Transcript: Glen Murray: No Longer Ontario's Next Premier? | Jan 10, 2013

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and a pale green tie. Behind him, a wall screen reads “The Agenda, with Steve Paikin.”

Steve says HE WAS THE MAYOR
OF WINNIPEG,
THE MINISTER OF RESEARCH
AND INNOVATION,
THE MINISTER OF TRAINING
COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.
GLEN MURRAY SAYS HE IS THE
MAN WITH THE EXPERIENCE
AND THE IDEAS THAT
ONTARIO LIBERALS NEED.
ALL SEVEN OF THE LIBERAL
LEADERSHIP CANDIDATES WILL
BE JOINING US HERE ON
“THE AGENDA.”
BEFORE
THE JANUARY 26th CONVENTION.
AND HERE'S GLEN MURRAY,
THE MPP FOR TORONTO CENTRE.
WE WELCOME YOU BACK TO TVO.

Glen is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He wears a dark gray suit, white shirt, and striped purple and black tie.

Glen says THANKS, STEVE.

Steve says I AM ASKING ALL SEVEN
CANDIDATES THE SAME FIRST
QUESTION OFF THE TOP JUST TO
KEEP THINGS NICE AND EVEN.
AND HERE WE GO.
WHAT PARTICULAR SKILL SET DO
YOU OFFER, THAT WOULD MAKE YOU,
IN YOUR VIEW, THE BEST CHOICE
OF THE SEVEN TO LEAD THIS
PROVINCE, AT THIS PARTICULAR
MOMENT IN ITS HISTORY?

A caption appears on screen. It reads “Glen Murray. Ontario Liberal Leadership Candidate. MPP, Toronto Centre.”

Glen says I HAVE A REALLY UNIQUE
ABILITY, I THINK, TESTED
ABILITY, TO LEAD AND EFFECT
SIGNIFICANT CULTURE CHANGE IN
THE WAY A GOVERNMENT OPERATES
AND CAN LEAD A GOVERNMENT
THROUGH TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE.

Steve says AND YOU HAVE DONE THIS
BEFORE, AND THEREFORE YOU KNOW
YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN.

Glen says THAT'S CORRECT.

The caption changes to “Ontario’s Next Premier? theagenda.tvo.org.”

Steve says BECAUSE YOU DID IT WHEN
YOU WERE MAYOR OF WINNIPEG.

Glen says THE CITY HAD THE HIGHEST DEBT
MANY THE COUNTRY AT THE TIME.
THE HIGHEST TAXES.
YOU COULDN'T BORROW MONEY,
YOU COULDN'T RAISE TAXES.
IT WAS DEPOPULATING
ITS HISTORIC CENTRE.
60 PERCENT VACANCY RATE,
SOMETHING OF THAT LEVEL.
THOSE ARE ALL TURNED AROUND.
TAXES CAME DOWN BY 11 PERCENT.
VACANCY RATE WAS DOWN
UNDER 10 PERCENT.
DEBT WAS CUT IN HALF.
CREDIT RATING WENT FROM
A MINUS TO AA POSITIVE.
SO I'VE BEEN THROUGH TOUGH
FINANCIAL CHALLENGES BEFORE
AND DRAMATICALLY INTRODUCED
PRETTY DRAMATIC CHANGE
IN GOVERNMENT.

Steve says A CULTURAL CHANGE
YOU JUST REFERRED TO.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Glen says IT MEANS GOING FROM COST SIDE
MANAGEMENT TO INNOVATION.
FROM NOT JUST REDUCING BUDGETS
OR TWEAKING, OR FREEZING
SALARIES, BUT FUNDAMENTALLY
CHANGING THE MACHINERY
OF GOVERNMENT.

Steve says YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU KNOW?
YOU SAID BEFORE WE
STARTED THIS INTERVIEW,
I'M GOING TO STUN
YOU WITH MY BREVITY.
AND YOU ARE DOING
SO RIGHT NOW.
BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER
BEEN THE BRIEF CANDIDATE.
SO WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

Glen says THE ONE THING I LEARNED FROM
DALTON McGUINTY, AND I THINK
MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID ABOUT
HIM, HE'S NOT THE GUY
HE WAS 16 YEARS AGO.
AND SOMEONE ASKED ME WHAT WAS
THE ONE THING YOU LEARNED
FROM HIM, YOU HAVE TO
CHANGE, YOU HAVE TO GROW.

Steve says AND THAT MEANS,
IN YOUR CASE, WHAT?

Glen says SAY LESS.

Steve says OKAY.
ALL RIGHT,
HERE WE GO.
DEFICIT.
BAD.
14 BILLION.
BIGGEST PROBLEM
IN ONTARIO TODAY?

Glen says IT IS POVERTY AND OUR ABILITY
TO KEEP UP WITH THE CHANGING
ECONOMY AND KEEP JOBS HERE
AND KEEP WEALTH HERE
AND CAPITAL HERE, IS
THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE.
THE BIGGEST IMMEDIATE OBSTACLE
TO THAT IS REALLY AFTER WE
GET THROUGH THIS YEAR'S
DEFICIT IS ANOTHER 34
BILLION DOLLARS WE HAVE TO ABSORB
IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
AND I HAVE SAID THAT IS THE
MOST IMMEDIATE PRIORITY FOR
THE NEXT PREMIER.

Steve says AND, YET, YOU'RE
OFFERING TAX CUTS.

Glen says I AM.
I'M ALSO OFFERING A WAY TO
RESOLVE THAT 34 BILLION
DOLLARS IN DEBT IN THE SAME OR
SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME.
I'M OFFERING TO FIND 14 BILLION
DOLLARS OF FINANCIAL FLEXIBILITY
THROUGH CHANGING THE TAX SYSTEM,
IN ADDITION TO MIDDLE CLASS
TAX CUTS, WHICH I THINK ARE
GOING TO BE ESSENTIAL FOR
PROTECTING EDUCATION
AND HEALTHCARE.
I DON'T THINK RIGHT NOW THE
MACHINERY IS THERE TO DO THAT.

Steve says SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, MIKE
HARRIS IS SAYING TO HIMSELF,
I WAS RIGHT, AND NOW THE
LIBERALS AGREE WITH ME BECAUSE
MOST OF THE CANDIDATES WHO
ARE RUNNING FOR THE LIBERAL
LEADERSHIP ARE OFFERING
TO CUT TAXES SOMEHOW.
HOW DO YOU CUT TAXES AND NOT
LOSE REVENUES TO THE TREASURY,
WHICH YOU WANT TO PAY FOR
HEALTH AND EDUCATION AND ALL
THOSE OTHER GOOD THINGS?

Glen says THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THE PROBLEM I'M TRYING
TO FIX IS THE ONE THAT
MIKE HARRIS CREATED.
MIKE HARRIS STARTED CHANGES
IN THE TAX SYSTEM THAT REALLY
HURT THE MIDDLE CLASS.
THE MIDDLE CLASS NOW HAS
MORE DEBT THAN IT EVER HAS.
ITS INCOME IS FALLING
RELATIVE TO OTHERS IN SOCIETY.
AND BILLS ARE GREATER.
AND THEY'RE HUGELY STRESSED.
SO WHAT I AM DOING IS I'M
CHANGING TAX DEDUCTIONS IN THE
MIDDLE CLASS AND MODEST
INCOME AND LOWER INCOME
HOUSEHOLDS CAN'T USE BECAUSE
A MUM WHO'S 37 TRYING TO USE
HER CHILD TAX DEDUCTIONS
CAN'T USE THEM.
A MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY
RARELY GETS TO USE ITS
RRSP DEDUCTIONS.
SO I'M GOING TO TURN
THOSE INTO GRANTS.
THAT CHANGES WHO GETS THE TAX
BREAKS AND HOW THEY'RE GIVEN.
AND IT GIVES 90 PERCENT OF
ONTARIO FAMILIES SOMETHING
BETWEEN A 300 AND
1,000 DOLLARS TAX BREAK.

Steve says WHAT DOES THAT DO
TO THE DEFICIT?

Glen says NOTHING.
BECAUSE IT CHANGES THAT.
WE HAVE 20 BILLION DOLLARS IN
DEDUCTIONS RIGHT NOW.
AND I WANT TO GO AFTER THOSE
BECAUSE I THINK WE CAN'T
SUSTAIN THEM.
SOME OF THEM DON'T MAKE SENSE.
SOME OF THEM ARE PERVERSE
SUBSIDIES THAT WE'RE JUST
SUBSIDIZING
POLLUTION AND WASTE.
AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN
LOOKED AT IN A LONG TIME.
SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN
AROUND FOR 30 YEARS.
SO I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY
5-6 BILLION DOLLARS THAT CAN COME
OUT OF THAT 20 BILLION DOLLARS COST
LINE IN OUR BUDGET EVERY YEAR.

Steve asks ARE THERE ANY TAXES
YOU WOULD RAISE?

Glen says NO.
CAN'T.

Steve asks NONE?
ZERO?

Glen says SEE THIS IS THE THING.
YOU CAN RAISE SOME TAXES
AND YOU CAN LOSE REVENUE.
I MEAN, WE JUST HAD THAT
DISCUSSION WITH ANDREA HORWATH
IN THE LAST BUDGET.
WE RAISED THE TAXES ON
HIGH NET WORTH INDIVIDUALS
BY 2 PERCENT.
GREAT RETAIL POLITICS, RIGHT?
EXCEPT THOSE PEOPLE JUST
RELOCATE THEIR REVENUE
TO ALBERTA OR B.C.

An information panel appears on the left side of the screen. It reads “Glen Murray. Mayor of Winnipeg (1998-2004). Ran federally as a Liberal candidate in Charleswood-St. James, MB (2004). Former co-chair, Canadians for Equal Marriage; founding member, Canadian AIDS Society.”

Glen continues SO THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE WE
COULD LOSE REVENUE THERE.
I THINK A LIKELIHOOD.
SO YOU CAN RAISE TAXES
AND LOSE REVENUE.
I MENTIONED THE MILL RATE
WHEN I WAS MAYOR OF WINNIPEG,
CAME DOWN BY 11 PERCENT.
OUR TAX REVENUES WENT UP.
SO WHAT I'M PROPOSING ARE SOME
TAX CUTS THAT WILL REDUCE THE
TAX BURDEN ON PEOPLE WHO ARE
INVESTING IN SMALL GROWTH
BUSINESSES BUT WILL ACTUALLY
ADD ABOUT 3.5 BILLION DOLLARS
IN REVENUE.

Steve says I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE
WORLD I LIVE IN NOW, WHERE
CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS IN
THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
IN THE UNITED STATES JUST
VOTED FOR A TAX INCREASE.
ADMITTEDLY, ONLY ON A SMALL
PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION.
BUT GLEN MURRAY, SMALL L AND
BIG L LIBERAL IN TORONTO,
DISAGREES WITH RAISING TAXES
EVEN ON THE HIGHEST INCOME
EARNING PEOPLE
IN THIS PROVINCE.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH
THIS PICTURE?

Glen says I DIDN'T SAY I
DISAGREED WITH IT.
WHAT I SAID WAS YOU'VE GOT
TO BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU DO IT
BECAUSE THERE'S NO POINT, I
MEAN IN A VALUE PRINCIPLE,
ETHICALLY, WE'D ALL SAY, IN
HARD TIMES, WEALTHIER PEOPLE
SHOULD PAY A LITTLE MORE.
BUT IF YOU KNOW BECAUSE I
BELIEVE IN MATH, I LIKE MATH,
IF THE MATH TELLS YOU YOU'RE
ACTUALLY GOING TO END UP WITH
NET LESS REVENUE, THEN
YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT.
IF THE TAX ON CAPITAL GAINS IN
ALBERTA IS HALF OF WHAT IT IS
HERE, AND YOUR GROWTH
COMPANIES ARE ONLY GETTING
50 CENTS OF EVERY DOLLAR THEY
NEED TO STAY HERE TO CREATE
JOBS TO GROW THEIR COMPANIES,
THEY CAN'T GET THE INVESTMENT
CAPITAL, THEY'LL GO OTHER
PLACES, YOU BETTER ADJUST
THE TAX SYSTEM.
BECAUSE SOMETIMES, AS I FOUND
IN WINNIPEG, YOU CAN CUT
TAXES AND RAISE REVENUE.
I AM A LIBERAL.
I BELIEVE IN ACTIVIST
GOVERNMENT THAT SHOULD LIVE
LIGHTLY IN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND
POCKETS, AND TAX MEASURES
SHOULD REDUCE THE TAX BURDEN
AND BUILD THE TAX BASE.

Steve says SO MIKE HARRIS WAS RIGHT.
YOU CAN CUT TAXES AND REALIZE
MORE REVENUE DOING SO.

Glen says EXCEPT MIKE HARRIS, TIM HUDAK,
AND STEPHEN HARPER HAVE
CREATED A REMARKABLE PROBLEM.
AT THE SAME TIME OUR GROWTH
COMPANIES CAN'T GET THE
TAX REVENUE THEY NEED.
WE HAVE AN AMOUNT OF MONEY
EQUIVALENT TO ALMOST ONE-THIRD
OF THE CANADIAN ECONOMY, IN
WHAT MARK CARNEY CALLS, AND
JIM FLAHERTY EVEN
CALLS DEAD CAPITAL.
THAT'S THE RESULT OF
CONSERVATIVE TAX POLICY.

Steve says BUT LET ME GO AT THIS AGAIN.
YOU THINK YOU CAN CUT TAXES
AND REALIZE MORE REVENUE
IF IT'S DONE INTELLIGENTLY.

Glen says IF IT'S DONE BASED IN A
VERY NEW ECONOMY THAT'S
INNOVATION-BASED.
IF YOU CAN CHANGE THE TAX
SYSTEM TO TURN THE TAP ON
FOR HIGH-RISK-TOLERANT
INVESTMENT CAPITAL.
NOT SCARED CAPITAL THAT STAYS
IN THE BANK, BUT CAPITAL THAT
CAN FACE THE RISK OF THE HIGH
BURN RATE OF HIGH GROWTH
INNOVATION COMPANIES.
THAT'S THE KIND OF
CAPITAL YOU NEED.
THAT'S WHAT'S GROWING IN
TEXAS AND CALIFORNIA
AND MASSACHUSETTS.
AND THOSE COMPANIES
WILL RELOCATE TO THOSE
JURISDICTIONS IF WE CAN'T
CREATE A TAX SYSTEM THAT
REWARDS THAT.
THOSE 5 PERCENT OF THE
COMPANIES ARE CREATING ALMOST
50 PERCENT OF OUR JOBS,
ACCORDING TO INDUSTRY CANADA.
SO THIS ISN'T
ABOUT THE BUSINESS.
THIS IS ABOUT ONE OUT OF EVERY
TWO JOBS IN ONTARIO REALLY
DEPENDING ON OUR
ABILITY TO DO THAT.
AND THAT'S A VERY
LIBERAL IDEA, I THINK.

Steve says OKAY.
LET'S SPEND A BIT OF TIME HERE
ON WHAT I THINK IS THE ONE
IDEA YOU'VE PUT FORWARD THAT
REALLY DISTINGUISHES YOU FROM
ALL OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES.
AND THAT IS NO MONEY DOWN
TUITION FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO
POST SECONDARY EDUCATION.
ON THE FACE OF IT,
HOW WOULD THAT WORK?

Glen says ON THE FACE OF IT, IT'S
A BIT OF A HYBRID MODEL.
IN THE U.K., AND
AUSTRALIA, THIS IS DONE.
YOU AND I WOULD
GO TO UNIVERSITY.
THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD
INCOME AFTER TAXES
IN ONTARIO IS 70,000 DOLLARS.
THAT MEANS YOU'VE GOT THREE
OR FOUR KIDS, 5000, 6000,
7,000 DOLLARS A YEAR FOR UNIVERSITY,
THAT'S PRETTY TOUGH.

An information panel appears on the left side of the screen. It reads “Glen Murray. President and CEO, Canadian Urban Institute (2007- 2010). Former chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy. Former Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities and of Research and Innovation.”

Glen continues AND IF YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR
THAT, THAT 19-YEAR-OLD WHO'S
WORKING AT STARBUCKS, AND THAT
FAMILY HAS TO COME UP WITH
THE MONEY, PRETTY HARD TODAY.
AND THEY ARE BECOMING IN DEBT.
SO YOU PAY FOR IT AT THE END,
ONCE YOU'VE GOT A GOOD JOB,
AND ONCE YOUR INCOME IS
AT A CERTAIN THRESHOLD.
THEN I WOULD LIKE TO
INTRODUCE SOMETHING THAT'S
BEEN DONE IN MANITOBA AND SOME
OF THE WESTERN PROVINCES,
WHICH IS TO ALLOW
TAX WRITE-OFFS.
IF YOU STAY IN ONTARIO,
YOU CAN WRITE A GOOD CHUNK OF
THAT OFF AGAINST YOUR INCOME
TAXES, AND YOUR EMPLOYER CAN
OFFER YOU A NON-TAXABLE
BENEFIT AND BUY
OUT YOUR TUITION.
SO I THINK THAT WILL REMOVE
THE BARRIERS FOR MOST MIDDLE
CLASS FAMILIES BECAUSE 70
PERCENT OF THOSE JOBS REQUIRE
UNIVERSITY, COLLEGE
EDUCATIONS.

Steve asks THAT PRESUMABLY WOULD DO
SOMETHING TO THE DEFICIT,
WOULD IT NOT?

Glen says NO, BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING
IT OVER ABOUT A FIVE, SIX,
SEVEN-YEAR PERIOD.
I DON'T EXPECT EVERY STUDENT
IS GOING TO WANT TO DO THAT.
AND WE HAVE ABOUT 325 MILLION
DOLLARS THAT IS BUDGETED EVERY YEAR
FOR AN 8 PERCENT TAX BREAK FOR
THAT ALREADY, WHICH I WOULD
END, AND THEN TRANSITION
THAT MONEY TO PAY FOR THE
TRANSITIONAL COSTS
INTO THIS NEW MODEL.

Steve says MY HUNCH IS, AND I DON'T KNOW
THIS FOR SURE -- AND YOU SOUND
LIKE YOU'VE GOT A COLD, SO
LET'S MAKE SURE WE GET SOME
MORE WATER FOR YOU HERE.

Glen says THANKS VERY MUCH.

Steve says MY HUNCH IS YOU
CAN'T DO THIS ALONE.
YOU ARE GOING TO NEED FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HELP TO DO THIS.
THEY HAVE TO PASS SOME LAW.
IT'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ON
YOUR OWN, IS THAT RIGHT?

Glen says A LOT OF THAT WE
CAN DO ON OUR OWN.
THE NON-TAXABLE BENEFITS, IT
WOULD BE MORE MEANINGFUL IF
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MATCHED
THE PROVINCIAL CHANGES TO THE
INCOME TAX, AND CORPORATE
TAX, SO YES, I WOULD.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S
PHILOSOPHICALLY UNCOMFORTABLE
FOR JIM FLAHERTY TO LOOK AT
EMPLOYERS BEING ABLE TO OFFER
NON-TAXABLE BENEFIT BY BUYING
OUT A STUDENT'S TUITION.
I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
MAY BE WITHIN HIS COMFORT LEVEL.

Steve says THE IRONY, IS, OF COURSE, WHEN
YOU ANNOUNCED FOR LIBERAL
LEADER, THE CANADIAN
FEDERATION OF STUDENTS
SHOWED UP AT YOUR ANNOUNCEMENT.
THEY WERE PROTESTING OUTSIDE
THE ANNOUNCEMENT SAYING THE
PROBLEM OF STUDENT DEBT AND
STUDENT TUITION WERE FAR TOO
HIGH, AND THAT YOUR PROPOSAL, IN
THEIR VIEW, DIDN'T HELP ENOUGH.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

Glen says THE CANADIAN FEDERATION OF
STUDENTS HAS BEEN SAYING THAT
ABOUT GOVERNMENTS
FOR 25 YEARS.

Steve says YES, THEY HAVE.

Glen continues SO I HAVE GREAT RESPECT
FOR THEIR CONSISTENCY.
BUT MANY OTHERS ARE
LOOKING AT THIS.
I THINK WHAT SOME PEOPLE FIRST
THOUGHT I WAS SUGGESTING WAS
WE WERE JUST GOING TO
INTRODUCE INCOME CONTINGENT
TUITION, WHICH IS WHAT
THE BRITISH MODEL WAS.
WHEN PEOPLE HAVE LOOKED AT IT,
THEY REALIZE IT'S SOMETHING
QUITE MUCH MORE SUBSTANTIAL
THAN THAT, AND I THINK MANY
HAVE BOUGHT ON TO IT.
BUT I RESPECT CRITICISM.
THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

Steve says OKAY.
LET'S GO TO ANOTHER SEGMENT OF
WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING HERE.
AND THAT IS IF I LOOK AT YOUR
WEBSITE, THE WORD
SMART
IS
ON YOUR WEBSITE ABOUT
848,000 TIMES.
YOU ARE REALLY PUTTING
YOURSELF FORWARD AS
THE 'SMART' CANDIDATE.
THE GUY WITH THE
IDEAS AND THE ANSWERS.
HOW IS THAT WORKING
FOR YOU SO FAR?

Glen says IT'S BEEN INTERESTING.
THE REASON WE'RE USING
SMART ISN'T IN THE WAY
THAT YOU MIGHT THINK.
WE'RE TRYING TO FIND -- WHEN
YOU TALK ABOUT PRODUCTIVITY
PEOPLE'S EYES GLAZE OVER.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INNOVATION
DRIVING PRODUCTIVITY AND NEW
SYSTEMS AND NEW TECHNOLOGY
TO OFFER GOVERNMENT SERVICES
LESS EXPENSIVELY, THAT DOESN'T
MEAN ANYTHING TO PEOPLE.
WE TRIED SMART.
IT'S WORKING.
I THINK IT'S BEEN INTERESTING
IN THE SENSE I THINK WE HAVE
CREATED A HUGE CONVERSATION
AROUND INNOVATION IN THE
LIBERAL PARTY.
AND THAT WAS ONE OF MY GOALS.
AND I THINK WE'RE
GETTING THERE.

Steve says BUT, AGAIN, PART OF THAT, AND
YOU BOAST ABOUT IT ON YOUR
WEBSITE, THAT WHEN YOU WERE
THE MINISTER OF...
NOW I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER
WHICH MINISTRY IT WAS.

Glen says RESEARCH AND INNOVATION.

Steve says YOU CUT A WHOLE BUNCH
OF AGENCIES, BOARDS AND
COMMISSIONS WITHIN
THAT MINISTRY.
YOU WERE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO
DO THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS,
THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS, BUT YOU
DID IT WITH A LOT FEWER ABCs,
AND IT WAS MORE EFFICIENT,
THEREFORE SMARTER.
IS THAT APPLICABLE ACROSS
THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT?

Glen says WELL, I MEAN, I THINK YOU HAVE
TO ASK YOURSELF WHY, YOU LOOK
AT ALL OF THE SERVICE ONTARIO
CENTRES, YOU LOOK AT DRIVERS'
LICENSES, HEALTH CARDS, WE
HAVE SECURITY ISSUES WITH THEM.
I MEAN, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE
YOU READ STORIES THEY FOUND
STACKS OF FILES IN BACK LANES,
AND PEOPLE'S INFORMATION
WAS COMPROMISED?
FOR SECURITY REASONS, FOR
EFFICIENCY, WE COULD HAVE
A DIGITAL CHIP.
IT WOULD BE OUR DRIVER'S
LICENSE, IT WOULD BE OUR
HEALTH CARD.
JAPAN IS ALMOST CREDIT CARD
LESS AND CASH LESS SOCIETY
RIGHT NOW.
I'D LIKE TO BRING THAT KIND OF
MODERN DIGITAL AGE TECHNOLOGY
TO WHAT IS AN
ANALOG GOVERNMENT.
WE WENT PAPERLESS
TWENTY YEARS AGO
IN MOST OF THE
MUNICIPALITIES.
YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL THE
CABINET MINISTERS, THEY HAVE
THREE 24-YEAR-OLDS CARRYING
SMALL BRIEFCASES THE SIZE OF
SMALL AUTOMOBILES BEHIND THE
MINISTERS FULL OF PAPER.
WE'RE AN ANALOG GOVERNMENT AND
WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE THOSE
EXPENSIVE SYSTEMS ANYMORE.

Steve says AND YOU'RE THE GUY TO TAKE US
INTO THE 21st CENTURY DIGITALLY.

Glen says DIGITALLY, I REALLY WANT
A PARADIGM SHIFT FROM A
GOVERNMENT THAT LOOKS AT
SOLVING ITS FINANCIAL PROBLEMS
BASED ON PURELY COST
MANAGEMENT, TO ONE ON
INNOVATION AND
RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

Steve says WE TALK MOSTLY POLICY HERE,
AND WE TALK A LITTLE BIT OF
POLITICS HERE.
SO WE ARE GOING TO TALK A
LITTLE BIT OF POLITICS NOW.
YOUR PARTY, AT THE MOMENT,
IS ONE SEAT AWAY FROM
A MAJORITY GOVERNMENT.
IF ONE LOOKS AT THE MAP OF
ONTARIO, AND ONE TRIES TO FIND
THAT ONE MORE SEAT THAT YOUR
PARTY COULD WIN, IT'S NOT IN
ANY OF THE CITIES PROBABLY OF
THIS PROVINCE, IT'S SOMEWHERE
EITHER IN THE SUBURBAN OR
EX-URBAN, OR DARE I SAY IT
RURAL PARTS OF ONTARIO.
AND I ASK MYSELF HOW IS A GUY
WHO IS THE FORMER MAYOR OF
WINNIPEG, THE FORMER CEO OF
THE CANADIAN URBAN INSTITUTE,
THE GUY WHO REPRESENTS THE
MOST DOWNTOWN TORONTO OF EVERY
RIDING, YOU KNOW, IN THIS
PROVINCE, HOW DO
YOU
BE THE
BRIDGE TO RURAL ONTARIO TO
FIND THAT ONE MORE SEAT?

Glen says WELL, A LOT OF REASONS BECAUSE
I THINK PEOPLE JUDGE US ON THE
CONTENT OF OUR CHARACTER, OUR
SKILLS AND WHAT WE'RE OFFERING.
I THINK SOME OF THE BEST
CHANCES FOR LIBERAL SEATS,
I THINK WE'RE NOT IN THE
POSITION WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
TEN OR 20 OR 30 NEW SEATS, I
THINK WE PROBABLY HAVE A GOOD
SHOT AT FIVE OR SIX MORE.
I THINK A GOOD NUMBER OF THOSE
WILL COME OUT OF THE NORTH.
IF YOU READ THE EDITORIALS
AND EVERYTHING FROM
TO
“THE NORTH BAY NUGGET,”
WHICH IS NOT A LOCAL PAPER THAT
GENERALLY EMBRACES LIBERALS,
YOU'LL SEE SOME PRETTY
IMPRESSIVE COMMENTARIES
AND EDITORIALS ON
THE NORTHERN PLAN.
THE IDEA OF REGIONAL
GOVERNANCE IN THE NORTH IS
SOMETHING THAT'S
REALLY CAUGHT FIRE.
IT'S GOT MOST OF THE MAYORS
AND COMMUNITY LEADERS PRETTY
EXCITED IN A POSITIVE WAY.
SO A LOT OF THE POLICIES
I AM PROPOSING REALLY ARE
RESONATING WITH PEOPLE.
AND YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER, A
LOT OF NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO,
IF YOU GO TO THE EAST SIDE
OF THE PROVINCE, YOU SEE
SENATORS, IN YOU'RE IN THE
SOUTH, YOU SEE LEAF FANS,
ONCE YOU GET PAST THE
FRENCH RIVER AND TURN LEFT,
YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF JET FANS.
I HAVE A FAIRLY GOOD REP
ON A FEW THINGS UP THERE.
I ALSO THINK THE
DECENTRALIZATION,
THE COMMUNITY ENERGY PLAN,
HAS CAUGHT REALLY A LOT OF
EXCITEMENT IN A LOT
OF RURAL COMMUNITIES.
AND THEY UNDERSTAND THAT I'M A
FUNDAMENTALLY A DECENTRALIST.
AND I THINK THAT'S
VERY ATTRACTIVE.
AND I THINK I CAN REALLY
BRING THE NEEDED SEATS ON
TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.

Steve says OKAY, THIS MAY NOT BE FAIR,
BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS.
THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE MOST
CAUCUS ENDORSEMENTS TEND TO
GET THE LION'S SHARE OF THE
ATTENTION, THE PUBLICITY,
AND THE PEOPLE SAYING
THEY'RE GOING TO WIN.
HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE CAUCUS
HAVE YOU GOT BACKING YOU?

Glen says ONE.

Steve says RIGHT.

Glen says I TOLD YOU I'D GIVE
YOU SHORT ANSWERS.

Steve says WHICH IS WHY NOT TOO MANY
PEOPLE AT THIS STAGE OF THE
GAME ARE SAYING, WOW,
LOOK AT ALL THE SUPPORT
GLEN MURRAY'S GOT.

Glen says YEAH.

Steve asks YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THAT?

Glen says AM I CONCERNED ABOUT IT?
OF COURSE.
I THINK WE'RE ALL
CONCERNED ABOUT IT.
WE'VE BEEN DOING
REALLY WELL.
I'M CERTAINLY NOT THE FRONT
RUNNER, BUT WE RUN A REALLY
SOLID CAMPAIGN.
I THINK WE'VE SURPRISED A LOT
OF PEOPLE WITH THE DEPTH AND
BREADTH OF OUR CAMPAIGN.
AND I THINK IF YOU'VE SEEN
THE ALL CANDIDATES MEETING,
IT'S RESONATING REALLY WELL,
OUR IDEAS ARE RESONATING
REALLY WELL.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER
BELIEVED THIS, AND I GUESS WE
ALL MIGHT GET TESTED WITH
THIS, IF YOU ARE REALLY
COMMITTED TO PUBLIC SERVICE,
IT'S NOT YOUR AMBITIONS OR
YOUR CAREER YOU PUT FIRST,
IT'S YOUR IDEAS, YOUR PARTY,
AND THE ACT OF
PUBLIC SERVICE.
SO ONLY ONE OF US IS GOING
TO BE THE NEXT PREMIER.
SO WE ALL, HOPEFULLY, WENT INTO
THIS WITH A BIT OF HUMILITY.
I KNOW MY CHANCES ARE BETTER
THAN SOME, NOT AS GOOD AS
OTHERS, BUT I JUST DIDN'T
GO IN THIS TO WIN.
I WENT IN THIS BECAUSE
OF THE THINGS WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.
WE HAVE A FINANCIAL SITUATION
WHICH I THINK AS PREMIER
I COULD SOLVE.
AS A CANDIDATE, I CAN BRING
EXCITING IDEAS FOR ONTARIANS
ON HOW WE CAN SOLVE THIS IN A
HEALTHY WAY THAT DOESN'T HURT
SERVICES AND MAKES OUR LIVES
BETTER AT THE SAME TIME.

Steve says I WENT TO A SPEECH THAT
KATHLEEN WYNNE GAVE THE OTHER
DAY AT THE ECONOMIC CLUB, AND
IN THE MIDDLE OF HER SPEECH,
IN WHICH SHE IS TRYING TO
ADVANCE HER CANDIDACY,
SHE MENTIONED YOU.
SHE MENTIONED SOME IDEAS
SHE LIKED OF YOURS THAT
SHE THOUGHT DESERVED
MORE ATTENTION.
QUESTION.
IS SHE SAYING THAT BECAUSE SHE
REALLY WANTS YOU TO COME TO
HER ON SUBSEQUENT BALLOTS?
OR DO YOU THINK SHE
REALLY MEANS IT?

Glen says I THINK SHE REALLY MEANS IT.
ONE OF THE THINGS I RESPECT
ABOUT KATHLEEN, AND I THINK ALL
MY COLLEAGUES, IS SHE'S A PERSON
OF EXTRAORDINARY INTEGRITY.
ANYONE WHO KNOWS HER, WE ALL
HAVE OUR VULNERABILITIES --

Steve says WE'LL TALK ABOUT
YOURS IN A SECOND.

Glen says NO ONE'S EVER CHALLENGED
KATHLEEN'S INTEGRITY BECAUSE
IT IS EXTRAORDINARY.
SANDRA JOKED THE OTHER DAY I
SHOULD BE THE CHIEF POLICY
PLANNER FOR THE PARTY.
YOU KNOW, HARINDER AND I HAVE
HAD A VERY CONSISTENT POLICY
CONVERSATION GOING ON NOW FOR
THREE OR FOUR DEBATES AROUND
DEBT AND DEFICIT MANAGEMENT.
WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE.
SOME OF US ARE ACTUALLY
COLLABORATING ON POLICY
IDEAS TOGETHER.
IT'S BEEN A FRIENDLY -- IT'S
BEEN THE MOST FRIENDLY AND
CONSTRUCTIVE LEADERSHIP
RACE I'VE EVER SEEN.

Steve says ME, TOO.
I AGREE.
LET ME FINISH UP
ON THIS ONE.
I'M ASKING EVERYBODY THESE
KINDS OF QUESTIONS, AND THEN I
LIKE TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN WITH
WHAT I'M HEARING OUT THERE.
AND GLEN MURRAY, HERE IS
WHAT I'M HEARING OUT THERE.
I HEAR YOU'RE THE
SMARTEST GUY IN THE RACE.
I HEAR YOU'VE GOT
NEAT POLICY IDEAS.
I HEAR YOU'RE A
FANTASTIC SPEAKER.
YOU CAN GIVE AN HOUR-LONG
SPEECH WITHOUT A SINGLE NOTE
IN FRONT OF YOU.
YOU KNOW YOUR BRIEF.
I HEAR YOU'RE
INCAPABLE OF LISTENING.
I HEAR YOU'RE THE WORST
LISTENER OUT THERE
OUT OF ALL THE PEOPLE
RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
IS THAT TRUE?

Glen says I DON'T THINK SO.
I CERTAINLY DO TALK TOO MUCH.

Steve says ALTHOUGH, FUNNILY ENOUGH, NOT
TODAY DURING THIS INTERVIEW.
BUT LISTENING HAS BEEN A
PROBLEM FOR YOU, HASN'T IT?

Glen says I'M NOT SURE WHERE
THAT COMES FROM.
THERE ARE TIMES IN THE LAST
YEAR WHEN, I'LL BE QUITE CANDID
WITH YOU, I'VE BEEN A BIT
FRUSTRATED AT THE CABINET
TABLE BECAUSE SOME OF THE
DECISIONS HAVE BEEN ONES THAT
SOME OF US HAVE, FOR A
LONG TIME, ARGUED AGAINST.
AND THE TOUGH THING ABOUT
BEING A MEMBER OF A TEAM,
WHEN YOU LOSE, YOU HAVE
TO JUST ZIP YOUR MOUTH
AND CARRY ON AND SUPPORT IT.
IF YOU GO INTO MY
CONSTITUENTS, REALLY
SERIOUSLY, I CONVENE MEETINGS
ALMOST EVERY MONTH IN
NEIGHBOURHOODS AND I DO
NOTHING BUT LISTEN TO PEOPLE
FOR TWO HOURS.
AND I GET 55
PERCENT OF THE VOTE.
AND IF YOU WENT KNOCKING ON
DOORS WITH ME, THEY'D TELL YOU
THEY'VE NEVER HAD AN MPP --

Steve says YOU GOT MORE VOTES THAN
ANYBODY IN THE CITY LAST TIME.

Glen says JUST ABOUT.
MY CONSTITUENTS, THEY'D TELL
YOU, I COME TO THOSE MEETINGS, I
SIT AT TABLES, I DO NOTHING BUT
LISTEN TO THEM FOR TWO HOURS.

Steve says SO WHERE DOES THIS REPUTATION
COME FROM THAT YOU'RE A GUY
WHO TALKS TOO MUCH AND
LISTENS TOO LITTLE?

Glen says WELL, TALKS TOO MUCH, I
ACCEPT, AND THAT'S MY
COMMITMENT NOT TO
DO THAT ANYMORE.
I THINK THERE'S SOME PEOPLE --
I TEND NOT TO TRY AND JUDGE
OTHER PEOPLE IN
THAT KIND OF WAY.
BUT I THINK SOMETIMES WITH
A BIT OF HUMILITY HERE,
I'M SURE PEOPLE CAN MAKE
THE CASE FOR THAT.
BUT I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF
PARLIAMENTARY ASSISTANTS.
SIT DOWN WITH THEM.
ONE OF THEM IS
SUPPORTING ME, KEVIN.
REZA MORIDI'S SUPPORTING
MY FRIEND KATHLEEN.
I THINK HE'D TELL YOU I'M A
PRETTY DARN GOOD LISTENER.

Steve says OKAY.
WELL, I'VE ENJOYED
LISTENING TO YOU ANYWAY.
AND AS I WILL SAY TO
ALL THE CANDIDATES,
GOOD LUCK ON THE 26th.

Glen says THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Steve says THAT'S GLEN MURRAY.
LEADERSHIP CANDIDATE FOR
THE ONTARIO LIBERAL PARTY.

Watch: Glen Murray: No Longer Ontario's Next Premier?