Transcript: Ontario's New Eco-champion | Jan 11, 2016

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties,
with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, lilac shirt,
and matching tie. Behind him, a wall screen reads “The Agenda, with
Steve Paikin.”

The caption reads “Ontario’s New Eco-Champion.”

Steve says FOR THE THIRD TIME, ONTARIO'S
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY HAS
APPOINTED A NEW ENVIRONMENTAL
COMMISSIONER FOR PROVINCE.
JOINING US NOW ON HER NEW ROLE,
HER PRIORITIES FOR THE OFFICE
AND THE NEW CLIMATE TREATY,
STRUCK IN PARIS LAST DECEMBER,
WE WELCOME DIANE SACKS THE
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER OF
ONTARIO.
GOOD YOU HAVE HERE AT TVO.

Diane appears in the studio. She has grey short hair and wears
glasses with earrings. She is wearing a black blazer, pearls, a
golden brooch and a white blouse.

Behind Steve and Dianne a large screen shows plastic bottles with
red and blue tops.

Diane says THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

Steve says WE ARE NOT THE FIRST TO
INTERVIEW SO I'M GOING TO QUOTE
THE FIRST ONE THAT HAD YOU THE
LAW TIMES AFTER YOUR APPOINTMENT
LAST OCTOBER.

A quote appears under the title “Who We Are, What We Do.” It reads
“One of her priorities as she takes that office, she says, is to
simply “make it matter.” It’s extraordinary that after 22 years,
most knowledgeable, well-informed, English-speaking people in
Ontario who are concerned about environmental issues have never
heard of the environmental issues have never heard of the
environmental commissioner or the [Environmental] Bill of Rights,
she says.

Quote by Law Times, November 23, 2015.

Steve continues THEY REPORT ONE OF HER
PRIORITIES AS SHE TAKES THAT
OFFERS SHE SAYS IS TO “MAKE IT
MATTER” IT IS EXTRAORDINARY THAT
AFTER 22 YEARS MOST
KNOWLEDGEABLE WELL-INFORMED
ENGLISH SPEAKING PEOPLE IN
ONTARIO WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES HAVE NEVER
HEARD OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
COMMISSIONER OR THE
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF RIGHTS SHE
SAYS.
LET'S START THERE.
WHY NOT?

The caption reads “Diane Saxe. Environmental Commissioner of Ontario.”

Diane says THE ENVIRONMENTAL
COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE HAS
WRITTEN A LARGE NUMBER OF
EXCELLENT TECHNICAL REPORTS OVER
THE LAST 22 YEARS.
BUT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN WIDELY
READ.
SO WE HAVE HAD A TREMENDOUS TECHNICAL
CAPACITY BUT NOT AS GOOD A
COMMUNICATION CAPACITY AND THAT
IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE
CHANGING.

Steve says WELL, TUNE THAT IN, CAN I
READ YOU SOMETHING HERE FROM THE
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF RIGHTS?

A panel appears under the title “Clear As Mud.” It reads “Subsection
1 ANY PERSON TO SEEK LEAVER LEAVE
TO APPEAL FROM A DECISION ABOUT
A PROPOSAL TO WHICH SECTION 22
DOES NOT APPLY BECAUSE OF THE
APPLICATION OF SECTION 29, 30,
32 OR 33.”

Steve says SUBSECTION 1 DOES NOT PERMIT
ANY PERSON TO SEEK LEAVER LEAVE
TO APPEAL FROM A DECISION ABOUT
A PROPOSAL TO WHICH SECTION 22
DOES NOT APPLY BECAUSE OF THE
APPLICATION OF SECTION 29, 30,
32 OR 33.
NOW I'M NOT SAYING THE WHOLE EVR
IS WRITTEN THAT WAY BUT ENOUGH
WRITTEN THAT WAY MAYBE BECAUSE
IT IS NOT IN ENGLISH IT IS A BIT
INTIMIDATING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT
TO GET INVOLVED IS THAT POSSIBLE?

The caption changes to “Ontario’s New Eco-Champion. Know Your
Rights.”

Diane says THAT IS A PARAGRAPH THAT A
LAWYER CAN LOVE.
YOU KNOW I WAS AN ENVIRONMENTAL
AND ENERGY LAWYER FOR 40 YEARS
AND THAT PARAGRAPH MAKES PERFECT
SENSE TO ME.
YOU ARE RIGHT IT IS NOT
STATUTORY WORDING OF THE ACT
THAT MAKES IT USEFUL TO PEOPLE
IT IS THE BASIC ROLE THAT
CREATES.
THE GERMANY OF THE IDEA THAT
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF RIGHTS
BUILT ON IS THAT ENVIRONMENTAL
DECISIONS ARE TOO IMPORTANT TO
BE LEFT ENTIRELY TO GOVERNMENT
THAT THE PUBLIC HAS A ROLE AND
IF THE PUBLIC IS INFORMED AND
GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT
WE WILL HAVE BETTER DECISIONS.
SO THE ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF
RIGHTS CONTAINS A SIGNIFICANT
STRUCTURE TO ALLOW EXACTLY THAT.

Steve says MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT
WAS BOB RAE'S GOVERNMENT IN
1990s THAT ESTABLISHED THE
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF RIGHTS TO
BEGIN WITH AND IF IT HAS HAD IN
THE INTERVENING QUARTER OF A
CENTURY, SOME SUCCESSES. WANT TO GIVE US A HINT ON WHAT
SOME OF THOSE MIGHT BE?

Diane says THERE’S ACTUALLY BEEN QUITE A LOT OF SUCCESSES, THE MOST
RECENT IS THE
NEONICOTINOIDS THE PESTICIDES
THAT KILLS BEES AND OTHER ESSENTIAL
POLLINATORS.
THIS HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT ISSUE FOR GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE
WORLD TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE GRAIN FARMERS USE THESE
PESTICIDES AND THEY BELIEVE IT
IS IMPORTANT TO THEM TO PROTECT
THEIR CROPS. ON THE OTHER HAND WE
OUR ENTIRE FOOD SYSTEM DEPENDS
ON POLLINATORS LIKE BEES AND THEY ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE.SO IN THIS
CASE
THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER
OFFICE DID AN INTENSIVE STUDY OF
SCIENCE AND WAS ABLE TO COME OUT WITH A
NEUTRAL AUTHORITATIVE REPORT ON
THE SCIENCE DOCUMENTING SEVERE
HAZARD THAT NEONICOTINOID
USE, PRETTY EXCESSIVE USE OF THESE
POSES TO POLLINATORS AND ON
THE BASIS OF THAT REPORT THE
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT WENT AHEAD
AND CHANGED REGULATIONS AND WE
WILL NOW SEE FAR LESS NEONICOTINOIDS
USE IN ONTARIO AND THAT SHOULD HELP KEEP OUR BEES ALIVE.

Steve says THAT SOMETHING THAT OBVIOUSLY HAS FAR REACHING
IMPLICATIONS BUT MAY NOT BE
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WHO GET UP
IN THE MORNING AND THINK ABOUT
THEIR DAY NECESSARILY THINK
ABOUT.

Diane says WELL, THEY SHOULD IF THEY
CARE ABOUT THE FOOD BUT YES,
THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER
EXAMPLES.
HERE IS A MUCH HUMBLER EXAMPLE.

Steve says YES.

Diane says DRYING YOUR LAUNDRY IN MANY
SUB DIVISIONS THERE ARE
SUBDIVISIONS COVENANTS AND THE
IDEA IN 60s, 70s, and 80s WAS
THAT IT WAS LOW CLASS TO SEE
PEOPLE'S LAUNDRY AND SO
COVENANTS SAY YOU MAY NOT DRY
YOUR LAUNDRY OUTSIDE.
YOU MUST USE A FOSSIL FUEL POWERED
DRIER OR ELECTRICAL
DRIER WHY WHICH ENVIRONMENTALLY
DOESN'T MAKE A HECK OF A LOT OF
SENSE.

Steve says WHICH ENVIRONMENTALLY DOESN'T MAKE A HECK OF
A LOT OF SENSE

Diane says DOESN'T MAKE A HECK OF
A LOT OF SENSE
WHEN WE HAVE THE
SUN AND THE WIND FOR FREE.
SO ACTUALLY A COUPLE OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO GOT
TOGETHER, PUT IN A REQUEST FOR
REVIEW AND SAID WE SHOULD ALLOW
PEOPLE TO DRY THEIR LAUNDRY THE
WAY HUMANS HAVE DRIED LAUNDRY
FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND THE
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT LISTENED AND
ADOPTED REGULATION ACCORDINGLY
AND IN ANY SUBDIVISION IN
ONTARIO YOU CAN PUT YOUR LAUNDRY
OUTSIDE.

Steve says AND THATS THANKS TO

Diane says THAT’S THANKS TO ENVIRONMENTAL BILL
OF RIGHTS.

Steve says OKAY IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE
PROFILE, YOUR OFFICE DOESN'T
HAVE THE PROFILE YOU THINK IT
SHOULD IN ORDER FOR IT TO AFFECT
AS MUCH CHANGE IN SOCIETY YOU
WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

Diane says YET.

Steve says YET. WHAT IS THE PLAN TO CHANGE
THAT?

Diane says ONE OF THE THINGS IS TO TALK
TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
OUR FIRST STEP IS TO MAKE SURE
THAT THE BILL WORKS AS WELL AS
WE CAN MAKE IT SO WE HAVE BEEN
MEETING WITH DEPUTY MINISTERS OF
THE DIFFERENT MINISTRIES THAT WE
WORK WITH TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY
COMPLY BETTER WITH THE
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF RIGHTS AND
WE ARE ALREADY SEEING
SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS AND WE
EXPECT TO HAVE FORMAL COMMITMENT
LETTERS FROM THE MINISTRIES ON
OUR WEBSITE IN FEBRUARY.
ONCE AND BY THEN WE DO EXPECT TO
SEE CONTINUED IMPROVEMENTS IN
THEIR COMPLIANCE WITH THE BILL.
ONCE THE GOVERNMENT IS COMPLYING
THEN WE CAN GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC
AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO USE IT
BETTER, GOING TO BE OFFERING
MUCH MORE TRAINING AND WE ARE
GOING TO BE GIVING MORE PROFILE
TO THE PEOPLE WHO COME IN AND
BRING US GOOD APPLICATIONS.

Steve says IT IS NOT JUST TRAINING.
IT IS MONEY, TOO.
A LOT OF PEOPLE I SUSPECT FEAR,
IT'S A HUGE EXPENSIVE BUREAUCRATIC
LEGAL PROCESS TO TRY TO VIEWS
THE EVRS THAT IN FACT THE CASE?

Diane says NO, IT DOESN'T COST ANYTHING AT
ALL.
THIS IS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY
FOR CITIZENS TO DO.
I THINK TRAINING WILL HELP
PEOPLE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY
NEED TO DO.
WE WILL BE PROVIDING A CHECKLIST
AND PROVIDING ENHANCED TRAINING.
A LOT OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL
GROUPS KNOW HOW TO PUT TOGETHER
A GOOD APPLICATION.
AND WE THINK THAT ONCE PEOPLE
SEE MORE OF THESE SUCCESSES
COMING OUT THEY WILL BE
ENCOURAGED TO TRY THEIR OWN.

Steve says OKAY LETS TALK ABOUT WHAT I SUSPECT IS
THE MOST IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL
STORY OF THE LAST MANY YEARS, WHICH HAPPENED TOWARDS THE END OF LAST
YEAR. WHICH WAS THE
AGREEMENT ARRIVED AT BY 190 PLUS
COUNTRIES IN PAIRS YOU WERE
THERE WEREN'T YOU?

Diane says I WAS.

Steve says WHAT WAS THE HIGHLIGHT FOR
YOU OF THAT CONFERENCE?

Diane says WELL THE HIGHLIGHT WAS REACHING THE
AGREEMENT.
IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY
ACHIEVEMENT.
I THINK VERY FEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND FIRST OF
ALL HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS TO DO
THIS.
HOW MANY STARS HAD TO ALIGN AT
ONCE TO MAKE THIS AGREEMENT
POSSIBLE AND HOW MUCH BETTER
THE AGREEMENT THAT THEY FINALLY
REACHED WAS AND ANYTHING WE SAW
IN THE PAINSTAKING PROCESS OF
NEGOTIATION.
SO IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE
ACHIEVEMENT.
ITS NOT TO SAY IT IS ENOUGH, NOT
ENOUGH BY ITSELF WE KNOW THAT
BUT IN TERMS OF A REAL TIPPING
POINT FOR BOTH NATIONAL
GOVERNMENTS AND FROM SUB
NATIONALS AND NON-STATE ACTIVES
AROUND THE WORLD IT WAS
ASTONISHING.

The caption changes to “Ontario’s New Eco-Champion. Enacting Paris.”

Steve says THERE WERE SOME NEAT IDEAS
THAT CAME OUT OF THE CONFERENCE, FOR EXAMPLE
BRINGING LIGHTING TO VARIOUS
PARTS OF AFRICA WHICH CURRENTLY
CONTINUE DO IT.
TELL US ABOUT THAT IDEA, YOU SAW
PRESENTATION ABOUT THAT?

Diane says I SAW A FABULOUS PRESENTATION
FROM A YOUNG MAN WHO HAD LOOKED
AT WHAT COULD HE DO TO REALLY
HELP PEOPLE IN DESTITUTE AREAS
OF THE WORLD BECOME PART OF A
MODERN ECONOMY.
AND WHAT HE REALIZED WAS THAT IN
MANY OF THESE VILLAGES WHERE
THEY DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY AND
THEY DON'T HAVE ANY WAY TO
CHARGE MOBILE PHONES, USE RADIOS
AND HAVE LIGHT IN THE HOME AT
NIGHT WHICH MEANS THAT CHILDREN
CAN NOT STUDY FOR SCHOOL AND
KEROSENE IS IN THE HOUSE WHICH IS MAKING
PEOPLE SICK FROM THE FUMES,
THERE ARE ELECTRIC LIGHTS
AVAILABLE, YOU CAN BUY SOLAR
PACKAGES BUT VERY, VERY POOR
PEOPLE CAN NOT AFFORD THEM.
SO HE PUT TOGETHER A FINANCIAL
INNOVATION AND TECHNICAL
INNOVATION AND HE HAS THESE LITTLE PACKAGES
ABOUT THAT BIG.
THE SIZE OF THE LARGE BOOK AND
THEY HAVE FIRST OF ALL A SOLAR
PANEL, THE SIZE OF A BOOK.
AND AN LED LIGHT, RADIO AND CELL
PHONE CHARGING PORT AND HE
LEASES THESE KITS OUT TO VERY
POOR WOMEN FOR JUST A FEW CENTS
A DAY AND THE WOMEN PAY FOR THE
RENTAL OVER THEIR CELL PHONES BY
RENTING CELL PHONE CHARGING TO
THEIR NEIGHBOUR WHOSE USED TO
WALK AN HOUR AWAY TO CHARGE
THEIR PHONES.
AT THE END OF THE YEAR THE WOMEN
HAVE PAID FOR THE DEVICE AND
THEY THEN HAVE IT WHICH THEY CAN
USE BASICALLY AS A SMALL
BUSINESS AND THEY HAVE LIGHT IN
THE HOUSE, THE AIR QUALITY IN THE HOUSE IS CLEANER THE KIDS DON'T
GET AS
SICK, THEY CAN STUDY AND STAY IN
SCHOOL, THEY HAVE RADIOS TO FIND OUT NEWS
AND WEATHER FORECAST AND THEY’VE GOT MOBILE
PHONES THAT THEY CAN KEEP CHARGE AND FIND
OUT WHAT THE MARKET PRICES ARE
SO THEY DON'T GET SCOOPED BY THE
MIDDLEMAN.

Steve says THERE IS NO PIE IN THE SKY ITS ACTUALLY
WORKING.

Diane says IT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

Steve says HOW ABOUT WAS THERE ANOTHER ONE ABOUT MONEY
MANAGERS?

Diane says WELL ONE OF THE BIG EXCITEMENTS OF
THE CONFERENCE IN ADDITION TO
WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN FORMAL
NEGOTIATIONS WITH HUNDREDS OF
OTHER INITIATIVES THAT WERE BROUGHT
FORWARD USING THE PARIS CONFERENCE
WAS PLATFORM TO SAY WE WILL DO
SOMETHING BETTER AND ONE OF THE
MOST EXCITING WAS PORTFOLIO
DECARBONISATION INITIATIVE WHICH
IS THE RECOGNITION BY BIG MONEY
MANAGERS AROUND THE WORLD THAT
IN IGNORING THE RISK OF CARBON
IS NOW IMPERMISSIBLE BECAUSE
THERE ARE PHYSICAL RISKS, THERE
ARE LIABILITY RISKS, THERE ARE
STRANDED ASSET RISKS AND
REPUTATIONAL RISKS WHICH ARE NOW
A NECESSARY PART OF FIDUCIARY
DUTY OF ANY MONEY MANAGER IN THE
WORLD.

Steve says WHAT HAPPENED IN PARIS THAT
LEFT YOU DISAPPOINTED?

Diane says WELL, THE MOST FRIGHTENING
THING IN PARIS WAS LEARNING
ABOUT THE SCIENCE.
I THOUGHT THAT I WAS PRETTY UP TO DATE WITH
HOW BAD THINGS ARE AND HOW FAST
THEY ARE MOVING AND IN FACT IT
IS MUCH WORSE THAN I THOUGHT AND
ONE OF THE BIGGEST FACTORS IS
JUST THAT IN THIS ENTIRE PROCESS
OF PLANNING AHEAD OF HOW BAD IT
IS GOING TO BE, WE HAVE LEFT OUT
ONE OF THE BIGGEST SOURCES OF
CARBON IN THE WORLD, WHICH IS
MELTING OF THE PERMAFROST.
SO THE CHALLENGES EVER BIGGER
THAN WE KNEW, THE URGENCY IS GREATER
AND IT IS FABULOUS TO SEE PEOPLE
AROUND THE WORLD FINALLY RECOGNIZING WE
NEED TO DO SOMETHING AND GETTING
ON IT.
IT PROBABLY HELPED THAT RIGHT IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE CONFERENCE,
5 BILLION WORTH OF FLOODS AROUND
THE WORLD, 4 BILLION ALONE IN INDIA.
HUGE FLOOD IF IN NORTHERN
ENGLAND.

Steve says AND HELP BECAUSE IT SEIZED
PEOPLE'S ATTENTION AT THE
CONFERENCE.

Diane says IT SEIZED PEOPLE’S ATTENTION, INDIA WAS ONE OF THE BIG
PLAYERS, INDIA WAS WIDELY
RECOGNIZED AS ONE OF OH
OBSTACLES TO AGREEMENT AND INDIA
SUFFERED A 4 BILLION FLOOD
DURING THE CONFERENCE.
SO PEOPLE ALL AROUND THE WORLD ARE
STARTING TO RECOGNIZE, IN 1992
WHEN I WENT TO RIO CONFERENCE WE
THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A
PROBLEM THAT WOULD MATTER TO OUR
GRANDCHILDREN, WHICH I DIDN'T
HAVE AT THE TIME.
IN 2015, WE REALIZED THAT IT IS
A PROBLEM FOR US ALL RIGHT NOW.
AND MOVING FAST.

Steve says NO TIME TO WASTE?

Diane says NO TIME TO WASTE.

The caption changes to “Ontario’s New Eco-Champion. Forging Ahead.”

Steve says MY HUNCH IS IF YOU ASK PEOPLE
ACROSS THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
ABOUT THE BLUE JAYS, EVEN PEOPLE
WHO ARE NOT BASEBALL FANS WOULD
KNOW SOMETHING AND A LOT OF
PEOPLE WOULD KNOW A LOT ABOUT
THE BLUE JAYS.
MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS DO YOU THINK
THERE IS GENERAL KNOWLEDGE,
GENERAL INTEREST, GENERAL
APPRECIATION OF WHERE WE ARE
ENVIRONMENTALLY RIGHT NOW AS IT
RELATES TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

Diane says I'M SO GLAD YOU DID NOT ASK
ME ABOUT BLUE JAYS.

Steve says I THINK EVEN YOU WOULD HAVE GOT SOMETHING
RIGHT IF I HAD ASKED YOU A QUESTION ABOUT IT. WHO WAS THE MVP IN THE
AMERICAN LEAGUE LAST YEAR.

Diane says YOU'RE KIDDING.

Steve says I’M NOT KIDDING. HE PLAYED FOR BLUE JAYS YOU
GOTTA KNOW THAT.

Diane says I'M SORRY.

Steve says COMMISSIONER WE GOT TO TALK
WHO IS IT TINA?

Tina says JOSH DONALDSON.

Steve says THERE YOU GO JOSH DONALDSON. SHE IS NOT A MASSIVE
BASEBALL
FAN.

Tina says I AM.

Steve says WELL SHE IS NOW.

Diane says I KNOW THAT JOHNNY BAUER
PLAYED FOR THE LEAFS ONCE.

Steve says OKAY WE ARE GOING BACK A BIT.

Diane says THAT IS MY SPORTS KNOWLEDGE.
IN TERMS OF AWARENESS AROUND THE
PROVINCE, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT.
PEOPLE HERE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW
SERIOUS IT IS AND ONE OF THE
REASONS WE DON'T, WE ARE VERY
RELATIVELY UNTOUCHED.
WE ARE A LONG WAY FROM THE OCEAN.
OUR HOMES IN SOUTHERN ONTARIO AT LEAST
WILL NOT FLOOD WHEN THE SEAS RISE, AS THE SEAS RISE.
WE HAVE NOT HAD ANYTHING HERE
YET AS SERIOUS AS THE ICE STORM.

Steve says NO, BUT WE HAD SOME DAYS IN
THE MIDDLE OF DECEMBER WHERE IT
WAS 13 OUTSIDE AND ONTARIO'S
CAPITAL CITY.

Diane says AND WE ALREADY LOST OUR APPLE CROP
ONCE AND WE WILL PROBABLY LOSE
OTHER CROPS.
I MEAN, WE ARE SEEING MAJOR
CHANGES.
LOTS OF PEOPLE WILL LOSE MONEY
BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF SNOW.
HOW MANY TREES WILL BE LEFT
BECAUSE WHEN THE FROST COMES
TREES ARE DORMANT AND THERE IS
NO SNOW COVER.
BUT IN TERMS OF THE KIND OF DISASTER
WHERE THE CITY IS FLOODED AS IN
NEW YORK OR ICE STORM OR THE
THE KIND OF DRAUGHT THAT HAPPENED IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT
REALLY FOCUSED PEOPLE'S MINDS WE
HOPEFULLY WILL BE ABLE TO LEARN WITHOUT
SUFFERING THAT MUCH.

Steve says SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS. THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT IN ITS
WISDOM HAS DECIDED THAT IT WANTS
TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A CAP AND
TRADE SYSTEM.

Diane says CAP AND TRADE.

Steve says RIGHT, IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH
OUR PIECE OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE
PUZZLE.

Diane says YES.

Steve says WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON THAT
APPROACH.

Diane says HALLELUJAH!
IT IS REALLY ABOUT TIME.
AGAIN THE ENTIRE WORLD
RECOGNIZES THAT WE NEED TO PUT A
PRICE ON CARBON.
IF WE WANT TO GIVE A FINANCIAL
INCENTIVE TO PEOPLE TO COUNT TO
REDUCE THE POLLUTION THAT IT
CREATES GREENHOUSE GAS POLLUTION
THAT IT CREATES WE PUT A PRICE
ON IT.IF IT’S FREE. IF
DOING THE WRONG THING IS FREE,
DOING RIGHT THING IS EXPENSIVE
PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO DO
WRONG THING.

Steve says THE CRITICISM I HAVE HEARD THOUGH IS WHEN YOU GO TO CAP AND TRADE
SYSTEM AS OPPOSED TO SAY SIMPLE CARBON
TAX ON CARBON IN SOCIETY THAT YOU
OPEN THE DOOR FOR A LOT OF
SHENANIGANS BY LOBBYISTS TO
NEGOTIATE WITH GOVERNMENT AND
GET ALL SORTS OF EXEMPTIONS FOR
THEIR SECTOR, ARE YOU WORRIED
ABOUT THAT?

Diane says WELL THE SAME THING CAN HAPPEN
WITH THE CARBON TAX.
BOTH METHODS CAN WORK.
BRITISH COLUMBIA HAS CERTAINLY
PROVED THAT CARBON TAX CAN WORK
AND WORK WELL.
ON THE OTHER HAND THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT
POTENTIAL ADVANTAGES TO A CARBON
MARKET AND WE’RE ABOUT TO HAVE BETWEEN
CALIFORNIA, QUEBEC, ONTARIO AND
NOW MANITOBA IS LOOKING AT
JOINING, A SIGNIFICANT TRADING
BLOCK THAT WILL ALLOW US TO
BUILD UP SOME EXPERTISE AND GET
BETTER ENVIRONMENTAL OUTCOMES AT
LOWER COST IS.

Steve says YOU ALLOWED TO SAY WHETHER
YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THIS
LIBERAL GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO
NEGOTIATE A GOOD CLEAN CAP AND
TRADE SYSTEMMEE

Diane says WELL I WILL BE WATCHING
TO SEE.

A quote appears on the screen under the title “Tools of Trade.” It
reads, “It seems to me that I have a flashlight, a can opener, and
a megaphone and what we’re working on right now is what are the most
important things we can do with those tools.”

Quote by Dianne Saxe as quoted in the Law Times, November 23,
2015.

Steve says OKAY LETDS FINISH UP ON THIS, HERES ANOTHER
QUOTE YOU GAVE TO LAW TIMES BACK IN
NOVEMBER OF 2015.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT I HAVE A
FLASH LIGHT, A CAN OPENER AND A
MEGA PHONE.
AND WHAT WE ARE WORKING ON RIGHT
NOW IS WHAT ARE THE MOST
IMPORTANT THINGS WE CAN DO WITH
THOSE TOOLS.
LETS GO THROUGH THEM.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO WITH A
FLASHRIGHT?

Diane says THE POINT OF FLASHLIGHT IS TO
DIRECT PUBLIC ATTENTION TO
CRITICAL ISSUES SUCH AS FOSSIL
FUEL SUBSIDIES, WHICH IS ONE OF
THE BIG OBSTACLES TO MAKING A
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.
BUT I ALSO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
CONVENE CONVERSATIONS TO DRAW
PEOPLE TOGETHER AND FOR EXAMPLE
ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID LAST
YEAR WAS TO CONVENE PEOPLE FROM
AROUND ONTARIO ECONOMY ABOUT THE
LACK OF ACCESS TO GOOD CLIMATE
DATA SO THAT PEOPLE CAN PLAN
GOING FORWARD.
NO ONE HAD DONE THAT BEFORE US.

Steve says HOW ABOUT THE CAN OPENER WHAT’S THAT FOR?

Diane says WAY TO GET INFORMATION.

Steve says FROM WHOM?

Diane says WELL, FROM GOVERNMENT.
THAT IS OUR POWER.

Steve says YOU CAN FORCE THEM TO, CAN’T YOU.

Diane says WE CAN SUBPOENA THEM.

Steve says YOU HAVE SUBPOENA POWERS TO
BRING PREMIERS, MINISTERS,
DEPUTY MINISTERS FORWARD.

Diane says IT NOT LIMITED.

Steve says IT IS NOT LIMITED OKAY. AND LASTLY THE MEGA
PHONE.
WHAT IS THAT FOR?

Diane says WELL THE MEGA PHONE IS TO COMMUNICATE.
ONCE WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THE
SCIENCE AND FACTS ON SOMETHING,
HOW DO WE GET THAT OUT TO PUBLIC
AND TO THE DECISION MAKERS AND
WE WILL BE HOPEFULLY TALKING TO
PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

Steve says I HAVE TO TELL YOUR PREDECESSOR GORD
MILLER WAS A HELL OF A GOOD
COMMUNICATOR.
THE GUY COULD DO AN INTERVIEW.
WHAT CAN YOU DO THAT HE HASN'T
ALREADY DONE THAT YOU THINK CAN
IMPROVE THE PROFILE OF YOUR
ORGANIZATION?

Diane says I GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO FIND
OUT.

[Steve laughs]

Steve says OKAY.
WE'LL KEEP WATCHING COMMISIONER DIANE SACKS
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER OF
ONTARIO GOOD OF YOU TO JOIN US
AT TVO TONIGHT. THANKS A LOT.

Diane says THANK YOU.

Watch: Ontario's New Eco-champion