Transcript: The Future of Food | Oct 26, 2015

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped lilac tie. Behind him, a wall screen reads “The Agenda, with Steve Paikin.”

Steve says SURE, BUTTER TARTS,
POUTINE AND NANAIMO BARS MIGHT
BE IDENTIFIABLE CANADIAN
DELICACIES, BUT WHAT OF OUR
MAPLE SYRUP?
BOUNTIFUL ONTARIO BLUEBERRIES?
OR FAMOUS PEI POTATOES?
ITEMS GROWN HERE AND KNOWN
WORLDWIDE.
ITEMS AS TIED TO OUR APPETITES
AS THEY ARE TO OUR IDENTITIES.
JOINING US NOW FOR MORE:
DIANE PACOM, SOCIOLOGIST AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA;

Diane is in her late forties, with short brown hair. She’s wearing glasses, a gray coat, and a brown patterned scarf.

Steve continues SARAH ELTON, JOURNALIST AND
AUTHOR OF “CONSUMED: FOOD FOR A
FINITE PLANET”;

Sarah is in her thirties, with long straight brown hair. She’s wearing a black blazer and a silver necklace.

Steve continues AND MARK HOLMES, PROFESSOR AND
COORDINATOR AT THE CENTRE FOR
HOSPITALITY AND CULINARY ARTS'
CHEF SCHOOL AT GEORGE BROWN.

Mark is in his early forties, shaven-headed and with a stubble. He’s wearing a black suit, blue shirt, and striped blue tie.

Steve continues IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU THREE HERE
AT TVO, AND IF I MAY SAY, GOO
DAY, MADAME.
USUALLY WE HAVE YOU ON THE LINE.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.
IS IT IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUTFOOD?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Diane Pacom. University of Ottawa."
Then, it changes to “Gather around the table.”

Diane says OF COURSE.
FOOD IS ONE OF THE MAJOR
DIMENSIONS OF OUR REALITY, AS
BIOLOGICAL AND SOCIOLOGICAL
BEINGS.
WE ARE CONSTANTLY DISCUSSING
FOOD -- WE DISCUSS ABOUT OUR
IDENTITY WHEN WE'RE DISCUSSING
FOOD, AND IN TODAY'S SOCIETY,
THE DISCOURSE ON FOOD IS A
DIFFERENT TYPE OF DISCOURSE,
BECAUSE BEFORE IT WAS MOSTLY
RELATED TO RELIGIOUS REASONS.
THERE WAS A VERY BIG LINK
BETWEEN RELIGIOUS DISCOURSE AND
FOOD.
TODAY IT'S THE CONSUMER IDEOLOGY
WHICH IS REALLY LEADING OUR
DISCOURSE ON FOOD.

Steve says THE CONSUMER
IDEOLOGY?

Diane says YES, DEFINITELY.
I BELIEVE WE ARE DEFINED BY
CONSUMERISM AND WE CONSUME FOOD
IN A WAY WHICH IS QUITE
DIFFERENT THAN ALL THE DIFFERENT
HISTORICAL MOMENTS BEFORE US.
SO WE ARE ALSO IN A MOMENT OF
HISTORY WHICH WE ARE VERY
WORRIED ABOUT FOOD, WHICH
DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IN MANY WAYS,
BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN A MOMENT
OF HISTORY WHERE THERE IS A LACK
OF FOOD.
THE OPPOSITE.
THERE ARE HUGE AMOUNTS OF FOOD
AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME TO ALL OF
US.
BUT IT IS A PREOCCUPATION WITH
FOOD WHICH IS RELATED TO THE
CRISIS THAT WE ARE GOING
THROUGH, INDIVIDUAL AND
COLLECTIVE CRISES.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP ON
THAT WITH SARAH.
YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT P.E.I.
POTATOES.
IF YOU SAY TO LOTS OF PEOPLE IN
CANADA, P.E.I., THAT'S HOW THEY
WILL FILL IN THE BLANK.
TALK TO US ABOUT FOOD AND PLACE,
THAT RELATIONSHIP?

The caption changes to "Sarah Elton. Author ‘Consumed: Food for a finite planet."

Sarah says FOOD CONNECTS
US TO A PLACE.
FOR MOST OF HUMAN HISTORY, OUR
FOOD, OUR CUISINE, HAS BEEN
ABOUT WHERE WE LIVE, ABOUT THE
GEOGRAPHY, THE CLIMATE, AND OUR
FOOD CULTURE HAS ARISEN OUT OF
THESE FACTORS.
I GUESS OVER THE LAST 50-PLUS
YEARS, WE'VE SEEN THIS MASSIVE
SHIFT TOWARD THIS CONSUMERISM,
AND I DON'T KNOW, WOULD PEOPLE
ASSOCIATE P.E.I. POTATOES,
P.E.I. WITH POTATOES ANYMORE?
YOU GO TO THE SUPERMARKET AND
YOU GET POTATOES FROM ALL SORTS
OF -- A LOT FROM THE UNITED
STATES, AS WELL AS FROM ONTARIO,
P.E.I.
WE'VE LOST THIS CONNECTION TO
PLACE.
AND THAT'S HAPPENED IN MY
LIFETIME.

A picture of Sarah’s book appears briefly on screen. The cover is white, with a picture of a soft-boiled egg containing the American continent.

Sarah continues WHEN I WAS A CHILD, THERE WERE
MORE SEASONS THAN THERE ARE NOW.
YOU'D HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOUR
STRAWBERRIES UNTIL THEY WERE IN
SEASON.
YOU'D HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOUR
SWEET CORN CAME IN AUGUST.
NOW YOU CAN GO TO THE
SUPERMARKET AND GET SWEET CORN
JUST ABOUT ANY TIME OF THE YEAR.
A BIG SHIFT.

Steve says CAN, MARK, WE MAKE
ANY GENERAL STATEMENTS ABOUT
WHAT CANADIANS EAT?

The caption changes to "Mark Holmes. George Brown College."

Mark says WELL,
CANADIANS EAT A LOT OF DIFFERENT
FOODS, AND SO TRYING TO EVEN
NARROW DOWN A CANADIAN DIET HAS
BECOME A HUGE ISSUE AND ONE
THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT A LOT
IN LITERATURE.
AUTHORS SUCH AS HIRSCH JACOBS
WAS TRYING TO DEFINE A CANADIAN
CUISINE AND HE ACTUALLY CAME TO
THE CONCLUSION WE CAN LOOK AT
COMMON FOODS BUT THE FACT THAT
CANADA IS BECOMING MORE OF AN
INTERNATIONAL AREA FOR FOOD, WE
SEE ALL DIFFERENT INTERNATIONAL
DISHES.
SO NARROWING DOWN CANADA TO ONE
FOOD, ONE DISH, ONE SET IDEAL
FOR FOOD IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE.

Steve says CAN YOU COME TO THE
CONCLUSION THAT A LOT OF WHAT WE
EAT IS JUNK?
WOULD YOU SAY THAT?

Mark says I WOULD SAY A
LOT OF WHAT WE EAT IS JUNK, FAT,
SUGAR, AND PROCESSED FOODS, IN
PART BECAUSE THOSE COST LESS
THAN FRESH WHOLESOME LEAN MEATS,
NUTRITIOUS FOODS, THAT IMPACTS
WHAT WE EAT IN CANADA.

Steve says SARAH, IS THE
AVERAGE CANADIAN'S DIET, QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, ENVIRONMENTALLY
FRIENDLY?

The caption changes to "Our new diet?"

Sarah says NO.
NO.
AND WE ARE EATING A LOT OF THESE
PROCESSED FOODS.
WE ARE EATING FOOD THAT -- WELL,
IF WE THINK ABOUT IT, IT CAUSES
A LOT OF -- IT WILL HAVE HUGE
IMPLICATIONS FOR CLIMATE CHANGE,
SPECIFICALLY MEAT-RICH DIETS.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL COSTS OF A
MEAT-RICH DIET ARE HIGH.
BUT IT'S NOT JUST -- IT'S NOT
JUST MEATS.
WE GENERALLY ARE NOT THINKING OF
SUSTAINABILITY WHEN WE GO TO THE
SUPERMARKET, AND MY CONCERN IS
TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT, WELL, WHAT
MAKES FOR A SUSTAINABLE DIET?
AND THAT COMES A LOT BACK TO
AGRICULTURE.

The caption changes to "Ethics on the plate."

Steve says YOU KNOW, WHEN I ASK
THAT QUESTION, I DON'T MEAN WHAT
THE FOOD IS DOING TO OUR BODY, I
MEAN WHAT IT IS DOING TO OUR
ENVIRONMENT.
AND YOU MAINTAIN WE ARE NOT
EATING AN ENVIRONMENTALLY
SENSIBLE DIET AS WELL?

Sarah says NO, CORRECT.
WE ARE NOT EATING AN
ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSIBLE DIET.
IDEALLY, WE SHOULD BE, AND WHAT
I WRITE ABOUT ARE THE FOOD
MOVEMENTS AROUND THE WORLD THAT
ARE CREATING MORE SUSTAINABLE
FOOD SYSTEMS, BUT WHAT WOULD BE
BETTER FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT IF WE
BOUGHT OUR FOOD FROM FARMS WHERE
THE FARMERS ARE CARING FOR THEIR
NUTRIENTS, SO THERE ISN'T
FERTILIZER RUNOFF, THEY MAKE
SURE THEY HAVE POLLINATOR
HABITAT, THE ANIMALS THEY DO
RAISE ARE TREATED ETHICALLY AND
THEIR MANURE IS INCORPORATED
INTO THE FARM.
IT SOUNDS VERY IDEAL AND YET IT
IS POSSIBLE AND IT IS HAPPENING,
IT IS JUST NOT THE MAINSTREAM.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP
WITH DIANE ON THIS.
WE KNOW THAT YOUR STUDENTS
PROBABLY AREN'T FOLLOWING
PARTISAN POLITICS AS CAREFULLY
AS YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO OR AS
MUCH OF THE -- YOU KNOW, MAYBE
AS THEIR PARENTS WOULD LIKE THEM TO.
HAVING SAID THAT, DO THEY CARE
ABOUT FOOD POLITICS MORE THAN
THEY DO PARTISAN POLITICS?

Diane says SOME OF THEM.
I BELIEVE THAT A LARGE
PERCENTAGE OF -- SPECIFICALLY
WITH YOUNG PEOPLE, IS TO FIGHT
CAUSES THAT ARE VERY CLOSE TO
THEMSELVES.
AND THEY DO -- THEY HAVE
DEVELOPED STRATEGIES IN ORDER TO
COUNTERACT THIS EXTREMELY
PATHOLOGICAL PATH WE HAVE WITH
FOOD RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS THE
CONSUMER SOCIETY.
WE EAT ACCORDING TO TRENDS.
WE DON'T EAT THINGS THAT WE NEED
TO EAT OR LIKE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO
WEEK.

Steve says WHAT ARE THE THINGS
AROUND FOOD THAT THEY LIKE?

Diane says THEY HAVE
BOYCOTTED PLACES THAT THEY
CONSIDER THAT THEY ARE
IDEOLOGICALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
I HAVE SEEN SOME OF MY STUDENTS
PICKETING IN FRONT OF STARBUCKS,
WHICH I FREQUENT RELIGIOUSLY IN
SOME WAYS, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T
CORRESPOND WITH THE ETHICAL
PRODUCTION OF COFFEE AND IT IS
EXPENSIVE AND IT IS PART OF THE
CAPITALIST ESTABLISHMENT.
ALSO WE HAVE PRACTICES WHICH IS
VERY INTERESTING LIKE RECYCLING
PRODUCTS WHICH HAVE BEEN THROWN
AWAY.
THERE'S THIS MOVEMENT CALLED
DUMPSTER DIVING WHICH LITERALLY
THEY GO AND RECOVER FOOD THAT
HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, REJECTED BY
THE SYSTEM AND THEY DO PREPARE
FOOD FOR HOMELESS PEOPLE, EVEN
FOR STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY
WHO DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO PAY
FOR BREAKFAST, SO ON AND SO
FORTH.
SO THERE IS THIS VERY
INTERESTING AND IN MANY WAYS
PARADOXICAL POLITICS WHICH THE
STUDENTS THEY SAY WE HAVE TO
PROTECT OUR BUDDY FROM CONSUMER
SOCIETY, AND THEREFORE WE HAVE
TO COUNTERACT THE SYSTEM WHICH
IS BASED ON WASTE, YOU KNOW,
LIKE WE'RE ALWAYS WASTING
THINGS.
SO LET'S GET BACK, YOU KNOW, TO
A WHOLESOME WAY OF RELATING TO
FOOD.
IT'S QUITE MARGINAL, BUT I
BELIEVE THIS IS VERY SIGNIFICANT
WHEN IT COMES TO TODAY'S
MILITANCY.

Steve says MARK, LET ME FOLLOW
UP WITH YOU.
IN TERMS OF THE GENERAL
POPULATION, HOW AWARE, HOW MUCH
DO THE GENERAL PUBLIC CARE ABOUT
THE KIND OF FOOD POLITICS THAT
DIANE JUST DESCRIBED?

Mark says SOME OF THE
POPULATION CARE.
IF YOU LOOK AT FARMERS MARKETS,
THEY'RE STARTING TO POP UP MORE
AND MORE AROUND THE COUNTRY, IN
PART BECAUSE THERE'S A DEMAND
FOR THEM.
WHEN YOU TALK TO FARMERS MARKET
PATRONS AND ASK THEM WHY ARE YOU
COMING HERE, THE RESPONSES ARE
HEALTH, THEY WANT A HEALTHIER
DIET, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHERE
THEIR FOOD COMES FROM, AND THEY
WANT TO MEET THE FARMER,
SURPRISINGLY.
THEY WANT THAT INTERACTION, FIND
OUT WHO THEY ARE, WHY ARE THEY
DOING THIS, HOW DO THEY PROCESS
THEIR FOOD, HOW DO THEY CARE
ABOUT THEIR FOOD, BECAUSE PEOPLE
ARE BECOMING MORE WARY OF WHAT
THEY'RE EATING, WHAT THEY PUT IN
THEIR BODIES.

Steve says SO THAT'S A DIET
THING AS OPPOSED TO A POLITICAL
THING; IS THAT RIGHT?

Mark says THAT'S A DIET
THING MORE THAN A POLITICAL
THING.
BUT I THINK YOU PAY WITH YOUR
DOLLAR, SO WHEN YOU WALK IN THE
GROCERY STORE, YOU HAVE A CHOICE
OF GOING WITH SOMETHING THAT'S
LOCAL OR ORGANIC VERSUS
SOMETHING THAT SAYS MADE IN THE
U.S.A.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP ON
THAT.
LOCAL, ORGANIC, WE HEAR THESE
TERMS WHICH WE ARE TOLD ARE
BETTER FOR US, BOTH POLITICALLY
AND IN TERMS OF OUR OWN HEALTH.
IS IT TRUE?
IS IT REALLY TRUE?

Mark says IT CAN BE AND
I'LL BRING IN MY FELLOW
COLLEAGUES HERE, BUT IN MY
OPINION, LOCAL FOOD IS GOING TO
TASTE BETTER BECAUSE IT'S COMING
TO YOUR DOOR FASTER, SO IT'S NOT
GOING TO BE PROCESSED, BLANCHED
WITH CHEMICALS, SHIPPED ACROSS
THE BORDER OR FLOWN IN A PLANE
AND YOU'RE EATING IT TWO WEEKS
AFTER IT'S BEEN PICKED.
A LOCAL PRODUCT CAN BE PICKED
AND THE NEXT DAY YOU HAVE IT ON
YOUR TABLE.
THERE'S MORE TASTE TO IT AND IN
MANY CASES MORE NUTRITION TO IT.
BUT THAT BEING SAID, IT ALSO
DEPENDS ON WHETHER THEY'RE USING
CONVENTIONAL FARMING METHODS
WHERE THEY'RE USING MORE
PESTICIDES AND MORE CONVENTIONAL
MEANS TO PRODUCE THE FOOD OR IF
THEY'RE USING MORE SUSTAINABLE
METHODS OF PRODUCTION.

Steve says THAT'S THE THING, SARAH.
YOU SEE LOCAL, YOU SEE ORGANIC,
AND YOU WONDER ARE THESE
MARKETING LABELS OR IS THIS
REALLY DIFFERENT?

Sarah says WHAT WE NEED
IS A SYSTEM, AND IN SOME WAYS
ORGANIC STANDARDS ARE DOING THIS
NOW IN CANADA, WE NEED STANDARDS
SO THE CONSUMER CAN UNDERSTAND
WHAT THEY'RE GETTING.
IT IS BETTER FOR OUR HEALTH ALSO
IN ANOTHER WAY, AND THAT IS,
WHEN WE HAVE FARMS THAT WE BUY
FOOD FROM, THAT ARE NEARBY, THEY
CAN STAY IN BUSINESS AND WE'RE
PROTECTING ALL THAT FARMLAND
NEAR OUR CITIES AND THAT
FARMLAND OFFERS US NOT ONLY
HEALTHY FOOD BUT ECOLOGICAL
GOODS AND SERVICES.
SO WE BENEFIT IN MANY WAYS, PLUS
IT'S GOOD FOR OUR LOCAL ECONOMY.
FOOD DOLLARS, THEY MOVE AROUND,
AND THEY CREATE JOBS AND THEY
CREATE ALL SORTS OF OPPORTUNITY
FOR INNOVATION AND WHEN WE'RE
THINKING FOOD -- THAT'S WHY I
LOVE TO WRITE ABOUT FOOD.
FOOD ISN'T JUST ABOUT WHAT'S ON
THE PLATES, IT'S ABOUT
ECONOMICS, IT'S ABOUT FOOD
CULTURE, IT ALL COMES TOGETHER
AND THE OPPORTUNITY FOR CREATING
A WONDERFUL ALTERNATIVE FOOD
SYSTEM IS VERY RICH AND THAT'S
WHY THERE IS THIS GLOBAL SOCIAL
MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE
WORLD THAT WE DON'T HEAR MUCH
ABOUT WHO ARE WORKING TOWARDS
THE SAME GOALS THAT PEOPLE ARE
HERE IN ONTARIO.

Steve says IN WHICH CASE,
DIANE, HOW WOULD YOU GET PEOPLE
TO CHANGE THEIR FOOD BEHAVIOUR
FOR ETHICAL REASONS?

The caption changes to "Our new diet?"

Diane says IT'S VERY
COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT'S THE
WHOLE SOCIETY THAT HAS TO
CHANGE.
LIKE I SAID, OUR RAPPORT WITH
FOOD USED TO BE SACRED.
THERE WAS A SYMBOLIC ORDER.
LIKE, WE DIDN'T EAT JUST
ANYTHING ANY DAY, ANY TIME OF
THE DAY.
LIKE NOW I KNOW PEOPLE WHO EAT
BREAKFAST THREE TIMES A DAY.
OTHER ONES WHO EAT TURKEY
OUTSIDE OF THANKSGIVING.
SO THERE IS A RAPPORT WITH FOOD
WHICH IS, BECAUSE OF
CONSUMERISM -- BEFORE FOOD WAS
SOMETHING BETWEEN NECESSITY AND
PLEASURE.
NOW IT'S STRICTLY PLEASURE.
IT'S ABOUT PLEASURE.
AND LET US NOT FORGET, WE LIVE
IN A VERY INDIVIDUALISTIC
SOCIETY.
PEOPLE WANT TO BE SATISFIED,
THEY WANT TO BE, YOU KNOW,
SATIATED, AND THIS IS ANOTHER
ASPECT WHICH IS VERY
COMPLICATED.
WE NEVER HAD SO MANY FOODS BUT
WE'RE ALWAYS HUNGRY, YOU KNOW?
AND IT'S PROBLEMATIC.
AND I BELIEVE DEEPLY THAT IT
COMES FROM THIS DISASSOCIATION
THAT HAPPENED AT A CERTAIN TIME
BETWEEN A CODE THAT CODIFIED,
YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU EAT ON
MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY,
THURSDAY, FRIDAY, CHRISTMAS, YOU
KNOW, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH,
AND THE FASTING THAT WAS RELATED
TO RELIGION ALSO.
PEOPLE KNEW THERE WERE MOMENTS
OF THE YEAR THAT YOU STOPPED
EATING.
NOW THERE IS SUCH A BIG SYMBOLIC
CONFUSION THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW
HOW TO RESIST TO THIS UNENDING
SEDUCTION THAT COMES FROM
COMMERCIALISM, THAT COMES FROM
THE BIG CORPORATIONS, YOU KNOW,
ARE ALWAYS AFTER US, IF YOU
DON'T EAT THIS -- FOOD BECAME A
TREND, LIKE FASHION.
SO IT'S REALLY COMPLEX.

Steve says MARK, WHAT APPEAL
WOULD YOU MAKE TO PEOPLE TO TRY
TO GET THEM TO CHANGE THEIR
EATING HABITS, THE WAY THEY
RESPECT THE ENVIRONMENT AROUND
THEM, ALL OF THAT KIND OF THING?
WHAT'S THE APPEAL?

Mark says I THINK --
TAKE A COOKING COURSE.
WE'VE LOST THE ABILITY TO COOK
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE NOWADAYS
RELY ON FAST FOOD.
60 PERCENT OF PEOPLE EAT OUT AT
LEAST ONCE A WEEK.
WE'RE RELYING MORE ON PROCESSED
FOOD, PREPACKAGED FOOD,
MICROWAVE OVENS.
IF WE CAN GET BACK TO PEOPLE
LEARNING HOW TO TRUSS A CHICKEN.

Steve says WHAT DID YOU SAY?
TRUSS A CHICKEN?
CAN I ADMIT SOMETHING AWFUL?
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU JUST
SAID.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Mark says TO TIE THE
LEGS AND WINGS BACK SO IT'S NOT
GOING TO BURN WHEN YOU PUT IT IN
THE OVEN.

Steve says THAT'S A NEW ONE ON ME.
YOU'RE TALKING TO A PERSON WHO
EATS AT McDONALD'S THREE TIMES
A WEEK.
I HAVE TO LEARN HERE.

Mark says THERE ARE
HEALTHY OPTIONS.
FAST FOOD HAS COME A WAYS TO
OFFER MORE HEALTHY OPTIONS.
BAKED POTATO, SIDE SALAD.
THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT.
IF PEOPLE CAN LEARN TO COOK FOR
THEMSELVES, THEY'LL ACTUALLY
UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING INTO
THEIR FOOD.

Steve says HMM.
DO YOU THINK CANADIANS ARE OPEN
TO EATING DIFFERENTLY GOING
FORWARD?

Sarah says THERE'S BEEN
SUCH A RADICAL SHIFT IN THE LAST
TEN YEARS.
IT ASTOUNDS ME.
THIS IS WHAT I LIVE AND BREATHE
EVERY DAY.
THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
THINKING ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY,
WHO ARE GOING TO FARMERS
MARKETS, WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT
WHERE THEIR FOOD COMES FROM IS
JUST ENORMOUS.

Steve says WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?

Sarah says WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?
I THINK WE HAVE THIS LARGE
ANXIETY ABOUT OUR FOOD BECAUSE
OUR FOOD IS SCARY, THE
INDUSTRIAL FOOD SYSTEM, THERE'S
A WHOLE BUNCH OF BAD STUFF
THAT'S BEEN SAID ABOUT THE
INDUSTRIAL FOOD SYSTEM AND A LOT
OF IT IS WELL-FOUNDED.
AND IT JUST DOESN'T SPEAK TO OUR
SOULS AND TO OUR HEARTS, LIKE WE
WANT OUR FOOD TO PLEASE US, AND
WE HAVE SEEN SUCH AN INCREDIBLE
RESPONSE TO WHAT'S HAPPENING BY
FAST FOOD ADVERTISING.
YOU GO AROUND AND YOU SEE THERE
ARE FAST FOOD COMPANIES THAT ARE
THANKING OUR LOCAL FARMERS FOR
PRODUCING FOOD.
AND THE SUPERMARKET IS BEING
REFASHIONED TO FEEL LIKE A
FARMERS MARKET.
THERE'S OBVIOUSLY MAJOR DOLLARS
AT STAKE HERE, AND THE BIG FOOD
COMPANIES ARE PAYING ATTENTION
TO WHAT'S HAPPENING.

Steve says I HEAR YOU, BUT
THERE PRESUMABLY MUST STILL BE A
LOT OF MARKS IN JUST GET IT OUT
THERE, GET IT INTO MY BODY, AND
LET ME GET OUT OF HERE WITHIN 20
MINUTES BECAUSE I'VE GOT MY LIFE
TO LEAD.

Sarah says ABSOLUTELY.
BECAUSE OUR FOOD CULTURE IS ONE
THAT DOES NOT VALUE COOKING FROM
SCRATCH, OUR FOOD CULTURE DOES
NOT VALUE ANYTHING EXCEPT
CONVENIENCE AND CHEAPNESS.
THAT'S GOING TO PUSH US TO BUY
PREPARED FOODS AND GO TO THE
SUPERMARKET AND BUY PREMADE
MEALS.

Diane says WHEN YOU GO IN
A RESTAURANT AND THEY ADD ALL
THE ADDITIVES AND IT TASTES
BETTER THAN THE FOOD THAT WE EAT
AT HOME, YOU KNOW?

Sarah says BUT OUR TASTE
BUDS HAVE BEEN SCHOOLED BY NOW
GENERATIONS OF EATING THESE
PROCESSED FOODS SO WE'RE
EXPECTING THAT HIT OF SALT, THAT
FAT, THAT SUGAR, WOW!
WHEN REALLY IF WE WERE COOKING
FROM SCRATCH, YOU DON'T EVEN
HAVE TO TRUSS -- YOU DON'T HAVE
TO KNOW HOW TO TRUSS A CHICKEN
TO EASILY COOK FOR YOUR FAMILY
AND FEED THEM FOOD THAT YOU WENT
AND YOU BOUGHT FROM A LOCAL
FARMER WHO IS GROWING IT IN A
SUSTAINABLE WAY.

Diane says IT'S ALSO A
MATTER OF MONEY.
IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUY
ORGANIC FOOD.
IT'S NOT EASY TO GET TO IT.
SO THERE IS A DISCREPANCY WHICH
IS LIKE LITERALLY A CLASS
DISCREPANCY.
I SEE THAT IN THE FAMILIES WHERE
THERE IS MORE MONEY COMING IN,
THIS DESIRE OF CHANGING OUR
WAYS, IT'S MORE FEASIBLE.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A FAMILY, YOU
KNOW, WHICH HAS NO MONEY OR, FOR
INSTANCE, MY STUDENTS, THEY HAVE
TO EAT AT THE CAFETERIA --

Steve says THEY'RE ON A BUDGET.

Diane says THEY'RE ON A BUDGET.
IT BECOMES MORE DIFFICULT.
SO WE ARE IN A TRANSITIONAL
MOMENT, I THINK.
RIGHT NOW I BELIEVE THE
CONSCIOUSNESS IS THERE.
BUT THERE AREN'T MANY PEOPLE
THAT ARE AWARE AND HAVE
ANXIETIES ABOUT FOOD.
LITERALLY, PEOPLE THINK THAT
THEY'RE POISONED, THEY EAT
THINGS THAT ARE KILLING
THEMSELVES.
SO THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS THERE.
IT'S HOW TO SUCCEED IN CHANGING
THE PRACTICES, YOU KNOW,
CONCERNING, YOU KNOW, HOW WE
EAT.
AND I BELIEVE THAT WILL TAKE
MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LONGER, I'M
NOT SURE.

Sarah says I WANTED TO
SAY THAT THAT IS EXACTLY THE
COST ISSUE, THIS IDEA THAT
SUSTAINABLE FOOD IS MORE
EXPENSIVE, IS ONE REASON WHY THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING TO BUILD
BETTER, SUSTAINABLE FOOD SYSTEMS
ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS.
HOW DO WE MAKE THIS FOOD SYSTEM
ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYBODY?
EVERYBODY HAS TO BE INVITED SO
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKING A
MINIMUM WAGE THAT PEOPLE CAN
LIVE OFF OF, WE'RE TALKING, HOW
DO YOU ENSURE THAT THE FARMER
MAKES ENOUGH MONEY?
FARMERS ARE AMONG THE POOREST
PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.
SO HOW DO WE HAVE A FOOD SYSTEM
WHERE FARMERS ARE EARNING A
DECENT WAGE AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE TO RE-THINK THAT
ENTIRE FOOD SYSTEM, AND THAT'S
WHY ECONOMICS IS SO IMPORTANT TO
THIS AS WELL.

Steve says IF, THOUGH, MARK, WE
WERE GOING TO CHANGE OUR DIETS
SO THAT WE CARED LESS ABOUT
FAST, GET IT INTO ME, GET OUT OF
THERE, YOU KNOW, LESS ABOUT THE
OBSESSION WITH TASTE, MORE ABOUT
HOW TO COOK YOUR OWN FOODS, MORE
ABOUT HOW TO EAT AN
ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSIBLE DIET,
WOULD IT LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT
THAN WHAT WE DO RIGHT NOW?

Mark says IT WOULD LOOK
A LOT DIFFERENT IN THAT -- RIGHT
NOW YOU GO TO A RESTAURANT AND
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU WALK IN
AND SAY I'M GOING TO HAVE A
STEAK.
WHAT SIZE DO YOU ORDER?
12 OR 16 OUNCES?
THE AVERAGE PERSON EATS BETWEEN
100 TO 300 GRAMS OF PROTEIN.
YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH ONLY 50.
IF YOU GOT A SALAD THAT HAD
THREE PIECES OF SLICED STEAK ON
TOP OF IT, WOULD YOU FEEL YOU
GOT VALUE FOR YOUR MONEY?
THIS IS PART OF THE ISSUE.

Steve says IT IS HEALTHIER FOR ME.

Mark says IT IS.
IF YOU FILL YOUR PLATE WITH MORE
GREENS AND VEGETABLES AND THINGS
THAT HAVE MORE NUTRITION FOR
YOU, YOU'LL HAVE A HEALTHIER DIET.
IF YOU START CUTTING DOWN ON THE
PROTEIN YOU'RE EATING, YOU'LL
ACTUALLY BE CUTTING SOME OF THAT
PROTEIN WE'RE FORCING OUR
FARMERS TO PRODUCE TONS OF,
WHICH IS CREATING THE GREENHOUSE
GASES.

Steve says SARAH, I'M GOING TO
FINISH UP THERE, MARK, WHICH IS
A NICE SEGUE, WHICH IS AS YOU
LOOK FORWARD AND THE IMPACT THAT
CLIMATE CHANGE WILL HAVE ON WHAT
WE CAN GROW AND THEREFORE WHAT
WE EAT, WHAT COMES TO MIND?

Sarah says IT DEPENDS IF
I'M FEELING OPTIMISTIC OR
PESSIMISTIC.
I'M GOING FOR OPTIMISM TODAY.
I'M ENVISIONING A FUTURE WHERE
WE HAVE A CONSUMER CULTURE --
OR, RATHER, A FOOD CULTURE THAT
ISN'T A CONSUMER CULTURE.
A FOOD CULTURE THAT VALUES OTHER
THINGS, THAT VALUES THE WAY --
THE ETHICS OF FOOD, THAT VALUES
HOW THE FOOD WAS RAISED, HOW --

Steve says THAT'S ALL WRAPPED
UP IN CLIMATE CHANGE?

Sarah says YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
CLIMATE CHANGE IS VERY CONNECTED
TO -- WELL, CLIMATE CHANGE IS
THE PUSH FACTOR.
WHY DO WE NEED TO CARE ABOUT
THIS NOW?
WHY DOES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US
HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT HOW
OUR FOOD IS PRODUCED AND
CHOOSING FOOD THAT IS BETTER?
BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
IT'S OUR OPPORTUNITY.
EACH OF US CAN DO SOMETHING
EVERY DAY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE.

Steve says BECAUSE AGRICULTURE
CONTRIBUTES SIGNIFICANTLY TO
CLIMATE CHANGE, AS WE'VE JUST
HEARD EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM.
DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THE LAST
WORD ON THAT?

Mark says IT CONTRIBUTES
TO CLIMATE CHANGE.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING
TO DO, WE'RE DEVELOPING THE
CHEFS OF THE FUTURE AT GEORGE
BROWN.
WE'VE ACTUALLY WRITTEN
SUSTAINABILITY INTO OUR COURSE
LECTURES.
WE'VE ACTUALLY BUILT NUTRITION
INTO THE COURSE LECTURES.
EVERY RECIPE HAS A NUTRITION
LABEL ON IT.
WE TEACH STUDENTS HOW TO REPLACE
FOODS.
INSTEAD OF HAVING A HUGE STEAK
ON THE PLATE, HOW DO WE REPLACE
THAT WITH GRAINS OR LENTILS AND
SOMETHING WITH A HIGHER PROTEIN
CONTENT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY
HAVE TO BE BEEF ALL THE TIME.

The caption changes to "Produced by Mark Brosens, @markbrosens."

Steve says DO YOU HAVE A COURSE
CALLED HOW TO TRUSS A CHICKEN?
I THINK I NEED TO SIGN UP FOR
THAT ONE.
A NEW THING I LEARNED TODAY.
THANKS FOR THAT.
DIANE PACOM, MARK HOLMES, SARAH
ELTON, GOOD OF YOU TO JOIN US
AT TVO FOR THIS TONIGHT.
THANKS SO MUCH.

The guests say THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Watch: The Future of Food