Transcript: Leaving Hate Behind | Sep 11, 2017

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped red and pink tie.

A caption on screen reads "Leaving hate behind. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says SHE WAS A TEEN GROWING
UP IN SCARBOROUGH IN THE EARLY
1990S, WHEN SHE ANSWERED THE
SIREN CALL OF HATE AND JOINED
THE NEO-NAZI GROUP, THE HERITAGE
FRONT.
HE WAS THE HEAD OF THE CANADIAN
JEWISH CONGRESS.
THAT'S WHERE THEIR QUITE
INCREDIBLE STORY BEGINS, AND
NOW, WE'RE PLEASED PICK UP ON
THAT STORY, HERE IN OUR STUDIO
TONIGHT.
SHE IS ELIZABETH MOORE...

Elizabeth is in her forties, with chestnut hair in a short bob and bangs. She's wearing a gray blazer over a brown blouse.

Steve continues HE IS BERNIE FARBER, NOW
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
MOSAIC INSTITUTE.

Bernie is in his fifties, clean-shaven and balding. He's wearing round glasses, a gray plaid suit, and a white shirt.

Steve continues I'M DELIGHTED TO WELCOME THIS
GENERATION'S VERSION OF THE ODD
COUPLE TO TVO TONIGHT.
ELIZABETH, I WANT TO START WITH
YOU AND PICK UP THE STORY FROM
WHERE WE LEFT ON IN THAT
INTRODUCTION.
YOU'VE JOINED THE HERITAGE
FRONT.
LET'S START WITH WHY.

The caption changes to "Elizabeth Moore. Former Neo Nazi."
Then, it changes again to "Joining the movement."

Elizabeth says WHY.
THERE IS NO SIMPLE ANSWER TO
THAT QUESTION, BUT THERE WERE
MANY CIRCUMSTANCES THAT LED ME
INTO THE HERITAGE FRONT.
THERE WERE SOME ISSUES AT
HOME... YOU KNOW, NOTHING
SERIOUS... YEAH, AS A TEENAGER.
NOTHING SERIOUS.
I WASN'T GETTING BEATEN AT HOME
OR ANYTHING.
BUT HOME LIFE WAS NOT ENTIRELY
HAPPY.
I FELT VERY ALIENATED AT MY
SCHOOL.
I WAS BEING PICKED ON A BIT, AS
A LOT OF KIDS ARE.
AND THERE WAS ALSO A VERY SORT
OF UNIQUE DEMOGRAPHIC HAPPENING
AT MY SCHOOL AT THE TIME.
THERE WERE BOTH VERY DIFFERENT
CULTURAL GROUPS MOVING INTO THE
NEIGHBOURHOOD, AND THEY WERE
ALSO DIVIDED ALONG CLASS AND
ECONOMIC LINES.
SO YOU HAD IMMIGRANTS FROM HONG
KONG COMING IN AT THE TIME WHO
WERE VERY WELL OFF, AND YOU HAD
PEOPLE MOSTLY FROM JAMAICA WHO
WERE LIVING IN PUBLIC HOUSING,
AND THERE WAS... THERE WAS
ANIMOSITY FLYING IN ALL
DIRECTIONS.
IT WAS A REAL POWDER KEG AT MY
SCHOOL.

Steve says SO THIS GROUP SORT
OF PROVIDED A... WHAT?... SOME
SEMBLANCE OF SANITY IN AN INSANE WORLD?

Elizabeth says THEY
PROVIDED BLACK-AND-WHITE ANSWERS
TO A GRAY AREA THAT WAS VERY
DIFFICULT FOR SOMEONE 17, 18
YEARS OLD TO NAVIGATE.

Steve says YOU REACHED OUT TO
HIM THOUGH, RIGHT?
AT SOME POINT... WHAT HAPPENED
IN YOUR HEAD THAT YOU JUST
THOUGHT, I'M GOING TO CALL
BERNIE FARBER OF THE CANADIAN
JEWISH CONGRESS BECAUSE I'VE GOT
SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT'S
GOING ON?

Elizabeth says THAT
DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL MUCH LATER,
THOUGH.
THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL I WAS
READY TO LEAVE THE HERITAGE
FRONT.

Steve says OKAY.
WE'RE SORT OF CUTTING TO THE
CHASE HERE, RIGHT?

Elizabeth says OKAY.

Steve says YOU'RE WITH THIS
GROUP.
AT SOME POINT YOU START
QUESTIONING WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN
THIS GROUP, RIGHT?

Elizabeth says YEAH.

Steve says SO YOU REACH OUT TO
BERNIE.
WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

Elizabeth says BECAUSE HE
WAS THE PERSON I WAS MOST
FAMILIAR WITH WHO WAS, QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, ON THE OTHER SIDE.
HE WAS ALWAYS THERE.
HIS ORGANIZATION, CANADIAN
JEWISH CONGRESS AT THE TIME WAS
CONSTANTLY LAYING LEGAL CHARGES
AGAINST, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS OF
THE HERITAGE FRONT.
IF THERE WAS A COURT CASE, IF
THERE WAS PRESS TO DO, HE WAS
THERE.
HE ALSO STRUCK ME AS A PERSON
WHO WAS... YOU KNOW, I CAN'T
ACTUALLY SAY HONEST BECAUSE AT
THAT TIME MY VIEWS OF THE WORLD
WERE SO SKEWED, BUT I SAW HIM AS
SOMEONE WHO WAS SOLID AND
SOMEONE THAT WOULD GIVE ME
STRAIGHT ANSWERS AND THAT I
COULD TRUST.
AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHO ELSE TO
CALL.

Steve says BERNIE, I'M GOING TO
GUESS THAT YOUR PHONE AT THAT
TIME WAS NOT RINGING EVERY DAY
WITH MEMBERS OF THE HERITAGE
FRONT SAYING, "CAN WE GO OUT FOR COFFEE?"

Bernie says NO.

Steve says HOW DID YOU KNOW
WHEN ELIZABETH CALLED YOU IT
WASN'T NEFARIOUS OR A TRAP?

The caption changes to "Bernie Farber. Mosaic Institute."

Bernie says IT'S AN
INTERESTING STORY.
I WAS SPEAKING AT VARIOUS
UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES AT THE TIME
AND IT SO HAPPENED I WAS
SPEAKING ONE EVENING AT QUEENS
UNIVERSITY THERE THERE WAS A
LARGE GROUP, THERE MUST HAVE
BEEN 200 OR 300 PEOPLE.
I WAS SPEAKING ABOUT THE RISE OF
NEO-NAZISM, THE HERITAGE FRONT.
AND WE KNEW WHO THE BAD GUYS AND
BAD GIRLS WERE AT THE TIME.
AND SURE ENOUGH IN THE FRONT ROW
WAS ELIZABETH MOORE AS I WAS
KIND OF TALKING ABOUT HER.
SHE WAS VERY MUCH A FACE OF THE
HERITAGE FRONT.
THE NAZIS LOVE TO USE YOUNG
ATTRACTIVE WOMEN AS THEIR FRONT
FACE, SO TO SPEAK.
AND THEY BECAME VERY DAMAGED AS
A RESULT AS WELL, WHICH
ELIZABETH I'M SURE WILL TELL YOU
ABOUT.
BUT WHILE I AM TALKING ABOUT WHO
TO LOOK OUT FOR, THERE SHE WAS
TAKING NOTES AND TAKING NOTES
AND I WAS LOOKING STRAIGHT AT
HER, AND I GUESS I COULD VERY
WELL POINTED HER OUT BUT I CHOSE
NOT TO...

Elizabeth says WHICH I APPRECIATE.

Bernie says THAT COULD
HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY
NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
AND I THINK THAT WAS PART OF WHY
AT THE END, YOU KNOW, SHE
REACHED OUT TO ME I THINK THE
NEXT DAY AT MY OFFICE AND CALLED
ME AND SAID... AND THANKED ME
FOR NOT EXPOSING HER, SO TO
SPEAK, AND BASICALLY SAID, I'D
LIKE TO MEET.
AND I SAID SURE.
YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT GOING TO SAY
NO.
I THINK... YOU KNOW, I HEARD IN
HER VOICE KIND OF A BIT OF A
PLAINTIVE PLEA.

Steve says IT'S IN KINGSTON,
HAVING JUST DONE THIS EVENT AT
QUEENS AND YOU CALL HIM UP AND
YOU GO OUT AND YOU MEET.
WHAT ARE YOU ASKING HIM?

The caption changes to "Seeds of doubt."

Elizabeth says AT THE
TIME I THINK... I JUST WANTED TO
KNOW WHAT TO DO.
I WAS AT THE POINT WHERE, YOU
KNOW, I THINK I HAD... IN MY
MIND LAID A LOT OF THE
GROUNDWORK OF JUST, YOU KNOW,
REALLY SEEING WHAT THE HERITAGE
FRONT WAS ALL ABOUT, REALLY
SEEING WHO THESE NEO-NAZIS WERE
AND UNDERSTANDING THAT I DIDN'T
WANT MY LIFE AND THE PEOPLE IN
MY LIFE TO BE REVOLVING AROUND
HATRED.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS
PRE INTERNET, THIS WAS REALLY
PRE ACCESS TO INFORMATION THE
WAY WE HAVE TODAY, AND I DIDN'T
KNOW HOW ONE GOES ABOUT LEAVING
A POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS
ORGANIZATION.

Steve says SO HOW DID THAT
FIRST MEETING WITH BERNIE GO?

Elizabeth says IT WAS TENSE.

Bernie says YEAH.
IT WAS TENSE FOR SURE.
MORE I THINK ON ELIZABETH'S PART
THAN ON MINE.
I WAS JUST PREPARED TO HEAR HER
OUT.
I COME FROM A SOCIAL WORK
BACKGROUND.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK
I'M A LAWYER BECAUSE OF ALL THE
LEGAL CASES BUT I COME FROM A
SOCIAL WORK BACKGROUND.
I WAS INVOLVED WITH THE
CHILDREN'S AID SOCIETY FOR YEARS
AND MANY OTHER YOUTH PROGRAMS.
SO IT WAS REALLY A CHANCE TO
TAKE A LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WHERE
ELIZABETH WAS COMING FROM AND
THERE WAS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND
THAT SHE WANTED OUT, BUT HOW
DOES ONE EXTRICATE ONESELF FROM
SUCH A POWERFUL GRASP .

Elizabeth says THAT IS
THE BIG QUESTION.
HOW DO YOU DO IT SAFELY?

Steve says YOU'RE AFRAID TO
LEAVE BECAUSE THE CONSEQUENCES
COULD BE INJURIOUS TO YOUR HEALTH.
YOU HAD THE MEETING IN KINGSTON
AND A FEW MONTHS LATER YOU MEET
AGAIN IN TORONTO?

Bernie says CORRECT.

Steve says BERNIE, TELL ME
ABOUT THAT MEETING.

The caption changes to "I don't want to be a Nazi anymore."

Bernie says THE MEETING
TOOK PLACE AT MY OFFICE AT THE
CANADIAN JEWISH CONGRESS.
I MADE THE DECISION AT THAT
POINT.
WE WERE ATTACHED TO, AS IS
TODAY, THE HOLOCAUST EDUCATION
AND MEMORIAL CENTRE.
IT'S CALLED THE NUREMBERG
HOLOCAUST CENTRE WHICH IS AN
AMAZING PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO GO
TO.

Steve says IN THE NORTHEAST
PART OF TORONTO.

Bernie says AT BATHURST
AND SHEPPARD.
I TOOK HER ON A TOUR.
I SUPPOSE I WANTED IN THE BACK
OF MY MIND... HERE WAS A YOUNG
WOMAN THE FACE OF THE HERITAGE
FRONT, HOLOCAUST DENIERS, WHITE
SUPREMACISTS, NEO-NAZIS, AND
HERE I WAS THE CHILD OF A
HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR, HAVING
FOUGHT NAZISM MOST OF MY
PROFESSIONAL LIFE, AND HERE WAS
AN OPPORTUNITY TO WALK SOMEBODY
THROUGH THE HOLOCAUST CENTRE AND
SEE WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE...
BECAUSE TO ME HER RESPONSE IS
GOING TO JUDGE WHETHER OR NOT I
WAS GOING TO CONTINUE WITH THIS.

Steve says SO LET'S FIND OUT.
WHAT IMPACT DID THAT TOUR HAVE ON YOU?

Elizabeth says HUGE.

Steve says HOW SO?

Elizabeth says BY THE
TIME I WENT INTO THE MUSEUM WITH
HIM, I HAD... I KNEW I WANTED
OUT.
THAT WAS NOT IN QUESTION.
BUT I HADN'T FULLY CONFRONTED MY
BELIEFS YET.
YOU KNOW, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW
WHERE I WAS ON ALL THAT.
SO WHEN WE FIRST MET IN HIS
OFFICE, HE WAS CONFRONTING ME
ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS, I
JUST... I COULDN'T EVEN REALLY
RESPOND BECAUSE I JUST HAD ALL
THIS GARBAGE IN MY HEAD THAT...
I DIDN'T KNOW.
AND SO THEN WE WENT IN AND I'M
BEING CONFRONTED WITH THE
EVIDENCE... AND BEING CONFRONTED
WITH THE EVIDENCE WAS JUST
EMOTIONALLY VERY OVERWHELMING.
I REMEMBER THERE WAS ONE MOMENT
WE WALKED UP TO THIS PICTURE AND
THERE'S THIS HALLWAY WHEN YOU GO
IN FILLED WITH PICTURES OF
PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED DURING
THE HOLOCAUST, AND IT WAS A
PORTRAIT OF A BABY.
YOU KNOW, JUST YOUR TYPICAL
PORTRAIT THAT YOU GET OF LITTLE
CHILDREN.
AND HE POINTED AT THIS CHILD AND
SAID, "THIS BABY WAS KILLED IN
THE GAS CHAMBERS OF AUSCHWITZ.
NOW, YOU TELL ME WHAT THIS BABY
HAD TO DO WITH ANY JEWISH
CONSPIRACY?"
I STILL GET EMOTIONAL TODAY OVER THAT.
AND I JUST...

Steve says HOW DID YOU RESPOND
TO THAT?

Elizabeth says I DON'T
THINK I EVEN SAID ANYTHING.

Bernie says I'LL TELL
YOU WHAT YOU SAID.

Elizabeth says I DON'T
REMEMBER.

Bernie says YOU SAID TO
ME, "I DON'T KNOW HOW I LOST MY
HUMANITY."
AND I SAID TO YOU, "THE GOOD
THING ABOUT HUMANITY IS, YOU CAN
ALWAYS GET IT BACK."

Elizabeth says WHAT
REALLY STRUCK ME AT THAT TIME
WAS THAT HERE WERE THESE PEOPLE
BEING QUITE LITERALLY KILLED FOR
BEING THEMSELVES AND THEY WERE
FIGHTING WITH EVERYTHING THEY
HAD TO MAINTAIN THEIR HUMANITY,
AND I FELT LIKE I HAD WILLINGLY
GIVEN MINE AWAY AND IT JUST...
IT FELT REALLY HOPELESS UNTIL HE
SAID, YOU KNOW, "WELL, YOU CAN
ALWAYS GET IT BACK."
AND THAT REALLY BECAME SOMETHING
THAT I GRASPED ONTO IN THE
MONTHS FOLLOWING WHEN I FINALLY
LEFT THE HERITAGE FRONT AND WENT
THROUGH SOME VERY PAINFUL
PERSONAL TIME OF TRYING TO
REBUILD MY LIFE, I CAN DO THIS,
I CAN GET IT BACK.
IT DID TAKE TIME.

Bernie says IT WAS A PROCESS.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE
HAD TO DO, WHICH I THINK WAS THE
MOST DIFFICULT THING FOR YOU TO
DO, YOU HAD A BOYFRIEND AT THE
TIME.

Elizabeth says I DID.

Bernie says AND I SAID, LOOK.
MY FATHER USED TO SAY, IF YOU
WANT TO CHOP OFF A DOG'S TAIL,
DO YOU CHOP IT OFF LITTLE BY
LITTLE OR JUST CHOP IT.
I USED TO SAY TO HIM, WHY WOULD
YOU WANT TO CHOP OFF A DOG'S
TAIL?
BUT IN THIS CASE SHE NEEDED TO
MAKE A CLEAN, COMPLETE, AND
TOTAL BREAK.

Steve says WITH THIS GUY?

Bernie says WITH THIS GUY.
WITH THE FRONT, WITH EVERYTHING.
AS LONG AS SHE HAD THIS
RELATIONSHIP, THE BREAK WASN'T
GOING TO HAPPEN.
I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
DIFFICULTY PIECES.

Steve says DID YOU BREAK UP
WITH HIM?

Elizabeth says YES.

Steve says HOW DID HE TAKE IT?

Elizabeth says NOT WELL.

Steve says THAT WAS THE BOYFRIEND.
THAT WAS THE FRONT.
HOW DID YOU DO IT?
HOW DID YOU BREAK UP WITH THE FRONT?

Elizabeth says AT FIRST
IT WAS SLOWLY PULLING BACK FROM
THE THINGS THAT I WAS ACTIVE IN.
I WAS A WRITER AND I SUPPOSE AN
ASSISTANT EDITOR OF A FASHION
FOR THEIR MAGAZINE.
AGAIN, PRE-INTERNET, SO THEY HAD
STUFF IN PRINT.
I WAS INVOLVED WITH A HATE LINE,
A TELEPHONE HATE LINE RECORDING
OUTGOING MESSAGES ON IT.
SO I HAD TO SLOWLY STOP ALL
THESE ACTIVITIES WITHOUT RAISING
SUSPICION.
I'M SURE I DIDN'T SUCCEED.

Steve says TELL ME THIS: WHY
COULD YOU NOT GO TO WHOEVER THE
HEAD OF THE FRONT WAS AT THE
TIME, WAS IT...

[MIXED VOICES]

Steve says GO TO HIM AND SAY, YOU KNOW
WHAT?
CHANGE OF HEART.
I'M OUTTA HERE.

Elizabeth says I THINK I
WOULD HAVE BEEN HURT.

Steve says HE WOULD HAVE BEATEN
YOU UP?

Elizabeth says I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO HAD
BEEN UNDER SUSPICION OF GIVING
INFORMATION TO ANTI-RACIST
ACTIVISTS AND THEY ENDED UP
BEING HURT AND BEATEN QUITE
BADLY.

Steve says DID YOU WORK ON A
STRATEGY ON HOW TO EXTRICATE HER
SAFELY?

Bernie says THERE WASN'T
A LOT OF STRATEGIES AVAILABLE AT
THAT TIME.

Elizabeth says NO.

Bernie says NOBODY
THOUGHT ABOUT THESE THINGS.
WE TOOK IT STEP BY STEP.
AS LIZ SAID, SHE SLOWLY TOOK
HERSELF OUT.
BY THE WAY, SHE WAS ONE OF A
COUPLE OF WOMEN THAT WERE
INVOLVED IN THE HERITAGE FRONT,
BOTH OF WHOM ACTUALLY, ELIZABETH
AND ANOTHER YOUNG WOMAN BY THE
NAME OF LISA HANNIGAN, BOTH OF
THEM ENDED UP BEING HEROES IN
TERMS OF HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO
TAKE THEMSELVES OUT, HOW THEY
WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE
SYSTEM, TO BASICALLY SHUT DOWN
THE HERITAGE FRONT.
AND SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE,
IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING THAT
THE WOMEN WERE THE HEROES IN
SHUTTING THIS DOWN.
THERE WERE OTHERS INVOLVED AS
WELL, THE BRISTOL AFFAIR, HE WAS
THE MOLE.
ALL OF THIS CAME TOGETHER AS A
RESULT OF THE WOMEN WHO FULL
TIMELY TOOK A STAND AND SAID,
WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH
THIS ANYMORE.
AND IT WAS A STEP-BY-STEP, SLOW
PROCESS.
I'LL TELL YOU ONE MORE KIND OF
FUNNY STORY.
THAT SAME NIGHT AFTER I DID NOT
EXPOSE ELIZABETH, TWO DAYS LATER
I HAPPENED TO BE IN COURT ON A
WOLFGANG DROGI MATTER.
I WAS IN THE WASHROOM AND
WOLFGANG LEANED OVER TO ME AND
SAID, THANK YOU FOR NOT EXPOSING
ELIZABETH, TURNED AROUND AND
WALKED AWAY.
IT WAS KIND OF CREEPY.

A black and white picture shows several men in their twenties and thirties leaving a building. Most of them wear leather jackets.

Steve says JUST TO CLARIFY.
ONCE YOU EVENTUALLY DID
EXTRICATE YOURSELF FROM THE
GROUP, WERE THERE ANY
CONSEQUENCES, PHYSICAL AND-OR
EMOTIONAL AND OTHERWISE?

Elizabeth says FORTUNATELY THE CONSEQUENCES
FROM HERITAGE FRONT MEMBERS WERE
MINIMAL, AND I'M TO THIS DAY
VERY GRATEFUL FOR THAT.
THERE WERE SOME AWKWARD THINGS
FROM MY EX-BOYFRIEND.
HE SENT FLOWERS TO MY PARENTS'
HOUSE.
HE WOULD SEND LETTERS.
AND IT WOULD BE VERY CREEPY.
MY PARENTS' HOUSE WAS ALSO
LOCATED AT THE TIME LITERALLY
WITHIN VIEW OF ANOTHER HERITAGE
FRONT MEMBER'S HOUSE.
SO WHEN I RETURNED TO TORONTO TO
VISIT MY FAMILY, IT WAS ALWAYS A
VERY STRESSFUL TIME, JUST NEVER
BEING SURE, AM I SAFE OR NOT?
HAVE THEY SEEN ME OR NOT?
BUT FORTUNATELY, I WAS OKAY.
EMOTIONALLY, ON A PERSONAL
LEVEL, I HAD SO MUCH REBUILDING
TO DO BECAUSE MY ENTIRE WORLD
VIEW HAD FORMED AROUND A RACIST
LENS.
YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING FROM WHAT I
ATE TO WHAT I WATCHED ON
TELEVISION.
LIKE, EVERYTHING.

Steve says TO WHO YOUR FRIENDS
COULD BE OR COULDN'T BE?

Elizabeth says EXACTLY.
IT TOOK A LOT OF TIME, A LOT OF
SELF-EXPLORATION ON MY PART TO I
GUESS FIND MYSELF AGAIN.
I WAS ALSO VERY LUCKY THAT I WAS
AT QUEENS AND I HAD AN
OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE COURSES TO
EDUCATE MYSELF.
I TOOK COURSES IN HOLOCAUST
HISTORY, I TOOK COURSES IN
RACISM IN CANADA.
AND THOSE HELPED TREMENDOUSLY IN
KIND OF SORTING THINGS OUT IN MY
MIND AND SETTING THE RECORD
STRAIGHT FOR ME.

Steve says BERNIE, HOW MUCH OF
ELIZABETH'S STORY DO YOU THINK
IS KIND OF TRANSFERABLE INASMUCH
AS IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO
DERADICALIZE OR DEPROGRAM
SOMEBODY FROM A HATEFUL PAST, IS
THIS A TEMPLATE FOR IT?

Bernie says IT IS A TEMPLATE.
I'VE LEARNED YOU CANNOT
EXTRICATE SOMEBODY WHO DOES NOT
WANT TO BE EXTRICATED.
YOU REMEMBER BACK IN THE DAYS OF
CULTS, PEOPLE EXTRICATED THEM
AND TRIED TO DEPROGRAM THEM.
MUCH OF THAT DID NOT WORK.
WE'RE FINDING THAT TODAY.
ELIZABETH DID WANT TO GET OUT.
SHE WAS READY.
SHE NEEDED THAT PUSH.
IF I WAS ABLE TO GIVE THAT PUSH,
THAT WAS GREAT.
BY THE WAY, THERE WERE TWO
OTHERS WHO CAME TO ME AFTERWARDS
AS WELL WHO WERE SIGNIFICANT
MEMBERS OF NEO-NAZI GROUPS.
ONE DID GET OUT AND IS OUT.
ONE I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
TO THEM.
BUT FOR SOME REASON I BECAME A
BIT OF A FATHER CONFESSOR TO
THESE PEOPLE I SUPPOSE BECAUSE
OF MY VISIBILITY.
IF I WERE ABLE TO GIVE THEM THAT
PUSH, I DID.
IF I BELIEVED IN MY HEART OF
HEARTS THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT
THEY WANTED.
BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A SENSE
THERE THAT THE PERSON REALLY
WANTS TO FIND A WAY OUT.

Steve says ON THE OTHER SIDE,
ELIZABETH, WHAT IS THE LESSON
FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE FOR TODAY'S
KIDS WHO MAY FIND THEMSELVES
ROOTLESS, LOOKING FOR A QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, PACT TO JOIN SO THEY
FEEL THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF
TIGHT UNIT THEY CAN BELONG TO.
WHAT'S THE LESSON FROM YOUR
EXPERIENCE ABOUT HOW NOT TO HAVE
THAT HAPPEN, OBVIOUSLY?

Elizabeth says THE
LESSON, I WOULD SAY, IS TO THINK
FOR YOURSELF AND DO YOUR
RESEARCH AND, YOU KNOW, TODAY
THERE IS JUST SO MUCH
INFORMATION OUT THERE, BOTH TRUE
AND FAKE, AND THAT, YOU KNOW,
YOU HAVE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF.
IF SOMEBODY TELLS YOU SOMETHING
THAT SEEMS A BIT OUT THERE,
LIKE, OH, WELL, THE HOLOCAUST
DIDN'T REALLY HAPPEN OR IT
WASN'T REALLY AS BAD AS THEY...
AS THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE,
THAT IT'S UP TO YOU TO GO ONTO
THE INTERNET AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ONE
LAST QUESTION, AND THAT IS, I
MEAN, HAVING MADE THIS
TRANSFORMATION, YOU COULD VERY
NICELY JUST GO BACK TO WHATEVER
LIFE YOU WANTED TO HAVE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME ON
TELEVISION, TO BE AS OUT THERE
ON THIS AS YOU HAVE BEEN.
BUT YOU ARE.
HOW COME?

Elizabeth says I HAD DONE
A LOT OF EDUCATIONAL WORK UP
UNTIL I THINK ABOUT 2006, AND AT
THAT POINT I JUST REALLY NEEDED
TO MOVE FORWARD WITH MY LIFE AND
PUT THE PAST IN THE PAST.
AND NOW THE POLITICAL
ENVIRONMENT HAS CHANGED SO
RADICALLY, AND I LOOK AT THE
CHILDREN WHO ARE IN MY LIFE NOW
AND WHAT SORT OF WORLD I WANT
THEM TO INHERIT WHEN THEY GROW
UP AND I KNOW WHAT I DON'T WANT
IN, I DON'T WANT NEO-NAZIS, I
DON'T WANT RACISM, I DON'T WANT
HATE.
I FEEL A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY
THAT I HAVE A STORY THAT I CAN
SHARE, AND SO IT IS UP TO ME TO
SHARE IT AND TRY TO CREATE SOME GOOD.

The caption changes to "Producer: Eric Bombicino, @ebombicino."

Steve says WE'RE GLAD BOTH OF
YOU CAME INTO TVO TONIGHT TO
SHARE YOUR UNIQUE STORY.
ELIZABETH MOORE, BERNIE FARBER,
THANKS SO MUCH TO BOTH OF YOU.

Both guests say THANK YOU.

Watch: Leaving Hate Behind