Transcript: A Premier Conversation | Sep 05, 2017

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue gray suit, blue shirt, and polka dotted red tie.

A caption on screen reads @spaikin, @theagenda."

The caption changes to "A Premier Conversation."

Steve says THIS IS A VERY
INTERESTING TIME TO BE KATHLEEN
WYNNE.
ON THE ONE HAND, YOUR POLITICAL
ADVERSARIES DELIGHT IN REMINDING
YOU THAT YOU'RE THE MOST
UNPOPULAR PREMIER IN THE ENTIRE
COUNTRY.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THE ONTARIO
LIBERALS ARE REASONABLY
COMPETITIVE IN THE POLLS,
CERTAINLY NOT AS HIGH AS THEY'D
LIKE, BUT ALSO HARDLY AS OUT OF
IT AS THE PARTY'S CRITICS WOULD
WISH.
IT ALL MAKES FOR A FASCINATING
T MINUS 9 MONTHS AND 2 DAYS
UNTIL THE NEXT PROVINCIAL
ELECTION, AND HERE TO DISCUSS IT
ALL IS THE 25th PREMIER OF THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, KATHLEEN
WYNNE.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK IN THAT
CHAIR.

Wynne is in her sixties, with short wavy blond hair and she wears glasses, a blue top, a pale blue jacket and a pearl necklace.

Wynne says THANK YOU, STEVE.
GOOD TO BE HERE.

Steve says LET'S DO A LITTLE
SETUP BEFORE WE START.
OUR TRADITION ON THIS PROGRAM IS
TO START A LITTLE BIT POLICY AND
A BIT POLITICS, AND WE WILL
FOLLOW THAT TRADITION HERE
TONIGHT.
SECONDLY, AND THIS IS MORE A
REMINDER TO OUR VIEWERS, MY JOB
IS REALLY NOT TO ATTACK THE
PREMIER, MY JOB IS TO REALLY GET
A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHY
HER GOVERNMENT MAKES THE
DECISIONS THAT IT HAS MADE.
SO WITH THAT HAVING BEEN SAID,
GOOD TO GO?

The caption changes to "A Premier Conversation. Raising the floor."

Wynne says GOOD TO GO.

Steve says I WANT TO START WITH
THE ECONOMY-LABOUR RELATIONS
CHALLENGES YOU HAVE BROUGHT IN.
OVER THE SUMMER THAT HAS COME IN
AND IN CASE PEOPLE MISSED THE
DEVELOPMENTS LET'S TALK ABOUT IT
NOW.
IT WAS ONLY A FEW YEARS AGO YOU
DECIDED TO PUT A NEW PROCESS IN
PLACE TO DECIDE WHAT THE NEW
MINIMUM WAGE IN ONTARIO WOULD
BE, A DEPOLITICIZED VERSION, SO
YOU WON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH
EVERY YEAR WHAT THE LEVEL WAS
GOING TO BE.
AND JUST A FEW YEARS INTO THAT
SUPPOSEDLY NEW PERMANENT
SOLUTION, YOU HAVE DECIDED TO
SORT OF TEAR THAT SOLUTION UP
AND CREATE A MINIMUM WAGE THAT
WILL GO TO 15 DOLLARS BY 2019.
FIRST QUESTION: WHY?
Wynne says WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS: FIRST
OF ALL, WHEN WE PUT IN PLACE
THAT PROCESS THAT TIED INCREASES
TO THE MINIMUM WAGE TO THE COST
OF LIVING, TO INFLATION, WE
DIDN'T DO A BUMP-UP.
SO AT THE TIME THAT... A FEW
YEARS AGO, WHEN WE SAID WE WERE
GOING TO DO THIS, WE DIDN'T DO
THAT SORT OF CATCH-UP INCREASE
THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CALLED ON
US TO DO, BUT WE FELT THAT THE
ECONOMY AT THAT POINT REALLY
WASN'T IN ANY SHAPE TO DO THAT.
WE DID BUILD IN TO THE
LEGISLATION A REVIEW PERIOD, SO
WE SAID AFTER 5 YEARS WE NEED TO
REVIEW THIS AND SEE IF THERE ARE
CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE.
THE SITUATION WE'RE IN NOW,
STEVE, IS THAT THE ECONOMY IS
DOING VERY WELL.
ONTARIO IS DOING VERY WELL.
WE'RE OUTSTRIPPING GROWTH ACROSS
THE COUNTRY AND G-7 COUNTRIES
AND SO THIS IS THE TIME THAT WE
CAN LOOK AND SAY, YOU KNOW, EVEN
THOUGH THE PROVINCE IS DOING
VERY WELL, THERE ARE MANY, MANY,
MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SHARING
IN THAT, ARE NOT FEELING THE
BENEFIT OF THAT.

Steve says DO THEY TEND TO BE
MINIMUM WAGE EARNERS?

Wynne says THEY TEND TO BE WIN WAGE
EARNERS, IN DIFFERENT REGIONS OF
THE PROVINCE, DIFFERENT SECTORS.
BUT MINIMUM WAGE IS ONLY PART OF
THE CHANGE THAT WE'RE MAKING BUT
WE'RE MAKING THESE CHANGES NOW
BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IS IN GOOD
SHAPE AND WE BELIEVE THAT IF
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FAIR
ONTARIO, WHICH I THINK
GOVERNMENT EXISTS TO DO, IS TO
MAKE OUR SOCIETY, OUR ECONOMY AS
FAIR AS POSSIBLE, PROVIDE AS
MUCH OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE,
THEN WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE FALLING
BEHIND AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
ARE MOVING AHEAD VERY QUICKLY.
WE NEED TO CLOSE THAT GAP.

Steve says DID YOU DO AN
ECONOMIC ANALYSIS WHICH, AT THE
END OF THE DAY, TOLD YOU, YES,
15 DOLLARS IS THE RIGHT AMOUNT FOR THIS
TIME FOR THE STATE OF OUR
ECONOMY?

Wynne says WE
HAVE HAD ADVICE FROM MANY
ECONOMISTS, AND THERE ARE
ECONOMISTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS
ISSUE, STEVE.
THERE ARE REPORTS THAT WILL SAY
THAT THIS IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT
TIME, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE
NEED TO DO, BUT THAT MONEY...
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE EARNING 15 DOLLARS AN
HOUR ARE STILL NOT GOING TO BE
WEALTHY PEOPLE.
THAT MONEY GOES BACK INTO THE
ECONOMY.
THAT MONEY GETS SPENT.
AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL
SAY, THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT THING
TO DO, THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE
DONE, THAT IT SHOULD BE OVER A
LONGER PERIOD OF TIME, THAT ALL
MANNER OF OTHER THINGS THAT WE
SHOULD BE DOING, BUT REALITY
IS... WE HAVE, WE HAVE.
BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT EVEN
THOUGH 15 DOLLARS... AND THERE ARE LOTS
OF VOICES THAT WILL SAY IT'S NOT
HIGH ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU
ACTUALLY SHOULD BE GOING HIGHER,
WE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE
RIGHT TIME TO MAKE THIS MOVE.

Steve says THERE HAVE BEEN
OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT HAVE
SORT OF MADE A GEOGRAPHIC BASIS
FOR DOING THIS.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN NEW YORK
CITY, MAYBE YOU NEED 15 DOLLARS AN HOUR
RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT'S SO
EXPENSIVE, BUT IN UPSTATE NEW
YORK, MAYBE NOT.
DID YOU CONSIDER HAVING A
SLIDING SCALE BASED ON
GEOGRAPHY?

Wynne says YOU
KNOW, WE LOOKED AT THAT, AND
I'VE LOOKED AT THAT AT VARIOUS
TIMES IN MY POLITICAL CAREER ON
VARIOUS ISSUES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AS EXPENSIVE
TO LIVE IN THUNDER BAY AS IT IS
TO LIVE IN TORONTO.
I ACTUALLY HAVE NEVER FOUND AN
ANALYSIS THAT BREAKS DOWN ALL
THE PIECES BECAUSE I CAN TELL
YOU SOMEONE LIVING IN THUNDER
BAY IS PAYING MORE FOR SOME
THINGS THAN OTHERS.
MAYBE NOT HOUSING, BUT
TRANSPORTATION.

Steve says FOOD AND GAS?

Wynne says EXACTLY.
SO I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THIS IS
A POLICY THAT NEEDS TO APPLY
PROVINCE-WIDE.
AND JUST ON YOUR POINT ABOUT
OTHER JURISDICTIONS, WE'RE
COMPETING WITH THOSE
JURISDICTIONS.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE ACTUALLY
COMPETING WITH NEW YORK.
WE'RE COMPETING WITH
SAN FRANCISCO AND SEATTLE.
AND THOSE ARE PLACES THAT ARE
MOVING THERE.
WE'RE COMPETING WITH ALBERTA FOR
TALENT, AND ALBERTA IS MOVING
THERE BY THE END OF 2018 TO 15 DOLLARS
AN HOUR.

Steve says NOT TO BE OVERLY
OVERLY DRAMATIC ABOUT THIS BUT YOU KNOW
SOME BUSINESSES HAVE SCREAMED
BLOODY MURDER ABOUT THIS.

Wynne says SOME BUSINESSES.

Steve says SOME BUSINESSES.

Wynne says I'VE BEEN TRAVELLING THE
PROVINCE ALL SUMMER AND, YES,
THERE ARE CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE
THAT HAVE RALLIED THEIR MEMBERS,
AND I GET THAT.
THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE.
AND THEY ARE MAKING THE CASE
THAT WE SHOULD DELAY THIS OR WE
SHOULDN'T DO IT, AND I
UNDERSTAND THAT AND I'LL COME
BACK TO THAT IN A SECOND.
BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, STEVE, I
HAVE TALKED TO MANY, MANY
BUSINESS PEOPLE, EVEN PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR SOME
TIME OR WHO ARE STARTING UP
BUSINESSES.
I HAD A YOUNG COUPLE COME UP TO
ME IN THE PARK, I WAS WITH MY
GRANDKIDS JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS
AGO, AND THEY CAME UP TO ME,
THEY WERE YOUNG, RELATIVE
NEWCOMERS, THEY'RE STARTING
THEIR OWN BUSINESS, AND THEY
SAID, YOU KNOW, WE THINK WHAT
YOU'RE DOING IS EXACTLY THE
RIGHT THING AND THEY SAID
BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN THERE AND WE
HAVE FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS
WHO HAVE BEEN THERE, AND WE KNOW
THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO
LOOK AFTER THEMSELVES.
SO I JUST... I JUST PUT THAT
CAUTIONARY NOTE THERE IN TERMS
OF THE SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER
BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY, MANY,
MANY BUSINESSES WHO ARE ALREADY
PAYING MORE THAN THE MINIMUM
WAGE, AND WHAT I SAID TO THEM
IS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T ABOUT
INCREASING THE GAP.
THIS IS ABOUT CATCHING UP.
SO IF YOU'RE ALREADY PAYING MORE
THAN MINIMUM WAGE, THAT'S GREAT.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE WE WANT
EVERYBODY TO BE.

Steve says DO YOU EVER FEEL AN
OBLIGATION TO BUSINESSES TO CUT
THEIR TAXES NOW SO THEY CAN
ADAPT TO THIS HIGHER COST OF
DOING BUSINESS?

Wynne says HERE'S WHAT I FEEL I HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO DO, JUST TO COME
BACK TO THAT.
I AM VERY SYMPATHETIC TO
BUSINESS.
WE HAVE WORKED VERY HARD IN THIS
PROVINCE TO SUPPORT BUSINESS, TO
INVEST IN BUSINESS, TO MAKE SURE
THERE ARE FUNDS TO HELP
BUSINESSES GROW...

Steve says SOME PEOPLE THINK
YOU'VE DONE TOO MUCH.
YOU'VE GIVEN LEFT, RIGHT, AND
CENTRE GIVING SUBSIDIES TO
BUSINESSES THAT DON'T NEED IT.

Wynne says THERE'S THE CONUNDRUM, RIGHT?
WE'VE DONE A LOT TO HELP
BUSINESSES GROW AND THAT'S
HAPPENING.
THAT'S PART OF THE REASON THE
ECONOMY IS DOING AS WELL AS IT
IS.
BUT I DO FEEL AN OBLIGATION TO
LOOK AT THOSE VERY SMALL
BUSINESSES THAT ARE GOING TO
NEED HELP THROUGH THE
TRANSITION.
HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY
DON'T GO UNDER IF THEY'VE GOT
ONE, TWO, THREE OR FOUR
EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE
MAKE SURE WE PUT SOME SUPPORTS
IN PLACE FOR THEM.
EXACTLY WHAT THOSE SUPPORTS WILL
BE, IT'S NOT CLEAR...

Steve says HERE'S AN IDEA,
BECAUSE APPARENTLY YOU PROMISED
TO CUT THE CORPORATE TAX RATE
FROM 11.5 TO 10 percent ONCE THE BUDGET
WAS BALANCED.
YOU PRESENTED A BUDGET THAT IS
BALANCED.
CAN WE NOW ASSUME THIS IS GOING
TO BE IN NEXT SPRING'S BUDGET?

Wynne says HERE'S THE THING, STEVE.
THOSE BUSINESSES I'M TALKING
ABOUT, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO
BENEFIT FROM THAT.
MOST OF THEM ARE SMALL ENOUGH
THEY'RE NOT REALLY PAYING MUCH
TAX.
WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE
BUSINESSES THAT REALLY NEED
HELP.
HERE'S AN IDEA THAT SOME
BUSINESSES HAVE FLOATED WITH ME:
THEY'RE SAYING THAT WHEN THEY
BRING IN A NEW EMPLOYEE, THEY
HAVE TO TRAIN THAT EMPLOYEE UP.
SO IF THEY HAVE TO EXPEND
TRAINING DOLLARS OR, YOU KNOW,
DOUBLE UP SHIFTS OR WHATEVER,
THAT COSTS THEM, AND SO THEY'RE
SAYING, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A WAY
TO HAVE SOME SORT OF
TRANSITIONAL SUPPORT AROUND THE
TRAINING THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM
TO GET THROUGH?
AGRICULTURAL WORKERS, FARMERS
HAVE SAID TO ME, YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE SEASONAL WORKERS, WE PAY
THEM ROOM AND BOARD, AND SO CAN
YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE
COMPENSATION?
SO WE'RE DOING THAT.

Steve says WHEN DO YOU THINK
YOU'LL HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THOSE
FOLKS?

Wynne says MID-SEPTEMBER, THE FALL, WHEN
WE'RE LOOKING AT...

Steve says SOON.

Wynne says YEAH.
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE
SMALL... OUR MINISTER
RESPONSIBLE FOR SMALL BUSINESS,
JEFF LEAL, HAS BEEN TALKING TO
FOLKS AROUND THE PROVINCE.
WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT
THAT.

Steve says FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE
BEEN AWAY FOR THE SUMMER AND
DON'T KNOW THIS, THE CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE HAS PUT THIS IN THE
CROSSHAIRS BECAUSE THEY DON'T
LIKE THE FACT THEY'RE LOOKING AT
18 percent PAY INCREASES.
SHELDON, PUT THIS GRAPHIC UP, IF
YOU WOULD.
THEY SAY THE NEW HIGHER MINIMUM
WAGE WILL PUT 185,000 JOBS AT
RISK, THAT WOMEN AND YOUNG
PEOPLE WILL BE THE MOST
VULNERABLE, AND BUSINESSES WILL
TAKE A 23 BILLION DOLLAR HIT OVER THE
NEXT TWO YEARS.

A slate appears that reads "Ripple Effects. Risks 185,000 jobs. Impacts women and young people. Cost businesses 23 billion in two years. Canadian Centre for Economic Analysis (August 14, 2017)."

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEIR
NUMBERS?

Wynne says WELL, AS I SAID, STEVE, THERE
ARE ECONOMISTS WHO WILL BUY INTO
THAT ARGUMENT, BUT THERE ARE
ALSO MANY ECONOMISTS WHO SAY,
ACTUALLY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO
SEE A DISCERNIBLE CHANGE, IT'S
NOT GOING TO BE THAT KIND OF
IMPACT, AND IN FACT WHAT WE
LOOK... WHEN WE LOOK TO OTHER
JURISDICTIONS, WE SEE JOB
INCREASE, WE SEE ACTUALLY THAT
THE ECONOMY DOES BETTER BECAUSE
PEOPLE RETAIN THEIR JOBS LONGER,
PEOPLE STAY IN THEIR JOBS,
PEOPLE HAVE MORE MONEY TO PUT
INTO THE ECONOMY, AND
FUNDAMENTALLY, STEVE, IN A
PROVINCE AS WEALTHY AS ONTARIO,
IF WE CAN'T ALLOW PEOPLE WHO ARE
WORKING FULL TIME TO BE ABLE TO
LOOK AFTER THEMSELVES OR THEIR
KIDS... I MEAN, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE
WORKING AT MINIMUM WAGE JOBS
THAT ARE GOING TO THE FOOD BANK.
IT'S JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Steve says DO YOU WORRY,
THOUGH, THAT SOME EMPLOYERS WILL
NOW NOT HIRE PEOPLE THEY MIGHT
OTHERWISE HAVE HIRED BECAUSE THE
COST OF HIRING THEM JUST SIMPLY
CAN'T BE JUSTIFIED?

Wynne says WELL, AND THAT'S WHERE... THAT'S
WHERE I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK
AT, WHAT ARE THE SUPPORTS THAT
NEED TO BE IN PLACE?
BECAUSE WE WANT BUSINESSES TO
GROW.
SO SMALL BUSINESSES THAT ARE
CHALLENGED WITH HIRING SOMEBODY
NEW, THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE
HAVE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION
ABOUT TRAINING DOLLARS, HOW DO
WE... HOW DO WE SUPPORT
BUSINESSES AS THEY GO THROUGH
THIS TRANSITION?
WE'RE GOING TO BRING IN SOME
PROPOSALS, AND AS I SAY, I'M
VERY CONCERNED THAT WE
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW,
FOR ME, THE ISSUE IS THAT IF WE
ARE GOING TO HAVE A FAIR
PROVINCE, IF PEOPLE ARE...
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AFTER
THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES,
IF WE'RE GOING TO TREAT PEOPLE
FAIRLY, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE
THEY CAN LOOK AFTER THEMSELVES.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE
EARNING A LIVING WAGE.

The caption changes to "A Premier Conversation. Electric Problems."

Steve says CHAPTER 2,
ELECTRICITY.
YOU OBVIOUSLY CHANGED TACK
PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY NOT TOO
LONG AGO, DECIDED TO, THROUGH A
NUMBER OF DIFFERENT MECHANISMS,
LOWER THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY
BY ABOUT 25 percent ON AVERAGE FOR THE
PEOPLE IN THIS PROVINCE.
SO FAR IN YOUR VIEW WHAT'S BEEN
THE VERDICT?

Wynne says SO LET ME JUST STEP BACK BECAUSE IT
REALLY WASN'T A CHANGE IN
DIRECTION.
BECAUSE WE HAD... WE HAD ALREADY
STARTED TO WORK TO TAKE COSTS
OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
WE PUT IN PLACE THE ONTARIO
ELECTRICITY SUPPORT PROGRAM THAT
WAS TO HELP PEOPLE ON LOW
INCOME.
SO WE HAD ALREADY DONE A NUMBER
OF THINGS THAT...

Steve says BUT CLEARLY NOT
ENOUGH BY YOUR OWN JUDGMENT.

Wynne says WELL... BUT WE WERE ON THAT
TRAJECTORY.
THAT'S THE ONLY POINT I'M
MAKING, IS THAT WE HAD ALREADY
STARTED TO MAKE CHANGES.
WE RENEGOTIATED THE SAMSUNG
DEAL, FOR EXAMPLE, AND TOOK
COSTS OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
BUT NOT ENOUGH.
PEOPLE WERE STILL REALLY HURTING
FROM THEIR ELECTRICITY BILLS
ACROSS THE PROVINCE.
SO PEOPLE IN URBAN CENTRES,
PEOPLE IN RURAL CENTRES, AND SO
WE LOOKED AT WHAT WE COULD DO
THAT WOULD EASE THOSE COSTS.
THAT 23 TO 28 PERCENT REDUCTION
ACROSS THE PROVINCE IS NOW IN
PLACE, AND I WAS JUST UP IN THE
NORTH, AND ON TOP OF THAT
25 PERCENT ON AVERAGE, IN MORE
RURAL AND REMOTE AREAS, PEOPLE
ARE SEEING UP TO A 40 TO
50 PERCENT REDUCTION BECAUSE THE
DISTRIBUTION CHARGES IN THOSE
PARTS OF THE PROVINCE WERE
EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER THAN IN
OTHER PARTS OF THE PROVINCE.
SO I HAD ONE GUY COME UP TO ME,
HE'S HAD A 200 DOLLAR REDUCTION ON HIS
ELECTRICITY BILL.

Steve says EVERY MONTH?

Wynne says YEAH.

Steve says EVERY MONTH?

Wynne says EVERY MONTH.
SO THERE ARE SUBSTANTIAL
REDUCTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE SEEN
AND IT WILL MAKE A HUGE
DIFFERENCE TO PEOPLE'S ABILITY
TO LOOK AFTER THEMSELVES.

Steve says HAS THIS GONE AWAY
AS A POLITICAL ISSUE FROM YOUR
PLATE?

Wynne says WELL, YOU KNOW, ELECTRICITY IN
ONTARIO IS ALWAYS... IT'S GOING
TO CONTINUE TO BE A CONCERN FOR
GOVERNMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
WE'VE GOT A LOT GOING ON IN THE
PROVINCE AND WE'RE JUST PUTTING
TOGETHER A LONG-TERM ENERGY PLAN
AND WE'RE LOOKING TO WHAT NEW
TECHNOLOGIES AND INNOVATION WE
CAN BRING IN.
THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF THINGS
HAPPENING IN THE CLEAN ENERGY
FIELD.
STORAGE, FOR EXAMPLE.

Steve says HAVE YOU MADE THE
DECISION TO REDO PICKERING?

Wynne says THAT... YEAH, THAT THE
REFURBISHMENT.
YEAH.
THAT'S ON THE BOOKS.
WE'RE DOING THAT, YEAH.

Steve says KEEPING IT ALIVE FOR
ANOTHER 20 YEARS BEYOND...

Wynne says I
THINK IT'S AN EXTENSION OF 4
YEARS, ACTUALLY.
BUT DARLINGTON...

Steve says DARLINGTON I KNOW
YOU'RE IN FOR 12.5 BILLION DOLLARS ON
DARLINGTON.

Wynne says BECAUSE NUCLEAR IS GOING TO
CONTINUE TO BE PART OF OUR BASE
LOAD, STEVE.
THAT IS A GIVEN.
YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE KEEP THOSE PLANTS IN
NUMBER ONE CONDITION, OBVIOUSLY.

Steve says I KNOW YOU HAVE USED
THIS LINE OFTEN IN THE PAST AND
I'M SURE YOU FEEL IT IN THE
HEART WHEN YOU SAY IT.
YOU KNOW, YOU SAID I NEED TO BE
ABLE TO TELL MY GRANDCHILDREN,
WHEN IT WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO
MAKE THE DECISIONS THAT WILL BE
SIGNIFICANT GOING DECADES DOWN
THE ROAD, I DIDN'T SIT IDLY BY,
I DID THEM EVEN THOUGH I HAD TO
TAKE A HIT IN POPULARITY.
THE DECISIONS YOU HAVE MADE IN
ORDER TO MAKE ELECTRICITY MORE
AFFORDABLE FOR THIS GENERATION,
THESE ASSETS EXIST INTO THE
FUTURE, NOT JUST TODAY, BUT YOU
DO KNOW BY MAKING THOSE
DECISIONS YOU ARE SADDLING YOUR
GRANDCHILDREN'S GENERATION WHICH
WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE MUCH
SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER ENERGY
PRICES DOWN THE ROAD WHEN THEY
START EARNING AND PAYING, ETC.,
ETC.
FAIR TO SAY?

Wynne says WELL, IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT
WE'RE ASKING THE NEXT COUPLE OF
GENERATIONS TO PAY SOMETHING
TOWARDS THESE ASSETS.
IT'S ALSO FAIR TO SAY, STEVE...
AND THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN
COMMENT... THAT GOVERNMENT AFTER
GOVERNMENT DID NOT MAKE THE
INVESTMENTS THAT NEEDED TO BE
MADE, AND SO WE LANDED WITH A
DEGRADED ELECTRICITY SYSTEM THAT
NEEDED TO BE UPGRADED.
YOU KNOW, THOUSANDS OF
KILOMETRES OF LINE HAD BEEN
UPGRADED.
WE DON'T HAVE BROWNOUTS AND
BLACKOUTS IN THE SAME WAY WE
DID.

Steve says OR SMOG DAYS.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, tvo.org, Facebook, Youtube, Periscope and Instagram."

Wynne says OR
CLEAN AIR.
WE DON'T HAVE SMOG DAYS BECAUSE
WE SHUT DOWN THE COAL PLANTS.
SO THE LEGACY OF PREVIOUS
GOVERNMENTS WAS THAT WE HAD A
SYSTEM THAT HAD TO BE... THAT
HAD TO BE REBUILT.
SO WE'VE DONE THAT REBUILDING.
SO I THINK IT IS FAIR... YOU
KNOW, I DO... I DO SAY THAT I'M
COMFORTABLE SAYING TO OLIVIA AND
CLAIRE AND HUGH THAT THEY'RE
GOING TO BE BENEFITING FROM AN
ASSET THAT WE'VE BUILT AS A
GENERATION AND, YOU KNOW, IT
MEANS THAT THEIR MOM AND DAD CAN
DO MORE THINGS WITH THEM NOW AND
THAT THEY'LL HAVE TO PAY A
LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THOSE ASSETS
LATER.
I THINK THAT'S FAIR.
AND THAT'S IN FACT PROBABLY WHAT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE SPREAD
THOSE COSTS OUT IN THE FIRST
PLACE.
BUT WE'RE DOING IT NOW.

Steve says WE ARE WHERE WE ARE.
HYDRO ONE.
THEY RECENTLY BOUGHT AN AMERICAN
ELECTRICITY COMPANY CALLED
AVISTA.
YOU REFERENCED COAL.
THEY OWN A COAL PLANT IN THE
UNITED STATES.
I WONDER WHETHER YOU HAD TO
GREEN LIGHT THAT PURCHASE?

Wynne says I
CERTAINLY KNEW ABOUT IT.
IT WAS A DECISION THAT WAS MADE
BY HYDRO ONE.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE HAD
DECISION-MAKING AUTHORITY OVER.
BUT LET ME JUST SAY THAT AS SOON
AS I KNEW ABOUT IT, I HAD A
CONVERSATION WITH THE OFFICIALS
AT HYDRO ONE, AND WHAT I KNOW IS
THAT THIS PLANT HAS ABOUT A
10 PERCENT INTEREST IN A COAL
PLANT, THAT THEY WERE INTERESTED
IN A PROGRESSIVE COMPANY IN A
PROGRESSIVE JURISDICTION, AND AS
I SAID TO MEDIA REPORTERS WHEN
THEY'VE ASKED ME, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW
JURISDICTIONS IN NORTH AMERICA
THAT HAS SHUT DOWN ALL OF OUR
COAL PLANTS.
I MEAN WE'RE IN A VERY, VERY
UNIQUE POSITION IN TERMS OF THE
REST OF NORTH AMERICA...

Steve says DID YOU TELL THEM TO
DO THAT?

Wynne says NO,
NO.
BUT I THINK THAT WE HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO BE AN INFLUENCE
IN PLACES LIKE... ON COMPANIES
LIKE THIS.
SO I THINK THIS IS... I THINK
THIS IS A GOOD THING.
THIS IS A COMPANY THAT HAS GOT A
PORTFOLIO OF PRETTY RENEWABLE
CLEAN ENERGY.
THERE'S A SMALL PIECE THAT IS
COAL.
WOULD IT BE BETTER IF THERE WERE
NO COAL PLANTS?
ABSOLUTELY.
BUT THE FACT IS THAT THERE ARE
COAL PLANTS IN JURISDICTIONS ALL
OVER NORTH AMERICA.

Steve says SURE.
GIVEN THAT YOU'RE NOT THE
MAJORITY OWNER OF HYDRO ONE
ANYMORE, ARE YOU ALLOWED TO GO
TO HYDRO ONE AND SAY TO THEM,
THIS IS REALLY OFF-BRAND FOR ME,
FOR MY GOVERNMENT, FOR MY PARTY?
GET RID OF IT?

Wynne says THEY MADE A BUSINESS DECISION,
STEVE, AND I WOULDN'T DO THAT.
ONE OF THE WAYS IN WHICH HYDRO
ONE IS GOING TO BE A BETTER
COMPANY THAN IT WAS IS THEY'RE
GOING TO MAKE DECISIONS... THEY
KNOW OUR VALUE SYSTEM.
THEY KNOW WHAT WE STAND FOR IN
THIS PROVINCE.
THEY WERE VERY CLEAR WHEN I WENT
TO THEM AND SAID, WHAT ABOUT
THIS, GUYS?
THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, HERE IT IS.
IT'S A PROGRESSIVE COMPANY.
IT'S A 10 percent SHARE.
THEY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THE
CHALLENGE WOULD BE.
BUT I'M COMFORTABLE THAT, AS I
SAY, WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AS
A JURISDICTION THAT HAS SHUT OUR
COAL PLANTS TO ACTUALLY BE AN
INFLUENCE.
THAT'S WHAT I FOUND WHEN I WAS
IN PARIS, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WENT
TO THE CLIMATE CHANGE
CONFERENCE.
MY EXPERIENCE OF THAT WAS THAT
JURISDICTIONS THAT ARE PUMPING
COAL CAME TO US AND SAID, HOW
DID YOU DO THIS?
WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE?
SO WE'RE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT
THAT.
IT'S ONE PLANET, STEVE.
WE'VE GOT TO WORK TOGETHER TO
MAKE SURE THAT GHGs ARE
REDUCED AND PART OF THAT IS
BEING AN INFLUENCE ON THAT
FRONT.

The caption changes to "A Premier Conversation. Being Kathleen Wynne."

Steve says CHAPTER 3.
WE'RE CALLING THIS CHAPTER
"BEING KATHLEEN WYNNE."

Wynne says THAT JUST REALLY SOUNDS OMINOUS.

A bar chart shows the results of a popularity poll among the premiers with the title "Premier Approval. June 2017." In final position, with 0.3 percent appears Premier Wynne.

Steve says LET'S SHOW YOU A
GRAPHIC.
THIS IS PROBABLY YOUR LEAST
FAVOURITE GRAPHIC OF ALL OF THE
GRAPHICS PEOPLE SHOW ABOUT YOU.
THE ANGUS REID INSTITUTE, THEY
LOVE TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS
PUBLIC OPINION POLLING, AND THEY
DO... EVERY FEW MONTHS THEY SAY
HOW ARE THE PREMIERS IN THIS
COUNTRY DOING AND THERE YOU ARE,
NUMBER 10 OUT OF 10.

Wynne says THERE I AM.

Steve says WITH ABOUT AS MANY
PEOPLE BELIEVING AS ELVIS IS
ALIVE WHO LIKE THE JOB THAT
KATHLEEN WYNNE IS DOING.
I DON'T MEAN TO BE A SMART ALEC.
BUT THAT IS A LOW NUMBER,
PREMIER.
YOU'LL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.
WHAT'S IT LIKE WAKING UP EVERY
DAY KNOWING YOU'RE THE LEAST
POPULAR PREMIER IN THE COUNTRY?

Wynne says THAT'S NOT MY FIRST THOUGHT,
STEVE.
MY FIRST THOUGHT IS: WHAT'S ON
OUR AGENDA TODAY?
WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE NEED
TO DO TO MAKE SURE WE MAKE GOOD
DECISIONS?
THAT IS HONESTLY WHAT I THINK
ABOUT.
I GET UP IN THE MORNING, I READ
THE NEWSPAPER, I SEE, YOU KNOW,
HOW THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING
ARE BEING INTERPRETED AND I GET
READY TO GO OUT AND HAVE MY RUN
AND CLEAR MY MIND AND THEN COME
IN AND DO MY JOB.

Steve says YOU THINK IT'S ALL
FAKE NEWS?

Wynne says NO,
NO.
I DON'T THINK IT'S FAKE NEWS.
YOU KNOW, I AM PERFECTLY...
PERFECTLY WILLING TO ACCEPT THE
NUMBERS THAT WE SEE.
WHAT WE ALSO SEE, YOU KNOW, THE
OTHER CHART, IS THAT PEOPLE
ARE... THEY'RE IMPRESSED WITH
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE
DOING, IF NOT ALL OF THEM, YOU
KNOW?
PEOPLE ARE HAPPY THAT WE'RE
RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE.
PEOPLE ARE HAPPY THAT WE'VE
MOVED ON HYDRO.
I DON'T MEAN EVERYBODY'S HAPPY.
I JUST MEAN THAT THERE ARE A LOT
OF PEOPLE WHO LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE
DOING AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS.
WHETHER THEY LIKE ME OR NOT, YOU
KNOW?
AND I SAID TO YOU BEFORE, IT'S
NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST, YOU
KNOW?
IT'S NOT ABOUT MY PERSONAL
POPULARITY.
IT'S NOT WHY I GOT INTO
POLITICS.

Steve says I HEAR YOU.
BUT GOOD POLICY... THEY ALWAYS
SAY GOOD POLICY IS GOOD
POLITICS.
IF YOU THINK YOU'RE BRINGING IN
GOOD POLICY, THEN PRESUMABLY THE
NUMBERS FOLLOW.
THE NUMBERS ARE NOT FOLLOWING.
AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU HAVE
ANY THEORIES AS TO WHY THAT IS.

Wynne says YOU
MEAN NOT MY PERSONAL... ARE
FOLLOWING.
THAT'S UP TO YOU AND THE OTHER
PUNDITS YOU TALK TO.

Steve says I'M NOT A PUNDIT.
I JUST ASK QUESTIONS.

Wynne says AGAIN, I HAVE TO LOOK TO THE
PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERPRETING MY
BEHAVIOUR.
I'M DOING MY VERY BEST EVERY
SINGLE DAY TO MAKE DECISIONS
THAT ARE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF
THIS PROVINCE AND TO MAKE IT A
PLACE THAT'S FAIR AND PROVIDES
OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE.
THAT'S WHAT FREE TUITION IS
ABOUT FOR KIDS, GOING TO COLLEGE
AND UNIVERSITY; THAT'S WHAT MORE
CHILD CARE SPACES IS ABOUT;
THAT'S WHAT PREPRESCRIPTION
MEDICATION IS ABOUT.
THE PROVINCE IS DOING WELL AND
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
EVERYBODY SHARES IN THAT.

Steve says JUST FOR THE RECORD,
THAT'S FREE PRESCRIPTION
MEDICATION...

Wynne says FOR
KIDS.

Steve says THOSE 25 AND UNDER.

Wynne says 25
AND UNDER STARTING IN JANUARY.
ZERO UNTIL THEIR 25TH BIRTHDAY,
YEAH.

Steve says LET ME THROW A FEW
THEORIES OUT THERE.
ONE OF THE THEORIES... AND I
TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE ALL THE
TIME BECAUSE I WANT TO GET...
YOU KNOW, THAT NUMBER SEEMS
AWFULLY LOW.
I MEAN, MAYBE YOU DON'T GET UP
EVERY DAY THINKING ABOUT THE
FACT THAT YOU'RE THE LEAST
POPULAR PREMIER IN THE COUNTRY,
BUT I IMAGINE IF AND WHEN YOU DO
THINK ABOUT IT, YOU THINK, GOD,
THAT'S A LOW NUMBER.
I WONDER IF PART OF THE
EXPLANATION IS, WE'RE
DISAPPOINTED NEW BECAUSE YOU'RE
NOT WHO WE THOUGHT YOU WERE.
WE THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO BE
THIS DIFFERENT PERSON FROM ALL
OF YOUR PREDECESSORS, AND YET
YOU'VE TURNED INTO BEING JUST
ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE
POLITICIANS.
I HEAR THAT FROM PEOPLE.
DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANYTHING TO
THAT?

Wynne says AGAIN, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY,
WELL, WHAT WAS IT THAT PEOPLE
WERE LOOKING FOR TO START OUT
WITH?
WHAT WAS THE EXPECTATION OF ME
AS A PERSON, AS A POLITICIAN, AS
A WOMAN?
LIKE, WHAT WAS...

Steve says DIFFERENT FROM
EVERYTHING.
DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS 24.

Wynne says BUT
DIFFERENT IN WHAT WAY?
AGAIN, I CAN'T... I CAN'T SPEAK
FOR YOU, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR YOUR
NEIGHBOURS, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR
THE PEOPLE IN KENORA OR... YOU
KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE'S
EXPECTATIONS OF ME WERE.
WHAT I KNOW IS, I SAID WHAT I
WAS GOING TO DO AND I HAVE DONE
IT, YOU KNOW, AND I'VE BEEN
DOING IT.
I SAID I WAS GOING TO BUILD
INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE'RE BUILDING ROADS AND BRIDGES
AND HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS.
I SAID WE WERE GOING TO ACT ON
RETIREMENT SECURITY.
WE'VE DONE THAT.
I SAID WE WERE GOING TO SUPPORT
BUSINESS.
THE ECONOMY'S GROWING.
SO I FOLLOWED THROUGH ON THE
THINGS THAT I SAID I WAS GOING
TO DO.

Steve says THERE'S ALWAYS THE
UNANTICIPATED SURPRISES.
I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO THIS
BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING
TO SAY, IT'S BEFORE THE COURTS
AND I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT
IT.
BUT YOU'RE ABOUT TO GO TESTIFY
IN... IS IT TOO STRONG TO CALL
IT A CORRUPTION TRIAL?
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
YOU'RE ABOUT TO TESTIFY IN A
PUBLIC TRIAL THAT, YOU KNOW,
CLEARLY WAS NOT ONE OF THE
REASONS WHY YOU DECIDED TO RUN
FOR PUBLIC LIFE.

Wynne says AND
I WILL TESTIFY AND I'VE BEEN
VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED
IN THAT AND WE'LL LET THAT PLAY
OUT IN THE COURTS.
BUT, SURE.
I MEAN, I AM SURE THERE ARE
THINGS THAT HAVE MADE PEOPLE
FEEL, I DIDN'T THINK SHE WAS
GOING TO DO THAT.
I KNOW, AND I'VE SAID THIS, YOU
KNOW, BROADENING THE OWNERSHIP
OF HYDRO ONE.
THAT WAS A HARD DECISION FOR ME
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT...

Steve says PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE
THAT DECISION, PREMIER.

Wynne says I
UNDERSTAND THAT.

Steve says 80 percent OF THE PEOPLE
POLLED DON'T LIKE THAT DECISION.

Wynne says I
UNDERSTAND THAT, STEVE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT.
THE SAME PEOPLE WANT
INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT.
EVERY MUNICIPALITY IN THIS
PROVINCE WANTS MORE ROADS, MORE
BRIDGES.
EVEN WITH THE 190 BILLION DOLLARS OVER
13 YEARS, WE'RE IN THE FIRST FEW
YEARS OF THAT INVESTMENT, THEY
STILL WANT TO SEE MORE MONEY FOR
INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO I HAD A TOUGH DECISION TO
MAKE.
DO I NOT FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, OR DO I
MAKE A DECISION THAT I KNOW IS
GOING TO BE TOUGH?
AND I DECIDED THAT THE
RESPONSIBLE THING FOR ME TO DO
WAS TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE,
BUILD ASSETS THAT WILL BE OWNED
BY THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO FOR
YEARS TO COME.

Steve says BUT THAT'S
INTERESTING.
OWNED BY THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO.
ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MIGHT HAVE
LEARNED THERE IS THAT HYDRO ONE,
WHICH WAS OWNED BY THE PEOPLE OF
ONTARIO, AND THE PEOPLE KIND OF
LIKED OWNING THAT.

Wynne says AND
IT'S STILL 40 percent, MORE THAN 40 percent
OWNED BY THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO,
STEVE.

Steve says NOT THE DECIDER...

Wynne says FAIR ENOUGH.
STILL OWNED BY 40 percent OF THE
POPULATION.
THERE'S STILL A BENEFIT THAT
FLOWS TO THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO.
NO OTHER ENTITY CAN OWN MORE
THAN 10 percent.
SO, YOU KNOW, I GET THAT THAT
WAS A CHALLENGING ISSUE, THAT IT
WAS AN UNPOPULAR THING FOR ME TO
DO, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT I
DID IT BECAUSE I HAD MADE A
PROMISE TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS
PROVINCE THAT WE WERE GOING TO
BUILD IT UP, AND WE ARE.
THERE ARE CONSTRUCTION JOBS ALL
OVER THIS PROVINCE.
THERE IS WORK AND INFRASTRUCTURE
BEING BUILT ALL OVER THIS
PROVINCE BECAUSE OF THE
DECISIONS WE'VE MADE.

Steve says THERE'S A 6 BILLION DOLLAR
LRT LINE GOING IN JUST NORTH OF
THIS STUDIO.
I SEE IT EVERY DAY.

Wynne says IT'S NOT JUST THAT 6 BILLION
DOLLAR LRT.
IT'S MUNICIPAL TRANSIT.
IT IS ROADS AND BRIDGES IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO.
I WAS JUST IN KENORA AND THERE
ARE 19 BRIDGES IN KENORA AND WE
ARE INVESTING IN REBUILDING ONE
OF THOSE.
SO THERE'S BUILDING HAPPENING
ALL OVER THE PROVINCE AND THAT'S
WHAT'S CRITICAL.

Steve says IF JOHN TORY WERE
HERE, HE COULD HAVE SAID OR HE
MIGHT HAVE SAID OR WOULD HAVE
SAID, PREMIER, YOU COULD HAVE
SAID YES TO ME BUT YOU CUT ME
OFF AT THE KNEES AND TURNED ME
INTO A GUY IN SHORT PANTS GOING
UP TO QUEEN'S PARK TO BEG FOR
MONEY.
HE'S NOT HAPPY.

Wynne says THERE IS A DOUBLING OF THE GAS
TAX.
HE WILL GET ALL THAT MONEY.
WE'VE MADE HIM WHOLE ON THAT AND
HE'LL GET IT FASTER.
YOU KNOW WHAT, STEVE?
TOLLING DISCUSSION NEEDED TO BE
REACHED.
WHEN WE'RE SO INTEGRATED IN THE
GTHA, YOU CAN'T BE JUST ONE PART
OF THE GTHA.

Steve says YOUR POSITION IS
PERFECTLY DEFENSIBLE.
I DON'T WANT TO LITIGATE THIS
ALL OVER AGAIN, BUT YOU GAVE
EVERY INDICATION THAT HE WAS
GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS
AND YOU MADE A 180, WHICH YOU'RE
ALLOWED TO DO.

Wynne says I
SAID PHILOSOPHICALLY, WE'RE NOT
OPPOSED TO TOLLS, AND I'M NOT.
I'M NOT OPPOSED TO TOLLS.
BUT THERE HAS TO BE... THERE HAS
TO BE A PROCESS THAT INCLUDES
EVERYONE.

Steve says THIS IS MY OWN
GENETIC DEFECT TALKING HERE.
I'M VERY FASCINATED BY PEOPLE
WHO HAVE THE JOB YOU HAVE.
YOU KNOW, I'VE WRITTEN A FEW
BOOKS ABOUT THIS TYPE OF STUFF.

Wynne says YOU
HAVE.
I'VE READ SOME OF THOSE.

Steve says YOU HAVE.
THANK YOU.
I CAN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THAT
WHEN LEADERS IN THIS COUNTRY,
WHEN THEY... THEY OFTEN COME IN
IN A BLAZE OF GLORY BECAUSE
THEY'RE REPLACING SOME UNPOPULAR
MAN AND THEY CAN OFTEN WIN THEIR
FIRST MANDATE, AS YOU DID, AS
CHRISTY CLARK DID, BUT THEY
DON'T GET RE-ELECTED.
YOU KNOW, I'M ASKING THE
QUESTION, I DON'T HAVE AN
ANSWER, I'M ASKING THE QUESTION:
ARE THERE TOO MANY PEOPLE IN
THIS COUNTRY WHO DON'T LIKE
LEADERSHIP WHEN IT IS PRESENTED
IN A FEMALE FORM?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Wynne says WELL, YOU KNOW, I WISH THAT... I
WISH AND HOPE THAT WEREN'T AND
ISN'T THE CASE.
BUT I THINK IF WE... YOU KNOW,
WE HAVEN'T TALKED AT ALL ABOUT
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE UNITED
STATES IN OUR CONVERSATION.
BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE IS...
THERE'S SOME RHETORIC THAT HAS
BEEN STIRRED UP, SOME OF IT
BECAUSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN
THE UNITED STATES THAT HAS
STIRRED UP... WHETHER IT'S
MISOGYNY OR DIVISION, THAT MAY
ACTUALLY FUEL SOME OF WHAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I
CAN'T QUANTIFY THAT AND I'M NOT
GOING TO... I'M NOT GOING TO
WEIGH IN ON, YOU KNOW, THE
IMPACT OF THAT ON THE AMERICAN
ELECTION.
BUT THE FACT IS THAT UP UNTIL I
WAS ELECTED, STEVE, THERE WERE
NO WOMEN IN THIS JOB, AND SO
PEOPLE AREN'T USED TO SEEING
WOMEN IN THESE POSITIONS.
THAT'S JUST A REALITY.
AND SO MAYBE... MAYBE IT'S GOING
TO TAKE A BIT OF TIME FOR PEOPLE
TO GET USED TO WHAT IT'S LIKE TO
HAVE A WOMAN IN A LEADERSHIP
ROLE IN THIS COUNTRY.
MAYBE THAT'S THE CASE.

Steve says I HEAR THAT.
BUT THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT
ARGUMENT IS, WELL, WAIT A
SECOND.
SHE WAS A WOMAN WHEN SHE WON HER
FIRST MAJORITY GOVERNMENT, SO
THEY DIDN'T... THE PUBLIC DIDN'T
HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HER BEING A
WOMAN AND CAMPAIGNING FOR THE
JOB AND THEY REWARDED HER WITH A
MAJORITY.
BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT
RE-ELECTION, AND YOU'VE SEEN IT,
OBVIOUSLY.

Wynne says WHEN I WAS ELECTED... WHEN I WAS
ELECTED THERE WERE SIX WOMEN WHO
WERE PREMIER IN THE COUNTRY.
ABSOLUTELY.
B.C., ALBERTA, Québec, ONTARIO.

Steve says NOTLEY AND YOU AND
THAT'S IT.

Wynne says NOTLEY AND I ARE THE LAST TWO
STANDING.

Steve says FROM ALBERTA.
LET ME PUSH THIS FURTHER THEN.
THERE MAY BE A FEMALE THING
HERE.
I'VE WRITTEN A COUPLE OF THINGS
ON THE TVO WEBSITE WHICH SAID,
I'M ASKING THE QUESTION, I'M NOT
SAYING IT, I'M ASKING.
THE PREMIER IS OPENLY GAY.
IS THAT ONE REASON SHE MIGHT BE
HAVING DIFFICULTY WITH HER
PERSONAL POPULARITY NUMBERS?
AGAIN, IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING
PEOPLE DIDN'T CARE MUCH ABOUT
THE FIRST TIME OUT, BUT NOW, YOU
KNOW, YOU'VE MADE DECISIONS,
YOU'RE LESS POPULAR, BARNACLES
ARE STICKING TO THE SHIP OF
STATE.
I'VE HAD MORE EMAILS FROM PEOPLE
SAYING YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING.
DON'T LET THAT GO.
I DON'T KNOW.
WHAT DO YOU HEAR?

Wynne says NOBODY SAYS THAT TO ME.
IS IT A FACTOR?
DOES HOMOPHOBIA EXIST?
ABSOLUTELY, STEVE.
BUT I CAN'T... I CAN'T LET THAT
STOP ME, YOU KNOW?
I CAN'T LET THE FACT THAT I'M A
WOMAN AND WOMEN ARE NOT AS
LIKELY TO BE RE-ELECTED AS MEN...
I CAN'T LET THAT STOP ME.
AND REMEMBER, PEOPLE SAID TO ME
IN THE PARTY, YOU CAN'T WIN.
WHEN I WENT INTO THE LEADERSHIP,
PEOPLE SAID YOU CAN'T WIN
BECAUSE YOU'RE A LESBIAN.
YOU CAN'T BE THE PREMIER OF
ONTARIO.
YOU WON'T BE ELECTED AS THE
PREMIER OF ONTARIO...

Steve says I THINK THEY SAID
THAT TO YOU WHEN YOU RAN FOR
M.P.P.

Wynne says THEY SAID IT TO ME WHEN I WAS AN
M.P.P., THEY SAID IT TO ME WHEN
I WAS RUNNING FOR THE
LEADERSHIP.
I HEAR IT, BUT I CAN'T TAKE IT
IN.
I HAVE TO SAY, FINE, THAT'S YOUR
OPINION, AND NOW I'M JUST GOING
TO GO ABOUT MY BUSINESS AND DO
MY JOB.

Steve says LET'S FINISH UP ON
THIS.
THIS IS GOING TO SOUND LIKE AN
ODD QUESTION.
BUT I JUST FINISHED... THIS IS
HOW INTERESTING MY SUMMER WAS.
I FINISHED A 1200-PAGE BOOK ON
BARACK OBAMA.
ABOUT 1,000 PAGES OF WHICH IS
BIRTH TO BECOMING PRESIDENT.
IT'S NOT ABOUT HIS PRESIDENCY,
IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT HIS LIFE.
AND THE BOOK CONCLUDED THAT HE
WAS OBVIOUSLY AN HISTORICALLY
IMPORTANT PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE
ACTUALLY CARED A LOT ABOUT
POLICY, HE CARED ABOUT IMPROVING
PEOPLE'S LIVES, HE WAS THERE TO
DO THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS AND DO
GOOD.
IT ALSO CONCLUDED HE ACTUALLY
DIDN'T LIKE POLITICS VERY MUCH
AND HE REALLY DIDN'T LIKE
POLITICIANS VERY MUCH AT ALL.
WHEN I READ THAT, I THOUGHT, I'M
GOING TO ASK KATHLEEN WYNNE THAT
QUESTION: DO YOU LIKE POLITICS?

Wynne says I
LOVE... I LOVE BEING ABLE TO
WORK TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.
I LOVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY
GET INTO THE ISSUES THAT AFFECT
PEOPLE'S LIVES EVERY DAY.
I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST STARTED
CANVASSING... IN 1994 I RAN FOR
SCHOOL TRUSTEE AGAINST PEOPLE
WHO WERE ON THE BOARD FOR A LONG
TIME IN TORONTO.
I REMEMBER BEGINNING THE
CANVASSING EXERCISE AND FEELING
LIKE THIS IS JUST THE BEST THING
IN THE WORLD, TO BE ABLE TO GO
UP TO PEOPLE AND HAVE A REAL
CONVERSATION ABOUT AN IMPORTANT
ISSUE WITHOUT HAVING TO...
WITHOUT HAVING TO EXPLAIN WHY,
YOU KNOW?
THERE'S NO SMALL TALK HERE.
WE CAN JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT'S
GOING ON IN YOUR CHILD'S LIFE
BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE IT
BETTER.
AND THAT'S STILL WHAT I LOVE
ABOUT POLITICS.
NO MATTER WHERE I GO... AND I GO
INTO TIM HORTON'S ALL OVER THE
PROVINCE.
I CAN WALK UP TO A TABLE, AND
WHETHER THE PEOPLE LIKE ME OR
NOT, THEY ARE OPEN TO HAVING A
CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT'S
BUGGING THEM OR WHAT THEY'RE
HAPPY ABOUT BECAUSE I'M... IT'S
LIKE I'M A VECTOR FOR THAT
DISCUSSION.
I LOVE THAT, STEVE.

Steve says DO YOU LIKE
POLITICIANS?

Wynne says SOME.

Steve says ONLY THE RED KIND OR
DO YOU LIKE SOME BLUE AND ORANGE
AS WELL?

Wynne says I
LIKE POLITICIANS.
I LIKE PEOPLE.
I LIKE PEOPLE.
AND I LIKE PEOPLE IN ALL
THEIR... ALL THEIR DIVERSITY,
YOU KNOW?
I AM FASCINATED BY THE POINTS OF
VIEW THAT I COME ACROSS IN
POLITICS, AND I FIRMLY
BELIEVE... YOU TALK ABOUT
PARTISAN DIFFERENCES.
I BELIEVE THAT EVERY PERSON WHO
SITS IN THAT LEGISLATURE IS
THERE BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THEY
HAVE SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE.
WE ALL EXPRESS IT DIFFERENTLY,
AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT LIFE
EXPERIENCE.
BUT THEY WOULDN'T PUT THEMSELVES
THROUGH THE...

Steve says IT'S A GRIND.

Wynne says...
THROUGH THE CHALLENGE OF PUTTING
YOUR NAME ON A SIGN AND
RUNNING... AS MY SON SAID TO ME,
YOU KNOW, MOM, YOU COULD JUST
APPLY FOR A JOB LIKE EVERYBODY
ELSE.
HE SAID THAT YEARS AGO.
BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THERE'S
SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL ABOUT
WINNING PEOPLE'S TRUST AND THEN
WORKING TO LIVE UP TO IT.
AND WE ARE FLAWED.
WE DON'T ALWAYS DO THAT.
BUT THAT EFFORT, I JUST LOVE
THAT.

Steve says LAST QUESTION: DID
YOU EVER... AND YOU SURE GOT A
LOT OF ADVICE FROM A LOT OF
DIFFERENT CORNERS, INCLUDING
FROM A FORMER FINANCE MINISTER
OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO ON
THIS PROGRAM... TO QUIT.
NUMEROUS PEOPLE URGED YOU TO
THINK HARD ABOUT WHETHER YOU
REALLY WANTED TO LEAD THE PARTY
INTO THE NEXT ELECTION NEXT
JUNE.
DID YOU EVER ENTERTAIN THAT
IDEA?

Wynne says I
THOUGHT RESPONSIBLY AND
SERIOUSLY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE
THERE WERE LOTS OF PEOPLE SAYING
IT TO ME.
BUT IN MY HEART, I NEVER
BELIEVED THAT I WOULD LEAVE.
I BELIEVE THAT MY WORK IS NOT
DONE AND THAT I NEED TO LEAD THE
PARTY INTO THE NEXT ELECTION.

Steve says AND YOU'RE PREPARED
TO GAMBLE ON LEAVING POLITICS
THE WAY THAT NO ONE WANTS TO
LEAVE, WHICH IS TO BE INVITED BY
THE PEOPLE NOT TO COME BACK?

Wynne says I'M
ALWAYS PREPARED TO LOSE.
I LOST MY FIRST ELECTION.
THAT ONE I WAS JUST TALKING TO
YOU ABOUT.
I LOST MY FIRST NOMINATION RACE.

Steve says TO MICHAEL BRYANT.

Wynne says TO
MICHAEL BRYANT.
I'M ALWAYS PREPARED TO LOSE.
I BELIEVE IT'S IMPORTANT IF I
FEEL AND IF I HAVE A TEAM THAT
BELIEVES I HAVE SOMETHING TO
CONTRIBUTE TO THE DEBATE AND
THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO
RUN, THEN IT'S WORTH TAKING THE
RISK.
POLITICS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT
TO ME.
IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO ME
THAT WE HAVE GOOD GOVERNMENT IN
THIS PROVINCE AND IN THIS
COUNTRY, AND I WOULD SAY, STEVE,
AT THIS MOMENT IN THE HISTORY OF
NORTH AMERICA, IT'S EVEN MORE
IMPORTANT.
AND IT'S EVEN MORE IMPORTANT
THAT WOMEN LEADERS STEP UP AND
SAY, THIS IS RIGHT.
THIS IS... THIS IS THE PATH THAT
WE SHOULD BE ON.
I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE IN
ONTARIO... I SAID THIS IN MY
LEADERSHIP SPEECH, YOU KNOW?
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE
BIGOTED.
I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HOLD
PREJUDICE IN THEIR HEARTS.
AND SO IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT
TO ME THAT I BE A VOICE FOR THAT
POSITION IN THE NEXT ELECTION
AND THAT'S WHY I'M DOING IT.

Steve says PREMIER, I SUSPECT
WE WILL SEE YOU AGAIN IN THAT
CHAIR IN MAYBE MAY OR JUNE OF NEXT YEAR.

Wynne says THERE YOU GO.
LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

Steve says WE THANK YOU FOR
THIS VISIT TONIGHT.

Wynne says THANKS, STEVE.

The caption changes to "A Premier Conversation. Producer: Steve Paikin @spaikin. Producer: Cara Stern @carastern."

Watch: A Premier Conversation