Transcript: Gender and the Economy | Mar 08, 2017

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, purple shirt, and striped purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "Gender and the economy. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says IT MAY BE 2017, BUT
IT'S STILL THE CASE THAT
CANADIAN WOMEN EARN LESS THAN
MEN, BETWEEN 74 TO 88 CENTS ON
THE DOLLAR, COMPARED TO MEN
ACCORDING TO THE STATISTICS
CANADA.
THAT, AS CANADA'S RANKING BY THE
WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM'S GLOBAL
GENDER GAP INDEX, CAME IN THIS
YEAR AT JUST 35TH OUT OF 144
COUNTRIES.
SARAH KAPLAN IS A PROFESSOR OF
STRATEGIC MANAGE THE AND
DIRECTOR OF THE NEW INSTITUTE
FOR GENDER AND COMMIT AT THE U.
OF T.'S ROTMAN SCHOOL OF
MANAGEMENT AND SHE JOINS US NOW
WITH MORE ON THE PERSISTENCE OF
THIS PROBLEM.

Sarah is in her late forties, with long straight graying hair. She's wearing black-rimmed glasses, a black blazer, and a black shirt.

Steve continues GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK

Sarah says IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE

Steve says THE INK IS BARELY
DRY ON THE CREATION SO WHAT IS THIS?

The caption changes to "Sarah Kaplan. Institute for Gender and the Economy."
Then, it changes again to "The same old story?"

Sarah says THE INSTITUTE
FOR GENDER AND THE ECONOMY IS
BASED ON RESEARCH.
THE IDEA IS THAT THE STATISTICS
THAT YOU JUST CITED DON'T MAKE A
VERY POSITIVE STORY ABOUT THE
AMOUNT OF PROGRESS WE HAVE MADE
FOR WOMEN IN THE ECONOMY AND
THERE ARE MANY OTHER STATISTICS
THAT SUGGEST THAT EVEN THOUGH WE
HAVE BEEN TRYING WHETHER WOMEN
ON BOARDS OR IN LEADERSHIP AND
CORPORATIONS, WOMEN
ENTREPRENEURS GETTING FUNDING,
WE HAVE NOT MADE THE PROGRESS
THAT EVERYONE IMAGINED WE
WOULD AND TO OCCURRED TO ME AS
I WAS LOOKING AT THIS SCENE AND
DOING MY OWN RESEARCH, THAT WE
WERE HAVING THE SAME
CONVERSATION AGAIN AND AGAIN.
AND I REALIZED THAT IF WE WERE
GOING TO CHANGE THE CONVERSATION
WE HAD TO DO IT ON THE BASIS OF
RIGOROUS RESEARCH.
SO THE GOAL OF THE INSTITUTE FOR
GENDER AND THE ECONOMY IS TO
SUPPORT, CONVENE, FUND RIGOROUS
RESEARCH NOT JUST ON WHAT THE
PROBLEMS ARE BECAUSE WE HAVE A
GOOD SENSE OF THE PROBLEMS
BUT THE UNDERLYING
MECHANISMS AND WHAT WE CAN DO
ABOUT IT.
FUNDING RESEARCH, FUNDING
TRANSLATION OF THAT RESEARCH TO
MAKE SURE THERE IS NO NORMAL
PERSON... THEY ARE THERE FOR
PEER REVIEW.
FUND BEING THE TRANSLATION FOR
PEOPLE PRACTITIONERS WHETHER ITS
ORGANIZATIONS OR POLICY MAKERS,
TO ACTUALLY MAKE CHANGE.
THAT'S WHAT THE INSTITUTE IS
ABOUT.
AND AS YOU SAID, WE ARE BRAND
NEW, WE JUST GOT STARTED IN THE
FALL AND JUST BEGINNING TO MAKE
AN IMPACT ON THESE ISSUES

Steve says I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT
THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF
RESEARCH AND EFFORT BEING
UNDERTAKEN ALREADY ON THIS
SUBJECT.
SO, ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO BE
VERY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYTHING
THAT'S ALREADY GOING ON HERE IN
THIS AREA?

The caption changes to "Sarah Kaplan. Rotman School of Management."

Sarah says THAT'S A GOOD POINT THERE ARE
TREMENDOUS RESEARCHERS ALL
AROUND THE WORLD DOING AMAZING
RESEARCH AND ONE OF THE THINGS
WE ARE DOING AT THE INSTITUTE IS
TRYING TO BRING THOSE RESOURCES
TO BEAR ON THESE QUESTIONS.
SO, DOING A LOT OF TRANSLATION
WORK.
WE JUST STARTED OUR RESEARCH
BRIEF SERIES WHERE WE TAKE THE
BIG WONKY ACADEMIC RESEARCH
PAPERS AND TRANSLATE THEM INTO
TWO PAGE SUMMARIES FOR
PRACTITIONERS BECAUSE THERE IS
TREMENDOUS RESEARCH GOING ON.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE HAVEN'T
BEEN THAT MANY CENTRALIZING
PLACES IN THE WORLD OF BUSINESS
SCHOOLS THAT SAID WE WILL
ACTUALLY BE THE SPACE THAT CAN
CONVENE THESE CONVERSATIONS, WE
WILL BE THE SPACE THAT'S GOING
TO FUND EVEN MORE RESEARCH.
SO, THE GOAL OF THIS IS NOT TO
REPLACE ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S
GOING ON, BECAUSE THERE IS SO
MANY THINGS GOING ON, AS WE KNOW
FROM INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY,
WE ARE BOMBARDED WITH ALL OF THE
ACTIVITIES GOING ON.
BUT, WE HAVE NOT HAD A PRESENCE
IN THE WORLD OF BUSINESS SCHOOLS
IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT HOW
WE CAN USE THAT RESEARCH TO
REALLY CHANGE BUSINESS PRACTICE.

Steve says THIS NEXT FOLLOW UP
QUESTION IS NOT MEANT TO SOUND
AS SMART ALECY AS I FEAR IT MAY
SO I WILL TRY IT ANYWAY.
YOUR ORGANIZATION IS CALLED THE
INSTITUTE FOR GENDER AND THE
ECONOMY.
IT IS NOT CALLED THE STUART FOR
WOMEN AND THE HE ECONOMY.

Sarah says YES.

Steve says SOME MEN WILL INFER
FROM THAT THAT, YOU KNOW,
MALEDOM IS SAY GENDER AS WELL.
IS THIS A STUDY OF THEIR IMPACT
ON THE ECONOMY OR THE ECONOMY
AND THE IMPACT ON THEM AS WELL?

Sarah says I THINK
THAT'S NOT A SMART ALEC QUESTION
AT ALL.
THAT'S A TREMENDOUS QUESTION AND
ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUGHT FOR
IN THE NAMING OF THE INSTITUTE
IS TO NOT SAY WOMEN IN BUSINESS
OR WOMEN IN THE ECONOMY BECAUSE
MANY ISSUES HAVE TO DO WITH THE
INTERACTIONS OF THE GENDERLESS
OR DEFINITIONS OF MASCULINITY
WHICH IF WE THINK ONE OF THE
ISSUES FOR WOMEN IS THAT THEY
ARE THE ONES PREDOMINANTLY
EXPECTED TO BE THE CAREGIVERS AT
HOME, BOTH AT THE HOUSEHOLD OR
OF CHILDREN, THE FACT THAT
MASCULINITY HAS A DEFINITION
THAT MEANS THAT IT'S HARDER FOR
MEN TO TAKE PATERNITY LEAVE AND
HARDER FOR MEN TO BE THE ONE TO
PICK THE KID UP AT SCHOOL IF THE
KID IS SICK BECAUSE OF OUR
DEFINITIONS OF MASCULINITY
THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM AND
IN FACT, I HAVE A FANTASY TO
CONVENE A RESEARCH CONFERENCE
AROUND THE ISSUES AROUND
MASCULINITY BECAUSE I THINK THAT
WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO LOOK AT
THE INTERACTIONS AND THINK ABOUT
THE CONSTRAINTS THAT OUR GENDER
NORMS PLACE ON MEN AND WOMEN SO
I'M GLAD YOU RAISE THAT.

Steve says I'M GLAD YOU DIDN'T
LAUGH AT ME WHEN I ASK IT.
I WANT TO KNOW WHY ARE WE STILL
HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN 2017?
IT WOULD HAVE SEEMED TO ME THAT
SO MUCH PROGRESS OUGHT TO HAVE
BEEN MADE BY NOW. EVERYONE
RECOGNIZES THIS SAY ISSUE AND
UNDERSTANDS THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS.
WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS?

The caption changes to "Understanding the invisible hand."

Sarah says THAT'S A
REALLY GOOD QUESTION AND PEOPLE
HAVE ASKED ME THAT WHY I FOUNDED
THIS INSTITUTE WHERE IN 2017
DON'T WE ALREADY KNOW THESE PROBLEMS?
AND THE POINT IS THAT AFTER THE
EFFECT OF THE WOMEN'S LIBERATION
MOVEMENT IN THE 70s, 60s AND
70s WE DID MAKE TREMENDOUS
PROGRESS IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE
NEWSPAPERS HAD JOB ADS THAT WERE
NOT JOBS FOR WOMEN AND JOBS FOR
MEN WHICH WAS THE CASE.
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, MANY
INROADS.
BUT NOT AS MANY AS THERE SHOULD
HAVE WITHIN AND THERE IS A SENSE
WE HAVE PLATEAUED AND THERE IS
SAY STEAL MATE AND I THINK
IT'S... STALEMATE AND I THINK
IT'S BECAUSE WE WANT TO IMPOSE
DIVERSITY ON A SYSTEM AS OPPOSED
TO CHANGING THE SYSTEM ITSELF.
SO IT'S A NOT ENOUGH TO SIMPLY
TELL BOARDS OF DIRECTORS YOU
NEED MORE WOMEN IF THEY DON'T
HAVE NEW WAYS TO SEARCH FOR
OTHER CANDIDATES, IF THEY DON'T
CHANGE THEIR DEFINITION OF WHAT
COUNTS AS A QUALIFIED CANDIDATE.
SO MY GOAL IS TO THINK ABOUT HOW
DO WE CHANGE THAT CONVERSATION
BECAUSE WE... I THINK PRETTY
MUCH EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN
WORKING ON THESE ISSUES IS
REALLY SICK OF THE SAME
CONVERSATION THAT WE HAVE BEEN
HAVING AND SO THE QUESTION IS
WHAT'S THE NEW CONVERSATION?
AND IN MY VIEW AS AN ACADEMIC
RESEARCHER WE NEED TO INFORM
THAT NEW CONVERSATION WITH THE
RIGOROUS RESEARCH THAT TELLS US
WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING.

Steve says LET'S HEAR SOME
NUMBERS WHICH MAY SUGGEST THAT
THIS PROBLEM MIGHT SOLVE ITSELF
DOWN THE ROAD.
I WONDER.
I'M NOT SAYING.
I'M ASKING.
HERE IS THE 2014 ESSENTIALLY THE
ONTARIO CLASS OF GRADUATES.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Ontario's class of 2014."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
AND YOU CAN SEE THE PERCENTAGE
HERE OF FEMALE GRADUATES.
FOR UNDERGRADUATES IT'S
60 PERCENT AND MASTERS IT'S THE
MAJORITY.
DOCTORAL STUDENTS 45 percent.
YOUNG WOMEN SEEM TO BE OUT
PERFORMING YOUNG MEN
ACADEMICALLY IN SO MANY
DIFFERENT AREAS.
AND I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT
TIME, BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT
THE POST-SECONDARY SYSTEM IS
PUMPING OUT THESE FEMALE
GRADS.DZ WON'T SOLVE
WON'T TIME SOLVE THIS.

The caption changes to "Sarah Kaplan, @sarah_kaplan."

Sarah says I WILL DATE MYSELF.
I HAVE BEEN OUT 30 YEARS AND
THEY SAID TIME WILL SOLVE THE
PROBLEM AND LOOK AT YOU GRADS.
YOU WILL GO THROUGH THE SYSTEM,
RISE UP AND THE PROBLEM WILL
SOLVE ITSELF.
WELL, 30 YEARS LATER IT HASN'T
AND YES, WOMEN ARE GRADUATING AT
THESE TREMENDOUS RATES.
BY THE WAY, THERE ARE REAL
DIFFERENCE WHEN IS YOU START TO
TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY AREAS, SO IT'S...
OVERALL WOMEN ARE MORE BUT NOT
IN THE IMPORTANT DOMAINS THAT
LEAD TO HIGHER EARNING
POTENTIAL.
BUT, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY GET
INTO THE WORLD OF WORK, IS
SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
AND WHAT WE HAVEN'T CHANGED, WE
HAVE INCREASED THE PIPELINE BUT
WE HAVEN'T CHANGED THE WORLD OF
WORK AND THERE IS NO FUNDAMENTAL
CHANGE IN THE FACT THAT IN THIS
DAY AND AGE, MORE... FOR
FAMILIES WHO WANT CHILDREN THE
WOMAN HAS TO BARE THE CHILD AND
WE HAVE NOT CHANGED OUR
EXPECTATION THAT IT IS THE WOMAN
WHO SHOULD BARE THE BRUNT OF THE
CHILD CARE AND HOME CARE.
AND UNTIL THAT ASPECT CHANGES
AND UNTIL WE CHANGE WORK TO
ACCOMMODATE THAT, WE ARE NOT
GOING TO... IT WON'T MATTER THAT
THAT PIPELINE THAT YOU CITED IS IMPROVING.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Periscope."

Steve says I GET THAT.
BUT, DOES THAT EXPLAIN WHY WOMEN
ARE ONLY GOING TO MAKE 74 TO 88
CENTS ON THE DOLLAR THAT EVERY
MAN MAKES BECAUSE WHEN THEY HAVE
THEIR CHILDREN, THEY LEAVE THE
WORKFORCE AND THEREFORE, THEY
ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO CATCH
UP TO THEIR MALE COUNTER PARTS
WHO DON'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY
LEAVE THE WORKFORCE.
IS THAT THE EXPLANATION?

Sarah says THERE ARE
MANY EXPLANATIONS TO THE GENDER
PAY GAP AND THAT 74 CENTS HIDES
A NUMBER OF ISSUES.
ONE THAT WOMEN GO INTO THE 20TH
LOWEST... THE 20 LOWEST PAID
PROFESSIONS.
HOME CARE, SERVICE INDUSTRY,
NURSING, TEACHING, AND YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE SAY THAT'S THE WOMAN'S
CHOICE.
BUT THE QUESTION IS WHY ARE
WOMEN CHOOSING THOSE JOBS?
IN PART THEY DO BECAUSE OF THE
OTHER EXPECTATIONS.
EITHER CAREER... THE BUSINESS
EXPECTATIONS ABOUT WHAT JOBS
WOMEN SHOULD DO OR WOMEN'S
EXPECTATIONS THAT THEY WILL HAVE
TO BARE THE BRUNT OF THE HOME
CARE.
SO, SOME OF THIS IS ABOUT THE
JOBS THAT WOMEN DO OR ARE
STEPPING OUT AND HAVING TO STEP
BACK IN AND HAVING LOST THAT
AMOUNT OF TIME.
SO THAT'S PART OF IT.
BUT EVEN IF YOU CONTROL FOR ALL
OF THOSE AND YOU LOOK AT JOB PER
JOB, SAME JOB, MALE AND FEMALE,
IT'S STILL A SIX OR 7-CENT
DIFFERENCE.
AND ECONOMISTS CALL THIS
UNEXPLAINED.
BUT I WOULD SAY THE UNEXPLAINED
PART IS DISCRIMINATION.
SOMEWHERE IN THE SYSTEM.
NOT INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE BEING
DISCRIMINATORY.

Steve says YOU SAY
DISCRIMINATION BUT I REMEMBER
PREMIER KATHLEEN WYNNE HAVING A
NEWS CONFERENCE ON THIS AND
SOMEONE SAYING TO HER, MEN HAVE
NO PROBLEM GOING IN AND ASKING
THE BOSS FOR A RAISE AND WOMEN DO.
NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TAUGHT NOT
TO STEREOTYPE BUT THAT'S A
STEREOTYPE, I'M TOLD, BASED IN FACT.
IS THAT TRUE?

Sarah says IT'S SORT OF TRUE.
THERE IS THIS MYTH THAT WOMEN
ARE MORE RISK AVERSE OR DON'T
ASK OR LACK IN SELF CONFIDENCE.
THE RESEARCH SHOWS THERE IS NO
DIFFERENT DIFFERENCE IN RISK
TAKING BETWEEN MEN AND WILL ON
AVERAGE.
THERE IS A BELL CURVE AND SOME
MEN ARE MORE RISK TAKING AND
SOME WOMEN ARE.

Steve says EVEN WHEN IT COMES
TO ASKING FOR A RAISE?

Sarah says WHAT HAPPENS
IS WE DON'T CONSIDER CONTEXT.
THE SITUATION IS WHEN A WOMAN
ASKS FOR A RAISE OR FOR EXAMPLE
IN THE N.B.A. CLASSROOM WHERE I
TEACH RAISES HER HAND TO ANSWER
A QUESTION THERE ARE MANY MORE
DOWN SIDES FOR HER THAN THERE
ARE FOR A MAN BECAUSE A WOMAN
MIGHT BE PERCEIVED BY MEN AND
WOMEN BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE THESE
BUYS AS BEING TOO PUSHY AND
UNPLEASANT WHERE IF THE MAN ASKS
HE DOESN'T: WE HAVEN'T LOOKED
AT THE CONTEXT THAT IS DRIVING
THE FACT THAT WHEN THE WOMAN
ASKS, THE DOWNSIDE FOR HER IS
THAT MUCH GREATER SO WHETHER SHE
ASKS SHE IS MORE RISK TAKING AND
MORE CONFIDENT THAN THE AVERAGE
MAN BECAUSE SHE HAS TO FACE
THOSE DOWNSIDE RISKS THAT THE
MAN DOES NOT HAVE TO FACE.
SO I THINK WE HAVE IT TURN THAT
ON ITS HEAD BEFORE WE MAKE IT
INTO A FIXED WOMEN PROBLEM.
I AM REALLY ALL ABOUT MOVING
BEYOND THE FIX THE WOMAN
SOLUTION AND INTO THE FIX THE
SYSTEM SOLUTION.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP ON
THAT CHART WE PUT UP.
HOW ABOUT IN MASTERS OF BUSINESS
ADMINISTRATION PROGRAMS.
ARE WOMEN THE MAJORITY OF GRADS
IN MBA PROGRAMS?

Sarah says ABSOLUTELY
NOT. FOR A LONG TIME WOMEN
HAVE BEEN STUCK IN THE MASTERS
LEVEL AT 30 percent.
A LOT OF BUSINESS SCHOOLS HAVE
MADE REAL INITIATIVES TO MOVE
FORWARD, SO SOME OF THE TOP TIER
SCHOOLS MOVED UP TO 40 percent OR A
LITTLE BIT MORE AT ROTMAN WE
HAVE A GOAL FOR 40 percent IN THE NEXT
COUPLE OF YEARS.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE
MASTERS DEGREE COMES RIGHT AT A
TIME WHEN IT MIGHT ALSO BE PRIME
CHILD BEARING YEARS BECAUSE WE
EXPECT PEOPLE TO HAVE HAD FOUR
OR FIVE OR SIX YEARS OF WORK
EXPERIENCE SO WE ARE THINKING
HOW DO WE DESIGN THE MBA TO
ACCOMMODATE THE LIFE CYCLE OF
PEOPLE.
IN THE UNDERGRADUATE, HOWEVER,
WE HAVE MORE THAN 50 percent OF WOMEN
IN OUR UNDERGRADUATE PROGRAM
THAT'S TRUE IN MANY, MANY
UNDERGRADUATE BUSINESS
PROGRAMS.
SO IT'S A MORE IN THE MASTERS
WHERE WE DON'T SEE THAT.

Steve says AND EXPLAINS I GUESS
WHY THE POWER IN THE WORK PLACE
FEATURE IS STILL OVERWHELMINGLY MALE.

Sarah says YES.
ONE OF THE EXPLANATIONS.

Steve says CAN YOU ALSO SAY
THAT A MALE... DO WE KNOW FOR
SURE A FEMALE BOSS IS MORE
NURTURING AND ENCOURAGING
THAN MALE BOSSES.

Sarah says NO.

Steve says THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

Sarah says NO.
ALL OF US HAVE OUR BUYS AND
OFTEN WOMEN ARE UNDER SUCH
PRESSURE AS A LEADER TO MAYBE
NOT SHOW FAVOURITISM THAT THEY
MIGHT ACTUALLY DO THE REVERSE.
AND I DON'T THINK... SOMEONE
WROTE AN ARTICLE RECENTLY ABOUT
A FEMALE CEO ASKING WAS SHE
SUFFICIENTLY FEMINIST ENOUGH AND
I HAD TO TWEET BACK.

Steve says WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Sarah says EXACTLY.
I HAD TO TWEET BACK ABOUT THE
MALE CEOS.
ARE THEY FEMINIST?
WHY IS THE PRESSURE ON THE
WOMEN. WE SHOULD HAVE THE SAME
EXPECTATION OF MALE AND WOMEN
LEADERS AS OPPOSED TO PUTTING
THE PRESSURE ON WOMEN TO DO THE
WORK FOR OTHER WOMEN.

Steve says FAIR ENOUGH BUT YOU
REMEMBER MADELEINE AL BRIGHT'S
COMMENT THAT THERE IS A SPECIAL
PLACE IN HELL FOR WOMEN WHO FAIL
TO PROMOTE NURTURE OTHER WOMEN.
SHE IS SUGGEST THAT THERE IS AN
ADDED RESPONSIBILITY ON WOMEN TO
HELP SOLVE THIS MORE THAN IT IS
ON MEN.

The caption changes to "Better for everyone."

Sarah says YES.
I AM A HUGE FAN OF MADELEINE
ALBRIGHT BUT I DO NOT THINK WE
SHOULD BE ADDITIONAL... WOMEN
ARE ALREADY FIGHTING OTHER
BATTLES TO BE LEADERS AND TO PUT
THAT ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON THEM
SEEMS TO BE UNFAIR.
I THINK ALL LEADERS SHOULD BE
FIGHTING THAT BATTLE AND THAT OF
COURSE WOMEN SHOULD AND IF WOMEN
ARE PUTTING OTHER WOMEN DOWN
THAT'S NOT GREAT BUT IF MEN ARE
PUTTING WOMEN DOWN THAT'S NOT
GREAT EITHER AND WHY WE SHOULD
HAVE A DIFFERENT EXPECTATION FOR
WOMEN LEADERS AND MALE LEADERS I
DON'T UNDERSTAND.

Steve says IN OUR LAST FEW
MINUTES LET ME TRY THIS.
A LOT OF THE REFORMS WE GOT IN
THE WORK PLACE OVER THE LAST
HALF CENTURY OR MORE CAME AS A
RESULT OF UNIONS DEMANDING IT.
AND PUSHING BUSINESSES, PUSHING
GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE THE CHANGES
AND THAT'S WHY, FEMALE TEACHERS
TODAY MAKE A GOOD LIVING AND
HAVE GOOD JOB SECURITY.
THERE ARE VERY FEW UNIONIZED
WORK PLACES TODAY AS THERE WERE
30 AND 40 AND 50 YEARS AGO
PARTICULARLY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
IS THAT PART OF THE EXPLANATION?

Sarah says ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK CORPORATIONS MOVE WHEN
EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS FORCE THEM
TO MOVE AND CHANGE THEIR
PRACTICES.
UNIONS ARE AN IMPORTANT EXTERNAL
STAKE HOLDER.
WE SAW THAT IN THE RECENT
ARBITRATION SETTLEMENT LEAD TO
GO PAY INCREASES FOR FEMALES.
SO UNIONS ARE IMPORTANT.
GOVERNMENT POLICY CAN BE
INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.
CONSUMER PROTESTS CAN BE
INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AND SOCIAL
MEDIA AND BOYCOTTING.
CORPORATION ALSO MOVE IF THEY
ARE PUSHED AND UNIONS ARE AN
IMPORTANT EXTERNAL STAKE
HOLDER.

Steve says ALL RIGHT JUST
FOLLOW UP ON THAT.
GIVE US ONE IDEA IN CONCLUSION
THAT YOU THINK WOULD MAKE THE
WORK PLACE BETTER, FAIRER FOR
WOMEN.

Sarah says WELL, OKAY.
I BELIEVE THERE ARE NO SILVER
BULLETS.
IN FACT I THINK WE NEED 250
IDEAS AND NOT ONE IDEA.
BUT LET ME GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF
WHAT AN ORGANIZATION COULD DO.
WE HAVE SOME RESEARCH WE JUST
FUNDED RIGHT NOW, LOOKING AT
WHETHER WE CAN CHANGE JOB
DESCRIPTIONS TO INCLUDE MORE
CHARACTERISTICS LIKE IN
LEADERSHIP... LIKE MULTITASKING
AND COLLABORATION WHICH ARE
ASSOCIATED WITH WOMEN AND IF
CHANGING THE JOB DESCRIPTION
WOULD ACTUALLY LEAD TO MORE
WOMEN PUT INTO JOBS.
BECAUSE WE CAN'T SEEM TO CHANGE
OUR PERCEPTIONS OF WOMEN, SO
LET'S NOT CHANGE THOSE.
LET'S TRY TO CHANGE THE
PERCEPTION OF WHAT THE
LEADERSHIP ROLE IS.
WE HAVE AN EXPERIMENT...
ACTUALLY WE ARE LOOK FOR SOME
CORPORATIONS TO COLLABORATE WITH
US ON THAT BUT THAT'S ONE
EXAMPLE A COMPANY COULD DO.
AT THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL, I THINK
WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER
QUOTAS.
WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER USE IT
OR LOSE IT PATERNITY LEAVE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Mark Brosens, @MarkBrosens."

Steve says THANKS SO MUCH FOR
COMING IN. SARA KAPLAN,
INSTITUTE FOR GENDER AND ECONOMY
AT THE U. OF T.

Watch: Gender and the Economy