Transcript: Ontario Election Preview: The Liberal Deputy Leader | Jun 07, 2017

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped red tie.

A caption on screen reads "Ontario election preview: The Deputy Premier. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says 365 DAYS FROM NOW,
ONTARIANS WILL RENDER THEIR
VERDICT ON THE PREVIOUS FOUR
YEARS OF KATHLEEN WYNNE'S
ADMINISTRATION IN THE PROVINCE.
HERE, REPRESENTING THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT, IS THE DEPUTY
PREMIER AND MPP FOR LONDON
NORTH CENTRE, DEB MATTHEWS.

Deb is in her late forties, with short blond hair and side-swept bangs. She's wearing a bright red blazer over a black blouse, and a golden pendant necklace.

Steve continues NICE TO HAVE YOU IN THAT CHAIR AGAIN.

Deb says GREAT TO BE HERE.

Steve says I WANT TO KNOW WHAT
YOU THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING YOUR PARTY HAS TO DO IN
ORDER TO BE REELECTED ONE YEAR
FROM TONIGHT?

The caption changes to "Deb Matthews. Deputy Premier."
Then, it changes again to "Can Wynne win again?"

Deb says I THINK
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS TELL THE
STORY OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND
HOW WE'RE MAKING LIFE BETTER FOR
ORDINARY ONTARIANS, WHETHER IT'S
FREE TUITION FOR OVER 200,000
STUDENTS, WHETHER IT'S FREE DRUG
COVERAGE FOR PEOPLE UNDER AGE
25, WHETHER IT'S THE CHANGES
WE'VE ANNOUNCED ON MINIMUM WAGE.
100,000 MORE CHILD CARE SPACES.
WE'RE DOUBLING THE CAPACITY OF
CHILD CARE ACROSS THE PROVINCE
OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS.
A RANGE OF THINGS THAT WE'VE
DONE THAT WE NEED TO GET OUT AND
TALK ABOUT.
PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
OUR VALUES ARE AND HOW WE'RE
ACTING ON THOSE VALUES.

Steve says I KNOW YOU GUYS
THINK YOU HAVE A GOOD NEWS STORY
TO TELL, AND YET THE POLLS
SUGGEST... AND I KNOW POLLS ARE
WORTH, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU PAY
FOR THEM... BUT THEY SUGGEST
EITHER THE WORD IS NOT GETTING
OUT OR PEOPLE ARE NOT ON SIDE
WITH YOUR AGENDA.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON?

Deb says YOU KNOW, I DON'T PAY A LOT
OF ATTENTION TO POLLS BETWEEN
ELECTIONS AND IF YOU ACTUALLY
DID A STUDY AND LOOKED AT WHAT
THE POLLING NUMBERS SAY A YEAR
BEFORE AN ELECTION, WHAT THEY
SAY AT THE BEGINNING OF AN
ELECTION, AND WHAT THE RESULTS
ARE... IF THERE'S ANY
CORRELATION, IT'S A NEGATIVE
CORRELATION.
SO I THINK FOR US, WE KNOW WHAT
WE WANT TO DO.
WE'RE LIBERALS.
WE'VE WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET
TO BALANCE.
YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE FIRST
BALANCED BUDGET THIS YEAR IN...

Steve says ALMOST A DECADE.

Deb says IN ALMOST A DECADE.
AND THE ECONOMY IS GROWING
FASTER IN ONTARIO THAN ANYWHERE
ELSE IN THE COUNTRY, LEADING THE
G-7 COUNTRIES SO WE'RE DOING A
REALLY GOOD JOB ON ECONOMIC GROWTH.
WE'VE GOT OUR BOOKS IN ORDER.
AND THAT GIVES US THE FREEDOM TO
DO THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN WANTING
TO DO FOR A LONG TIME.

Steve says LET'S GRANT YOU ALL
OF THAT BUT THEN ASK THE
FOLLOWING QUESTION: THEN WHY ARE
THE PREMIER'S POPULARITY NUMBERS
PERSONALLY SO IN THE TANK?

Deb says SO I GET TO WORK WITH
KATHLEEN WYNNE EVERY DAY.
I AM A HUGE ADMIRER OF HER.
AND MY CAUCUS, MY CABINET
COLLEAGUES, WE ALL THINK THE
WORLD OF HER.
I'VE GIVEN UP TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND HOW SOME POLITICIANS
ARE POPULAR AND SOME AREN'T.
SHE IS A REMARKABLE WOMAN WITH A
REMARKABLE WORK ETHIC, SHE
REALLY LEADS WITH HER VALUES.
SHE'S GOT ALL THE INGREDIENTS,
AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE
CAMPAIGN AND THE LEADUP TO THE
CAMPAIGN WHERE SHE IS GOING TO
GET OUT AND TALK TO MORE PEOPLE
AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
WHAT IS THE WOMAN I WANT TO LEAD
MY PROVINCE.

Steve says YOU MAY HAVE STOPPED
ASKING THE QUESTION BUT I HAVE
NOT BECAUSE I'M TRULY INTRIGUED
BY THE FACT THAT LIBERALS REALLY
LIKE HER, THEY THINK SHE
CONNECTS WITH PEOPLE, SHE'S A
HARD WORKER, ALL OF THE ABOVE.
SO I'M REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.
YOU WERE A DEMOGRAPHER BEFORE
YOU GOT INTO POLITICS SO YOU
UNDERSTAND PEOPLE AND HOW THEY THINK.
DO YOU THINK HER GENDER HAS
ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT
THAT SHE'S NOT MORE POPULAR?

Deb says YOU KNOW, I'VE ASKED MYSELF
THAT QUESTION MANY TIMES AND I
DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
ANSWER IS.
BUT THE REALITY IS, SHE'S A
WOMAN AND SHE'S FANTASTIC AND
SHE IS GOING TO WORK HARD, WE'RE
ALL GOING TO WORK HARD, AND SEE
WHAT THE PEOPLE SAY A YEAR FROM TODAY.

Steve says SO YOU'RE DODGING
THAT ONE.
LET ME TRY ANOTHER ONE.
DO YOU THINK HER SEXUAL
ORIENTATION HAS ANYTHING TO DO
WITH HER LOW POPULARITY?

Deb says I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO HAD A
PROBLEM WITH THAT HAD A PROBLEM
WITH IT AND STILL HAVE A PROBLEM
WITH IT, BUT I DON'T... I DON'T
THINK SO.
I THINK IT'S JUST PART OF WHO
SHE IS.

Steve says LET ME TRY ANOTHER
OPTION HERE.
BECAUSE I DO HEAR THIS
CRITICISM... AND I ASK PEOPLE
THIS QUESTION EVERY DAY.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE PREMIER...

Deb says DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER?

Steve says YOU KNOW, I'M EXPLORING.
I REALLY AM LOOKING INTO IT.
AND THE CRITICISM I DO HEAR FED
BACK TO ME MOST FREQUENTLY IS,
SHE'S NOT WHO WE THOUGHT SHE WAS.
SHE GOT ELECTED 3 YEARS AGO ON
"I'M DINNER....
DIFFERENT.
I'M NICER.
I'M NOT GOING TO BE LIKE WHAT
CAME BEFORE ME AND SOME THINGS
HAVE TAKEN PLACE OVER THE
INTERVENING 3 YEARS TO MAKE
PEOPLE CONCLUDE, GOD, SHE'S JUST
LIKE EVERY OTHER BLOODY
POLITICIAN WHO HAS BROKEN OUR HEARTS.
DO YOU HEAR THAT?

The caption changes to "Deb Matthews, @Deb_Matthews."

Deb says WHAT I HEAR... GO BACK TO
WHAT SHE DID ON PENSION REFORM.
WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A
COMFORTABLE RETIREMENT.
WE WENT FROM HAVING AN ONTARIO
RETIREMENT PENSION PLAN TO THE
NATION NOW IS GOING TO HAVE
ENHANCED PENSION.
FREE TUITION.
CHILD CARE SPACES, DOUBLING THE
NUMBER OF SPOTS AVAILABLE.
ALL OF THE INITIATIVES.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE ANNOUNCED THE...
INCREASED THE MINIMUM WAGE, PAID
SICK DAYS...

Steve says THIS IS ALL TRUE.
YOU'VE ALSO GOT...

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Deb says THESE ARE THE EXPRESSION OF
HER VALUES.
IT'S WHO SHE IS.

Steve says I HEAR YOU.

Deb says SHE IS BOLD, BRAVE, AND
DRIVING CHANGE.

Steve says THERE'S ALSO POLICE
INVESTIGATIONS AND ALSO A COMING
COURT CASE IN SEPTEMBER AND
THERE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, STILL
FALLOUT FROM GAS PLANTS AND
THERE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF
MONKEY BUSINESS AROUND THE
SUDBURY BY-ELECTION THAT GOT
GLEN THIBEAULT INTO YOUR
GOVERNMENT AND THAT GOT FED BACK
TO ME LIKE, OH, SHE IS JUST LIKE
EVERYBODY ELSE.

Deb says SHE IS AN EXTRAORDINARY
PERSON AND UNLIKE ANYBODY I'VE
WORKED WITH.

Steve says I DIDN'T EXPECT
YOU'D CHANGE YOUR MIND BUT I
THOUGHT I'D PUT THAT OUT THERE.
YOU KNOW GREG SORBARA.

Deb says I DO.

Steve says YOU SAT IN CAUCUS
WITH GREG SORBARA.
HE WAS ON THIS PROGRAM A WHILE
AGO AND HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO
SAY ABOUT YOUR FUTURE PROSPECTS.
ROLL IT.

A clip plays on screen with the caption "Greg Sorbara. March 21, 2017."
In the clip, Sorbara speaks in the studio. He's in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair.

He says UNLESS THINGS CHANGE
DRAMATICALLY, THE ONTARIO
LIBERAL PARTY SADLY IS GOING TO
LOSE THE NEXT ONTARIO ELECTION.
IF THAT HAPPENS, THE PREMIER
WILL RESIGN AFTER THAT AND THERE
WILL BE A LEADERSHIP AND A
RENEWAL OF THE PERSON AT THE TOP.
SO I WOULD SAY YOU HAVE TO ASK
YOURSELF, PREMIER, WHETHER,
GIVEN THAT SCENARIO, IT'S BETTER
TO STEP DOWN BEFORE THE NEXT
ELECTION, AND DO WHAT DALTON
McGUINTY DID AND LET SOMEONE
ELSE GIVE IT A TRY, OR TO STAY
AND TRY AND PULL IT THROUGH.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAVE... I'VE
TALKED TO A LOT OF LIBERALS WHO
ARE, FRANKLY, DESPONDENT ABOUT
THEIR PROSPECTS.
SITTING MEMBERS AND MINISTERS
WHO SAY, IF THE ELECTION WERE
HELD TODAY, I'D COME IN THIRD.

The clip ends.

Steve says HOW DESPONDENT DO
YOU THINK YOUR PARTY IS RIGHT NOW?

Deb says YOU
KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE'RE
DESPONDENT.
I THINK... WE'VE HAD A ROUGH GO,
NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
BUT WE WERE ALL OUT CANVASSING
ON THE WEEKEND AND I'VE SPOKEN
TO SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO
WERE OUT KNOCKING ON DOORS AND I
WAS OUT MYSELF, AND IT FEELS A
LOT BETTER THAN I ACTUALLY
EXPECTED, TO BE HONEST.

Steve says YOU JUST CAME THIRD
IN THE SAULT STE. MARIE
BY-ELECTION.
HOW CAN IT FEEL BETTER?

Deb says YOU KNOW, THESE BY-ELECTIONS
ARE NOT PREDICTIVE OF ANYTHING.
BUT I THINK PEOPLE ARE STARTING
TO HEAR EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING
ON THE AGENDA FOR MAKING LIFE
BETTER FOR PEOPLE.

Steve says DO YOU RUN INTO
PEOPLE WHO THINK KATHLEEN WYNNE
OUGHT TO STEP DOWN BEFORE THE
NEXT ELECTION, GIVE SOMEBODY
ELSE A TURN?

Deb says OH, OF COURSE I DO.
AND EVERYBODY DOES.
AND THAT WOULD BE TRUE NO MATTER
WHO OUR LEADER WAS.
BUT SHE'S STAYING, AND I'M
REALLY HAPPY SHE'S STAYING, AND
WE'LL BE BACK AND YOU'LL...
YOU'LL SEE HOW TERRIFIC A
CAMPAIGN SHE RAN.

Steve says YOU HAVE MADE...
YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS MADE
NUMEROUS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, GOOD
NEWS ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT OUGHT TO
HAVE FOUND A LOT OF FAVOUR IN A
PLACE LIKE SAULT STE. MARIE
WHERE A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE
WOULD BE WELCOMED, WHERE A
BALANCED BUDGET WOULD BE
WELCOMED, WHERE LABOUR CHANGES,
YOU KNOW, EXTRA VACATION TIME,
AND YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE
SHIFT, THERE'S GOING TO BE A
FINANCIAL PENALTY FOR DOING SO,
ALL THAT STUFF.
YOU WOULD THINK THOSE
ANNOUNCEMENTS WOULD FIND FAVOUR
IN SAULT STE. MARIE AND YOUR
CANDIDATE LOST 30 POINTS, 35
POINTS, I THINK, FROM THE LAST
TIME DAVID ORAZIETTI WON THE
SEAT JUST THREE YEARS AGO.
HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THAT?

Deb says SO, AS I SAID EARLIER,
BY-ELECTIONS ARE BY-ELECTIONS.
THEY'RE TOUGH ON GOVERNMENT FOR SURE.
I THINK THE NDP IS PROBABLY
WONDERING WHAT WENT WRONG THERE
FOR THEM.
WE'VE... I DON'T PUT A LOT OF
STOCK IN BY-ELECTIONS.
WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE
GENERAL ELECTION.

Steve says YEAH, THAT'S ALL TRUE.
BUT IT'S AN IMPORTANT... I MEAN,
IT'S BEYOND A POLL, IT'S AN
ACTUAL TANGIBLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE...

Deb says BUT IT IS NOT A BAROMETER OF
WHO YOU WANT TO BE YOUR PREMIER,
AND THAT'S WHAT A GENERAL
ELECTION DOES.
IT CHOOSES A GOVERNMENT.
IT CHOOSES A PREMIER.
A BY-ELECTION DOESN'T.
IT GIVES YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO
SEND THE GOVERNMENT A MESSAGE,
AND OUR MESSAGE IS, WE'VE STILL
GOT WORK TO DO BUT WE'VE GOT THE
RIGHT THINGS IN PLACE.
I MEAN, BRINGING THE PRICE OF
HYDRO DOWN BY 25 percent AND
SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN THAT FOR
PEOPLE WHO PAY THE HIGHEST
PRICES, PEOPLE IN RURAL AND
REMOTE AREAS.

Steve says THAT'S A NEW POLICY
THAT JUST WENT IN JUNE 1ST.
DO YOU THINK THAT HAS NOW SOLVED
THE HYDRO CRISIS IN THE PROVINCE?

Deb says PEOPLE AREN'T SEEING THAT YET.
THEY SAW THE FIRST 8 percent.
THE REMAINDER WILL COME IN THE
SUMMER TIME ON THEIR BILLS.
SO WHEN PEOPLE START TO SEE
THAT, I THINK THAT WILL
DEFINITELY... PEOPLE WILL TAKE
NOTICE OF THAT.

Steve says YOU KNOW, IT'S A
LITTLE INSIDE BASEBALL, BUT
THERE'S A JOB AT QUEEN'S PARK
CALLED THE FINANCIAL
ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICER AND HIS
JOB IS TO LOOK AT GOVERNMENT
POLICIES AND BASICALLY COST THEM
OUT AND GIVE IT THE ONCE-OVER.
AND IT IS HIS VIEW THAT THIS
POLICY OF ESSENTIALLY MAKING
ELECTRICITY CHEAPER TODAY WILL,
OVER THE NEXT ALMOST THREE
DECADES, COST US AN ADDITIONAL
21 BILLION DOLLARS AS WE KICK THOSE
COSTS DOWN THE ROAD.
IS THAT A WISE EXPENDITURE OF
21 BILLION DOLLARS, IN YOUR VIEW?

Deb says YES, I THINK IT WAS WHAT WE
HAD TO DO.
IT'S LIKE EXTENDING YOUR
MORTGAGE.
YOU MIGHT, WHEN YOU BUY A HOUSE,
THINK I CAN PAY THIS OFF IN 20
YEARS, BUT THEN AS YOU MAKE
THOSE MONTHLY PAYMENTS, YOU
THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO
REFINANCE THAT.
I'M GOING TO HAVE A LONGER
PERIOD OF PAY-BACK.
OF COURSE THAT COSTS MORE MONEY.
AND ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER HAD A
MORTGAGE KNOWS IF THEY ADDED UP
THEIR MONTHLY PAYMENTS IT WOULD
BE FAR MORE THAN THE PRICE THEY
PAID FOR THEIR HOUSE.

Steve says I HEAR THAT ANALOGY
ALL THE TIME AND THE DIFFERENCE
IS THAT'S YOU MAKING A DECISION
FOR YOURSELF TO CHARGE YOURSELF
MORE IN THE LONG RUN.
I HEAR THE PREMIER TALK ALL THE
TIME ABOUT WANTING TO MAKE THIS
PROVINCE BETTER FOR HER CHILDREN
AND GRANDCHILDREN, BUT SHE'S
JUST ADDED 21 BILLION DOLLARS NOT TO
HER COSTS BUT TO HER CHILDREN'S
AND GRAND CHILDREN'S COSTS.
IS THAT FAIR?

Deb says IT IS ABSOLUTELY FAIR AND
IT'S FAIR BECAUSE THOSE KIDS ARE
GOING TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM
THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE'VE
INVESTED.
WE'VE SPENT 50 BILLION DOLLARS BUILDING
A STRONGER ELECTRICITY SYSTEM.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING ANYBODY SEES
UNLESS YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN A
COUNTRY ROAD AND YOU SEE THE NEW
HYDRO POLES, THE NEW WIRES.
THAT'S WHAT THIS INFRASTRUCTURE
IS ALL ABOUT, AND IT'LL BE THERE
FOR A LONG TIME, AND SO WE'LL
SPREAD THE PAYMENTS OUT OVER THE
LIFE OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE.

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT THE
PREMIER AND THE MAYOR OF HER
CAPITAL CITY.

Deb says YES.

Steve says OF WHICH SHE REPRESENTS.
SHE HAS A SEAT IN IT.
I REMEMBER WHEN JOHN TORY GOT
ELECTED THE MAYOR OF TORONTO,
SHE WAS QUOTED... SHE WAS
OVERSEAS I THINK AT THE TIME.
SHE WAS QUOTED AS SAYING
HALLELUJAH.
SHE IS NOT SAYING HALLELUJAH
ANYMORE. THEY'RE NOT GETTING
ALONG SO WELL.
HOW COME?

The caption changes to "The Premier and the Mayor."

Deb says WELL, I THINK THAT... OF
COURSE, I'M NOT FROM TORONTO BUT
I DO WATCH THIS WITH SIGNIFICANT
INTEREST.
SOMEHOW I THINK THE GOVERNMENT
OF TORONTO, THE MAYOR, HAS
FORGOTTEN THAT WE'RE PAYING 100 percent
OF THE EGLINTON CROSSTOWN.
THAT'S A BIG, BIG, BIG
EXPENDITURE.

Steve says SIX BILLION DOLLARS.

Deb says IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE
INVESTMENTS WE'VE MADE IN
TRANSIT IN TORONTO, IT'S A VERY
SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT.
THE THINGS WE'RE DOING ON
HOUSING.
VERY SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE
OVERPROMISED AND WHETHER HE
CAN'T AFFORD TO DELIVER WHAT HE
SAID HE WOULD DELIVER SO HE'S
GOT TO FIND SOMEBODY TO BLAME
THAT ON.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT MY
CONSTITUENTS IN LONDON THINK
THAT MAYBE TORONTO'S GETTING TOO
MUCH ATTENTION, TOO MUCH.

Steve says OF COURSE, EVERYBODY
OUTSIDE TORONTO THINKS THAT AND,
YOU KNOW, THAT'S FINE.
BUT THE PREMIER, AFTER GIVING
THE MAYOR OF TORONTO EVERY
INDICATION THAT HE WAS GOING TO
BE ALLOWED TO TOLL TWO OF THE
HIGHWAYS THAT HE'S RESPONSIBLE
FOR, SHE DID A 180 AND SAID,
"NOT GONNA HAPPEN."
HOW DAMAGING DO YOU THINK...

Deb says AT THE SAME TIME...

Steve says OKAY, GAVE HIM MORE
GAS TAX MONEY.

Deb says THE EQUIVALENT THAT HE
PROJECTED HE'D GET IN TOLLS IS
HOW MUCH HE'S GETTING IN GAS TAX MONEY.

Steve says THE DIFFERENCE IS HE
HAS TO BEG HER FOR THAT MONEY
INSTEAD OF BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR
RAISING IT HIMSELF.

Deb says HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BEG FOR IT.
IT'S THERE.
DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY GOING
ON GAS TAX TO EVERY MUNICIPALITY
ACROSS THE PROVINCE, AND HE
STARTS TO COLLECT THAT MONEY
IMMEDIATELY INSTEAD OF HAVING TO
PUT ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN
FORTOLOGY.

Steve says IT'S THERE UNTIL
SOME FUTURE PREMIER OR MAYBE,
WHO KNOWS, EVEN THIS PREMIER,
DECIDES I CAN'T AFFORD TO DO IT
ANYMORE AND CAN CLAW IT BACK.

Deb says THAT ARGUMENT WOULD APPLY IF
SOMEBODY TOOK AWAY THE RIGHT TO TOLL.

Steve says WHICH SHE DID.

Deb says SHE NEVER GRANTED THE RIGHT
TO TOLL.

Steve says OKAY.
BOTTOM LINE, POLITICALLY
SPEAKING, WAS THAT A BIG MISTAKE
AND DID IT END UP DAMAGING HER
RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM 1234.

Deb says WITH HIM?

Deb says I THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT DECISION.
AT THE CORE, JOHN TORY AND
KATHLEEN WYNNE SHARE A LOT.
SHE BEAT HIM IN AN ELECTION, BUT
THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR
EACH OTHER, AND I THINK THEY
SHARE A LOT OF VALUES.
SO I THINK WE'RE IN A FUNNY
LITTLE DANCE RIGHT NOW BUT I
THINK THE FOUNDATION IS A LOT OF
MUTUAL RESPECT AND WE'LL FIND
OUR WAY THROUGH THIS.

Steve says OKAY, BUT IT'S MY
JOB TO SUGGEST THAT, I DON'T KNOW.
YOU SAY YOU'VE DONE A LOT ON
SOCIAL HOUSING, AND THAT IS TRUE.

Deb says YEAH.

Steve says I HEAR THE MAYOR OF
TORONTO SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A
BILLION DOLLARS' WORTH OF
REPAIRS NEEDED BY THE TORONTO
COMMUNITY HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS.

Deb says YEAH.

Steve says AND THERE'S NO MONEY
COMING FORWARD SO FAR FROM THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO TO DEAL WITH
THAT.
THAT'S HIS POSITION.
IS THAT NOT TRUE?

Deb says YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE MONEY
THAT WE'RE COLLECTING THROUGH
CAP AND TRADE, A SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF THAT MONEY IS GOING TO
RETROFIT SOCIAL HOUSING.
THAT WORK IS UNDERWAY NOW, TO
MAKE THEM MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT.
THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT SAVING AND
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS
FACTORING THAT IN TO THAT WHOLE
CALCULATION OF HOW MUCH WE'RE
INVESTING IN HOUSING.
NO QUESTION, SOCIAL HOUSING,
REPAIR BACKLOG IS AN ISSUE
ACROSS THE PROVINCE AND WE ARE
WORKING TO ADDRESS THAT.

Steve says I THINK ONE OF THE
REASONS JOHN TORY WON HIS
ELECTION AS HE DID... HOW LONG
IS IT NOW?
THREE YEARS AGO, I GUESS, THAT
HE WON....
WAS BECAUSE A NUMBER OF
PEOPLE IN THE CAPITAL CITY GOT
TIRED OF SEEING THE PREMIER AND
THE THEN MAYOR NOT ON SPEAKING
TERMS AND THEY THOUGHT THAT THE
DYSFUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP WAS
PROBABLY HARMING THE SMOOTH
RUNNING OF THINGS.
AND I SUSPECT THEY'RE CONCERNED
TODAY THAT THE DETERIORATED
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PREMIER
AND THE MAYOR IS CAUSING SIMILAR
PROBLEMS.
IS IT?

Deb says WE'VE GOT A VERY GOOD
RELATIONSHIP.
AS I SAID, EGLINTON CROSSTOWN,
100 percent BENEFIT...

Steve says IT'S ONE MINUTE
OUTSIDE THE STUDIO.
I KNOW IT.

Deb says THE TUNNEL IS THROUGH NOW...

Steve says IT'S GOING THROUGH.

Deb says IT'S MOVING FORWARD.
I MEAN, WHY...

Steve says WHAT ABOUT THE
RELIEF LINE?
WHERE IS THE MONEY FOR THE
RELIEF LINE?

Deb says WE'RE IN CONSTANT
CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY OF
TORONTO ON WHAT WE CAN DO.
BUT I THINK TO SUGGEST THAT
ONTARIO IS NOT DOING ITS SHARE
IS JUST WRONG.

Steve says ONE LAST QUESTION ON THIS.
YOU KNOW HE'S HAD PATRICK BROWN
AND ANDREA HORWATH DOWN TO HIS
OFFICE AND DOWN PHOTO OPS WITH HIM.
DO YOU OBJECT TO THAT?

Deb says OF COURSE NOT.
I THINK HE CAN MEET WITH ANYBODY
HE WANTS TO.

Steve says SHE'S THE PREMIER,
KATHLEEN WYNNE, AND, YOU KNOW,
ONE COULD INFER FROM THIS THAT
HE'S TRYING TO KIND OF THUMB HIS
NOSE AT HER A LITTLE BIT BY
DOING SO.

Deb says I WOULDN'T READ ANYTHING INTO
THAT AT ALL.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT I DO FOR
A LIVING.
OKAY.
LET'S TRY THIS IN OUR LAST FEW
MINUTES HERE.
YOU GOT ELECTED IN 2003.

Deb says YES.

Steve says WHICH MEANS YOU HAVE
ONLY EVER BEEN IN PROVINCIAL
POLITICS ON THE GOVERNMENT SIDE
OF THE LEGISLATURE.

Deb says ON THE GOVERNMENT SIDE, YEAH.
WHICH SUITS ME JUST FINE, BY THE WAY.

Steve says DON'T YOU THINK IT'S
BAD FOR DEMOCRACY TO HAVE THE
SAME PARTY IN FOR FIVE STRAIGHT
ELECTIONS?

Deb says NOT IF THE PARTY IS DOING THING.

Steve says ARE YOU COMMITTED TO
RUNNING FOR REELECTION?

The caption changes to "Another mandate?"

Deb says YES.

Steve says I CAN DRIVE A MACK
TRUCK THROUGH THAT SENTENCE, "I
AM PLANNING TO RUN AGAIN"?

Deb says I'M PLANNING TO RUN AGAIN.
THAT IS MY PLAN.
IT IS SUCH AN EXCITING TIME TO
BE A LIBERAL IN ONTARIO.
I LOVE WHAT I DO.
I LOVE THE TEAM I WORK WITH.
WHY WOULD I GIVE THAT UP?

Steve says WE ARE RECORDING
THESE INTERVIEWS.
YOU KNOW WE CAN PLAY THESE TAPES BACK.

Deb says ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS I'M PLANNING TO RUN AGAIN THAT'S
NOT SAYING 100 percent GUARANTEED...

Deb says I'M YOU RUNNING AGAIN, STEVE.
GUARANTEED.

Steve says 110 percent?

Deb says 110 percent?

Steve says HOW COME YOU HAVEN'T
CALLED YOUR NOMINATION MEETING?

Deb says IT'S A YEAR OUT.
I'VE BEEN OUT CANVASSING.
THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

Steve says IT WOULD BE
UNDERSTANDABLE, I THINK, IF
THERE WERE A BUNCH OF CABINET
MINISTERS AND-OR BACKBENCHERS
WHO ARE NOW IN THEIR 60s, AS
YOU ARE...

Deb says AS I AM.

Steve says OR EVEN 70s.

Deb says AS I AM NOT.
NOT YET.

Steve says BUT AS SOME OF THE
OTHERS ARE.
NOT TO RUN AGAIN.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN TERMS OF
WHO'S NOT GOING TO COME BACK?

Deb says YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO GIVE IT
SOME THOUGHT NOW.
IT'S A BIG COMMITMENT.
YOU KNOW. I DON'T KNOW THAT
THE PUBLIC KNOWS.
IT'S A TOUGH JOB.
IT'S VERY DEMANDING.
WE WORK HARD, LONG HOURS ALMOST
EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK USUALLY.
SO, YEAH, I DO THINK THAT THERE
ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND
A LONG TIME, WILL CHOOSE NOT TO
RUN, AND THAT WILL GIVE US THE
OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT REVIVAL,
THE RENEWAL, WHICH I THINK IS
REALLY IMPORTANT IN POLITICS AS WELL.

Steve says LET'S FINISH UP ON
THIS... AGAIN, I ASK PEOPLE
EVERY DAY: WHY ISN'T THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT MORE POPULAR? WHY
ISN'T THE PREMIER MORE POPULAR?
AND I WAS IN SAULT STE. MARIE
NOT TOO LONG AGO. THIS WAS WELL
BEFORE THE BY-ELECTION SEVERAL
MONTHS AGO AND I SPOKE TO, I
THINK SHE'S PROBABLY ABOUT 50
YEARS OLD, A PROFESSOR AT, I
THINK, SAULT COLLEGE WHO BY
ALL... YOU'RE A DEMOGRAPHER...
BY ALL DEMOGRAPHIC EXPERIENCE
OUGHT TO BE A KATHLEEN WYNNE
VOTER, RIGHT? A FEMALE OF A
CERTAIN AGE, PROBABLY LIKES THE
AGENDA THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING,
AND I ASKED HER HOW THE PREMIER
IS DOING AND ALL I GOT BACK WAS
A STEADY STREAM OF NEGATIVES.
AND I'D LIKE TO KNOW... EXPLORE
IT A LITTLE MORE AND THE PERSON
REALLY COULDN'T ARTICULATE,
ESPECIALLY WELL, WHY SHE WAS
SOUR ON WYNNE AND THE GOVERNMENT
BUT SHE WAS. AND I'D LIKE TO
KNOW WHAT'S THE ONE THING YOU
WOULD SAY TO THAT PERSON TO
MAKE HER GIVE YOUR PARTY A
SECOND LOOK A YEAR FROM TONIGHT.

Deb says I WOULD SAY TAKE A LOOK AT
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. TAKE A
LOOK AT THE THINGS WE ARE DOING,
THE TRUE ACTION WE'RE TAKING TO
BUILD A FAIR ONTARIO. LOOK AT
WHAT WE'RE DOING SO MORE
STUDENTS CAN GO TO SAULT COLLEGE
BY OFFERING FREE TUITION AND
BEYOND FREE TUITION FOR MANY OF
THEM. LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE DOING
ON CHILD CARE, ON PENSION
REFORM, ON A FULL RANGE OF
ISSUES THAT MIGHT APPEAL TO HER.

Steve says AND FOR THOSE WHO SAY
YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN IN FOR TOO
LONG, IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE,
WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

Deb says WELL, CHANGE TO WHAT? AND I
THINK THAT WHEN PEOPLE ACTUALLY
SEE IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF DO
YOU LIKE KATHLEEN WYNNE OR NOT,
IT'S WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE YOUR
PREMIER? I HAVE A PRETTY STRONG
FEELING THAT WHEN THEY SEE THOSE
LEADERS THEY'LL WILL CHOOSE
KATHLEEN WYNNE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Steve Paikin, @spaikin."

Steve says THAT'S DEB MATTHEWS,
SHE'S GOT A LONG TITLE, MINISTER
OF ADVANCED EDUCATION AND SKILLS
DEVELOPMENT, MINISTER
RESPONSIBLE FOR DIGITAL
GOVERNMENT, CHAIR OF THE
CABINET, DEPUTY PREMIER,
M.P.P. LONDON NORTH CENTRE.
WE'RE NOW OUT OF TIME.
THANK YOU MINISTER MATTHEWS FOR
COMING IN TO TVO TONIGHT.

Deb says THANK YOU.

Watch: Ontario Election Preview: The Liberal Deputy Leader