Transcript: Breaking Barriers | Feb 29, 2016

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a dark blue suit, checkered white shirt, and dark blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Breaking barriers."

Steve says MANY, MANY KIDS ACROSS
THIS COUNTRY DREAM OF PLAYING IN
THE NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE SOME
DAY.
A TINY, TINY PERCENTAGE MAKE IT.
BUT MIKE MARSON FROM
SCARBOROUGH, ONTARIO DID.
WHEN HE DID, HE WAS JUST THE
SECOND BLACK PLAYER IN NHL
HISTORY EVER TO GET TO THE BIG
STAGE.
HE PLAYED ALMOST 200 GAMES IN
THE LEAGUE AND HE JOINS US NOW
TO REFLECT ON WHAT IT TOOK TO
GET THERE AND THE BARRIERS HE
FACED THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER.

Mike sits at the table with Steve. He's in his late forties, bald, with a white goatee. He's wearing a gray pinstripe suit, white shirt, and striped blue tie.

Steve continues MIKE, IT'S A GREAT PLEASURE TO
MEET YOU.

Mike says MY PLEASURE, STEVE.

Steve says I WATCHED YOU PLAY.
AND YOU HAD THE MISFORTUNE OF
NOT PLAYING ON THE WASHINGTON
CAPITALS OF ALEX OVECHKIN, BUT
THE WASHINGTON CAPITALS THAT
WERE THE WORST OF ALL TIME.

Mike says WE ONLY WON
SEVEN GAMES OUT OF 80 AND IT WAS
A NIGHTMARE GOING ON THE ROAD.
JUST A NIGHTMARE.

Steve says LET'S GO BACK AND
TELL YOUR STORY.
YOU'RE FROM SCARBOROUGH.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE GROWING UP THERE?

The caption changes to "Growing up in Scarborough."
Then, it changes again to "Mike Marson. Former NHL Player."

Mike says SCARBOROUGH
THEN WAS VERY RURAL.
LOTS OF COUNTRY.
WE HAD CORNFIELDS JUST NORTH.
I'M FROM WARDEN AND LAWRENCE
AREA.
AND ONE OF MY NEIGHBOURS JUST UP
THE STREET WAS OF COURSE TIM
HORTON.
WE WERE AT 1292 AND HE WAS AT
1378, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.

Steve says DID YOU EVER KNOCK
ON HIS DOOR?

Mike says WE PLAYED BALL
HOCKEY AROUND THE CORNER AND
KNOCK ON HIS DOOR AND HE'D WAKE
UP AND COME TO THE DOOR AND FILL
THE DOORWAY, HE WAS A MASSIVE
GUY, AND SIGN OUR AUTOGRAPHS.

Steve says EVER JOIN IN FOR A
GAME OF ROAD HOCKEY?

Mike says NO.

Steve says HE NEVER DID THAT.

Mike says IN THOSE DAYS
MOST OF THE TRAVEL DONE BY
PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES WAS ON THE
TRAIN.
THESE GUYS ARE COMING IN,
THEY'RE EXHAUSTED.
IT'S ALL THEY CAN DO TO GET HOME
AND BE WITH FAMILY.

Steve says HOW DID YOU FALL IN
LOVE WITH HOCKEY?

Mike says MOST OF MY
CLASSMATES WERE INVOLVED WITH
HOCKEY.
WE'D GO AND SKATE IN DIFFERENT
PEOPLE'S BACK YARDS.
SOME OF THE FATHERS THEN WERE
OUT THERE WITH THE BUCKET OF
WATER OR THE HOSE OR WHATNOT,
AND THEN WE WOULD GO ONCE IT GOT
DEVELOPED IN THE SCHOOL YARD,
WE'D GO OVER AND PLAY IN THE
SCHOOL YARD.
SAME IDEA.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU START
COMPETING.
EVERY SPORT THAT YOU ARE
COMPETING IN, YOU TRY TO BRING
IT TO A CERTAIN COMPETITIVE
LEVEL.
AND FOR ME, I GUESS I WAS LUCKY
THAT HOCKEY SEEMED TO BE
SOMETHING THAT I WAS DIRECTED
INTO.

Steve says AT WHAT AGE DO YOU
START TO THINK, YOU KNOW, I JUST
MIGHT BE GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE A
CAREER OUT OF THIS?

Mike says I REMEMBER
GRADE 9 THINKING TO MYSELF, IF I
COULD STAY IN THE 3 percent -- YOU
KNOW, THE OTHER GUYS AROUND THE
LEAGUE, THEN IT WAS THE
G.T.H.L., IF I COULD STAY IN
THAT 3 percent, THEN THAT WAS THE CREW
THAT WAS GOING TO GO IN THE
DRAFT FOR THE FIRST TWO ROUNDS
TO JUNIOR.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER,
STEVE, BUT WE HAD A TEAM, A
W.H.A. TEAM HERE, THE TOROS.

Steve says OF COURSE.

Mike says FRANK
MAHOVLICH AND WAYNE DILLON.
IT WAS INTERESTING.
WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW
TO TURN PRO EARLIER SO THAT WE
COULD BE INVOLVED IN COMPETING
AT THAT HIGHER LEVEL.
BUT FOR MOST OF US THAT TURNED
JUNIOR OR PRO TOO EARLY, IT WAS
TOO MUCH, YOU KNOW?
IT WAS LIKE PUTTING A 6-YEAR-OLD
IN A FERRARI.

Steve says YOU DID GET DRAFTED
AND ENDED UP PLAYING JUNIOR IN
SUDBURY.

Mike says I DID.

Steve says WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

The caption changes to "Playing in Sudbury."

Mike says IT WAS
INTERESTING BECAUSE THE YEAR
BEFORE I HAD GONE TO CHATHAM TO
PLAY FOR THE MAROONS AND IT WAS
THE OLD OUTLAW LEAGUE, THEY
CALLED IT.
SO I HAD A CHANCE AT 16, YOU
KNOW, COMPETE WITH GUYS THAT
WERE IN THEIR EARLY 20s, WHICH
WAS INTERESTING, AGAIN, BECAUSE
THEY KIND OF SHOWED ME THE
ROPES, KENNY HOUSTON WHO WOUND
UP PLAYING WITH ATLANTA
EVENTUALLY, RANDY McGREGOR
ALSO WAS THERE, AND THEN, PARDON
ME, WHEN I GOT DRAFTED BY
SUDBURY, I HAD ALREADY KIND OF
GONE THROUGH THE ORIENTATION OF
WHAT IT'S LIKE TO PLAY HOCKEY AT
THAT LEVEL.

An old coloured picture appears on screen of the Sudbury Wolves hockey team. The members of the team, including Mark, are in their twenties.

Steve says NOW, IN THIS DAY AND
AGE WHERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE A
LITTLE SMARTER AND A LITTLE MORE
MULTICULTURAL AND A LITTLE MORE,
YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF
ENHANCED SENSITIVITY ABOUT THESE
THINGS, WE STILL SEE EXAMPLES OF
STUPID RACISM AT GAMES.

Mike says OF COURSE.

Steve says I WANT TO ASK YOU
ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO PLAYING IN
SUDBURY, ONTARIO.
DID YOU RUN INTO ANY OF THAT?

Mike says YOU KNOW,
SUDBURY WASN'T TOO BAD.
MOST OF THE JUNIOR TEAMS IN THE
ONTARIO CIRCUIT WERE PRETTY
GOOD.
YOU'D HAVE THE ODD THING THAT
WOULD HAPPEN, THE ODD PERSON
WOULD SAY SOMETHING.
BUT BY AND LARGE, YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE AT THAT TIME WERE -- THEY
HAD A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAN
FOLKS THAT WERE IN THE U.S. AT
THE TIME BECAUSE THEY HAD ALL
THE BURNINGS OF THE CITIES AND,
YOU KNOW, WITH THE RACE RIOTS
AND THE POLICE TURNING HOSES ON,
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT WERE
PROTESTING, SO BEFORE 20 YEARS
WAS UP, I WAS TURNING PRO INTO
THAT HOT POOL OF, YOU KNOW, ALL
KINDS OF STUFF WAS TAKING PLACE.

Steve says DO YOU WANT TO SEE YOURSELF?
LOOK AT THE MONITOR UP THERE.
HAVE A LOOK AT THE MONITOR.

Mike says I PROBABLY HAVE HAIR.

A black and white picture shows young Mark wearing his hockey uniform. He has a short afro and a long moustache.

Steve says LOOK AT YOU.
WHAT A STRAPPING YOUNGSTER YOU ARE.
THAT'S YOUR FIRST YEAR, DRAFTED
INTO THE SECOND ROUND, BY THE
WASHINGTON CAPITALS.
AS THESE THINGS GO, THAT'S A
VERY HIGH DRAFT PICK.
WERE YOU SURPRISED TO HAVE GONE
THAT HIGH?

Mike says I WAS HOPING
TO GO AS A FIRST ROUNDER.
THE EGO OF ATHLETES, YOU ALWAYS
FIGURE YOU'RE BETTER THAN YOU
PERHAPS ARE, AND...

Steve says WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
YOU HAD A PRETTY GREAT JUNIOR
CAREER.
YOU WERE CAPTAIN OF THE WOLVES.

Mike says YES.

Steve says I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER...

Mike says ALL STAR.

Steve says YOU HAD SOMETHING
LIKE 85 POINTS IN 60 GAMES.
I MEAN, YOU HAD A GOOD CAREER.

Mike says I DID OKAY.
BUT THE THING WAS, AGAIN, IF YOU
LOOK AT IT FROM AN HISTORICAL
PERSPECTIVE, HERE'S THIS KID WHO
CAME UP 42 YEARS AGO INTO THIS
SOCIAL SETUP WHERE ALL KINDS OF
CRAZY STUFF WAS GOING ON JUST
BECAUSE YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE MORE
PIGMENTATION IN HIS SKIN.
NOT ONLY DOES THAT PLAY OUT ON
THE RINK AND WITH THE FANS...
PARDON ME -- BUT IT ALSO PLAYS
OUT WITH THE HATE MAIL THAT I
USED TO GET WHERE SOMEBODY WOULD
CUT OUT OF A MAGAZINE, YOU KNOW,
A SENTENCE, STICK IT TO THE
PIECE OF PAPER, WRAP IT UP, PUT
A STAMP ON IT AND SEND IT TO MY
HOUSE OR SEND IT TO THE CAPITAL
CENTRE.

Steve says SAYING WHAT?

The caption changes to "New kid in town."

Mike says SOMETHING DEROGATORY.
DEFINITELY THERE WERE BOMBS
DROPPED IN THE LETTER AND THEY
WERE LOOKING TO HARM ME IN SOME
WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

Steve says DID YOU BELIEVE THE THREATS?

Mike says OF COURSE.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AT FIRST YOU
THINK, AH, THIS IS JUST SOMEBODY
PLAYING AROUND.
BUT THEN AS TIME WENTo68cYJd?2 I
REMEMBER BRINGING IT TO THE
ATTENTION OF, YOU KNOW, MY
AUTHORITIES AT THE CAPITAL
CENTRE AND SAID WHAT DO YOU
THINK, YOU KNOW?

Steve says WE SHOULD REMEMBER
THIS IS WASHINGTON, D.C.
IT'S A SOUTHERN CITY.

Mike says IT'S BELOW THE
MASON DIXIE LINE.

Steve says WHEN YOU PLAYED FOR
THE CAPITALS IN WASHINGTON ON
THE WORST TEAM EVER AT THAT TIME
IN THE HISTORY OF THE N.H.L.,
DID YOU RUN INTO LOTS OF RACISM
IN THE CITY?

Mike says WE WERE LUCKY
AS PLAYERS BECAUSE THE CAPTAIN
OF THE STATE TROOPERS WAS OUR
SECURITY REPRESENTATIVE, SO IF
YOU HAD ANY SITUATION THAT
REQUIRED IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE,
YOU WOULD HAVE THE OFFICER CALL
THE COMMANDER AND HE WOULD THEN
TELL, YOU KNOW, I GUESS DECIDE
WHAT IT WAS THEY WERE GOING TO
DO AND SOLVE IT RIGHT THEN AND
THERE.
SO WE HAD THAT.
THAT WAS A GREAT BENEFIT, YOU
KNOW, MANY, MANY TIMES.
YOU'RE IN A SMALL SITUATION OR,
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SHOPPING AND
SOMEBODY SAYS SOMETHING AND
YOU'RE A YOUNG GUY, BLACK GUY
WITH AN AFRO LIKE BOBBY SEAL HAD
AND YOU'RE DRIVING A JAGUAR AND
PUSH COMES TO SHOVE.
IN THOSE DAYS YOU'RE FIESTY, 18,
19, 20, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO
ROCK 'N' ROLL.

Steve says ANY DIFFICULTY
GETTING ACCEPTED BY YOUR
TEAMMATES?

Mike says NOT REALLY, NO.
EVERY TEAM THAT'S OF A
PROFESSIONAL NATURE, THERE'S
ALWAYS SOME KIND OF RIFT OR
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
ONE GUY IS MAKING MORE MONEY
THAN ANOTHER GUY.
THERE'S GOING TO BE A
COMPETITIVE WAY OF THINKING.
ANOTHER GUY -- WHEN I WAS 19, I
DIDN'T GET TREATED LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ON THE FIRST
LINE NOW, I'M ON THE THIRD
LINE -- WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A
TEAM, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF
GOING ON ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Steve says MIKE, I'VE ALWAYS
WANTED TO ASK YOU THIS.
JACKIE ROBINSON BREAKS THE
COLOUR BARRIER IN MAJOR LEAGUE
BASEBALL IN 1947, BUT A FEW
MONTHS LATER, LARRY DOBIE COMES
ALONG.
A FEW MONTHS.
IN THE NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE,
REID BREAKS THE COLOUR BARRIER
WITH THE BOSTON BRUINS.
YOU COME AROUND AS THE SECOND
BLACK PLAYER IN N.H.L. HISTORY
FOR ANOTHER 16 YEARS.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?

The caption changes to "Dealing with racism."

Mike says FIRST, THERE'S
A LOT INVOLVED AS FAR AS TALENT,
YOUR ABILITIES TO HANDLE
SITUATIONS.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
MULTITASK.
YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE
THE ROUGH STUFF.
YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO PUT THE
BISCUIT IN THE BASKET, AS THEY
SAY.
AND YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO, YOU
KNOW, BE CAPABLE OF GOING, YOU
KNOW, FORWARD AND WORKING WITH
THE AGGRESSIVE PARTS OF THINGS.
IF THE GLOVES COME OFF, YOU HAVE
TO HANDLE THAT.
IT TAKES SOMEONE VERY DIFFERENT
AND UNIQUE TO BE ABLE TO HEAR
NEGATIVITY ON A REGULAR BASIS
AND NOT LET IT AFFECT THEM.

Steve says HOW DID IT NOT
AFFECT YOU?

Mike says OH, YOU WOULD
HAVE A MOMENT WHERE YOU WOULD
MAYBE, WHEN YOU WERE BY
YOURSELF, YOU'D HAVE A TEAR.
THAT SORT OF THING WOULD GO ON.
YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, YOU KNOW,
AND THE PRESSURE OF TRYING TO
PERFORM AT YOUR BEST.
BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR A LOT OF
PEOPLE, THAT WOULD JUST MAKE
THEM QUIT.
AT THAT STAGE THEY'D SAY, I
DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE.
THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.

Steve says WHY DIDN'T YOU?

Mike says I DON'T KNOW.
I WAS HUNGRY FOR SOMETHING.
YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER BACK IN THE
DAY WITH MY UNCLE ROMEO AND MY
DAD SITTING WATCHING HOCKEY AND
THEY WOULD THROW THE PILLOWS AT
THE TELEVISION WHEN THE LEAFS
WERE PLAYING, IF A GOAL WAS
SCORED.
I REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME WE ALL
WATCHED WILLIE OREA AND I SAID
TO MY UNCLE AND DAD, I WANT TO
DO THAT.
I WANT TO BE A HOCKEY PLAYER.
IT MEANT WHATEVER I HAD TO
SACRIFICE, THAT'S WHAT I HAD TO
DO IN ORDER TO GET THERE.

Steve says AND IT DIDN'T MATTER
WHAT THEY DID TO YOU IN THE
N.H.L. -- BECAUSE I IMAGINE SOME
GUY, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME
FIGHTS YOU HAD.
YOU WERE IN JUNIOR HOCKEY 150
MINUTES A YEAR IN THE PENALTY
BOX, RIGHT?
YOU COULD FIGHT.

Mike says THERE WERE SITUATIONS.
BUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ASK ME
THAT QUESTION ALL THE TIME.
I'M OUT WITH FRIENDS AND
WHATEVER.
THE THING IS, IT WAS 40 SOME ODD
YEARS AGO, AND MY FEELING IS
THAT EVERYBODY EVOLVES.
SO WHO YOU WERE AT 21 OR 22 OR
25 -- I HAVE TO THINK THAT
THEY'VE BECOME ENLIGHTENED, THAT
THEY SEE LIFE A LITTLE DIFFERENT
NOW THAT THEY'RE 60 WHATEVER OR
70.
SOME WOULD BE 70.
I DON'T SEE THE POINT IN
BRINGING THAT UP IN A NEGATIVE
WAY TO POINT A FINGER AND SAY,
YOU KNOW, YOU CALLED ME
WHATEVER, BLAH BLAH BLAH.
I DON'T SEE THE POINT...

Steve says I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING.
BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, MIKE?
I REMEMBER BACK THEN.
I'VE BEEN GOING TO HOCKEY GAMES
SINCE THE MID 1960s.
AND FRENCH CANADIAN PLAYERS WERE
ON THE RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

Mike says THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH.

Steve says YOU'VE GOT TO THINK
THE ONLY BLACK KID IN THE LEAGUE
IS GOING TO FACE HIS FAIR SHARE
OF IT, RIGHT?

Mike says YEAH.

Steve says I GUESS I WONDER HOW
YOU MANAGED TO SORT OF PUT THAT
IN ITS PLACE AND STILL PLAY THE
GAME.

Mike says THERE'S A KIND
OF PLACE YOU HAVE TO GO TO IN
YOUR MIND WHERE YOU REFUSE TO BE
BEATEN.
YOU REFUSE TO GIVE UP.
AND YOU JUST DO THE BEST WITH
WHAT YOU'VE GOT THAT DAY.
SOMETIMES YOU'RE GOING TO BE
PLUS, SOMETIMES YOU'RE GOING TO
BE MINUS.
BUT YOU JUST KEEP GOING.
EVERY TIME YOU GET KNOCKED DOWN,
YOU GET BACK UP ON YOUR FEET AND
YOU ROLL.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK...
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CAME FROM
THE OLD DAYS OF WATCHING JOHN
WAYNE AND THE COWBOY, THE
WESTERN MOVIES, BUT IT'S THAT
SAME KIND OF THINKING.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T JUST LAY
THERE BECAUSE NO ONE IS COMING
TO SAVE YOU.
GET UP AND LIMP TO WHEREVER YOU
HAVE TO GO TO.

Steve says DID YOU RECALL,
THOUGH, THAT WHEN YOU PLAYED...
YOU WERE UP IN THE N.H.L. AND
DOWN TO THE A.H.L. AND UP AND
DOWN -- I MEAN, FIVE OR SIX
TIMES.
I DO HAVE TO ASK: DO YOU
THINK -- DID RACISM HAVE
ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT?

Mike says AGAIN, I
DON'T -- YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
THAT -- AND I KNOW YOU'RE A
SPORTS MAN, STEVE, BUT
PROFESSIONAL HOCKEY IS LIKE A
SACRED SORORITY.
EVEN IF A GUY DOES YOU WRONG ON
THE RINK, IN PRIVATE LIFE, YOU
DON'T CARRY THAT BECAUSE THE
COMPETITIVE NATURE HAS TO BE
SUCH THAT HE HAS TO DO SOMETIMES
THINGS THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF
HIS OWN MODE OF CONDUCT.
SO AGAIN I DON'T SEE THE POINT
IN GOING BACK -- I'M A BIGGER
MAN THAN WHAT I SUFFERED
THROUGH, IF THAT IS AN ANSWER
THAT HELPS YOU WITH THAT.
SURE, THERE WAS ALL KINDS OF
STUFF, THINGS THAT WENT ON.

Steve says IF I'M READING
BETWEEN THE LINES, PART OF ALL
THAT YOU WENT THROUGH HAS MADE
YOU WHO YOU ARE TODAY AND YOU
LIKE WHO YOU ARE TODAY.

Mike says I LIKE WHO I AM TODAY.

Steve says SO IT'S ALL PART OF IT?

Mike says IT'S ALL PART
OF IT.
I'M TOTALLY AT PEACE AND I WOULD
LIKE TO DO A BOOK, YOU KNOW?
I WAS INVOLVED WITH KWAME MASON
AND HIS DOCUMENTARY THAT HE DID
THAT WON PRAISES IN CALGARY AND
IT'S BEEN SEEN BY THE HIERARCHY
OF THE NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE,
IT SHOWED HERE TWICE, MIKE
WILSON'S PLACE AND DOWN AT THE
RAINBOW THEATRE.

Steve says SOUL ON ICE?
THIS IS P.K. SUBBAN'S PARENTS
TALKING ABOUT KIDS TO AIM HIGH.

A clip plays on screen in which a man and woman in their fifties sit on a couch and speak.

The man says
IN LIFE IT'S IMPORTANT TO
HAVE A BIG DREAM.
P.K., MALCOLM, AND JORDAN, NO
ONE PLACED THEM ON TOP OF THE
HOCKEY MOUNTAIN.

A picture shows the man surrounded by three kids aged around 7 to 11.

The man continues THEY HAD TO WORK HARD TO GET THERE.
THEY HAD TO PERSEVERE TO GET
THERE.
THERE WERE TIMES WHEN WE THOUGHT
THAT IT WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN,
BUT WE NEVER GAVE UP.
AND THAT'S THE STORY.
THAT'S WHAT PARENTS NEED TO
KNOW.
THAT'S WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE NEED TO
KNOW, THAT WHATEVER THEY SET
THEIR MIND TO, THEY CAN ACHIEVE.

The clip ends.

Steve says MIKE, WHEN YOU SEE
P.K. SUBBAN MAKING, I DON'T
KNOW, WHAT DOES HE MAKE, TEN
MILLION A YEAR, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

The caption changes to "Creating a legacy."

Mike says SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
HE GAVE AWAY TEN MILLION.

Steve says YES, HE DID.
WHEN YOU SEE HIM, ONE OF THE
MOST POPULAR PLAYERS IN THE
N.H.L. TODAY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Mike says I FEEL PROUD.
YOU KNOW?
I FEEL LIKE, AS A TRAILBLAZER, I
FEEL LIKE THERE WAS A FORCE THAT
STOOD BEFORE ME AND -- FOREST
THAT STOOD BEFORE ME AND I
STARTED CHOPPING AS FAR AS I
COULD GO.
AND THE NEXT GROUP COMES IN,
THEY DON'T HAVE TO CHOP AS FAR.
THINGS ARE A LITTLE EASIER FOR
THEM.

Steve says DO YOU WATCH GAMES
ON T.V. NOW?

Mike says I DO.
I'LL HAVE A LOOK AT IT.

Steve says WHO'S YOUR TEAM?

Mike says I DON'T REALLY
HAVE A FAN.

Steve says YOU LIVE IN TORONTO, MIKE!

Mike says I'VE ALWAYS
BEEN A MAPLE LEAF FAN.
YOU JUST HAVE A LOOK AT IT.

Steve says WHEN YOU'RE
WATCHING, IT'S STILL RARE TO SEE
A BLACK FACE ON THE ICE THESE
DAYS.

Mike says TRUE.

Steve says WHEN YOU DO, DO YOU
EVER THINK -- THESE ARE BLACK
GUYS PLAYING A WHITE MAN'S GAME?

Mike says NO.

Steve says YOU DON'T THINK
THAT.

Mike says I CONSIDER
MYSELF A CANADIAN FIRST, BECAUSE
WHEN I GREW UP, WE CAME UP UNDER
THE ORIGINAL TRUDEAU REGIME
WHERE THE MULTICULTURALISM WAS
PLAYED OUT AND, YOU KNOW, YOU
HAD FRIENDS FROM EVERY WALK OF
LIFE AND EVERY NATIONALITY.
I REMEMBER GOING -- WHEN YOU
WENT HOME FOR LUNCH, YOU COULD
SMELL THE DIFFERENT FOODS BEING
COOKED.
SO AND SO'S MOM WAS MAKING
SPAGHETTI AND MEATBALLS,
SOMEBODY ELSE WAS MAKING BEANS
AND WIENERS, YOU KNOW?
AND SO FORTH.
LASAGNA AND SOUL FOOD.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST
DIFFERENT.
IT WAS JUST A DIFFERENT SETUP
TOTALLY.

The caption changes to "Producer: Katie O'Connor, @KA_Oconnor."

Steve says MIKE, IT'S GREAT TO
HAVE YOU HERE AT TVO.
THANKS SO MUCH.

Mike says MY PLEASURE.

Watch: Breaking Barriers