Transcript: The Great Lakes: Areas of Concern | Oct 04, 2016

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, pink shirt, and spotted blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "The Great Lakes: Areas of concern. Do not swim, fish or drink."

Steve says SINCE 1987 CANADA AND THE U.S.
HAVE RECOGNIZED 43 AREAS OF
CONCERN.
THAT IS THE 43 MOST SEVERELY
POLLUTED AREAS IN THE GREAT
LAKES BASIN.
THIRTY YEARS ON, JUST SEVEN OF
THOSE HAVE BEEN DELISTED.
SO, WHERE DO THINGS STAND NOW IN
THE EFFORT TO CLEAN UP THESE
TOXIC HOT SPOTS?
LET'S ASK DAVID ULLRICH
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE GREAT
LAKES ST. LAWRENCE CITIES INITIATIVE.

David is in his late sixties, clean-shaven and balding. He's wearing glasses, a dark gray suit, white shirt, and golden tie.

Steve continues WENDY CARNEY DEPUTY DIRECTOR EPA
GREAT LAKES PROGRAM OFFICE.

Wendy is in her late forties, with shoulder-length wavy blond hair and side-swept bangs. She's wearing a black blazer over a black and blue patterned blouse.

Steve continues JON GEE MANAGER OF THE GREAT
LAKES AREA OF CONCERN WITH
ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE CANADA...

Jon is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped gray tie.

Steve continues AND AS YOU SAW IN THE
BACKGROUND PIECE THERE, CHRIS
McLAUGHLIN, A MEMBER OF BARC.

Chris is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair. He's wearing a gray suit, orange shirt, and tartan tie.

Steve continues AND WE HAVE OUR FRIENDS FROM
CHICAGO, NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE
IN THE CAPITAL CITY OF THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
AND WE GOT THE LAY OF THE LAND
BUT WE WANT TO DO ANOTHER VERY
SHORT MINUTE AND A HALF LONG
PIECE WITH A BROADER VIEW OF
WHERE THINGS ARE AT WITH ALL THE
GREAT LAKES.
SO SHELDON IF YOU WOULD, LET'S
RUN THAT.

A clip plays on screen showing a satellite view of North America which homes in on the Great Lakes.
A title reads "1987."

Steve's voice says
IN 1987 THE GREAT LAKES WATER
QUALITY AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
UNITED STATES AND CANADA CREATED
THE SO-CALLED AREAS OF CONCERN.
THE MOST SEVERELY POLLUTED AREAS
IN THE GREAT LAKES BASIN.
THERE ARE 43 AREAS OF CONCERN.
TWENTY-SIX IN THE U.S. AND 12 IN
CANADA AND FIVE ARE SHARED BY BOTH COUNTRIES.

The areas of concern appear marked on the map.

Steve continues TO DATE, SEVEN AREAS OF CONCERN
HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE
LIST.
FOUR IN THE U.S. AND THREE IN
CANADA.
TWO AIR ASBEEN LISTED AS "IN
RECOVERY.
JACK FISH BAY ON LAKE SUPERIOR
AND SPANISH HARBOUR ON LAKE HURON.
IN ORDER TO BE DELISTED AREAS OF
CONCERN MUST TARGET AND
REMEDIATE WHAT ARE KNOWN AS
BENEFICIAL USE IMPAIRMENTS.

As Steve speaks, icons illustrate the beneficial impairments.

Steve continues AND THESE INCLUDE BEACH
CLOSINGS, RESTRICTIONS ON FISH
AND WILDLIFE CONSUMPTION,
RESTRICTIONS ON DRINKING WATER
CONSUMPTION, THE PRESENCE OF
TUMOURS IN FISH, BIRD OR ANIMAL
DEFORMITIES AND REPRODUCTIVE
ISSUES, UNDESIRABLE ALGAE AND
LOSS OF FISH AND WILDLIFE HABITAT.
CLEANING UP THESE SITES IS OF
COURSE VERY EXPENSIVE AND IN
2007 ENVIRONMENT CANADA
ESTIMATED THE CLEAN UP COST FOR
THE CANADIAN AREAS OF CONCERN AT
THREE AND A HALF BILLION DOLLARS.

The clip ends.

Steve says OKAY MORE BACKGROUND
ON ALL OF THE GREAT LAKES.
DAVID, GET US STARTED WHAT ARE
SOME OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS YOU
ARE SEEING AS YOU LOOK AT THE
WHOLE GREAT LAKES BASIN.

The caption changes to "David Ullrich. Great Lakes St. Lawrence Cities Initiative."

David says THE NUMBER ONE AREA
OF CONCERN PROBLEM HAS BEEN
CONTAMINATED SEDIMENTS FROM THE
VERY BEGINNING.
WITH INDUSTRIAL DISCHARGES OVER
MANY, MANY YEARS, A LOT OF
CONTAMINANTS, PARTICULARLY
PCBs HAVE WOUND UP IN THOSE
SEDIMENTS.
IT'S A EXPENSIVE PROCESS AND
THERE WAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE AT
THE OUTSET SAYING YOU WILL ONLY
MAKE IT WORSE BY DIGGING IT UP
AND THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT
MECHANICAL DREDGING.
BUT HYDRAULIC DREDGING WHICH IS
LIKE A BIG VACUUM CLEANER WAS
DEVELOPED RELATIVELY QUICKLY AND
SLOWLY, BUT SURELY, WE WERE ABLE
TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU CAN
REMOVE THESE SEDIMENTS
EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT
CONTAMINATING THE WATER COLUMN
IT'S EXPENSIVE AND THAT HAS BEEN
THE BIGGEST HURDLE ALL ALONG.
THAT HAS BEEN ONE OF THE Biggest
ONES COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOWS
FROM THE MUNICIPALITIES IS A BIG
ONE, A LOTñr OF THE HABITAT HAS
BEEN DEGRADED AND THOSE ARE SOME
OF THE SERIOUS PROBLEMS SMOO LET
ME FOLLOW UP ON THE CHEMICALS.
THE CHEMICALS ARE IN THE WATER
BECAUSE OF OVERFLOW FROM
INDUSTRIAL USE.
HAVE THEY BEEN THERE, SOME OF
THEM FOR A HUNDRED YEARS?

David says OH YEAH.
EASILY.
THE STEEL INDUSTRY ON THE
SOUTHEAST SIDE OF CHICAGO AND
INDIANA HAS BEEN THERE SINCE
BEFORE 1900 AND THEY JUST BUILT
UP AND BUILT UP AND BUILT UP
OVER THE YEARS AND NOTHING HAD
BEEN DONE ABOUT THEM.
AND THEY SLOWLYRs5 SEEPED OUT IO
THE LAKES AS WELL.

Steve says AND THEY NEVER GO AWAY?

David says NO, THEY DON'T.

Steve says AND WENDY WHAT WOULD
YOU ADD TO THAT LIST?

The caption changes to "Wendy Carney. Environmental Protection Agency."

Wendy says I THINK I AGREE WITH
DAVE THAT SOME OF THE BIGGEST
PROBLEMS WE SEE INITIALLY ARE
SOME OF THE CONTAMINATED
SEDIMENT ISSUES BUT WE ARE ALSO
SEEING A LOT OF ISSUES RELATED
TO HABITAT LOSS AND DEGRADATION
AS A RESULT OF URBANIZATION IN
SOME AREAS OF CONCERN.
IN ADDITION TO TRYING TO CLEAN
UP THE SEDIMENT WE ARE TAKING
AREAS WHERE HABITAT HAS BEEN
LOST AND TRYING TO PUT HABITAT
BACK INTO THOSE AREAS OF CONCERN
AND IT CAN BE EXPENSIVE TO DO
THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE RECREATING
AN ENVIRONMENT THAT JUST
BASICALLY WAS ELIMINATED FROM
SOME OF THESE AREAS OF CONCERN.

Steve says I UNDERSTAND WHY IF
THERE IS A NUCLEAR PLANT ON THE
SHORES, THERE WILL BE ISSUES
ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, OR IF
THERE IS SAY STEEL COMPANY ON
THE SHORES THERE WILL BE ISSUES
ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
BUT ABSENT THOSE DO YOU KNOW WHY
A PARTICULAR AREAS OF CONCERN
BECAUSE AN AREA OF CONCERN.
IS THERE SOMETHING ENDEMIC TO THE AREA?

The caption changes to "Jon Gee. Environment and Climate Change Canada."

Jon says IT'S ITS LEVEL OF
DEGRADATION.
SOME WERE DEGRADED FISH
POPULATIONS, ALGAE AND SO ON IN
THE WATER.
THAT DEPENDS ON THE AREA BECAUSE
a
SOME SITES
LIKE HAMILTON WERE
HEAVILY INDUSTRIALIZED.
TORONTO WAS HIGHLY URBANIZED AND
OUR NORTHERN AOCs IT WAS PULP
AND PAPER MILLS.
I REMEMBER AS A KID TRAVELLING
TO EXPO 67 AND YOU COULD SMELL
CORNWALL BEFORE YOU COULD SEE IT
AND IT WAS THE PULP AND PAPER.
THOSE WERE BIG AND VOWBS
PROBLEMS.

Steve says I'M FROM HAMILTON AS
ARE YOU AND WE HAD A JOKE
UP IN HAMILTON WHICH IS
I WOULD NEVER WANT TO LIVE IN A
CITY WHERE I COULDN'T SEE THE
AIR I WAS BREATHING.
AND IT'S FUNNY HOW THINGS HAVE
CHANGED.
I KNOW WHEN I WAS A KID AND YOU
USED TO SEE ALL THE STUFF COMING
OUT OF THE STACKS AND YOU KNEW
WHAT WAS GOINGÑi INTO THE WATER,
YOU KNOW WHAT WE CALLED THAT 50
YEARS AGO?
WE CALLED THAT PROGRESS.
THAT... THEY WERE EMPLOYING TENS
OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THERE.
A BIT OF A DIFFERENT VIEW OF IT TODAY?

The caption changes to "Chris McLaughlin. Bay Area Restoration Council."

Chris says WE DO GIVEN THOSE
JOBS HAVE EVAPORATED.
IT'S A DIFFERENT ECONOMY IN
HAMILTON NOW AND MANY OF THE
PEOPLE WE MEET WHO ARE OUT
REDISCOVERING THE ENVIRONMENT
AROUND THE BAY, HAVING RETURNED
TO THE CITY AFTER 20, 30 YEARS,
CAN'T BELIEVE THEIR EYES.
THERE IS... THERE IS A
BURGEONING NEW CULTURE THAT
DOESN'T... THAT DOESN'T HOLD ON
TO THAT... WE'RE HAMILTON, WE
DON'T DESERVE NICE THINGS KIND
OF ATTITUDE.

Steve says I GET THAT BUT 60
YEARS AGO THERE WAS A TORONTO
URBAN PLANNING PROFESSOR WHO
CALLED HAMILTON THE WORLD'S
LARGEST AND MOST BEAUTIFUL
SEPTIC TANK.
IS THAT A FAIR DESCRIPTION BACK
THEN.

Chris says YES, THAT WOULD HAVE
BEEN ACCURATE.

Steve says HOW ABOUT TODAY.

Chris says COMPLETELY TURNED
AROUND, IN FACT.
I HAD A COMMITTEE MEMBER ONE
TIME AT A MEETING SAY THAT OUR
JOB AT BARC IS NOT TO CHEER LEAD
FOR THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT,
FOR EXAMPLE AND I SAID HAMILTON
WATER HAS GREAT LEADERSHIP, LOTS
OF GREAT PROGRESSIVE IDEAS.
I'M NOT HAPPY WITH EVERYTHING
THE CITY IS IT DOING BUT I GO ON
THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SPECTATOR
WITH POMPOMS AND A TUTU FOR
GREAT PROJECTS.
AND SO YOU HAVE UP UNTIL 1964,
FAIR TO SAY, ALMOST UNMITIGATED
SEWAGE FLOWING INTO THE BAY.
THAT'S A FRIGHTENING AMOUNT.
AND YOU HAVE IN 1964 THE FIRST
WASTE WATER TREATMENT PLANT AND
SINCE THEN, WITH THE RECENT
UPGRADES OF HALF A BILLION
DOLLARS TO THE BURLINGTON PLANT
AND HAMILTON'S WASTE WATER
TREATMENT PLANT, YOU HAVE TWO,
BURLINGTON HAS JUST COME ON
LINE, RENOVATIONS ARE COMPLETED
THERE.
HAMILTON'S WILL BE DONE BY 20
2022 AND VUL TWO OF THE BEST
PLANTS... YOU WILL HAVE TWO OF
THE BEST PLANTS IN NORTH AMERICA
AND THE OUTFLOW WILL BE BELOW
THE TARGETS FOR PHOSPHOROUS THAT
WAS SET AND THAT'S 50 percent OF THE
WATER FLOWING BACK INTO THE
BAY.
SO A REMARKABLE CHANGE OF
EVENTS.
A REAL ACHIEVEMENT FOR THE
COMMUNITY.
SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF.

Steve says CAN YOU GO IN THE
WATER YET?

Chris says YOU CAN AND YOU HIT
ON SOMETHING THAT'S PROBABLY
DEAREST IT MYoT HEART, WHICH IS,
THE WHOLE PERCEPTION OF THE
ISSUES WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT,
IN HAMILTON IN PARTICULAR,
PERCEPTIONS HAVE NOT CAUGHT UP
WITH REALITY.
REALITY IS NOT FULLY EMBRACED
ALL THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS WE NEED
TO REACH YET BUT THE PERCEPTION
THAT HAMILTON HARBOUR IS ONE BIG
UNIFORMLY DANGEROUS PLACE, IS
SIMPLY NO LONGER TRUE.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE
ACCOMPLISHED EVERYTHING THAT WE
NEED TO DO BUT THE FACT REMAINS
THAT YOU CAN SAFELY, INSOFAR AS
BACTERIA, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN
SAFELY GO IN THE WATER MOST
PLACES, MOST OF THE TIME.
AND IN FACT, IN ADVANCE OF
CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS, EARLIER
THIS SUMMER, I MADE SURE I HAD
MY PICTURE TAKEN, THE HIGH LEVEL
BRIDGE IN THE BACKGROUND BECAUSE
THE ONLY ANSWER TO THE QUESTION
I HAVE BEEN IN IS YES.
YES, ABSOLUTELY.
BUT I WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU,
HAVING WORKED ON THIS FOR YEARS,
AND HAVING SWAM IN LAKES AND
RIVERS ALL OVER THE PLACE, EVERY
WHERE IN ONTARIO AND GROWING UP
IN PETERBOROUGH, AND WATER IS
THE CALLING CARD IN THE
KAWARTHAS, IT WAS STRANGE.
IT'S STRANGE GOING IN HAMILTON
MASH BECAUSE WE M BEEN, AS A
COMMUNITY, SO DEATTACHED FROM
OUR WATER, FROM THIS AMAZING
NATURAL ASSET.

Steve says AND TOLD FOR DECADES
NOT GO IN SO IT DOES FEEL
STRANGE.
AND YOU SAY RAP WHICH IS NOT
MUSIC BUT THE REMEDIAL ACTION
PLAN THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO BEAR.

Chris says I AM.

Steve says I WANT TO FIND OUT
ABOUT EMISSIONS.
DAVID, THE GREAT LAKES ST.
LAWRENCE INITIATIVE WHAT IS THAT?

David says WE ARE A GROUP OF
123 U.S. AND CANADIAN CITIES
REPRESENTING 17 MILLION PEOPLE
AND THE PRIMARY REASON WE WERE
FORMED BY FORMER MAYOR DAILY OF
CHICAGO AND MAYOR MILLER OF
TORONTO, AND MAYOR JEAN PAUL
LAURIER OF QUEBEC CITY, WAS THAT
CITIES WERE REALLY LEFT OUT OF
THE DISCUSSION, WHAT SHOULD THE
FUTURE OF THE GREAT LAKES AND
ST. LAWRENCE BE.
AND THEY WERE ALL RELATIVELY
ASSERTIVE PEOPLE AND THEY SAID
CITIES HAVE SOME GOOD IDEAS AND
WE SHOULDN'T SIT BACK AND BE
TOLD BY THE PROVINCIAL STATE AND
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHAT IS TO DO
OF SO WHY DON'T WE GET SEATS AT
DECISION MAKING TABLES AND SAY
WHAT WE THINK.
SECONDLY, WE WANTED TO ESTABLISH
A BEST PRACTICES NETWORK BECAUSE
A LOTxD OF GOOD IDEAS WERE BEING
DEVELOPED IN CITIES ALL ACROSS
CANADA AND THE U.S. AND ON THE
GREAT LAKES AND THE ST. LAWRENCE
SO WHY NOT SET UP A SYSTEM WITH
WEB SITES AND BEST PRACTICES TO
SHARE THESE TYPES OF THINGS AND
GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING ALL
OVER.
THE 3RD THING IS THAT THE MAYORS
FELT THAT NOT ENOUGH ATTENTION
WAS BEING PAID BY OTTAWA AND
WASHINGTON TO THE GREAT LAKES
AND ST. LAWRENCE.
TWENTY percent OF THE SURFACE FRESH
WATER OF THE WORLD, ONE OF THE
MOST MAGNIFICENT NATURAL
TREASURES ON THE PLANET, AND NOT
THAT MUCH INVESTMENT IN IT.
SO WE STARTED WITH THE FOCUS ON
WATER QUALITY, WATER QUANTITY
AND WATER FRONT VITALITY, AND
THEN HAVE GROWN INTO A BROADER
INTEGRATED AGENDA OF
SUSTAINABILITY WITH ECONOMIC,
SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL
ISSUES.
WE TRY TO LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

Steve says AND WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?

David says I WORK FOR THE 123
MAYORS.

Steve says ARE YOU PAID BY THE
CITIES?

David says YEAH.

Steve says YOU WORK FOR THE
MUNICIPALITIES.

The caption changes to "David Ullrich, @GLSLcities"

David says I AM NOT AN
EMPLOYEE.
WE ARE AN ORGANIZATION, A
CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION IN THE
U.S.
WE HAVE A PARALLEL CANADIAN
ORGANIZATION.
WE FUNCTION AS ONE
ORGANIZATION.
I CALL US MAYORS WITHOUT
BORDERS.
AND HONESTLY, OVER THE YEARS, WE
HAVE NEVER HAD A CANADIAN-U.S.
BATTLE.
WE HAVE NEVER HAD A BIG CITY
SMALL CITY BATTLE.
WE HAVE NEVER HAD A
LIBERAL-CONSERVATIVE BATTLE.
IT GETS DICEY DURING THE STANLEY
CUP FINALS BUT OTHER THAN THAT
WE GET ALONG REALLY WELL, AND
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE LAKES AND
WHAT QUALITY OF LIFE AND
ECONOMIC WELL BEING.

Steve says AND WHICH ARE THE
SPECIFIC AREAS OF CONCERN THAT
YOUR WORKING ON.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram."

David says WELL, WE DON'T GET
THAT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THEM,
BUT, MILWAUKEE IS ONE OF THEM
WHERE INDIRECTLY WE HAVE BEEN
INVOLVED AND SHABOIGAN,
WISCONSIN, THAT HOME OF BRATT
WURST AND OTHER DELICACIES AND
THE ST. LOUIS ESTUARY, WE HAVE
HAD SOME ENGAGEMENT IN THOSE.
AND OUR WATCH IS WE WILL GET
INVOLVED IF WE CAN MAKE MORE AND
BETTER THINGS HAPPEN FASTER.
AND WHERE WE CAN DO THAT, WE DO
TRY TO INJECT TO GET A MAYOR
SAYING WE HAVE TO DO THIS.
BUT, IF THINGS ARE MOVING ALONG
OKAY WE'LL STAND BACK.
SO WE DON'T GET TOO HE HAVELY
INVOLVED BUT WE ARE INVOLVED IN
SOME OF THEM.

Steve says WENDY, WHAT'S YOUR
MISSION.

Wendy says THE GREAT LAKES
NATIONAL PROGRAM OFFICE, WE ARE
AN OFFICE INSIDE OF THE U.S.
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
AGENCY.
BUT WE ARE AN OFFICE THAT
FOCUSES SOLELY ON THE PROTECTION
OF THE RESTORATION OF THE GREAT
LAKES.
SO, PRIOR TO ABOUT 2010, THE
OFFICE HAD PRETTY MUCH A MUCH
SMALLER FINANCIAL BUDGET AND WE
FOCUSED A LOT ON COLLABORATING
AND BRINGING STAKEHOLDERS
TOGETHER TO SOLVE PROBLEMS ON
THE GREAT LAKES AND FOCUSING ON
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE WATER
QUALITY AGREEMENT AND MAKING
SURE WE WERE GATHERING DATA
ESSENTIALLY ON THE HEALTH OF THE
GREAT LAKES.
AROUND 2010 WE HAD A
PRESIDENTIAL INITIATIVE LAUNCHED
THAT PUT A LOT OF FINANCIAL
BACKING BEHIND A LOT OF THE LEG
WORK THAT WAS DONE BY THE
OFFICE, AND FOLKS, TO SORT OF
DEFINE WHAT THE PROBLEMS WERE
AND WHAT WE REALLY NEEDED TO
FOCUS ON IN TERMS OF RESTORING
THE GREAT LAKES ON THE U.S. SIDE
OF THE BORDER.
AND SINCE THEN, WE HAVE BEEN
CHARGED ESSENTIALLY WITH
SPEARHEADING THAT ENTIRE
INITIATIVE.
SO WE WORK WITH 16 OTHER FEDERAL
AGENCIES AS WELL AS MANY STATE
AGENCIES, LOCAL ENTITIES, LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS, NONGOVERNMENTAL
ORGANIZATIONS AND TRY TO
FACILITATE RESTORATION ACROSS
THE GREAT LAKES ON A NUMBER OF
ISSUES.

Steve says YOU ARE TALKING TIE
CANADIAN AUDIENCE AND BECAUSE OF
THAT I'LL ASK YOU THIS FLIPPANT
QUESTION.
MICHIGAN IS THE ONLY GREAT LAKE
THAT'S ENTIRELY IN THE UNITED
STATES.
DO YOU THEREFORE CARE ABOUT IT
MORE THAN THE OTHERS?

Wendy says NO.

Steve says PROVE IT.

Wendy says OKAY., SO, WE HAVE MANY GREAT LAKE
AREAS OF CONCERN THAT WE HAVE
PUT LOTS OF MONEY INTO.
JUST THIS LAST YEAR WE PUT ABOUT
18 MILLION dollars INTO THE CLINTON
RIVER AREA OF CONCERN TO
ACTUALLY WORK ON A NUMBER OF
HABITAT RESTORATION PROJECTS.

Steve says WHERE IS THAT
CORRECT THE CLINTON RIVER.

Wendy says THAT IS LAKE ERIE IN OHIO.
AND WE HAVE PUT A LOT OF MONEY
UP IN THE BUFFALO RIVER AREA OF
CONCERN AS WELL, SOME
SIGNIFICANT DREDGING PROJECTS
HAVE TAKEN PLACE UP THERE.
AND WE ARE WORKING WITH THE
LOCAL ENTITIES UP THERE ON
HABITAT RESTORATION PROJECTS AS WELL.

Steve says ARE THE AREAS OF
CONCERN, IS THAT THE --
BASICALLY THE FRONT LINES IN THE
BATTLE TO REMEDIATE THESE LAKES?

Wendy says THE AREAS OF CONCERN
ARE THE AREAS THAT HAVE THE
GREATEST NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT
NEED TO BE RESOLVED AND SO, THE
THEY ARE VERY QUANTIFIABLE
IN TERMS OF THE PROGRESS WE ARE
MAKING ON THE LAKES AS A WHOLE.
WE ARE ALSO FOCUSED ON INVASIVE
SPECIES, HABITATS, RESTORATION
AND SPECIES POPULATIONS THAT ARE
NOT IN AREAS OF CONCERN, AS WELL
AS BOTH AGRICULTURAL AND URBAN
RUNOFF AS WELL.
SO, THE INITIATIVE COVERS A WIDE
RANGE OF ISSUES BUT OVERALL, THE
LARGEST PROMOTION OF THE MONEY,
ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF MONTY WE GET
EVERY YEAR GOES TOWARDS CLEAN UP
IN AREAS OF CONCERN.

Steve says AND NO ONE BELIEVES
ME WHEN I SAY THIS.
WHICH PRESIDENT CREATED THE
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
AGENCY.

Jon says RICHARD NIXON.

Steve says THAT'S RIGHT.
NOBODY WILL BELIEVE ME ON THAT.
OKAY, JEAN-PHILIPPE, LET'S
BRING... JON, LET'S BRING NEW ON
THIS.
NOW PORT HOPE AND ALL OF THE
ISSUES AROUND PORT MOPE BECAUSE
OF THE NUCLEAR... PORT HOPE
BECAUSE OF THE NUCLEAR PLANT AND
WHAT'S IN THE SEDIMENT.
IS THERE ANY HOPE OF CLEANING
THAT UP?

Jon says IT'S RADIOACTIVE
WASTE FROM PROCESSING, GOING
BACK TOom THE 40s OR THE 30
IT'S THE HARBOUR ITSELF THAT IS
THE CONCERN AND TO ONLY HAS ONE
BENEFICIAL USE IMPAIRMENT AND
THAT BENEFICIAL USE IMPAIRMENT
IS RESTRICTION... OR DEGRADATION
OF THE LITTLE CRITTERS THAT LIVE
IN THE SEDIMENT.
CANADA'S PORT HOPE AREA
INITIATIVE IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS
WILL REMOVE THAT SEDIMENT AND
PLACE IT IN THE STORAGE FACILITY
THAT'S UNDER CONSTRUCTION NOW.
TO DO THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO
REPLACE ALL OF THE HARBOUR
WALLS, REMOVE TAN PUT IT INTO A
DISPOSAL FACILITY AND RESTORE IT
SO IT BECOMES A FUNCTIONING
HARBOUR.

Steve says THAT SOUNDS VERY
EXPENSIVE.
HOW MUCH WILL THAT COST?

Jon says PROBABLY IN THE REALM
OF 50 TO 75 MILLION.

Steve says AND IT WILL GET THE
JOB DONE.

Jon says THE PROGRAM IS THERE
AND ON THE BOOKS BUT THEY HAVE
TO GET THE STORAGE FACILITY IN
PLACE FIRST.
THAT, I THINK, IS THE FOCUS OF
THE INITIATIVE RIGHT NOW AND
THEN THEY WILL MOVE ON.
THEY ARE ALSO CLEANING UP SITES
THROUGHOUT THE TOWN.
BUT THE HARBOUR ITSELF, ONCE
THAT IS DONE IT WILL SHOW IT
WILL BE RECOLONIZED BY THE
CRITTER THAT IS INHABIT THE BOLT
AND PORT HOPE CAN BE DELISTED.

Steve says HOW DID THE RADIOACTIVITY GET INTO THE WATER?

Jon says BECAUSE IN PRODUCING
THE PRODUCT THEY WANTED, IT
GENERATED A HUGE WASTE STREAM SO
THEY HAD TO PUT THAT... AND THEY
PUT IT EVERY WHERE, ALL AROUND
THE TOWN AND A LOT ENDED UP IN
THE HARBOUR.
IT'S A BIG CHALLENGE THERE.

Steve says WOULD YOU SAY THAT
YOUR... TRYING TO GET A BETTER
UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR PRIME
MISSION.
WHETHER IT'S TO CLEAN UP ALL THE
MESS THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED
OR, TRYING TO PREVENT FURTHER
MESSES FROM HAPPENING?
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

Jon says OBVIOUSLY IT'S A
COMBINATION OF BOTH BUT IT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THIS
CLEAN UP OF AREAS OF CONCERN IN
PERSPECTIVE.
GOING BACK TO... YOU MENTIONED
THE CREATION OF THE
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
ON THE U.S. SIDE AND IN CANADA
AS WELL, IS WHEN THE FULL RANGE
OF ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS WERE BEING
PASSED.
THAT WAS ALL DESIGNED TO STOP
THE BLEEDING.
LET'S NOT MAKE IT WORSE THAN TO
ALREADY IS.
AND THAT WAS A BIG CHALLENGE IN
AND OF ITSELF.
AND THEN, IN THE EARLY 80s AND
IN 87 REVISIONS TO THE WATER
QUALITY AGREEMENT, PEOPLE
REALIZED, WAIT A MINUTE, WE HAVE
TO GO BACK AND UNDO SOME OF THE
THINGS WE HAVE DONE BEFORE.
AND THE WHOLE THEORY BEHIND THE
AREAS OF CONCERN WAS THAT YOU
KNOW THE GREAT LAKES ARE
MASSIVE.
YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.
SO YOU SET PRIORITIES AND THE
MOST CONTAMINATED AREAS, LET'S
CONCENTRATE OUR EFFORTS ON
THAT.
IT'S TAKEN MUCH LONGER THAN
ANYBODY WOULD HAVE LIKED.
NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS BEEN DONE
BEFORE.

Steve says WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO
MUCH LONGER?

David says WELL, BECAUSE THIS HADN'T N
DONE BEFORE.
NOBODY KNEW HOW TO DO IT AND
THERE WASN'T THE MONEY TO DO
IT.

Steve says THERE WASN'T THE
MONEY TO DO IT SOUNDS LIKE A
LACK OF COMMITMENT BY POLITICAL
DECISION MAKERS.

David says THAT'S PART OF IT,
YEAH.
AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HAD
ANY IDEA OF WHAT THE MAGNITUDE
OF THE TASK WAS BECAUSE THINGS
LIKE THIS HAD NOT BEEN DONE
LS INTO IT
BEFORE AND AS THEY GOTíy5
IT... AND THERE WASN'T A
LIABILITY SYSTEM THAT WAS SET UP
LIKE UNDER THESE REGULATORY LAWS
WHERE THIS COMPANY HAS TO STOP
THAT POLLUTION BY THIS AMOUNT OF
TIME.
THIS DIDN'T REALLY MAKE ANYBODY
DO ANYTHING.
EPA, ENVIRONMENT CANADA, OTHERS
HAD TO GO OUT AND SAY THIS IS A
PROBLEM.
LET'S ALL GET TOGETHER AND TRY
TO SOLVE IT.
WELL, WHO WILL START PUTTING
MONEY ON THE TABLE TO DO THAT?
IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS
AND AS WENDY MENTIONED ON THE
U.S. SIDE IT WASN'T UNTIL 2002
WE HAD SOMETHING CALLED THE
LEGACY ACT.
AND THEN IN 2010 TO THE TUNE OF
300 MILLION dollars A YEAR, THAT'S A
REAL GAME CHANGER.
THEN YOU CAN GO OUT AND NOT ONLY
DO THINGS DIRECTLY YOURSELF BUT
YOU CAN LEVERAGE OTHER MONEY.
SO, I KNOW IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
GREATER TO DO IT FASTER BUT
THERE ARE GOOD REASONS WHY IT
DIDN'T.

The caption changes to "Making the Great Lakes Great Again."

Steve says AND ONE MORE FOLLOW
UP HERE WITH CHRIS AND THAT IS
ON HARKENING BACK TO THE VIDEO
YOU WANT TO CROW 8TH CONTAINMENT
AREA WHERE YOU WANT TO HAVE ALL
OF THE POLLUTION IN THAT AREA
AND MAKING EVERYTHING AROUND IT
MORE PRISTINE.
WHERE IS THAT AT RIGHT NOW?

Chris says JUST TO BE CLEAR,
BARC IS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION
WITH A PUBLIC INTEREST INVOLVED
IN THE RESTORATION OF THE
HARBOUR.
THE RANDALL REEF PROJECT IS
JON'S BABY.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS THE
LEAD PROJECT.
WE ARE NOT ONE OF THE ACTORS IN÷
THE PROJECT ITSELF.
OUR JOB FOR 25 YEARS IN FACT HAS
BEEN TO BOTH PARTICIPATE IN THE
PROCESSION, O SO JON AND I AS
REPRESENTATIVES OF THE
GOVERNMENT AND NONGOVERNMENTAL
AGENCIES IN THE REMEDIAL ACTION
PLAN FOR HAMILTON, SIT AT THE
SAME TABLE AND WE BOTH HAVE
ACTIONS UNDER... ACTION ITEMS WE
ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR.
SO WE PRODUCE COMMUNITY EVENTS
AND SCHOOL PROGRAMMING TO
EDUCATE YOUNG PEOPLE.
JON HELPS PAY FOR WASTE WATER
TREATMENT PLANTS FOR EXAMPLE.
SO WE BOTH HAVE A ROLE TO PLI
AND COME AT IT FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES.

Steve says JON YOU DESCRIBED IT
IN THE VIDEO WHICH IS WHY I WENT
TO YOU FIRST.
TELL US WHAT STAGE THAT IS AT
RIGHT NOW.

Jon says RANDALL REEF IS UNDER
CONSTRUCTION.
CONSTRUCTION STARTED FALL OF
2015.
THIS PAST SPRING WE STARTED
ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE MAIN
CONTAINMENT FACILITY AND IT'S A
THREE STAGE DRAW.
DRAW A 6-HECTARE DOUBLE WALLED
ENGINEERED CONTAINMENT
FACILITY.
STAGE TWO IS DREDGE ALL OF THE
CONTAMINATED SEDIMENT AROUND IT
INTO IT.
STAGE THREE IS PUT A LID ON THAT
BIG BOX, DEWATER IT, CAP ITÑi WH
AN IMPERMEABLE LID, PAVE IT AND
TURN IT OVER TO THE PORT
AUTHORITY WHICH IS IMPORTANT
BECAUSE YOU WILL NEED A REVENUE
STREAM TO MAINTAIN IT.

Steve says WHEN WILL THAT BE
DONE BY?

Jon says BY 2022.
THAT'S A BIG PROJECT.
IT'S JUST SLIGHTLY UNDER
140 MILLION dollars.

Steve says FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR.

Jon says NO IT'S REALLY A
UNIQUE PRIVATE PUBLIC
PARTNERSHIP.
CANADA IS PUTTING IN A 3RD,
ONTARIO IS A 3RD AND PT LOCAL
COMMUNITY MADE UP OF THE CITY OF
HAMILTON, THE HAMILTON PORT
AUTHORITY, US STEEL, CITY OF
BURLINGTON AND HALTON REGION
PICK8G÷ UP THE BALANCE.
THE U.S. STEEL CONTRIBUTED THE
STEEL AND ITS FABRICATION AND
IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT
THE STEEL GOING IN IN THE FORM
OF PILINGS, IF YOU WERE TO LAY
THOSE PILINGS END TO END THEY
WOULD EXTEND ALMOST FROM THE
SITE TO TORONTO, ABOUT 38
KILOMETRES, A RIBBON OF STEEL
THAT LONG.

Steve says DO YOU HAVE ANY
DOUBT BUT THAT THIS WILL WORK.

Jon says WE ARE CERTAIN IT WILL WORK.

Steve says YOU ARE SURE.

Jon says YES.

Steve says HOW DO YOU KNOW?
HAS IT BEEN DONE BEFORE.

Jon says IT'S A UNIQUE
COMBINATION OF THINGS.
VARIOUS PARTS HAVE BEEN DONE
ELSEWHERE BUT IT IS HIGHLY
ENGINEERED.
THE WALLS ARE MORE THAN HALF AN
INCH THICK.
IT'S BEING MONITORED.
IT'S DOUBLE WALLED.
IT WILL WORK.

Steve says BY 2022.

Jon says WE HOPE IT WILL BE
FINISHED BY 2022.
PROJECT IS CURRENTLY ON
SCHEDULE.
WE ARE A YEAR IN AND WE ARE ON
BUDGET AND HOPEFULLY IT STAYS
THAT WAY AND AND THE JOB IS
GOING REALLY WELL RIGHT NOW.

Steve says WENDY, LET ME BRING
YOU IN ON THESE... AGAIN WE
SHOWED IN THE VERY BEGINNING
HERE, SINCE 1987 43 SO-CALLED
TOXIC HOT SPOTS AREAS OF
CONCERN.
HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE
PROGRESS OR LACK THERE OF THAT'S
BEEN MADE ON ALL OF THOSE HOT
SPOTS SINCE THEN?

Wendy says YOU KNOW, JON AND I
HAVE WORKED TOGETHER, BASICALLY
UNDER WATER QUALITY AGREEMENT
ANNEX AND ON THE U.S. SIDE WE
ARE MOVING THINGS, I THINK, A
LITTLE BIT FASTER THAN WE HAVE
IN THE PAST.
WE HAVE HAD MORE MONEY TO
BASICALLY MOVE PROJECTS, I
THINK.
THE U.S. AREAS OF CONCERN AND
SINCE 2010, SINCE WE HAD OUR
INITIATIVE STARTED WE DELISTED
THREE AREAS OF CONCERN.
SO THAT WAS A HUGE JUMP FORWARD
CONSIDERING FROM 1987 TO THAT
POINT IN TIME WE WERE ONLY ABLE
TO DELIST ONE.
SO THAT IS A BIG STEP FORWARD
FOR THE U.S.
BUT, ON TOP OF THAT WE HAVE FOUR
ADDITIONAL AREAS OF CONCERN
WHERE WE FINISHED WHAT WE CALL
THE ON GROUND, INWATER WORK THIS
NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND NOW WE ARE
IN A MONITORING PHASE, BASICALLY
WATCHING IT SEE WHETHER THE
RESULTS WE HOPE WILL COME OUT OF
ALL THE WORK WE HAVE DONE IN
THOSE AREAS OF CONCERN ARE
ACHIEVED AND WE CAN MOVE TOWARDS
DELISTING AND IT COULD TAKE
SEVERAL YEARS BECAUSE THE
ENVIRONMENT TAKES TIME TO
RECOVER SOMETIMES.

Steve says DAVID, IF I HAVE THE
MATH RIGHT HERE AND MY NUMBERS
ARE RIGHT IN ALMOST 30 YEARS YOU
HAVE DELISTED SEVEN OF THE 43
AREA THAT IS WERE INITIALLY
LISTED AS AREAS OF CONCERN.
SEVEN OF 43.
FOR AN UNTRAINED EAR THAT WON'T
SOUND LIKE A LOT OF PROGRESS.
IS THAT RIGHT?

David says IT'S LIKE I HAVE
BEEN TRYING TO THINK HOW TO
EXPLAIN THIS AND LET ME TRY.
IT'S LIKE YOU HAVE 43 BASEBALL
GAMES GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME
AND YOU HAVE WORK GOING ON ON
ALL 43 OF THOSE SITES OR 43
BASEBALL GAMES AND YOU GET TO
THE 5TH OR 6TH INNING AND SCORE
A BUNCH OF RUNS AND YOU HAVE
DONE A NUMBER OF THINGS AND
IMPROVE THE USAGE OF IT BY DOING
SOME OF THE CLEAN UP.
BUT THE BEAN DOESN'T DROP IN THE
BUCKET UNTIL SOMEONE WINS OR
LOSES THE GAME AT THE END OF THE GAME.
SO A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK
HAS BEEN DONE ON ALL OF THESE,
BUT THIS DELISTING AND
COMPLETION OF ALL OF THE
MANAGEMENT ACTION IS WHEN
SOMETHING IS COUNTED.
SO THERE HAS BEEN A LOT MORE
PROGRESS THAN HAS APPEARED AND
UNFORTUNATELY, SOMEWHERE ALONG
THE LINE, SOMEONE DECIDED THAT
THIS WAS THE PRIMARY WAY,
BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS EASIER TO
COUNT STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT THIS
WAS THE PRIMARY WAY TO JUDGE THE
EFFECTIVENESS OF THE PROGRAM.

Steve says YOU THINK IT DOESN'T
INDICATE HOW MUCH PROGRESS WAS
MADE.

David says ABSOLUTELY NOT.
HUGE AMOUNT.

Jon says THE NUMBER OF
IMPAIRMENTS HAVE DROPPED BY 40 percent
NOW.

Steve says WHAT IS THAT.

Jon says WELL, IN THE
BEGINNING, THERE WAS ABOUT 145,
WHATEVER IT; 65 HAVE BEEN
DECLAIRD NOT IMPAIRED AND 81
REMAIN, WHATEVER THAT ADDS UP
TO.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.
THERE IS ANOTHER 20 WE HAVE TO
MAKE THE DECISION ON.
BUT THOSE 65 CAME AFTER A LARGE
EFFORT AND REPRESENT A REAL
IMPROVEMENT.

Steve says OKAY.
WELL, LAST WEEK, A JOINT
PROGRESS REPORT ON THE GREAT
LAKES WAS RELEASED BY BOTH OF
OUR COUNTRIES AND HERE ARE SE
OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Action on areas of concern. Canada lagging behind?"

Steve reads from the slate and says
SINCE 2012 THE US DELISTED SOME
AREAS OF CONCERN.
AND WILL COMPLETE ACTIONS AT
SOME AREAS.
CANADA'S LIST IS SHORTER.
WE HAVE COMPLETED ACTIONS AT
NIPIGON BAY ON THE NORTH SHORE
OF LAKE SUPERIOR THIS YEAR.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, JON, ACCOUNTS
FOR THE SUCCESS YOU HAVE HAD
SINCE THE LAST PROGRESS REPORT
FOUR YEARS AGO.

Jon says WHAT COUNTS FORu/j THE
SUCCESS IS MOVING FORWARD ON
OF... TEN HAVE BEEN REMOVED IN
THAT THREE YEAR PERIOD SO THAT'S
PROGRESS IN ITSELF AND THERE IS
PROBABLY ANOTHER DOZEN OR SO
THAT WILL COME UP FOR REMOVAL IN
THE NEXT 18 MONTHS.

Steve says I AM SEEING LOTS OF
SUCCESS ON THE AMERICAN SIDE OF
THE BORDER BUT NOT MUCH SUCCESS
ON THE CANADIAN SIDE.

Jon says I DON'T THINK THAT
GIVES YOU A TRUE STORY TO COUNT
DELISTED AOCs.

Wendy says I AGREE WITH JON.
SOMETIMES YOU KNOW, YOU ARE
COMPARING AN APPLE AND ORANGE
WHEN YOU DO THE COUNTING AND
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.
BUT YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY COMPARE
WHAT THE SIZE IS OF THE PROBLEM
IN EACH INDIVIDUAL AOC.
THEY ARE ALL UNIQUE AND TAKE
DIFFERENT TYPES OF ACTIONS,
BASICALLY, TO GET TOñr THAT END.
SOME AREAS OF CONCERN MIGHT
HAVE TWO OR THREE BENEFICIAL
AREAS AND MAYBE YOU CAN ACHIEVE
THAT WORK QUICKER AND OTHERS YOU
CAN TALK... WE HAVE AREAS OF
CONCERN WHERE ALL 14 BENEFICIAL
USES EXIST AND WE ARE WORKING ON
THEM.
IT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE NOT
WORKING ON THEM.
WE ARE.
THEY ARE NOT IN MY COUNT BUT WE
ARE INVESTING MONEY AND DOING
HABITAT RESTORATION.
I THINK IS THERE A BIGGER STORY
THAN THE NUMBERS.
I THINK THE NUMBERS IN AND OF
THEMSELVES SHOW PRO AGREES
BECAUSE THEY SHOW BOTH THE U.S.
AND CANADA ACCELERATING THEIR
EFFORTS PARTICULARLY SINCE THIS
NEW WATER QUALITY AGREEMENT CAME
INTO PLAY.
BUT I THINK THE REAL STORY SP
HYPED ALL THE WORK GOING ON IN
ALL THE AOCs AND THE
BENEFICIAL USE IMPAIRMENTS
TELL THAT STORY BETTER.
SO THE FACT YOU CONTINUE TO
REMOVE BENEFICIAL USE
IMPAIRMENTS MEANS YOU ARE
ACTUALLY MAKING PROGRESS ON
AOCs, AREAS OF CONCERN WHERE
YOU ARE NOT NECESSARILY
ACHIEVING THAT END COUNTING
POINT WHERE YOU HAVE COMPLETED
THE WORK OR ACTUALLY GETTING TO
DELISTING.

Steve says CHRIS?

Chris says OUR JOB AT BARC, THE
ORGANIZATION CAME OUT OF THE
INITIAL CITIZENS MOVEMENT IN THE
NORTH END OF HAMILTON, 45 YEARS
AGO.
THE FIRST PEOPLE TO LOOK OUT
THEIR WINDOW INTO THE BAY AT THE
DUMPING AND THE POLLUTION AND
SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
OUR JOB IS NOT TO... WE HAVE AN
INTERESTING ROLE ACTUALLY.
OUR JOB IS NOT TO APOLOGIZE FOR
THE NUMBERS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN
GIVEN.
I SEE OUR JOBw3 AS A HONEST BROR
OF INFORMATION.
COMMUNICATIONS, A VEHICLE FOR
COMMUNICATIONS TO THE COMMUNITY
THAT'S NONGOVERNMENTAL AND I
WOULD AGREE IN LARGE PART, WHAT
THIS DISCUSSION HIGHLIGHTS IS
THE DIFFICULTY IN EXPLAINING THE
COMPLEXITY OF THE TASK TO THE
GENERAL PUBLIC, WHICH MAY OR MAY
NOT DIP THEIR MINDS INTO THESE
ISSUES VERY OFTEN.
THEY SEE HIGHLIGHTS LIKE YOU
HAVE JUST SUGGESTED.
IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE THIS
IS... ALL OF THESE REMEDIAL
ACTION PLANS AND RECOVERY OF
THESE AREAS ARE WORKS IN
PROGRESS.
AND, I THINK THEY ARE A LOT MORE
PROGRESS.
TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK
AND NOT THAT WE APOLOGIZE FOR
THOSE THINGS BUT WE HAVE TO GIVE
THE PROCESS ENOUGH GRACE TO
ALLOW ELECTED OFFICIALS, FOR
EXAMPLE, TO FUND EXPERIMENTS IN
POLICY AND TO MAKE SOME
MISTAKES, TO SPEND MORE THAN
SEEMS REASONABLE TO THE
UNTRAINED EYE, PERHAPS.
BECAUSE I THINK AS YOU POINTED
OUT, DAVID, FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING, THESE WERE NOT SEEN
AS NEARLY AS COMPLEX, CERTAINLY
SPEAK FOR HAMILTON HARBOUR.
THE RANDALL REEF PROJECT STARTED OUT.

Jon says 1988.

Chris says TWO AGO MAGNITUDES
SMALLER... WE ARE TALKING THREE
PROFESSIONAL HOCKEY ARENAS IN
TERMS OF THE VOLUME OF STEERL WE
ARE DEALING WITH THERE AND GOING
BACK TO THE LATE 1980s WE HAD
NO IDEA THERE WAS THAT MUCH
MATERIAL THERE AND THE GREAT
LAKES AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO
COUNSEL TRIPS HAS EVOLVED AND
RECOGNIZED THROUGH NEW SCIENCE
AND NEW POLICY TOOLS, THE
REMIEWNAL ACTION PLAN IS AN
INNOVATION TO RECOGNIZE NEW
REALTS.

Steve says LET ME JUMP IN
HERE.
WITH TIME RUNNING OUT AND YOU
ARE ALL IN TOWN FOR THE GREAT
LAKES FORUM HAPPENING DOWN AT
EXHIBITION PLACE IN THE AL
STREAM CENTRE.
AND I WANT TO PLAY A TAPE FROM
THIS BECAUSE THE VERY FIRST AREA
OF CONCERN TO BE REMOVED FROM
THE LIST WAS HERE IN CANADA, TWO
HOURS NORTH OF THIS STUDIO,
COLLINGWOOD HARBOUR AND GAME WAS
A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE
RESTORATION OF COLLINGWOOD
HARBOUR AND TVO WAS DOWN AT THE
ALL STREAM CENTRE AND SHE
INTERVIEWED GAME ABOUT THOSE
EFFORTS AND WE WANT TO PLAY A
SNIPPET OF THAT CONVERSATION.

The caption changes to "Cleaning up Collingwood Harbour."
Then, a clip plays on screen in which an unseen woman interviews a woman in her forties in what appears to be a community centre.

The interviewer says
WHY DO YOU THINK
THE PROGRAMS DELIST OF
COLLINGWOOD WAS SUCCESSFUL.

The woman replies
COLLINGWOOD IS A SPECIAL PLACE.
THERE IS SAY PASSION IN THE
PEOPLE OF COLLINGWOOD.

A caption appears on screen. It reads ".Gail Krantzberg. McMaster University."

Gail continues THEY BELIEVE THEY LIVE... THEY
DO BELIEVE AND THEY DO LIVE ON
THE PRISTINE WATERS OF GEORGIAN
BAY.
THEY HAVE A RE"UTIFUL HARBOUR.
THEY HAVE BLUE MOUNTAIN BEHIND
THEM.
BOATERS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
SUMMER, GO SKIING AT LUNCH TILE
AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PLACE AND
IT WAS NOT ON THEIR AGENDA TO BE
A TOXIC HOT SPOT.
THEY WERE STUNNED BY IT,
STARTLED BY IT AND ANYTHING THEY
COULD DO TO MAKE THAT VISION OF
THE HEALTHY, THRIVING COMMUNITY
COME TO LIFE, THEY WOULD
DEDICATE DOING THAT.
EVERYBODY IN TOWN GOT TO KNOW WE
ARE WORKING COLLABORATIVELY TO
MAKE THE HARBOUR HEALTHY AND.

The interviewer says SO THEY WERE CONNECTED?

Gail says TOWN COUNCIL... WE HAD THE
MAYOR AS ONE OF THE CITIZENS
SITTING AROUND THE TABLE SAYING
LçÑ.
WHATr?
WE HAD RADIO SHOWS AND IN THE
NEWSPAPERS AND ALWAYS HAD A
VOICE OUT, TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO
GUILTY INVOLVED, HOW THEY CAN
HELP US BRING THE HARBOUR BACK
IT LIFE.
AND IT WAS A SUCCESS BECAUSE
EVERYBODY GOT ENGAGED AND
EVERYBODY WANTED TO MAKE THE
HARBOUR GREAT.

The interviewer says IT'S A BIG DEAL
TO BE DELISTXñ BECAUSE SINCE 197
ONLY THREE AREAS OF CONCERN HAVE
BEEN DELISTED IN CANADA.

Gail says THEREELISTED?
ARE A FEW REASONS FOR
THAT.
IN SOME SITUATIONS, THE DEGREE
OF DEGRADATION HAS BEEN GOING ON
FOR A LONG TIME.
HUGE INDUSTRIAL FACILITIES
NEEDING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS, AND THAT MONEY IS HARD
TO FIND.
IN SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES THEY
WEREN'T ENGAGED.
THEY ARE A SMALLER AND SIMPLER
PROBLEMS TO SOLVE THAN WE HAD IN
COLLINGWOOD BUT THE CITIZENS ARE
NOT INVOLVED BUT THERE IS NO
SENSE OF VISION OR PASSION.
YOU NEED THE LEADERSHIP, YOU
NEED THE PASSION, YOU NEED THE
COMMUNICATION.
YOU ALSO, IDEALLY, DON'T HAVE TO
SPEND BILLIONS ON
INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IS WHAT
WE HAVE TO DO IN THE CITY OF
TORONTO FOR EXAMPLE.
THE CITY OF TORONTO AND REGION
IS AN AREA OF CONCERN BUT THE
AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT AND TIME,
IT WILL BE MUCH LONGER.

The clip ends.

Steve says IF THERE IS ONE
THAING WE HAVE REALLY LEARNED
THIS WEEK... ONE THING THAT WE
HAVE REALLY LEARNED THIS WEEK,
WE TAKE THE GREAT LAKES FOR
GRANTED.
AND I HEAR IT IN THAT ANSWER
THERE AND YOU PROBABLY ALL SEE
IT IN YOUR WORK.
TO GET DECISION MAKERS TO MOVE,
ENGAGEMENT, HOW KEY IS THAT?

David says ESSENTIAL AND I
REMEMBER MAYOR DAILY SAYING WE
TAKE THESE LAKES FOR GRANTED AND
WE CANNOT DO THAT.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT DALE MENTIONED ON THE
COMMUNITY INVOLVE THE AND THE
MAYOR BEING AT THE TABLE THERE,
THEY ARE THERE INTERACTING WITH
THE COMMUNITY, BEING HELD
ACCOUNTABLE BY THE COMMUNITY,
BEING PART OF ENJOYING THE
RESOURCE, AND GETTING THAT KIND
OF ENGAGEMENT, I THINK, REALLY
WORKS WELL.

Steve says MY FOLLOW UP TO
CHRIS THEN IS HOW DO YOU MAKE
THAT HAPPEN?

Chris says NOT EASILY, THAT'S
FOR SURE.
THERE IS CERTAINLY... THERE IS A
MOUNTAIN OF PERCEPTION TO
OVERCOME.
FOR 50 YEARS, THE WHOLE COUNTRY
HAS FLOWN INTO TORONTO, RENTED A
CAR TO GO TO NIAGARA AND THEY
HAVE SEEN THE BAY AND THE CITY
TWICE FROM THE BRIDGE AND THEY
SEE A WHOLE LOT OFñr MORDOR AND
NOT MUCH MUSKOKA.
BUT A LOT OF MUSKOKA EXISTS WHEN
YOU GET UP INTO THE WEST END AND
THE MARSH.

Steve says IN HAMILTON.

Chris says YES, IN HAMILTON.
THE MARSH AND PART... I THINK
THE BIG CHALLENGE VERY
CONNECTING PEOPLE THAT
PHYSICALLY AND SUBSEQUENTLY
PSYCHOLOGICALLY, THE COMMUNITY
WAS CUT OFF FROM THE BAY.
A DELIBERATE DECISION WAS MADE
TO REPLACE THOSE LOW LYING
COASTAL WET LANDS ON WHAT IS
WITH INDUSTRY ON THE SOUTH SHORE
AND STEEL MILLS WENT WHERE THERE
WAS ONCE WILDLIFE.
AND FOLLOWING THAT, LITERALLY, A
CHAIN LINK FENCE WENT UP FROM
THE WEST END, IN THE WEST END TO
THE EAST.
AND THE COMMUNITY WAS CUT OFF,
LITERALLY AND FIGURATIVELY.
I WOULD LIKE... LIKELY OVER
GENERATIONS THAT HAD A HUGE
EFFECT AND A LOT OF OUR WORK IN
TERMS OF HAVINGÑi WORKSHOPS AND
COMMUNITY EVENTS TO CELEBRATE
SUCCESS AND REENGAGE PEOPLE, GET
PEOPLE LITERALLY IN THE MARSH
PLANTING CATTAILS WHICH IS SAY
WYLIE SATISFYING EXERCISE IN
COMMUNITY BUILDING AND WE ALSO
GO OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY.
WE TEACH... OUR PROGRAMS IN
SCHOOLS REACH THOUSANDS OF KIDS
A YEAR AND YOU ALLUDED EARLIER
TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS GOING
TO TAKE A LONG TIME BECAUSE TO
FIX THESE PROBLEMS BECAUSE THE
PROBLEMS TOOK A LONG TIME TO
CREATE.

Steve says THROW SOME MORE
NUMBERS UP HERE IN HOPES OF
PAINTING A BROADER PICTURE.
IN 2007... FOLLOW ME HERE.
IN 2007 ENVIRONMENT CANADA
ESTIMATED CLEANUP COSTS FOR ALL
THE CANADIAN AREAS OF CONCERN AT
THREE-AND-A-HALF BILLION DOLLARS.

A slate pops up that reads "Inadequate funding?"

Steve reads from the slate and says
IN A SECTION OF THE REPORT
CALLED INADEQUATE FUNDING, IN
THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION OF
ONTARIO'S ANNUAL REPORT FROM A
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, HERE IS
WHAT WE LEARNED THAT
CANADA-ONTARIO GREAT LAKES
ACTION PLAN HAS AN ANNUAL BUDGET
OF 9.3 MILLION dollars.
IT ALSO NOTED THAT THIS BUDGET
DOES NOT INCLUDE PROVINCIAL
INVESTMENTS AND INFRASTRUCTURE
FOR WATER AND WASTE WATER OR
FUNDS DEDICATED TO THE HAMILTON
HARBOUR AREA OF CONCERN.
I KNOW WE HAVE NO POLITICIAN
SITTING AT THIS TABLE BUT I HAVE
TO ASK ANYWAY, JON, COME IN HERE.
ARE WE INADEQUATELY FUND BEING THE JOB?

The caption changes to "Finding funding."

Jon says THE 9 MILLION IS THE
PROVINCIAL CONTRIBUTION AND
CANADA'S GREAT LAKES ACTION PLAN
IS CURRENTLY 8 MILLION dollars PER YEAR
ONGOING BUT THAT'S A SPLAL
PIECE AND THAT FACILITATES
COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT, RAP
OFFICES AND SO ON.
IN ALL OF THE CANADIAN AOCs TO
DATE THE EXPENDITURE IS
1.4 BILLION.
THE INVESTMENT IN SEDIMENT
REMEDIATION IS CLOSE TO
200 MILLION.
IF YOU ADD UP ALL THE REST OF
THE ECOLOGICAL RESTORATION
PROJECT THAT'S AROUND THE
150 MILLION OR SO.
SO THOSE NUMBERS ARE A SMALL
SLICE BUT IT'S A MUCH BIGGER
EXPENDITURE THERE AND MORE TO COME.

Steve says HERE IS THE FOLLOW
UP QUESTION.
OBVIOUSLY FOR THIS TO WORK, YOUR
COUNTRY AND OUR COUNTRY HAVE TO
WORK EXTREMELY WELL TOGETHER.
OTHERWISE WE ARE SPITTING INTO
THE WIND.
HOW WELL DO YOU AND YOUR
CANADIAN COUNTER PARTS WORK.

David says EXTREMELY.

Steve says REALLY.

David says EXCEPT DURING THE
STANLEY CUP FINAL, ABSOLUTELY,
TOTALLY HONEST, WITHIN OUR
ORGANIZATION, WE HAVE NEVER HAD
A CANADIAN-U.S. STANDOFF ON THINGS.
AND I HAVE WORKED CLOSELY WITH
CANADIANS FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS
AND IN SOME RESPECTS I WORK
BETTER WITH THEM THAN SOME
PEOPLE FROM THE U.S.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: @theagenda, TVO.org, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram."

Steve says DO TELL.
WELL I ASK THE QUESTION BECAUSE
TODAY AT THE GREAT LAKES PUBLIC
FORUM WHICH YOU ARE
PARTICIPATING IN, CHUCK LAWSON
FROM THE COMMISSION SAID "I
DON'T THINK THERE IS VERY MUCH
CO-ORDINATION BETWEEN THESE
SHARED AREAS OF CONCERN."
THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.

David says THAT IS VERY INTERESTING
BECAUSE I THIS MORNING
COMMUNICATED WAY INDIVIDUAL WHO
WORKS FOR EPA DOWN IN THE
DETROIT AREA, AND SHE SAID THAT
SHE BELIEVES THAT THE
CO-ORDINATION ON THE DETROIT
RIVER AIR YEAH, BETWEEN THE U.S.
AND THE CANADIAN SIDE, IS
EXCELLENT.

Steve says WENDY, WHAT'S YOUR
EXPERIENCE.

The caption changes to "Together or separate?"

Wendy says MY EXPERIENCE IS
THAT WE ACTUALLY DO MORE
CO-ORDINATION AND WE ACTUALLY
RESPONDED TO HIS REMARK AS PART
OF THE FORUM AS WELL.
BUT, WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT IN
PLACE BETWEEN THE U.S. AND
CANADA AND HOW WE ARE GOING TO
CO-ORDINATE IN THOSE AREAS OF
CONCERN.
THEY ARE CONSIDERED BY NATIONAL,
WHETHER JOINTLY OWNED BY THE
U.S. AND CANADA.
AND I THINK THAT THE PROCESS
WORKS PRETTY WELL.
THERE IS A BI--NATIONAL PUBLIC
ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR EACH ONE
OF THOSE AREAS OF CONCERN WHERE
PEOPLE FROM CANADA AND THE U.S.
JOINT LACE A COMMUNITY ARE
WORKING THROUGH THE ISSUES AND
WORKING WITH US JOINTLYdA AS
AGENCIES AND TRYING TO MOVE
THOSE ACTIONS FORWARD.

Steve says BUT IS THE RACE ON
IN SOME RESPECTS?
DO YOU INNORMALLY THINK TO
YOURSELF, I WANT MY AMERICAN
SIDE AREAS OF CONCERN OFF THE
LIST BEFORE THE CANADIAN SIDE.

Wendy says THAT'S NOT THE WAY
WE WORK IN THE U.S. AT ALL, NO.
WE HAVE... FOR US, THE KEY FOR
MOVING MONEY TO AN AREA OF
CONCERN IS THAT THE AREA OF
CONCERN IS READY FOR IT.
SO OUR MESSAGE IS GET READY.
DEFINE YOUR SPECIFIC ACTIONS,
THE SPECIFIC LOCATIONS AND HOW
MUCH YOU THINK THEY WILL COST
AND WHAT THE PICTURE OF THE AOC
LOOKS LIKE AND WHEN AOCs AND
COMMUNITIES COME TOGETHER AND
THEY CAN GET TO THAT SPECIFIC OF
A LIST OF PROJECTS, WE HAVE
TRIED TO WORK WITH THEM IN TERMS
OF FINDING RESOURCES IN A GIVEN
YEAR TO MOVE THEIR AREA OF
CONCERN ALONG.
WE HAVE AREAS OF CONCERN THAT
ARE IN DIFFERENT STAGES.
MANY OF THEM DID THE WORK IN
THEIR REMEDIAL ACTION PLAN BUT
THEY WEREN'T SPECIFIC ONED
ISMENTS NEEDING DREDGED.
KEEP IN MIND THE AREAS ARE
GEOGRAPHICALLY LARGE.
THEY COVER A LARGE AREA.
YOU MIGHT BE DOING FIVE, SIX,
SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, TEN PROJECTS
WITHIN THE AREA OF CONCERN TO
GET TO THAT END GOAL.

Steve says CHRIS I HAVE HALF A
MINUTE LEFT I WANT TO GIVE IT TO YOU.
IT WAS A LITTLE MORE THAN 40
YEARS AGO WHEN GEORGE KERR WAS
THE ENVIRONMENT MINISTER AND HE
LOST THE BET AND HAD TO SWIM IN
HAMILTON BAY TO SHOW HOW CLEAN
IT WAS.
IT WASN'T A GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR
HIM BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHEN DO
YOU THINK HAMILTON HARBOUR WILL
BE SWIMMABLE, DRINKABLE AND
FISHABLE AGAIN?

Chris says DRINKABLE, WE GET
OUR WATER FROM LAKE ON THE.

Steve says SO WE ARE ALREADY THERE.

The caption changes to "Chris McLaughlin, @TheBackloop"

Chris says WE ARE ALREADY
THERE.
FISHABLE IS MORE UP IN THE AIR.
STUDIES ARE ONGOING ABOUT THE
HEALTH OF THE FISH.
THERE ARE NUMEROUS INVASIVE
SPECIES CAUSING ISSUES WITH THE
RESTORATION OF THE NATIVE FISH
POPULATION AND IN TERMS OF
SWIMMING, THIS IS REALLY THE BEE
IN MY
I WANTNET.
TO REPEAT, YOU CAN SAFELY
GO IN HAMILTON HARBOUR IN MANY
PLACES MOST OF THE TIME.
THE BIG PROBLEM ARE THE TWO
ARTIFICIAL BEACHES
UNFORTUNATELY.
THEY ARE NOT CREATED BY MOTHER
NATURE.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE WATER
CIRCULATION IT REMOVE THE
BACTERIA THAT RE VENTS PEOPLE
GOING IN.
THAT'S AN ONGOING ISSUE AND
UNFORTUNATELY IS CREATING ONE OF
THOSE PERCEPTION ISSUES ABOUT
SWIMMING IN THE BAY.

The caption changes to "Producer: Eric Bombicino, @ebombicino"

Steve says HOPEFULLY WE HAVE
DONE SOMETHING OVER THE HOUR TO
TALK MORE ABOUT FACTS AND
PERCEPTION AND I THANK YOU ALL
FOR SPARING YOUR TIME TO COME TO
OUR STUDIOS HERE AND FILL US IN.
THANKS, EVERYBODY.

Wendy says THANK YOU.

Watch: The Great Lakes: Areas of Concern