Transcript: Naomi Kikoler: Crisis in the Central African Republic | Apr 28, 2014

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray pinstripe suit, white shirt, and striped golden tie. Behind him, a wall screen reads “The Agenda, with Steve Paikin.”

Steve says IT'S BEEN TWO DECADES
SINCE THE WORLD WITNESSED THE
HORRORS OF A THREE MONTH
GENOCIDE IN THE SMALL AFRICAN
NATION OF RWANDA.
WHILE THE INTERNATIONAL
CONSENSUS AFTER THE SLAUGHTER
WAS “NEVER AGAIN” MANY NOW FEAR
WE ARE WITNESSING IT ALL OVER
AGAIN IN ANOTHER NEARBY
COUNTRY: THE CENTRAL AFRICAN
REPUBLIC.
JOINING US NOW FOR MORE ON THE
ETHNIC VIOLENCE THAT HAS SWEPT
ACROSS THAT COUNTRY
NAOMI KIKOLER, DIRECTOR OF
POLICY AND ADVOCACY AT THE
GLOBAL CENTRE FOR THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT.

Naomi appears on screen with a backdrop that shows the capitol dome lit up at night. She’s in her early thirties, with long wavy auburn hair. She’s wearing a black sweater.

Steve continues NAOMI, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU, A
TORONTONIAN, BACK ON THE AIR.
HOW ARE YOU DOING.

Naomi says NOT TOO BAD.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

Steve and Naomi appear on split screens, with the caption "Crisis in the Central African Republic." A caption under Naomi’s frame reads "Washington."

Steve says LET'S PUT UP SOME
FACTS THAT I SUSPECT MANY
VIEWERS DON'T KNOW AT ALL.
IT HAS NOT BEEN IN THE NEWS
UNTIL LIGHTLY.

A slate appears on screen, with the title “Central African Republic genocide?”
It shows a map of Central Africa, with the Central African Republic highlighted in red and dots marking the cities of Bangui, Bouar, and Bossangoa. The country is located east of Cameroon, west of South Sudan, north of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and south of Chad.

Steve continues HERE'S THE Central African REPUBLIC.
JUST OVER FIVE MILLION PEOPLE.

Another slate pops up and Steve reads...
Religious makeup, 35 percent hold indigenous beliefs, 25 percent are Protestant, 25 percent are Roman Catholic, and 15 percent are Muslim, according to the CIA World Factbook.

Steve continues These ARE SOME FACTS FROM YOUR
ORGANIZATION, NAOMI.
More than 325000 civilians have sought refuge in neighbouring countries because of the recent violence.
There are more than 632000 internally displaced persons.
This is now ranked as a “level 3” humanitarian emergency by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
That is the highest level.

We are going to show some photos as well, but
WHEN YOU WERE THERE, AND WHEN YOUR PLANE LANDED, WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A picture pops up on screen showing a refugee camp in a desert. Dozens of dusty tarpaulin tents are concentrated around a broken-down plane. Clothes hang from lines to dry.
Another picture shows two children playing by improvised tents made of old sheets.

Naomi says WELL, IT'S REALLY QUITE
STARTLING.
AS SOON AS YOU ARRIVE IN BAN
CAN
KI, THE CAPITAL YOU ARE HIT BY
THE ENORMITY OF THE CRISIS.
WHEN YOU LAND YOU SEE WHAT IS
ESSENTIALLY A CAMP OF DISPLACED
PEOPLE.
THE PEOPLE LIVE ALONGSIDE THE
LANDING STRIP OF THE AIRPORT.
THEY HAVE BEEN DISPLACED MANY
MONTHS AND ARE IN VERY DIRE
CONDITIONS.

Additional pictures show crowds of people near the refugee camps.

Steve says THEY ARE THERE
BECAUSE WHY?

Naomi says THOSE WHO LIVE ALONGSIDE THE
LANDING STRIP OF THE AIRPORT
ARE PREDOMINANTLY CHRISTIANS
THOUGH THERE ARE SOME MUSLIMS
AMONGST THEM, WHO WERE
DISPLACED IN 2013 WHEN A COUP
TOOK PLACE BETWEEN A GROUP THAT
WAS AN ISLAMIST ARMED GROUP AND
AT THAT TIME THE AFRICAN
CENTRAL REPUBLIC.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Naomi Kikoler. Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect."

Steve says WHO ARE NOT MUSLIM?

The caption changes to "Groups, motives, damages."

Naomi says WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY OVER
THREW THE THEN GOVERNMENT.
THEY CREATED THEIR OWN
GOVERNMENT.
THEY WERE THEN ESSENTIALLY
OUSTED.
THERE WAS PRESSURE PLACED ON
THE INDIVIDUAL WHO TOOK OVER TO
STEP DOWN IN JANUARY 2014 AND A
TRANSITIONAL GOVERNMENT WAS PUT
IN PLACE AND SINCE THEN WE HAVE
ESSENTIALLY SEEN FIGHTING
PRIMARILY LED BY A GROUP WHO
ARE A BIT OF AN ADHOC MISH
MASH.
FORMER GOVERNMENT ARMED FORCES,
ALSO ESSENTIALLY ROVING
BANDITS, CRIMINALS, WHO ARE
TARGETING PRIMARILY THE MUSLIM
COMMUNITY WITHIN THE CENTRAL
AFRICAN REPUBLIC.

Steve says ANY CHILDREN AS WELL.

Naomi says THERE ARE CHILDREN.
THERE WERE CHILDREN IN THE
RANKS AND THERE ARE NOW YOUNG
CHILDREN IN THE ATNIBALAKA.
WHEN I SAW THEM OUTSIDE THE
RURAL CAPITAL THEY LOOKED LIKE
YOUNG TEENAGERS.
THEY WERE DRUNK, ARMED AND
UNFORTUNATELY VERY DEADLY.

Steve says I REMEMBER A COUPLE
OF DECADES AGO I REMEMBER
SIMILAR PROBLEMS IN THE BALKANS
WHERE PEOPLE HAD LIVED SIDE BY
SIDE FOR DECADES.
HAD FRIEND IN DIFFERENT ETHNIC
GROUPS AND SUDDENLY TAKING UP
ARMS KILLING EACH OTHER.
IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE
AS WELL?

A slate pops up with the question “What did we learn from Rwanda?” The slate shows the Twitter logo and the hashtag AgendaTVO.

Naomi says IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED
SITUATION.
I THINK WHAT WE SEE
UNFORTUNATELY IS A MANIPULATION
OF RELIMBOUS IDENTITY.
THEY ARE USING RELIGION AS A
WAY TO CREATE DIFFERENTS
AMONGST TEEM TO SECURE THEIR
OWN INTERESTS.
UNFORTUNATELY WHAT HAS HAPPENED
MANY THE PAST FEW MONTHS IS 80
PER CENT OF THE MUSLIM
POPULATION HAS EITHER BEEN
FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES OR
KILLED.

Steve says HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN
WHERE ON ONE DAY YOU CAN MARRY
YOUR NEIGHBOUR WHO IS OF A
DIFFERENTLY ETHNICITY AND THE
NEXT DAY YOU CAN SOMEHOW BUY
INTO PROPAGANDA THAT THEY ARE
SUBHUMAN AND NEED TO BE KILLED?
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN IN.

Naomi says THIS IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE REALLY WRESTLE WITH.
IN THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC
YOU DID SEE SOME COMMUNITIES
LIVING SIDE BY SIDE.
GENERALLY THEY TALK OF A GOOD
SENSE OF COMMUNITIES.
WHEN YOU TALK TO THE AVERAGE
PERSON THEY REFER TO THE MUSLIM
COMMUNITY AS ESSENTIALLY BEING
FOREIGNERS EVEN THOUGH IN MANY
CASES YOU HAD SEEN PEOPLE
LIVING IN THE COUNTRY FOR
MULTIPLE GENERATIONS YOU ALSO
HEAR PEOPLE TALK IN A
DEROGATORY SENSE OF MUSLIMS
KEEPING ALL THE BUSINESSES
KEEPING THE MONEY.
THERE WERE SOME PERCEIVED
DIFFERENCES BY SOME ACTORS WHO
MANIPULATED IT AND WERE WILLING
TO USE VIOLENCE TO ACHIEVE
POWER.

Steve says ANY IDEA HOW MANY
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED SO FAR?

Naomi says IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO
FIND OUT.
THAT'S ONE OF THE WORRYING
ASPECTS OF THE CONFLICT.
I KNOW IN RWANDA WHEN, WE DON'T
HAVE THOSE TYPES OF NUMBERS
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, TWO
THOUSAND KILLED SINCE DECEMBER,
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER NO ONE IS
ACTUALLY KEEPING A DEATH TOLL
IN THE CASE AND MUCH OF THE
COUNTRY IS FAIRLY INACCESSIBLE.
IT'S HARD TO REACH THE RURAL
AREAS.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE
ARE BEEN KILLED IN THE RURAL
COMMUNITIES.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE
ARE CURRENTLY STARVING IN THE
REMOTE LOCATIONS.
THE SENSE FROM HUMANITARIAN
COLLEAGUES ON THE GROUND IS
THAT UNFORTUNATELY THE DEATH
TOLL IS HIGH, WE JUST DON'T
KNOW.

Steve says PROBABLY HIGHER THAN
THE TWO THOUSAND NUMBER,
THOUGH, YES.

Naomi says VASTLY HIGHER.

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT
BOOTS ON THE GROUND.
THERE ARE EFFORTS BY OTHER
COUNTRIES TO GET INVOLVED IN
THIS CREW SUS.
FRANCE HAS APPARENTLY COMMITTED
TWO THOUSAND TROOPS TO THE
CAUSE.
THE AFRICAN UNION HAS TALKED
ABOUT SIX THOUSAND PEACE
KEEPERS ON THE GROUND.
HOW SUCCESSFUL HAVE THESE PEACE
EFFORTS BEEN AS FAR AS YOU CAN
TELL.

The caption changes to "Boots on the ground."

Naomi says A STARTING POINT, I THINK IN
THE ABSENCE OF THE E.U. PEACE
KEEPERS AND FRENCH TROOPS WE
WOULD HAVE SEEN HIGHER LEVELS
BEING PERPETRATED.
WE SOME COLLEAGUES REFER TO --
HAVING SAID THAT IT'S
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR THESE
PEACE KEEPERS TO PROVIDE THE
TYPE OF PHYSICAL PROTECTION WE
THINK IS REQUIRED.
THERE ARE CURRENTLY 12
THOUSANDS MUSLIMS LIVING IN TWO
BESIEGED COMMUNITIES LIVING IN
BAN GE.
TO GIVE AWE SMALL EXAMPLE OF
WHAT THAT MEANS, TWO THOUSAND
PEOPLE ARE SURROUND BID THE
ROVING BANDS.
EVERY NIGHT YOU HEAR GUNSHOTS
AND GRENADES GOING OFF AND IT'S
ESSENTIALLY CLASHES BETWEEN THE
BESIEGED MUSLIM COMMUNITY AND
THE ANTIBALAKA.
EVERY TIME THEY TRY TO STEP
OUTSIDE OF 9 AREA.
IT'S HARD FOR THE PEACE KEEPERS
IN THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT.

Steve says AND IT'S AN
INDICATION OF HOW MUCH MORE
NORMAL RWANDA IS TODAY, I
GATHER PART OF THE African
UNION FORCE ARE RWANDAN
SOLDIERS; IS THAT RIGHT?

Naomi says YES, THAT'S TRUE.
THE RWANDAN FORCES HAVE BEEN
COMMENDED FOR THE EFFORT THEY
HAVE TAKEN TO SAVE LIVES.
T ONE ANECDOTE FROM A PEACE
KEEPER WHO WAS NOT RWANDAN BUT
WHO HIMSELF WAS OF MUSLIM
DESCENT TALKED ABOUT HOW
DIFFICULT IT WAS AS A MUSLIM
PEACE KEEPER TO STAND AND WATCH
OTHER PEOPLE BE KILLED IN FRONT
OF THEM.
FOR THE RWANDANS THEY WANT TO
ENSURE OTHERS DON'T SUFFER WHAT
THEY DID DURING THEIR GENOCIDE
IN 1994.

Steve says THE UNITED NATIONS I
GATHER UNION NAN MOUSEHY
SUPPORTED SENDING PEACE KEEPERS
TO THE REGION.

Naomi says I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE BETWEEN
NOW AND SEPTEMBER.
THE PEACE KEEPING MISSION HAS
ESSENTIALLY BEEN CREATED.
YES, IT'S IN NAME ALONE.
WE WON'T SEE THE ADDED INFUSION
ABOUT ANOTHER SEVEN THOUSAND
TROOPS AND PEACE KEEPERS UNTIL
SEPTEMBER BUT BETWEEN NEW AND
THEN THE U.N. CAN INVEST IN
LOCAL LEVEL CONFLICT
RESOLUTION, MEDIATION EFFORTS
BETWEEN COMMUNITIES, THERE ARE
STILL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY
WHERE THEY LIVE TOGETHER AND
WHERE THERE CAN BE EFFORTS
TAKEN TO PROMOTE GREATER
TOLERANCE.
THE U.N. CAN TAKE STEPS TO HELP
EPP INSURANCE THOSE COMMITTING
CRIMES ARE ARRESTED, DETAINED
AND PROSECUTED.
WE NEED PROTECTION ON THE GROUND.
WE NEED TO SEE THE EUROPEAN
UNION PUT TROOPS ON THE GROUND.
IN ADDITION BOOT ON THE GROUND
ARE NEEDED TO SAVE LIVES.

Steve says SUCH AS?

A picture appears on screen showing an armed soldier pointing out as he walks in a precarious shantytown. Another picture show protests in which young men burn tyres on dirt streets.

Naomi says I THINK SOME OF THE ONES, WE
HAVE SEEN A PEACE KEEPING
MISSION.
WE HAVE SEEN TARGETED MISSIONS
OF PEOPLE BEHIND SOME OF THE
VIOLENCE, INCLUDING THE
TOMORROWER PRESIDENT.
WE BELIEVE INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT INVESTIGATION,
PROSECUTION OF THOSE
RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME OF THE
CRIMES IS AN IMPORTANT STEP.
IN ADDITION, MESSAGING, SAYING
THAT EVERY MEMBER, EVERY PERSON
IN THE CENTRAL FRICKAN REPUBLIC
IS THE SAME -- AFRICAN PUB, IS
IT THE SAME, THEY ARE COMMITTED
TO A PEACE, ONE NATION.
THAT IS THE TYPE OF MISSION
SAME THAT NEEDS TO COME FROM
THE GOVERNMENT AND
INTERNATIONAL ACTORS AS WELL.

Steve says INTERNATIONAL actors YOU SAID.
I WANT TO READ YOU SOMETHING
THAT WAS IN THE GLOBE AND MAIL
TO SEE IF YOU THINK CANADA IS
ONE OF THE actors.
THIS IS BY ROBERT ROCKBURG.

A quote appears on screen, under the title “A savior in Canada?” The quote reads “Why Canada? Because all the other capable Western countries are otherwise engaged or extended. Because Canada has the francophone links. Because the C.A.R. has been a country of concern for Foreign Affairs and the Canadian International Development Agency. And most of all, because the C.A.R. is a beleaguered, desperate, neglected country with no real friends beyond France.
With comparatively modest exertion –deployment of a few thousand soldiers and up to 1000 Mounties- Canada could help the French, E.U. and African forces to restore order and the possibility of stability. Canada could make a difference.”
Quote by Robert Rotberg, The Globe and Mail, April 8, 2014.


Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Naomi says I THINK ROBERT IS ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, MY EXPERIENCE WITHIN
THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC
ONLY CONFIRMED TO ME THE ROLE
CANADA CAN PLAY TO BRING ORDER,
STABILITY AND SAVE LIVES FROM
MASS ATROCITIES.
OBVIOUSLY CANADA WAS ONE OF THE
CHAMPIONS OF THE RESPONSE TO
PROTECT WHICH IS THE FRAMEWORK
WHICH MAKES NEVER AGAIN REAL.
PART OF IT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE
CONTRIBUTING PEACE KEEPERS TO A
MISSION LIKE THE ONE IN THE
CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC.
WE ARE REPEATEDLY TOLD FOR
EVERY ONE WESTERN PEACE KEEPER
YOU CAN CONTRIBUTE IT'S THE
EQUIVALENT OF THREE FRICKAN
UNION PEACE KEEPERS.
IF WE HAD PEACE KEEPERS WE
COULD PUT ON THE GROUND I THINK
WE COULD GO A LONG WAY TO
PROVIDING THE PHYSICAL
PROTECTION REQUIRED.
WE HAVE EXPERIENCE FROM
AFGHANISTAN.
WE HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO IT.
THE FACT THAT WE ARE BILINGUAL.
I CAN'T STRESS HOW IMPORTANT
THAT IS.
WE HAVE PROVIDED FIVE MILLION
IN ASSISTANCE.
THAT'S VERY COMMENDABLE.
I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO BE
LOOKING AT HOW TO USE SOME OF
THE SKILLS AND RESOURCES THAT
CANADA HAS DEVELOPED.
FOR EXAMPLE AGAIN IN
AFGHANISTAN, ON STATE BUILDING.
ON REDRAFTING CONSTITUTIONS.
ON Breakfast TELEVISIOING
PEOPLE FOR MASS ATROCITY
CRIMES.
BEV A BIDRILL SYSTEM.
WE HAVE THE TYPE OF EXPERTS WE
COULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE CENTRAL
AFRICAN REPUBLIC.

Steve says YOU MENTION
AFGHANISTAN AS A REASON GIVING
US EXPERTISE IN THE AREA WHY WE
SHOULD GO IN.
I IMAGINE PEOPLE WILL USE
AFGHANISTAN AS THE EXAMPLE WHY
WE SHOULD NOT GO IN.
THAT WE HAVE SPENT YEARS AND
150 LIVES IN PURSUIT AFTER GOAL
IN AFGHANISTAN THAT NOT
EVERYBODY IS CONVINCED WAS
WORTH THE price OF BLOOD AND
TREASURE.

Steve says WHAT ARGUMENT WOULD
YOU MAKE THAT AFGHANISTAN IS
EXACTLY THE REASON WE SHOULD
AVOID CAR.

Naomi says THE UP SITUATION IS
DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT.
THE EUROPEAN UNION IS GOING TO
BE SENDING A MISSION WHICH
CANADA CAN CONTRIBUTE TO.
IT IS A TIME LIT LUM ITSELFED
MISSION.
IT IS EXPECTED TO WITHDRAW AT
THE SAME TIME OF THE EUROPEAN
UNION PEACE KEEPING MISSION.
THERE IS A WAY CANADA CAN GO IN
FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
I CAN ONLY SAY THE SITUATION IN
THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC IS
ONE THAT HAS A ROLE.
WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR CANADA
TO BE PRIMARY ACTOR.
WE LOOKING FOR CANADA TO PLAY A
SUPPORT ROLE IN THAT CONTEXT IN
A LIMITED SENSUOUSING THE
EXPERTISE WE HAVE.
IT IS NOT A SITUATION WHERE I
THINK WE COULD FORECAST WE
COULD SEE A LARGE DEATH TOLL.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDER SCORE
THE NATURE OF THE RYE LENS IS
DIFFERENT FROM AFGHANISTAN.
WE DON'T SEE THE USE OF
I.E.D.'S FOR EXAMPLE.
SO THE COST IN TERMS OF THE
PHYSICAL RISKS, WHILE THEY
EXIST, ARE DRAMATICALLY
DIFFERENT THAN AFGHANISTAN.
I DON'T THINK CANADA TRYING TO
RE-ESTABLISH -- I DON'T SEE
CANADA TRYING TO RE-ESTABLISH
THE RUN LIKE IN AFGHANISTAN.
IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION.
IT'S ONE THAT I THINK IS QUITE
SIGNIFICANT.

Steve says NAOMI, HAVE YOU OR
ANY OTHER COUNTRY OF
SIGNIFICANCE MADE THAT ACTUAL
ASK TO HARPER OR ANYBODY IN HIS
GOVERNMENT.

Naomi says WE HAVE MADE IT TO DIFFERENT
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS BUT NOT IN
A FORMAL SENSE TO PRIME
MINISTER HARPER AND I WOULD
ENCOURAGE MANY CANADIANS TO ASK
THAT OF THEIR M.P.s.
WE SAW JOHN BAIRD IN A RECENT
SPEECH MARK THE ACTUAL DAY
REAFFIRM CANADA'S COMMITMENT TO
THE MOTION OF NEVER AGAIN.
I THINK WHAT WE UNFORTUNATELY
SEE FROM MANY GOVERNMENTS IS
WONDERFUL RHETORIC BUT A
SLIGHTLY ABYSMAL RECORD WHEN IT
COMES TO ACTUALLY HOW OLDING
THOSE COMMITMENTS.
I THINK AS WE APPROACH A NUMBER
OF ANNIVERSARIES THIS MONTHS
INCLUDING WE JUST PASSED THE
20th ANNIVERSARY.
WE WILL SEE THE ANNIVERSARY OF
THE HOLOCAUST, I THINK NOW IS
THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO ASK OF
HARPER AND OTHERS WHAT CAN WE
DO FOR THE CENTRAL AFRICAN
REPUBLIC.

Steve says THE 20th
ANNIVERSARY OF -- SINCE YOU
HAVE BEEN TO THE CENTRAL
AFRICAN REPUBLIC, DO YOU SEE
“NEVER GAIN” HAPPENING AGAIN?

The caption changes to "Broken promises?"

Naomi says I TEND TO TAKE AN OPTIMISTIC
LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR
QUESTION.
I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE
THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH
SOMETHING THAT IS ALMOST A
GENERATIONAL CHANGE.
I THINK WHEN YOU DEAL WITH 80
PER CENT OF THE MUSLIM
COMMUNITY HAVING BEEN DISPLACED
IT'S HARD TO ARGUE THAT WE HAVE
A NOT FAILED THE PEOPLE IN THE
CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC.
I WAS TOLD BY A MUSLIM, HE
SAWED TO ME, IF I LEAVE THIS
MEETING WEARING MY TRADITIONAL
CLOTHING IDENTIFYING MYSELF AS
A MUSLIM I WILL BE HACKED TO
DEATH.
I THINK THAT IS A STUNNING
INDICTMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY'S FAILURE TOUP HOLD
NEVER AGAIN.
I SAY DURING THE GENOCIDE IN
RWANDA 20 YEARS AGO, THE --
TODAY WHEN THE SECURITY COUNCIL
MEETS IT NEEDS TO ENSURE HOW
THE PEACE KEEPERS ACTUALLY MAKE
A DIFFERENCE.
WE ARE SEEING IMPROVEMENTS.
UNFORTUNATELY IT IS TOO LATE TO
AVERT THE ATROCITY CRIMES THAT
ONE CAN SEE POTENTIALLY
UNFOLDING.
BUT I WILL SAY WE HAVE MADE
STRIDES IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

Steve says YOU JUST USED THE WORD
GENOCIDE WHICH IS A WORD THAT
PACKS AN AWFULLY POWERFUL PUNCH
WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST
OR WHEN TALKING ABOUT RWANDA,
OF TWENTY YEARS AGO, I WONDER,
AND IT'S A HARD QUESTION TO ASK,
BUT DO YOU THINK THE WORD HAS
LOST SOME OF ITS PUNCH IN RECENT
DAYS?

Naomi says I THINK THAT IT -- ONE OF THE
CHALLENGES THAT WE ALWAYS FACE
IS THAT MANY GOVERNMENTS WAIT
UNTIL YOU INVOKE THE LANGUAGE
OF GENOCIDE TO ACT. AND
UNFORTUNATELY, WE OFTEN THEN ACT
FAR TOO LATE.
WE SHOULDN'T NEED TO USE THE
THREAT OF GENOCIDE UNFOLDING OR
HIT THE POINT IN WHICH GENOCIDE
HAS HAPPENED, FOR THE INTER-
NATIONAL COMMUNITY TO TAKE STEPS
TO PROTECT POPULATION. AND I
THINK AS A RESULT WHAT WE HAVE
SEEN IS UNFORTUNATELY A BIT OF A
WATERING DOWN AT TIMES OF WHAT
THAT ACTUAL LANGUAGE MEANS.
IN THE CASE OF CENTRAL AFRICAN
REPUBLIC, THERE IS THE RISK, AS
THE UNITED NATIONS HAS SAID THAT
GENOCIDE WILL UNFOLD.
WHAT WE KNOW HAS HAPPENED
ALREADY, IS THAT CRIMES AGAINST
HUMANITY AND OTHER ATROCITY
CRIMES HAS HAPPENED.
THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH OF AN
INSTIGATORATIVE ACTION FOR
GOVERNMENTS AND FOR THE UN
SYSTEMS TO ACT.

Steve says NAOMI, FORGIVE ME, I'M
DOWN TO MY LAST 30 SECS. HERE,
BUT AGAIN A QUESTION THAT
PROBABLY HAS TO BE ASKED, IS
SPLITTING THE COUNTRY IN HALF?
TWO COUNTRIES, ONE FOR CHRISTIAN
ONE FOR MUSLIM? IS THAT A
SOLUTION HERE?

Naomi says ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
MUST TAKE EVERY EFFORT TO ENSURE
THAT THE CENTRAL AFRICAN
REPUBLIC REMAINS A UNIFIED
COUNTRY WITH BOTH MUSLIMS,
CHRISTIANS AND ANIMISTS LIVING
TOGETHER. AND AS WE FACE A
SITUATION TODAY WHERE MUCH OF
THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY WILL
ACTUALLY BE LOCATED BY THE
UNITED NATIONS OUT OF THEIR HOME
ALL EFFORTS MUST BE MADE TO
ENSURE THAT THOSE DISPLACED
INDIVIDUALS ARE ABLE TO RETURN
AND THAT THE CENTRAL REPUBLIC
REMAINS A UNIFIED COUNTRY.

The caption changes to "The Agenda with Steve Paikin. Weeknights at 8 on TVO and Theagenda.tvo.org"

Steve says NAOMI IT'S ALWAYS
GOOD TO HAVE YOU JOIN US FROM
WASHINGTON, D.C. ON OUR PROGRAM
HERE IN TORONTO, YOUR OLD HOME
TOWN. NAOMI KOKOLA FROM THE
GLOBAL CENTRE FOR THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT
AS ALWAYS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US.

Naomi says THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING
ME.

Watch: Naomi Kikoler: Crisis in the Central African Republic