Transcript: Jeffrey Lyash: Nuclear Ontario | Feb 22, 2016

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a dark gray suit, white shirt, white square pocket, and doted gray tie.

Steve says WHEN YOU FLIP THE LIGHTS ON
IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO,
FULLY HALF OF THAT ELECTRICITY
IS PRODUCED BY ONE COMPANY: OPG,
ONTARIO POWER GENERATION, THE
PUBLICLY-OWNED UTILITY.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "The Agenda. Nuclear Ontario."

Steve continues ITS NEW PRESIDENT AND CEO IS
JEFFREY LYASH, WHO'S BEEN ON THE
JOB FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW.
HE'S GOT SOME BIG, VERY
EXPENSIVE PLANS FOR OPG, SO WE
THOUGHT WE'D GET HIM IN HERE TO
FIND OUT MORE.
AND WITH THAT, WE WELCOME
JEFFREY LYASH TO TVO.
IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU.

Jeffrey Lyash is in his early fifties, clean-shaven with blond hair. He’s wearing a blue suit, pale blue shirt and light golden tie.

Jeffrey says THANKS,
STEVE.
I'M GLAD TO BE HERE.

Steve says WELCOME TO THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
BECAUSE YOU'RE NEW HERE, WE
THOUGHT WE WOULD PUT UP BULLET
POINTS AND INTRODUCE PEOPLE TO
YOU AND SEE WHAT YOUR BACKGROUND
IS.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE BY TRAINING
A MECHANICAL ENGINEER.
YOU'VE BEEN IN THE UTILITY
INDUSTRY SINCE 1981.
A FORMER INSPECTOR WITH THE U.S.
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
FROM '85 TO '93.
YOU WORKED YOUR WAY UP THROUGH
PROGRESS ENERGY AND EVENTUALLY
DUKE ENERGY CORPORATION,
BECOMING CEO, AND THERE ARE YOUR
YEARS THERE.
ONTARIO GOT YOU FROM CHICAGO
BRIDGE AND IRON POWER WHERE YOU
HAD SPENT THE PREVIOUS FEW
YEARS.

A slate reads "Jeffrey Lyash. Resume. Mechanical Engineer (Drexel University). In the utility industry since 1981. U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 1985-1993. Progress Energy/Duke Energy 1993-2012. Chicago Bridge and Iron Power 2013/2015."

The caption changes to "New Kid in Town."

Steve continues THE FIRST THING I WANT TO KNOW
IS YOUR FIRST IMPRESSION OF THE
ELECTRICITY GENERATION SYSTEM
HERE THAT YOU ARE NOW
RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPARED TO
OTHER PLACES THAT YOU WORKED.

Jeffrey says WELL,
THEY'RE MORE THE SAME THAN
DIFFERENT, FRANKLY, STEVE.

The caption changes to "Jeffrey Lyash. Ontario Power Generation."

Jeffrey continues I CHOSE THIS CAREER, AND I'M
GLAD I DID, BECAUSE POWER,
SPECIFICALLY ELECTRIC POWER, IS
SO IMPORTANT.
IT'S A DRIVER IN THE ECONOMY,
PEOPLE'S SECURITY, QUALITY OF
LIFE.
IT'S A PRODUCT WE ALL RELY ON
EVERY DAY.
SO THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES
WITH THAT AND THE STEWARDSHIP
THAT COMES WITH THAT REALLY IS
UNIVERSAL.
ANYBODY THAT'S IN THIS BUSINESS
HAS THAT.
AND I FEEL THAT SAME BURDEN HERE
AS I DID ANYWHERE ELSE.
OF COURSE, THIS IS PUBLIC POWER.
SO IT ALSO COMES WITH A
DIMENSION OF NOT ONLY PROVIDING
SAFE, CLEAN, RELIABLE,
SUSTAINABLE POWER AT THE LOWEST
POSSIBLE COST, WHICH IS OUR
MISSION, BUT ALSO SUPPORTING THE
DEVELOPMENT OF TECHNOLOGY AND
SUPPORTING DEPLOYMENT OF PUBLIC
POLICY THAT ONTARIANS INSIST ON
AND DESERVE.

Steve says YOU'RE A
PENNSYLVANIA GUY.

Jeffrey says I AM.

Steve says ANY QUALMS ABOUT
MOVING TO CANADA?

Jeffrey says MY WIFE AND
I ARE FLEXIBLE.
WHAT I'M INTERESTED IS HAVING
SOMETHING IMPORTANT AND
CHALLENGING TO DO.
WE FELT ONTARIO AND CANADA IS
IT.
WE HAVE SEVEN GRANDKIDS BACK IN
THE UNITED STATES.

Steve says SEVEN GRANDKIDS?

Jeffrey says THAT'S
RIGHT.

Steve says YOU'RE 54 YEARS OLD
AND HAVE SEVEN GRANDKIDS.

Jeffrey says I DO.
AND NUMBER 8 ON THE WAY.
WE'RE VERY PROUD OF IT.

Jeffrey smiles.

Steve says CONGRATULATIONS.
LET US REMIND EVERYBODY, WHEN
YOU SWITCH THE LIGHT SWITCH ON
IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, HERE
IS HOW YOUR ELECTRICITY IS
GENERATED.
HERE'S OUR PIE CHART.
ONE CAN SEE NUCLEAR MAKES UP THE
LION'S SHARE OF HOW WE MAKE
ELECTRICITY IN THIS PROVINCE,
AND IF YOU GO AROUND, THERE'S
HYDRO-ELECTRIC AT 22 percent, GAS AND
WIND, BIOFUELS, AND OF COURSE
CONSPICUOUS BY ITS ABSENCE ON
THAT LIST IS COAL.
WE NO LONGER HAVE COAL-FIRED
GENERATING STATIONS IN THIS
PROVINCE.
THEY WERE PHASED OUT A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO.
HOW MUCH OF THAT FIX ARE YOU
RESPONSIBLE FOR?

Jeffrey says OPG PROVIDES
ABOUT HALF OF THE ELECTRICAL
ENERGY TO THE PROVINCE THAT'S
CONSUMED ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.
WE DO IT AT ABOUT A 40 PERCENT
DISCOUNT TO THE REST OF THE
MARKET.
WE REALLY ARE THE LOW COST
PROVIDER IN ONTARIO.
I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT.
THAT'S A ROLE WE WANT TO
MAINTAIN.
OUR POWER IS ABOUT 99.7 percent
GREENHOUSE GAS-FREE, BECAUSE THE
LION'S SHARE OF IT COMES FROM
NUCLEAR AND HYDRO, SOME BIOMASS,
AND IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL, SOME
SOLAR, WITH JUST A TINY BIT OF
GAS.

Steve says AND OF THE 61 percent OF
THE NUCLEAR MIX IN ONTARIO, WHAT
PERCENTAGE OF THAT DO YOU
CREATE?

Jeffrey says WE'RE
BETWEEN ABOUT 35 AND 40 PERCENT
OF THAT.
THE REMAINDER IS BRUCE POWER.
SO THE THREE PRINCIPAL PROVIDERS
ARE PICKERING AND DARLINGTON,
OPG FACILITIES, AND BRUCE POWER,
WHICH IS OPG-OWNED BUT LEASED
THROUGH A PRIVATE-PUBLIC
PARTNERSHIP THAT DOES AN
EXCELLENT JOB RUNNING BRUCE
POWER.

Steve says DO YOU CONSIDER THEM
COMPETITION?

Jeffrey says NO, I DON'T.
I THINK IN THIS SEGMENT, THE
IMPORTANCE OF ELECTRICITY IS SO
PARAMOUNT, PARTICULARLY IN THE
NUCLEAR BUSINESS, THAT WE DON'T
VIEW EACH OTHER AS COMPETITORS.
WE COLLABORATE, WE COOPERATE.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE...
DUNCAN HAWTHORNE AND I HAVE A
COLLABORATION AGREEMENT AROUND
THE REFURBISHMENTS, TO SHARE
LESSONS LEARNED TO MAKE SURE
WE'RE BOTH SUCCESSFUL.

Steve says ON THE ISSUE, LET'S
TALK ABOUT THAT.
DARLINGTON.
YOU WEREN'T HERE WHEN DARLINGTON
WAS BUILT BUT I WAS, THIS GOES
BACK 30 YEARS AND WHAT A DOG'S
BREAKFAST THIS WAS FROM THE
GET-GO.
IT WAS OVERBUDGET AND BEHIND
SCHEDULE FROM THE BEGINNING.
NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 12.
12.8 BILLION TO REBUILD?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO THERE?

The caption changes to "Dollars and Sense."

Jeffrey says CERTAINLY
THE EARLY LIFE OF NUCLEAR POWER
WERE DIFFICULT.
THESE WERE FIRST OF THEIR KIND
PLANTS, AND THERE WERE LICENSING
DELAYS.
WE CAN'T IGNORE THAT HISTORY.
WE HAVE TO LEARN FROM IT.
WE DID.
WE HAVE WORKED ON THE OPERATION
OF THESE PLANTS TO THE POINT
WHERE NOW THE DARLINGTON UNIT IS
ONE OF THE BEST PERFORMING
NUCLEAR PLANTS IN THE WORLD AND
I WOULD ARGUE THE BEST
PERFORMING CANDU REACTOR.
YOU CAN BE CONFIDENT IF WE'RE
SUCCESSFUL IN DOING IT, IT'S
GOING TO PAY OFF THAT INVESTMENT
OVER THE FOLLOWING 30 YEARS.
IT'S A BIG PROJECT,
12.8 BILLION DOLLARS, AS YOU MENTIONED,
AND SO IT IS CRITICAL THAT WE
EXECUTE THIS PROJECT ON TIME, ON
BUDGET, AT THE LEVEL OF QUALITY
THAT A NUCLEAR FACILITY DEMANDS
AND SAFELY.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DETERMINED
TO DO.
PART OF MY DUE DILIGENCE BEFORE
I DECIDED TO COME HERE, AS I
SAID, WAS LOOKING AT THE
CHALLENGE.
IS IT SOMETHING I THOUGHT I
COULD CONTRIBUTE TO?
PART OF THAT MORE SPECIFICALLY:
IS OPG READY TO TAKE ON
SOMETHING OF THE MAGNITUDE OF
DARLINGTON?
ARE THEY PREPARED?
THE ANSWER SHOULD BE OBVIOUS.
IF I HAD BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER
THAT QUESTION YES, I WOULDN'T BE
HERE.

Steve says YOU'VE ANSWERED IN
THE AFFIRMATIVE.
AS YOU LOOK AT THE PAST OF THIS
COMPANY, IT'S NEVER COME IN ON
TIME OR BUDGET WHEN IT COMES TO
NUCLEAR BUILD.

Jeffrey says BUT THERE
HAVE BEEN MAJOR PROJECTS RUN BY
OPG IN THE PAST ON THE PICKERING
STATION THAT HAVE COME IN ON
TIME AND BUDGET, SO THE COMPANY
IS CAPABLE.
MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE
PREPARATION THAT HAS GONE IN TO
DARLINGTON FOR REFURBISHMENT,
FIVE YEARS IN THE MAKING, IS
EXHAUSTIVE.
THE BEST PREPARATION I'VE SEEN
FOR A MEGA PROJECT IN MY CAREER,
AND I'VE SEEN QUITE A FEW OVER A
BILLION DOLLARS.
SO I THINK THE PREPARATION HAS
BEEN JUST OUTSTANDING.
A COUPLE OTHER CRITICAL THINGS
WHEN YOU TAKE ON A PROJECT OF
THIS NATURE: IS THE SCOPE CLEAR?
ARE YOU VERY CLEAR ABOUT EXACTLY
WHAT IS GOING TO BE EXECUTED?
AND THAT IS THE CASE HERE.
THE SCOPE IS VERY CLEAR.
HAVE YOU COMPLETED ALL THE
ENGINEERING NECESSARY BEFORE YOU
START THE WORK?
SO YOU DO THE RIGHT WORK THE
FIRST TIME.
AND THE ANSWER IS YES.
THE ENGINEERING PRODUCTS WERE
COMPLETE LAST AUGUST.
THE LAST ITEM I MIGHT MENTION
IS, IS THERE A REALISTIC COST
AND SCHEDULE THAT RECOGNIZES
THAT NOT ALL WILL GO WELL,
UNDERSTANDS THE EMBEDDED RISKS,
AND ACCOUNTS FOR THEM IN COST
AND SCHEDULE.
AND AGAIN, I CAN TICK THIS BOX.
THE ORGANIZATION HAS DONE AN
EXCELLENT JOB.
I MENTION THOSE BECAUSE IN MY
EXPERIENCE THOSE ARE THE THINGS
THAT, IF YOU GET THEM WRONG, SET
MEGA PROJECTS OFF IN THE WRONG
DIRECTION AND ULTIMATELY NEED TO
COST AND SCHEDULE OVERRUNS.
EXECUTION'S CRITICAL.
WE'VE GOT A GOOD PLAN.
NOW WE HAVE TO EXECUTE IT.
BUT WE HAVE A GOOD PLAN.

Steve says YOU DO HAVE SOME
HISTORY DEALING WITH -- WHAT'S
THE TECHNICAL TERM?
TURKEYS, RIGHT?
THERE'S CRYSTAL RIVER IN
FLORIDA.

Jeffrey nods.

Steve continues CRYSTAL RIVER WHICH I GUESS WAS
SHUT DOWN IN 2009.
HAS IT REOPENED YET?

Jeffrey says NO.
CRYSTAL RIVER HAS BEEN RETIRED.

Steve says IT'S DONE.

Jeffrey says THAT'S
RIGHT.
THERE WERE ISSUES WITH THAT
PLANT DESIGN AND THERE WERE
PHYSICAL ISSUES WITH IT THAT
JUST MADE IT NON-ECONOMIC TO
RETURN THE PLANT TO SERVICE.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU LEARN
FROM -- CLEARLY THAT WAS NOT
SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.
THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A
PROJECT THAT WOULD CONTINUE TO
PROVIDE POWER FOR FLORIDIANS AND
BEYOND.

Jeffrey says THAT'S
RIGHT.

Steve says NOW IT WON'T.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THAT
THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO BRING
HERE?

Jeffrey says YOU MUST
REALLY UNDERSTAND THE DESIGN OF
THE PLANT AND THE ENGINEERING
BEHIND THE ACTIVITIES THAT
YOU'RE GOING TO UNDERTAKE.
AND WITH PARTICULAR EMPHASIS ON
FIRST OF A KIND EVOLUTIONS.
AND SO IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I
LOOKED AT IN THE PREPARATION FOR
DARLINGTON: HOW WELL HAD THE
ORGANIZATION DONE THAT?
I THINK IT'S DONE IT FAIRLY
WELL.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU CALL
IT?
FIRST OF A KIND?

Jeffrey says FIRST OF A
KIND.
ANY TIME YOU'RE GOING TO
UNDERTAKE A PROJECT OR AN
ACTIVITY THAT IS THE FIRST TIME
IT'S BEEN ATTEMPTED, YOU NEED TO
BE PARTICULARLY CAREFUL WITH
THAT.
YOU REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND
ALL OF THE EMBEDDED RISK IN WHAT
COULD GO WRONG.
LUCKILY IN THE DARLINGTON
REFURBISHMENT, THERE ARE VERY
FEW FIRST OF A KIND ACTIVITIES.
AND THE FIRST OF A KIND
ACTIVITIES THAT ARE BEING
UNDERTAKING HAD EXTENSIVE
ANALYSIS, FULL-SCALE MOCKUP,
TOOLING AND TESTING COMPLETE
OUTSIDE OF THE PLANT BEFORE WE
EVER SET FOOT IN THE PLANT.

Steve says TELL ME WHETHER THIS
IS A FIRST OF A KIND FOR YOU
HERE.
YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH A
TYPICAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH PRIVATE
OWNERSHIP.
YOU'RE DEALING WITH POLITICS.
THE BOSS, I GUESS, TECHNICALLY
IS THE MINISTER OF ENERGY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH CONTACT OR
HOW MUCH EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE
DEALING WITH THE POLITICS AROUND
NUCLEAR ENERGY OR ENERGY
GENERATION, BUT THERE'S BEEN A
TON OF IT IN THIS PROVINCE FOR
40 YEARS.
HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HOW
THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT
ON WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO?

Jeffrey says CERTAINLY.
THAT'S PART OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO BE
EFFECTIVE DEALING WITH.
NOW, I MUST TELL YOU, THERE ARE
ADVANTAGES TO HAVING A SINGLE
SHAREHOLDER OVER HAVING MULTIPLE
SHAREHOLDERS.
THERE ARE ALSO DISADVANTAGES.
IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF ONE'S
BETTER OR WORSE; IT'S JUST A
DIFFERENT APPROACH YOU HAVE TO
TAKE TO MANAGING THAT
RELATIONSHIP.
I THINK IN ONTARIO HERE WE'RE
LUCKY.
I'VE BEEN IMPRESSED THAT THE
MINISTER OF ENERGY AND THE STAFF
THERE ARE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE OF
THE ISSUES.
THEY'VE BEEN VERY ENGAGED WITH
OPG, PARTICULARLY ON THE LEAD-UP
TO THE DARLINGTON DECISION AND
TO THE PICKERING DECISION, AND
SO I THINK THE WORKING
RELATIONSHIP THERE IS QUITE
GOOD.
IT'S CHALLENGING, AS IT OUGHT TO
BE.
BUT IT'S CONSTRUCTIVE.

Steve says WELL, ONE OF THE
THINGS WE'VE BEEN TOLD IN THE
PAST IS EVERY TIME POLITICS GETS
INVOLVED, THE PRICE TAG GOES UP,
AND THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT
OPG OR ITS PREVIOUS COMPANY,
ONTARIO HYDRO, HAD SO MUCH
DIFFICULTY BRINGING IN THESE
NUCLEAR PROJECTS ON TIME AND ON
BUDGET WAS POLITICAL
INTERFERENCE.
HAVE YOU HAD THAT CONVERSATION
WITH THE MINISTER AND HOW DO YOU
AVOID THAT THIS TIME?

Jeffrey says I CAN'T
COMMENT ON THE HISTORY BECAUSE I
WASN'T HERE.
I CAN ONLY TELL YOU ABOUT MY
EXPERIENCE OVER THE LAST 6
MONTHS AND I HAVEN'T HAD ISSUE.
OUR DISCUSSIONS HAVE BEEN FRANK,
OPEN.
I THINK SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY-BASED.
AND WHERE THERE ARE CONCERNS
EXPRESSED TO ME FROM THE
SHAREHOLDER, THEY ARE LEGITIMATE
CONCERNS THAT I NEED TO ADDRESS.

Steve says HAVE YOU HAD A
CHANCE TO MEET JACK GIBBONS WITH
ONTARIO CLEAN ALLIANCE?

Jeffrey says I HAVE,
BRIEFLY.
WE HAD A SESSION WHERE I INVITED
A NUMBER OF HISTORIC
INTERVENEORS TO TALK ABOUT
THINGS LIKE THE DARLINGTON
REFURB AND JACK ATTENDED.

Steve says JACK IS GOING TO BE
ON THE PROGRAM TOMORROW NIGHT
AND WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT
THIS OBVIOUSLY, AND I THINK ONE
OF THE THINGS HE'LL TELL US IS
NO NUCLEAR PROJECT IN ONTARIO
HISTORY HAS EVER COME IN ON TIME
OR ON BUDGET, IN FACT THEY'VE
EXCEEDED THE BUDGET BY TWO AND A
HALF TIMES.
HOW WOULD YOU ASSURE HIM AND OF
COURSE ONTARIANS IN GENERAL THAT
WON'T HAPPEN ON YOUR WATCH?

Jeffrey says WELL, I'D
SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS.
THE FIRST IS THAT THERE HAVE
BEEN PROJECTS HERE IN CANADA,
NUCLEAR-BASED, THAT HAVE COME IN
ON TIME AND ON BUDGET, VERY
CHALLENGING PROJECTS.
SO THE RECORD ISN'T QUITE AS
DISMAL AS JACK MIGHT PAINT.
HOWEVER, YOU'VE GOT TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THERE HAVE BEEN
PLENTY OF OVERBUDGET,
OVER SCHEDULE PROJECTS IN THE
EARLY DAYS OF THE NUCLEAR FLEET.
I WOULD SAY THE ISSUE ISN'T
NUCLEAR PROJECTS.
THE ISSUE IS MEGA PROJECTS IN
GENERAL.
BUILDING PROJECTS OF THIS SCALE,
MAGNITUDE, COST, COMPLEXITY,
WHETHER THEY'RE THE BIG DIG IN
BOSTON OR THE BRIDGE SYSTEM IN
SCANDINAVIA OR MUSKRAT FALLS OR
DARLINGTON REFURB, IT'S THE
NATURE OF MEGA PROJECTS TO BE
CHALLENGING.
THE WAY THAT WE'RE APPROACHING
THE DARLINGTON REFURB IS TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, TO FOCUS ON
THE RISKS AND SOME OF THESE
THINGS I MENTIONED EARLIER, AND
GO INTO THIS EYES WIDE OPEN WITH
THE RIGHT SCHEDULE CONTINGENCY,
THE RIGHT COST CONTINGENCY, THE
RIGHT PLANNING, THE RIGHT
PREPARATION.
THE RESULT OF THAT IS, I'M
CONFIDENT, THAT WE CAN EXECUTE
THIS PROJECT ON TIME AND ON
SCHEDULE, AND WE'LL BEGIN TO
DEMONSTRATE THAT IN EARNEST IN
OCTOBER WHEN WE START THE FIRST
UNIT.

Steve says ONE OF THE THINGS,
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A SNEAK
PEEK ABOUT WHAT JACK IS GOING TO
SAY TOMORROW NIGHT, BUT ONE OF
THE THINGS HE WILL TELL US IS
THAT THIS PROVINCE COULD SAVE A
WHOLE LOT OF MONEY, HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, IF WE
PURCHASED POWER FROM QUEBEC
INSTEAD OF TRYING TO GENERATE IT
OURSELVES.
CHECK THE MONITOR OVER YOUR
SHOULDER THERE AND WE WILL PLAY
THE CLIP OF JACK GIBBONS
TOMORROW NIGHT FROM THE ONTARIO
CLEAR AIR ALLIANCE.
ROLL IT PLEASE, SHELDON.

A clip plays.

Jack Gibbons sits in the studio, He is in his sixties, with receding white hair and clean-shaven. He’s wearing black-rimmed glasses, a striped dark blue suit, blue shirt and striped red and blue tie.

Jack says THE BEST OPTION TO MEET OUR
ELECTRICITY NEEDS IS WATER
POWER.
INSTEAD OF REBUILDING OUR AGING
NUCLEAR REACTORS, PREMIER WYNNE
SHOULD HAVE NEGOTIATED A DEAL
WITH QUEBEC TO IMPORT LOW-COST
WATER POWER FROM QUEBEC.

The clip ends.

Steve says HE SAYS IF WE DID
THAT, WE'D SAVE 600 MILLION
BUCKS.
IS THAT AN OPTION?

Jeffrey says I THINK IT'S
A FALSE CHOICE THAT JACK'S
PRESENTING.
I THINK THAT EXPLORING WATER
POWER FROM QUEBEC IS SOMETHING
WE OUGHT TO DO AS A PROVINCE AND
THAT IS ACTIVELY BEING PURSUED
BECAUSE I THINK IT'S LIKELY A
PART OF OUR FUTURE.
ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO
REALIZE IS WE BUY POWER FROM
QUEBEC NOW AND WE SELL QUEBEC
CAPACITY BECAUSE THEY ARE SHORT
OF GENERATING CAPACITY IN THE
WINTER.
WE HAVE A CAPACITY EXCHANGE
PROGRAM.
THE FACT IS THAT THE GENERATING
STATIONS AND THE TRANSMISSION TO
DO THAT DON'T EXIST TODAY, AND
ARE PROBABLY GREATER THAN
10 BILLION DOLLARS IN THE MAKING ALONG
WITH SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS TO
CONSTRUCT THE TRANSMISSION.

Steve says YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO
BUILD THEM, THOUGH, WOULD YOU?
HYDRO ONE WOULD BUILD THEM?

Jeffrey says HYDRO ONE
WOULD BUILD THEM.
SOMEONE STILL HAS TO BUILD THEM.
THE PRICE OF THAT IS GOING TO BE
EMBEDDED IN THE PRICE OF THE
POWER.
MY POINT IS, THAT POWER IS NOT
AVAILABLE AS WE SIT HERE TODAY.
IT SHOULD BE EXPLORED AND
LEVERAGED FOR US OVER THE LONG
TERM, AND I THINK IT WILL.
IT IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR
DARLINGTON, PICKERING, OR BRUCE
POWER, WHICH YOU POINTED OUT
GENERATE A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF
THE ELECTRICITY IN THE PROVINCE
TODAY.
THE APPROACH HERE SHOULD BE TO
PRESERVE OUR NUCLEAR ASSET FOR
ANOTHER GENERATION, CARBON-FREE,
LOW COST, 7 TO 8 CENTS POWER,
LEVERAGE THE HYDRO ASSETS WE
HAVE IN THE PROVINCE IN ORDER TO
GET THE MOST OUT OF THOSE AND
EXPLORE ALL THE ALTERNATIVES
FROM OUR NEIGHBOURS FOR
LOW-COST, SUSTAINABLE,
LOW-CARBON ELECTRICITY.
IT'S NOT A CHOICE BETWEEN THESE
ALTERNATIVES.
WE'VE GOT TO PURSUE THEM ALL IF
WE'RE GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

Steve says ONE OF THE THINGS
I'VE HEARD AS WELL, AND YOU CAN
TELL ME WHETHER YOU FIND THIS TO
BE YOUR EXPERIENCE, IS THAT WE
WANT -- IT'S GOING TO SOUND
FUNNY, I'M GOINT TO
USE A FRENCH
EXPRESSION HERE, BECAUSE THEY DO USE IT
IN QUEBEC , MAÎTRES CHEZ NOUS,
WE WANT TO BE MASTERS
OF OUR OWN HOUSE.
IF WE RELY TOO MUCH ON QUEBEC
FOR OUR ENERGY GENERATION, WE
WON'T BE.
IS THAT A CONCERN?

Jeffrey says I THINK IT
IS A CONCERN.
IT'S NOT THE ONLY CONCERN.
LOOK, TRANSMITTING POWER OVER
LONG DISTANCES HAS RISKS
ASSOCIATED WITH IT, IT HAS
RELIABILITY RISKS, IT HAS
ECONOMIC RISKS.
YOU WANT TO TRY TO LOOK AT THE
ONTARIO FOOTPRINT, EXPLOIT THE
RESOURCES WE HAVE, BUILD THE
CAPACITY THAT WE OUGHT TO BUILD,
SPEND THOSE DOLLARS IN THE
ONTARIO ECONOMY WHERE THEY CAN
MULTIPLY.
YOU NEED TO THINK VERY CAREFULLY
ABOUT EXPORTING DOLLARS AND
DEPENDENCE TO AN ADJACENT
PROVINCE.
IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T DO
IT.
IT JUST MEANS YOU HAVE TO DO IT
IN BALANCE, AS WITH MOST THINGS.
IT'S PART OF THE SOLUTION, NOT
THE ENTIRETY
OF THE SOLUTION.

Steve says ONE OF THE THINGS
JACK ALSO SAYS IS THE NUCLEAR
INDUSTRY IS EXPERT AT LOBBYING
GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE THAT
WHATEVER FUTURE PROJECTS THAT
ARE GOING TO BE DONE ARE GOING
TO BE HERE IN THE NUCLEAR
INDUSTRY AS OPPOSED TO OTHER
PROVINCES.
IS LOBBYING A FACTOR IN THIS AS
WELL?

Jeffrey says I DON'T
AGREE WITH THAT.
WHAT IS A FACTOR IS THE PRICE OF
THE POWER.
DARLINGTON IS 7 TO 8 CENTS PER
KILOWATT HOUR, WHICH IS VERY
LOW-COST POWER AND I'M VERY
DOUBTFUL YOU COULD REPLICATE
THAT BY INVESTING MONEY IN
QUEBEC IN TRANSMISSION AND
IMPORTING IT HERE, IT'S
GREENHOUSE GAS-FREE, AND IT
BENEFITS THE ECONOMY OF ONTARIO.
AGAIN, I DON'T THINK LOBBYING
HAS TO DO WITH IT.
I THINK IT'S CLEARLY THE LOWEST
COST, MOST ENVIRONMENTALLY
BENEFICIAL POWER WE CAN FOCUS ON
RIGHT NOW, AND AGAIN, I DON'T
THINK THAT IT'S IN COMPETITION
WITH POWER FROM QUEBEC .
I THINK THEY'RE COMPLEMENTARY.
WE SHOULD PURSUE BOTH.

Steve says LET'S GET ONE MORE
ISSUE ON THE TABLE HERE.
YOU'VE BEEN QUITE ACCURATE IN
SAYING THAT THE LION'S SHARE OF
WHAT YOU DO, 99.9 PERCENT OF
WHAT YOU DO DOESN'T PUT SMOKE UP
INTO THE AIR AND CAUSE
GREENHOUSE GASES.
HOWEVER, THERE ARE COMPLICATIONS
WITH NUCLEAR ENERGY.

The caption changes to "Safety."

Steve continues FOR EXAMPLE, THE WASTE THAT IS
CREATED.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING
TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER TO
ALLOW OPG TO BURY ITS NUCLEAR
WASTE IN WHAT'S CALLED A DEEP
GEOLOGICAL DEPOSITARY NEAR
BRUCE, ABOUT A KILOMETRE AWAY
FROM LAKE HURON.
SEAN McCARTHY HAS BEEN
COVERING THIS ISSUE IN
THE GLOBE
AND MAIL AND HERE IS AN EXCERPT
OF WHAT HE WROTE RECENTLY...

The slate changes to show a picture of the sea under the title "Burying the problem." The slate reads "For nuclear power producers, the Bruce DGR represents a part of a long-term answer to a thorny problem that has dogged the industry since its postwar inception: what to do with the radioactive waste that will remain dangerous long after the reactors are gone, in some cases for hundreds of thousands of years. In fact, OPG is currently storing low-and intermediate-level waste at ground level at the site, but it wants a permanent solution… In cottage-friendly towns like Inverhuron, Kincadine, Tiverton and Saugeen Shores, neighbours have taken opposing sides. Lawn signs proclaiming, ¡No Nuclear Waste Dump’ and ‘Save Our Shores’ sprouted like weeds this summer, and at public meetings prominent speakers have declaimed against the risk of contaminating the Great Lakes, which provide drinking water for 40 million people." Quoted from "Shawn McCarthy, The Globe and Mail. Sept. 12, 2013."

Steve continues WHY ARE YOU SO
CONFIDENT THAT THIS SITE NEAR
LAKE HURON IS THE WAY TO GO?

Jeffrey says YES.
WELL, IF I CAN COMMENT FIRST ON
THE ISSUE OF WASTE.
SO THIS CERTAINLY IS AN ISSUE
FOR THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY.
I DON'T SEE IT AS AN UNSOLVABLE
PROBLEM.
THE TECHNOLOGY, THE ENGINEERING,
THE SAFETY PROBLEMS EXIST TO
SAFELY HANDLE AND DISPOSE OF
RADIOACTIVE WASTE.
WE'RE TALKING LOW LEVEL AND
INTERMEDIATE LEVEL WASTE.
NOT A VERY TOXIC SUBSTANCE.
IT'S VERY STRAIGHTFORWARDLY
MANAGED.
WE STORE IT SAFELY ABOVE GROUND
NOW.
THAT IS NOT THE BEST, THE
OPTIMUM SOLUTION.
A PERMANENT SOLUTION IS WHAT WE
NEED.
IN THE CASE OF THE D.G.R. AT
KINCARDINE, WHAT WE HAVE IS A
GEOLOGICAL SUITABLE SITE.
WE'VE DONE EXHAUSTIVE RESEARCH
ON THIS, LOOKING AT THIS
PARTICULAR SITE.
THIS GEOGRAPHICALLY MAY BE NEAR
LAKE HURON.
GEOLOGICALLY IT'S A THOUSAND
MILES AWAY IN THE COBOURNE ROCK
FORMATION, EXTREMELY
IMPERMEABLE, SEISMICALLY STABLE
ROCK FORMATION THAT IS
TAILOR-MADE TO RECEIVE WASTE
LIKE THIS WITH CONFIDENCE THAT
IT WILL BE SAFE FOR GENERATIONS.

Steve says WHY DON'T THE LOCALS
BELIEVE THAT?

Jeffrey says ACTUALLY,
OUR VIEW IS WE HAVE STRONG LOCAL
SUPPORT.
AS IN ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL
LIKE THIS, THERE ARE SOME WHO
OPPOSE, BUT OUR ASSESSMENT IS,
WE HAVE STRONG LOCAL SUPPORT AND
SPONSORSHIP AND THAT EMERGES
EACH TIME WE GET TO A MILESTONE
IN THIS PROJECT.
WE BELIEVE WE HAVE THAT AND WE
BELIEVE WE'LL CONTINUE TO HAVE
THAT.
THAT'S BUILT ON BEING VERY OPEN
AND TRANSPARENT WITH THIS
PROCESS.
SO WE BELIEVE IT'S A GOOD SITE.
WE BELIEVE WE HAVE THE RIGHT
LOCAL SUPPORT.
WE BELIEVE IT CAN BE STORED
SAFELY.
NOW, I'VE GOT TO ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT IT'S CONTROVERSIAL AND IT
TAKES TIME, POLITICAL, SOCIALLY,
TO BE ABLE TO VET THESE THINGS
AND ENSURE THAT EVERYONE HAS THE
LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE WE HAVE, OR
AT LEAST NEARLY EVERYONE, AS WE
PROCEED THROUGH THE PROCESS.
AND SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE
TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNMENT,
FOLLOW THEIR LEAD, MAKE SURE WE
EXHAUST EVERY QUESTION AND EVERY
CONCERN AS WE HEAD TOWARD WHAT
WE HOPE WILL ULTIMATELY BE THE
RIGHT LONG-TERM SOLUTION FOR
DISPOSAL OF THIS WASTE.

Steve says ONE LAST QUESTION:
YOU'VE COME INTO THIS JOB AT A
PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE TIME IN
THE HISTORY OF THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO, RIGHT?

The caption changes to "Dissatisfaction."

Steve continues WE'VE JUST COME THROUGH, IN THE
PREVIOUS LIBERAL GOVERNMENT,
SOME -- YOU KNOW, SOME REALLY
QUESTIONABLE THINGS AROUND GAS
PLANTS BEING CANCELLED AT THE
11TH HOUR DURING ELECTION
CAMPAIGNS AND ALL OF THIS
BUSINESS.
THE PARTIAL PRIVATIZATION OF
HYDRO ONE.
I KNOW THAT'S NOT YOUR COMPANY.
ENERGY ISSUES ARE BIG RIGHT NOW.
THERE IS A FEELING OUT THERE
AMONG A LOT OF PEOPLE I THINK
THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
THE INDUSTRY AND MAYBE THE
GOVERNMENT AND THE REGULATORS IS
TOO COSY RIGHT NOW AND THE
PUBLIC -- PUBLIC CONFIDENCE, AS
A RESULT OF ALL OF THIS STUFF,
MUCH OF WHICH HAPPENED BEFORE
YOU GOT HERE, OBVIOUSLY, IS
CONCERNING.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT?

Jeffrey says WELL, I
PERSONALLY BELIEVE IN STRONG,
INDEPENDENT, AND EFFECTIVE
REGULATORS.
I VIEW THAT AS AN EXECUTIVE AS
BEING ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT
ELEMENTS IN MY SUCCESS.
SO AS I LOOK AT IT AS AN
OUTSIDER, I DON'T HAVE THE
HISTORY HERE.
OUR PRIMARY REGULATORS ARE THE
CANADIAN NUCLEAR SAFETY
COMMISSION WHO I VIEW AS
EXTREMELY TECHNICAL CREDIBLE,
COMPETENT, WITH VERY CLEAR AND
DISCIPLINED PROCESSES.
WE JUST WENT THROUGH ONE ON THE
DARLINGTON RELICENSING, SO I HAD
AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN
IT.
I WOULD TELL YOU THAT'S AS GOOD
AS ANY REGULATORY PROCESS I'VE
SEEN IN THE WORLD.
THE SECOND PRIMARY REGULATOR FOR
ME IS THE ONTARIO ENERGY BOARD.
THEY REGULATE COSTS AND RATES.
AND ONCE AGAIN, MY VIEW IS, A
STRONG AND COMPETENT O.E.B. WHO
CAN SCRUTINIZE OUR RATE
PROPOSALS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY
ARE PRUDENT, REASONABLE, THAT
THERE'S A FAIR RETURN ON THE
INVESTMENT, THAT THE CUSTOMER
INTERESTS ARE PROTECTED, IS
PARAMOUNT.
MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR WITH THE
O.E.B. IS THEY ARE THAT, AT
LEAST IN DEALING WITH OPG.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE REST OF
THE AGENCIES THEY DEAL WITH.
SO, YOU KNOW, MY VIEW IS STRONG
REGULATORS ARE IMPORTANT.
IT SEEMS TO ME WE HAVE THEM
HERE.
BUT I'LL LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT
OVER THE COMING YEARS AS I TAKE
ISSUES TO THEM.

Steve says AND THE PUBLIC OUGHT
TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE ENERGY
SYSTEM IN THIS PROVINCE?

Jeffrey says THEY SHOULD.
I THINK THE ENERGY SYSTEM IN
THIS PROVINCE IS ACTUALLY QUITE
A REMARKABLE ASSET.
YOU KNOW, THIS SYSTEM HAS BEEN
DECARBONIZED, AS YOU SHOWED,
IT'S PRIMARILY NUCLEAR, HYDRO, A
SMALL DOSE OF GAS, AND A GROWING
SEGMENT OF RENEWABLES.
I THINK THAT'S THE GENERATION
PORTFOLIO OF THE FUTURE.
MOST OF THE REST OF NORTH
AMERICA IS GOING TO HAVE TO
FOLLOW SUIT IN THIS DIRECTION.
ONTARIO GOT THERE QUICKER.
SOME MIGHT SAY AT TOO HIGH A
COST.
I'M NOT THE PERSON TO JUDGE
THAT.
BUT I THINK THE POSITION THE
SYSTEM IS IN IS QUITE STRONG.
PARTICULARLY AS WE FACE THE
CHALLENGE IN THE PROVINCE OF
DECARBONIZING THE REST OF THE
ECONOMY, WHICH IS PRIMARILY
TRANSPORTATION, HOME HEATING,
AND INDUSTRY.
THE ELECTRICITY SYSTEM IS GOING
TO HAVE TO PLAY A ROLE IN THAT.
ELECTRIFICATION IS A VERY VIABLE
WAY TO DO SOME DECARBONIZATION
OF THOSE SECTORS.
SO BUILDING OFF OF THIS BASE I
THINK IS A GREAT PLACE TO START.

Steve says GOTCHA.
JEFFREY LYASH, GOOD OF YOU TO
COME INTO TVO TONIGHT AND TAKE
OUR QUESTIONS.
GOOD TO MEET YOU AND BEST OF
LUCK GOING FORWARD.

The caption changes to "Producer: Sandra Gionas, @sandragionas."

Jeffrey says THANKS,
STEVE. I ENJOYED IT.

Steve says JEFFREY LYASH, CEO
OPG.

Watch: Jeffrey Lyash: Nuclear Ontario