Transcript: The Future is Driverless | May 24, 2016

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and pin-dotted purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "The future is driverless."

Steve says FOR DECADES, CARS HAVE
REMAINED PRETTY MUCH THE SAME:
FOUR TIRES, AN ENGINE, AND A
DRIVER.
BUT A HANDFUL OF COMPANIES SUCH
AS TESLA AND GOOGLE ARE WORKING
HARD TO TAKE THE DRIVER OUT OF
THE EQUATION WITH AUTONOMOUS
VEHICLES.
SO, WHAT DOES A FUTURE WITH
DRIVERLESS CARS MEAN FOR
INFRASTRUCTURE, PUBLIC TRANSIT
AND URBAN SPRAWL?
LET'S ASK:
STEVEN DEL DUCA, MINISTER OF
TRANSPORTATION, AND THE LIBERAL
MPP FOR VAUGHAN;

Steven Del Duca is in his forties, clean-shaven and bald. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt and striped gray tie.

Steve continues PHILIPPE CRIST, ECONOMIST AND
ADMINISTRATOR AT THE
INTERNATIONAL TRANSPORT FORUM AT
THE OECD, THE ORGANIZATION FOR
ECONOMIC COOPERATION AND
DEVELOPMENT;

Philippe is in his late thirties, with short side-parted blond hair and a shadow of a beard. he's wearing glasses, a blue coat and white shirt.

Steve continues CHERISE BURDA, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF RYERSON UNIVERSITY'S
CITY BUILDING INSTITUTE;

Cherise is in her late thirties, with long wavy blond hair. She's wearing a dark gray blazer over a red and blue dress.

Steve continues AND STEPHEN BUCKLEY, GENERAL
MANAGER FOR TRANSPORTATION
SERVICES FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO.

Stephen Buckley is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and striped blue and red tie.

Steve continues I'M HAPPY TO WELCOME ALL FOUR OF
YOU HERE TO TVO.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE... YOU KNOW
WHAT?
THEY CAN'T DO THESE T.V.
PROGRAMS, THANKFULLY,
AUTONOMOUSLY WITHOUT A HOST.
WE'RE NOT THERE YET.

Philippe says YET.

Steve says YET.
BUT APPARENTLY, DRIVERLESS CARS
ARE COMING.
TAKE A LOOK AT THE MONITORS IN
HERE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT
YET THRILLED WITH THE NOTION OF
AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES.
ROLL TAPE.

A clip plays on screen. In the clip, a woman in her seventies sits in a moving driverless car looking terrified.

She says OWNER'S CAR COMING.
OH!
PUT IT BACK FOR ME TO DRIVE IT.
OH, DEAR.
[Bleep]
I COULD NEVER.
AH!

The clip ends.

The caption changes to "Cars of tomorrow."

Steve says YES, THERE WILL BE A
BIT OF AN ADJUSTMENT AS WE TRY
TO FIGURE OUT HAVING SOMEBODY
ELSE DO THE DRIVING.
LET'S FOLLOW UP THAT WITH THIS...

A quote appears on screen, under the title WA changing commute." The quote reads "It's 7:20 a.m. on a Monday in the not-too-distant future. You wake up, and realize you've overslept. It's a two-hour commute to work, so you call your boss and tell her you'll start working on the way.
A quick shower and you're out the door. There's no car in your driveway.
You realize you forgot to order one.
A quick tap on your phone, and two minutes later an empty car drives up. You get in and pull out your laptop. For the next two hours, you're immersed in work as your car takes you to the office. Once you arrive, you'll order another car to pick up your kids –who've hopefully woken up by now- and drive them to school. Another car will pick them up and drive them home in time to have dinner with you. This is a day in a very possible future in Toronto. The technology that will get us there –driverless cars- is already starting to change how we live.
Quoted from Oliver Sachgau, Toronto Star, May 10, 2015.

Steve says PHILIPPE, YOU'VE
COME THE FARTHEST SO I WANT TO
ASK YOU FIRST.
HOW ACCURATE IS THAT FUTURE?

The caption changes to "Philippe Crist. OECD."

Phillipe says I THINK
IT'S ONE OF THE MANY POSSIBLE FUTURES.
I'LL SAY ONE THING.
IF THERE'S A TWO-HOUR COMMUTE,
WE HAVEN'T ACHIEVED THE
POTENTIAL OF AUTOMATED VEHICLE
DRIVING.
ONE THING WE CAN SEE IS WITH THE
ARRIVAL OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES,
WE CAN HAVE MUCH MORE USE OF
CITY SPACE.
THE WORK WE'VE DONE IS HOW THEY
COULD ROLL OUT, THIS IS ONE
SCENARIO, THERE ARE OTHERS AS
WELL, WE COULD SEE A DRAMATIC
REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF
VEHICLES USED IN THE CITY AND A
REDUCTION IN TRAVEL IN THE CITY.
THAT IS A GOOD SCENARIO.
I THINK THE CITY OF TORONTO HAS
WORKED ON SOME OF THESE
SCENARIOS AS WELL BUT THERE ARE
DYSTOPIAN SCENARIOS, WHERE
PEOPLE USE CARS VERY MUCH LIKE
THEY OWN AND USE CARS TODAY
EXCEPT WITHOUT THE DRIVER.
YOU HAVE THE DOG BEING DRIVEN TO
THE VET, THE CHILDREN, LIKE WE
HEARD, BEING DRIVEN TO SCHOOL.
WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT AS
WE SEE THESE TECHNOLOGIES ROLL
OUT ON THE GROUND, EVERYTHING
ELSE WILL BE CHANGING AT THE
SAME TIME.
SO IT'S UNREALISTIC TO EXPECT
THAT WE WILL JUST HAVE A
SELF-DRIVING VEHICLE USED MUCH
AS WE DO TODAY.
THIS TYPE OF SCENARIO I THINK IS
PROBABLY MORE LIKELY.
BUT THERE ARE EVEN GREATER, MORE
OPTIMISTIC SCENARIOS.

Steve says WHICH WE'LL GET INTO
DURING THE COURSE OF OUR
DISCUSSIONS.
THIS FIELD, CHERISE, FAR IN THE
FUTURE.
WHY DO WE NEED TO BE TALKING
ABOUT IT NOW?

The caption changes to "Cherise Burda. Ryerson City Building Institute."

Cherise says WE NEED TO
GET AHEAD OF IT IN PLANNING AND
ASKING THE QUESTION, HOW DO WE
USE THIS TECHNOLOGY TO HELP MAKE
OUR CITIES BETTER THAN SIMPLY
LETTING THIS TECHNOLOGY HAPPEN
TO US, AND SO MOVING FORWARD
FROM WHAT PHILIPPE WAS SAYING,
ANOTHER SCENARIO FOR THIS TYPE
OF TECHNOLOGY IS NOT THAT IT
PROVIDES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR
PEOPLE TO LIVE FURTHER AND
FURTHER AWAY AND DRIVE MORE, BUT
MAYBE IT COULD BE USED TO FILL
SOME OF THE GAPS WE HAVE IN OUR
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE TALK A LOT
ABOUT SERVING THE LAST MILE.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN...

Steve says WHAT DOES THAT REFER
TO, THE LAST MILE?

Cherise says SURE.
WHEN THE TRANSIT STATION OR THE
GO STATION, YOU CAN'T REALLY GET
TO YOUR HOME OR TO YOUR OFFICE
FROM THERE.
MAYBE THERE'S A SLOW BUS BUT
MAYBE YOU HAVE TO PARK AT THE GO
STATION.
SO THESE TYPES OF TECHNOLOGIES
COULD FILL UP THOSE
TRANSPORTATION GAPS AND ACTUALLY
HELP BOOST RIDERSHIP AND TAKE
CARS OFF THE ROAD.

Steve says STEPHEN, HOW MUCH IS
THE CITY OF TORONTO THINKING
ABOUT HOW AVs, AUTONOMOUS
VEHICLES, MIGHT DO TO THE
FUTURE?

The caption changes to "Stephen Buckley. City of Toronto."

Stephen Buckley says WE LOOKED
AT THIS 18 MONTHS AGO AND BARRY
KIRK, AN EXPERT ON THIS, CAME TO
SPEAK TO MANY CITY DIVISIONS ON
THE ISSUE, SO WE'RE PREPARING
BASICALLY TO LOOK AT, WE DON'T
KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO
LOOK LIKE.
SO WE ENGAGED THE UNIVERSITY OF
TORONTO TO PREPARE A WHITE PAPER
FOR US.
IN THAT WE OUTLINED TWO
POTENTIAL FUTURES, ONE THAT THE
CARS ARE PRIVATELY OWNED BY
INDIVIDUALS.
A SECOND MODEL WE SEE COMING
FORWARD AND COMPANIES LIKE
GOOGLE AND UBER AND THOSE SORTS
OF COMPANIES IS TRANSPORTATION
AS A SERVICE OR A SHARED
MOBILITY MODEL.
YOU CAN THINK OF IT PERHAPS AS
ROBO TAXIS.
IF WE GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,
IT COULD HAVE VERY DIFFERENT
OUTCOMES FOR CITIES.
THAT'S THE SORT OF PIECE WE WANT
TO REALLY GET OUR HEADS AROUND.
WHAT WE LIKELY SEE IS PROBABLY
BOTH OF THESE MODELS WILL MOVE
FORWARD OVER THE NEXT DECADE OR
SO.

Steve says LET ME ASK STEVEN
DEL DUCA BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE
PROVINCE-WIDE PERSPECTIVE.
YOU'VE MADE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS
WORTH OF ANNOUNCEMENT FOR PUBLIC
TRANSIT, THERE ARE HIGHWAY
CONSTRUCTIONS GOING ON.
HOW MUCH MIGHT AUTONOMOUS
VEHICLES AFFECT ALL OF THE
ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT YOU'VE MADE?

The caption changes to "Steven Del Duca. Minister of Transportation."

Steven Del Duca says I THINK
THERE'S NO DOUBT THERE IS
POTENTIAL THERE FOR SIGNIFICANT
DISRUPTION AS WE GO FORWARD,
ESPECIALLY GIVEN WHAT WE'VE JUST
HEARD HERE SO FAR WITH THE START
OF THIS CONVERSATION.
I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT THE
INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS WE'RE
MAKING IN TRANSIT AND
TRANSPORTATION, PARTICULARLY IN
THE GREATER TORONTO AND HAMILTON
AREA, ARE CRUCIAL BECAUSE
THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT CATCHUP
THAT WE ARE INVOLVED IN RIGHT
NOW BECAUSE OF CHRONIC YEARS OF
UNDERINVESTMENT OR A NUMBER OF
YEARS OF UNDERINVESTMENT.
HAVING SAID THAT, PART OF MY
MANDATE, PART OF MY
RESPONSIBILITY IS TO ADVANCE
THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, THE
NOTION OF AUTOMATED VEHICLES.
WE ARE NOW THE FIRST PROVINCE IN
CANADA THAT PERMITS THE TESTING
OF AUTOMATED VEHICLES ON OUR
ROADS AND HIGHWAYS.

Steve says WHEN IS THAT GOING
TO HAPPEN?

Steven Del Duca says IT'S
ALREADY IN EFFECT RIGHT NOW.
THEORETICALLY RIGHT NOW, ANY
ENTITY THAT QUALIFIES COULD
APPLY TO THE MINISTRY OF
TRANSPORTATION AND COULD BE
TESTING THEIR TECHNOLOGY ON OUR
ROADS AND HIGHWAYS WITHIN
CERTAIN CONSIDERATIONS THAT ARE
GIVEN WITH RESPECT TO SAFETY,
FOR EXAMPLE.
AND WE'VE HAD A TON OF INTEREST
AND EXCITEMENT FROM BOTH THE
AUTO SECTOR AND OUR EDUCATIONAL
RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS, AND I
EXPECT THAT WE'LL SEE
PARTICIPANTS IN THIS PILOT IN
THE NEAR FUTURE.
BUT IT HELPS DEMONSTRATE
ONTARIO, WITHIN THE CANADIAN
CONTEXT, AS LEADING.
AGAIN FIRST PROVINCE IN CANADA
TO DO THIS.
A NUMBER OF STATES SOUTH OF THE
BORDER ARE ALREADY DOING IT.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE AT
THE TABLE WITH RESPECT TO
TRANSPORTATION BUT ALSO WITH
RESPECT TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
AND LURING INVESTMENT TO HELP
CREATE JOBS IN THIS FUTURE GOING
FORWARD.

Steve says LET'S DIVE DEEPER
INTO SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES
THAT AVs RAISE, STARTING WITH
OWNERSHIP.
BECAUSE, WELL, CERTAINLY I'M OF
A GENERATION WHERE AS SOON AS
YOU TURN 16, ONE OF THE THINGS
YOU WANTED TO DO WAS GET YOUR
LICENCE ON DAY ONE AND BUY A CAR
AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AFTER THAT.
WHETHER WE'RE POTENTIALLY
LOOKING AT A FUTURE WHERE CAR
OWNERSHIP IS REALLY NOT THAT
SAME KIND OF PRIORITY IS ONE OF
THE THINGS WE NEED TO DISCUSS.
THE NOTION OF A CAR AS FREEDOM.
HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET PEOPLE
OUT OF THE MINDSET THAT
AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES REPRESENT
SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
ON THAT FRONT?

The caption changes to "Shared ownership."

Cherise says RIGHT.
WELL, I THINK THAT IT'S CHANGING
ALREADY.
WE'VE SEEN THAT A LOT OF
MILLENNIALS ARE CHOOSING TO LIVE
IN CITIES WHERE THEY CAN WALK,
WHERE THEY CAN TAKE TRANSIT,
THEY CAN RIDE THEIR BIKES, AND
AS SENIORS ARE GETTING OLDER,
THEY DON'T WANT TO BE ISOLATED
WHEN IT'S MORE DIFFICULT TO
DRIVE.
WE'RE STARTING TO BUILD OUR
NEIGHBOURHOODS AND OUR
COMMUNITIES SO THAT THEY'RE MORE
INTENSIFIED.
WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW THIS
TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY CAN HELP
ACHIEVE THOSE GOALS, OF MORE
INTENSIFICATION, MORE WALKABLE
COMMUNITIES, MORE TRANSIT AND
HOW THINGS LIKE AVs AND SHARED
AVs CAN SUPPORT THAT.
I WOULD SAY THAT IN THE YOUNGER
GENERATION, EVEN IN MY OLDER
GENERATION, I SEE FREEDOM AS NOT
HAVING TO OWN A CAR AND TAKE
CARE OF IT AND PARK IT AND...

Steve says PAY THE INSURANCE ON IT.

Cherise says... THINK
ABOUT IT.
IT'S SUCH A PAIN.
I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE
ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE SIMPLER.

Steve says IT'S AN INTERESTING
AND DIFFERENT FRAME, PHILIPPE,
BECAUSE OF COURSE MOST OF OUR
CARS SIT IN PARKING LOTS OR OUR
DRIVEWAYS FOR 23 HOURS A DAY OR
22 HOURS A DAY AND DO ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING AT ALL.
BUT THIS NOTION OF A CAR AS
FREEDOM, OF A CAR AS SOMETHING
WE OWN, TO HAVE FREEDOM, HOW DO
WE CHANGE THAT MINDSET.

Phillipe says LET'S KEEP
IN MIND MOST CARS ARE USED LESS
THAN 50 MINUTES A DAY.
CARS PROVIDE A LOT OF
CONVENIENCE.
PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO OVERINVEST
IN A CAR IN ORDER TO HAVE IT
ACCESSIBLE WHEN THEY NEED IT.
AND BEFORE, THAT WAS THE ONLY
WAY YOU COULD HAVE ACCESS TO A
CAR IS TO OWN IT OR HAVE A
FAMILY MEMBER WHO OWNS IT.
NOW WE'RE NOT IN THAT WORLD
ANYMORE.
WE'RE IN A WORLD WHERE YOU CAN
ACCESS A CAR JUST LIKE YOU WOULD
ACCESS A BUS, LIKE YOU WOULD
ACCESS THE METRO.
YOU GO TO IT, YOU CALL IT, IT
COMES TO YOU.
RIGHT NOW WITH A DRIVER, MAYBE
LATER WITHOUT A DRIVER.
WHAT CHERISE WAS SAYING, PEOPLE
IN CITIES ARE FINDING IT AS EASY
TO LIVE WITHOUT A CAR AS WITH A
CAR.
IN THAT WORLD THE AUTOMATED
VEHICLE BECOMES MORE A
UTILITARIAN OBJECT THAT IS USED
FOR WHEN WE WANT THAT TYPE OF
TRANSPORT SERVICE AS OPPOSED TO
TAKING A BIKE SHARE, AS OPPOSED
TO WALKING, AS OPPOSED TO TAKING
THE TRAIN.
THE ONE AREA WHERE THIS TYPE OF
TECHNOLOGY WILL BE VERY
DISRUPTIVE WILL BE IN LOWER
DENSITY BUS SERVICES.
I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
HOW THIS TYPE OF SHARED OR NOT
SELF-DRIVING VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY
CAN BE A NEW FORM AND PART OF A
NEW WAY OF ACCESSING PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION.

Steve says BEFORE WE GO THERE,
I DO WANT TO GET IN THE MINISTER
IN ON THIS.
YOU REPRESENT VAUGHAN ONE OF
THOSE 905 RIDINGS.
HOW MANY HOMES ON YOUR STREET?

Steven Del Duca says TWELVE, I
BELIEVE, YEAH.

Steve says HOW MANY CARS IN
THOSE TWELVE HOMES?

Steven Del Duca says MORE THAN
TWELVE, I WOULD SAY BETWEEN 25
AND 30.

Steve says MOST PEOPLE... I
MEAN, THIS IS A TYPICAL THING
WHO LIVE IN THE SUBURBS, TWO OR
THREE CARS PER FAMILY, TWO OR
THREE CAR GARAGES.
CAN YOU IMAGINE YOUR
CONSTITUENTS BEING PREPARED NOT
TO OWN CARS BUT TO SHARE
OWNERSHIP OR GO AVs?

Steven Del Duca says I CAN AT A
CERTAIN POINT.
TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT ON THIS POINT, I
THINK THAT WE SOMETIMES, FOR THE
BEST OF INTENTIONS, WE GET STUCK
VERY MUCH ON THAT EVERYBODY IN
OUR SOCIETY MAKES RATIONAL
CHOICES.
I THINK WE CAN'T AFFORD TO
IGNORE THAT SOME OF WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT IS EMOTIONAL, SOME
IS HISTORIC, SOME OF IT IS
CULTURAL, I MEAN CULTURAL IN THE
BROADEST SENSE OF THE WORD.
I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO
ACCOUNT WE WILL GO THROUGH A
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AS WE'RE
HAVING THIS DEBATE, AS
GOVERNMENT AT ALL LEVELS IS
SORTING THROUGH HOW WE'RE GOING
TO GET TO THE OUTCOMES THAT
WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
I AM AN OPTIMIST.
I THINK THERE DEFINITELY IS
POTENTIAL THERE.
BUT FUNDAMENTALLY THERE HAS TO
BE A VALUE PROPOSITION THAT
EXISTS BOTH RATIONALLY AND ALSO
SOMEWHAT EMOTIONALLY SO PEOPLE
CAN MAKE THE CHOICES THAT WILL
PRODUCE THOSE BETTER OUTCOMES.

Steve says STEPHEN, I WONDER
HOW CONCERNED YOU ARE THAT IF
THE SCENARIO THAT PHILIPPE
DESCRIBED EARLIER, THAT IT'S SO
EASY TO NOT OWN A CAR AND THEY
SHOW UP WITHIN MINUTES OF WHEN
YOU CALL THEM, THE ALREADY
JAM-PACKED ROADS WITHIN THE
CAPITAL CITY OF THIS PROVINCE
WILL BE EVEN MORE PACKED?

Stephen Buckley says I DON'T
THINK WE SEE AVs SURPASSING
THE LONG-HAUL TRANSIT IN THE
CITIES.
THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE
BACKBONE OF WHAT WE NEED.
I THINK MUCH OF... AS WE GET
FEWER AND FEWER HUMAN DRIVERS ON
THE ROAD, THE EFFICIENCY OF
THESE VEHICLES GETS MUCH, MUCH
BETTER AS WELL.
RIGHT NOW HUMANS HAVE TO KEEP 2
SECONDS APART AS THEY DRIVE.
THESE THINGS CAN BE A HALF
SECOND APART.
YOU CAN LITERALLY QUADRUPLE
CAPACITY ON THE SAME NUMBER OF
LANES IF YOU NEED TO.
YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
SQUEEZE MORE OUT OF ROADS ONCE
WE GET BEYOND A PHASE... I CAN
IMAGINE AT SOME POINT YOU MAY
NEED A LICENCE TO BE PERMITTED
TO DRIVE.
ULTIMATELY I THINK WE'D LIKE TO
GET TO A WORLD WHERE WE TOOK
HUMANS OUT OF DRIVING.
I MEAN, 90 percent OF AUTO COLLISIONS
ARE HUMAN ERROR.
AT THAT POINT, I VIEW THIS OUT
OF THE GATE ONE OF THE KEY
BENEFITS OUT OF THE GATE IS
ABOUT PROTECTING THE SAFETY OF
THOSE IN THE VEHICLE AND, MORE
IMPORTANTLY, THOSE OUTSIDE OF
THE VEHICLE.

Steve says I HADN'T PLANNED TO
TALK ABOUT THIS TODAY, BUT 90 percent
OF ACCIDENTS ON THE ROADS ARE
HUMAN ERROR.

Stephen Buckley says CORRECT.

Steve says CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW
MUCH LESS BUSINESS OUR TRAUMA
UNITS AT HOSPITALS ARE GOING TO
GET AND THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY.
THE IMPLICATIONS THERE ARE
MASSIVE.

Stephen Buckley says
ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE THAT
WOULD BE A GOOD ECONOMIC
OUTCOME.

The caption changes to "Tvo.org/current-affairs"

Steve says SURE ENOUGH.
CHERISE, HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT
AVs ARE GOING TO VISIT MORE
TRAFFIC TO THE CITY AS OPPOSED
TO LESS.

The caption changes to "Cherise Burda, @RyersonCBI"

Cherise says IT'S HOW WE
DEPLOY THEM.
ARE WE GOING TO ALLOW THEM ALL
TO BE PRIVATELY OWNED AND HAVE
MORE VEHICLES ON THE ROAD OR DO
WE WANT TO LOOK AT HOW TO
INTEGRATE THEM INTO OUR
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.
I THINK WE CAN ALREADY GET
STARTED ON THAT.
THERE ARE CITIES THROUGHOUT
NORTH AMERICA THAT ARE WORKING
WITH LIFT AND UBER TO INTEGRATE
THEM INTO THEIR TRANSIT NETWORK
SO THEY ARE HELPING TO SERVE
THAT LAST MILE AND THEY ARE
HELPING TO FILL THOSE GAPS IN
TRANSPORTATION AND IT'S ACTUALLY
BOOSTING RIDERSHIP AND IT'S
REDUCING CARS ON THE ROAD.
I THINK IT'S A GOOD FIRST START
AND THEN YOU BLEND THE AUTOMATED
COMPONENT OF THAT RIDE-SHARING
TOGETHER FOR THE FULL DEPLOYMENT
OF AUTOMATED VEHICLES.

Steve says WE TALKED ABOUT,
MINISTER, THE POTENTIAL IMPACT
ON THE PUBLIC TRANSIT
ANNOUNCEMENTS YOU'VE BEEN
MAKING, THESE AVs.
WHAT ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW
THE CITY OF TORONTO WAS LOOKING
AT SPENDING A BILLION DOLLARS TO
MOVE ONE INTERCHANGE ON THE
GARDNER KILOMETRES DOWN THE
ROAD.

Steven Del Duca says I'M NOT
GOING TO COMMENT ON SPECIFICS.

Steve says OH, C'MON.

The caption changes to "Steven Del Duca, @StevenDelDuca"

Steven Del Duca says THAT
MUNICIPAL PARTNERS HAVE MADE.
I THINK AGAIN HERE IN THIS
REGION AND I SAY THIS AS A
LIFE-LONG RESIDENT, WE HAVE A
PROFOUND RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL
WITH THE CATCHUP ISSUE.
I THINK WE HAVE TO BE OPEN
MINDED, WE HAVE TO BE
INNOVATIVE.
I KNOW THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
IS TAKING THAT APPROACH WITH
RESPECT TO THIS TECHNOLOGY AS IT
BLENDS WITH THE MORE TRADITIONAL
PUBLIC TRANSIT INFRASTRUCTURE
INVESTMENTS AND TRANSPORTATION
INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS THAT
WE'RE MAKING AND I HAVE EVERY
EXPECTATION THAT OUR MUNICIPAL
PARTNERS WILL FOLLOW WITH
RESPECT TO THAT BALANCED
APPROACH.
WE CAN'T PRESUME THAT A FUTURE,
AS IDEAL AS THAT MIGHT BE FOR
ALL OF US, WHICH IS LIKELY STILL
A FEW YEARS AWAY, WILL SOLVE ALL
OF OUR PROBLEMS AND WE CAN SORT
OF SURRENDER AND NOT DEAL WITH
THE EXISTING CHALLENGES THAT WE
HAVE.

Steve says YOU'VE LOOKED AT
EXAMPLES ALL AROUND THE WORLD IN
HOW OTHER CITIES ARE TRYING TO
STRUGGLE WITH THESE ISSUES.
WHAT ARE YOU FINDING?

The caption changes to "Philippe Crist, @ITF_Forum"

Phillipe says THE FIRST
THING WE FIND IS THERE'S A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ANGST ABOUT
INVESTMENTS AND TRAVEL
INVESTMENTS THAT PEOPLE DEPEND ON.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ANXIOUS,
GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC OFFICIALS
ARE ANXIOUS.
THE FIRST ADVICE WE GIVE THEM IS
IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT LONG-TERM
CAPITAL INVESTMENTS AND
LONG-TERM PLANNING ISSUES, YOU
SHOULD ALREADY BE TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS OF
AV TECHNOLOGY ON THE ONE HAND.
YOU SHOULD ALSO BE LOOKING AT
WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH
TRANSPORTATION NETWORK
COMPANIES, ALL THE CABS OF THE
WORLD, BECAUSE THEY TOO WILL...

Steve says I HAVEN'T HEARD OF
HALF THOSE THINGS YOU MENTIONED.

The caption changes to "Ditch the parking lot, and put up paradise."

Phillipe says SO UBER AND
LIFT, BASICALLY.
UBER AND LIFT ARE TWO OF
HUNDREDS OF COMPANIES AROUND THE
WORLD AND IN SOME CASES NOT THE
PRIMARY COMPANIES, A COMPANY IN
CHINA IS THE CHINESE UBER, IF
YOU WILL.
THOSE COMPANIES ARE HAVING A
TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON TRAVEL
DEMANDS.
ESPECIALLY IN THOSE COUNTRIES
WHERE MOTORIZATION RATES ARE
GOING HIGH, THESE PEOPLE WILL
HAVE ACCESS TO A CAR WITHOUT
EVER HAVING TO OWN ONE.
TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE POTENTIAL
IMPACTS OF AUTOMATED VEHICLES,
THE POTENTIAL IMPACT OF NEW
MOBILITY SERVICES, WHEN YOU
START THINKING ABOUT, DO I NEED
THIS INVESTMENT FOR 10, 20, 15,
30 YEARS DOWN THE LINE?
I THINK THE CITY OF TORONTO IS
DOING THAT.
IN NORTH AMERICA, THERE AREN'T
THAT MANY CITIES THAT ARE DOING
THAT.
THERE ARE OTHER CITIES OUTSIDE
OF NORTH AMERICA THAT MAKE THAT
PART OF THEIR FUNDAMENTAL
PLANNING PROCESS.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: TVO.org, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter; @theagenda"

Steve says NAME NAMES.
WHO IS HIP TO THIS RIGHT NOW?

Phillipe says RIGHT NOW... NAME NAMES.
WE CAN LOOK AT LONDON, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE TRANSPORTATION FOR
LONDON, THE CITY OF STOCKHOLM,
I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU
ANOTHER SWEDISH, BUT
GORTHENBURG, CITY OF BERLIN,
PARIS IS JUST STARTING TO DO IT,
SINGAPORE HAS BEEN INVOLVED WITH
THIS TYPE OF THINKING ABOUT
FUTURE INVESTMENTS FOR A LONG
TIME.
WHAT WE FIND IS THE CITIES THAT
HAVE THE GREATEST CONSTRAINTS IN
TERMS OF SPACE AVAILABLE FOR NEW
INFRASTRUCTURE, THE CITIES THAT
HAVE THE GREATEST CONSTRAINTS IN
TERMS OF OVERUSE OF ROADS ARE
THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO ACT
FIRST, AND I THINK THAT MEANS
THAT YOU'LL PROBABLY SEE SOME
INNOVATION COMING FROM SOME OF
THE MOST TRAFFIC-HEAVY CITIES IN
THE WORLD.

Steve says LET'S TAKE A LOOK
AT... CHECK THE MONITORS OUT HERE.
WE WANT TO PUT THESE PHOTOS UP.
SHELDON, THIS IS CITY MOBILE 2.
LET'S BRING THESE PHOTOS UP.
IT'S A PILOT PROJECT FOR AN
AUTOMATED TRANSPORT SYSTEM
TAKING PLACE IN SEVERAL CITIES
AROUND EUROPE.
PHILIPPE, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT?

A picture shows a small rounded van moving down a city street.

Phillipe says I'VE
ACTUALLY RIDDEN IN THAT.
IT'S AN AUTOMATED TRACK-BASE, IT
GOES ONLY ON A SPECIFIC ROUTE,
IN A NUMBER OF CITIES, I RODE IT
IN A WEEK AND A HALF AGO IN
STOCKHOLM, IT'S PRESENT IN
LAUSANNE, SWITZERLAND, AT THE
POLYTECHNICAL UNIVERSITY.
IT'S THE FUTURE OF HOW IT COULD
OPERATE IN TERMS OF SMALLER
VEHICLES.
THIS ONE ISN'T ON DEMAND, IT
FOLLOWS A SET ROUTE.
I HAVE TO BE HONEST, IT'S NOT A
TREMENDOUS EXPERIENCE BECAUSE IT
IS QUITE SLOW, IT'S STOP AND GO.
IT DOES SHOW THE POTENTIAL FOR
SELF DRIVING IS SOMETHING NOT
JUST FOR PRIVATE CARS, IT'S
SOMETHING YOU WILL SEE IN FORMS
OF QUASI PUBLIC TRANSPORT.

Steve says ARE THERE DRIVERS IN
THOSE THINGS?

The caption changes to "Transit troubles."

Phillipe says THERE'S A
STUDENT IN THE ONE IN LAUSANNE
AND IN THERE ABLE TO TAKE OVER
WITH A GAME PAD.
THEY DON'T HAVE ACTUALLY ACCESS
TO A STEERING WHEEL OR
ACCELERATOR, AND THEY CAN TAKE
CONTROL IF THEY NEED TO.
I THINK THE TYPE OF TECHNOLOGIES
THAT WE SEE HERE, THE
SELF-DRIVING VEHICLES WE SEE ON
THE ROADS IN NORTH AMERICA AND
OTHER PLACES AS WELL, THOSE WILL
BE MORE LIKELY THE TYPE OF
VEHICLES WE'LL FIRST SEE
DEPLOYED IN THE SORT OF UBER
SCENARIO, THE LIFT SCENARIO, THE
TRANSPORTATION NETWORK COMPANY
SCENARIO, IN ORDER TO PROVIDE THAT.
WE KNOW UBER HAS INVESTED
HEAVILY INTO THIS.
WE THINK GOOGLE'S BUSINESS PLAN
OPERATES ON THAT.
WE'RE FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT APPLE
WHEN THEY DEVELOP THEIR
SELF-DRIVING VEHICLE WILL HAVE A
COMPONENT, IN CHINA THEY ARE
DOING THE SAME THING.
PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE
FIRST LARGE-SCALE DEPLOYMENT IN
FLEETS.

Steve says STEVEN DEL DUCA, CAN
YOU IMAGINE THOSE THINGS ON OUR ROADS?

Steven Del Duca says AGAIN, I'M
OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE
POTENTIAL AS LONG AS ALL OF THE
PARTNERS INVOLVED, INCLUDING
GOVERNMENT, ARE DEPLOYING THE
POLICY LEVERS THAT WE HAVE AT
OUR DISPOSAL TO MAKE SURE WE GET
THE OUTCOME THAT WE'RE LOOKING
FOR.
CHERISE MENTIONED EARLIER THE
ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO MADE EARLIER THIS
WEEK AROUND THE GROWTH PLAN
UPDATE AND OUR DESIRE TO MOVE
FORWARD IN A CERTAIN WAY.
TO ME THAT IS PART OF PICKING A
LANE, LOOKING AT THIS TECHNOLOGY
AND EMBRACING IT AND MAKING SURE
WE'RE DEPLOYING IT IN A WAY THAT
MAKE SENSE BECAUSE OF THE NEEDS
WE HAVE HERE IN THIS PROVINCE OR
IN TORONTO OR THIS REGION,
THAT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT,
AGAIN, FALLS TO US COLLECTIVELY
TO WORK ON.
IT'S EXCITING THAT WE'RE DOING
IT BUT I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT WE
CAN ACHIEVE THE POSITIVE CHANGE
THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.

Steve says CHERISE, CAN YOU SEE
THESE THINGS ON OUR ROAD, MINI
BUSES... WHAT DO YOU CALL THEM?

Phillipe says THIS IS A
BRAND, CITY MOBILE.

Steve says CAN YOU IMAGINE
THAT?

Cherise says DEFINITELY.
I DO THINK WE NEED TO GET OUR
PLANNING RIGHT FIRST.
SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO START
WITH AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE
WANT OUR FUTURE TO LOOK LIKE,
OUR BUILD FORM, OUR LAND USE
PLAN FIRST, AND THEN DECIDE THE
TYPE OF TRANSPORTATION NETWORK,
THE DEPLOYMENT OF THESE
TECHNOLOGIES, IN ORDER TO
ACHIEVE THESE GOALS RATHER THAN
TRYING TO SORT OF RUN ALONG
BESIDE IT AND TRY AND FIGURE OUT
OUR BUILT FORM AS WE'RE
DEPLOYING THESE TYPES OF
TECHNOLOGIES, THAT THEY'RE
COMING IN AT ALL DIRECTIONS.
HOW CAN THESE TECHNOLOGIES
SERVICE COMPLETE COMMUNITIES?
HOW CAN THEY HELP PEOPLE GET
FROM POINT A TO POINT B, FILL IN
THE TRANSPORTATION GAPS, AND
HELP TO SUPPORT THOSE MORE LOW
DENSITY PARTS OF OUR REGION THAT
AREN'T SERVED WELL BY TRANSIT
AND WHERE YOU CAN'T SIMPLY BY
ECONOMICS DEPLOY A BUS FLEET ALL
OVER THE PLACE TO SERVE THAT LOW
DENSITY TYPE OF FORM.

Steve says STEPHEN BUCKLEY, I
DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY HAS A
VIEW ON THIS AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY
NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TORONTO
TRANSIT COMMISSION.

Stephen Buckley says I'M NOT.

Steve says TRANSIT IN ALL THE
CITIES IN ONTARIO, IT'S ALL
PUBLIC TRANSIT RIGHT NOW.
CAN YOU IMAGINE A FUTURE WHERE
THESE THINGS OPERATE AND IT'S
ALL PRIVATE?

Stephen Buckley says I THINK
THERE'S PROBABLY... SOME OF MY
CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS IN THE
TRANSIT INDUSTRY, NOT JUST
T.T.C., FOLKS ARE IN A BIT OF
DENIAL ABOUT THIS, ABOUT IT
OCCURRING.
MY THINKING IS, WE WANT TO SORT
OF TEST THESE, WE WANT TO MAKE
THEM SAFE, WE WANT TO MAKE THEM
DEPENDABLE.
PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE, AS WE
MENTIONED, IS GOING TO DEPEND
VERY MUCH ON LOCAL CULTURE.
YOU CAN ENVISION IN A CITY LIKE
SAN FRANCISCO OR DOWNTOWN
TORONTO, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING
TO SEE A GREATER WILLINGNESS TO
SORT OF PARTICIPATE IN SOMETHING
SUCH AS AN AUTONOMOUS VEHICLE,
WHEREAS IF YOU GO TO SORT OF
MORE RURAL AREAS, YOU MIGHT HAVE
MORE OF A CULTURAL RESISTANCE TO
IT.
I THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO COME
AND I THINK THAT TRANSIT LEADERS
NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT AT A
MINIMUM.

Phillipe says WE LOOKED
AT THE DETAILED IMPACTS OF THESE
TYPES OF SYSTEMS, WHEN YOU HAVE
ROBO TAXIS, MINI BUSES, IF YOU
WILL, SYSTEMS WHERE YOU HAVE
HEAVY DUTY RAIL.
WE SEE A REDUCTION OF 97 percent OF(PjE
VEHICLES REQUIRED TO DELIVER ALL
THE SAME TRIPS IN THE CITY OF
TODAY.
THAT'S A MASS REDUCTION IN THE
NUMBER OF VEHICLES.
YOU DON'T HAVE CURB SPACE
BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED SURFACE
PARKING AT ALL.
THIS IS FOR LISBON.
WE'RE DOING THE WORK FOR FIVE
OTHER CITIES AND LONDON.

Steve says YOU THINK IT'S
POSSIBLE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF
CARS ON THE ROAD BY 97 percent?

Phillipe says THIS IS A
MODELLING EXERCISE.
THIS ISN'T REALITY.
WHAT OUR MODELLING SHOWS US IS
ALL-IN, ONCE A SYSTEM IS FULLY
IMPLEMENTED IN THIS WAY, AND I
DON'T EXPECT IT WILL BE
IMPLEMENTED IN THIS WAY IN MANY
CITIES IN THE INITIAL TERM, YOU
CAN SEE THESE MASSIVE IMPACTS.
IF YOU DESIGN THE SYSTEM WELL
WITH THE PROPER DISPATCHING
ALGORITHM WHICH CONTROLS WHEN
TRIPS ARE BEING PICKED UP, YOU
CAN SEE A 30 percent REDUCTION IN
TRAVEL AND THAT MEANS 30 percent
REDUCTION IN GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSIONS, WITH EXISTING
INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE
TECHNOLOGIES.
THE POTENTIAL IS REALLY BIG.
THAT'S WHY IT'S INTERESTING FOR
CITIES TO START LOOKING, HOW DO
WE GO THIS WAY RATHER THAN THIS
WAY?
I THINK THE POINT OF THE
TRANSITION IS A DEFINITE ISSUE
FOR CITIES BECAUSE THE
MANAGEMENT OF THAT TRANSITION IS
GOING TO BE THE KEY ISSUE.
IT'S A GOVERNANCE ISSUE.

Steve says I KNOW YOU'RE ALL
OPTIMISTS HERE AND THE MINISTER
KEEPS TELLING US HE IS SO...
HAVING SAID THAT, MY JOB IS TO
BE THE KILLJOY HERE AND I WANT
TO PUT THIS ON THE TABLE AND GET
SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS.
STEVEN DEL DUCA, TO YOU FIRST.
YOUR JOB I GUESS AS MINISTER OF
TRANSPORTATION IS TO BE AWARE OF
WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE ROADS, ON
THE HIGHWAYS, PUBLIC TRANSIT,
AND SO ON.
BIKE LANES.
THE WHOLE 9 YARDS.
I WONDER IF AN AUTONOMOUS
VEHICLE FUTURE WHERE IT'S SO
EASY TO HAVE THESE THINGS SHOW
UP AT YOUR HOUSE IN 2 MINUTES TO
TAKE THE KIDS TO SCHOOL, TO TAKE
THE DOG TO THE VET, WHATEVER,
MEANS THAT PEOPLE WILL AVAIL
THEMSELVES OF THE EASE OF THAT,
THEY WON'T BIKE AS MUCH, THEY
WON'T WALK AS MUCH, THE WHOLE
IDEA ABOUT BECOMING A HEALTHIER
SOCIETY IS THEREFORE NOT GOING
TO HAPPEN.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Steven Del Duca says I MEAN,
LOOK.
I SAID EARLIER THERE ARE POLICY
LEVERS THAT ALL LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT HAVE TO DEPLOY SHOULD
THEY CHOOSE TO DEPLOY THEM.
I THINK WE HAVE TO AGAIN
DEMONSTRATE WHAT THAT VALUE
PROPOSITION IS TO PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THIS REGION, PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THE PROVINCE, AND CHOOSE
TO USE THE POLICY LEVERS THAT
WILL HELP AGAIN ACHIEVE THAT
OUTCOME YOU'RE LOOKING FOR AND I
THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.
THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE
SITUATIONS WHERE I THINK WE CAN
AFFORD TO SIMPLY SIT BACK AND
WAIT AND BE REACTIONARY AS WE
SEE THINGS TAKING PLACE IN OTHER
JURISDICTIONS.
I THINK WE HAVE TO LITERALLY
DECIDE WHAT WE WANT OUR FUTURE
TO LOOK LIKE.
I'VE SAID IN THE PAST PICKING
THAT LANE.
WE'VE GOT TO PICK THE LANE OR
PICK THE ROAD AND WHICHEVER
TRANSPORTATION PUN WE WANT TO
USE, WE HAVE TO DO THAT, WE HAVE
TO DEFINE THE OUTCOME, SET THE
POLICY OBJECTIVES, AND THEN
DRIVE HARD TOWARDS THOSE
OBJECTIVES.
YOU SEE SOME OF THAT RIGHT NOW,
CITY OF TORONTO, PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES IN
THE REGION.
BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
DEMONSTRATE TO THOSE THAT WE
REPRESENT AT A POLITICAL LEVEL
THAT THERE IS A VALUE IN WHAT WE
ARE PREDICTING CAN OCCUR FOR
THEM, FOR THEIR FAMILIES, THEIR
NEIGHBOURS, THEIR BUSINESSES.
SO IT'S THERE.
IT CAN BE DONE.
OF THAT I HAVE NO DOUBT.
WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE
POLITICAL WILL.
THIS GOVERNMENT I THINK IN
ONTARIO DOES HAVE THAT POLITICAL
WILL, OUR PREMIER DOES.
WE HAVE TO PRESS AHEAD AND HELP
MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Steve says THIS IS TVO,
MINISTER, NO COMMERCIALS
ALLOWED.
WE MOVE ON HERE.
CHERISE, ARE MORE PEOPLE LIKELY
TO USE AVs RATHER THAN WALK
AND BIKE?
WOULDN'T THAT BE AN IRONIC
NEGATIVE IMPACT?

Cherise says I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
MORE MOBILITY CHOICES THAT ALL
WORK TOGETHER.
WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE, HOPEFULLY IF
YOU DO IT RIGHT AND YOU HAVE IT
SO IT'S MORE SHARED OWNERSHIP SO
THAT IT'S SUPPORTING TRANSIT,
YOU MAY HAVE MORE CARS... OR
LESS CARS ON THE ROAD, LIKE
PHILIPPE EXPLAINED, AND IN THAT
CASE, YOU CAN ACTUALLY FREE UP
SOME OF THAT SPACE THAT'S BEING
DEDICATED TO PARKING LOTS,
THAT'S BEING DEDICATED TO ROAD
INFRASTRUCTURE.
THAT CAN BE LIBERATED AND
REIMAGINED FOR PARKS, FOR THE
PUBLIC REALM, MORE HOUSING
CHOICES, THINGS LIKE THAT, MORE
BIKE LANES, MORE
PEDESTRIAN-FRIENDLY SPACES TO
WALK IN.
SO IT MIGHT ACTUALLY HELP GET
MORE PEOPLE OUT THERE WALKING
AND CYCLING AND I THINK ONE OF
THE THINGS WE SEE EVERY DAY IN
THE CITY, WHICH IS VERY
DISTURBING, IS HOW MANY
PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS ARE
KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY BY CARS.
I WOULD GUESS THAT A LOT OF IT
IS DUE TO DISTRACTED DRIVING.
SO LET PEOPLE BE IN THEIR CARS
ON THEIR PHONES AND NOT HAVE TO
WORRY ABOUT TAKING THE WHEEL AS
WELL.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP
WITH THE MINISTER ON THAT.
GO TRANSIT OBVIOUSLY HAS A TON
OF PARKING SPOTS ALL OVER THE
G.T.A.
CAN YOU IMAGINE A FUTURE, AND
AGAIN I GUESS A LOT OF THIS IS
BLUE SKYING, BUT CAN WE IMAGINE
A FUTURE THAT IF PEOPLE DON'T
NEED TO HAVE THEIR CARS SITTING
IN A GO TRANSIT PARKING LOT FOR
23 HOURS A DAY, OR WHATEVER,
THAT THERE WILL BE AN ENTIRELY
DIFFERENT USE OF ALL OF THOSE
PARKING LOTS AND ALL OF THAT
SPACE?

Steven Del Duca says IT
CERTAINLY CAN BE.
GO TRANSIT IS THE SINGLE LARGEST
PARKING AUTHORITY IN CANADA,
SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD
OF 70,000, 75,000 PARKING SPACES
WITH MORE ON THE HORIZON TO BE
BUILT BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE
SERVICE COMING ONTO OUR
CORRIDORS.
BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE
DAY THERE IS DEFINITELY A CHANCE
TO REDUCE THE RELIANCE, ASSUMING
THAT WE CAN GET SOME OF THESE
PIECES RIGHT.
CHERISE TALKED EARLIER ABOUT THE
LAST MILE, FIRST MILE-LAST MILE
CONNECTION, THAT'S A HUGE PIECE
HERE.
THERE IS NO DOUBT THIS
TECHNOLOGY CAN PLAY A POSITIVE
ROLE WITH RESPECT TO DELIVERING
AGAIN THAT OUTCOME, BUT WE HAVE
TO HAVE... WE HAVE TO KNOW HOW
WE WANT TO DEPLOY IT, WE HAVE TO
HAVE THE COURAGE TO DO IT AND
WITHSTAND SOME OF THE CHALLENGES
ALONG THE WAY.
THE OTHER THING I'LL MENTION,
HERE IN THIS REGION AS WE BUILD
PUBLIC TRANSIT INFRASTRUCTURE
THROUGH BUILT UP AREAS, CITY OF
TORONTO, MY HOME COMMUNITY,
OTHERS, WE EXPERIENCE HOW
DISRUPTIVE IT IS WHEN WE'RE
DOING IT AFTER THE FACT, HOW
EXPENSIVE IT IS, HOW PAINFUL IT
IS FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THESE
NEIGHBOURHOODS BECAUSE WE'RE
BUILDING TRANSIT AFTER THE FACT.
AS WE CONTINUE TO BUILD MORE
COMMUNITIES IN THE GREATER
GOLDEN HORSESHOE, TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT WHAT THIS TECHNOLOGY CAN
DO, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT'S
ONLY COMMON SENSE TO SAY IF
THERE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO
BUILD OR EMBED IN OUR
INFRASTRUCTURE AS WE'RE BUILDING
THESE COMMUNITIES THAT WILL
SERVE TO DELIVER ON THIS
OUTCOME, IT WILL BE CHEAPER, IT
WILL BE LESS DISRUPTIVE AS WE'RE
BUILDING THE COMMUNITIES INSTEAD
OF DOING WHAT WE'VE HISTORICALLY
DONE, WHICH IS BUILT UP A CITY,
BUILT UP A NEIGHBOURHOOD, AND
FORCED TRANSPORTATION OR TRANSIT
SOLUTIONS IN AFTER THE FACT.
THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY
FOR US TO DO THAT.
I THINK SOME OF THE OPPORTUNITY
RESTS IN THIS TECHNOLOGY.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU CALL
THEM, YOU'VE GOT THAT
EXPRESSION...

Steven Del Duca says TRANSIT
INSPIRED COMMUNITIES.

Steve says AS OPPOSED TO THE
OTHER WAY AROUND.

Steven Del Duca says YEAH.

Steve says CAN I ASK YOU
ABOUT... AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK ALL
OVER THE 416, THERE ARE GREEN
"P" PARKING LOTS EVERYWHERE, THE
CITY HAS TO SHARE PARKING
SPACES.
IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE
THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF
SPOTS TO PUT CARS TO SIT IDLE
ALL DAY LONG, HAVE YOU BEGUN TO
IMAGINE HOW THAT SPACE CAN BE USED?

Stephen Buckley says THE
TORONTO PARKING AUTHORITY
OVERSEES THAT.
ULTIMATELY THEY'RE VIEWING IT
AS... THEY'RE A LITTLE NERVOUS
THAT DEMAND COULD GO DOWN OVER
THE NEXT DECADE OR SO.
IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEY DO
HAVE MANY SPACE PROBABLY THE
HIGHEST REAL ESTATE VALUES IN
THE CITY AND AGAIN MAYBE IT'S
REVISITING WHAT THAT SITE IS
USED FOR.
I PROBABLY WOULD SAY THAT
ECONOMICALLY, BY GENERATING
REVENUE, IT MAY BE THE HIGHEST
AND BEST USE BUT MAY NOT BE THE
HIGHEST AND BEST USE FROM A CITY
BUILDING STANDPOINT.

Steve says GOTCHA.
IN OUR REMAINING MOMENTS HERE,
LET ME READ THIS FROM A SPECIAL
EDITION OF THE ECONOMIST
MAGAZINE WHICH IS CALLED WHAT IF.

A quote appears on screen, under the title "A new era." The quote reads "Car-lovers will doubtless mourn the passing of machines that, in the 20th century, became icons of personal freedom. But this freedom is illusory. The empty roads seen in car advertisements are not most people's experience of driving. In a driverless future, people will come to wonder why they tolerated such a high rate of road deaths, and why they spent so much money on machines that mostly sat unused. A world of self-driving vehicles may sound odd, but coming generations will consider the era of car ownership to have been much stranger."
Quoted from The Economist, August 2015.

Steve says CHERISE, YOU BUYING THAT?

The caption changes to "The bumpy road ahead."

Cherise says PERHAPS.
I THINK THAT A LOT OF IT COMES
DOWN TO THE MODEL, REALLY.
IF EVERYBODY OWNS A DRIVERLESS
VEHICLE, THEN WE'RE NOT GOING TO
GET AWAY FROM WHAT WE'RE SEEING
IN TERMS OF THE CONGESTION AND
THE LONG COMMUTES.
IF THERE IS MORE OF A SHARED
MODEL, THEN WE ARE GOING TO SEE
A COMPLETE TRANSFORMATION, AND
WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT
PEOPLE FIRST AND OUR
NEIGHBOURHOODS FIRST AND MAKE
SURE THAT WE ARE BUILDING THOSE
COMPLETE COMMUNITIES,
TRANSFORMING GO STATIONS RIGHT
NOW, WHICH ARE GOING TO BECOME
MOBILITY HUBS FOR COMMUNITIES.
RIGHT NOW IF YOU LOOK AT HOW
THEY'RE DESIGNED, ENTIRE
NEIGHBOURHOODS HAVE THEIR BACKS
TURNED ON THE STATION AND IT'S A
PARKING LOT.
WE NEED TO LOOK INWARD TO THE GO
STATION.
THEY NEED TO BE PART OF THE
COMPLETE NEIGHBOURHOOD.
WE NEED TO BE BUILDING COMPLETE
COMMUNITIES WHERE THESE CARS
HELP TO SERVICE THAT.

Steve says PHILIPPE, WHEN I WAS
A KID, WE USED TO DRIVE DOWN THE
HIGHWAYS AND IF YOU HAD JUST
GONE TO A DRIVE-IN RESTAURANT,
YOU OPEN UP THE DOOR WHEN YOU
WERE FINISHED YOUR MEAL AND YOU
THREW ALL THE LITTER OUT THE
WINDOW AND WE LEARNED THAT'S NOT
COOL ANYMORE.

Phillipe says WAY NOT COOL.

Steve says WAY NOT COOL.
CAN YOU IMAGINE A FUTURE WHERE
THE NOTION OF CAR OWNERSHIP
WOULD SEEM QUAINT AND KIND OF SILLY?

Phillipe says YOU'RE
ASKING THE WRONG PERSON.
I'M 50 YEARS OLD.
I'VE NEVER OWNED A CAR.
I DON'T EVEN HAVE A DRIVER'S
LICENCE AND I GREW UP IN
TENNESSEE.
IF I CAN DO IT, THEN ANYONE CAN
DO IT.

Steve says YOU'VE REALLY
NEVER...

Phillipe says I'VE NEVER
HAD A DRIVER'S LICENCE.
NOW OF COURSE I LIVE IN PARIS.
ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT
WHERE I LIVE AND ONE OF THE
GREAT THINGS ABOUT TORONTO IS
THAT THESE CITIES ARE CITIES
WHERE IT'S BECOMING AS EASY TO
LIVE WITHOUT A CAR AS WITH A CAR
BECAUSE YOU HAVE CHOICES.
ONE OF THE CHOICES IS COMING
DOWN THE ROAD, AND LIKE WE HEARD
THERE, ONE OF THE CHOICES THAT
WILL BE MOST LIBERATING WILL BE
THE ARRIVAL OF THESE
TECHNOLOGIES.
I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE DAY WHERE I
CAN ACCESS THE KIND OF CAR WE
HEARD THE ECONOMIST DESCRIBING.
MY DAUGHTERS DON'T VALUE HAVING
A CAR.
THIS AFTERNOON I HAVE TO FIND
THEM TWO iPhone AND WE'RE
GETTING THEM.
THEY DON'T WANT TO DRIVE, THEY
WANT THIS PHONE.
DO YOU WANT THIS OR AN iPhone
FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY.
THEY WANT THE iPhone.
I'M IN TORONTO TRYING TO FIND ONE.

Steve says GOTCHA.

Stephen Buckley says I WAS
GOING TO SAY, I THINK THIS IS A
GENERATIONAL THING.
LIBERATION, AS YOU SAID BACK
WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG WAS THE CAR.
THAT WAS THE WAY YOU GOT TO YOUR
FRIENDS AND CONNECTED TO YOUR
FRIENDS.
NOWADAYS IT'S THE DEVICE.
THEY DON'T NEED TO PHYSICALLY BE
IN THE PROXIMITY.
ULTIMATELY WE WANT TO LOOK BACK
AND SAY WHAT ARE THE GOALS OF
THE CITY AND HOW DO WE WANT THE
CITY TO DEVELOP?
AGAIN, BACK TO THE SIMPLE
QUESTION: DON'T LET THE
TECHNOLOGICAL TALE WAG THE DOG.
THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN USE THIS
TO BUILD THE CITIES WE WANT TO
SEE.

Steve says I TOTALLY HEAR YOU.
LET'S ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT I
SUSPECT YOU AND I KNOW YOU AND I
KNOW YOU AND I LIVE IN, YOU
KNOW, WE LIVE IN A BIG CITY.
YOU DON'T.
AND I WONDER...

Steven Del Duca says BIGGISH CITY.

Steve says A BIGGISH CITY.

Cherise says SUBWAY.

Steve says I DO WONDER WHETHER
PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO LIVE IN
THE 905 AND OBVIOUSLY MORE
REMOTE PARTS OF THE PROVINCE ARE
GOING TO FEEL AS BULLISH ABOUT
THIS.

Steven Del Duca says I WOULD
SAY THE PEOPLE IN THE 905 ARE
THIRSTING FOR SOLUTIONS BECAUSE
THEY KNOW WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY
TO DO BETTER BECAUSE THE QUALITY
OF LIFE IMPACT ON THE GRIDLOCK
DELIVERS TO ALL OF US IS NOT
SOMETHING THAT'S PARTICULARLY
POPULAR.
I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME
SKEPTICISM, TO A DEGREE, IN THE
905, BUT THEY REALLY DO WANT TO
SEE A SOLUTION.
SO IT GOES BACK TO: WHAT IS THAT
VALUE PROPOSITION FOR PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THE 905?
IF WE CAN DEMONSTRATE THEY CAN
USE TECHNOLOGY THAT ON DEMAND
THEY CAN ACCESS SOME WAY TO GET
TO A GO STATION OR A SUBWAY
STATION OR SOMEWHERE ELSE AS
PART OF THEIR DESTINATION AND
NOT HAVE TO BE STUCK ENDLESSLY
IN TRAFFIC ON REGIONAL HIGHWAYS
AND ROADWAYS, I THINK THEY WILL
EMBRACE IT.
THERE IS A TRANSITIONAL TIME
THAT WILL HAVE TO OCCUR BUT THE
FUTURE IS EXCITING.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_OConnor"

Steve says IT ALWAYS IS.
I WANT TO THANK OUR GUESTS FOR
COMING FROM NEAR AND FAR TO BE
WITH US TODAY.
STEVEN DEL DUCA AND CHERISE
BURDA, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF
THE TABLE, STEPHEN BUCKLEY FROM
THE CITY OF TORONTO AND PHILIPPE
CRIST. SORT OF PARISIEN, SORT
OF FROM NASHVILLE. I'M STILL
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THAT
ACCENT. ANYWAY, IT'S JUST
OCCURED TO ME THAT WE'VE HAD
MORE STEVE'S PER SQUARE INCH
ON THIS DISCUSSION THAN I THINK
ANY OTHER PROGRAM WE'VE DONE
BUT IT'S NOT A TERRIBLE THING.
THANKS, EVERYBODY.

Watch: The Future is Driverless