Transcript: Cities in Crisis | May 15, 2017

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped red and pin tie.

A caption on screen reads "Cities in crisis. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says A DECADE AND A HALF
AGO, RICHARD FLORIDA INTRODUCED
US TO THE INFLUENTIAL IDEA OF A
CREATIVE CLASS, WHICH HE SAW AS
A DRIVING FORCE, REVITALIZING
AND RESHAPING CITIES.
IN THE INTERVENING YEARS, THE
ECONOMIC GEOGRAPHY OF CITIES
ACROSS NORTH AMERICA HAS
CERTAINLY CHANGED, BUT AS HE
ARGUES IN HIS NEW BOOK, IT
HASN'T ALL BEEN POSITIVE.
THE BOOK IS CALLED: "THE NEW
URBAN CRISIS: HOW OUR CITIES ARE
INCREASING INEQUALITY, DEEPENING
SEGREGATION, AND FAILING THE
MIDDLE CLASS - AND WHAT WE CAN
DO ABOUT IT."

A picture of the book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a drawing of a towering city skyline shattered as if it were made of glass.

Steve continues AND IT BRINGS RICHARD FLORIDA BACK TO OUR STUDIO TONIGHT.

Richard is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and black tie.

Steve continues HI.
I MUST CONFESS, THIS IS NOT THE
FOLLOW-UP TO THE LAST BOOK THAT
I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO READ.
THINGS ARE JUST VERY, VERY DARK
AND GLOOMY HERE.
RICHARD, BEFORE WE GET INTO THE
NEW URBAN CRISIS, LET'S JUST,
FOR BACKGROUND PURPOSES,
ESTABLISH, WHAT WAS THE OLD URBAN CRISIS?

The caption changes to "Richard Florida. Martin Prosperity Institute."
Then, it changes again to "The dark side of urban renewal."

Richard says THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.
I SAY IN THE BOOK I WAS BORN IN
1957, A WHOLE LONG TIME AGO, AND
AS A KID, I WITNESSED IT.
YOU KNOW, I'M FROM NORTH NEW
JERSEY ORIGINALLY AND I TELL THE
STORY OF MY DAD.
HE WANTED... A FACTORY WORKER.
WANTED ME BOTH TO GO TO MY
GUITAR LESSON AND TO GO TO THE
NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY.
ON A SATURDAY IN JULY HE WAS
DRIVING US THROUGH NEWARK TO THE
LIBRARY AND MY GUITAR LESSON,
AND SHOTS RANG OUT.

Steve says HE TOLD YOU TO HIT THE DECK.

Richard says IT WAS AN OLD CHEVY, LATE
1950s OR EARLY 1960s BELAIR
OR IMPALA, AND I GOT ON THE
FLOOR.
YOU COULD SEE TANKS, NATIONAL
GUARDS PEOPLE, AND I THINK I SAW
IN THAT INSTANT THE OLD URBAN
CRISIS WHICH LATER I HAD COME TO
UNDERSTAND WAS REALLY THE FLIGHT
OF JOBS, THE FLIGHT OF INDUSTRY.
MY FATHER'S FACTORY, WHERE HE
WORKED, VICTORY OPTICAL IN THE
IRON-BOUND INDUSTRIAL SECTION,
CLOSED DOWN.
THE DEPARTMENT STORES WE USED TO
GO TO AS A KID... GREAT AMERICAN
DEPARTMENT STORES, HANES, EMPTY
EMPTIED OF ITS MIDDLE CLASS.
WHEN I WAS GRADUATING HIGH
SCHOOL LITERALLY THAT YEAR, NEW
YORK CITY, THE CITY I WOULD WALK
UP IN OUR HOMETOWN, WE MOVED TO
A SUBURB IN NORTH ARLINGTON THAT
OVERLOOKED NEW YORK CITY, NEW
YORK CITY DECLARED BANKRUPTCY.
THAT WAS THE OLD URBAN CRISIS, A
CRISIS OF DYSFUNCTION AND
ECONOMIC DECAY.

Steve says FORTUNATELY FOR YOU
HAVE LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO SEE
MANY OF THOSE AMERICAN CITIES
COME BACK, INCLUDING ONE YOU HAD
A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH,
PITTSBURGH, IT IS BACK, IT IS
BEAUTIFUL.
YOU HAVE BEEN IN TORONTO FOR IS
IT A DECADE NOW ALMOST?

Richard says EXACTLY A DECADE.

Steve says IF YOU DON'T MIND MY
SAYING, IT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
CITIES IN THE WORLD.
HOWEVER, FOR THIS BOOK, YOU HAVE
HAD TO REVISIT SOME OF YOUR OLD
ASSUMPTIONS AND YOU WRITE: I
FOUND MYSELF CONFRONTING THE
DARK SIDE OF THE URBAN REVIVAL I
HAD ONCE CHAMPIONED AND
CELEBRATED.
HOW SO?

Richard says THE RISE OF THE CREATIVE
CLASS REALLY WAS A PRODUCT OF MY
SEEING AS A GRADUATE STUDENT...
I WENT TO COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY...
SEEING THE REVIVAL OF NEW YORK
CITY IN THE '80s WITH
MUSICIANS AND ARTISTS AND
DESIGNERS AND PEOPLE, ALL PUNKS
AND HIPPIES AND BOHEMIANS IN THE
SOHO AREA AND GREENWICH VILLAGE.
AND I MOVED TO PITTSBURGH,
CARNEGIE MELLON, WHERE GOING
RECRUITS ITS PEOPLE FROM, LIKE
OUR OWN WATERLOO BUT EVEN
PROBABLY BIGGER AND IT HAD ALL
OF THESE GREAT SOFTWARE
DEVELOPERS AND COMPUTER
SCIENTISTS AND FACULTY MEMBERS
WERE GOING TO RUN LABORATORIES
AT Facebook AND GOOGLE.
THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WANTED TO GO
TO SAN FRANCISCO OR NEW YORK OR
BOSTON AND REALLY MY BOOK ABOUT
THE CREATIVE CLASS WAS HOW
CITIES COULD TRY TO POSITION
THEMSELVES TO ATTRACT THESE
PEOPLE.
BUT IN THE INTERVENING 15 YEARS,
I THINK THINGS HAVE CHANGED A
LOT.

Steve says GIVEN THE WAY IT'S
TURNED OUT, DO YOU THINK YOU
WERE WRONG THE WAY YOU
POSITIONED IT BEFORE?

Richard says I THINK I WAS ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT.
PEOPLE ASKED ME THIS.
I THINK I UNDER PREDICTED THE
URBAN REVIVAL.
THAT WAS WHAT I WAS WRONG ABOUT.
I WAS SO OPTIMISTIC THAT CITIES
LIKE PITTSBURGH OR DETROIT OR
CLEVELAND WOULD COME BACK.
THINK ABOUT TORONTO TWO DECADES
AGO.
IT WAS A GOOD CITY.
BUT IT WASN'T THIS KIND OF
MASSIVE URBAN REVIVAL WITH
SKYROCKETING HOUSING PRICES AND
DIVIDING... IT WAS A DIFFERENT
TOWN.
SO I THINK I UNDER PREDICTED THE
URBAN REVIVAL AND I THINK I WAS
QUITE SHOCKED AT HOW FAST IT
CAME ON, HOW BIG IT WAS, AND
MANY OF THE CHALLENGES AND
DIVISIONS IT BROUGHT WITH IT,
AND SO THAT'S WHERE I BEGAN TO
RETROSPECT AND INTRO SUSPECT AND
SAY, OH, MY GOD, THIS REVIVAL
THAT I WAS OPTIMISTIC ABOUT,
YES, IT BROUGHT MANY GOOD
THINGS, IT HELPED MANY CITIES
COME BACK, AND BROUGHT BACK
TALENTED PEOPLE AND BROUGHT BACK
MANY DECLINING NEIGHBOURHOODS
BUT IT HAD BROUGHT A NEW SET OF
CHALLENGES THAT I HAD NOT
ANTICIPATED THAT I NEEDED TO DIG
INTO AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT.

Steve says HOW INFLUENTIAL WAS
LIVING IN TORONTO OVER THE PAST
DECADE TO YOUR NEW WAY OF
LOOKING AT THINGS?

Richard says I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT
BEFORE WRITING THIS BOOK.
MY EXPERIENCE IN NEWARK, NEW
JERSEY, AND GOING TO GRADUATE
SCHOOL IN NEW YORK CITY AND
SEEING URBAN DECLINE TURN TO
URBAN REVIVAL, THE DEATH AND
LIFE OF GREAT AMERICAN CITIES TO
QUOTE JANE JACOBS.
IF THE RISE OF THE CREATIVE
CLASS WAS SHAPED BY MY
EXPERIENCE IN PITTSBURGH, A
FANTASTIC INDUSTRIAL CITY THAT
WAS CREATING TALENT AND SEEING
IT MOVE AWAY, THIS BOOK IS A
PRODUCT OF TORONTO.
I MOVED HERE, AND YOU REMEMBER,
BECAUSE WE MET VERY EARLY ON AND
YOU WERE GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO HAVE
ME ON YOUR SHOW BACK THEN.
I WAS SO EXCITED TO COME TO JANE
JACOBS' TORONTO, A CITY I
STUDIED.
NEW YORK RUN BY THE SWISS.
YOU KNOW THE CLICHÉS.
THE CITY, STILL AMERICANS
BELIEVE, DOES IT RIGHT.
WE KNOW OUR WARDS BUT
ESSENTIALLY AMERICAN URBANISTS
PUT TORONTO ON A PEDESTAL.
AND I WAS TALKING TO MAYOR
MILLER AND COUNCILLOR RAY,
MAKING TORONTO A MORE INCLUSIVE
CITY AND INTO THE VOID COMES ROB
FORD.
IT REALLY WAS THE FORD ELECTION
THAT WAS MY BIG WAKE-UP CALL.

Steve says THAT SPEAKS TO THE
NEXT QUOTE I WANT TO PUT FORWARD HERE.
YOU ARE SAYING...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "The central crisis of our time." The quote reads "All three –Trump, Ford, and Brexit- reflect the deepening fault lines of class and location that define and divide us today.
They are the product of our new age of winner-take-all urbanism, in which the talented and the advantaged cluster and colonize a small, select group of superstar cities, leaving everybody and everywhere else behind. Much more than a crisis of cities, the New Urban Crisis is the central crisis of our time."
Quoted from Richard Florida, "The new urban crisis." 2017.

Steve says LET'S ELABORATE ON THAT.
TRUMP, FORD, BREXIT... THE
PRODUCT OF THIS URBAN CRISIS?
HOW SO?

Richard says I REMEMBER WHEN ROB FORD GOT
ELECTED.
I SAID, I WROTE, NOT ONLY WAS
HE, TO MY MIND, AN ANTIURBAN
MAYOR, BUT IF HE COULD GET
ELECTED IN TORONTO, MORE AND
WORSE WOULD FOLLOW.
AND BY THE WAY, FORD WAS A VERY
BENIGN KIND OF POPULISM.
HE HAD HIS OWN PERSONAL
PROBLEMS.
BUT HE WASN'T A BAD, EVIL PERSON
AND HE HAD A MULTI-ETHNIC,
MULTICULTURAL COALITION: ASIAN,
IMMIGRANT, NEW CANADIAN,
CARIBBEAN, AND WHITE WORKING
CLASS.
I THINK WHAT FOLLOWED, AND THEN
I SAID, WELL, BREXIT, OKAY, I
UNDERSTAND THAT.
AMERICA WILL NEVER ELECT TRUMP.
AND WHEN TRUMP WAS ELECTED, I
LITERALLY REWROTE THIS BOOK FROM
TOP TO BOTTOM.
BUT I THINK THEY REALLY REFLECT
ONE DIMENSION OF THE NEW URBAN
CRISIS, WHICH IS THIS INCREASING
GEOGRAPHIC DIVIDE.
YOU KNOW, LOTS OF PEOPLE, LOTS
OF VERY SMART PEOPLE HAVE TALKED
ABOUT ECONOMIC INEQUALITY AND
INCOME INEQUALITY.
THIS BOOK IS ABOUT GEOGRAPHIC
INEQUALITY OR SPATIAL
INEQUALITY.
YOU KNOW, IT'S BAD IN CANADA.
TORONTO IS MUCH MORE
ECONOMICALLY ADVANTAGED THAN
HAMILTON OR WINDSOR.
BUT IN THE UNITED STATES, THE
LEVEL OF GEOGRAPHIC INEQUALITY,
FROM THESE, WHAT I CALL THE
SUPERSTAR CITIES, LIKE A NEW
YORK CITY OR THE KNOWLEDGE HUB
LIKE SAN FRANCISCO OR D.C.,
COMPARE THEM, NOT JUST TO
DETROIT AND CLEVELAND AND MY OWN
PITTSBURGH, BUT THEN COMPARE
THEM TO DAYTON AND AKRON AND
THESE FALTERING TOWNS ALL
THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.
I HAVE A CHART THAT EXEMPLIFIES
WINNER-TAKE-ALL URBANISM.
HOW MANY HOUSES CAN YOU BUY FOR
THE PRICE OF A CONDO IN SOHO.
A HUNDRED HOUSES IN PARTS OF
YOUNGSTOWN.
SO THIS DIVIDE... WHAT HAPPENED,
THE SAME THING WOULD HAPPEN WITH
FORD HERE.
THERE WAS THIS REACTION AGAINST
THE SO-CALLED URBAN ELITES,
SO-CALLED URBAN COSMOPOLITANS,
AND THIS BACKLASH OF URBANISM
COMPLETED THE VOID.

Steve says HERE ARE A COUPLE OF
THEM, YOU TALK ABOUT THE
SUPERSTAR CITIES, AND I WANT TO
ADVANCE A DIFFERENT KIND OF
POINT HERE RATHER THAN THE ONE
YOU JUST MADE.
SHELDON, LET'S SHOW THIS.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Share of national economic output. Canadian cities."

On the slate, a bar chart shows that Toronto contributes over 17 percent, Montreal almost 10, and Vancouver almost 7.

Steve reads data from the slate and says
OKAY, WE'VE GOT THIS.
THIS IS THE SHARE OF CANADA'S
ECONOMIC OUTPUT BY CITY.
YOU SEE TORONTO NUMBER ONE
THERE, OF COURSE, BIG ECONOMIC
ENGINE, ALMOST 20 percent.
YOU ADD UP THOSE TOP FIVE
CITIES, THAT'S ALMOST HALF THE
ECONOMIC OUTPUT OF THE ENTIRE
COUNTRY IN THOSE FIVE CITIES.
LET'S COMPARE THAT TO THE UNITED STATES.

A new chart shows the top 5 American cities: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, and Washington D.C.

Steve says YOU'VE GOT NEW YORK CITY, THE
NUMBER ONE CITY, WELL BELOW 10 percent,
L.A. OVER 5, CHICAGO OVER 3.5,
HOUSTON NOT QUITE 3, WASHINGTON,
D.C. NOT QUITE 3.
SO THE TOP 5 ONLY REPRESENT A
QUARTER OF THE ECONOMIC OUTPUT
OF THE UNITED STATES.
SO MY QUESTION IS: WHY IS THE
CONCENTRATION OF ALL OF THAT
ECONOMIC OUTPUT IN OUR FIVE MAIN
CITIES, AND REPRESENTING SO MUCH
MORE A PART OF OUR ECONOMY, WHY
IS THAT CONCERNING TO YOU?

The caption changes to "Winner takes all."

Richard says WELL, I THINK CANADA IS
ACTUALLY MORE NEAR THE NORM AND
THE U.S. IS AN OUTLIER.
THE U.S. CAME OUT OF WORLD WAR
II A HEGEMONIC POWER, IT REALLY
DOMINATED THE WORLD.
IT COULD HAVE THIS MASSIVE
SUBURBANIZATION.
I MET JANE JACOBS AND SHE SAID
SOMETHING, SHE SAID, YOU KNOW,
CANADA HAS, IN JANE'S WAY,
THREE, MAYBE FIVE SIGNIFICANT
CITIES.
SHE WASN'T TRYING TO BE MEAN TO
CANADA.
SHE WAS SORT OF SAYING, THE
U.S., RICHARD, THERE ARE ALL
THESE SECOND AND THIRD-TIER
PLACES AND IT'S A BIGGER PLACE
AND THERE'S AUSTIN AND NASHVILLE
AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT PLACES.
CANADA IS MORE NORMAL.
I ACTUALLY HAVE A CHART
SOMEWHERE AT THE MARTIN PRESS
BERRY INSTITUTE OR THE BLOG
WHERE I WRITE AT CITY LAB WHICH
COMPARED COUNTRIES BY SHARE OF
ECONOMIC OUTPUT IN THEIR MAJOR
METROS.
THE U.S. IS VERY LOW.
CANADA IS IN THE MIDDLE, ABOUT
NORMAL.
AND KOREA, SOUTH KOREA, SEOUL,
ONE METRO PRODUCES MORE THAN 50 percent
OF ALL ECONOMIC OUTPUT.
REALLY THE BOOK IS ABOUT THIS
JANUS PHASE, TWO-HEADED FORCE
CALLED THE CLUSTERING FORCE.
FOLLOWING JANE JACOBS' LEAD,
IT'S NOT GREAT LABORATORIES OR
GREAT STARTUP OR TECH COMPANIES
THAT DRIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH, IT'S
NOT JUST THE ACCUMULATION OF
TALENT, HIGHLY EDUCATED PEOPLE,
IT'S THE CLUSTERING OF ALL OF
THAT INTO CITIES, TALENT AND
PEOPLE AND DIVERSITY AND
INFORMATION AND KNOWLEDGE AND
UNIVERSITIES AND COMPANIES.
AND SO THAT DRIVES ECONOMIC
GROWTH.
SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT PEOPLE
CLUSTER IN TORONTO AND VANCOUVER
OR SAN FRANCISCO.
THE DOWNSIDE OF THAT, OF COURSE,
IS THAT THAT VERY SAME
CLUSTERING FORCE, THE FLIPSIDE,
THE DARK SIDE, IS IT CARVES THE
DIVIDES BOTH BETWEEN
METROPOLITAN AREAS AND WITHIN
THEM THAT REALLY STANDS AT THE
HEART OF THE NEW URBAN CRISIS.

Steve says IF THOSE SUPER CITIES
ARE THE WINNERS, WHO ARE THE LOSERS?

Richard says I THINK THE LOSERS ARE THE
PLACES THAT ARE FALLING FURTHER
AND FURTHER BEHIND AS THEIR
KIDS, YOU KNOW, FROM ACROSS
CANADA, MOVE TO TORONTO OR MAYBE
VANCOUVER, AS THEIR KIDS MOVE TO
NEW YORK.
YOU SEE THAT LESS HERE BECAUSE
CANADA STILL HAS... YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE OUR... WE HAVE SOME LEVEL
OF SOCIAL COHESION, WE HAVE
HEALTH CARE, WE HAVE GOOD
SCHOOLS IN THE URBAN CORE, IN
CONTRAST TO THE UNITED STATES.
YOU SEE IT MORE IN THE UNITED
STATES BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE
INCREDIBLY ANXIOUS, YOU KNOW,
THOSE FORMER WORKING CLASS
TOWNS, THOSE OLD RURAL AREAS IN
THE MID WEST ESPECIALLY, THE
PLACES THAT SWUNG FOR TRUMP.
PEOPLE ARE SCARED TO DEATH THAT
THEY'RE BEING LEFT BEHIND.
YOU KNOW, I'VE STUDIED THIS IN
GREAT DETAIL.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE ECONOMIC
ANXIETY DIRECTLY.
IT REALLY IS WHAT THEY CONSIDER
TO BE AN ASSAULT ON THEIR
VALUES.
NOW, I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS.
I'M AN URBANITE.
I BELIEVE IN DIVERSITY AND
OPENNESS AND ALL THE THINGS I
BELIEVE TORONTO OR OTHER GREAT
CITIES STAND FOR.
BUT MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING
LEFT BEHIND, WHO COULDN'T MOVE,
DON'T WANT TO MOVE, FEEL LIKE
THERE'S AN ASSAULT ON FAMILY
VALUES THAT THESE NEW URBAN
VALUES ARE NOT THE TRADITIONAL
VALUES THAT THEY GREW UP WITH.
THAT'S NOT JUST IN THE UNITED
STATES, THAT'S NOT JUST IN
CANADA... YOU SEE THAT ALL
THROUGHOUT EUROPE.
SO THAT'S THE DIVIDE WE'RE
FACING, AS THESE SUPERSTAR
CITIES AND KNOWLEDGE CLUSTERS,
TECH HUBS, ATTRACT PEOPLE,
DEVELOP THESE ROBUST ECONOMIES,
BECOME VERY INNOVATIVE, THE REST
OF THESE COUNTRIES, THE REST OF
THE HEARTLAND GET ANGRIER AND
ANGRIER, NOT ONLY AT THEIR
ECONOMIC SUCCESS, EVEN MORE SO
AT THE VALUES THAT THEY ESPOUSE.

Steve says LET'S PURSUE THIS
NOTION OF KIND OF SUPERSTAR
CITIES AS ALMOST PRIVATE CLUBS
IN A WAY.
SHELDON, BRING UP THIS NEXT
GRAPHIC, IF YOU WILL.
HERE'S THE HIGHEST HOUSING
PRICES WORLD WIDE.
I MEAN, LOOK WHERE...

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Median house price to median household income."

A bar chart shows Hong Kong is number 1, with 18 times; Sydney second, with 12 times, and Vancouver third, with 12 times."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
VANCOUVER'S NO. 3 ON THIS LIST.
TORONTO IS NO. 7 ON THIS LIST.
WE TALK ABOUT MEDIAN HOUSE PRICE
TO MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME.
YOU SEE THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT
RIGHT THERE.
EVEN Montréal COMES IN AT NO. 11
ON THIS LIST.
THE SUGGESTION, I GUESS, HERE
BEING THAT CERTAIN CITIES ARE
BECOMING, YOU KNOW, IN SOME
RESPECTS A LUXURY THAT ONLY THE
RICHEST PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN.
IS THAT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO YOU?

The caption changes to "Richard Florida, @Richard_Florida."
Then, it changes again to "A luxury of the elites?"

Richard says WE'RE LIVING IT HERE IN
TORONTO.
THAT WAS REALLY STRIKING TO ME
WHEN WE CAME ACROSS THESE DATA,
WHICH IS QUITE RIGHT, BECAUSE
YOU CAN COMPARE CITIES ACROSS
THE WORLD.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MEDIAN
HOUSING PRICE IN THAT CITY, IN
THAT CURRENCY, COMPARED TO THE
MEDIAN INCOME.
NOW, OF COURSE, A FLAT IN LONDON
COSTS WAY MORE THAN A FLAT IN
TORONTO AND EVEN VANCOUVER.
A TOWNHOUSE IN NEW YORK, YOU
KNOW, IT'S 10, 20, $50 MILLION,
WHO KNOWS, EVEN MORE, BUT THE
INCOMES ARE HIGHER.
VANCOUVER'S INCOMES ARE LOWER.
IN FACT, PEOPLE NOW ARE SAYING,
WHERE IS THIS MONEY COMING FROM?
BECAUSE THE INCOMES IN VANCOUVER
CAN'T SUPPORT THEM.
SO AS YOU'VE SAID, VANCOUVER IS,
ON THIS BASIS, THE THIRD MOST...
I THINK IT'S ONLY HONG KONG AND
SYDNEY ARE MORE EXPENSIVE,
TORONTO IS NINTH AND AS
EXPENSIVE AS METROPOLITAN NEW YORK.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, Instagram."

Steve says TORONTO IS NO. 7,
Montréal IS NO. 11.

Richard says IT'S TERRIFYING.
IN THIS REPORT, THEY TALK ABOUT
HOW CANADA IS ONE OF THE MOST
UNAFFORDABLE PLACES IN THE
WORLD.
I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT
STATISTICS AT MY FINGERTIPS, BUT
MANY OF OUR SMALL AND MEDIAN
SIZE COMMUNITIES, METROS,
COMPARED TO THEIR PEERS, ARE
ALSO QUITE UNAFFORDABLE.
I THINK IT MEANS WE ARE
TRYING... WELL, WE KNOW THIS.
80 percent OF OUR POPULATION LIVES IN
2 percent OF OUR LAND AREA.
WE'RE A VERY URBAN COUNTRY.
BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GENERATE
ECONOMIC GROWTH AND
PRODUCTIVITY.
WE PACKED OUR POPULATION IN
THESE CITIES.
PLUS, ADD TO THIS... YOU KNOW,
ONE OF THE GREATEST THINGS ABOUT
CANADA, THEY ACCEPTED A PERSON
LIKE ME, I'M A NEW CANADIAN.
MY KIDS ARE CANADIAN CITIZENS.
THEY'VE ACCEPTED... WHAT, 50 percent OF
OUR POPULATION IN TORONTO CAME
FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY.
WE'VE BEEN VERY ACCEPTING OF
REFUGEES, SYRIAN REFUGEES.
SO ADD THAT PRESSURE, YOU TAKE
THE DOMESTIC MIGRATION TO THESE
HUBS AND SUPERSTAR CITIES, ADD
THE INTERNATIONAL MIGRATION, AND
WE PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON OUR
HOUSING MARKET.
NOW, WE BUILD A LOT.
WE HAVE A LOT OF CRANES IN THE
SKY.
TO AMERICANS IT'S REALLY AN ENVY
TO AMERICAN URBANISTS, WOW, LOOK
AT THOSE HUNDRED AND SOME CRANES
IN TORONTO.
AS MUCH AS WE BUILD, WE CAN'T KEEP UP.

Steve says WELL THAT IS TRUE
'CAUSE WE GOT A 150,000 MORE
PEOPLE COMING HERE EVERY YEAR
SO I GUESS ONE OF THE...
LET'S LOOK INTO SOME OF THAT
WE WANT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT
WHY PRICES ARE SO HIGH.
NIMBYISM, WHAT ROLE DOES THAT
PLAY? NOT IN MY BACK YARD.
DON'T BUILD THAT IN MY BACKYARD.
WHAT ROLE DOES THAT PLAY
IN THE HIGH COST OF HOUSING?

Richard says WELL AT THE RISK AT GETTING
MYSELF KILLED BY MY FELLOW
URBANITE PEERS IN TORONTO
I FELT THIS AND I TALK ABOUT
THIS IN THE BOOK. I WROTE IT
KIND OF THOUGHT EXPERIMENT
IN ONE OF OUR PAPERS, SAYING
LOOK, I UNDERSTAND ALL THE
DEBATE ABOUT THE ISLAND AIRPORT
BUT WHAT IF WE WERE TO CONSIDER
JETS. NOT SAYING MAKE JETS GO IN
THE AIRPORT, BUT WHAT IF WE
WERE TO CONSIDER THAT IN BALANCE
TAKE THE COST TO OUR QUALITY
OF LIFE AGAINST THE ADDED VALUE
OF CONNECTION, AND THERE IS A
RESEARCH LITERATURE THAT SHOWS
HAVING TWO GREAT AIRPORTS, LIKE
LA GUARDIA AND JFK, ACTUALLY
THREE, JFK AND NEWARK.
IT'S ADDITIVE.
WELL MY GOD. PEOPLE THOUGHT I...
I WAS HERETICAL AND...

Steve says THEY'LL THROW YOU OUT
OF THE CLUB FOR THAT ONE.

Richard says I WAS ALMOST... BUT I
REDEEMED MYSELF.
NOW I HAD DONE ENOUGH GOOD THAT
I WAS ALLOWED BACK IN THE CLUB.
BUT THE POINT IN THIS BOOK I
THINK, AND THAT'S AN EXTREME
EXAMPLE, BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF
NIMBY BEHAVIOUR, THAT'S CALLED
THE 'NOT IN MY BACK YARD'
SYNDROME. AND WHAT PEOPLE DO IS
THAT IF THEY HAVE A GOOD QUALITY
OF LIFE, RIGHT? IF I LIVE
IN A LOVELY NEIGHBOURHOOD WITH
SINGLE FAMILY HOMES OR LOW RISE
BUILDINGS, I DON'T WANT A... A
NEW HIGH-RISE TOWER BECAUSE IT'S
GONNA IN... RUIN MY
NEIGHBOURHOOD'S CHARACTER.
IT'S A BIG THING, THAT
NEIGHBOURHOOD CHARACTER. WELL
IN THE BOOK I SAY, THAT'S NOT
ONLY NIMBYISM, AND IT MAY BE
WELL INTENTIONED, IF THE SOURCE
OF ECONOMIC PRODUCTIVITY, OF
INNOVATION, OF ECONOMIC GROWTH
OF JOB GENERATION, IS STRONG
CLUSTERED DENSE AFFORDABLE
CITIES HOLDING BACK THE HOUSING
DEVELOPMENT WE NEED THROUGH
NIMBY BEHAVIOR, ONEROUS OLD
SCHOOL LAND USE RESTRICTIONS
BUILDING CODES. I CALL THEM
THE NEW URBAN LUDDITES.
PEOPLE LIKE THIS TERM BECAUSE
LIKE THE LUDDITES WERE VERY
CONCERNED THAT THE NEW FACTORIES
AND MACHINES WOULD COST THEM
THEIR JOBS IN ENGLAND, AND
SMASHED THE MACHINES. IN A WAY
NIMBY BEHAVIOR KIND OF DESTROYED
THE CLUSTERING, OR LIMITS THE
CLUSTERING WE NEED TO SCALE OUR
CITIES AND BECOME MORE
INNOVATIVE. ACCORDING TO ONE
STUDY IN THE U.S., NOW THESE ARE
THEORISTIC NUMBERS AND BIG
ESTIMATES. BUT THAT THE LAND
USE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE IN
THE U.S. IN PLACES LIKE BOSTON
AND NEW YORK AND SAN FRANCISCO
COST THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY
ABOUT 9 percent OF GDP A YEAR.
SOMETHING LIKE ONE AND A HALF
TO TWO TRILLION DOLLARS IN LOST
ECONOMIC OUTPUT PER YEAR. SO...
SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED
TO THINK ABOUT. NOW AGAIN IN
TORONTO WE... WE'RE DOING A LOT
TO BUILD AND WE'RE REVAMPING
OUR BUILDING ZONING CODES
BUT WE COULD DO MORE.

Steve says HERE IS DAVID BYRNE,
THE MUSICIAN, WRITING EARLIER THIS YEAR...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Creative bloodletting." The quote reads "If the 1 percent stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here. Most of Manhattan and many parts of Brooklyn are virtual walled communities, pleasure domes for the rich. Middle-class people can barely afford to live here anymore, so forget about emerging artists, musicians, actors, dancers, writers, journalists, and small business people. Bit by bit, the resources that keep the city vibrant are being eliminated."
David Byrne, as quoted in "The new urban crisis." 2017.

Steve says IS DAVID RIGHT?

Richard says WELL, FIRST OF ALL, "THE
TALKING HEADS" WERE MY FAVOURITE BAND.
THEY WERE A BAND THAT CAME ON
WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE AND
REALLY, TO ME, TYPIFIED NOT ONLY
A FEW SOUND, BUT WHEN I WAS
EXPLORING THOSE NEIGHBOURHOODS,
SOHO AND THE VILLAGE IN TRIBECA,
THEY WERE THE GROUP.
I ADORE DAVID BYRNE.
I'M OF TWO MINDS ON THIS.
CLEARLY I'M A NEW YORKER, I
SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN NEW YORK,
I HAVE A VISITING FELLOWSHIP AT
NYU.
IT'S A DIFFERENT CITY.
AGAIN, I'M A MANHATTANITE.
I GREW UP IN NEW JERSEY.
YOU DON'T FEEL THE ENERGY.
SOHO DOES SOMETIMES FEEL LIKE A
LUXURY MALL.
I DON'T GO NEAR TRUMP TOWER FOR
A WHOLE BUNCH OF REASONS BUT
NEVER MIND THE AREA NEAR CENTRAL
PARK OR THE UPPER EAST SIDE
WHICH ARE REALLY COLONIZED BY
THE GLOBAL SUPERRICH.
ACCORDING TO THE DATA IN THIS
BOOK, WHEN WE REALLY LOOK HARD
AT HOW CREATIVE NEW YORK IS, HOW
MUCH MUSIC, FASHION DESIGN,
WRITING... IT MAY BE A
NEIGHBOURHOOD EFFECT, IT MAY BE
PARTS OF MANHATTAN HAVE BEEN
SQUASHED OUT A LITTLE, MAYBE
IT'S MIGRATED TO NEW YORK OR THE
BRONX, TO QUEENS WHERE YOUNGER
PEOPLE ARE GOING, YOU CAN'T YET
FIND A DISCERNIBLE DIMINUTION OF
ENERGY.
I WORRY NOW, IF THIS CONTINUES
FOR AN EXTENDED LENGTH OF TIME
AND ONE OTHER THING I POINT OUT
IN THE BOOK, IT'S SO FUNNY, AS A
KID WHO GREW UP ON THE EAST
COAST, I DON'T WANT TO SAY I WAS
ANTI-L.A., BUT I THOUGHT OF IT
AS AN EXAMPLE OF SPRAWL AND
SPREAD OUT.
L.A. HAS ACTUALLY BEEN
ATTRACTING MEMBERS OF THE
CREATIVE INNOVATIVE CLASS FROM
NEW YORK AND ACTUALLY THE MORE
YOU TALK TO NEW YORKERS AND
THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, L.A.,
HOUSING IS MORE AFFORDABLE.
WE'VE SEEN A MIGRATION OF
ARTISTS TO BIG LOFT BUILDINGS IN
DOWNTOWN L.A.
IT'S VERY INTERESTING.
BYRNE MAY BE A LITTLE BIT
OVERSTATING IT BUT I THINK HE
HAS HIS FINGER ON A TROUBLING TREND.

Steve says HOW ABOUT
GENTRIFICATION, WHAT ROLE DOES IT PLAY?

The caption changes to "The gentry is coming!"

Richard says I HAVE A WHOLE CHAPTER ON
GENTRIFICATION.
IT IS AN EMOTIONALLY CHARGED
ISSUE.
I CAN'T EMPTY IT OF ITS
EMOTIONAL CHARGE BUT AT LEAST I
CAN TRY TO BE OBJECTIVE.
MANY OF US FEEL GUILTY WHEN WE
MOVE TO AN URBAN NEIGHBOURHOOD
AND WE MOVE IN AND PEOPLE GET
DISPLACED.
HERE'S WHAT WE KNOW: FIRST OF
ALL, GENTRIFICATION UP UNTIL
VERY RECENTLY HAS BEEN SOMETHING
THAT ONLY A RELATIVELY SMALL
NUMBER OF CITIES HAVE SEEN IN
GREAT MASS.
LONDON, OF COURSE, WHERE RUTH
GLASS, AN CONTEMPORARY OF JANE
JACOBS, OF COURSE NEW YORK AND
LOWER MANHATTAN, BOSTON AROUND
BEACON HILL AND BACK BAY,
SAN FRANCISCO, PHILADELPHIA
AROUND SOCIETY HILL, WASHINGTON,
D.C. AND A FEW OTHER PLACES.

Steve says WELL, THE CITY YOU'RE IN.

Richard says TORONTO... BUT REMEMBER,
GENTRIFICATION IN TORONTO.
I REMEMBER COMING AND SEEING THE
ANNEX WHEN IT WAS GENTRIFYING.
CABBAGE TOWN... BUT IT WASN'T
PERVASIVE.
DON'T GET ME WRONG.
EVEN IN A SUPERSTAR CITY... BY
THE WAY, I CONSIDER TORONTO TO
BE MORE OF A MINI SUPERSTAR
CITY.
ITS ECONOMY LOOKS MORE TO ME
LIKE NEW YORK OR LONDON THAN
CHICAGO.
IT REALLY A FINANCE, MEDIA,
TECHNOLOGY HUB.
BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPECTACULAR
RESEARCH OF MY COLLEAGUE, NATE
SNOW THAT WE RECRUITED FROM
BROWN UNIVERSITY, THE UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO, THIS BACK-TO-THE
CITY MOVEMENT GOES BONKERS,
BERSERK FROM 2000 TO NOW.
THAT'S WHEN WE SEE
GENTRIFICATION HIT A PITTSBURGH,
A DETROIT.
NOW, IT'S STILL NOT PERVASIVE IN
THOSE PLACES.
AND ONE THING I TALK ABOUT,
THERE'S SO MUCH FOCUS ON DIRECT
DISPLACEMENT.
THAT'S NOT THE REAL EFFECT.
IT'S REALLY AS HOUSING PRICES
RISE GENERALLY, PEOPLE GET
PUSHED OUT.
THE STATISTIC I FIND MOST
ILLUMINATING FROM AN ECONOMIST,
IT'S THE TOP 10 percent INCOME EARNERS,
THE AFFLUENT AND EDUCATED THAT
MOVE BACK TO CITIES AND THE
BOTTOM 10 percent OF INCOME EARNERS
THAT HAVE BEEN PUSHED OUT.
GENTRIFICATION, CLASSIC
GENTRIFICATION, OUTSIDE OF A FEW
EXAMPLES LIKE HARLEM AND BEDFORD
IN NEW YORK, IT TAKES PLACE IN
OLD INDUSTRIAL ZONES, LIKE THE
MEAT PACKING DISTRICT, CHELSEA,
WHITE WORKING CLASS
NEIGHBOURHOODS.
THE BIGGER DISTRESSING FACT WHEN
YOU LOOK AT BLACK NEIGHBOURHOODS
ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES,
WITH THE FEW EXCEPTIONS THAT
EVERYONE CAN POINT TO, THEY'VE
REMAINED UNTRANSFORMED, THEY'VE
REMAINED POOR AND IN FACT
CONCENTRATED RACIAL POVERTY HAS
GROWN.
IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE BUT I
THINK I WANT TO PUT THE FOCUS
WHERE THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE.
GENTRIFICATION IS IMPORTANT, BUT
THE FACT THAT WE'RE DIVIDING IS
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.

Steve says LET'S PICK UP ON THAT.
RISING INEQUALITY.
TO DO THIS, WE WANT TO TAKE A
LOOK AT SOME NUMBERS ON
INEQUALITY IN CANADIAN CITIES
AND DO SOME COMPARISONS HERE.
SHELDON, LET'S BRING THIS UP, IF WE CAN.

A slate appears on screen, showing satellite images of major cities, and data.

Steve reads data from the slate and says
ACCORDING TO A REPORT BY THE
MARTIN PROSPERITY INSTITUTE, THE
LEVEL OF INCOME INEQUALITY,
LET'S START ON THE WEST COAST.
THERE'S VANCOUVER, IN 2013 AS
MEASURED WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE
GENIE COEFFICIENT WHICH WAS 0.42.
IN CALGARY, 0.43 THE SAME AS EL
SALVADOR.
IN THE BIG SMOKE, 0.40, SAME AS
IN TURKEY.
Montréal A NOTCH LOWER AT 0.39,
THE SAME AS THAILAND.
LET'S GO TO THE OTHER COAST,
HALIFAX, .38, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY
WORSE THAN IRAN AT .37.
HOW HAS THE MIDDLE CLASS FARED
IN CANADA'S BIGGEST THREE
CITIES?
AGAIN, LET'S CHECK.
IN 1970, 66 percent OF THE POPULATION
OF TORONTO WAS MIDDLE CLASS.
IN 2005, IT WAS JUST 29 percent.
IN 1970 IN VANCOUVER, IT WAS
71 percent.
BY 2005, THE MIDDLE CLASS HAD
SHRUNK TO 53 percent.
FINALLY Montréal, 1970 IN
Montréal, 64 percent OF THE PEOPLE WERE
MIDDLE CLASS BY 2005.
THAT HAD SHRUNK TO 55 percent.
IT LOOKS LIKE THE SUCCESS OF
SUPER CITIES INEVITABLY LEADS TO
INCREASED INEQUALITY.
THAT CAN'T BE GOOD.

The caption changes to "Rising inequality."

Richard says IT'S... YOU SAID AT THE
OUTSET, IT'S THE BASIC
CONTRADICTION OF CONTEMPORARY,
WHAT I CALL URBANIZED
CAPITALISM.
IT IS CLUSTERED URBANIZED
CAPITALISM.
THOSE STATISTICS ARE FROM MY
BRILLIANT COLLEAGUES AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO THAT WE
PULLED TOGETHER IN THAT REPORT.
THE GENIE COEFFICIENT DATA IS
FROM ALAN WALKS, A LEADING
SCHOLAR.
AND THE STATISTICS ON THE
DECLINING MIDDLE ARE THE WORK OF
I THINK THE PERSON WHO HAS
INFLUENCED ME MOST AFTER JANE
JACOBS, DAVID HULCHANSKI.
MY COLLEAGUE DAVID HULCHANSKI
REALLY GAVE ME THE LENS, ALL OF
US TO UNDERSTAND THE LENS OF THE
FORD PHENOMENON.
IF THE OLD WAS THE FLIGHT OF THE
MIDDLE CLASS TO THE SUBURBS, THE
NEW URBAN CRISIS IS THE CUTTING
OUT.
THOSE NUMBERS FROM TORONTO ARE
SHOCKING AND TERRIFYING AND,
REMEMBER, THOSE NUMBERS YOU
SHOWED ARE FOR 2005 BECAUSE WE
DIDN'T HAVE A CENSUS.
CAN YOU IMAGINE WHEN THESE ARE
UPDATED TO THE YEAR 2015 OR
2016, BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THE
URBANIZATION, REURBANIZATION
HITS.
THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO GO
DOWN.
IT'S GOING TO GET MUCH WORSE.
IT REALLY IS THAT HOLE IN THE
MIDDLE, AND TO YOUR POINT, IN MY
WORK I WAS ABLE TO DO A LITTLE
BIT MORE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS
WITH MY TEAM AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO.
WHERE HAS THE MIDDLE CLASS
DECLINED THE MOST?
THE LARGEST, THE MOST
TECHNOLOGICALLY SOPHISTICATED,
THE MOST HIGHLY EDUCATED CITIES.
WHERE HAS INCOME EQUALITY RISEN
THE MOST, THIS IS THE RESEARCH
OF MY... WE HAVE A CLUSTER OF
GREAT URBANISTS AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.
THE LARGER THE METROPOLITAN
AREA, THE MORE TALENT, THE MORE
CREATIVE CLASS, THE HIGHER
INEQUALITY.
IN "THE NEW URBAN CRISIS," I SAY
THIS CRISIS OF INEQUALITY AND
SEGMENTATION AT THE MIDDLE IS
BAKED INTO THE VERY GEOGRAPHY OF
OUR SUPERSTAR CITIES AND WE HAVE
TO REALIZE THE SAME PLACES THAT
DRIVE OUR GROWTH ALSO ARE
CONTRIBUTING IF NOT CAUSING OUR DIVIDE.

Steve says I DON'T WANT THE
CLOCK TO GET TOO FAR AWAY FROM
US BEFORE WE START TO CONSIDER
SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS YOU THINK
WE NEED TO PUT INTO PLACE.
LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO
TO REVERSE THIS TREND WHICH, AS
YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT, IS BECOMING
INCREASINGLY UNEQUAL, DEEPENING
SEGREGATION, FAILING THE MIDDLE
CLASS.
HERE'S WHERE WE GET TO THE WHAT
WE CAN DO ABOUT IT PART OF THE
INTERVIEW.
INCREASED DENSITY.
MAKE HOUSING MORE AFFORDABLE.
LET'S START THERE.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ON THAT FRONT?

The caption changes to "Creating cities for all."

Richard says WE HAVE TO OVERCOME NIMBYISM.
REALLY SMART ECONOMISTS HAVE
MADE THIS POINT AND WE HAVE TO
BUILD MORE.
IF WE JUST BUILD MORE, YOU SEE
IT IN TORONTO, YOU SEE IT IN
VANCOUVER, YOU SEE IT IN NEW
YORK.
WE END UP BUILDING A LOT OF
LUXURY TOWERS FOR HIGH NETWORKED
PEOPLE WHERE THE LIGHTS ARE OFF.
NOW HOUSING HAS BECOME A
COMMODITY, A CLASS... I TALK
ABOUT THIS IN THE BOOK, A CLASS
OF ASSET TO BE TRADED LIKE
STOCKS AND BONDS AND GOLD.
YES, WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
WE ALSO HAVE TO BUILD MORE
AFFORDABLE.
HERE I THINK THAT CANADA HAS AN
ADVANTAGE BECAUSE WITH TRUMP IN
THE WHITE HOUSE, THE UNITED
STATES IS NOT GOING TO HAVE A
NATIONAL URBAN STRATEGY.
BUT WITH TRUDEAU AND WITH
PREMIER WYNNE AND WITH MAYOR
TORY AND OTHER... MAYOR NENSHI,
I CAN GO ON, CANADA HAS A SHOT
AT REALLY DEVELOPING A STRATEGY,
AND YOU SEE THE DEBATE HERE.
CAN WE GET MORE MONEY FOR SOCIAL
HOUSING, A DEBATE THAT'S NOT
HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES.
WE NEED MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IN THE OLD WORLD ARE, SUBURBS
WERE A WAY TO GET THAT: CHEAP,
CONSTRUCTED, SUBURBAN, LITTLE
HOMES LIKE MY DAD BOUGHT.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO INVENT AN
URBAN EQUIVALENT.
WE'LL HAVE TO BRING DOWN HOUSING
COSTS... AND THERE ARE MANY WAYS
TO DO IT BUT LORD KNOWS WE'RE
GOING TO NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING
FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS AND SERVICE CLASS.

Steve says YOU MAKE THE POINT
THAT ONE OF HENRY FORD'S BRIGHT
IDEAS WAS HE PAID THE WORKERS
ENOUGH SO THEY COULD BUY THE
CARS THEY WERE MAKING.
I NEED TO ASK ABOUT THE LOW WAGE
SERVICE WORK AND WHETHER OR NOT
PEOPLE WHO MAKE THOSE WAGES IN
THESE BIG CITIES CAN ACTUALLY
AFFORD TO CONTINUE TO LIVE IN THEM?

Richard says THERE WERE TWO PARTS TO THE
OLD CANADIAN DREAM.
ONE WAS AN AFFORDABLE UNIT IN
THIS CASE IN THE SUBURBS WITH A
MORTGAGE.
WE HAVE TO CREATE AN ANALOGUE OF
THAT FOR THE NEW URBAN AGE FOR
OUR DOWNTOWNS AND URBAN CORES.
THE SECOND PART WAS A GOOD JOB.
HENRY FORD AND OTHERS DECIDED
THAT THOSE MANUFACTURING WORKERS
NEEDED TO BE PAID A DECENT WAGE.
BEFORE THAT, THEY WERE PAID
BARELY A SUB CONTINUE MEN'S
WAGE.
IN CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES,
NORTHERN EUROPE, MY DAD, I TALK
ABOUT MY DAD'S STORY, HE SAID,
RICH, WHEN I STARTED AS A
FACTORY WORKER AT AGE 13 IN
NEWARK IN AN EYE GLASS FACTORY,
IT TOOK NINE OF US, YOUR SIX
AUNTS AND UNCLES PLUS ME TO MAKE
A FAMILY WAGE.
I CAME BACK FROM MY SERVICE IN
WORLD WAR II, STORMED THE
BEACHES IN NORMANDY, SAME
FACTORY.
HE DIDN'T CHANGE FACTORIES.
AS IF MY MAGIC, IT WAS A NEW
DEAL AND IT WAS THE UNIONS, AS
IF BY MAGIC THE SAME JOB THAT
TOOK NINE PEOPLE, I COULD BUY A
HOME AS ONE WAGE EARNER, HAVE
YOU TWO BOYS, CATHOLIC SCHOOL,
GET YOU INTO PUBLIC UNIVERSITY,
RUTGERS COLLEGE IN NEW JERSEY,
AND I WAS ON THE ESCALATOR.

Steve says ONE SALARY.

Richard says ONE SALARY.
THE NEXT THING I TALK ABOUT IN
THE BOOK.
WE NEED TO UPGRADE THOSE SERVICE
JOBS.
ACROSS CANADA, ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES, ACROSS THE ADVANCED
WORLD, ABOUT 20 percent OF US STILL
HAVE A JOB LIKE MY DAD.
ABOUT 5 percent OF PEOPLE WORK IN A
FACTORY.
LOTS MORE PEOPLE WORK IN
CONSTRUCTION OR WORK IN
INSTALLATION, MAINTENANCE, DRIVE
TRUCKS.
THEY HAVE A GOOD BLUE COLLAR
JOB.
THEY MIGHT MAKE 45 GRAND.
STILL NOT ENOUGH.
ABOUT A THIRD OF US WORK IN THE
KNOWLEDGE JOBS AND THE CREATIVE
CLASS JOBS AND WE'RE DOING, EVEN
IN THE EXPENSIVE CITIES, I HAVE
ALL THE DATA IN THE BOOK, WE CAN
STILL CUT IT.
WE MIGHT MAKE 80 OR 90 OR 100
GRAND, DEPENDING WHERE WE LIVE.
45 percent OF US ARE WORKING THESE LOW
WAGE, CONTINGENT, PRECARIOUS,
HIGH TURNOVER SERVICE JOBS.
RETAIL WORK, OFFICE WORK, FOOD
PREPARATION AND SERVICE WORK,
HOME HEALTH CARE AID, TAKING
CARE OF OLDER PEOPLE, OUR AGING
PARENTS, TAKING CARE OF OUR
CHILDREN.
THOSE PEOPLE MAKE 20,000 OR
30,000 TOTAL.
MAYBE WORKING MULTIPLE JOBS.
PUT THEIR HOUSING COSTS IN
THERE.
THEY'RE LEFT WITH 10 OR 15 GRAND
TO LIVE OFF OF.
IT'S LIKE A DEVELOPING COUNTRY,
THIS DIVIDE.
SO IN THE BOOK I SAY THAT ONE OF
OUR KEY THINGS IS THAT WE HAVE
TO TURN THAT 45 percent OF JOBS INTO
BETTER JOBS.

Steve says DOES THAT MEAN A
HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE?

Richard says YES.

Steve says WHERE DO YOU WANT TO PUT IT AT?

Richard says I THINK IT SHOULD BE INDEXED
TO ABOUT 50 OR 60 percent OF THE LOCAL
MEDIAN OR JUDGED ON THE COST OF LIVING.
SO IT WOULD BE HIGHER IN TORONTO
THAN HAMILTON THAN IN WINDSOR,
HIGHER IN NEW YORK OR
SAN FRANCISCO THAN BUFFALO OR
CLEVELAND.
BUT IT SHOULD REFLECT THOSE COST
OF LIVING OR PREVAILING WAGE
CONDITIONS, IN AN ADVANCED CITY,
ABOUT 15 BUCKS.
BUT THAT'S STILL NOT... THAT
JUST CREATES A FLOOR.
THE THING IS, AND ROGER MARTIN,
MY COLLEAGUE AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO BUSINESS SCHOOL DEAN,
BUSINESS SCHOOL CONSULTANT,
WE'VE REALLY BEEN WORKING ON
THIS.
WHAT WE FIND AND WHAT A GROUP OF
RESEARCHERS AT MIT FIND, JUST
LIKE WHEN YOU PAID MANUFACTURING
WORKERS BETTER AND YOU ORGANIZED
THEM IN TEAMS IN THE ADVANCED
FACTORIES LIKE WE HAVE IN
ONTARIO, THEY COULD ENGAGE IN
CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT, LEAN
MANUFACTURING, THEY COULD FORM
CIRCLES, CONTRIBUTE THEIR
INNOVATIONS, CONTRIBUTE TO
PRODUCTIVITY.
SAME THING IN A RETAIL SHOP OR A
RESTAURANT OR THE GREAT HOTELS.
WE CAN GO ON.
WHEN WORKERS ARE WORKING IN
TEAMS, WHEN THEY'RE PAID BETTER,
WHEN THEY CAN HAVE AN INTERNAL
CAREER LADDER, THEY CAN ENGAGE
THEIR CUSTOMERS BETTER, THEY CAN
CREATE INNOVATIONS AND DRIVE
PRODUCTIVITY AND PROFITS UP.
IT CAN BE, IF DONE RIGHT, A
WIN-WIN, FOR THE WORKER, AND FOR
THE COMPANY AND THE CITY ITSELF.

Steve says I HATE TO HOLD YOU
TO A MINUTE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BE
HELD TO A MINUTE.
WE'RE GOING TO TRY.
PUBLIC TRANSIT INFRASTRUCTURE.
ANOTHER KEY PART OF THE WHOLE
EQUATION, YES?

Richard says IT'S FALLING APART, EVEN IN
OUR GREAT CITIES.
LOOK AT NEW YORK, WHERE IT
DOESN'T WORK.
IN ORDER TO SCALE OUR CITIES, WE
NOT ONLY NEED TO BUILD
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE NEED TO
GROW THE CORE AND OUT.
A WAY TO BRING HAMILTON AND
WATERLOO AND ALL A PART IS TO
BUILD GREAT HIGH-SPEED
INFRASTRUCTURE AND BUILD A
STRONGER, MORE AFFORDABLE
METROPOLIS.

Steve says YOU DID IT.

Richard says I TRIED.

The caption changes to "Producer: Eric Bombicino, @ebombicino."

Steve says YOU CAME IN UNDER A MINUTE.
RICHARD, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR
COMING AND VISITING US HERE AT
TVO.
YOU ALWAYS GIVE US SO MUCH TO
THINK ABOUT.
"THE NEW URBAN CRISIS" IS YOUR
LATEST CONTRIBUTION TO WHAT YOU
SEE OUT THERE.
HOW OUR CITIES ARE INCREASING
INEQUALITY, DEEPENING
SEGREGATION, AND FAILING THE
MIDDLE CLASS AND WHAT WE CAN DO
ABOUT IT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Richard says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Watch: Cities in Crisis