIS A PARTICULAR
PROBLEM FOR THE PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY OR COULD THIS
HAPPEN TO ANYBODY, YOU'VE GOT
THREE-QUARTERS OF THE PEOPLE
SAYING THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED
ANYWHERE.

Greg says RIGHT.
AND THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE
SMALL GROUP THAT SAY IT'S LIKELY
A TORY THING ARE PEOPLE THAT
DON'T LOOK LIKE THEY'RE VERY
LIKELY TO VOTE TORY ANYHOW.

Steve says SO IN TERMS OF, WILL
THIS SCANDAL POTENTIALLY AFFECT
THE VOTE ON ELECTION DAY, IT
SEEMS TO BE THE ANSWER IS NO.

Greg says AT THE MOMENT.

Steve says AT THE MOMENT.
OF COURSE.
THINGS CAN CHANGE.

Greg says IT'S BROUGHT ISSUES TO THE
FRONT THAT WE'LL SEE HOW THEY
PLAY OUT.

Steve says TAKE US THROUGH THIS
NEXT CHART HERE.
THIS IS VOTE LOYALTY
SEGMENTATION, AND YOU'VE GOT
HERE... I'LL SHOW IT TO YOU
HERE.
THERE IT IS UP THERE RIGHT NOW.
WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO SEE IN THIS CHART?

Another pie chart appears with the caption "Vote loyalty segmentation: equal numbers of original Liberal and PC voters switch with new PC Party leader."

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Greg says ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE DID IN
THE SURVEY WAS, AT THE END OF
THE SURVEY... AT THE START WE
ASKED... IT'S THE VERY FIRST
THING WE DO SO WE'RE NOT PRIMING
OTHER CONSIDERATIONS.
SO AT THE END OF THE SURVEY WHEN
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT
PATRICK BROWN IS GONE AND WE'VE
RAISED THE LIST OF NINE NAMES OF
PEOPLE THAT MIGHT RUN, WE THEN
ASKED THEM TO VOTE AGAIN.
THIS TIME WE DID IT WITH LEADER
ATTACHED.
IN THE NEXT ELECTION, THERE WILL
BE A NEW TORY LEADER.
IF THE NEW TORY LEADER IS, FILL
IN THE BLANK, HOW LIKELY WOULD
YOU BE TO VOTE FOR FILL IN THE
BLANK'S PC, KATHLEEN WYNNE'S
LIBERALS, AND ANDREA HORWATH'S
NDPs.
WHAT WE FOUND WAS SOMETHING THAT
SURPRISED ME.
WE FOUND BOTH THE LIBERALS AND
THE TORIES HAD THEIR VOTE GO
DOWN AND ALL THOSE VOTERS GO TO
UNDECIDED.
THE NDP, HOWEVER, STAYED FIRM.
AND SO THAT'S SAYING A COUPLE OF
THINGS THAT ARE REALLY
INTERESTING.
ONE IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
CURRENTLY NEW DEMOCRAT AREN'T
GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MIND.
THEY'RE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN
THE TORIES.
IT WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO
THEM.
THE LIBERALS HAVE THE POTENTIAL
TO PULL SOME TORIES OVER TO
THEIR SIDE, RIGHT, BECAUSE A
BUNCH OF TORIES ARE SAYING THAT
PEOPLE THAT ARE TORY TODAY ARE
SAYING WHETHER I STAY TORY OR
NOT DEPENDS ON WHO THE TORIES
ELECT.

Steve says THE NEXT CONVENTION IS KEY.

Greg says THE SCARY THING FOR THE
LIBERALS IS JUST AS MANY, IN
FACT A FEW MORE THAT ARE
CURRENTLY LIBERAL WENT ON THE
FENCE AND SAY WHETHER I STAY
LIBERAL OR NOT DEPENDS ON WHO
THE TORIES ELECT.

Steve says SO ESSENTIAL LIBERAL
VOTERS MAY BE POTENTIAL
CONSERVATIVE VOTERS DEPENDING ON
WHO THE TORIES PICK?

Greg says EXACTLY.
THIS OPENS THE DOOR FOR THE
LIBERALS TO BE ABLE TO PULL THE
TORIES DOWN AND TO FIND A WAY
BACK INTO OFFICE.
BY THE SAME TOKEN THEY COULD BE
WORSE THAN THEY ARE TODAY IF THE
TORIES ARE ABLE TO PULL SOME OF
THE LIBERALS BACK OVER.
NORMALLY WHEN WE DO A TRIAL
BALLOT LIKE THIS IS, IF
ANYTHING, PEOPLE STAY ABOUT THE
SAME, UNDECIDED DOESN'T GROW AND
SOME LEADERS POP IS BEING MORE
POPULAR THAN OTHERS.
WE JUST HAD THAT SITUATION
HAPPEN IN B.C. WITH THE B.C.
LIBERAL LEADERSHIP RACE AND
THERE WERE IMPORTANT
DIFFERENCES.
IN THIS ONE IT DIDN'T MATTER WHO
THE LEADER WAS.
IN ALL CASES PEOPLE SAID I'M
GOING TO SIT BACK AND WAIT.
I HAVE NEW INFORMATION TO
CONSIDER.
AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT MAKES
THE RACE A LOT CLOSER AND MAKES
THE NDP MORE COMPETITIVE THAN
THEY LOOK IN OTHER TYPES OF WAYS
OF DOING THE VOTE QUESTION THAN
WE WOULD NORMALLY SEE.
AND SO YOU NOW HAVE A PLAUSIBLE
SCENARIO... NOT NECESSARILY A
LIKELY SCENARIO... BUT A
PLAUSIBLE SCENARIO WHERE THE NDP
COULD ACTUALLY MOVE INTO
GOVERNMENT.
MORE LIKELY SCENARIOS WHERE
EITHER THE LIBERALS ARE ABLE TO
HOLD ON OR THE TORIES ARE ABLE
TO REPLACE THEM.

Steve says SO YOU SEE
POTENTIALLY... LET'S REINFORCE
THE POINT... BETWEEN FOUR AND
FIVE MONTHS STILL TO GO UNTIL
ELECTION DAY.
MY TAKE YOU'RE INFERRING FIVE OR
SIX DIFFERENT SCENARIOS UNTIL
ELECTION DAY?

Greg says IT SEEMS SO.
AT THIS POINT IT'S RELATIVELY
UNLIKELY THE LIBERALS WOULD BE
ABLE TO WIN ANOTHER MAJORITY.
TO DO THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A
TORY THAT THE PUBLIC WAS VERY
SCARED ABOUT OR WITH SOME SCARY
POLICIES.
BUT WHETHER IT'S A MINORITY OR
NOT I THINK IS VERY MUCH UP IN
THE AIR, AND WHETHER THE TORIES
COULD PULL OUT A MAJORITY
DEPENDS ON HOW THE PUBLIC REACTS
TO THE LEADER BUT IT'S OPEN TO A
LARGE MAJORITY.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says SO FAR YOU'VE GOT
THE PUBLIC APPROVING, AS OPPOSED
TO DISAPPROVING, OF THE WAY THE
PC PARTY HAS HANDLED ALL OF THE
SCANDALOUS NEWS OF THE LAST
WEEK, WEEK AND A HALF OR SO, BY
A TWO-TO-ONE MARGIN.
AGAIN, AS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR
SURPRISES OUT THERE, HOW BIG OF
A ONE WAS THAT?

A bar chart appears with the caption "Approval-disapproval of PC Party response to accusations against Patrick brown."

The chart data shows 41 percent of approval and 20 percent of disapproval.

Greg says TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS WE
LOOK AT THE WORLD BASED ON OURPARTISANSHIP.
WHAT I WAS EXPECTING TO SEE IS
WHAT WE USUALLY SEE IS LIBERALS
WOULD DISAPPROVE OF THE JOB THE
TORIES HAVE DONE.
PEOPLE PUT THEIR PARTISAN LENSES
ASIDE WHEN THEY WERE MAKING THEJUDGMENT.
THAT WAS QUITE A BIG SURPRISE.

The clips end and Steve stands in the studio alone.

He says THAT IS THE AGENDA'S
WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS FRIDAY,
FEBRUARY 9, 2018.
YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THOSE
CONVERSATIONS IN THEIR ENTIRETY
AT tvo.org, ON OUR YouTube
CHANNEL AT
youtube.com/theagenda.
AND THANKS TO OUR NIGHTLY
TWITTER LIVESTREAM, ON OUR
PERISCOPE PAGE AT
periscope.tv/TheAgenda.

Watch: The Agenda's Week in Review