Transcript: Lunch Bucket Lives | Jun 07, 2016

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and pin-dotted blue tie.

A caption on screen reads "Lunch-bucket lives. The Hammer."

Steve says TODAY, IT'S NICKNAMED
"THE HAMMER," ITS CHIEF EMPLOYER
IS THE HEALTH CARE SECTOR, AND
IT'S BECOME A COOL, AFFORDABLE
PLACE TO LIVE FOR MANY OF ITS
HALF A MILLION INHABITANTS.
BUT A CENTURY AGO, HAMILTON,
ONTARIO WAS A VERY DIFFERENT PLACE.
LET'S FIND OUT HOW DIFFERENT
FROM CRAIG HERON, WHO'S WRITTEN
"LUNCH BUCKET LIVES, REMAKING
THE WORKERS' CITY."

Craig is in his late sixties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. He's wearing glasses, a black suit, and a white shirt.

Steve continues WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU BACK
HERE AT TVO.

Craig says THANK YOU.

Steve says WE HAD YOU IN HERE
AGES AGO FOR A BOOK YOU DID ON
THE HISTORY OF BOOZE.
SADLY WE WERE NOT SAMPLING THAT
NIGHT, AS I RECALL.

Craig says AND
REGRETTABLY YOU DID NOT OFFER
ANY.

Steve says I DID NOT, NO.
ARE YOU FROM HAMILTON?

Craig says I AM NOT.

Steve says DO YOU HAVE ANY
CONNECTION TO HAMILTON?

Craig says NONE
WHATSOEVER.

Steve says SO WHAT ARE YOU
WRITING A BOOK ABOUT HAMILTON
THAT'S 750 PAGES LONG?

The caption changes to "Craig Heron. Author 'Lunch-bucket lives.'"

Craig says I WISH I HAD A
NICKEL FOR EVERY TIME I ANSWERED
THAT QUESTION.
I WAS AN EAGER BEAVER GRADUATE
STUDENT WRITING THE HISTORY OF
WORKERS AND I WANTED TO DO A
CITY STUDY, THAT'S WHAT
EVERYBODY WAS DOING IN THOSE
DAYS, COMMUNITY STUDY.
HAMILTON WAS THE RIGHT SIZE.
IT HAD THE PARTICULAR
COMBINATION OF INDUSTRIES I WAS
INTERESTED IN.
IT WAS AN ACADEMIC DECISION TO
START WITH.
GRADUALLY WITH ALL MY TRIPS
THERE, I GOT MORE AND MORE
ENTRANCED WITH THE PLACE, IF YOU
CAN BELIEVE IT.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU MEAN IF
I CAN BELIEVE IT?
I'M FROM HAMILTON.
OF COURSE I CAN BELIEVE IT.

Craig says PART OF IT,
YOU AND I HAVING MY NEW AFFINITY
WITH IT BUT YOUR OLD ONE, MOST
PEOPLE'S UNDERAPPRECIATION OF
THE CITY IS THE BURLINGTON
SKYWAY WHERE YOU CAN SEE ALL THE
BELCHING SMOKE STACKS AND THEY
THINK IT'S A PRETTY UGLY PLACE.
SOMETIME AFTER THAT, IN THE
1990s, I WAS INVOLVED IN
ESTABLISHING A HERITAGE CENTRE
IN HAMILTON AND WORKED MANY
YEARS THERE, I WAS BACK AND
FORTH, GOT TO KNOW THE CITY
WELL, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE, CITY
COUNCIL PEOPLE AND SO ON.
I DEVELOPED AN AFFECTION FOR THE
PLACE.
I COULD COUNT THE NUMBER OF
NIGHTS I'VE SPENT IN HAMILTON ON
ONE HAND AND HAVE FINGERS LEFT
OVER.

Steve says BUT YOUR
APPRECIATION HAS IMPROVED IN THE
MEANTIME.

Craig says YES.

Steve says GLAD TO HEAR THAT.
LET'S GO BACK A CENTURY.
WHAT KIND OF A CITY WAS IT?

Craig says IT WAS AN
INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS, DYNAMIC
CITY WHERE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT
OF WAS HAPPENING IN A SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME.
AT THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY,
THERE WERE A GROUP OF HAMILTON
BUSINESSMEN WHO WERE DETERMINED
TO BUILD THIS PLACE INTO AN EVEN
BIGGER CENTRE.
IT HAD DONE PRETTY WELL IN THE
19TH CENTURY.
LOST OUT TO TORONTO AS THE PORT
CITY, BUT IT HAD DONE EXTREMELY
WELL AS AN INDUSTRIAL CENTRE AND
THESE BUSINESSMEN HAD BEEN USED
TO COOPERATING.
THE FIRST THING THEY DID WAS
CREATE A BLAST FURNACE COMPANY
THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE BASIS
OF STELCO.
THEY KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO BE A
MECCA FOR VARIOUS THINGS.
THEY REACHED OUT TO A NUMBER OF
BIG AMERICAN CORPORATIONS AND
SAID C'MON IN.
WE HAVE TAX BENEFITS AND LAND
YOU CAN HAVE.
SO CANADIAN WESTINGHOUSE
ARRIVED, INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER
AND A HOST OF THEM.
BY THE FIRST WORLD WAR THEY WERE
BRAGGING ABOUT THESE NEW
INDUSTRIES, MORE THAN ANY OTHER
CITY IN THE COUNTRY, THEY SAID.
AND SO OVERNIGHT, AN INDUSTRY
THAT HAD ALREADY INDUSTRIALIZED
WAS QUITE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT
INDUSTRIAL LIFE WAS ABOUT HAD A
WHOLE NEW RANGE OF INDUSTRIES,
MUCH BIGGER, MUCH MORE DYNAMIC
AND TAKING OVER THE CITY,
TRANSFORMING IT IN NEW
DIRECTIONS.

Steve says IF YOU WERE AN
IMMIGRANT 100 YEARS AGO, YOU
WENT TO THIS CITY, YOU GOT
YOURSELF A GOOD-PAYING JOB AT
THESE FACTORIES AND YOU'RE ON
THE WAY?

Craig says THAT WOULD BE
A BIT OF AN EXAGGERATION.

Steve says OKAY.

Craig says YOU'VE GOT
YOURSELF A JOB PRETTY QUICKLY,
MOST LIKELY.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS IN
WHICH YOUR LIFE COULD BE
INSECURE AND UNSTABLE.

Steve says FOR EXAMPLE?

Craig says WELL, PARTLY
JOB SECURITY WAS NOTHING LIKE
WHAT WE WOULD NOW ASSUME FOR
MOST WORKERS.
I MEAN, WHAT... WELL, ACTUALLY
NOT WHAT WE NOW ASSUME, ONCE WE
USED TO ASSUME IN THE LONG
PERIOD AFTER THE SECOND WORLD
WAR WHERE PEOPLE SETTLED INTO
JOBS AND STAYED THERE.

Steve says WERE THERE UNIONS AT
THAT TIME?

Craig says MOST WERE
ORGANIZED AROUND PARTICULAR
GROUPS OF SKILLED WORKERS AND
THEY'RE BEING DRIVEN OFF TO THE
EDGES OF INDUSTRY AND EMPLOYERS
DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH
UNIONS, MORE OR LESS AFTER THE
TURN OF THE CENTURY.
THE TURNING POINT IS A HUGE
STRIKE OF THE STREET RAILWAY
COMPANY.
IT BECOMES SYMBOLIC WHERE THE
CITY AND LARGE NUMBERS OF
WORKERS NOT WORKING FOR THE
COMPANY RALLIED ON THE STREETS
BEHIND THIS COMPANY THAT IS
ACTUALLY OWNED BY THE BIG POWER
CONGLOMERATE, DOMINION POWER,
CATARACT POWER AT THAT POINT,
LATER DOMINION POWER.
AND THEY WON BUT IT WAS A...
VICTORY.
AFTER A FEW YEARS IT WAS CLEAR
EMPLOYERS WANTED NO MORE OF
THIS.

Steve says SURPRISING AS IT
SOUNDS TODAY, HAMILTON WAS A
VERY TORY TOWN BACK THEN, WASN'T
IT?

Craig says ABSOLUTELY.
IT WAS FASCINATING.
THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY WAS
EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL IN
CONSTRUCTING A SENSE OF WHAT IT
WAS... WHAT WAS GOOD ABOUT BEING
A MEMBER OF THE CONSERVATIVE
PARTY AND SHARING THEIR VISION
OF A FUTURE AND A LOT OF IT HAD
TO DO WITH PROTECTING THESE
INDUSTRIES WITH A TARIFF WALL
AND A PROMOTION OF ONTARIO HYDRO
WHICH SOME OF THE CONSERVATIVE
PARTY MEMBERS IN HAMILTON WERE
WELL INTO, SUPPORTING A VARIETY
OF WAYS IN WHICH WORKERS COULD
FEEL THEY WERE BUYING INTO THE
TORY VISION IN THOSE DAYS, AND
THEY WON ELECTION AFTER
ELECTION.

Steve says CRAIG, I THINK THE
MOST AMAZING LITTLE HISTORICAL
TIDBIT I PICKED UP FROM READING
THE BOOK WAS, THE MAN WHO KILLED
SPAIN'S PRIME MINISTER WORKED AT
STELCO.

Craig says EXACTLY.

Steve says WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

Craig says WELL, I WAS
DOING THE NEWSPAPER RESEARCH AND
THERE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE
HAMILTON HERALD IS A REPORT ON
THE GUY WHO WANDERED INTO THE
NEWSPAPER OFFICE SAYING, "I'VE
GOT THIS COPY OF KARL MARX'S
CAPITAL" AND IN THE FLY LEAF IS
THE NAME OF THIS GUY AND I
NOTICED HE JUST SHOT THE KING OF
SPAIN.
SO HE ACTUALLY WORKED WITH ME
AND LIVED IN A BOARDING HOUSE.

Steve says WHAT TIME?

Craig says 1910.
I THINK THE ASSASSINATION WAS
1911, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT IT'S AN INDICATION OF HOW SO
MANY PEOPLE CAME AND WENT,
PARTICULARLY NON-ANGLO SAXONS
WHO WERE COMING, AS HISTORIANS
NOW SAY, TO SOJOURN AND WORK FOR
PERIODS OF TIME AND THEY MOVED
ALL OVER NORTH AMERICA.
THIS PARTICULAR GUY HAD WORKED
IN CUBA AND VARIOUS PARTS OF THE
STATES AND ENDED UP IN HAMILTON
OF ALL PLACES.
AND IF THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT
APPEARED, YOU CAN IMAGINE THERE
MUST HAVE BEEN DOZENS AND DOZENS
MORE FASCINATING PEOPLE THAT
CAME FROM INTERESTING
BACKGROUNDS AND WERE GONE.

Steve says LET ME CLARIFY.
I THINK I SAID PRIME MINISTER OR
KING.
WHICH WAS IT?

Craig says THE PRIME MINISTER.

Steve says YOU CALLED THIS A
LABOUR HISTORY.
I'M WONDERING FOR A HISTORY 101
GRAD HERE, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN A HISTORY ONE READS AND
A LABOUR HISTORY?

The caption changes to "A labour history."

Craig says WHEN A LOT OF
US STARTED IN THIS GAME MANY
DECADES AGO WE WERE CONCERNED
THAT THE HISTORY OF WORKERS,
WORKING PEOPLE, WEREN'T IN THE
TEXT BOOKS, AND THAT THE STORY
OF CANADA'S PAST WAS BEING TOLD
AS THOUGH LARGE NUMBERS OF
WORKING PEOPLE HAD NEVER BEEN
THERE AND THEY WERE NOT PART OF
THAT STORY AT ALL.
WHEN WE STARTED TO WRITE, WE
WERE VERY INTERESTED... THIS IS
GOING BACK TO THE '70s AND
'80s... WE WERE VERY
INTERESTED IN PUTTING BACK INTO
HISTORY THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY
MADE A LOT OF THE HISTORY, WHO
PARTICIPATED IN IT ACTIVELY.
TO MAKE THEM MORE THAN SIMPLY
THE CHEERING CROWDS WHEN JOHN A.
MacDONALD GOT UP TO MAKE A
SPEECH.
AND GRADUALLY IT BECAME A
SLIGHTLY LARGER PROJECT THAN
PUTTING THEM BACK IN AND TO
RECOGNIZE HISTORY LOOKS
DIFFERENT WHEN YOU PUT THEM BACK
IN AND RECOGNIZE THEY ARE A
CENTRAL FOCUS OF THE STORY.
WHEN I SAT DOWN TO RIGHT THIS
ALL TOO MANY YEARS AGO, MY
INTEREST WAS IN, OKAY, LET'S PUT
TOGETHER AS MANY PARTS OF SOCIAL
AND POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC
HISTORY AND PUT THE WORKERS INTO
THAT AND SEE HOW THEY INTERACT
IN A CITY.
SO I WAS INTERESTED IN ALL... I
WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT ABOUT THE
RISE IN INDUSTRY AND UNIONS AND
SUCH LIKE, POLITICAL PARTIES,
BUT ALSO WHAT ABOUT THEIR
NEIGHBOURHOODS, WHAT ABOUT THEIR
ASSOCIATIONAL LIFE, WHAT ABOUT
THE PLACES THEY WENT TO AFTER WORK.

Steve says YOU GO FURTHER THAN THAT.
WHAT ABOUT THEIR SEX LIVES.

Craig says I TRIED TO.

Steve says NEVER MIND, YOU DID.
WHY DID YOU WANT TO PUT THAT IN THERE?

Craig says IT'S PART OF
THE LIVES OF PEOPLE.
THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL GOING ON.
IT COMES UP PARTICULARLY AROUND
ISSUES ABOUT GENDER AND THAT
WAS... OVER THE LAST THREE
DECADES OR SO, THAT'S BECOME A
REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF HOW WE
WRITE HISTORY IN CANADA, TO
RECOGNIZE THAT PEOPLE WEREN'T
JUST CANADIANS, THEY WERE
ALSO... THEY WEREN'T EVEN JUST
WORKERS BUT THEY WERE ALSO MEN
AND WOMEN, MALE AND FEMALE.
WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT WHAT
MEN THOUGHT ABOUT THEMSELVES,
FOR EXAMPLE, AND HOW THEY
STRUCTURED THEIR SENSE OF
MASCULINITIES AS WORKING MEN,
THEIR SEXUALITY BECOMES
IMPORTANT AND EQUALLY FOR
WOMEN... I FOUND THIS
FASCINATING AS I GOT MORE INTO
THE STORY OF WORKING CLASS
WOMEN, YOUNG WOMEN, WHO WOULD GO
OUT IN THE NEW DANCE HALLS THAT
WERE APPEARING AND DOING ALL
THESE ANIMAL DANCES LIKE THE
SHIMMY AND THE BUGGY HUG AND
VARIOUS CRAZY THINGS.
YOU KNOW, EXPRESSING THEIR
SEXUALITY WAS EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT TO THEM.

Steve says WHAT WAS IT... WELL,
I SHOULD ASK THIS: WHAT
PERCENTAGE OF WOMEN DO YOU THINK
WORKED, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, OUTSIDE
THE HOME BACK THEN?

Craig says THE PATTERN
WAS THAT YOU GENERALLY WORKED
ONLY UP UNTIL MARRIAGE, AND THAT
WOULD BE IN YOUR EARLY TO MID
20s, FOR MOST WOMEN, AND THE
FIGURES THAT THE CENSUS
PROVIDES, THAT'S THE ONLY REAL
INDICATION WE'VE GOT, IS THAT
MOST... WELL, SAY 16, 17,
18-YEAR-OLDS, YOU'D HAVE
TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE WOMEN OUT
WORKING, YOUNG WOMEN, AND
PROBABLY THE OTHER THIRD WOULD
NOT BE IN SCHOOL ANYMORE, THEY'D
BE HELPING THEIR MOTHERS AT
HOME.
BUT THE ONES AT HOME MIGHT WELL
AT SOME POINT HAVE GONE INTO THE
WORK FORCE AS THEY WERE NEEDED,
BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY THE DECISION
TO SEND A KID OUT INTO THE WORK
FORCE WAS BASED ON WHAT DID THE
FAMILY NEED?
ARE YOU TRYING TO PAY OFF THE
INSTALLMENT PAYMENTS ON YOUR
STOVE?
OR ARE YOU TRYING TO PAY THAT
HUGE DOCTOR BILL YOU GOT WHEN
YOUR FATHER GOT HURT IN THE MILL
LAST WEEK... LAST YEAR SOMETIME?
THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF WAYS IN
WHICH KIDS' MONEY WAS EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT.
THEY WERE THE SECONDARY WAGE
EARNERS, THE WAY WE NOW ASSUME
THAT WIVES AND MOTHERS ARE.
BUT BACK THEN, WIVES AND MOTHERS
WOULD WORK REALLY ONLY IF THE
FATHER DISAPPEARED FROM THE WAGE
EARNING WORK FORCE, WHETHER HE
WAS ILL, WHETHER HE WAS SICK OR
INJURED, WHETHER HE DISAPPEARED,
WHETHER HE DIED, ANY NUMBER OF
THOSE THINGS.
BUT MOSTLY, WHEN YOU GOT
MARRIED, YOU EXPECTED TO BE
WORKING IN A HOUSEHOLD.

Steve says YOU QUOTED SOMEBODY
AS HAVING SAID EDUCATION IS A
WONDERFUL THING BUT IT'S
CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO FILL YOUR
STOMACH.

Craig says YEAH.

Steve says A VERY DIFFERENT
APPROACH TO WHAT THE
POSSIBILITIES OF EDUCATION
REPRESENTED BACK THEN, I GUESS?

Craig says YEAH,
ABSOLUTELY.
AGAIN, I FOUND SOME OF THESE
THINGS SO SURPRISING WHEN I
DELVED INTO THEM.
I KNEW THAT SCHOOLING WAS
IMPORTANT AND I KNEW THAT PEOPLE
WERE ORGANIZING, FROM WHAT OTHER
PEOPLE HAD WRITTEN IN THE 19TH
CENTURY, PEOPLE ORGANIZED THEIR
FAMILIES TO TRY TO SEND KIDS OUT
TO WORK.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EDUCATION
CHANGES TO GET MORE KIDS INTO
SCHOOL?
AT THE END OF THE SECOND WORLD
WAR, THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT WAS
SERIOUSLY MOVING IN THAT
DIRECTION, THERE IS AN
OUTPOURING OF LETTERS IN THE
HAMILTON SPECTATOR SAYING THIS
IS OUTRAGEOUS.
WE NEED THOSE KIDS TO WORK FOR
US.
AS YOU SAID EDUCATION IS A FINE
THING BUT IT DOESN'T FILL THE
STOMACH, AS ONE WOMAN WROTE.
ANOTHER MAN SAID YOU'RE
COMMITTING RACE SUICIDE.
WE WON'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO
LIVE AND NOT HAVING OUR KIDS
MAKING ANY MONEY.
THE WELL-OFF CRAFT WORKERS
DIDN'T ARGUE THAT WAY, BUT
CERTAINLY THE... WELL, WE DON'T
KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE THAT
WROTE.
THE LETTERS TO THE SPECTATORS
WOULD BE SIGNED "A WORKING MAN."
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Steve says INTERESTING YOU TALK
ABOUT THE SPECTATOR.
THERE ARE ALSO REFERENCES TO THE
HAMILTON TIMES AND THE HAMILTON
HERALD.
HAMILTON WAS A THREE-NEWSPAPER
TOWN BACK THEN?

Craig says IT WAS.
PLUS A COUPLE OF LABOUR
NEWSPAPERS.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU INFER
FROM THE FACT THAT A CITY, HALF
A MILLION TODAY, BUT IT
CERTAINLY WASN'T THEN.

Craig says 100,000.

Steve says 100,000 PEOPLE COULD
SUPPORT THREE DAILY NEWSPAPERS
BACK THEN?

Craig says TORONTO HAD
WAY MORE THAN THAT.
IT WAS A TIME IN WHICH
NEWSPAPERS WERE IN ALMOST EVERY
CITY COULD EXPECT TO HAVE
SEVERAL IN A COMPETITIVE WAY AND
THEY WERE USUALLY IDENTIFIED
WITH POLITICAL PARTIES VERY
STRONGLY.
SO AT ELECTION TIME THEY BECAME
FLAT-OUT PROPAGANDA MACHINES FOR
WHICHEVER PARTY.
THE SPECTATOR JUST SPEWED OUT
PROPAGANDA FOR THE TORY PARTY,
AND THE TIMES WAS A
STRAIGHTFORWARD LIBERAL PARTY.
THE HERALD WAS AN INTERESTING
PAPER, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE
LIKE A
TORONTO STAR.
IT WAS A SORT OF SMALL-L LIBERAL
PAPER THAT TRIED TO MEANDER DOWN
THE LITTLE AND ACTUALLY
SUPPORTED THE INDEPENDENT LABOUR
PARTY CANDIDATE WHO GOT ELECTED
TO THE ONTARIO LEGISLATURE.

Steve says HAVING SAID WHAT
YOU'VE SAID, THESE WERE ALSO
VERY HARSH TIMES AT TIMES, AND I
NOTE THAT ONE OUT OF EVERY TEN
BABIES DIED, INFANT MORTALITY
RATES WERE HIGH, EVEN WHEN TIMES
WERE GOOD, YOU TOLD US, PEOPLE
WOULD BE UNEMPLOYED FOR 7 WEEKS
OF THE YEAR, EVEN WHEN THE
FACTORIES WERE REALLY TURNING
OUT JOBS.

Craig says YEAH.

Steve says YOU KNOW, IT SURE
SEEMS AS IF DESPITE A LOT OF THE
GOOD THINGS ABOUT BEING IN AN
AMBITIOUS CITY THAT WAS GROWING,
THIS WAS A REAL TOUGH PLACE TO
LIVE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
IS THAT RIGHT TO SAY?

Craig says I THINK IT WAS
TRUE FOR MOST CITIES IN NORTH
AMERICA AT THAT POINT.
IT WASN'T JUST HAMILTON.
BUT, YES, ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK IN TERMS OF HEALTH, WHAT
I WAS ASTONISHED TO DISCOVER WAS
HOW MANY CHILDHOOD DISEASES
REALLY DID TAKE AWAY CHILDREN.
WE HAD NO ANTIBIOTICS, AND THEY
HAD CURES FOR ALMOST NOTHING.
SO THE MOST THEY COULD HOPE FOR
WAS TO ISOLATE THEM SO THEY
DIDN'T SPREAD THEIR GERMS.
THE INSECURITY OF INCOME MEANT
THAT, WHEN IT CAME TO HEALTH
MATTERS, YOU OFTEN COULDN'T
AFFORD THE DOCTOR, YOU REALLY
DIDN'T WANT TO GO NEAR THE
HOSPITAL BECAUSE IT HAD A
REPUTATION FOR BEING JUST A
TERRIBLE PLACE, IT WAS BASICALLY
FOR THE POOR UNTIL ON INTO THE
CENTURY A LITTLE BIT.
AND, YES, IT WAS A PRETTY GRIM
TIME FOR PEOPLE.
YOU COULD SEE THE MOMENTUM THAT
WOULD CHANGE, SAY DURING THE
FIRST WORLD WAR WHEN FULL
EMPLOYMENT COMES ALONG AND
PEOPLE SUDDENLY FEEL THIS
RELIEF.
THE EMPLOYERS ARE COMPLAINING
THAT WORKERS ARE TAKING DAYS OFF
TO GO TO THE RACETRACK OR TO A
BASEBALL GAME WHENEVER THEY FEEL
LIKE IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY
WON'T GET FIRED.
THE FEAR OF POVERTY AND
STARVATION ISN'T THERE IN THE
SAME WAY.

Steve says HAVING SAID THAT,
BEFORE THAT, HOW AUTHORITARIAN
OR DICTATORIAL DO YOU THINK
MANAGEMENT WAS WHEN UNEMPLOYMENT
WAS STILL A GOING CONCERN?

Craig says EXTREMELY, IS
THE SHORT ANSWER.
I THINK MOST OF THE EVIDENCE
SUGGESTS, ESPECIALLY AS THE
PLACES GOT BIGGER AND MORE
CORPORATE, THAT THE STYLE WAS
VERY AUTHORITARIAN.
FOREMEN WERE GIVEN A TREMENDOUS
AMOUNT OF POWER, LITTLE TYRANTS
IN THEIR OWN DEPARTMENTS AS THEY
WERE OFTEN CALLED.
THEY COULD HIRE, THEY COULD
FIRE, THEY COULD PROMOTE.
THEY OFTEN EXPECTED SOME KINDS
OF REWARDS, LIKE MONEY YOU PUT
IN A CIGARETTE CASE OR, IN SOME
CASES, THE SEXUAL FAVOURS OF
YOUR WIFE.
YOU JUST LEAVE A BOTTLE ON THE
TABLE AND LEAVE THE HOUSE.
THESE ARE STORIES THAT WERE
CONFIRMED BY ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT
THEY MUST HAVE HAPPENED A FEW
TIMES ANYWAY.
SO I THINK PEOPLE LIVED IN FEAR
ON THEIR JOBS A LOT.
NOT FEAR OF GETTING INJURED
BECAUSE THEY WERE DANGEROUS,
FEAR OF BEING FIRED, FEAR THAT
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEIR
FAMILIES IF THEY DIDN'T COME
HOME WITH THAT PAYCHEQUE.

Steve says ON THE FLIPSIDE OF
THAT, HOW PERVASIVE WAS
COMMUNISM IN HAMILTON AT THIS
TIME, 75, 100 YEARS AGO.

The caption changes to "Politics of the day."

Craig says COMMUNISM
COMES ALONG AT THE END OF THE
FIRST WORLD WAR, RELATIVE TO
SOME OTHER CITIES, IT WASN'T
HUGELY INFLUENTIAL IN HAMILTON,
BUT IT DID... THE COMMUNISTS WHO
ORGANIZED IN HAMILTON WERE VERY
FOCUSED AROUND TRYING TO GET
INDUSTRIAL UNIONS ORGANIZED, AS
OPPOSED TO CRAFT UNIONS, AND TO
ORGANIZE THE UNEMPLOYED.
AND ON BOTH THOSE FRONTS IN THE
EARLY '30s, THEY MADE
SUBSTANTIAL INROADS.
IN 1932, THEY HAD ORGANIZED
ENOUGH DEMONSTRATIONS OF THE
UNEMPLOYED TO MARSHALL AN
ENORMOUS MAY DAY DEMONSTRATION
IN HAMILTON, IN ONE OF THE BIG
EAST END PARKS, WHICH WAS
BRUTALLY SUPPRESSED BY THE
POLICE AND THE FIREMEN WHO
BROUGHT OUT FIRE HOSES AND
THERE'S A SOCIOLOGIST AT
McMASTER WHO HAS INTERVIEWED
PEOPLE WHO LIVED THROUGH THE
'30s IN HAMILTON AND ASKED
PEOPLE EXPLICITLY ABOUT THAT
EVENT AND AMAZING NUMBERS OF
PEOPLE STILL REMEMBER IT AND
REMEMBER IT AS A TIME WHEN THEY
WERE DEEPLY UPSET THAT THIS HAD
HAPPENED.
IT MUST HAVE BEEN SEEN AS REALLY
QUITE BRUTAL.

Steve says THERE ARE NUMEROUS
PICTURES IN YOUR BOOK THAT
REALLY REFLECT THE TIMES QUITE
SPECTACULARLY.
BUT THERE'S ONE PICTURE YOU
DON'T HAVE, AND I WANT TO BRING
YOU AN EXAMPLE OF A CAMPAIGN
SIGN THAT SOMEONE...

Somebody hands him a stack of papers and he says THANK YOU,
TINA... HERE'S A CAMPAIGN SIGN
FOR A CANDIDATE WHO RAN IN THE
JUNE 4TH, 1945 PROVINCIAL ELECTION.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE NAME?

He shows Craig a copy of an old political poster that reads "Elect Harry Paikin in Hamilton Centre."

Craig says HARRY PAIKIN.
WAS HE A LIBERAL?

Steve says HARRY PAIKIN WAS...

Craig says HE WAS A COMMUNIST.

Steve says HE WAS A COMMUNIST.
LABOUR PROGRESSIVE PARTY.
HARRY PAIKIN ENDED UP I THINK
BEING A SCHOOL BOARD TRUSTEE FOR
30 YEARS, HE WAS CHAIR OF THE
SCHOOL BOARD FOR 10.
HE'S OBVIOUSLY A COUSIN OF MINE.
AND L.P.P., LABOUR PROGRESSIVE
PARTY, WAS A PSEUDONYM FOR BEING
A COMMUNIST THEN.

Craig says AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE SECOND WORLDWAR WHEN THE HITLER-STALIN
PACT WAS SIGNED, AND THE
COMMUNIST PARTY WAS BANNED
THEY WENT UNDERGROUND FOR AWHILE
AND THEN OF COURSE STALIN BECAME
AN ALLY AND SO THE PARTY
RESURRECTED ITSELF BY
BRINGING THIS NEW NAME, THE
LABOUR PROGRESSIVE PARTY.
FASCINATING I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

Steve says WHAT I'VE ALWAYS FOUND
INTERESTING ... I TOOK THIS OUT OF MY OFFICE, OBVIOUSLY
I HAD THIS UP IN MY OFFICE.
YOU LOOK AT HIS PLATFORM,

He points at the poster as he speaks and says
GUARANTEED JOBS FOR ALL.
WE'RE NOT QUITE THERE.
BUT VACATIONS WITH PAY, WE'RE THERE
GOOD HOMES FOR ALL, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THERE.
HEALTH INSURANCE, WE DO HAVE THAT.
EDUCATION FOR ALL, WE DO HAVE THAT.
STOP RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.

Craig says WE'RE GETTING THERE.

Steve says LOTS OF EFFORTS ON
THAT FRONT. THAT WAS
THE COMMUNIST PLATFORM IN 1945
AND IT'S FAIRLY MAINSTREAM
TODAY, YOU'D HAVE TO SAY.

Craig says FOR SURE, YEAH.

Steve says ANYWAY, THAT'S MY
LITTLE CONTRIBUTION TO THIS
INTERVIEW.

Craig says THAT'S FASCINATING.

The caption changes to "Producer: Steve Paikin, @spaikin"

Steve says I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR COMING IN TODAY AND TELLING
US ABOUT LUNCH BUCKET LIVES,
REMAKING THE WORKERS' CITY.
CRAIG HERON, GREAT PLEASURE TO
HAVE YOU BACK HERE AT TVO.

Craig says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Watch: Lunch Bucket Lives